How can life come from non-life? Is it like soup, just add water? Water and energy? Energy is good, right? It isn't entirely destructive. I mean I do get some pretty gnarly sunburns if I'm at the beach too long. However, it's plausible that with the right combination of water, chemicals and energy, that dead, inanimate matter can turn into something living. Right? Oh and by the way.. Where did matter come from in the first place? Is it eternal?
@SDSk8eR777 Your first question is answered by the evolution of nucleotides to DNA to single celled micro-organisms. It is not like soup at all. Water is part of the mixture, but it's more complicated than that. But you need certain conditions that we can't recreate at the moment. And matter is one of those enigmas, that I, mself, don't have an answer to, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
Theists look at the products of human "design" and see them as complex, mechanistic and orderly. Then they (fallaciously) conclude that natural things which appear complex and orderly must also be intelligently designed. Thus they imbue forces in universe at large with a great many human attributes culminating into a superhuman---God. It's a most egotistical and arrogant characterization of the universe.
if god is a complex being/entity if it exists then who designed him? They cant state all things were designed without also stating where did the designer come from. Perhaps man designed god
Like this vid. I have sent you a PM on Philip Pullman's 'Mulefa.' Fictional animals who adapted to use seed pods as wheels. From his amazing children's story "His Dark Materials" Best trilogy I ever read to my boys when young.
I loved your fractal analogy BD. I been saying for years, that chaos theory shows us how complex things can and do have simple rules; that complexity emerges from simple algorithms. Why not embryology?
Big problem we have here, is on science show, scientists are always using words like "miracle" and "designed" and "created", and they're always talking about evolution having goals and such..............Glad you mentioned fractals. If you learn about Chaos theory/fractals, you'll know that absurdly simple processes are responsible for all the different things we see in the universe, and no creator is needed one bit.
Couldn't one say that all things are designed because they define things as that which is designed? I am not for it but if this were a debate thats what i would argue i would try to define designed as to include everything that we can observe and say that if it doesnt "exist" it is because it had not been "designed". And as to your video the mechanism of how things are made is very separate issue to wither or not they are designed all life is designed just not by a conscious entity.
@BionicDance well that is an example of a type of design but i would argue that your definition is fallacious and highly restricted would you say the self adapted engineering done by Alberto Clarich and Jean-Antoine Desideri for aerodynamic systems to not be designed? It seems very well designed if you were to ask my opinion in fact it out performed "human" design tools in their creative problem solving. Just because you dont use "Designed" when it isnt "deliberate" doesnt mean its not designed.
@bobbysnobby But religious people love to USE the word "designed" to IMPLY intent. If we were to point out that humans are "designed" to survive in certain environments, they'll say, "See? Humans were intended, by an independent mind like god's, to live in certain places and to thrive. This PROVES there'z a god!"
There HAS to be a way to explicitly distinguish between something that was intentionally, deliberately designed, and something that evolved naturally. Some term for that difference.
@BionicDance We are designed to live in certain environments how people interpret that truth shouldn't matter and we cannot say a god didn't design us to live in a particular environment . There is no way to distinguish between something that is designed and something that evolved because there is no distinction that which has evolved is by definition designed through trial and error, mass births and deaths and selective survival to fit the requirements set by nature.
@bobbysnobby Of COURSE there is a distinction; the distinction is whether or not the design was DELIBERATE, or whether it evolved naturally because all those who couldn't adapt DIED, and the ones who lived reproduced and passed on the adaptation. That's an important distinction, and our ability--or not--to detect that difference is irrelevant to it BEING a difference.
Spanky here thinks we were designed by a god SOLELY BECAUSE HE CAN'T SEE HOW IT COULD BE OTHERWISE. That's just DUMB.
@BionicDance Viagra was discovered by a failed hair regrowth product yet i would still argue that it was designed i doubt the fact that it was a failed prior design that led to its invention somehow disqualifies it from being Designed... hence just because it wasn't deliberate doesn't mean it isnt designed. Your argument is a fallacy of final consequence that the ends super seed the means. What evidence do you have that it was not designed by a god? None they are both positions of conjecture.
@bobbysnobby The people making the claim that something DID happen or WAS caused by something are the ones who have the burden of proof. Either show a god DID do it, or admit you're full of shit.
And my claim is NOT that a god DIDN'T do it, my claim is that the people saying one DID are talking out of their asses.
@BionicDance so your moving the goal post it went from natural things aren't designed to well maybe they are but if they were i would need proof of their designer. I believe what your hung up on is a couple of things and first many Christians are more reasonable than young earth creationists that's low hanging fruit. 1 God could have designed everything to self design. 2 You rely on empiricism which is just one modality of thinking. Which makes sense as a child of the western culture.
@bobbysnobby Okay, you're not listening. I am NOT shifting the goal posts. I said that things don't LOOK designed to me, and that even if they DID, looking designed and actually BEING designed are different things.
Christians make supernatural claims WITHOUT BACKING THEM UP. I don't care WHAT kind of christian they are; either present evidence or admit you're full of shit. One or the other.
@BionicDance But im telling you your impressions are incorrect for i can construct a very suitable definition for what it means to be designed that would include organic life. We have examples from industry and laboratory of aerodynamic systems Self designing through the same processes as natural selection there doesnt need to be a entity Foreseeing it all to be designed. Back to evidence "seeing is believing" Vs "If i hadn't believed it i would not have seen it" Sapir-Worf anyone?
@BionicDance Hardly my point is that designer being a person or being with consciousness is not required for objects to be designed, that Empiricism is just one modality of experience, that evidence is inapplicable to the Supernatural by definition, that tools used in the scientific arena are often inapplicable to arguments of philosophy. Its important to know the difference between believing that your mother loves you and proving to others of it, something you seem not to acknowledge.
@bobbysnobby I'm not acknowledging it BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING IRRELEVANT. That point has NOTHING to do with this video, and if THAT'S what you've been trying to get across, you've been WASTING MY FUCKING TIME.
Im not going to speak on either side, but even though this is worded well; I feel as if you need to look up a few things about design in nature. And comparing things man make to what nature is is a really good starter for observing the two when it comes to design. Look at how limited we are in our designs and how we hard we have to try to...you know what....nevermind.
Yes you are right. Purpose.....nature has purpose. You have to excuse me, I have Aspergers and some things just require a little explaination before I understand them correctly.
2 - Wrong. And you should probably explain exactly WHICH terms you disagree with, rather than just saying, "Wrong, wrong, wrong," otherwise I have no reason to believe you AT ALL.
@1boringlife 1. Why does it matter if she's male or female? Obviously this was intended as an insult on your part. She is obviously female.
2. Again, another insult, which "term" does it seem like she doesn't know anything about?
3. Freedom of speech, to show how silly the bible really is, I can think of a number of reasons why any atheistwould read the bible. Hell, reading the bible helped me become an atheist in the first place.
Designers usually strive to create simple, elegant forms. Natural life is unnecessesarily complicated, complex, quirky, often just good enough for its environment, sometimes vulnerable.
Sometimes we recognize elegance in nature, and in trying to emulate it we find that this perceived elegance is a byproduct of symmetrical growth, streamlining, speed etc. And: we never try to emulate the insane complexity of natural biochemistry; on the contrary: we try to simplify it.
The more I watch these videos, the more it seems like you guys say random bs and all the atheists agree because the "points" are made by an atheist. You aren't any better for not believing in God, your arguments aren't even smart most of the time.
I don't really understand the video : are you saying lifeforms don't look designed because they don't look like things designed by humans?
@KorionDotNet No, I'm saying that claims that living things look designed are baseless because the standard for how to distinguish a designed object from one that was NOT designed is more than just unclear, it's avoided ENTIRELY. And on the rare occasions when it is defined AT ALL, it's the loosest, least critical or objective observation EVER.
@KorionDotNet Lets say there are other designers, besides humans, who design things we would not recognize as designed. Lets even say that these designs, to us, look like biological growth. Lets even say that there is some powerful being that is doing the designing, so powerful that it can control natural forces. This designer would have to be, at least in part, in that world. This designer now has the very same mark as us for having been designed. Who designed that designer? Infinite regression
That's similar to one of my arguments against design. Which goes like this.
In order for us to be able to tell whether or not something is designed, we have to already have criteria for that determination. That criteria happens to be whether or not we made something. So saying that natural things are designed, removed that criteria, leaving no way to differentiate. If you can't differentiate, than you invalidate your premise of life being designed.
We were created by an all powerful cosmic Hippo named Harry. Our purpose is to design a intergalactic back scratcher for our creator. When this is done he will uncreate everything and go back to swimming in the mud-hole.
And if life WAS designed, the engineer was the most incompetent doughhead who ever existed. Our eyes are wired backwards people! What kind of idiot runs the transmission cable THROUGH the reactive surface? And don't get me started on the digestive tract, reproductive, pulmonary or excretory systems....
If artificial things are designed, and natural things are designed. And everything is either natural or artificial, then what is the fucking point of the concept of design!?
This is one of the most retarded arguments athiests can possibly make. Intelligence creates items- any items, and yes that includes virii etc... The simulations we run already using narrow AI do not follow a script so it is likely a superior intelligence simply has a much larger and more intricate script to allow for more than narrow AI- humans. Since we are the most intelligent lifeform and we are improving intel then this observation suggest intel begats intel.
@miragezero Not exclusively, it doesn't. There is PLENTY of evidence that life ORIGINATES from non-life without any interferences whatsoever from an intelligence.
@BionicDance No there is plenty of evidnce to show that successions of events within the universe resulted in life and intelligence, not that the playing field was not created. It is blatently obvious that our conscious efforts to improve intelligence are going ot increase intel far faster than the universe has produced so far and then will be better able to increase intelligence by being more intelligent to the point to where our "The Sims" is quite likely a real human level intellect.
@BionicDance I don't need to, assuming that the universe came from nothing when it is obvious that the resolution of our sims is goign to reach the point of this reality is a mystical belief. God is generally considered a superintellect and we are going to make one. It is more likely that we are not the first or only universe to do so and that this is a sim of some sort. simulation dash argument dot com.
@Muljinn I'll break it down for you again... we simulate, we will simulate intelligence that will become more intelligent. This being will be able to simulate the resolution of this reality as well as the lesser intellects within it similar to the game "the sims". Therefore it is likely that this is a sim of some sort and if it isn't it may as well be.
@miragezero Uh huh. To borrow a line from Mr. Hitchens, that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. You've provided none. Feel free to rejoin the conversation when you get over yourself.
@Muljinn When I get over MYself?! You have absolutely no evidence that this universe erupted from nothing since nothing has never been observed. The universe is a factory that produces intelligence much like a factory that has produced a roller skate. Just because the factory doesn't make intelligence spontaneously appear does not mean it is not a factory. Now go replace factory with simulation. Plus it takes only simple observation to observe advances in technology/intelligence.
@miragezero Sure pal. Whatever you've been smoking, you should consider changing brands, it seems to be affecting your brain.
Oh, and by the way, the universe ISN'T a factory. Factories are made things assembled by sapient species such as ourselves. Unless of course you're playing a game of "Words mean whatever I want them to mean" in which case, you're not worth talking to any further.
@miragezero and for the cherry on top - the very toppermost most intel thing that ever was or ever will be in existence would HAVE to have been designed then? That's where you could cap it off with the clincher, and say "of course!" - it couldnt have occurred by itself! But only when you get to the very most complicated thing ever - you claim there is no possible way for us to think that it too was designed, and you want us to see the logic in that. It's not. It's faith.
@RevSpike i.e. one who claims that the absolutely most complex thing (that created everything else) could not have been created, only is a logical indicator that even lesser complex things may also have not been created. That make sense now?
@RevSpike We are intelligent and we arrange our environment to to produce complex tools (which really are extensions of our intelligence, albeit a different manner) to simulate a vast array of problems. A simple simulation may result in a complex output. To suggest that it is more logical to believe that this universe came from nothing (a literal absense of anything whatsoever) when no one has actually ever observed "nothing" is illogical.
@RevSpike Additionally it has never been observed that something occurs spontaneously. Athiests espouse this often. Everything happens as a result of something else occuring even the eruption and exiting of elementary particles into this realm, and yet atheists believe that the initial event was without cause. That is a belief that is contradicts observation and also additonally is not supported as the only possibility with the capabilities of the coming singularity/superintelligent simulation.
@miragezero Additionally it has never been observed that something occurs spontaneously, except the thing that is more complex that made everything that was and that will be. Thiests espouse this often.
And yet theists believe that god was without cause. That is a belief that contradicts observation.
But then again, people tout the virtues of "empirical evidence", which falls flat when you consider if all sheep you ever saw were white, you may conclude that all sheep are white.
@RevSpike Except if all the sheep you ever saw a were white you could assume that until proven otherwise. An exclusively empircal or logical out look is always subject to gleaning more information. There is information not available to lesser intellects because they do not have the toolset that we do. Their information ends with what nature gave them. Ours extends to include tools (senses) that increase the pool of information. When we increase intellect it increases the possible info. Outofroom
@RevSpike Just to be clear you are now assuming that there is superintelligence and this is a sim. This is a layered concept; it is likely there are realms that only a superinteligence is capable of fully understanding just as we cannot explain spacetime to our pets. There are mathmatical models of a multiverse and also infinite time loops, etc. Perhaps the superint consumed all matter in a previous universe and sims through the multiverse or destroyed itself in a manner to produce this one..
@geeca85 Point, but in the natural world "true" symmetry (i.e. symmetrical to a tight tolerance) is largely only found in the inorganic world, crystals and such. Also, there are several body plans both extant & extinct that are asymmetrical in form (i.e. certain types of flat fish, worms etc).
@rbl777 I already HAVE a word of god. It's "dammit".Goes perfectly well with "god", I think...like, right after it.
And I'm not likely to add you pal; I'm halfway to blocking you for how you introduced yourself...and now you want to send me a sermon? I REALLY don't think so.
@BionicDance ok even if u wont add me. the main thing is: people who wrote Torah, used the words of OUR world to describe qualities/laws watever of the UPPER world. but people think that Torah is about our world, and it sounds like bunch of tales that dont make any sense.
obviously bible was edited so many times for political reasons, like the crusader wars. it is NOT the word of god. it is a book written and edited by PEOPLE.
nor is Torah word of god. add me if u want to talk. again i apologize
@rbl777 What makes you think a god even exists AT ALL? Can you prove a god exists to at least the level that we can prove that, say, a car, ducks, or George Lucas all exist? And if not, why should ANYBODY think there is a god AT ALL, much less one who can have a "word"? *raised eyebrow*
@rbl777 1 - You can't prove that the giant purple space pumpkin of Alpha Draconis doesn't exist...doesn't mean we SHOULD believe in it. Give me reasons TO believe in god.
2 - Then why should we even SUSPECT god exists AT ALL?
There is no point of life but what we make for ourselves. What makes you think life HAS a point at all?
@BionicDance wow thats sad. your life is pointless? wat can be sadder
i never said god is giant purple space pumpkin of Alpha Draconis , thats wat christians say
but seriuosly i almost died of depression coz i thought life was pointless. like i dont give a fuck about nothing: celebrities movies electronics wtf is the point of all of that im so fucking bored.
and ur happily telling me that life is pointless? rofl
@rbl777 No, my life isn't pointless, you idiot; I said life has the meaning WE GIVE IT. I have plenty of purpose in my life...just purpose I made up. That's not sad...that's FREEDOM.
If you can't handle that, then YOU'RE the one who is living a sad life, kiddo.
@rbl777 My goal in life is to have as much fun as possible while hurting the fewest people as possible.
So what? That has nothing to do with ANYTHING. You're still not proving that god exists.
So here's the deal: I'm tired of dancing around with you and I'm tired of you avoiding the question...so either try to prove that a god exists in your next reply to me OR BE BLOCKED.
however you just proved my point that human are egoists - you live for pleasure.
but even that is miserable coz you/we suffer 99% of time, and get pleasure 1% of time. that life is unfair? pointless? where is the logic? and yet nothing will fulfill you in this world
oh if you are so kind to read my last comment , do yourself a favour and watch "perceiving reality" video here on youtube. maybe it'll open your eyes. its not a video about bible. good bye
@rbl777 why does there have to be a point in life? you make up your own reasons as you go, that's the beauty of it. If you think there's a concise reason, ask the 100s of billions of people who have lived before us, they seem to have just rotted away and become trees, dirt and maggots, just like everything else.
@rbl777 Its not a pointless life, its a realistic life and much more fulfilling life and interesting. A life without uneccessary fantasy. The world is fascinating as it is without having to apply fantasy to it (religion, Gods, racism, etc). BTW, who's 'measuring' howmuch meaning your life has? I'm a good person and have a point to my life, its to become educated and learn about this universe, and i'm an architect. I just don't think I'm going anywhere after it or meeting the dead when I die.
@rbl777 you said "Life without a point is worthless" what about people who's life's point is to kill others?
Just because you believe in something(God, afterlife,etc.), it doesn't make it true. do you understand that?
God doesn't exist, the afterlife doesn't either, nobody every walked on water or multipied fish. we rot and we become maggot shit. Now you can decide what to do with your life. I chose to be good and compassionate to others and help them rid themselves of oppressive religion.
@yourjefe I'm glad you said this. This life is the only chance we'll get to do something worthwhile. We are better off seeing life for what it is. Having a fairy tale ending in your head is harmful.
@BionicDance Oops, my bad on the reply button (I actually DO know better).
Don't take me wrong - I am well-versed in Darwinian evolution and do not believe in the slightest that it is.
I am only saying that if anything grown looks manufactured instead - they do (especially when you understand what they do and how they do it).
Yes, of course, one can draw the parallel with crystals (and I remember a biology teacher describing them as exactly that), but they somehow still look less grown than that
@steveb0503 But what I'm asking is this: on what criteria do you judge thing to be designed rather than purely natural? You're looking at a thing and you're saying, "That looks designed"...well, what makes you say that? How do you distinguish between 'designed' and 'natural'?
@BionicDance Because I have seen other things that look similar which I know WERE designed. I suppose that would be the criteria I am using - I realize that the concept is inherently flawed because I understand that the virus is NOT designed - but there it is.
@BionicDance That's only about 130 manga books (unless you go to 1/2 Price Books where it would only be about 157) or only .433333... of what it would take for me to go to college in Japan o.O Interesting =P
When talking about nature the appearance of design is purely in the eye of the beholder. The more you learn about the actual object the less designed it appears.
The main argument against making technology intelligent and mutational or evolve-able is will it then be our main competitors for dominant species. I am not saying that this type of technology is or is not plausible in theory. Neither do I want to discuss the moral (objective or otherwise) implications of doing that or designing babies through genome modification. I am for enlightenment by any means necessary. Don't call me Hitler, or Ishmael. I have found no fault with atheism as a theism. lol
Vestigal organs remains some of the best, and most intuitively compelling evidence for evolution. Does the ridiculous and pathetic hair on your body, ineffectively standing up via goosebumps when you get a chill, look designed???
Our brains take in more information than is necessary. One idea is that it discards information that doesn't match up with any other information, and the remainder are items that have been paired up.
In other words, our brains seek out patterns.
Someone on the radio show last night said the brain was "designed" that way (by accident) and the host corrected him. "The brain was not designed!"
But, but...what about the banana? It's perfectly designed for our peeling and, handling, and eating pleasure! What? It's a product of human-created artificial selection?
....huh? Coconut? Well...ummm...the coconut was obviously a creation of Satan!
@infideluxe hey don't dis the coconut dude, it's Dezyned(tm) for people with a drill or other sharp implement: just make a hole and pour in your vodka - voila, instant cocktail! XD
Interesting point....of course the "design" argument was destroyed centuries ago when geocentrism was debunked. But it didn't make a damned bit of difference to believers, they just kept slathering on the stupid. I think there is enough evidence out there that they know they're arguments are BS, but they're too heavily invested to give them up.
Intelligent Design and irreducible complexity do not disprove evolution or any other scientific theory, in fact until the mind numbing conclusions there is no mention of any fallacy. One can say the same for assuming there is no god merely because there is no evidence to support the physical existence of any higher power. Revelation narratives of all religions consist of one ore more humans hearing god and therefor gaining some sort of information. What information do you have about faith?
If a god ''designed'' everything then he needs to have his ass hauled into the office to explain why he purchased and installed way too much laryngeal nerve fibre than was needed. I'm guessing that he designed that system the day after he designed marijuana, liberty cap mushrooms and Carlsberg Special Brew which to be honest were some of his finer moments at the drawing board. :)
God looks like he was designed to create the universe, but it's claimed that he had no designer. Since God is one example of something that looks designed but wasn't designed, why can't the universe and life be other such examples, making God unnecessary?
@BionicDance I guess for them "it looks designed" is evidence enough to the point is becomes fact, whithout them wanting to answer that question you posed. They do not want a real answer. All they want is something to back up their deluded faith in a stupid book, a 5 year old could have written.
Things might "look" designed at some very super deep fundamental level of physics (one we have yet to even venture a theory at), but yah, this design argument is almost always used to claim there's some sky god putting life together like legos.
I would think that everything would be much more simplified.
I mean the creationists like to point out just how complex life is when we know that really it is over sophisticated and looks like something gone amok rather then carefully designed and controlled.
This is a far outcry from physics where everything is written in a simple mathematical language.
Even if someone is making a case for design for the universe and life its hard to say that an intelligent agent made both.
If everything is designed.. smallpox, salmonella, tetanus, tuberculosis.. wow, those are a hell of a friggin cool desing indeed well done God! Same as the human apendix, just what we needed, congratulations again God! The blobfish, the cocnut crab, the Aye-aye, they are so damn cute, what a design, wow, as cute as a Panda puppy, way to go God! not to mention a whole lot of "funny" genetic disorders such as Down syndrome, color blindnes.. what a funny fucker designer.. just sayin'... ;)
@DocStrange0123 I hear that all the time, and it's probably one of the best arguments against God. Why would the divine put an organ in us that would only have worked if belonged to say, a monkey?
@UberchargedCommunism there are other classics like: why God don't heal amputees etc.. the point is that it might look designed due to the complexity of something but that is just bullshit, the people who say "it's designed" always put very cute and nice and lovely things as example, but if everything is designed, everything is designed not just cute things... also another major fail with this design argument goes something like: the human eye is too complex therefore my bible is true, bullshit.
Good points Kate! Cdesign proponentsists typically make the following argument:
* Living organisms look designed
* Everything that looks designed is designed
* Therefore there is an intelligent designer
It should be obvious that the 2nd point is bogus, but you make a very convincing case that the 1st point is nonsense too. Thank you for providing yet another argument to counter IDiots!
You mean little fairies with tweezers don't make babies out of kits in the uterus!?
THEY LIED TO ME.
Herufaia 6 months ago
@Herufaia Least you didn't fall for the stork bullshit.
HimesInu 5 months ago
How can life come from non-life? Is it like soup, just add water? Water and energy? Energy is good, right? It isn't entirely destructive. I mean I do get some pretty gnarly sunburns if I'm at the beach too long. However, it's plausible that with the right combination of water, chemicals and energy, that dead, inanimate matter can turn into something living. Right? Oh and by the way.. Where did matter come from in the first place? Is it eternal?
SDSk8eR777 8 months ago
@SDSk8eR777 Your first question is answered by the evolution of nucleotides to DNA to single celled micro-organisms. It is not like soup at all. Water is part of the mixture, but it's more complicated than that. But you need certain conditions that we can't recreate at the moment. And matter is one of those enigmas, that I, mself, don't have an answer to, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
HimesInu 5 months ago
Theists look at the products of human "design" and see them as complex, mechanistic and orderly. Then they (fallaciously) conclude that natural things which appear complex and orderly must also be intelligently designed. Thus they imbue forces in universe at large with a great many human attributes culminating into a superhuman---God. It's a most egotistical and arrogant characterization of the universe.
socksumi 8 months ago
@socksumi Yup.
BionicDance 8 months ago
at least 80% of what starts after a cut is whipping your head to the right before you talk... not just in this video. Just saying.
Blueace12345 9 months ago
@Blueace12345 I'm aware.
BionicDance 9 months ago
if god is a complex being/entity if it exists then who designed him? They cant state all things were designed without also stating where did the designer come from. Perhaps man designed god
seonidh 11 months ago
Geez this is brilliant, I fucking love you!!! It's like you're beautifully stating what I'm not smart enough to. LOL......
jettajason24 1 year ago
Like this vid. I have sent you a PM on Philip Pullman's 'Mulefa.' Fictional animals who adapted to use seed pods as wheels. From his amazing children's story "His Dark Materials" Best trilogy I ever read to my boys when young.
CorporalNym 1 year ago
@CorporalNym Read those already, myself. :)
Shame the movie sucked so hard.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance Yep! The movie was absolutely dreadful. Keep up the great work!
CorporalNym 1 year ago
Great video!
YouStoleMyTube 1 year ago
I loved your fractal analogy BD. I been saying for years, that chaos theory shows us how complex things can and do have simple rules; that complexity emerges from simple algorithms. Why not embryology?
skepticoz 1 year ago
Big problem we have here, is on science show, scientists are always using words like "miracle" and "designed" and "created", and they're always talking about evolution having goals and such..............Glad you mentioned fractals. If you learn about Chaos theory/fractals, you'll know that absurdly simple processes are responsible for all the different things we see in the universe, and no creator is needed one bit.
216trixie 1 year ago
Simple. Just look for a designer(s). If you can find one/some, it's designed. If you can't, then it's not.
progrockcoffee 1 year ago
I like your Dr. Seuss shirt.
Quionic7 1 year ago
Couldn't one say that all things are designed because they define things as that which is designed? I am not for it but if this were a debate thats what i would argue i would try to define designed as to include everything that we can observe and say that if it doesnt "exist" it is because it had not been "designed". And as to your video the mechanism of how things are made is very separate issue to wither or not they are designed all life is designed just not by a conscious entity.
bobbysnobby 1 year ago
@bobbysnobby See, I shy away from the word "designed" if it ISN'T deliberate, because the word seems to IMPLY deliberate design.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance well that is an example of a type of design but i would argue that your definition is fallacious and highly restricted would you say the self adapted engineering done by Alberto Clarich and Jean-Antoine Desideri for aerodynamic systems to not be designed? It seems very well designed if you were to ask my opinion in fact it out performed "human" design tools in their creative problem solving. Just because you dont use "Designed" when it isnt "deliberate" doesnt mean its not designed.
bobbysnobby 1 year ago
@bobbysnobby But religious people love to USE the word "designed" to IMPLY intent. If we were to point out that humans are "designed" to survive in certain environments, they'll say, "See? Humans were intended, by an independent mind like god's, to live in certain places and to thrive. This PROVES there'z a god!"
There HAS to be a way to explicitly distinguish between something that was intentionally, deliberately designed, and something that evolved naturally. Some term for that difference.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance We are designed to live in certain environments how people interpret that truth shouldn't matter and we cannot say a god didn't design us to live in a particular environment . There is no way to distinguish between something that is designed and something that evolved because there is no distinction that which has evolved is by definition designed through trial and error, mass births and deaths and selective survival to fit the requirements set by nature.
bobbysnobby 1 year ago
@bobbysnobby Of COURSE there is a distinction; the distinction is whether or not the design was DELIBERATE, or whether it evolved naturally because all those who couldn't adapt DIED, and the ones who lived reproduced and passed on the adaptation. That's an important distinction, and our ability--or not--to detect that difference is irrelevant to it BEING a difference.
Spanky here thinks we were designed by a god SOLELY BECAUSE HE CAN'T SEE HOW IT COULD BE OTHERWISE. That's just DUMB.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance Viagra was discovered by a failed hair regrowth product yet i would still argue that it was designed i doubt the fact that it was a failed prior design that led to its invention somehow disqualifies it from being Designed... hence just because it wasn't deliberate doesn't mean it isnt designed. Your argument is a fallacy of final consequence that the ends super seed the means. What evidence do you have that it was not designed by a god? None they are both positions of conjecture.
bobbysnobby 1 year ago
@bobbysnobby The people making the claim that something DID happen or WAS caused by something are the ones who have the burden of proof. Either show a god DID do it, or admit you're full of shit.
And my claim is NOT that a god DIDN'T do it, my claim is that the people saying one DID are talking out of their asses.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance so your moving the goal post it went from natural things aren't designed to well maybe they are but if they were i would need proof of their designer. I believe what your hung up on is a couple of things and first many Christians are more reasonable than young earth creationists that's low hanging fruit. 1 God could have designed everything to self design. 2 You rely on empiricism which is just one modality of thinking. Which makes sense as a child of the western culture.
bobbysnobby 1 year ago
@bobbysnobby Okay, you're not listening. I am NOT shifting the goal posts. I said that things don't LOOK designed to me, and that even if they DID, looking designed and actually BEING designed are different things.
Christians make supernatural claims WITHOUT BACKING THEM UP. I don't care WHAT kind of christian they are; either present evidence or admit you're full of shit. One or the other.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance But im telling you your impressions are incorrect for i can construct a very suitable definition for what it means to be designed that would include organic life. We have examples from industry and laboratory of aerodynamic systems Self designing through the same processes as natural selection there doesnt need to be a entity Foreseeing it all to be designed. Back to evidence "seeing is believing" Vs "If i hadn't believed it i would not have seen it" Sapir-Worf anyone?
bobbysnobby 1 year ago
@bobbysnobby *rolls eyes* But that is NOT what the religious are claiming has happened here. Now YOU'RE shifting the goalposts.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance Hardly my point is that designer being a person or being with consciousness is not required for objects to be designed, that Empiricism is just one modality of experience, that evidence is inapplicable to the Supernatural by definition, that tools used in the scientific arena are often inapplicable to arguments of philosophy. Its important to know the difference between believing that your mother loves you and proving to others of it, something you seem not to acknowledge.
bobbysnobby 1 year ago
@bobbysnobby I'm not acknowledging it BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING IRRELEVANT. That point has NOTHING to do with this video, and if THAT'S what you've been trying to get across, you've been WASTING MY FUCKING TIME.
*rolls eyes*
BionicDance 1 year ago
Bionic's hairdo looks designed.
;)
SinnFein4ever 1 year ago
we never designed anything that can reproduce itself. But even if we did that in robots, it would still not compare to a biological life form.
emancoy 1 year ago
Im not going to speak on either side, but even though this is worded well; I feel as if you need to look up a few things about design in nature. And comparing things man make to what nature is is a really good starter for observing the two when it comes to design. Look at how limited we are in our designs and how we hard we have to try to...you know what....nevermind.
josheewah07 1 year ago
you are so cool.
AirForceGirl05 1 year ago 6
@AirForceGirl05 Yes. Yes, I am. ;)
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance you must be designed.
InvalidMemberAccount 1 year ago 3
Saying that something that looks designed must have a designer is... well, to be frank, that's a sophism.
TheGoodColonel 1 year ago
Life was not designed ok ...but then who designed Gaddafi hmm? God... Checkmate lol.
sortdane 1 year ago
Dramatic turn at 0:46
adam3251 1 year ago
Comment removed
adam3251 1 year ago
Oh wait... that's NOT how you make babies?
whoops.
amandarandom89 1 year ago
It seems that the CreaTrolls are restless this morning =)
v v v v
jimrbsn 1 year ago
@jimrbsn Aye. Dunnit just. :P
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance
Everything is designed by Evolution.....Evolution is the natural designer.
SuperNightowl55 1 year ago
@SuperNightowl55 I prefer not to use the word 'design'; it implies intent.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance
Good point.....
SuperNightowl55 1 year ago
@BionicDance
Does Evolution have intent?
SuperNightowl55 1 year ago
@SuperNightowl55 How can it? Evolution is not directed by a mind.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance
Yes you are right. Purpose.....nature has purpose. You have to excuse me, I have Aspergers and some things just require a little explaination before I understand them correctly.
SuperNightowl55 1 year ago
@SuperNightowl55 survival.
darthpaul123 1 year ago
1. i cant tell if you have boobs. so ill assume your a male (your voice is not too distinctive)
2. why dont u open up a physics book and start bashing at the terms u know nothing about? thats exactly wat ur doing....
3. get a life? if you already dont like religion, why go into reading bible to all of youtube??
1boringlife 1 year ago
@1boringlife 1 - Wrong.
2 - Wrong. And you should probably explain exactly WHICH terms you disagree with, rather than just saying, "Wrong, wrong, wrong," otherwise I have no reason to believe you AT ALL.
3 - To give it it's fair shot. It failed.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@1boringlife 1. Why does it matter if she's male or female? Obviously this was intended as an insult on your part. She is obviously female.
2. Again, another insult, which "term" does it seem like she doesn't know anything about?
3. Freedom of speech, to show how silly the bible really is, I can think of a number of reasons why any atheistwould read the bible. Hell, reading the bible helped me become an atheist in the first place.
Mglosk 1 year ago
Well said Bionicdance!
timtheloner 1 year ago
thank you for your videos BD
SuperMrgabriel 1 year ago
Designers usually strive to create simple, elegant forms. Natural life is unnecessesarily complicated, complex, quirky, often just good enough for its environment, sometimes vulnerable.
Sometimes we recognize elegance in nature, and in trying to emulate it we find that this perceived elegance is a byproduct of symmetrical growth, streamlining, speed etc. And: we never try to emulate the insane complexity of natural biochemistry; on the contrary: we try to simplify it.
virumoz 1 year ago
The more I watch these videos, the more it seems like you guys say random bs and all the atheists agree because the "points" are made by an atheist. You aren't any better for not believing in God, your arguments aren't even smart most of the time.
I don't really understand the video : are you saying lifeforms don't look designed because they don't look like things designed by humans?
KorionDotNet 1 year ago
@KorionDotNet No, I'm saying that claims that living things look designed are baseless because the standard for how to distinguish a designed object from one that was NOT designed is more than just unclear, it's avoided ENTIRELY. And on the rare occasions when it is defined AT ALL, it's the loosest, least critical or objective observation EVER.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@KorionDotNet Lets say there are other designers, besides humans, who design things we would not recognize as designed. Lets even say that these designs, to us, look like biological growth. Lets even say that there is some powerful being that is doing the designing, so powerful that it can control natural forces. This designer would have to be, at least in part, in that world. This designer now has the very same mark as us for having been designed. Who designed that designer? Infinite regression
savageecho 1 year ago
That's similar to one of my arguments against design. Which goes like this.
In order for us to be able to tell whether or not something is designed, we have to already have criteria for that determination. That criteria happens to be whether or not we made something. So saying that natural things are designed, removed that criteria, leaving no way to differentiate. If you can't differentiate, than you invalidate your premise of life being designed.
sonnygll 1 year ago
@sonnygll That...kind of WAS my point. :)
BionicDance 1 year ago
We were created by an all powerful cosmic Hippo named Harry. Our purpose is to design a intergalactic back scratcher for our creator. When this is done he will uncreate everything and go back to swimming in the mud-hole.
teerav707 1 year ago
And if life WAS designed, the engineer was the most incompetent doughhead who ever existed. Our eyes are wired backwards people! What kind of idiot runs the transmission cable THROUGH the reactive surface? And don't get me started on the digestive tract, reproductive, pulmonary or excretory systems....
Muljinn 1 year ago
If artificial things are designed, and natural things are designed. And everything is either natural or artificial, then what is the fucking point of the concept of design!?
MacabreManifesto 1 year ago
This is one of the most retarded arguments athiests can possibly make. Intelligence creates items- any items, and yes that includes virii etc... The simulations we run already using narrow AI do not follow a script so it is likely a superior intelligence simply has a much larger and more intricate script to allow for more than narrow AI- humans. Since we are the most intelligent lifeform and we are improving intel then this observation suggest intel begats intel.
miragezero 1 year ago
@miragezero Not exclusively, it doesn't. There is PLENTY of evidence that life ORIGINATES from non-life without any interferences whatsoever from an intelligence.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance No there is plenty of evidnce to show that successions of events within the universe resulted in life and intelligence, not that the playing field was not created. It is blatently obvious that our conscious efforts to improve intelligence are going ot increase intel far faster than the universe has produced so far and then will be better able to increase intelligence by being more intelligent to the point to where our "The Sims" is quite likely a real human level intellect.
miragezero 1 year ago
@miragezero But you have NOTHING to show that it WAS created.
BionicDance 1 year ago 3
@BionicDance I don't need to, assuming that the universe came from nothing when it is obvious that the resolution of our sims is goign to reach the point of this reality is a mystical belief. God is generally considered a superintellect and we are going to make one. It is more likely that we are not the first or only universe to do so and that this is a sim of some sort. simulation dash argument dot com.
miragezero 1 year ago
@miragezero
Failed. Life is not designed. It evolves.
geffel 1 year ago
@geffel Simulations are designed. The output evolves. Win.
miragezero 1 year ago
@miragezero There exists no evidence that this is a simulation...
Muljinn 1 year ago
@Muljinn I'll break it down for you again... we simulate, we will simulate intelligence that will become more intelligent. This being will be able to simulate the resolution of this reality as well as the lesser intellects within it similar to the game "the sims". Therefore it is likely that this is a sim of some sort and if it isn't it may as well be.
miragezero 1 year ago
@miragezero Uh huh. To borrow a line from Mr. Hitchens, that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. You've provided none. Feel free to rejoin the conversation when you get over yourself.
Muljinn 1 year ago
@Muljinn When I get over MYself?! You have absolutely no evidence that this universe erupted from nothing since nothing has never been observed. The universe is a factory that produces intelligence much like a factory that has produced a roller skate. Just because the factory doesn't make intelligence spontaneously appear does not mean it is not a factory. Now go replace factory with simulation. Plus it takes only simple observation to observe advances in technology/intelligence.
miragezero 1 year ago
@miragezero Sure pal. Whatever you've been smoking, you should consider changing brands, it seems to be affecting your brain.
Oh, and by the way, the universe ISN'T a factory. Factories are made things assembled by sapient species such as ourselves. Unless of course you're playing a game of "Words mean whatever I want them to mean" in which case, you're not worth talking to any further.
Muljinn 1 year ago
@Muljinn If the universe isn't a factory then how does it have a product or products?
miragezero 1 year ago
@miragezero and for the cherry on top - the very toppermost most intel thing that ever was or ever will be in existence would HAVE to have been designed then? That's where you could cap it off with the clincher, and say "of course!" - it couldnt have occurred by itself! But only when you get to the very most complicated thing ever - you claim there is no possible way for us to think that it too was designed, and you want us to see the logic in that. It's not. It's faith.
RevSpike 1 year ago
@RevSpike i.e. one who claims that the absolutely most complex thing (that created everything else) could not have been created, only is a logical indicator that even lesser complex things may also have not been created. That make sense now?
RevSpike 1 year ago
@RevSpike We are intelligent and we arrange our environment to to produce complex tools (which really are extensions of our intelligence, albeit a different manner) to simulate a vast array of problems. A simple simulation may result in a complex output. To suggest that it is more logical to believe that this universe came from nothing (a literal absense of anything whatsoever) when no one has actually ever observed "nothing" is illogical.
miragezero 1 year ago
@RevSpike Additionally it has never been observed that something occurs spontaneously. Athiests espouse this often. Everything happens as a result of something else occuring even the eruption and exiting of elementary particles into this realm, and yet atheists believe that the initial event was without cause. That is a belief that is contradicts observation and also additonally is not supported as the only possibility with the capabilities of the coming singularity/superintelligent simulation.
miragezero 1 year ago
@miragezero Additionally it has never been observed that something occurs spontaneously, except the thing that is more complex that made everything that was and that will be. Thiests espouse this often.
And yet theists believe that god was without cause. That is a belief that contradicts observation.
But then again, people tout the virtues of "empirical evidence", which falls flat when you consider if all sheep you ever saw were white, you may conclude that all sheep are white.
Singularity?
RevSpike 1 year ago
@RevSpike Except if all the sheep you ever saw a were white you could assume that until proven otherwise. An exclusively empircal or logical out look is always subject to gleaning more information. There is information not available to lesser intellects because they do not have the toolset that we do. Their information ends with what nature gave them. Ours extends to include tools (senses) that increase the pool of information. When we increase intellect it increases the possible info. Outofroom
miragezero 1 year ago
@RevSpike Just to be clear you are now assuming that there is superintelligence and this is a sim. This is a layered concept; it is likely there are realms that only a superinteligence is capable of fully understanding just as we cannot explain spacetime to our pets. There are mathmatical models of a multiverse and also infinite time loops, etc. Perhaps the superint consumed all matter in a previous universe and sims through the multiverse or destroyed itself in a manner to produce this one..
miragezero 1 year ago
@bionicdance you look both designed and fine tuned for lesbianic sex ;) keep up the good work...love your videos as always
RandomNonsence 1 year ago
@RandomNonsence I think that "lesbianic" is my new favorite word.
bkstaubert 1 year ago
Show someone twenty carrots. One has been genetically modified, the others haven't.
Ask the person if they can tell which of the carrots was the "designed" one, just by looking at them. Pretty safe bet that the answer would be no.
If they can't recognise design in something as simple as a carrot, why should anyone believe that they can recognise it in any other organism?
TychoCelchu 1 year ago
A slight dissent, if nature can be symmetrical it will.
geeca85 1 year ago
@geeca85 Point, but in the natural world "true" symmetry (i.e. symmetrical to a tight tolerance) is largely only found in the inorganic world, crystals and such. Also, there are several body plans both extant & extinct that are asymmetrical in form (i.e. certain types of flat fish, worms etc).
Muljinn 1 year ago
Comment removed
rbl777 1 year ago
@rbl777 Yes.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance okay im sorry i didn't want to insult. ill pm u soon
rbl777 1 year ago
@rbl777 Well, it was HARDLY an appropriate question.
Especially since the answer is readily apparent to anybody who takes the time to actually look at my channel.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance k u have to add me, coz i cant send u a message. and no im not gonna teach you a word of god, just my 5 cents, i promise
rbl777 1 year ago
@rbl777 I already HAVE a word of god. It's "dammit".Goes perfectly well with "god", I think...like, right after it.
And I'm not likely to add you pal; I'm halfway to blocking you for how you introduced yourself...and now you want to send me a sermon? I REALLY don't think so.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance ok even if u wont add me. the main thing is: people who wrote Torah, used the words of OUR world to describe qualities/laws watever of the UPPER world. but people think that Torah is about our world, and it sounds like bunch of tales that dont make any sense.
obviously bible was edited so many times for political reasons, like the crusader wars. it is NOT the word of god. it is a book written and edited by PEOPLE.
nor is Torah word of god. add me if u want to talk. again i apologize
rbl777 1 year ago
@rbl777 What makes you think a god even exists AT ALL? Can you prove a god exists to at least the level that we can prove that, say, a car, ducks, or George Lucas all exist? And if not, why should ANYBODY think there is a god AT ALL, much less one who can have a "word"? *raised eyebrow*
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance 1. you cant prove god doesnt exist
2. you cant prove god in this world, coz its totally opposite of who we ARE - egoists.
no u prove me that im wrong
and wats the point of life btw? very curious
rbl777 1 year ago
@rbl777 1 - You can't prove that the giant purple space pumpkin of Alpha Draconis doesn't exist...doesn't mean we SHOULD believe in it. Give me reasons TO believe in god.
2 - Then why should we even SUSPECT god exists AT ALL?
There is no point of life but what we make for ourselves. What makes you think life HAS a point at all?
BionicDance 1 year ago 2
@BionicDance wow thats sad. your life is pointless? wat can be sadder
i never said god is giant purple space pumpkin of Alpha Draconis , thats wat christians say
but seriuosly i almost died of depression coz i thought life was pointless. like i dont give a fuck about nothing: celebrities movies electronics wtf is the point of all of that im so fucking bored.
and ur happily telling me that life is pointless? rofl
i guess i was wrong, you got balls
rbl777 1 year ago
@rbl777 No, my life isn't pointless, you idiot; I said life has the meaning WE GIVE IT. I have plenty of purpose in my life...just purpose I made up. That's not sad...that's FREEDOM.
If you can't handle that, then YOU'RE the one who is living a sad life, kiddo.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance lolll you choose a meaning for ur life? some floating temporary goals?
and then wat? what happens when you run out of goals?
rbl777 1 year ago
@rbl777 You make more or you give up and die.
Just because that possibility is unpalatable to you doesn't mean it's not TRUE.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance why do you make more goals? wat do u ultimately get for it? pleasure money fame? satisfaction? thats wat ur living for?
rbl777 1 year ago
@rbl777 My goal in life is to have as much fun as possible while hurting the fewest people as possible.
So what? That has nothing to do with ANYTHING. You're still not proving that god exists.
So here's the deal: I'm tired of dancing around with you and I'm tired of you avoiding the question...so either try to prove that a god exists in your next reply to me OR BE BLOCKED.
Your choice, but don't try my patience, pal.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance noone can prove god to you.
however you just proved my point that human are egoists - you live for pleasure.
but even that is miserable coz you/we suffer 99% of time, and get pleasure 1% of time. that life is unfair? pointless? where is the logic? and yet nothing will fulfill you in this world
oh if you are so kind to read my last comment , do yourself a favour and watch "perceiving reality" video here on youtube. maybe it'll open your eyes. its not a video about bible. good bye
rbl777 1 year ago
@rbl777 Yes. Goodbye.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@rbl777 why does there have to be a point in life? you make up your own reasons as you go, that's the beauty of it. If you think there's a concise reason, ask the 100s of billions of people who have lived before us, they seem to have just rotted away and become trees, dirt and maggots, just like everything else.
yourjefe 1 year ago
@yourjefe are you happy living a pointless life? i couldnt, if you can im happy for u
but i rather die instantly then live with no meaning.
rbl777 1 year ago
@rbl777 Its not a pointless life, its a realistic life and much more fulfilling life and interesting. A life without uneccessary fantasy. The world is fascinating as it is without having to apply fantasy to it (religion, Gods, racism, etc). BTW, who's 'measuring' howmuch meaning your life has? I'm a good person and have a point to my life, its to become educated and learn about this universe, and i'm an architect. I just don't think I'm going anywhere after it or meeting the dead when I die.
yourjefe 1 year ago
@yourjefe so everyone chooses his own point? wats the point in that?
you choose a point to become educated, then you die. wat was the point in your life? rofl
you guys wont come with an answer
coz if you knew wat the meaning of life was, people wouldnt be guessing or "making" their own "point"
you just dont got an answer....
rbl777 1 year ago
@rbl777 you said "Life without a point is worthless" what about people who's life's point is to kill others?
Just because you believe in something(God, afterlife,etc.), it doesn't make it true. do you understand that?
God doesn't exist, the afterlife doesn't either, nobody every walked on water or multipied fish. we rot and we become maggot shit. Now you can decide what to do with your life. I chose to be good and compassionate to others and help them rid themselves of oppressive religion.
yourjefe 1 year ago 5
@yourjefe I'm glad you said this. This life is the only chance we'll get to do something worthwhile. We are better off seeing life for what it is. Having a fairy tale ending in your head is harmful.
thereforeithought 1 year ago
@rbl777 You've been watchin' to much anime man! :)
FlamingDragonHeart 1 year ago
@FlamingDragonHeart only hentai bro
rbl777 1 year ago
I dunno, I've seen some pretty space-shuttle looking people. ;)
hgryphon 1 year ago
@hgryphon ...tail fins and wings? What, were you at a sci-fi con?
BionicDance 1 year ago
Same standards you used - it kinda looks more manufactured than grown.
steveb0503 1 year ago
@steveb0503 Again, BY WHAT STANDARD? What are the criteria you're using to make that determination?
And also...learn to use the "Reply" button, please.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance Oops, my bad on the reply button (I actually DO know better).
Don't take me wrong - I am well-versed in Darwinian evolution and do not believe in the slightest that it is.
I am only saying that if anything grown looks manufactured instead - they do (especially when you understand what they do and how they do it).
Yes, of course, one can draw the parallel with crystals (and I remember a biology teacher describing them as exactly that), but they somehow still look less grown than that
steveb0503 1 year ago
@steveb0503 But what I'm asking is this: on what criteria do you judge thing to be designed rather than purely natural? You're looking at a thing and you're saying, "That looks designed"...well, what makes you say that? How do you distinguish between 'designed' and 'natural'?
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance Because I have seen other things that look similar which I know WERE designed. I suppose that would be the criteria I am using - I realize that the concept is inherently flawed because I understand that the virus is NOT designed - but there it is.
steveb0503 1 year ago
your vid has officially become a homeschool presentation today, bd!thanks!
practicalmagic9 1 year ago
@practicalmagic9 Rockin'! :)
BionicDance 1 year ago
Ever seen a electron micrograph of a virus?
It kinda does look designed - just sayin'...
steveb0503 1 year ago
@steveb0503 By what standard?
BionicDance 1 year ago
Everything looks designed to me. (Of course much of it is very shitty design.) Evolution is the designer.
TheWiccanBitch 1 year ago
How could I make you come over here o.O
OukaKisa 1 year ago
@OukaKisa Money. :P
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance the amount =P (just in case: I's teasing, not stalking or w/e =) )
OukaKisa 1 year ago
@OukaKisa Thirteen thousand dollars.
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance That's only about 130 manga books (unless you go to 1/2 Price Books where it would only be about 157) or only .433333... of what it would take for me to go to college in Japan o.O Interesting =P
OukaKisa 1 year ago
@OukaKisa Then it's clearly a bargain. :D
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance Yep =D
OukaKisa 1 year ago
When talking about nature the appearance of design is purely in the eye of the beholder. The more you learn about the actual object the less designed it appears.
macnutz 1 year ago
@macnutz This is what I'm sayin'. :)
BionicDance 1 year ago
@BionicDance Ha. I know but it appears to need constant repetition for the slower ones. :)
macnutz 1 year ago
Ya, like snowflakes, being symmetric and perfect and beautiful, prove snowflake fairies are knitting them with magic needles.
AtheismTV 1 year ago
The main argument against making technology intelligent and mutational or evolve-able is will it then be our main competitors for dominant species. I am not saying that this type of technology is or is not plausible in theory. Neither do I want to discuss the moral (objective or otherwise) implications of doing that or designing babies through genome modification. I am for enlightenment by any means necessary. Don't call me Hitler, or Ishmael. I have found no fault with atheism as a theism. lol
yrrebyam666 1 year ago
Making a baby kind of involves glue...
Al1981X 1 year ago
Vestigal organs remains some of the best, and most intuitively compelling evidence for evolution. Does the ridiculous and pathetic hair on your body, ineffectively standing up via goosebumps when you get a chill, look designed???
GetMeThere1 1 year ago
Oh yea DNA isn't a blueprint, even though life follows it religiously (pun intended).
NetraAmorosi 1 year ago
Can your roller blades reproduce? If not then I think you are on to something. :-)
awatson945 1 year ago
Our brains take in more information than is necessary. One idea is that it discards information that doesn't match up with any other information, and the remainder are items that have been paired up.
In other words, our brains seek out patterns.
Someone on the radio show last night said the brain was "designed" that way (by accident) and the host corrected him. "The brain was not designed!"
TheOtherSide100 1 year ago
Where is the line between what looks designed, and what doesn't? That's purely subjective, so there is no real line, just the feelings of humans.
thereforeithought 1 year ago
@thereforeithought Guess I should have just said that. Nicely done.
yrrebyam666 1 year ago
But, but...what about the banana? It's perfectly designed for our peeling and, handling, and eating pleasure! What? It's a product of human-created artificial selection?
....huh? Coconut? Well...ummm...the coconut was obviously a creation of Satan!
infideluxe 1 year ago
@infideluxe hey don't dis the coconut dude, it's Dezyned(tm) for people with a drill or other sharp implement: just make a hole and pour in your vodka - voila, instant cocktail! XD
dromedaryspotter 1 year ago
Interesting point....of course the "design" argument was destroyed centuries ago when geocentrism was debunked. But it didn't make a damned bit of difference to believers, they just kept slathering on the stupid. I think there is enough evidence out there that they know they're arguments are BS, but they're too heavily invested to give them up.
rohanwotan2 1 year ago
Intelligent Design and irreducible complexity do not disprove evolution or any other scientific theory, in fact until the mind numbing conclusions there is no mention of any fallacy. One can say the same for assuming there is no god merely because there is no evidence to support the physical existence of any higher power. Revelation narratives of all religions consist of one ore more humans hearing god and therefor gaining some sort of information. What information do you have about faith?
yrrebyam666 1 year ago
If a god ''designed'' everything then he needs to have his ass hauled into the office to explain why he purchased and installed way too much laryngeal nerve fibre than was needed. I'm guessing that he designed that system the day after he designed marijuana, liberty cap mushrooms and Carlsberg Special Brew which to be honest were some of his finer moments at the drawing board. :)
Zed1967 1 year ago
love the shirt!
Spahrep 1 year ago
I dunno about you, but I planted one of those Rollerblade wheels for no reason and a tree came up three years ago.
And not to sound creepy or anything, but you're scaring me with your beauty and I'm afraid to tell my girlfriend that I'm subbed to you. lol
SCRulerShinoda 1 year ago
God looks like he was designed to create the universe, but it's claimed that he had no designer. Since God is one example of something that looks designed but wasn't designed, why can't the universe and life be other such examples, making God unnecessary?
Chuck1863 1 year ago 17
@Chuck1863 That is freakin brilliant.
TheDrpretorious 1 year ago
Cyborgs are the "missing link" between designed and natural.
RadarKat73080 1 year ago 5
@BionicDance I guess for them "it looks designed" is evidence enough to the point is becomes fact, whithout them wanting to answer that question you posed. They do not want a real answer. All they want is something to back up their deluded faith in a stupid book, a 5 year old could have written.
JungleHyena 1 year ago
Things might "look" designed at some very super deep fundamental level of physics (one we have yet to even venture a theory at), but yah, this design argument is almost always used to claim there's some sky god putting life together like legos.
Shisho2k 1 year ago
I would think that everything would be much more simplified.
I mean the creationists like to point out just how complex life is when we know that really it is over sophisticated and looks like something gone amok rather then carefully designed and controlled.
This is a far outcry from physics where everything is written in a simple mathematical language.
Even if someone is making a case for design for the universe and life its hard to say that an intelligent agent made both.
flammamancer 1 year ago
If everything is designed.. smallpox, salmonella, tetanus, tuberculosis.. wow, those are a hell of a friggin cool desing indeed well done God! Same as the human apendix, just what we needed, congratulations again God! The blobfish, the cocnut crab, the Aye-aye, they are so damn cute, what a design, wow, as cute as a Panda puppy, way to go God! not to mention a whole lot of "funny" genetic disorders such as Down syndrome, color blindnes.. what a funny fucker designer.. just sayin'... ;)
DocStrange0123 1 year ago 15
@DocStrange0123 I hear that all the time, and it's probably one of the best arguments against God. Why would the divine put an organ in us that would only have worked if belonged to say, a monkey?
UberchargedCommunism 1 year ago
@UberchargedCommunism there are other classics like: why God don't heal amputees etc.. the point is that it might look designed due to the complexity of something but that is just bullshit, the people who say "it's designed" always put very cute and nice and lovely things as example, but if everything is designed, everything is designed not just cute things... also another major fail with this design argument goes something like: the human eye is too complex therefore my bible is true, bullshit.
DocStrange0123 1 year ago
★★★★★
Katalyzt 1 year ago
Good points Kate! Cdesign proponentsists typically make the following argument:
* Living organisms look designed
* Everything that looks designed is designed
* Therefore there is an intelligent designer
It should be obvious that the 2nd point is bogus, but you make a very convincing case that the 1st point is nonsense too. Thank you for providing yet another argument to counter IDiots!
ConsciousAtoms 1 year ago