@azsuperman01 So yes we were bound to failure but that is because God gave us free will. But God does not want us to fail. Also when he says unending mercy he gives it to those who have repented for the wrong things they have done (sin) and is sticking with gravity wrong? No. And he sends you to hell for doing the wrong things you have done and not accepting jesus christ he has tried to save yo but you rejected him then you shall pay for your wrong doings...God Bless :)
You see all these three year olds that you love and care for. They are following someone who is leading them off of a cliff and telling them that they are not going to get hurt or die. Would it be cruel to warn them? They are putting their trust in either you or the one who is leading them to destruction. Consider that you are the one who is decieved here, and God wants to give you eternal life with him. Rom 6:16 (we serve one or the other)
wierd..you will sin weather a christian or not..Christ died so you might have forgiveness for your sins thats simple i don't understand what's so complecated bot that..Don't look to Christ for forgivness then don't be forgiven simple its up to you..Yes we are not perfect. And anything then perfection is not worthy of the kingdom so in Christ we are then made perfect in him so therefore enter into the kingdom cool aye
Bravo, you read the bible before to speak and that's very good
Knowing the bible you should have noticed that also what it's wrong or right changes from a page to another, that's because who ruled populations during centuries "adapetd" god and his messages to that specific time, war, sickness, culture, and so on.
Now of course after so much time that book is full of contraddictions, and it's a pain for priest to make it look logical.. adam, jesus, eve, unicorns, moses, giants .. myths? Facts?
val im confused you have faith in your god but you don't believe him when he says you can do greater works then i have. these are Jesus words why do you act like i have asked for the impossible. you also said science is gods handy work so why hide it why not tell the people about it so millions could be saved buy vaccines your god is funny he makes the world then kills 99% of the people then hides science from the people then never writes anything down when he comes to kill him self to him self.
here is one series that will show you some science. 14th foundational falsehood of creationism Pt 1.
or why do people laugh at creationists or maybe you should watch all of az superman01 vids or fighting atheist if you think im so of base. or the atheist experience watch them all if you want a real clear picture of science
noproof C'mon. I know you can do better than that. Challenging me to grow an arm back on a vet? Do I look like Jesus to you?? For the record, I've never changed water into wine either, although I occasionally enjoy a glass. You said something else that was assanine..."every thing you have is owed to science everything." You act as if I think science is a bad thing. I'm cool with science. It's simply Man's discovery of God's handiwork.
oh one more thing you say i am the narrow one in my view.s how could this be im not the one saying my way is the truth and the light and if you don't believe me your going to hell this is your view, and it is narrow one. i say no religion has proven anything no god grows back arms or legs never ever. but science has cured and saved more lives then any or all gods put together ie vaccines for small pox or new ways of farming to feed people. every thing you have is owed to science everything.
noproof Your arrogance amuses me. The fact that Christmas was originally the pagan Winter Solstice is old news to me. In fact, its probably common knowledge by now. This does not diminish Christmas at all for me. It was pagan then. It's Christian now. We jacked 'em for their holiday and we don't apologize for it. The Bible is a compilation of 66 books. 39 in the Old. 27 in the New. It was compiled at the Council of Nicea. God often works thru men to accomplish His will....
yep you stole all there myths and it still makes them myths lol funny christain believing in magic and talking animals incantaions mass killings of babys what a god god he is. he does nothing he saves no one what a wow factor he has.
here is a fact you might not know when the voting on which books could go in to your new testament they also voted if Jesus was god or not this was split down the middle each other calling the other heretic what a joke they even fought about this.
please prove me wrong do just one miracle grow an arm back on a vet fly into the clouds. turn a mentally handy capped person normal do some thing like that and then we can talk.. wow thanks for the number of books in the mythical book they still all equally fact shit told to you by people that new nothing of how the real world works and on top of this they thought god was coming in there life time again another lie amongst tons of lies. believe in talking animals and yes even unicorns.
...the compilation of the Bible is no different. Just as God used Moses to lead the Israelites out of Egypt, Gods used the hands of men to write down His Word to lead us out of darkness. The "it was written by man" argument doesn't work with me. God saw to it that the Bible was written. You should thank Him instead of hating.
hecdaca I have no idea why you're talking to me about the Israelites in Egypt. I never mentioned that in my previous posts. But since your claim is so ridiculous, I have to address it. Even if there was no physical evidence of the Israelites in Egypt, the account has been preserved in written word and oral tradition. Western scholars stupidly dismiss oral tradition which in most cases is MORE accurate than written word. The Chinese, African and S.American tribes know this.
So if you acknowledge oral tradicion as a legitimate, accurate and reliable source of knowledge and information then tell me wich one is the true religion for they all have their own conflicting stories, about myths, and miracles. Western scholars don't dismiss oral tradition anymore. they follow leads and try to verify them with evidence a term that religioius people dispise so much.
hec Anyways, the Passover would not have been celebrated for thousands of years in Israel was never in Egypt. Does it sound logical to you that a race or ethnicity would fabricate being slaves? A thousand years from now, a global catastrophe could hit us. Records are wiped out. And then someone like you will probably say, "We have no proof of slavery in America. It was all made up."
just so you know Christians kept killing after the crusades we also have the Salem witch hunt.how we killed the Indians because they were devil worshipers or we even have god fearing men owning slaves. and until about 80 years ago blacks couldn't even go to a white church and the pastors said nothing about this but yes now all is good with the Christians they haven't killed any one in the last 60 years. so you were right they are good now it just took them 1500 years to stop killing people lol
no books even of his time and on top of that the authors of the so called new testament are not even known and it say this in the i think the NIV version most people think it might have been written by them but it could have been written by someone who new them but that also is just a jump since you have no original text from the time. so what did Jesus say i and you don't really know you just believe what you read. what you have put down are not facts. just you narrow view of the world.
noproof My view of the world is narrow?? I'm a christian with muslim, jewish, agnostic, bhuddist, and atheist friends. Close friends. Can you claim that? I'm well aware that mine is not the only religion and I respect other people's views. Much better than you seem to do. You've been told that christians are narrow minded, so that is what you assumed about me. You were not correct. Also, I never said you were crazy. I said u foolishly lumped Christianity in with...
yes i have friends of all faiths this doesn't mean i agree with them and if you can prove author ship of the new testament you would be the only one.
as for the above comment about wearing the same clothing doesn't change the fact that as a christian you owe the spread of your faith to mass murder that's a fact and there is nothing more to say if this didn't happen your religion would have gone the way of all the other religions that are know myth.
...the atrocities committed by the medevial Church. If I wore the same style of clothes you wear, got a haircut similiar to yours, then committed murder....should you get the blame? Or should I? As far as the Bible goes [I don't read the NIV] most of it's authors are accounted for. Peopel were not stupid back then. They kept records. Information may have been lost in wars and such, but the Bible's origins are solid. I can prove that.
noproof You have some nerve calling anyone's view of the world,"narrow". You have little room to talk. I also realize that in your haste to hate on everything christian, you deem your opinions as fact. If you can show me what army the early christians used to turn the Roman Empire into the Holy Roman Empire, then I'll believe Christianity was spread by bloodshed. Did wars happen? Yes. But that was against the Muslims. And that was much, much later.
if you new your history you would know there was a civil war in Rome the Christians against the pagans as Rome was a pagan country the Christians were winning and Constantine to keep his country form ripping it self apart became a christian i believe on his death bed. then Constantin brought all the faction of Christianity together and told them that they need a coherent bible to go by and this is how the bible you have today came to be. the books were chosen by man and written by man silly
The early christians used the witness of their testimony. Not swords. They professed of Christ at risk to their own lives. Many christians were tortured and killed. This small cult of the Man from Nazerth grew because it offered hope. Not the edge of a sword.
Your memory of Christianity appears to stop at the Crusades, in which Jesus was hundreds of years removed.
hey by the way did you know why Christmas is on dec 25th because Rome was a pagan country and they had been worshiping mithra and that was Mithra day for celebration the wreaths were also from Mithra the Romans new they couldn't get rid of the holiday so the just changed it to when Christ was born lol your most celebrated holiday is really a holiday to a pagan god lol you have just been miss lead lack of info cause you to believe in the fair tales they have feed you since birth.
i love how you said i foolishly merged the corruption of the church and politics together i was stating a fact from history.
what can i expect from some one who believes he came from dirt donkey can talk and god killed him self so that he could then allow him self to forgive as there would be no other way ok what ever i guess i will just believe in gravity and thing of that nature but im the crazy one
Ya know,, maybe it's just me, but .. . put that way.
It looks like the Mental disorder they tie to the Superhero healers, who make patients sick to heal them, and then kill them if they turn on them. I know there is a name for that and I'm drawing a blank.
Kinda.... Seems like it's one long fucked up experiment.
your a smart guy, you have very complex views but you put them in a manner even a child couild understand. Religion is a fuckin joke, and jesus was most likely a homosexual anyway.
God has failed. I completely agree with you on trying to explain to ignorant theists that their god has failed miserably. If God's Plan is true, then he planned every murder, rape, pedophile, and any pain. You speak like coming from theist's point of view, and saying things like "God is omnipotent." That is very respectful coming from an atheist. Now if you will excuse me, I have innocent people to kill, and since God planned everything I do, and I have no free will, obviously, it's OKAY. :)
Amanda And what is your definition of failure? For the sake of argument, let's say there is a God. Have you ever considerered that maybe God didn't fail? Maybe His plans and your plans are not the same? If an army has no intentions of conquering city A, u can't call the lack of an invasion a "failure". For this moment in time, God has no plans for world peace in the time that you would have it be.He works on His time. Not ours.
No, I have not considered that God didn't fail, because I know God does not exist. I know there is no higher being than myself. And if an army has no intentions of conquering a city, and don't invade the city, they had no plan for success, either. So, I agree, you can't call it a failure, but nor can you call it a success. That last statement you made, made no sense.
Amanda You made so many mistakes in your response, that I don't know where to begin. Your words:"I know God does not exist. I know there is no higher being than myself." Correction: It's your OPINION that God does not exist. You don't KNOW anything that you can call a fact on this particular topic. In fact, the only way you could "know" there is no God, would mean that you are omnipotent. A god. Science has not disproved God. You were taught to believe a terrible lie.
Amanda If your age is correct on your profile, it really saddens me. I was 16 once, and like you, I thought I knew everything. Most teens are guilty of that. Your words, "there is no higher being than myself", indicates the same kind of closed mind that many atheists accuse believers of. As vast as the Universe is, it's highly unlikely that we are alone. Or that we are the highest in the Universe. You are too smart to have such a narrow, closed view of life.
Don't put me in a category of narrow-minded teenagers. I've done plenty of research. I wouldn't argue if I did not. The absence of any god is just something I feel very strongly for, just like you and your beliefs. It's a quality all humans share, the want to be right, and you need to realize this. For you to say I think of myself as omnipotent is extremely ignorant of you. The only way YOU could ever "know" there is a God, would make YOU all knowing, and omnipotent, as well, wouldn't it?
Also, has your "god" proven himself existent? Has he shown you himself? I can go to any hospital in the world, and see a dying child, and listen to them pray to God to not let them die, but your God lets them. If he has a Divine Plan, but at the same time he is omnipotent, couldn't he change a certain event in this child's set path to save them? It is YOUR opinion that God exists. You do NOT know, do you? You have faith in a supernatural explanation, you can't prove anything with that.
Amanda You've done research? Does that mean studying books on atheism and the failures of religion, to reinforce your predetermined opinion? God is not man, or a physical substance. You can't let lab test God. So of course there will be no obvious physical proof. But logic is on my side. Not the atheist's. It's a stretch to think that Man is the only sentient beings in the Universe. It takes a lot of faith to be an atheist. It's simply isn't logical.
Never have I once stated that I believe we are the only sentient beings in the universe. That would be incredibly ridiculous. Yes, I have done very much research. Research relevant to theism, not soley atheism, and the failures of religion. Explain the logic in God for me, please. I am honestly asking, that is not a sarcastic remark. Of course I am biased on this subject, but I know science is much more logical than any supernatural entity, I would like to know why you think that.
Sorry to butt in on this, but you comment made me stop and comment. NO logic is NOT on your side. To say it takes more faith to be an atheist just shows your level of intelligence. As you obviously do not even know the definition of "Faith"
So please, don't try to bring logic into this, as you HAVE AND WILL CONTINUE TO LOSE any debate you try and put forth on that basis.
quickett You say I will lose any debate on that basis, but here I am. I'm still standing. Think about how vast the Universe is. Microbiology, quasars, black holes, etc. These involve chemistry and equations that I can't even fathom. Astrophysists are still trying to figure out the heavens. The atheist view is that "if Man can't prove it, then it doesn't exist." I suppose DNA never existed before we discovered it? I stand by my previous statements.
John McCain is still standing, doesn't mean he didn't lose. I see that you completely ignored supplying the definition for "faith"
The default answer for all unknowns is not God. Period.
You speak about research, how can you research something that can't be studied? You CANNOT study God. You can only study what men have written about their belief of God.
quickett I'm not John McCain. And a person CAN study God. God wants us to study and obey Him. Therefore He provided us the material to do just that. God spoke to the prophets and personally saw to it that His word was preserved for the Ages. You're an atheist, so of course this will make no sense to you. When you're ready to expand your knowledge, instead of limiting it as atheism requires, let me know.
How exactly can you study God? Show me where I can see him. Show me where I can touch him. Show me where I can smell him. Show me where I can hear his voice. Not going to taste him, not that kind of guy.
You keep bringing faith into this(still waiting for your definition of Faith by the way), just because you believe what was written in a book, doesn't make it fact.
Who verified what the prophets claimed were Gods words were in fact Gods words?
How exactly does Atheism limit my knowledge? You need knowledge to be Atheist. Like I said before, don't try to debate based on logic because you will lose. Believing in God does not expand your knowledge, and it has not expanded one persons knowledge in history, quite the contrary. The belief in God, has set our society and humanity back as a whole.
It appears that we're at a stalemate. You're still waiting on my definition of faith, and I'm still waiting to [as you put it] "lose". I'll get to the faith part. I'm just letting you know that I don't need faith to point out the flaws in atheism. I can use logic alone and do that.
You illustrated perfectly why atheism limits knowledge with your words:
"Show me where I can see him. Show me where I can touch him. Show me where I can smell him. Show me where I can hear his voice...."
Your questions show that atheists cannot or will not, see beyond their 5 senses. You can blame this on the western mind set. In the East, even people who are not christians, [bhuddists, hindus, shaolin monks, etc] they know that human beings have at least 7 senses. Not 5. They call it Nirvana. The Native Americans called it the Great Spirit. They were in tune to the energies in the Earth and the heavens. Atheism says, "I don't see it, therfore it don't exist. That stifles learning
You said that you can use logic to point out the flaws, go ahead. We're waiting....
No, atheist know that if something is beyond the 5 senses it is supernatural. Anything supernatural cannot be verified, or reviewed. Therefore cannot be studied. Nobody in the East nor Native Anericans KNOWS that humans have 7 senses. they BELIEVE humans do. Using these as a reference means you are no longer waiting to lose, you just did.
What stifles learning is a system that declares anything that goes against the scriptures as heresy. Sound familiar? Ever heard of the inquisition, the crusades, witch hunts, Galileo?
And you try to say atheism stifles learning? How many people were put to death for scientific ideas that were proven to be correct?
That you could even entertain the idea that atheism results in a lower level of intelligence is astounding and downright shameful.
quickett Wow, you're an arrogant one, aren't you? "you are no longer waiting to lose, you just did. " Cute, funny, but wrong. Now sit back and let me show you how us real chriggaz get down. We're used to not being able to completely study the supernatural. But we do acknowledge it's there. Those who can't [atheists] either have a defiency of the numerous senses, or a fear of the unknown. A fear that results in denial, or hostility. You see....
...existence does NOT depend on Man to be validated. The atheist's position is that it does. That would make us gods, wouldn't it? The very things u don't believe in. 200 years ago, the atheist would have said,"I can't see it, touch it, smell it, taste it ,or hear it. Therefore DNA does not exist." You limit your scope of understanding the art and sciences of the universe. Religion does not. Faith pursues it.
You say I'm wrong, please quote something I said and refute it. Other than that you are just claiming that I'm wrong. You have no basis for any arguments you have besides blind faith.
"We acknowledge it's there." what kind of unintelligible babble is this? You know you can't study the supernatural, but by acknowledging it makes it exist?
It's like me asking my daughter whether Santa exists and she says YES! I ask her what proof does she have and her proof is other kids from her school who also say he exists so he must exist. Do you see where you fail with your sources? Arrogant, No. I am just stating the facts.
If you cant study the supernatural with the senses, how can people who can't study it have a deficiency in their senses? You make absolutely no sense. How does this translate into a fear of the unknown?
lol i was reading you argument with velayasha. Every single time you responded to them you proved them wrong. How the fuck they tought they won i dont understand. I gave up trying to talk to them anymore. It used to make me laugh when they spouted their fairytale crap, but not anymore. It just annoys me, i dont understand how people can be so stupid. Its the 21st century, its the age of knowledge. Dont they know how to use the internet to figure this stuff out?
bobby472 So because we have the internet, that is supposed to break the faith of christians, muslims and jews? Wishful thinking. The internet is a great tool, but it's not a "god disprover" as u would have it to be. And if atheism is so "smart" and religion is so "stupid", then why hasn't atheism taken hold like Christianity and Islam has? I'll tell you why: Atheism offers no answers, and no hope. God does.
the only reason religion was and is so big, is because people were stupid back then. Some how it grew big and infected so many. But if you used the INTERNET, you would see that religion is falling world wide, atheism is rising. As technology advances, religion falls. Christianity said that the world was flat, the earth was the center of the universe, dinosaurs and humans lived side by side. Technology disproves all "gods" created by man. sorry
bobby Your words: "the only reason religion was and is so big, is because people were stupid back then." So let me get this right...The Egyptians who gave us geometry and the pyramids were stupid? Why is that? Because they didn't have X-Boxes and I-Pods? If it weren't for those "stupid" people back then, we wouldn't have computers. We sim[ply built on the groundwork they had laid for us. You really should pick up a Bible sometime and read it. I can tell that you haven't.....
people had a lot less knowledge of how the natural laws worked and why so they were primitive to us and they filled in what they didn't know with mythical gods to explain shit this is a fact like the world was flat or the sun revolved around the earth you know shit like that was thought as fact or Zeus would throw lighting from the sky. by the way Zeus impregnated a human woman and Hercules was half god half man sound like another story that came after the Hercules myth?
....Christianity is a younger religion than the various pagan ones BUT paganism is not older than God Himself. It's not older than Creation. In the beginning of Creation, the prophecy of the Messiah was around. Every religion had a semblance of God's prophecy. Even human sacrifice was a twisted version of God demanding blood to cover away sins. Sound familiar?
They copied from ancient Jewish prophecies. Even in Genesis, it predicts of Jesus. The Greeks copied from us who serve Yaweh.
actuality it wasn't some how, all religions we have were spread by murder and death. convert or die sinner, most said fuck off at first then when they started burning people at the stake people were like ok i will convert and that is how it spread. this is straight history no refuting this,it was never by love they only spout that shit now that we have laws against killing people because they have an opposing religious view point but nice try Velayasha
oh and atheism does give answers, and hope. Religion gives false hope, and no answers what so ever. Atheism allowed you to have the computer you are using, the makeup you use. Your education (which im assuming you have), the car you drive, the longer life humans have. Because as "god" says, science is the work of the "devil" and you are supposed to NOT use it. But yet you do.......hmmmm thats odd. what else do you pick and choose out of the bible?
...read it. For example: You said that Christianity claimed that the world was flat and Eart was center of the Universe. I challenge u to find that in the Bible for me. It simply isn't there, Maybe a misguided christian said that, but Christianity did not.
no the church said that, and even after Galileo proved the sun didn't revolve around the earth the church mad him say he was wrong, and this fact was kept from the people for another i think 200 years maybe a 100 but either way the church said both these things and they also said Jesus was born of a virgin in both count were going off bull shit.
noproof You watch a bit too much Zeitgeist. Nothing you've said has disproved my point. That's because I tell the truth. I challenge you to find in the Bible for me that the world is flat. Or the Sun revolves around the Earth. Don't bother, because u won't find it. But I'm sure you'll continue to blame the Bible and Christianity for things it NEVER said. Corruption in the Church and Jesus' teachings are 2 different things. You foolishly merge the 2 of them into one.
i was correcting you on how you worded your point since no one said that it says that in the bible but it does infer that we are gods prize creation and everything was made around gods great creation this is were the church got this idea from.
noproof There's no doubt there was corruption in medevial Church. This is what happens when politics, power and religion merge. You get Crusades, witch burnings and Inquisitions. You think Christians don't know this?? You falsley blame Christianity. Did Jesus say to massacre people? Convert them by the sword? No! And you know that. I do not defend the Church. But I will defend Christianity when you tell falsehoods against it. As for your Herecules, half God myth, that's easy...
2. the spreed of Christianity and the mass amount of people that believe in this myth was a result of this this is a fact you own the survival of your religion to the mass murder.
3. no religion has spread through love this a fact end of story.
you claim that the church is good now well which version do you believe is the right version as there are 33000 different versions tell us o wise one which one should we follow and don't be vague pick one.
This guy still doesnt make sense. He confuses his thoughts of Rejecting God with " I cant fly ", even a kid could understand what the bible says. Sounds like my wacky uncle that thinks he is like Jesus, same thoughts and talking like my uncle.
You should only ask forgiveness for what you have done wrong,only you think your a superman who has never done anything wrong at all.Everybody has done something they knew was wrong,even you.the problem your not understanding is that in order to love God you have to be free to make a choice this is what that scripture means that we were bound to disobdience but then by Gods mercy we have the option to accept or reject regardless of our mistakes,his mercy and live or die according to our choice.
"his mercy and live or die according to our choice."
Mercy? He created us with the capability to sin knowing that we would and when we do in the OT stories we are punished with severe brutality. If he really wanted worshipers, why not just create them? Instead, he creates us and gives us the very charactersitics which he then decides to torture us for. Mercy? I don't think so. Its more like Wickednes
Oh yes make a tape recording that always tells you "your so great I love you,your just the best".Look just because you know that someone with free choice might choose to not accept you doesnt mean that he isnt willing to take the risk.You know I really wish there was enough space on these comments for eveything I have to say about it.Any court of law upon reviewing the evidence would reach a verdict of God is just and fair after all you live and clearly dont accept,is that not mercy?
"God is just and fair after all you live and clearly dont accept,is that not mercy?"
Not my kind of mercy, may be you condone your god for allowing the needless death and suffering of the defenseless in the world. Babies and toddlers starving to death. Murder of the innocent. Disease victims, leprosy, cancer. If hell is real, I will sit there, because this 'God' is evil. He could save these people. Instead hes content to watch them suffer and die. This is not worth worship.
The earth grows more than enough food to feed the worlds population,murderers do the killing.I don'thave a degree in biology so I wont go there,though I could.And finally it would indeed be curel if death were the end of life,but it's not so whats your point?If you want to go to hell God will honour your choice,but it isnt his will for you to go there,you said so yourself it's your decision.If God micromanaged everything then none of us would ever learn anything,or have any free will.
"The earth grows more than enough food to feed the worlds population,murderers do the killing."
'God' created the scenario, he knew what we would do to one another, yet, he didn't change it? He could of created us differently, but he choose not to.
end of life,but it's not so whats your point?
Suffering children with brain cancer, thats my point. Ever seen it? I have. The thought of someone imposing it, is sick. Nothing nice about it. second life or not.
sashajaw What makes you think that God owes you or Mankind something? You don't believe in Him. If God does help you, you're lucky. You fault God for kids with cancer. I pose the question, "Why should God save your children? Especially when half the world is shaking their fist towards believers and saying, "Where is your God?" The meek shall inherit the Earth. Not those who hate or "don't believe" in their Creator.
"Especially when half the world is shaking their fist towards believers and saying, "Where is your God?"
And for this we get millions of dead innocent children around the world. Death by disease, by violence, starvation. We get this because hes in a snit? Hes having a 2000 year mood swing? This is worth worship? He could stop this, but he just doesn't want to? Is that what your saying? Ever seen a 4 year old with brain cancer?
sasha I don't like this set up anymore than you do. And I'm a christian. But it is, what it is. This is the same God who sent The Flood and wiped out most of the earth's population. He also sent the Israelites into the land of Canaan to kill off the tribes who lived there and claim the land. Men, women and children. Personally, I think our generation has gotten off easy so far. Instead of hating on God, I choose to be on His side. And my faith is not based on fear. It's on gratitude.
"Any court of law upon reviewing the evidence would reach a verdict of God is just and fair"
Yup, just and fair that why we have children with missing limbs or severe deformities. Why does 'God' not heal these poor kids? Thats some divine plan you worship. He rewards decent people with suffering (Paraplegics) while evil people. (Saudi Royal family who enforce whipping of old women who have men in their house) with a life of luxury. Yah, nice justice.
hey sashajw1234 - maybe you should be asking God to explain himself to you... there ARE a lot of things that we, as believing Christians DON'T know and need to ask God to teach us... I do, however, honestly believe that God will reveal himself to the genuine enquirer - the person who is seeking truth. Mind you, those individuals are few and far between. Even many who THINK they are genuinely seeking aren't really... our wicked hearts deceive us all...
hey jbrooks 888:) Thanks for the comment. The only thing I don't get about montheistic scripture is how people draw mercy and kindness from it. Because it is clearly not mercifull or kind. All this energy we waist on the hope of paradise after death. I believe we should build heaven here and now. This life is the only life we know we all have. For many decent folks, its total misery. A truly loving god, would not allow this. It is simply why i can not accept montheism.
Just want to say that I, too, have wondered why life isn't more perfect for everyone on earth since God is so kind and merciful. But then as I think that I can't help but think that even when God is being kind and showing mercy, 99.9% of the time we don't even acknowledge it. But then as soon as something bad happens all all fists are being shaken at Him and all blame and hate is going toward God. (cont.)
I can't help but wonder "maybe if God was to receive some thanks and honor for the blessings that He gives us in life, maybe things would be a little better?"
Also, everytime in the Bible that God demonstrates judgment its not just a random "hmm I feel like killing someone" type of a thing at all. God is a just God (thank goodness). In the Bible you also find that any sort of judgment that God brings on a people it is usually preceded with a plea to repent, and if they repent, he relents.
Well i can't say that your wrong because i can't prove it. I used to volunteer part time at a childrens hospital. All I can say is, 'God' doesn't seem so just when a terminally ill kid stares at you and says, "Sasha, why does 'God' give me death? What did I do?" I got a lot of this, it's heart breaking. I also met an Atheist nurse who spent most of her life helping these kids. For her service, she goes to hell? I for 1, can't wrap my head around the idea that this deserves worship.
Wow, that must have been heartbreaking seeing and talking to those sick kids. I honestly don't know why He allows such innocent little children to suffer like that. I don't understand it either and I won't pretend like I have the answer. I do know that He is good though. I have seen kids healed from terminal illnesses, I have on the other hand seen kids not make it. BUT the times when they haven't made it some amazing and beautiful always happend as a result.
"some amazing and beautiful always happend as a result." Well, honestly, I hope your right. Curiously enough my friend. You sound quite like a friend of mine. She rejected her christian up bringing but still believes strongly in the idea of a 'God'. To her, all decent people will be accepted. Believers or not. Straight or not. If your a decent and honest person, your life will be rewarded. If I was to believe, that would be my type of God for sure. Not this montheistic monster:/
It's not impossible to please God - just humble yourself ask God, and He will show himself to you - and bless you with everything you need to do whatever he requires...
Weird how God only answers the prayers of the rich. Weird how he leaves those literally STARVING to death in Africa, praying for a bowl of rice, but gives you your new prada purse.
Some people I ask say that "God created us to have free will and give us the choice to worship him or not."
But if he knows what we're going to do and EXACTLY what we're thinking, then he made us to think a certain way and do certain things.
That's not exactly free will if he knows what we're going to do and he created us to not worship him, then expects us to worship him, despite what we were created to do in his 'master plan'.
God doesn't cure diseases. Our immune system does.
No,only the potential for good and evil so that you can make the choice.Yes he does know the outcome because he exists without time but it is you who gets to make the choice.God only expects people who want to worship him to do so,and if you dont then he has set aside a place where he is not just to honour your wishes.Thats an awful lot of special care for such small creatures as we.If I were you I would get informed enough to understand the choice I was making.
According to Christians, he created us in HIS IMAGE and he knew EXACTLY what we are thinking, what we're going to do, what we're going to think. He knows EVERYTHING about us and about everything and he knows what's going to happen all in his 'special plan for us'.
But ask yourselves this:
If he created us as he wants us to be, why did he create some of us to NOT worship him?
Sorry ran out of word count please read the following comment above...
Yes - but if He is real then who would want to defy him? But bside that, the Bible tells us God is righteous and Holy - everything He does is right - if we can't see it, then we need more information.
That's the problem with Christian theology. They always try to make it OUR fault. Hey, we're all finite beings, but this guy's all-knowing, all-powerful, and omnipresent. If this guy really wants us to know what's what, I say it's his responsibility to GET OFF HIS ASS ONCE IN A WHILE and make it unambiguously plain. If he can't be bothered to blow his butt of the cloud once in a while, then the LEAST he can do is stop sending us to Hell for not getting it.
The kinds of people who would want to defy him are the kinds of people who always have to be the center of attention,want all the power,money,exe.Think about what it would be like for them if they were in the presence of the smartest most beautiful and powerful being there is who diverted the attention away from them.
"If he created us as he wants us to be, why did he create some of us to NOT worship him? " God created man w/o sin w/ the freewill to obey his laws. Man (Adam/Eve) disobeyed the law and God cursed man and the earth. Everyone born after is conceived in sin and will disobey the law of God by nature. God chose a remnant of man to recreate at a appointed time in their life, all others are blinded to the truth. Why? To show he is loving and merciful, yet righteous and just.
flamer- Simply put,God knows the beginning from the ending, all is done already. What we are doing is living put the fulfillment of his plan. Still to come is his return for his children and the destruction of the unsaved. So the question is are WE over it, can we accept that which he has done, can we understand that he will only save a remnant, and that we can only HOPE that he we save us. God didn't and will not save all. Pray to him ask for his mercy and hope that he will save you.
I suppose I would have the same attitude if I didnt really believe that such a place existed as well.I could then laugh it off and treat it lightly too.Regardless a fear of hell is not the motivating force of my belief,My motive is the desire for you to be well and prosperous,to live!You cannot do this apart from God,he is the source of all good things.Hell is only awful because God maintains no active presence there apart from keeping it in existence and thats your choice that he honours
Yes God indeed knows all past present and future,but that doesn't mean that there are no choices only that he can see the end result.God will save whomsoever asks sincerely,he said he will and will never break his promises,if the wicked would turn from sin he would save them.He said this"I would not that even the wicked would perish".So in believing you do not hope in vain but have assurance based on who God is and not who we are or what we have done.
hs/jbooks- When we quote scripture, we are to keep it in contex w/ the rest of scripture. Man can ask and seek all he wants, but the scripture teach they are not seeking the one true God. Yes we do have a deceitful heart that causes us to believe that we trust and believe in God w/ all of our heart, mind, and soul. Thats just that deceitful heart at work, for the bible says in Rom.3:10-12 that there are none righteous, none that SEEK God, or understand him.
Matthew2400: The only miracles God creates is a sunrise *sarcastically*
Stupid Christian: Sunrises are miracles! It's impossible! It's just magic!!! It's impossible to explain a sunrise the only thing that could possibly create such a thing is God himself!
Matthew2400: I was being sarcastic... sunrises can be explained through science and logic. Just by realising how things work and how you see only certain colours of the sun at certain times.
As a man who has found mercy from God (26 years and counting) I will tell you He is wonderful and beautiful and sweet to me - he is my darling - my Lord - my beautiful Savior, my Jesus - as time goes on, he makes me fall deeper in love with him - I am totally satisfied and fulfilled knowing I belong to him. I am delighted to have him as my Master - he is the most excellent and satisfies my soul. All good things come from Him to me...
I can't wait for the day we use computers to give dogs the power of speech. I'm expecting to hear just this kind of treacle from them about humans. Till they finally figure out we're not gods either.
Frankly, I don't know if there's a god or not. I don't know if Bigfoot's real or not, either. All I can say of either is no one's ever provided me with convincing proof, so my default position remains disbelief.
11 And he shall go forth, suffering pains & afflictions and temptations of every kind; & this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will take upon him the pains & the sicknesses of his people.
"11 And he shall go forth, suffering pains & afflictions and..."
Yeah, yeah yeah. Have you got anything else outside of that ONE BOOK, in this whole great big world, that actually puts some backbone in this jellyfish of an argument you keep making?
Those verses came from the Book of Mormon so yes I have something else outside of that ONE BOOK. There are 2 witnesses for Christ and his atonement and the reality of his existence from 2 different continents. The agony and sweating great drops of blood was from the bible.
"Those verses came from the Book of Mormon so yes I have something else outside of that ONE BOOK."
I ACTUALLY have to say I'm looking for you to substantiate this with something from the real world that all of us, theist or non-believer, can see and agree upon?
Okay...
I'm looking for you to substantiate this with something from the real world that all of us, theist or non-believer, can see and agree upon.
hey JSHALLIST - I have to say that URANUS video of yours is 101% hilarious... not that impressed with your treacle comment though - if you had tasted the treacle, you wouldn't be disparaging it...
12 And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; & he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.
azsuperman - do you have kids? I do and before having them I knew there would be many times throughout their lives that they would disobey me and I had them anyway. Does that me I created my children to be disobedient? God knows all things he doesn't make us be disobedient or create us to be so he just knows we will be and hence why he sent a Savior to provide a way for us to overcome our mistakes.
The difference is, you're not (presumably) omniscient. Your god is. He knew, before you were even actually created, how you'd transgress, and whether he would send you to Hell or not as a result. There's no escaping the logical conclusion that an all-knowing god predestines his creation, and that free will is merely an illusion that results from our nature as limited beings unable to perceive the future with the crystal clarity that your god does.
God is all knowing and does know what we will do from the beginning. He gives us every opportunity and help to do what will bring happiness in this life and salvation in the next. We do have free will because he does not force us.knowing what we will do does not take away that freedom just as I knowing what my kid will do does not take away their freedom to choose. We are here to prove to ourselves. If He just gave us a A or F without ever sending us to school it would be unjust.
You just got finished saying he knows everything we'll do. But we haven't been born yet, or had a chance to act. Therefore, he creates us to perform those certain, KNOWN, functions. There is no free will in this model. No unless we PRE-EXIST God existentially and then he is only INFORMED of our eventual misdeeds... but if we do not, then our misdeeds in fact ORIGINATE INSIDE OUR CREATOR, and the fault is his, not ours. We're merely actors for his script.
I conceive of a robot. It has pain sensors. I conceive of it having no legs. Its task will be to cross the desert to the oil it needs to save itself before the sun fries its circuits. I know, from the outset, that it will fail, but Im determined to create it and put it through all this anyway. Eventually, I do create it, and set it in the desert where it has to crawl, pitifully, towards oil it will never reach. Its joints dry and seize up; its pain receptors register agony...
...And when the sun finally destroys it, I take its brain and hook it up to a torture computer forever for failing. I sit in the observation room with the robots I knew (that is, designed) to succeed, and we watch the computer torture the robots I pre-destined to failure, and well all gloat. I knew all of this would happen.
Would you worship me? Praise me? Acknowledge my love for my creation?
500 limit is not sufficient for me to explain. 1 Corinthians 15 has some of the answers. Find some missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints (mormons) and they can explain that it is not as you suggest. God does not joy in torturing us nor does he torture his children. God is not twisted or sick he is a God of love. I don't care if you become mormon or even religious but I care that people understand who God is. Heaven and hell is not as most proclaim it to be.
Why don't any of you guys ever manage to string together a logical progression that demonstrates how free will can exist in the face of an all-knowing creator god? I'm really starting to believe none of you CAN couch it as a logical argument. I'm getting a little tired of these "drink the Kool-ade and you'll understand" answers. :/
I don't understand how you can say that just because God knows what we will do before we do it removes our free will to choose what we do. We still choose what we do. If he just dished out "heaven" or "hell" to us without giving us a chance to prove ourselves (to ourselves) that wouldn't be just or merciful. And there are 3 degrees of heaven as found in 1 Cor 15 and the majority of people will go to one of those. Hell is for Satan and his worshipers. It is hard to do what you ask on youtube.
Your thesis also begs another question. Do you love your children? Can you imagine anything they could do that would convince you to lock them in a room and torture them FOREVER? Well, supposedly our "loving" creator is geared to do just that to billions upon billions upon billions of his creations. Finite beings, capable only of finite transgressions, but sentenced to INFINITE punishments. And we're supposed to praise, worship, and LOVE this being?
Do you love your parents? Would it not be hell to be seperated from them for eternity? God is our loving Father if we by our choices seperate ourselves from him for eternity that is hell, if we deny ourselves by our choices blessing we could have had that is hell. Eternal burnings are for satan and his followers not the average person. God is more merciful and loving then you know and it is sad that some even religious present him as otherwise.
"Do you love your parents? Would it not be hell to be seperated from them for eternity? "
Yup, and I think if they genuinely loved me, they wouldn't be finding ways to lock me away and torture me FOREVER. That's not love.
"if we by our choices seperate ourselves from him"
What choices? He CREATES us KNOWING what we'll do! That isn't CHOICE, that's a SCRIPT. Why not just "KNOW" none of us will sin? Why not just decide to forgive us all, bar none? He is GOD, after all; able to do anything...
Why not just decide to forgive us all, bar none? He is GOD, after all; able to do anything...
So a student who works hard and one who does nothing should both get A's, to you that is just?
God sacrificed his Son to give us the opportunity for salvation. I could not sacrifice one of my children to save another of my children. God forgives all who repent and believe on his son and to those who never heard of Christ in this life will be given the opportunity in the next life. GOD IS MERCIFUL
"So a student who works hard and one who does nothing should both get A's, to you that is just?"
Isn't that EXACTLY what you people keep promising will happen for us if we only accept your saviour?
"God sacrificed his Son to give us the opportunity for salvation."
Not really. He was in Heaven, came to Earth, kicked around for thirty years, died, then went back to Heaven. Knew he was God all along. Not much of a sacrifice, is it? More like a tour.
He was in agony and sweat as it were great drops of blood he shrunk and would that he not drink the bitter cup. An angel was sent to give him strength. He was beat,spit upon, mocked pierced and nailed to a cross and felt every ounce of it as any human would. Doesn't sound like much of a tour to me.
Repentance and faith in Christ is required for all to recieve salvation. and it seems to me you ignored the last sentence of my last post.
So how many billions of us have suffered that much, or worse -- but we need his suffering? Tell me why. If the idea was to suffer as a human, then why does human suffering count for nothing?
"Repentance and faith in Christ is required for all to recieve salvation."
So a student who works hard should get an F if he doesn't believe the professor's line, but the one who does nothing should get an A if he just nods at the right times? To you, that's just?
Those who never heard of Christ in this life will be given the opportunity in the next life. And there are 3 degrees of heaven as found in 1 Cor 15 and the majority of people will go to one of those. Hell is for Satan and his worshipers
Three degrees of Heaven, huh? Wow, a little like buying an economy car... your basic Heaven, your sports Heaven, and your luxury Heaven.
Suppose luxury Heaven's for Muslims. How are you going to feel in second or third rate Heaven? A little betrayed? A little ripped off? A little sore at your god for not being clear and giving you a real shot at the brass ring? Suppose you ARE right. Is it okay for the rest of them to feel the way you just did there for a second, presumably forever? God's LOVE?
I am sorry you don't want to know & see the mercy & justice of God. We are judged according to the knowledge we recieve & live & rewarded accordingly. I went to school with people who were very happy getting C's& F's & then there were those who would not settle for less than an A. God grants man according to the desire of our hearts. If I end up in the "economy heaven" it will be becuz that is where I choose through my actions to be. We all have the same shot.
"We are judged according to the knowledge we recieve & live & rewarded accordingly."
Then why didn't your god make the knowledge of him manifest to all? Particularly in the fact of the Trinity? Why did most of humanity live and die without ever having heard of Jesus?
pl4all- I agree there are 3 heavens spoken of in the scriptures. The lowest heaven is spoken of in Jer.4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the BIRDS of the heavens were fled. The middle heaven is spoken of in Isa.13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. We all know that God lives in the celestrial heaven which is above all heavens, yep 3
So how many billions of us have suffered that much, or worse -- but we need his suffering? Tell me why.
I don't know anyone who suffered worse since it is impossible as Christ took upon him the suffering of every man, woman and Child ever to live upon the earth not just their suffering from sin but all suffering. And in that he found the way to overcome it, so that he could help us to do the same. Only the Son of God could do that. Our suffering actually does count for something.
"Christ took upon him the suffering of every man, woman and Child ever to live upon the earth"
Oh? Then why do I still suffer if I hit my thumb with a hammer, if he took it on? Sorry, I PERSONALLY know that's not true.
Secondly, we don't know that he did that. You suppose he did, but as I've just established, the evidence of our senses establishes just the opposite. The only thing we "know" -- at least according to your book -- is he hung on a cross till he died. The rest is supposition.
I did not say he did it so we would never feel pain I said he did it & in that he found the way to overcome it, so that he could help us to do the same. To make it possible for our escape from sin & suffering. Example: both an abuser and a victim of abuse can overcome (the one their sin the other their suffering) through Christ. And yes we do know he did that it is what caused him to sweat as it were great drops of blood and shrink and would not that he drink the bitter cup.
So your god died on the cross so that we could continue to suffer, as before; to continue to go to Hell, as before. Doesn't seem like he really thought it through, to me.
"both an abuser and a victim of abuse can overcome (the one their sin the other their suffering) through Christ."
Hold on. You recently asked me:
"So a student who works hard and one who does nothing should both get A's, to you that is just?"
So as long as they both kiss your god's butt, they both get As? So the suffering means nothing. The sin means nothing. It's all the same to your god. All he cares about is, did you suck up to him or not... and THERE'S Heaven and Hell.
I said nothing about kissing anyones butt. You are not trying to understand only dispute. I was referring to this life here on earth and the fact that through Christ suffering the sinner is able to break the chains of sin and stop sinning and the victim or those who suffer in anyway are able to find comfort and healing from their suffering. Because Christ overcame both making it possible for us to do the same. Having been a victim I know I could not have overcome that on my own.
"I was referring to this life here on earth and the fact that through Christ suffering the sinner is able to break the chains of sin and stop sinning and the victim or those who suffer in anyway are able to find comfort and healing from their suffering."
You're missing my point. I'm asking you, WHAT about what you're saying VALIDATES it? I can just as easily say "the Easter Bunny hiding eggs under bushes saves us from being eaten by aliens". Are you obliged to believe THAT just 'cause I say it?
There are 2 tangible physical records that witness of the reality of Christ and what he did for us. There are countless people who have experienced the affects of what he did. He did it for all even atheists who don't believe or want it. If you ever decide you do need God or his help amazingly he will be there for you. He loves us no matter who we are or what we do and even if we don't believe in him. I love all my children equally but they get privileges/blessings according to their actions.
"There are 2 tangible physical records that witness of the reality of Christ"
What are they?
"There are countless people who have experienced the affects of what he did."
Such as? See, what would be convincing to me would be something that's impossible. It's not yet possible for us to regrow limbs. If someone prayed to regrow their arm, and it grew back, I'd be impressed by that, especially if it ONLY happened when people prayed to Jesus. Got anything like that?
Is it possible for a bottle of medicine to never go empty despite daily use for multiple people over several months time and in a concentration camp so you can't say they just got another bottle and lied about it. It is similar to the miracle that took place with Elijah and the widow in 1Kings 17. It has happened for others as well.
"and in a concentration camp so you can't say they just got another bottle and lied about it."
Why can't you? Why can't it just be flat-out MADE UP? I mean, do you have evidence of this? Do we still have this bottomless bottle of pills, still doling out miracles to the afflicted? Or was it not REALLY bottomless -- expiry date, VE Day?
How about a bottomless deck of Get Out of Auschwitz Free cards? Now THAT would have been a miracle. Why didn't your god think of THAT? I just did...
You know what a loving, all-powerful god who didn't want to directly interfere with free will would have done? Whenever the Jews were herded into the gas chambres, he would have seen to it that nothing happened to them. Consistently. They'd come out fine. The guards would test the system on animals, and it would kill THEM, but never the Jews. Something like THAT would have given atheists something to think about... and I bet those concentration camp guards, too!
all the miracles and proof in the world, of which there are many, wouldn't convince you because you do not want to believe just as those in bible times saw miracles for themselves and still did not believe.
@azsuperman01 Also I strongly recomend that you guys watch this video look up propaganda when has god failed us.
JesusForLife24 1 month ago
@azsuperman01 So yes we were bound to failure but that is because God gave us free will. But God does not want us to fail. Also when he says unending mercy he gives it to those who have repented for the wrong things they have done (sin) and is sticking with gravity wrong? No. And he sends you to hell for doing the wrong things you have done and not accepting jesus christ he has tried to save yo but you rejected him then you shall pay for your wrong doings...God Bless :)
JesusForLife24 1 month ago
I've been saying this for years! What God can fail and still be called a god?
julzabro 5 months ago
You see all these three year olds that you love and care for. They are following someone who is leading them off of a cliff and telling them that they are not going to get hurt or die. Would it be cruel to warn them? They are putting their trust in either you or the one who is leading them to destruction. Consider that you are the one who is decieved here, and God wants to give you eternal life with him. Rom 6:16 (we serve one or the other)
YHWHiscoming 8 months ago
wierd..you will sin weather a christian or not..Christ died so you might have forgiveness for your sins thats simple i don't understand what's so complecated bot that..Don't look to Christ for forgivness then don't be forgiven simple its up to you..Yes we are not perfect. And anything then perfection is not worthy of the kingdom so in Christ we are then made perfect in him so therefore enter into the kingdom cool aye
MissChaceurz 8 months ago
If creating the universe is like writing a novel, then this god character should have hired a decent editor before publishing.
Tunnelfish 10 months ago
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@Tunnelfish God makes no mistakes.
smurfboywv 10 months ago
Be careful because god might hear you and crumple up the universe and call a do-over.
DarthKreeg 1 year ago
This is why I follow my HEART the LORD is their and HE is very real as every BEAT!
ul2356 1 year ago
Bravo, you read the bible before to speak and that's very good
Knowing the bible you should have noticed that also what it's wrong or right changes from a page to another, that's because who ruled populations during centuries "adapetd" god and his messages to that specific time, war, sickness, culture, and so on.
Now of course after so much time that book is full of contraddictions, and it's a pain for priest to make it look logical.. adam, jesus, eve, unicorns, moses, giants .. myths? Facts?
ChristianIce 2 years ago 2
My thoughts exactly. It just doesn't make sense, does it? And this is supposedly a loving God?
summersun2828 2 years ago
val im confused you have faith in your god but you don't believe him when he says you can do greater works then i have. these are Jesus words why do you act like i have asked for the impossible. you also said science is gods handy work so why hide it why not tell the people about it so millions could be saved buy vaccines your god is funny he makes the world then kills 99% of the people then hides science from the people then never writes anything down when he comes to kill him self to him self.
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
hey val watch thunderf00t vids or AronRA maybe you will learn something most likely not but who know.....
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
here is one series that will show you some science. 14th foundational falsehood of creationism Pt 1.
or why do people laugh at creationists or maybe you should watch all of az superman01 vids or fighting atheist if you think im so of base. or the atheist experience watch them all if you want a real clear picture of science
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
noproof C'mon. I know you can do better than that. Challenging me to grow an arm back on a vet? Do I look like Jesus to you?? For the record, I've never changed water into wine either, although I occasionally enjoy a glass. You said something else that was assanine..."every thing you have is owed to science everything." You act as if I think science is a bad thing. I'm cool with science. It's simply Man's discovery of God's handiwork.
Velayasha 2 years ago
oh one more thing you say i am the narrow one in my view.s how could this be im not the one saying my way is the truth and the light and if you don't believe me your going to hell this is your view, and it is narrow one. i say no religion has proven anything no god grows back arms or legs never ever. but science has cured and saved more lives then any or all gods put together ie vaccines for small pox or new ways of farming to feed people. every thing you have is owed to science everything.
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
noproof Your arrogance amuses me. The fact that Christmas was originally the pagan Winter Solstice is old news to me. In fact, its probably common knowledge by now. This does not diminish Christmas at all for me. It was pagan then. It's Christian now. We jacked 'em for their holiday and we don't apologize for it. The Bible is a compilation of 66 books. 39 in the Old. 27 in the New. It was compiled at the Council of Nicea. God often works thru men to accomplish His will....
Velayasha 2 years ago
yep you stole all there myths and it still makes them myths lol funny christain believing in magic and talking animals incantaions mass killings of babys what a god god he is. he does nothing he saves no one what a wow factor he has.
here is a fact you might not know when the voting on which books could go in to your new testament they also voted if Jesus was god or not this was split down the middle each other calling the other heretic what a joke they even fought about this.
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
please prove me wrong do just one miracle grow an arm back on a vet fly into the clouds. turn a mentally handy capped person normal do some thing like that and then we can talk.. wow thanks for the number of books in the mythical book they still all equally fact shit told to you by people that new nothing of how the real world works and on top of this they thought god was coming in there life time again another lie amongst tons of lies. believe in talking animals and yes even unicorns.
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
...the compilation of the Bible is no different. Just as God used Moses to lead the Israelites out of Egypt, Gods used the hands of men to write down His Word to lead us out of darkness. The "it was written by man" argument doesn't work with me. God saw to it that the Bible was written. You should thank Him instead of hating.
Velayasha 2 years ago
There is no archeologycal, anthropological or gynecologycal evidence none whatsoever that the Israelites were in Egypt ever. None
hecdaca2007 2 years ago
hecdaca I have no idea why you're talking to me about the Israelites in Egypt. I never mentioned that in my previous posts. But since your claim is so ridiculous, I have to address it. Even if there was no physical evidence of the Israelites in Egypt, the account has been preserved in written word and oral tradition. Western scholars stupidly dismiss oral tradition which in most cases is MORE accurate than written word. The Chinese, African and S.American tribes know this.
Velayasha 2 years ago
So if you acknowledge oral tradicion as a legitimate, accurate and reliable source of knowledge and information then tell me wich one is the true religion for they all have their own conflicting stories, about myths, and miracles. Western scholars don't dismiss oral tradition anymore. they follow leads and try to verify them with evidence a term that religioius people dispise so much.
hecdaca2007 2 years ago
hec Anyways, the Passover would not have been celebrated for thousands of years in Israel was never in Egypt. Does it sound logical to you that a race or ethnicity would fabricate being slaves? A thousand years from now, a global catastrophe could hit us. Records are wiped out. And then someone like you will probably say, "We have no proof of slavery in America. It was all made up."
Velayasha 2 years ago
yes, vela you did mention Moses and the Israelites coming out of Egypt e week ago or so.
hecdaca2007 2 years ago
@Velayasha Well said!
raponte1955 8 months ago
you can also attribute the dark ages to the church thanks for that to the repression of human thought.
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
just so you know Christians kept killing after the crusades we also have the Salem witch hunt.how we killed the Indians because they were devil worshipers or we even have god fearing men owning slaves. and until about 80 years ago blacks couldn't even go to a white church and the pastors said nothing about this but yes now all is good with the Christians they haven't killed any one in the last 60 years. so you were right they are good now it just took them 1500 years to stop killing people lol
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
no books even of his time and on top of that the authors of the so called new testament are not even known and it say this in the i think the NIV version most people think it might have been written by them but it could have been written by someone who new them but that also is just a jump since you have no original text from the time. so what did Jesus say i and you don't really know you just believe what you read. what you have put down are not facts. just you narrow view of the world.
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
noproof My view of the world is narrow?? I'm a christian with muslim, jewish, agnostic, bhuddist, and atheist friends. Close friends. Can you claim that? I'm well aware that mine is not the only religion and I respect other people's views. Much better than you seem to do. You've been told that christians are narrow minded, so that is what you assumed about me. You were not correct. Also, I never said you were crazy. I said u foolishly lumped Christianity in with...
Velayasha 2 years ago
yes i have friends of all faiths this doesn't mean i agree with them and if you can prove author ship of the new testament you would be the only one.
as for the above comment about wearing the same clothing doesn't change the fact that as a christian you owe the spread of your faith to mass murder that's a fact and there is nothing more to say if this didn't happen your religion would have gone the way of all the other religions that are know myth.
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
...the atrocities committed by the medevial Church. If I wore the same style of clothes you wear, got a haircut similiar to yours, then committed murder....should you get the blame? Or should I? As far as the Bible goes [I don't read the NIV] most of it's authors are accounted for. Peopel were not stupid back then. They kept records. Information may have been lost in wars and such, but the Bible's origins are solid. I can prove that.
Velayasha 2 years ago
noproof You have some nerve calling anyone's view of the world,"narrow". You have little room to talk. I also realize that in your haste to hate on everything christian, you deem your opinions as fact. If you can show me what army the early christians used to turn the Roman Empire into the Holy Roman Empire, then I'll believe Christianity was spread by bloodshed. Did wars happen? Yes. But that was against the Muslims. And that was much, much later.
Velayasha 2 years ago
if you new your history you would know there was a civil war in Rome the Christians against the pagans as Rome was a pagan country the Christians were winning and Constantine to keep his country form ripping it self apart became a christian i believe on his death bed. then Constantin brought all the faction of Christianity together and told them that they need a coherent bible to go by and this is how the bible you have today came to be. the books were chosen by man and written by man silly
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
The early christians used the witness of their testimony. Not swords. They professed of Christ at risk to their own lives. Many christians were tortured and killed. This small cult of the Man from Nazerth grew because it offered hope. Not the edge of a sword.
Your memory of Christianity appears to stop at the Crusades, in which Jesus was hundreds of years removed.
Velayasha 2 years ago
hey by the way did you know why Christmas is on dec 25th because Rome was a pagan country and they had been worshiping mithra and that was Mithra day for celebration the wreaths were also from Mithra the Romans new they couldn't get rid of the holiday so the just changed it to when Christ was born lol your most celebrated holiday is really a holiday to a pagan god lol you have just been miss lead lack of info cause you to believe in the fair tales they have feed you since birth.
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
i love how you said i foolishly merged the corruption of the church and politics together i was stating a fact from history.
what can i expect from some one who believes he came from dirt donkey can talk and god killed him self so that he could then allow him self to forgive as there would be no other way ok what ever i guess i will just believe in gravity and thing of that nature but im the crazy one
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
Ya know,, maybe it's just me, but .. . put that way.
It looks like the Mental disorder they tie to the Superhero healers, who make patients sick to heal them, and then kill them if they turn on them. I know there is a name for that and I'm drawing a blank.
Kinda.... Seems like it's one long fucked up experiment.
KernsNoel 2 years ago
your a smart guy, you have very complex views but you put them in a manner even a child couild understand. Religion is a fuckin joke, and jesus was most likely a homosexual anyway.
VinniePaz42069 2 years ago
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xgracearberx 2 years ago
God has failed. I completely agree with you on trying to explain to ignorant theists that their god has failed miserably. If God's Plan is true, then he planned every murder, rape, pedophile, and any pain. You speak like coming from theist's point of view, and saying things like "God is omnipotent." That is very respectful coming from an atheist. Now if you will excuse me, I have innocent people to kill, and since God planned everything I do, and I have no free will, obviously, it's OKAY. :)
AmandaGEEKFACE 2 years ago
Amanda And what is your definition of failure? For the sake of argument, let's say there is a God. Have you ever considerered that maybe God didn't fail? Maybe His plans and your plans are not the same? If an army has no intentions of conquering city A, u can't call the lack of an invasion a "failure". For this moment in time, God has no plans for world peace in the time that you would have it be.He works on His time. Not ours.
Velayasha 2 years ago
My definiton of failure: lack of success.
No, I have not considered that God didn't fail, because I know God does not exist. I know there is no higher being than myself. And if an army has no intentions of conquering a city, and don't invade the city, they had no plan for success, either. So, I agree, you can't call it a failure, but nor can you call it a success. That last statement you made, made no sense.
AmandaGEEKFACE 2 years ago
Amanda You made so many mistakes in your response, that I don't know where to begin. Your words:"I know God does not exist. I know there is no higher being than myself." Correction: It's your OPINION that God does not exist. You don't KNOW anything that you can call a fact on this particular topic. In fact, the only way you could "know" there is no God, would mean that you are omnipotent. A god. Science has not disproved God. You were taught to believe a terrible lie.
Velayasha 2 years ago
Amanda If your age is correct on your profile, it really saddens me. I was 16 once, and like you, I thought I knew everything. Most teens are guilty of that. Your words, "there is no higher being than myself", indicates the same kind of closed mind that many atheists accuse believers of. As vast as the Universe is, it's highly unlikely that we are alone. Or that we are the highest in the Universe. You are too smart to have such a narrow, closed view of life.
Velayasha 2 years ago
Don't put me in a category of narrow-minded teenagers. I've done plenty of research. I wouldn't argue if I did not. The absence of any god is just something I feel very strongly for, just like you and your beliefs. It's a quality all humans share, the want to be right, and you need to realize this. For you to say I think of myself as omnipotent is extremely ignorant of you. The only way YOU could ever "know" there is a God, would make YOU all knowing, and omnipotent, as well, wouldn't it?
AmandaGEEKFACE 2 years ago
Also, has your "god" proven himself existent? Has he shown you himself? I can go to any hospital in the world, and see a dying child, and listen to them pray to God to not let them die, but your God lets them. If he has a Divine Plan, but at the same time he is omnipotent, couldn't he change a certain event in this child's set path to save them? It is YOUR opinion that God exists. You do NOT know, do you? You have faith in a supernatural explanation, you can't prove anything with that.
AmandaGEEKFACE 2 years ago
Amanda You've done research? Does that mean studying books on atheism and the failures of religion, to reinforce your predetermined opinion? God is not man, or a physical substance. You can't let lab test God. So of course there will be no obvious physical proof. But logic is on my side. Not the atheist's. It's a stretch to think that Man is the only sentient beings in the Universe. It takes a lot of faith to be an atheist. It's simply isn't logical.
Velayasha 2 years ago
Velayasha,
Never have I once stated that I believe we are the only sentient beings in the universe. That would be incredibly ridiculous. Yes, I have done very much research. Research relevant to theism, not soley atheism, and the failures of religion. Explain the logic in God for me, please. I am honestly asking, that is not a sarcastic remark. Of course I am biased on this subject, but I know science is much more logical than any supernatural entity, I would like to know why you think that.
AmandaGEEKFACE 2 years ago
Sorry to butt in on this, but you comment made me stop and comment. NO logic is NOT on your side. To say it takes more faith to be an atheist just shows your level of intelligence. As you obviously do not even know the definition of "Faith"
So please, don't try to bring logic into this, as you HAVE AND WILL CONTINUE TO LOSE any debate you try and put forth on that basis.
quickett 2 years ago
quickett You say I will lose any debate on that basis, but here I am. I'm still standing. Think about how vast the Universe is. Microbiology, quasars, black holes, etc. These involve chemistry and equations that I can't even fathom. Astrophysists are still trying to figure out the heavens. The atheist view is that "if Man can't prove it, then it doesn't exist." I suppose DNA never existed before we discovered it? I stand by my previous statements.
Velayasha 2 years ago
Velayasha,
John McCain is still standing, doesn't mean he didn't lose. I see that you completely ignored supplying the definition for "faith"
The default answer for all unknowns is not God. Period.
You speak about research, how can you research something that can't be studied? You CANNOT study God. You can only study what men have written about their belief of God.
quickett 2 years ago
quickett I'm not John McCain. And a person CAN study God. God wants us to study and obey Him. Therefore He provided us the material to do just that. God spoke to the prophets and personally saw to it that His word was preserved for the Ages. You're an atheist, so of course this will make no sense to you. When you're ready to expand your knowledge, instead of limiting it as atheism requires, let me know.
Velayasha 2 years ago
How exactly can you study God? Show me where I can see him. Show me where I can touch him. Show me where I can smell him. Show me where I can hear his voice. Not going to taste him, not that kind of guy.
You keep bringing faith into this(still waiting for your definition of Faith by the way), just because you believe what was written in a book, doesn't make it fact.
Who verified what the prophets claimed were Gods words were in fact Gods words?
quickett 2 years ago
How exactly does Atheism limit my knowledge? You need knowledge to be Atheist. Like I said before, don't try to debate based on logic because you will lose. Believing in God does not expand your knowledge, and it has not expanded one persons knowledge in history, quite the contrary. The belief in God, has set our society and humanity back as a whole.
quickett 2 years ago
It appears that we're at a stalemate. You're still waiting on my definition of faith, and I'm still waiting to [as you put it] "lose". I'll get to the faith part. I'm just letting you know that I don't need faith to point out the flaws in atheism. I can use logic alone and do that.
You illustrated perfectly why atheism limits knowledge with your words:
"Show me where I can see him. Show me where I can touch him. Show me where I can smell him. Show me where I can hear his voice...."
Velayasha 2 years ago
Your questions show that atheists cannot or will not, see beyond their 5 senses. You can blame this on the western mind set. In the East, even people who are not christians, [bhuddists, hindus, shaolin monks, etc] they know that human beings have at least 7 senses. Not 5. They call it Nirvana. The Native Americans called it the Great Spirit. They were in tune to the energies in the Earth and the heavens. Atheism says, "I don't see it, therfore it don't exist. That stifles learning
Velayasha 2 years ago
You said that you can use logic to point out the flaws, go ahead. We're waiting....
No, atheist know that if something is beyond the 5 senses it is supernatural. Anything supernatural cannot be verified, or reviewed. Therefore cannot be studied. Nobody in the East nor Native Anericans KNOWS that humans have 7 senses. they BELIEVE humans do. Using these as a reference means you are no longer waiting to lose, you just did.
quickett 2 years ago
What stifles learning is a system that declares anything that goes against the scriptures as heresy. Sound familiar? Ever heard of the inquisition, the crusades, witch hunts, Galileo?
And you try to say atheism stifles learning? How many people were put to death for scientific ideas that were proven to be correct?
That you could even entertain the idea that atheism results in a lower level of intelligence is astounding and downright shameful.
quickett 2 years ago
quickett Wow, you're an arrogant one, aren't you? "you are no longer waiting to lose, you just did. " Cute, funny, but wrong. Now sit back and let me show you how us real chriggaz get down. We're used to not being able to completely study the supernatural. But we do acknowledge it's there. Those who can't [atheists] either have a defiency of the numerous senses, or a fear of the unknown. A fear that results in denial, or hostility. You see....
Velayasha 2 years ago
...existence does NOT depend on Man to be validated. The atheist's position is that it does. That would make us gods, wouldn't it? The very things u don't believe in. 200 years ago, the atheist would have said,"I can't see it, touch it, smell it, taste it ,or hear it. Therefore DNA does not exist." You limit your scope of understanding the art and sciences of the universe. Religion does not. Faith pursues it.
Velayasha 2 years ago
You say I'm wrong, please quote something I said and refute it. Other than that you are just claiming that I'm wrong. You have no basis for any arguments you have besides blind faith.
"We acknowledge it's there." what kind of unintelligible babble is this? You know you can't study the supernatural, but by acknowledging it makes it exist?
Your arguments are childlike at best.
quickett 2 years ago
It's like me asking my daughter whether Santa exists and she says YES! I ask her what proof does she have and her proof is other kids from her school who also say he exists so he must exist. Do you see where you fail with your sources? Arrogant, No. I am just stating the facts.
If you cant study the supernatural with the senses, how can people who can't study it have a deficiency in their senses? You make absolutely no sense. How does this translate into a fear of the unknown?
quickett 2 years ago
lol i was reading you argument with velayasha. Every single time you responded to them you proved them wrong. How the fuck they tought they won i dont understand. I gave up trying to talk to them anymore. It used to make me laugh when they spouted their fairytale crap, but not anymore. It just annoys me, i dont understand how people can be so stupid. Its the 21st century, its the age of knowledge. Dont they know how to use the internet to figure this stuff out?
bobby472 2 years ago
bobby472 So because we have the internet, that is supposed to break the faith of christians, muslims and jews? Wishful thinking. The internet is a great tool, but it's not a "god disprover" as u would have it to be. And if atheism is so "smart" and religion is so "stupid", then why hasn't atheism taken hold like Christianity and Islam has? I'll tell you why: Atheism offers no answers, and no hope. God does.
Velayasha 2 years ago
lol my comment before answered your question.
the only reason religion was and is so big, is because people were stupid back then. Some how it grew big and infected so many. But if you used the INTERNET, you would see that religion is falling world wide, atheism is rising. As technology advances, religion falls. Christianity said that the world was flat, the earth was the center of the universe, dinosaurs and humans lived side by side. Technology disproves all "gods" created by man. sorry
bobby472 2 years ago
bobby Your words: "the only reason religion was and is so big, is because people were stupid back then." So let me get this right...The Egyptians who gave us geometry and the pyramids were stupid? Why is that? Because they didn't have X-Boxes and I-Pods? If it weren't for those "stupid" people back then, we wouldn't have computers. We sim[ply built on the groundwork they had laid for us. You really should pick up a Bible sometime and read it. I can tell that you haven't.....
Velayasha 2 years ago
people had a lot less knowledge of how the natural laws worked and why so they were primitive to us and they filled in what they didn't know with mythical gods to explain shit this is a fact like the world was flat or the sun revolved around the earth you know shit like that was thought as fact or Zeus would throw lighting from the sky. by the way Zeus impregnated a human woman and Hercules was half god half man sound like another story that came after the Hercules myth?
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
....Christianity is a younger religion than the various pagan ones BUT paganism is not older than God Himself. It's not older than Creation. In the beginning of Creation, the prophecy of the Messiah was around. Every religion had a semblance of God's prophecy. Even human sacrifice was a twisted version of God demanding blood to cover away sins. Sound familiar?
They copied from ancient Jewish prophecies. Even in Genesis, it predicts of Jesus. The Greeks copied from us who serve Yaweh.
Velayasha 2 years ago
actuality it wasn't some how, all religions we have were spread by murder and death. convert or die sinner, most said fuck off at first then when they started burning people at the stake people were like ok i will convert and that is how it spread. this is straight history no refuting this,it was never by love they only spout that shit now that we have laws against killing people because they have an opposing religious view point but nice try Velayasha
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
oh and atheism does give answers, and hope. Religion gives false hope, and no answers what so ever. Atheism allowed you to have the computer you are using, the makeup you use. Your education (which im assuming you have), the car you drive, the longer life humans have. Because as "god" says, science is the work of the "devil" and you are supposed to NOT use it. But yet you do.......hmmmm thats odd. what else do you pick and choose out of the bible?
bobby472 2 years ago
...read it. For example: You said that Christianity claimed that the world was flat and Eart was center of the Universe. I challenge u to find that in the Bible for me. It simply isn't there, Maybe a misguided christian said that, but Christianity did not.
Velayasha 2 years ago
no the church said that, and even after Galileo proved the sun didn't revolve around the earth the church mad him say he was wrong, and this fact was kept from the people for another i think 200 years maybe a 100 but either way the church said both these things and they also said Jesus was born of a virgin in both count were going off bull shit.
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
noproof You watch a bit too much Zeitgeist. Nothing you've said has disproved my point. That's because I tell the truth. I challenge you to find in the Bible for me that the world is flat. Or the Sun revolves around the Earth. Don't bother, because u won't find it. But I'm sure you'll continue to blame the Bible and Christianity for things it NEVER said. Corruption in the Church and Jesus' teachings are 2 different things. You foolishly merge the 2 of them into one.
Velayasha 2 years ago
i was correcting you on how you worded your point since no one said that it says that in the bible but it does infer that we are gods prize creation and everything was made around gods great creation this is were the church got this idea from.
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
noproof There's no doubt there was corruption in medevial Church. This is what happens when politics, power and religion merge. You get Crusades, witch burnings and Inquisitions. You think Christians don't know this?? You falsley blame Christianity. Did Jesus say to massacre people? Convert them by the sword? No! And you know that. I do not defend the Church. But I will defend Christianity when you tell falsehoods against it. As for your Herecules, half God myth, that's easy...
Velayasha 2 years ago
1.again i said the church said this.
2. the spreed of Christianity and the mass amount of people that believe in this myth was a result of this this is a fact you own the survival of your religion to the mass murder.
3. no religion has spread through love this a fact end of story.
you claim that the church is good now well which version do you believe is the right version as there are 33000 different versions tell us o wise one which one should we follow and don't be vague pick one.
noproofforjesus 2 years ago
This guy still doesnt make sense. He confuses his thoughts of Rejecting God with " I cant fly ", even a kid could understand what the bible says. Sounds like my wacky uncle that thinks he is like Jesus, same thoughts and talking like my uncle.
DoWrongHadesAwaits 2 years ago
It explains why god doesn't help anyone on earth in the bible.
yoyoboy70 2 years ago
i don't choose with my mind i choose with my heart to understand what you want you have to see deep inside of you
glueed 2 years ago
You should only ask forgiveness for what you have done wrong,only you think your a superman who has never done anything wrong at all.Everybody has done something they knew was wrong,even you.the problem your not understanding is that in order to love God you have to be free to make a choice this is what that scripture means that we were bound to disobdience but then by Gods mercy we have the option to accept or reject regardless of our mistakes,his mercy and live or die according to our choice.
historyaccountant 2 years ago
"his mercy and live or die according to our choice."
Mercy? He created us with the capability to sin knowing that we would and when we do in the OT stories we are punished with severe brutality. If he really wanted worshipers, why not just create them? Instead, he creates us and gives us the very charactersitics which he then decides to torture us for. Mercy? I don't think so. Its more like Wickednes
sashajw1234 2 years ago
Oh yes make a tape recording that always tells you "your so great I love you,your just the best".Look just because you know that someone with free choice might choose to not accept you doesnt mean that he isnt willing to take the risk.You know I really wish there was enough space on these comments for eveything I have to say about it.Any court of law upon reviewing the evidence would reach a verdict of God is just and fair after all you live and clearly dont accept,is that not mercy?
historyaccountant 2 years ago
"God is just and fair after all you live and clearly dont accept,is that not mercy?"
Not my kind of mercy, may be you condone your god for allowing the needless death and suffering of the defenseless in the world. Babies and toddlers starving to death. Murder of the innocent. Disease victims, leprosy, cancer. If hell is real, I will sit there, because this 'God' is evil. He could save these people. Instead hes content to watch them suffer and die. This is not worth worship.
sashajw1234 2 years ago
The earth grows more than enough food to feed the worlds population,murderers do the killing.I don'thave a degree in biology so I wont go there,though I could.And finally it would indeed be curel if death were the end of life,but it's not so whats your point?If you want to go to hell God will honour your choice,but it isnt his will for you to go there,you said so yourself it's your decision.If God micromanaged everything then none of us would ever learn anything,or have any free will.
historyaccountant 2 years ago
"The earth grows more than enough food to feed the worlds population,murderers do the killing."
'God' created the scenario, he knew what we would do to one another, yet, he didn't change it? He could of created us differently, but he choose not to.
end of life,but it's not so whats your point?
Suffering children with brain cancer, thats my point. Ever seen it? I have. The thought of someone imposing it, is sick. Nothing nice about it. second life or not.
sashajw1234 2 years ago
sashajaw What makes you think that God owes you or Mankind something? You don't believe in Him. If God does help you, you're lucky. You fault God for kids with cancer. I pose the question, "Why should God save your children? Especially when half the world is shaking their fist towards believers and saying, "Where is your God?" The meek shall inherit the Earth. Not those who hate or "don't believe" in their Creator.
Velayasha 2 years ago
"Especially when half the world is shaking their fist towards believers and saying, "Where is your God?"
And for this we get millions of dead innocent children around the world. Death by disease, by violence, starvation. We get this because hes in a snit? Hes having a 2000 year mood swing? This is worth worship? He could stop this, but he just doesn't want to? Is that what your saying? Ever seen a 4 year old with brain cancer?
sashajw1234 2 years ago
sasha I don't like this set up anymore than you do. And I'm a christian. But it is, what it is. This is the same God who sent The Flood and wiped out most of the earth's population. He also sent the Israelites into the land of Canaan to kill off the tribes who lived there and claim the land. Men, women and children. Personally, I think our generation has gotten off easy so far. Instead of hating on God, I choose to be on His side. And my faith is not based on fear. It's on gratitude.
Velayasha 2 years ago
..and based on logic too.
Velayasha 2 years ago
"Any court of law upon reviewing the evidence would reach a verdict of God is just and fair"
Yup, just and fair that why we have children with missing limbs or severe deformities. Why does 'God' not heal these poor kids? Thats some divine plan you worship. He rewards decent people with suffering (Paraplegics) while evil people. (Saudi Royal family who enforce whipping of old women who have men in their house) with a life of luxury. Yah, nice justice.
sashajw1234 2 years ago
hey sashajw1234 - maybe you should be asking God to explain himself to you... there ARE a lot of things that we, as believing Christians DON'T know and need to ask God to teach us... I do, however, honestly believe that God will reveal himself to the genuine enquirer - the person who is seeking truth. Mind you, those individuals are few and far between. Even many who THINK they are genuinely seeking aren't really... our wicked hearts deceive us all...
jbooks888 2 years ago
hey jbrooks 888:) Thanks for the comment. The only thing I don't get about montheistic scripture is how people draw mercy and kindness from it. Because it is clearly not mercifull or kind. All this energy we waist on the hope of paradise after death. I believe we should build heaven here and now. This life is the only life we know we all have. For many decent folks, its total misery. A truly loving god, would not allow this. It is simply why i can not accept montheism.
sashajw1234 2 years ago
Hey sashajw1234,
Just want to say that I, too, have wondered why life isn't more perfect for everyone on earth since God is so kind and merciful. But then as I think that I can't help but think that even when God is being kind and showing mercy, 99.9% of the time we don't even acknowledge it. But then as soon as something bad happens all all fists are being shaken at Him and all blame and hate is going toward God. (cont.)
Larfie89 2 years ago
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Larfie89 2 years ago
I can't help but wonder "maybe if God was to receive some thanks and honor for the blessings that He gives us in life, maybe things would be a little better?"
Also, everytime in the Bible that God demonstrates judgment its not just a random "hmm I feel like killing someone" type of a thing at all. God is a just God (thank goodness). In the Bible you also find that any sort of judgment that God brings on a people it is usually preceded with a plea to repent, and if they repent, he relents.
Larfie89 2 years ago
Hi Larfie,
Well i can't say that your wrong because i can't prove it. I used to volunteer part time at a childrens hospital. All I can say is, 'God' doesn't seem so just when a terminally ill kid stares at you and says, "Sasha, why does 'God' give me death? What did I do?" I got a lot of this, it's heart breaking. I also met an Atheist nurse who spent most of her life helping these kids. For her service, she goes to hell? I for 1, can't wrap my head around the idea that this deserves worship.
sashajw1234 2 years ago
sashajw,
Wow, that must have been heartbreaking seeing and talking to those sick kids. I honestly don't know why He allows such innocent little children to suffer like that. I don't understand it either and I won't pretend like I have the answer. I do know that He is good though. I have seen kids healed from terminal illnesses, I have on the other hand seen kids not make it. BUT the times when they haven't made it some amazing and beautiful always happend as a result.
Larfie89 2 years ago
"some amazing and beautiful always happend as a result." Well, honestly, I hope your right. Curiously enough my friend. You sound quite like a friend of mine. She rejected her christian up bringing but still believes strongly in the idea of a 'God'. To her, all decent people will be accepted. Believers or not. Straight or not. If your a decent and honest person, your life will be rewarded. If I was to believe, that would be my type of God for sure. Not this montheistic monster:/
sashajw1234 2 years ago
It's not impossible to please God - just humble yourself ask God, and He will show himself to you - and bless you with everything you need to do whatever he requires...
jbooks888 2 years ago
Weird how God only answers the prayers of the rich. Weird how he leaves those literally STARVING to death in Africa, praying for a bowl of rice, but gives you your new prada purse.
atta girl!!
ragingflamerboy 2 years ago
Holy crap, I love your videos. Keep it up AZSuperman01!!!
supermandan85 2 years ago
Some people I ask say that "God created us to have free will and give us the choice to worship him or not."
But if he knows what we're going to do and EXACTLY what we're thinking, then he made us to think a certain way and do certain things.
That's not exactly free will if he knows what we're going to do and he created us to not worship him, then expects us to worship him, despite what we were created to do in his 'master plan'.
God doesn't cure diseases. Our immune system does.
Matthew2400 2 years ago
No,only the potential for good and evil so that you can make the choice.Yes he does know the outcome because he exists without time but it is you who gets to make the choice.God only expects people who want to worship him to do so,and if you dont then he has set aside a place where he is not just to honour your wishes.Thats an awful lot of special care for such small creatures as we.If I were you I would get informed enough to understand the choice I was making.
historyaccountant 2 years ago
I couldn't agree more with what you just said!
According to Christians, he created us in HIS IMAGE and he knew EXACTLY what we are thinking, what we're going to do, what we're going to think. He knows EVERYTHING about us and about everything and he knows what's going to happen all in his 'special plan for us'.
But ask yourselves this:
If he created us as he wants us to be, why did he create some of us to NOT worship him?
Sorry ran out of word count please read the following comment above...
Matthew2400 2 years ago
"If he created us as he wants us to be, why did he create some of us to NOT worship him?"
Probably because, if the god of the Bible does exist, he's just jerking us around for his own pleasure:
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isiah 45:7)
Who would want to worship a guy like this?
jshallist 2 years ago
Yes - but if He is real then who would want to defy him? But bside that, the Bible tells us God is righteous and Holy - everything He does is right - if we can't see it, then we need more information.
jbooks888 2 years ago
That's the problem with Christian theology. They always try to make it OUR fault. Hey, we're all finite beings, but this guy's all-knowing, all-powerful, and omnipresent. If this guy really wants us to know what's what, I say it's his responsibility to GET OFF HIS ASS ONCE IN A WHILE and make it unambiguously plain. If he can't be bothered to blow his butt of the cloud once in a while, then the LEAST he can do is stop sending us to Hell for not getting it.
jshallist 2 years ago
The kinds of people who would want to defy him are the kinds of people who always have to be the center of attention,want all the power,money,exe.Think about what it would be like for them if they were in the presence of the smartest most beautiful and powerful being there is who diverted the attention away from them.
historyaccountant 2 years ago
I sure fuckin' wouldn't... and don't.
supermandan85 2 years ago
"If he created us as he wants us to be, why did he create some of us to NOT worship him? " God created man w/o sin w/ the freewill to obey his laws. Man (Adam/Eve) disobeyed the law and God cursed man and the earth. Everyone born after is conceived in sin and will disobey the law of God by nature. God chose a remnant of man to recreate at a appointed time in their life, all others are blinded to the truth. Why? To show he is loving and merciful, yet righteous and just.
WIzDum82 2 years ago
But Jesus died for our sins, didn't he? So isn't God kind of over that? or no?
ragingflamerboy 2 years ago
flamer- Simply put,God knows the beginning from the ending, all is done already. What we are doing is living put the fulfillment of his plan. Still to come is his return for his children and the destruction of the unsaved. So the question is are WE over it, can we accept that which he has done, can we understand that he will only save a remnant, and that we can only HOPE that he we save us. God didn't and will not save all. Pray to him ask for his mercy and hope that he will save you.
WIzDum82 2 years ago
I'd rather burn in hell, thanks. :)
ragingflamerboy 2 years ago
I suppose I would have the same attitude if I didnt really believe that such a place existed as well.I could then laugh it off and treat it lightly too.Regardless a fear of hell is not the motivating force of my belief,My motive is the desire for you to be well and prosperous,to live!You cannot do this apart from God,he is the source of all good things.Hell is only awful because God maintains no active presence there apart from keeping it in existence and thats your choice that he honours
historyaccountant 2 years ago
Yes God indeed knows all past present and future,but that doesn't mean that there are no choices only that he can see the end result.God will save whomsoever asks sincerely,he said he will and will never break his promises,if the wicked would turn from sin he would save them.He said this"I would not that even the wicked would perish".So in believing you do not hope in vain but have assurance based on who God is and not who we are or what we have done.
historyaccountant 2 years ago
hs/jbooks- When we quote scripture, we are to keep it in contex w/ the rest of scripture. Man can ask and seek all he wants, but the scripture teach they are not seeking the one true God. Yes we do have a deceitful heart that causes us to believe that we trust and believe in God w/ all of our heart, mind, and soul. Thats just that deceitful heart at work, for the bible says in Rom.3:10-12 that there are none righteous, none that SEEK God, or understand him.
WIzDum82 2 years ago
Matthew2400: The only miracles God creates is a sunrise *sarcastically*
Stupid Christian: Sunrises are miracles! It's impossible! It's just magic!!! It's impossible to explain a sunrise the only thing that could possibly create such a thing is God himself!
Matthew2400: I was being sarcastic... sunrises can be explained through science and logic. Just by realising how things work and how you see only certain colours of the sun at certain times.
Stupid Christian: NO!! That's only your opinion!
Matthew2400 2 years ago
that s true why doesnt god hear the prayers from all the amputees
praying that thier limbs grow back
GOD IS A FAIRY tale that mankind cant let go of it
REGWHY 2 years ago
As a man who has found mercy from God (26 years and counting) I will tell you He is wonderful and beautiful and sweet to me - he is my darling - my Lord - my beautiful Savior, my Jesus - as time goes on, he makes me fall deeper in love with him - I am totally satisfied and fulfilled knowing I belong to him. I am delighted to have him as my Master - he is the most excellent and satisfies my soul. All good things come from Him to me...
jbooks888 2 years ago
I can't wait for the day we use computers to give dogs the power of speech. I'm expecting to hear just this kind of treacle from them about humans. Till they finally figure out we're not gods either.
jshallist 2 years ago
So what are you saying - God is actually there? He is real after all.
jbooks888 2 years ago
Frankly, I don't know if there's a god or not. I don't know if Bigfoot's real or not, either. All I can say of either is no one's ever provided me with convincing proof, so my default position remains disbelief.
jshallist 2 years ago
In my opionion, as far as I know - the best answer to the sentiment displayed in this video from the Bible is Romans Chapter 9 :
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
That's all we got!
jbooks888 2 years ago
11 And he shall go forth, suffering pains & afflictions and temptations of every kind; & this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will take upon him the pains & the sicknesses of his people.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
"11 And he shall go forth, suffering pains & afflictions and..."
Yeah, yeah yeah. Have you got anything else outside of that ONE BOOK, in this whole great big world, that actually puts some backbone in this jellyfish of an argument you keep making?
jshallist 2 years ago
Those verses came from the Book of Mormon so yes I have something else outside of that ONE BOOK. There are 2 witnesses for Christ and his atonement and the reality of his existence from 2 different continents. The agony and sweating great drops of blood was from the bible.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
"Those verses came from the Book of Mormon so yes I have something else outside of that ONE BOOK."
I ACTUALLY have to say I'm looking for you to substantiate this with something from the real world that all of us, theist or non-believer, can see and agree upon?
Okay...
I'm looking for you to substantiate this with something from the real world that all of us, theist or non-believer, can see and agree upon.
jshallist 2 years ago
hey JSHALLIST - I have to say that URANUS video of yours is 101% hilarious... not that impressed with your treacle comment though - if you had tasted the treacle, you wouldn't be disparaging it...
jbooks888 2 years ago
I love molasses... once it's finished turning into rum. :D
jshallist 2 years ago
12 And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; & he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
azsuperman - do you have kids? I do and before having them I knew there would be many times throughout their lives that they would disobey me and I had them anyway. Does that me I created my children to be disobedient? God knows all things he doesn't make us be disobedient or create us to be so he just knows we will be and hence why he sent a Savior to provide a way for us to overcome our mistakes.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
The difference is, you're not (presumably) omniscient. Your god is. He knew, before you were even actually created, how you'd transgress, and whether he would send you to Hell or not as a result. There's no escaping the logical conclusion that an all-knowing god predestines his creation, and that free will is merely an illusion that results from our nature as limited beings unable to perceive the future with the crystal clarity that your god does.
jshallist 2 years ago
God is all knowing and does know what we will do from the beginning. He gives us every opportunity and help to do what will bring happiness in this life and salvation in the next. We do have free will because he does not force us.knowing what we will do does not take away that freedom just as I knowing what my kid will do does not take away their freedom to choose. We are here to prove to ourselves. If He just gave us a A or F without ever sending us to school it would be unjust.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
"He gives us every opportunity"
You just got finished saying he knows everything we'll do. But we haven't been born yet, or had a chance to act. Therefore, he creates us to perform those certain, KNOWN, functions. There is no free will in this model. No unless we PRE-EXIST God existentially and then he is only INFORMED of our eventual misdeeds... but if we do not, then our misdeeds in fact ORIGINATE INSIDE OUR CREATOR, and the fault is his, not ours. We're merely actors for his script.
jshallist 2 years ago
I conceive of a robot. It has pain sensors. I conceive of it having no legs. Its task will be to cross the desert to the oil it needs to save itself before the sun fries its circuits. I know, from the outset, that it will fail, but Im determined to create it and put it through all this anyway. Eventually, I do create it, and set it in the desert where it has to crawl, pitifully, towards oil it will never reach. Its joints dry and seize up; its pain receptors register agony...
jshallist 2 years ago
...And when the sun finally destroys it, I take its brain and hook it up to a torture computer forever for failing. I sit in the observation room with the robots I knew (that is, designed) to succeed, and we watch the computer torture the robots I pre-destined to failure, and well all gloat. I knew all of this would happen.
Would you worship me? Praise me? Acknowledge my love for my creation?
Or would you call what I do twisted and sick?
jshallist 2 years ago
500 limit is not sufficient for me to explain. 1 Corinthians 15 has some of the answers. Find some missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints (mormons) and they can explain that it is not as you suggest. God does not joy in torturing us nor does he torture his children. God is not twisted or sick he is a God of love. I don't care if you become mormon or even religious but I care that people understand who God is. Heaven and hell is not as most proclaim it to be.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
Why don't any of you guys ever manage to string together a logical progression that demonstrates how free will can exist in the face of an all-knowing creator god? I'm really starting to believe none of you CAN couch it as a logical argument. I'm getting a little tired of these "drink the Kool-ade and you'll understand" answers. :/
jshallist 2 years ago
I don't understand how you can say that just because God knows what we will do before we do it removes our free will to choose what we do. We still choose what we do. If he just dished out "heaven" or "hell" to us without giving us a chance to prove ourselves (to ourselves) that wouldn't be just or merciful. And there are 3 degrees of heaven as found in 1 Cor 15 and the majority of people will go to one of those. Hell is for Satan and his worshipers. It is hard to do what you ask on youtube.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
Your thesis also begs another question. Do you love your children? Can you imagine anything they could do that would convince you to lock them in a room and torture them FOREVER? Well, supposedly our "loving" creator is geared to do just that to billions upon billions upon billions of his creations. Finite beings, capable only of finite transgressions, but sentenced to INFINITE punishments. And we're supposed to praise, worship, and LOVE this being?
jshallist 2 years ago
Do you love your parents? Would it not be hell to be seperated from them for eternity? God is our loving Father if we by our choices seperate ourselves from him for eternity that is hell, if we deny ourselves by our choices blessing we could have had that is hell. Eternal burnings are for satan and his followers not the average person. God is more merciful and loving then you know and it is sad that some even religious present him as otherwise.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
"Do you love your parents? Would it not be hell to be seperated from them for eternity? "
Yup, and I think if they genuinely loved me, they wouldn't be finding ways to lock me away and torture me FOREVER. That's not love.
"if we by our choices seperate ourselves from him"
What choices? He CREATES us KNOWING what we'll do! That isn't CHOICE, that's a SCRIPT. Why not just "KNOW" none of us will sin? Why not just decide to forgive us all, bar none? He is GOD, after all; able to do anything...
jshallist 2 years ago
Why not just decide to forgive us all, bar none? He is GOD, after all; able to do anything...
So a student who works hard and one who does nothing should both get A's, to you that is just?
God sacrificed his Son to give us the opportunity for salvation. I could not sacrifice one of my children to save another of my children. God forgives all who repent and believe on his son and to those who never heard of Christ in this life will be given the opportunity in the next life. GOD IS MERCIFUL
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
"So a student who works hard and one who does nothing should both get A's, to you that is just?"
Isn't that EXACTLY what you people keep promising will happen for us if we only accept your saviour?
"God sacrificed his Son to give us the opportunity for salvation."
Not really. He was in Heaven, came to Earth, kicked around for thirty years, died, then went back to Heaven. Knew he was God all along. Not much of a sacrifice, is it? More like a tour.
jshallist 2 years ago
He was in agony and sweat as it were great drops of blood he shrunk and would that he not drink the bitter cup. An angel was sent to give him strength. He was beat,spit upon, mocked pierced and nailed to a cross and felt every ounce of it as any human would. Doesn't sound like much of a tour to me.
Repentance and faith in Christ is required for all to recieve salvation. and it seems to me you ignored the last sentence of my last post.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
So how many billions of us have suffered that much, or worse -- but we need his suffering? Tell me why. If the idea was to suffer as a human, then why does human suffering count for nothing?
"Repentance and faith in Christ is required for all to recieve salvation."
So a student who works hard should get an F if he doesn't believe the professor's line, but the one who does nothing should get an A if he just nods at the right times? To you, that's just?
jshallist 2 years ago
Those who never heard of Christ in this life will be given the opportunity in the next life. And there are 3 degrees of heaven as found in 1 Cor 15 and the majority of people will go to one of those. Hell is for Satan and his worshipers
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
Three degrees of Heaven, huh? Wow, a little like buying an economy car... your basic Heaven, your sports Heaven, and your luxury Heaven.
Suppose luxury Heaven's for Muslims. How are you going to feel in second or third rate Heaven? A little betrayed? A little ripped off? A little sore at your god for not being clear and giving you a real shot at the brass ring? Suppose you ARE right. Is it okay for the rest of them to feel the way you just did there for a second, presumably forever? God's LOVE?
jshallist 2 years ago
I am sorry you don't want to know & see the mercy & justice of God. We are judged according to the knowledge we recieve & live & rewarded accordingly. I went to school with people who were very happy getting C's& F's & then there were those who would not settle for less than an A. God grants man according to the desire of our hearts. If I end up in the "economy heaven" it will be becuz that is where I choose through my actions to be. We all have the same shot.
In school we all can get A's.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
"We are judged according to the knowledge we recieve & live & rewarded accordingly."
Then why didn't your god make the knowledge of him manifest to all? Particularly in the fact of the Trinity? Why did most of humanity live and die without ever having heard of Jesus?
jshallist 2 years ago
News flash - This life is a school where we can learn the greatest lessons of life and there is proof all around of the analogy I made.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
pl4all- I agree there are 3 heavens spoken of in the scriptures. The lowest heaven is spoken of in Jer.4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the BIRDS of the heavens were fled. The middle heaven is spoken of in Isa.13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. We all know that God lives in the celestrial heaven which is above all heavens, yep 3
WIzDum82 2 years ago
So how many billions of us have suffered that much, or worse -- but we need his suffering? Tell me why.
I don't know anyone who suffered worse since it is impossible as Christ took upon him the suffering of every man, woman and Child ever to live upon the earth not just their suffering from sin but all suffering. And in that he found the way to overcome it, so that he could help us to do the same. Only the Son of God could do that. Our suffering actually does count for something.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
"Christ took upon him the suffering of every man, woman and Child ever to live upon the earth"
Oh? Then why do I still suffer if I hit my thumb with a hammer, if he took it on? Sorry, I PERSONALLY know that's not true.
Secondly, we don't know that he did that. You suppose he did, but as I've just established, the evidence of our senses establishes just the opposite. The only thing we "know" -- at least according to your book -- is he hung on a cross till he died. The rest is supposition.
jshallist 2 years ago
I did not say he did it so we would never feel pain I said he did it & in that he found the way to overcome it, so that he could help us to do the same. To make it possible for our escape from sin & suffering. Example: both an abuser and a victim of abuse can overcome (the one their sin the other their suffering) through Christ. And yes we do know he did that it is what caused him to sweat as it were great drops of blood and shrink and would not that he drink the bitter cup.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
So your god died on the cross so that we could continue to suffer, as before; to continue to go to Hell, as before. Doesn't seem like he really thought it through, to me.
jshallist 2 years ago
"both an abuser and a victim of abuse can overcome (the one their sin the other their suffering) through Christ."
Hold on. You recently asked me:
"So a student who works hard and one who does nothing should both get A's, to you that is just?"
So as long as they both kiss your god's butt, they both get As? So the suffering means nothing. The sin means nothing. It's all the same to your god. All he cares about is, did you suck up to him or not... and THERE'S Heaven and Hell.
jshallist 2 years ago
I said nothing about kissing anyones butt. You are not trying to understand only dispute. I was referring to this life here on earth and the fact that through Christ suffering the sinner is able to break the chains of sin and stop sinning and the victim or those who suffer in anyway are able to find comfort and healing from their suffering. Because Christ overcame both making it possible for us to do the same. Having been a victim I know I could not have overcome that on my own.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
"I was referring to this life here on earth and the fact that through Christ suffering the sinner is able to break the chains of sin and stop sinning and the victim or those who suffer in anyway are able to find comfort and healing from their suffering."
You're missing my point. I'm asking you, WHAT about what you're saying VALIDATES it? I can just as easily say "the Easter Bunny hiding eggs under bushes saves us from being eaten by aliens". Are you obliged to believe THAT just 'cause I say it?
jshallist 2 years ago
There are 2 tangible physical records that witness of the reality of Christ and what he did for us. There are countless people who have experienced the affects of what he did. He did it for all even atheists who don't believe or want it. If you ever decide you do need God or his help amazingly he will be there for you. He loves us no matter who we are or what we do and even if we don't believe in him. I love all my children equally but they get privileges/blessings according to their actions.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
"There are 2 tangible physical records that witness of the reality of Christ"
What are they?
"There are countless people who have experienced the affects of what he did."
Such as? See, what would be convincing to me would be something that's impossible. It's not yet possible for us to regrow limbs. If someone prayed to regrow their arm, and it grew back, I'd be impressed by that, especially if it ONLY happened when people prayed to Jesus. Got anything like that?
jshallist 2 years ago
Is it possible for a bottle of medicine to never go empty despite daily use for multiple people over several months time and in a concentration camp so you can't say they just got another bottle and lied about it. It is similar to the miracle that took place with Elijah and the widow in 1Kings 17. It has happened for others as well.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago
"and in a concentration camp so you can't say they just got another bottle and lied about it."
Why can't you? Why can't it just be flat-out MADE UP? I mean, do you have evidence of this? Do we still have this bottomless bottle of pills, still doling out miracles to the afflicted? Or was it not REALLY bottomless -- expiry date, VE Day?
How about a bottomless deck of Get Out of Auschwitz Free cards? Now THAT would have been a miracle. Why didn't your god think of THAT? I just did...
jshallist 2 years ago
You know what a loving, all-powerful god who didn't want to directly interfere with free will would have done? Whenever the Jews were herded into the gas chambres, he would have seen to it that nothing happened to them. Consistently. They'd come out fine. The guards would test the system on animals, and it would kill THEM, but never the Jews. Something like THAT would have given atheists something to think about... and I bet those concentration camp guards, too!
But that didn't happen. Why not?
jshallist 2 years ago
all the miracles and proof in the world, of which there are many, wouldn't convince you because you do not want to believe just as those in bible times saw miracles for themselves and still did not believe.
peaceliberty4all 2 years ago