Sam harris is a smart guy. Instead of just 'Buddhism', he cautiously used the word 'tibetan buddhism' to refer to specific group within groups and he seemed to think every words carefully before he speaks. Good job for a man with background in meditation - mindfulness maybe.
@hrantnano Had you been a Muslim you would not have used abusive language,see the difference between muslims and you an infidel! It wont be a surprise if you answe me with even more abusive language,cos you ar used to.Thank Allah I am a proud muslim
I've seen theist/theist debate and it doesn't go much farther than "My religion is better than yours; you're wrong because of the following set of shitty arguments I can't backup..."
Mr. Sam Harris, for such supposedly intelligent man, you are awfully ignorant to believe that planes brought down the WTC. That's just as retarded as believing in talking snakes and a 5000 year old earth.
@Myaucat Even IF 9/11 was victim to some grand government conspiracy, Harris' point still stands because Islamic Extremists still did hijack planes, kill people on board with box cutters, and fly them into the towers. That fact is irregardless of whether or not the planes themselves caused the towers to fall.
In one sentence you state something true, that all people shouldn't be held responsible for what extremists do, and in the other you make a comparison that is truly idiotic.
The attacks and atrocities by islamists worldwide are done with the inspiration of Islam and IN THE NAME OF IT, whereas none of the wars you stated had a religious factor. If we apply your mindset to conflicts muslim are involved in that aren't religiously based, the blame on Islam increases greatly.
@ogith just a point of fact - Hitler started WW2 in the name of Christianity WITH the backing of the Vatican. If you read much of Mein Kempf and his speeches, he states very clearly that he is there to wipe away the infidels.
Regardless, Harris' point is that the moderate Christians make those things possible.
@hrantnano whose daughter? Adolf Hitler's father was a Roman Catholic. Adolf Hitler was a baptized Roman Catholic. Adolf Hitler had no children. I think many people now-a-days completely miscalculate how anti-Semitic the WORLD was during the 1930s. The KKK grew to its height of power in the 1920 and 30s targeting Jews. The 1924 Johnson Reed act virtually stopped the immigration of Jews to the US. antisemitic catholic taking power was supported by the Vatican. thought was Jews killed Jesus.
Are you such ignorant, have time to waste or just hopeless propagandist:
Zionist claim to Palestine is based a bogus G-d promise to Israelite, which even Zionists Khazars are not. Their here & now atrocities demolition of Palestinian homes, burning of fields & trees, targeting of Children all spelled out in Talmud:
Rabbi, Od Yosef Hai yeshiva, The King’s Torah: “..There is justification for killing babies if it is clear they will grow up to harm us..” published Nov. 9, 2009
He "bashes" Islam and "ignores" the other religions (far more religions than just the abrahamic ones, and he mentions this), because none of the other religions have had comparable religious extremism to what Islam has in the here and now for hundreds of years, if ever.
Christians don't bomb embassies when the bible is burned. Jews don't decapitate captives while quoting the talmud. Jains don't target more moderate jains. Hindus don't suicide bomb crowds of nonbelievers.
@arraba99 I think Harris is fully aware of that, and I did not take away the same sentiment the he ignored other religions. However, Israel is a nation that is more than just Jewish....
From what I understood, Harris was saying that in the US, religious moderation (Christians btw) allows for extremists because they make it taboo to talk about religion. Which in turn, makes it hard to talk about the horrible attributes of certain religions. He mainly ignores Judaism because it is so small.
@arraba99 because he is a jew....but all those killings you mention were not done by religious teachings,,where as islam as a relgion caused all the barbaric attacks on sovereign nations and subjugated them to islam...jihad is prescribed in islam and islam only...to kill nonmuslims..no ther religion prescribes death to people of different religions..only islam....read the quarn..
Loser: Islam/Muslims are vilified & suffering; But pushed westerns to curiously study Quran, thus increase conversion to Islam. An unintended long term benefit.
Loser: Arabs, used to curtail their freedom even more; hundred of thousands of Iraqis killed.
Loser: Iraq was destroyed, without “war on terror”, it would be hard to justify invasion.
Loser: Americans: Lost thousands of soldiers; economy is shattered; erosion of privacy & freedom.
6: Diminish individual freedoms for more control of people in preparations for trouble ahead –you have seen unprecedented police brutality against Occupy Wall street movement. More trouble & brutality to come.
Winners and Losers of “War on Terror”
Winner: “israel” having some of its “enemies” destroyed Iraq & Iran next. And also using war to justify its brutality against Palestinians & continue their occupation
IV American Zionist NeoCons & ‘israel” were urging USA to attack Iraq & 6 Muslim/Arab countries since 1991 (check clean break), well before 9/11; but why?
The motives behind “War on Terror”
1: War is big business & a lot of people & corporations benefit from it , especially elitists (50%+ Zionist) & military corp. & lobby;
2: Have America fight “israel’s” wars for it & weaken its perceived “enemies”
This is not only about 9/11. This is about it, and the thousands upon hundreds of thousands of attacks worldwide since and before that.
It's about islamists in Nigeria charging into churches and gunning down people. Islamists suicide bombing people in india. About hostage-taking in Russia. Ongoing slavery in Mauritiania. Rapes in europe. Pedophilia in middle-east. etc
Islam has a negative influence WORLDWIDE that you can't just ignore by saying "IT'S THE USA/JEWS FAULT!"
Every time you ignore this, every time you refuse to respond to the fact of this global negative activity expressly stated as in the name of the religion, by trying to blame it on the jews or some vague conspiracy, you are only doing yourself and your precious religion even further disfavors.
Across nations, cultures, races, social strata, educational divides, Islam manages to inspire people to outrageous act of barbarity, violence, and human suppression
You know you are distorting facts; you are either hired agent or hate blinded Zionist. As despite refuting your claims, you keep on bashing Islam.
But the more, evangelist, Zionists, Fox news … bash Islam, the more it is spreading in West - 30-50,000 yearly converts in America & 100 daily in Britain.
Many converts state: Islam bashing led them to Islam; they start researching it to find out how bad it was; they find the opposite & subsequently convert.
The world is larger than the yanks or the jews, and you are doing yourself a disfavor for believing the tripe you just posted.
News sources report about converts to ease the burden of the moderate muslim, to portray them in a much-needed positive light due to Islam's reputation. It is rarely mentioned how many people leave islam because it would be counter to the agenda of these news sources.
In Africa alone, 6 million muslims deconvert from Islam, est. 200 000 in the UK.
The issue of Islam's numbers is muddled due that most muslim nations forbid muslims from leaving Islam, and the fact that the same West you brand as evil allow countless muslims into their countries means that ex-muslims are afraid of being subjected to violence by their muslim neighbors
And I'll assume that you are unaware that 75% of converts in the USA leave Islam
Whatever. None of this changes the fact that Islamists cause harm globally, wherever Islam has a presence.
Sam Harris exposes islam yet again for what it really is, hateful, murderous,poisonous, intolerant, misogynistic, and cancerous. Islam hates the West and is intent on trying to destroy us. We must stand up for ourselves and cut out this religious cancer in our midst. It baffles me why all these deluded fools can believe a childlike fable written by a power crazed paedophile.
The famous English Playwrite George Bernard Shaw, said: “ the world much needs a man with Mohammad’s bright thinking, if a man like Mohammad were to assume, the rule of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems bring peace and happiness to it”
The famous Russian writer Leo Tolstoy Said: Believes that Mohammad’s religion will prevail over the whole world. As it is in conformity with mind and wisdom.
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world" - Winston Churchill
@MountAnalogue Actually, Marx did not write that, though he did express something similar in the introduction to his 1843 treatise, "Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right." A more accurate rendering would read, "[Religion] is the opium of the people."
What intelligent People say about the noblest of all
Michael Hart, American
Writer of the book “100 a ranking of the most influential Persons in History” ranked Prophet Mohammad at the top. He says: “… he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels. It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influence single figure in human history.”
I've seen that ranking used as some kind of positive title in Muhammad's Honor, but realize that it is a measure of influence rather than one of moral clout or qualitative truth. Hitler, Stalin, and many other dictators are on that list for the same reasons that Muhammad are, but as most of them failed they are far lower on said list. Muhammad was a warmonger, a bandit, a slaver, and a pedophile who created a religion that revolved around him, and he was successful at it.
@GenghisCohen1 Actually, it is neither naive, nor incorrect. Muslims adopted suicide bombing long after the Japanese and the LTTE. During the Iran-Iraq war actually. Nothing about Israel. What Sam is referring to is the motivation and passion for inflicting violence that seems to permeate Islam. I am an optimist though. Islam is about 1400 years old, and when Christianity was 1400 years old, they were burning people alive. This is just a phase and it will pass. Expect an Islamic renaissance :)
@mapo12 what's a compelling evidence for an existence of such periods in a history of religions? I would think there was a driving force in an attempt to turn dark ages into renaissance, and we should try to mimic it. I think there are no cycles.
Quran: 9:123 “O you who have attained to faith! Fight against those deniers of the truth who are near you, and let them find you adamant ; and know that .God is with those who are conscious of Him"
This key phrase in this verse is “who are near you” it is referring to the unbelievers who fought, killed and tortured Muslims some for ten years before they Muslims were allowed to fight them back.
Self-defence is not in contradiction with peaceful principles.
@arraba99 Fighting back? With suicide attacks on busy market places *in their own countries*? By killing 3000 innocent civilians by flying planes into buildings?
As true of your bigoted ilk, you are good at pointing fingers at the slightest of other people’s imperfections while oblivious to your savagery in Iraq (250,000 killed), Vietnam (burning children with Napalm agent orange) and first to use Nuclear Bombs on Japanese civilians.
Let me tell you bastard! The blood of one single Iraqi child is worth all your kind.
Your degenerate and debased moral code is being exposed day by day and it will catch up with you.
If you expect Muslims to condemn 9/11 regardless who did it, and they did out of their own moral standards!
What is your and the West moral code say about the killing of 250,000 (mostly civilians) Iraqis killed by America/West? And who in the West condemned it?
stop trying to defend an iron age brain-washing technique.faithful muslims (al-qaeda) said this: "You infidels and despotic, we will continue our jihad and never stop until God avails us to chop your necks and raise the fluttering banner of monotheism when God's rule is established governing all people and nations,
@arraba99 ... {continued} "you and the West are doomed as you can see from the defeat in Iraq, Afghanistan,elsewhere ... We will break up the cross, spill the liquor and impose jizya then the only thing acceptable is a conversionor the sword.""
Your vulgarity is NOT a substitute nor a convincing answer!
I have read Newspapers daily for last 20 years; I have not seen mainstream western condemnation of American slaughter of 250,000 Iraqis (mostly civilians).
As for 9/11, all Muslim countries & mainstream organization condemned it.
Now tell me:
1- Do you yourself condemn American slaughter of 250k Iraqis?
2- Can you list Western governments or mainstream organizations that condemned American slaughter of Iraqis.
Not only is that number incorrect, but any and all statistics on the deathtoll in the Iraq war will be general ones, which include those who lost their lives due to "insurgent" violence, focused US attacks, and outright mistakes. The real number is somewhere around 150-170k, and what constitutes civilian/insurgent deaths is supremely muddied due to the proven fact that lies are often used to make a killed militant seem like a civilian, creating a martyr out of their death.
I don't know what rock you've been hiding under, but just about every single western nation had protests to varying degrees against the iraqi war, seeing it as meaningless and utterly wasteful. You will find more than a few official news and governmental sources decrying the war, but if you're looking for people who "condemned the slaughter", then forget it.
Yes I am looking for government & mainstream groups of West to “condemn the slaughter” of Iraqis by America; as you expected (and they did) Muslims to condemn 911, regardless of perpetrators.
9/11 caused the loss of 3,000+ innocent life; While Iraq's invasion caused the loss of vastly more innocent lives -(50,000; 100,000; 200,000;, 250,000) whatever you fancy !!
And why should I “forget” equal indignation at the loss of life?
You shouldn't forget indignation at the loss of lives. What you should forget is anyone taking credit for any "slaughter", as the rhetoric behind such statements try to paint the deaths of iraqis as solely due to US-forces and bear the claim that the deaths of civilians was a conscious aim by them, which it only was for the various islamic forces who then (and still today) target places where more moderate muslims gather.
You said: "...as the rhetoric behind such statements try to paint the deaths of Iraqis as solely due to US-forces and bear the claim that the deaths of civilians was a conscious aim by them ..."
And you believe that tens of thousand of Iraqis were killed unintentionally? The America army must have serious “aiming” problem!
Have you NOT heard about he endemic unprovoked killing of civilians (e.g Haditha Massacre); Or indiscriminate bombing of villages, towns & Neighbourhoods.
You said: "...as the rhetoric behind such statements try to paint the deaths of Iraqis as solely due to US-forces and bear the claim that the deaths of civilians was a conscious aim by them ..."
And you believe that tens of thousand of Iraqis were killed unintentionally? The America army must have serious “aiming” problem!
Have you NOT heard about he endemic unprovoked killing of civilians (e.g Haditha Massacre); Or indiscriminate bombing of villages, towns & Neighbourhoods.
Instances of violence like the haditha massacre are in no way "endemic" to the american or allied war effort, and these men were tried by these very same forces for their crimes.
Yes, there is a COMPARISON to be found with Islam.
We have the 1400 year slave trade it was involved in, and which nations like Saudi Arabia (the very heart of Islam, in certain respects) only ended in the 1960s, after western nations put pressure on them. The orgy of violence that was the muslim expansion, a period of war, slavery, and atrocities that eventually came to spark the Crusades. Then there's the occupation of India, which cost 80 million lives, etc.
And your talk about WW1&2 smacks of not only of ignorance of history, but also of logical fallacy. Not only were muslims involved to varying degrees in both wars, but the wars themselves were not explicitly or even implicitly due to religious grounds. And if we are to count these as christian offenses simply because christians were involved, we must then do so with wars muslims were involved in that were not due to Islam, which pumps up the islamic death toll even more.
Furthermore, your claim of deliberate and conscious targeting of civilians is not only ridiculous, it is utterly baseless. Even the likes of wikileaks, which has and continues to leak information from the military itself, shows no sign of such a genocidal conspiracy. This is pure propaganda on your part, most likely from islamic sources with either glorify or give excuses for the terrorists
Civilians have always suffered the worst in wars, this is why war is so abhorrent.
Let's just for the sake of argument skim over all these and consider them true.
How does this in any way either nullify or excuse the fact that Islamists are not only doing the very same thing in Iraq, but are using this kind and more violence, subsuming peoples rights, crippling education/science/social values/etc in Iran, Pakistan, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Mauritania, Sudan, India, Russia, and just about everywhere else Islam has a foothold?
You are still trying to divert from the issue we started with:
If you expect Muslims to condemn the 9/11 (hwich they did), regardless of the FAR FRINGE perpetrators! Why are YOU and mainstream WEST not condemning the vastly more criminal act of killing 250,000 Iraqis committed by MAIN stream western leadership? Which I proved them to you with Youtube videos.
Already responded to you regarding this, and you have made it abundantly clear that you are a stereotypical muslim conspiracy theorist who couldn't care less about the damage Islam is doing worldwide.
You fail to get it through your thick head that this goes beyond any single one nation and just how many atrocities Islam currently is involved in.
Keep making excuses for terrorists worldwide by arbitrarily blaming the yanks/jews, see how much it helps the view on muslims.
You are doing what many islamist sympathizers do, and I find it disingenuous as all hell
You equate the atrocities of Islam, a cross-national, cross-racial, religion, with that of the USA, a single nation. Or rather, you compare a religion to individual or groups of truly/potentially rogue soldiers, who if (often WHEN) caught are reprimanded severely. This is not a matter of "USA vs Islam". Only propagandizing islamists claim it is. Islam is a problem wherever it is.
Furthermore, that list of movies you posted in no way worked in favor of your argument.
Most of those, when given looks into their context, revealed them to be indeed BAD, but not the horrors you would have us believe. And "US War Crimes- By the US army" in particular was a damn joke: A slideshow of scenes lacking any and all context to inspirational music, which repeated several scenes or where from a singular instance (which was later punished) of isolated misconduct.
If you hate the USA, that is you issue, but do not try to twist this into some kind of defense for islamic violence in its entirety, because it is not. In Europe, Africa, Middle-East, Asia, and even the Americas, Islam is involved in a disproportionate amounts of violent acts with clear ties to religious motivation.
Even the slightest search on the matter will not only show you a list of over 100+ documented resisters to the Iraq War, but also the fact of the protests the world over. "between January 3 and April 12, 2003, 36 million people across the globe took part in almost 3,000 protests against the Iraq war"
9/11 was just one instance of the violence endemic to Islam which goes on globally, and no even close to comparable protests are being made by Muslims.
Note: I am not referring to people, who are largely decent & fair minded, when they know the facts, which is rare
America invaded Iraq without cause; so they are fully responsible for ensuing destructions & killings. Previous question remains?
As for “violence of Islam”, who killed 100M in: ”WWI, WWII, Vietnam, South Korea, Atomic Bombs on Japan Civilians, Americas, Indonesia, Iran (1953), Colonial wars: Asia, Africa & ME, Palestine…
Islam does not permit attacks against civilians as it defines the term, not as we do.
A civilian under Islamic rule is anyone who is either a muslim or who is a jizya paying dhimmi. Anyone outside of that definition is free to attack, enslave, and kill. The standard procedure in Muhammad's attacks and in innumerable muslim attacks since has been killing all the men and male children, and enslaving the rest
Also, most of the "good" verses are abrogated by the war-like ones
To claim that Islam is a religion of peace is to be either incredibly ignorant of what it speaks of and how it has been used, or to be consciously deceptive in an effort to dissuade scrutiny into its workings.
In every last country that Islam has sat it roots the social, moral, and scientific development pretty much halted. Almost all of the good verses in the quran/hadith are either taken horribly out of context, or are abrogated by later verses that urge the believers to slaughter.
its funny lol theres a group in facebook "insult allah" (again) and the most of them are like burn in hell mofu and stuff and they are saying :" our religon isnt violent, islam means peace! die motherf***er" xD
I wish you do not use profanity. We do not need it. If you have facts and right on your side, you do not need cursing. If you must, use harsh words in response to their profanity.
They use cursing & profanity when they run out rational, reason & intellect to escape from being cornered with facts.
Apology for unintended sounding condescension, at last an Atheist with knowledge, reason and integrity that sees this video for what it is. This has been sorely lacking on this video's comments.
I prefer a well reasoned argument even if against my view, over a sloppy one that may supports it. Intelligence breeds intelligence and the inverse is true.
Where were the suicide bombers before the creation of the state of Israel? Out and out ridiculous statement at about 2:30 to 2:34. Where are the Tibetan monk suicide bombers? A better question might be who was invading Bhutan before China was invading Tibet? Or how about why is this Dali Lama such a seemingly nice guy when the others were whore mongers and crooks like the popes? I am an atheist and must say that I do not support this extraordinarily naive ideology in this video.
If someone knocks down science without knowledge, we call him ignorant. Do not knock down Quran without knowledge. If you are atheist (or not) and claim reason; the first dictate of REASON is to know.
Do not knock it down based on Hollywood & media sound bites & the likes of Sam who admits to never reading the Quran or commentators who twist things for their own agenda.
Check all American atheist Dr. Laurence Brown (Episode 3) search for truth
This is you ego talking, but suite yourself, it is your loss.
But, the goat herder (and proud of it) was NOT semi-illiterate; he was completely illiterate – could not read or write.
Which beg the question: How and from where did he come up with the Quran, a masterpiece of eloquence, knowledge and facts, some only discovered in the last few decades.
Note: The human civilization did start in the 20th century. It has been going on for at least 5,000 + years.
@arraba99 How? Easy: They made it up. Wishful thinking does the rest. As with the crap that Nostradamus was spouting. Bullshit that people *wanted* to be true, so they read into it whatever they wanted. Such wishful thinking is very old. 5000+ years at least.
the quran is hardly a masterpiece. it a manual for mind control littered with tales of genocide, rape, murder and torture. I hardly call that eloquent.
(5:33) It is a just recompense for those who make war on God and His apostle43, and endeavour to spread corruption on earth, that they are being slain in great numbers, or crucified in great numbers, or have, in result of their perverseness, their hands and feet cut off in great numbers44, or are being (entirely) banished from (the face of) the earth: such is their ignominy in this world45. But in the life to come (yet more) awesome suffering awaits them.
@arraba99 Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
2:216 “ FIGHTING is ordained for you, even though it be hateful to you;…” This verse relates to an incident when group of Muslims were attacked by unbelievers during the 4 months during which Arabs were prohibited to fight. Muslims did not want to fight, so it was revealed to say you must fight back & if you do not, there may be worse consequences
Notice how fighting even in defence is described as hateful to Muslim (& non), but one must do it to prevent worse
@arraba99 Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are ruthless against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"
2:222 “AND THEY will ask thee about [woman's] monthly period. Say: "It is a vulnerable condition. Keep, therefore, aloof from women during their monthly courses… and when they are cleansed, go in unto them as God has bidden you to do…”
2:223 “Your wives are your tilth; go, then, unto your tilth as you may desire…”
Verse 222 was to prohibit intercourse during women period & prohibit anal sex, & 223 to allow all else. Thus go unto your tilth as desired. NOT rape.
ok, you've shown that maybe i took some of these quranic ayats out of context, however...
Christ and Buddha were far more peaceful than Muhammad the extortionist, warrior and pedophile. Some prophet, huh? Look what is being done all over the world in the name of "the religion of peace": 9/11, 7/7, the assasination of theo van gogh, the slaughter of christian nigerians and thai buddhists by muslims who invaded their lands.
25:51 “Now had We so willed. We could have [con¬tinued as before and] raised up a [separate] warner [prophet] in every single community”
25:52 “hence, do not defer to [the likes and dislikes of] those who deny the truth, but strive hard against them, by means of this [divine writ], with utmost striving”
Verse 51 says G-d could send a prophet to each town (as before), but we have sent you to all, thus 52, be steadfast to all & do not defer (obey literally) to them
[27] "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, [28] bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. [29] If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. [30] Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. [31] Do to others as you would have them do to you.
Luke 12:51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword
Explain?
Quran, 5:32 ..if anyone slays a human being-unless it be [in punishment] for murder or for spreading corruption on earth-it shall be as though he had slain all mankind; whereas, if anyone saves a life, it shall be as though he had saved the lives of all mankind
I cant explain the bible to you as im not a christian. I am simply anti-islamic and pointing out how jesus and buddha were far better examples of honor and virtue than the pedophile murderer muhammad (piss be upon him)
Do you really think that your vile heart, filthy mouth & apparent infantile intellect that resort to insult instead reason count in the scheme of things!
There is what intelligent People say about the noblest of all:
The French philosopher, Lamartine said: ” Mohammad is the Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Warrior, Conqueror of Desires/Fantasies in all standards by which greatness is measured, we may well ask: is there any man greater than Mohammad?!
MUHAMMED'S EXAMPLE IS STRICTLY FOLLOWED BY MUSLIMS. THAT IS WHY MUSLIMS KILL IN THE NAME OF GOD. IF YOU READ THE QURAN, THE HADITHS YOU'LL SEE THAT MUHAMMED KILLED, LOOTED, TOOK WOMEN AS SEX CAPTIVES, 33:50-52, TOOK ONE FIFTH OF THE BOOTY LIKE A BANDIT, 8:1, 8:41, MARRIED AICHA WHEN SHE WAS 6 AND PENETRATED HER WHEN SHE WAS 9, ETC. MUHAMMED KILLED APOSTATES, STONED ADULTERERS AND PREACHED JIHAD OR AGGRESSION TO EXPAND ISLAM AND TOLD MUSLIMS TO FIGHT TILL ISLAM CONQUERS THE WORLD, 9:29-33
@malikidmc no, fucking WRONG. There is no "faith" put in scientists, that's the difference between science and religion. Science examines the arguments, whether or not they make sense, their validity. Relative morality concerns itself with REAL human well-being, in THIS life. Religious claims are taken at face value on the basis of "faith" because that's all you have. You cannot prove or disprove any religious claim, by nature. Russel's teapot.
Read the Quran. Muslim’s holy book with an open mind so at least you can speak out of knowledge. People judge the Quran based on their knowledge of Torah and the Bible. The Quran which was revealed 1400 years ago, speaks of the Big Bang, the expanding universe, Red Dwarfs, Water being basic component of every livening thing, detailed description of embryonic development …etc. all of which ware not known till the 20th century. This is why so many western scientist converted to Islam.
"The Quran which was revealed 1400 years ago, speaks of the Big Bang, the expanding universe, Red Dwarfs, Water being basic component of every livening thing...all of which ware not known till the 20th century"
LOL! Aristotle, and other greek scientists, wrote about all of these subjects 2000+ years before the invention of the Quran. Mohammed and friends were late to the party by multiple millenia!
"This is why so many western scientist converted to Islam."
" Greek scientists wrote about these [Big Bang, Expanding Universe, Red Dwarfs ..] 2000+ years ...]
I know about Greek scientist work, but it seems you know something that human history of science and scientist do not know. Can you enlighten us with your references; if true I would like to correct my perception.
"Can you enlighten us with your references; if true I would like to correct my perception."
Glady. Read:
A History of Astronomy from Thales to Kepler, by John Louis Emil Dreyer.
A History of Ancient Mathematical Astronomy, by Otto Neugebauer.
I'm also reading a book by William Ritter, called Darwin and the Golden Rule, which details Aristotles work covering the development of lifeforms. It's astounding how accurate he was.
The references you are making regarding history of astronomy speak of old traditional Greek Astrology mixed with philosophy who had very important work, but theorised that earth was the center of the universe. This theory was debunked by Fakhr al-Din al-Razi (12th century) who theorized of millions of universes each more massive than our own.
Muslim founded empirical sciences which they applied to astronomy and led to significant advances in astronomy. Cont’d
Also of interest to you might be translations of the Epic of Gilgamesh. It references the writers version of the beginning of the universe, and it is extraordinarily similar to the account given in the Quran, (aside from the pagan imagery, a monotheistic religion wouldn't stand for such nonsense, of course). But the general sequence of events is the same. The epic was written around 2750 B.C. A *long* time before the Quran.
Sorry to burst your bubble, mate, but this is history.
Muslim astronomers introduced exact empirical observations, experimental techniques, and empirical testing by Ibn al-Shatir. They separated Aristotelian physics from astronomy (Ibn al-Haytham) & others leading to development of astronomical physics.
The point is Muslim astronomy and astronomers were significantly more advanced than the Greeks, neither Greeks nor the Muslim spoke of Big Bang and expanding universe. Read your references carefully. Cont’d
"The point is Muslim astronomy and astronomers were significantly more advanced than the Greeks"
Certainly, I fully agree. But are we talking about scholars, or an Allah-inspired Mohammed who gave all of this knowledge to his followers via the Quran?
Because you just don't have the verses to back up your claims.
I will happy to quote you the verses relating to some of these facts later to support my arguments. If you would have copy of the Quran (illustrated), I can just reference chapter and verse with my comments. As if I quote the text, it will take a lot of space, But I will do that , gradually if needed. Cont’d
If it's any consolation, the Epic of Gilgamesh adds heavy credence to the notion that the "Origin of the Universe" books in the Old Testament were basically forgeries of myths that had been propagated throughout the Fertile Crescent for centuries before it was written, so the Jews and Christians don't fare any better. :D
Big Bang and expanding universe theorems is 20th century science. Yet the Quran spoke, 1400 years ago, of that and countless other newly discovered scientific theories.
As for Epic of Gilgamesh, you are joking; I hope you are for your sake of your credibility.
And on my bubble, if it exist, it will take a more supported arguments than that to burst it.
As you've stated no specific verse, I have to assume you're referring to:
"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing."
If so, read on. The verses immediately after contradict entirely the notion that it is a reference to "the big bang" and are instead just another version of the creation myth not dissimilar to that of the Epic of Gilgamesh.
The Big Bang shock my faith in religion (Islam/Quran) and also brought me back to it.
To explain: when I studied Astrophysics (minored in it), I could not reconcile it with my primitive knowledge and almost zero understanding of the Quran (.5%) and I was in crisis for 10+ years. I accidently attended a lecture on Science and Quran and the verse you quoted griped. So started reading and researching and countless other scientific and non-scientific facts. Cont’d
"If you would have copy of the Quran (illustrated), I can just reference chapter and verse with my comments."
I have a digital copy, you can just reference if you like. Probably best to do it in a PM to me though. :)
I've got to say though mate, no disrespect, but I'm dubious. Because the verse I referenced, I maintain, *is not* a reference to the Big Bang. This is made clear by the verses directly after it.
Let me start by asking how what is the contradiction in this verse.
21:30 ARE, THEN, they who are bent on denying the truth not aware that the heavens and the earth were [once] one single entity, which We then parted asunder? and [that] We made out of water every living thing? Will they not, then, [begin to] believe?
The verse has another scientific fact, that life is impossible without water. NASA teams search for life on other planets by looking for water.
Now if accoutant starts talking and judging Astrophysics, how much crediblity would he have, especially if he never bathered to read the basics about. The first verse of the first Surah/Chapter in Quran issues a chalenge to the reader to find any thing wrong or contrdictory in any of its 600+ pages. Why do not Sam Harris and any of his elks take the chalenge. I did, but I could not find anything wrong or contradictory. Do not speak out of ignorance, read it then make your case.
Imagine: teaching a child that - right here - there's another world more real than this one, one which can claim not a particle of evidence in support, excepting only that we heard stories about it when we were children, stories which depended purely upon which culture we were born into. Imagine: one eastern Mediterranean bronze age fable out of the whole lot in our human pantheon - with no more credible evidence than any other in that lot - 'got it' better than all subsequent human thought.
islam is not violent dumb fool . islam just give u the right to defend urself against someone who attack u . islam is the most beautiful and peacful religion of all time . we muslim pray 5 times a day to get closer to god ... isnt that beautiful ??? by the way if u dont convert to islam , u will end up in hell so im advertising u , stop living like animal(eat,sleep,sex) and start looking for the truth . May my Lord and ur Lord guide u .salamaleikoum(peace be upon u)
@pcandlve you can NOT COUNT THE VIOLENCE SPREAD BY ISLAM IN THE NAME OF ALLA.200000000000000 PEOPLE HAS BEEN KILLED BY THIS EVIL CULT.IT IS CURSE ON HUMINITY.MOHHAMAD WAS A RAPIST AND TERRORIST.
it would have been nice to have talked about the ultra orthodox judaism..
just as fanatic...but atleast they don't go around killing non-jews......
hrantnano 2 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@hrantnano "ultra orthodox judaism..just as fanatic...but atleast they don't go around killing non-jews......"
Bullshit : Baruch Goldstein, Eden Natan-Zada, Yaakov Teitel, The Kingdom of Israel group, Gush Emunim Underground,,,
TomFynn 18 hours ago
Sam harris is a smart guy. Instead of just 'Buddhism', he cautiously used the word 'tibetan buddhism' to refer to specific group within groups and he seemed to think every words carefully before he speaks. Good job for a man with background in meditation - mindfulness maybe.
ekanipata 4 days ago
The difference is that Islam has no politics.A muslim must speak the truth irrespective of anything
111dudi 5 days ago
@111dudi On that basis Aayan Hirsi Ali would be a true Muslim. Ironic.
TomFynn 2 days ago
@111dudi
the truth is ...you have no choice...you must subjugate your intelligence to islamic nonesene...
hrantnano 2 days ago
@hrantnano Had you been a Muslim you would not have used abusive language,see the difference between muslims and you an infidel! It wont be a surprise if you answe me with even more abusive language,cos you ar used to.Thank Allah I am a proud muslim
111dudi 1 day ago
Reality around religious fundamentalism can be terribly grim.
Ebvardh 1 week ago
Seems like you always see atheist-theist debates, but I want to watch a theist-theist debate..
vdubs4life1964 1 week ago
@vdubs4life1964 It's terribly stupid, mate.
I've seen theist/theist debate and it doesn't go much farther than "My religion is better than yours; you're wrong because of the following set of shitty arguments I can't backup..."
Ebvardh 1 week ago
I'm speechless ..
NexisFilms 1 week ago
Mr. Sam Harris, for such supposedly intelligent man, you are awfully ignorant to believe that planes brought down the WTC. That's just as retarded as believing in talking snakes and a 5000 year old earth.
Myaucat 1 week ago
@Myaucat Even IF 9/11 was victim to some grand government conspiracy, Harris' point still stands because Islamic Extremists still did hijack planes, kill people on board with box cutters, and fly them into the towers. That fact is irregardless of whether or not the planes themselves caused the towers to fall.
DeathBringer769 1 week ago
@DeathBringer769
Violence against civilians should be condemned regardless of sources, not just from Muslims.
But, Sam (& others) selectively generalize & stereotype 1.6B Muslims for the actions of the far fringe.
Anyone with trace of integrity will be more balanced
Muslims did NOT kill 100+ Million in WWI, WWII, Vietnam, colonial wars, Stalin (a Jew) 30M Russians, Pol pot 2-5M, "israel" 60,000 Palestinians...etc
He mainly bashes Islam, 2nd Christianity & forgets Judaism ???
arraba99 1 week ago
@arraba99
In one sentence you state something true, that all people shouldn't be held responsible for what extremists do, and in the other you make a comparison that is truly idiotic.
The attacks and atrocities by islamists worldwide are done with the inspiration of Islam and IN THE NAME OF IT, whereas none of the wars you stated had a religious factor. If we apply your mindset to conflicts muslim are involved in that aren't religiously based, the blame on Islam increases greatly.
ogith 1 week ago
@ogith just a point of fact - Hitler started WW2 in the name of Christianity WITH the backing of the Vatican. If you read much of Mein Kempf and his speeches, he states very clearly that he is there to wipe away the infidels.
Regardless, Harris' point is that the moderate Christians make those things possible.
kamiakin5 1 week ago
@kamiakin5
Was Hitler's father not a Jew ?
arraba99 1 week ago
@arraba99 no, his father was not Jewish, he was Roman Catholic.
kamiakin5 1 week ago
@kamiakin5
his daughter married to a jew.
hrantnano 2 days ago
@hrantnano whose daughter? Adolf Hitler's father was a Roman Catholic. Adolf Hitler was a baptized Roman Catholic. Adolf Hitler had no children. I think many people now-a-days completely miscalculate how anti-Semitic the WORLD was during the 1930s. The KKK grew to its height of power in the 1920 and 30s targeting Jews. The 1924 Johnson Reed act virtually stopped the immigration of Jews to the US. antisemitic catholic taking power was supported by the Vatican. thought was Jews killed Jesus.
kamiakin5 2 days ago
@ogith
Are you such ignorant, have time to waste or just hopeless propagandist:
Zionist claim to Palestine is based a bogus G-d promise to Israelite, which even Zionists Khazars are not. Their here & now atrocities demolition of Palestinian homes, burning of fields & trees, targeting of Children all spelled out in Talmud:
Rabbi, Od Yosef Hai yeshiva, The King’s Torah: “..There is justification for killing babies if it is clear they will grow up to harm us..” published Nov. 9, 2009
arraba99 1 week ago
@arraba99
He "bashes" Islam and "ignores" the other religions (far more religions than just the abrahamic ones, and he mentions this), because none of the other religions have had comparable religious extremism to what Islam has in the here and now for hundreds of years, if ever.
Christians don't bomb embassies when the bible is burned. Jews don't decapitate captives while quoting the talmud. Jains don't target more moderate jains. Hindus don't suicide bomb crowds of nonbelievers.
ogith 1 week ago
@arraba99 I think Harris is fully aware of that, and I did not take away the same sentiment the he ignored other religions. However, Israel is a nation that is more than just Jewish....
From what I understood, Harris was saying that in the US, religious moderation (Christians btw) allows for extremists because they make it taboo to talk about religion. Which in turn, makes it hard to talk about the horrible attributes of certain religions. He mainly ignores Judaism because it is so small.
kamiakin5 1 week ago
@kamiakin5
Judaism may be small, but its instigated & documented violence over last century dwarfs that of Muslims & surpass Christians
Stalin, a Jew, killed 30 Millions Russain Christians
arraba99 1 week ago
@arraba99 Stalin studied at a Georgian Orthodox seminary - not Jewish.
kamiakin5 1 week ago
Sam Harris Criticize all religions,
abc18abc19 6 days ago
@arraba99 because he is a jew....but all those killings you mention were not done by religious teachings,,where as islam as a relgion caused all the barbaric attacks on sovereign nations and subjugated them to islam...jihad is prescribed in islam and islam only...to kill nonmuslims..no ther religion prescribes death to people of different religions..only islam....read the quarn..
hrantnano 2 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Listen to what this well educated and wise Rabbi say about Islam & "israel"
Check youtube: "Jewish Rabbi: Islam is religion of future"
@ogith listen and weep.
arraba99 1 week ago
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arraba99 1 week ago
Real motives of “War on Terror” F
Loser: Islam/Muslims are vilified & suffering; But pushed westerns to curiously study Quran, thus increase conversion to Islam. An unintended long term benefit.
Loser: Arabs, used to curtail their freedom even more; hundred of thousands of Iraqis killed.
Loser: Iraq was destroyed, without “war on terror”, it would be hard to justify invasion.
Loser: Americans: Lost thousands of soldiers; economy is shattered; erosion of privacy & freedom.
arraba99 1 week ago
Real motives of “War on Terror” E
Winner: Corporate America & its controlling elite – 50%+ Zionists with “israeli” connections
Winner: Bin laden, he get America to spend $3T and be distracted with the war, while others powers are building their economy.
Winner: Corrupt Arab regimes, as they used “War on Terror” to crack down on their opponents & consolidate their illegitimate power.
Winner: Iran, as it neutralized a strategic “enemy” (Iraq) & made it into an ally.
arraba99 1 week ago
Real motives of “War on Terror” D
6: Diminish individual freedoms for more control of people in preparations for trouble ahead –you have seen unprecedented police brutality against Occupy Wall street movement. More trouble & brutality to come.
Winners and Losers of “War on Terror”
Winner: “israel” having some of its “enemies” destroyed Iraq & Iran next. And also using war to justify its brutality against Palestinians & continue their occupation
arraba99 1 week ago
Real motives of “War on Terror” C
3: Corporate America control of energy fields in the Middle East, “israel” Zionist and/or friends own or controls most of these corporations
4: Use war to increase “defence” spending for years to come with ending of cold war, another enemy and war had to be created.
5: use war to increase homeland security spending (airports, borders, buildings…etc) billions of dollars to corporations
arraba99 1 week ago
Real motives of “War on Terror” B
IV American Zionist NeoCons & ‘israel” were urging USA to attack Iraq & 6 Muslim/Arab countries since 1991 (check clean break), well before 9/11; but why?
The motives behind “War on Terror”
1: War is big business & a lot of people & corporations benefit from it , especially elitists (50%+ Zionist) & military corp. & lobby;
2: Have America fight “israel’s” wars for it & weaken its perceived “enemies”
arraba99 1 week ago
Real motives of “War on Terror” A
First some facts:
I: Taliban & Al-Qada (of 9/11) were created & funded by America & ally “Saudi Rulers”
II: CIA warned of plot to attack America well before 9/11; & Bin Laden could be captured &/or killed 10 years ago; but nthing done.
Check YouTube, Michael Scheuer, in charge of the CIA unit for tracking Bin Laden.
III: Bernard Lewis, a Zionist, promoted clash of civilization (West/Islam) since 1989; 12 years before 9/11
arraba99 1 week ago
@arraba99
This is not only about 9/11. This is about it, and the thousands upon hundreds of thousands of attacks worldwide since and before that.
It's about islamists in Nigeria charging into churches and gunning down people. Islamists suicide bombing people in india. About hostage-taking in Russia. Ongoing slavery in Mauritiania. Rapes in europe. Pedophilia in middle-east. etc
Islam has a negative influence WORLDWIDE that you can't just ignore by saying "IT'S THE USA/JEWS FAULT!"
ogith 1 week ago 2
@arraba99
Every time you ignore this, every time you refuse to respond to the fact of this global negative activity expressly stated as in the name of the religion, by trying to blame it on the jews or some vague conspiracy, you are only doing yourself and your precious religion even further disfavors.
Across nations, cultures, races, social strata, educational divides, Islam manages to inspire people to outrageous act of barbarity, violence, and human suppression
This is a problem
ogith 1 week ago 2
@ogith
You know you are distorting facts; you are either hired agent or hate blinded Zionist. As despite refuting your claims, you keep on bashing Islam.
But the more, evangelist, Zionists, Fox news … bash Islam, the more it is spreading in West - 30-50,000 yearly converts in America & 100 daily in Britain.
Many converts state: Islam bashing led them to Islam; they start researching it to find out how bad it was; they find the opposite & subsequently convert.
So, in away, thanks.
arraba99 1 week ago
@arraba99
The world is larger than the yanks or the jews, and you are doing yourself a disfavor for believing the tripe you just posted.
News sources report about converts to ease the burden of the moderate muslim, to portray them in a much-needed positive light due to Islam's reputation. It is rarely mentioned how many people leave islam because it would be counter to the agenda of these news sources.
In Africa alone, 6 million muslims deconvert from Islam, est. 200 000 in the UK.
ogith 1 week ago
@arraba99
The issue of Islam's numbers is muddled due that most muslim nations forbid muslims from leaving Islam, and the fact that the same West you brand as evil allow countless muslims into their countries means that ex-muslims are afraid of being subjected to violence by their muslim neighbors
And I'll assume that you are unaware that 75% of converts in the USA leave Islam
Whatever. None of this changes the fact that Islamists cause harm globally, wherever Islam has a presence.
ogith 1 week ago
Richard Dawkins “Hinduism and Buddhism offer much more sophisticated worldviews (or philosophies) and I see nothing wrong with these religions.”
Nokapp23 1 week ago
what a great man Go Sam Harris
reallymustiwtf 2 weeks ago
Sam Harris exposes islam yet again for what it really is, hateful, murderous,poisonous, intolerant, misogynistic, and cancerous. Islam hates the West and is intent on trying to destroy us. We must stand up for ourselves and cut out this religious cancer in our midst. It baffles me why all these deluded fools can believe a childlike fable written by a power crazed paedophile.
haTreesong 3 weeks ago
The Noblest of all 3:
What the greats say about Mohammad:
The famous English Playwrite George Bernard Shaw, said: “ the world much needs a man with Mohammad’s bright thinking, if a man like Mohammad were to assume, the rule of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems bring peace and happiness to it”
The famous Russian writer Leo Tolstoy Said: Believes that Mohammad’s religion will prevail over the whole world. As it is in conformity with mind and wisdom.
arraba99 3 weeks ago
@arraba99
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world" - Winston Churchill
ogith 3 weeks ago
"religion is the opiate of the masses" - carl marx
MountAnalogue 2 weeks ago
@MountAnalogue Actually, Marx did not write that, though he did express something similar in the introduction to his 1843 treatise, "Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right." A more accurate rendering would read, "[Religion] is the opium of the people."
writersblock26 2 weeks ago
@writersblock26
my point remains
MountAnalogue 2 weeks ago
@MountAnalogue True.
writersblock26 2 weeks ago
Noblest of all 2:
What intelligent People say about the noblest of all
Michael Hart, American
Writer of the book “100 a ranking of the most influential Persons in History” ranked Prophet Mohammad at the top. He says: “… he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels. It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influence single figure in human history.”
arraba99 3 weeks ago
@arraba99
I've seen that ranking used as some kind of positive title in Muhammad's Honor, but realize that it is a measure of influence rather than one of moral clout or qualitative truth. Hitler, Stalin, and many other dictators are on that list for the same reasons that Muhammad are, but as most of them failed they are far lower on said list. Muhammad was a warmonger, a bandit, a slaver, and a pedophile who created a religion that revolved around him, and he was successful at it.
ogith 3 weeks ago
@GenghisCohen1 Actually, it is neither naive, nor incorrect. Muslims adopted suicide bombing long after the Japanese and the LTTE. During the Iran-Iraq war actually. Nothing about Israel. What Sam is referring to is the motivation and passion for inflicting violence that seems to permeate Islam. I am an optimist though. Islam is about 1400 years old, and when Christianity was 1400 years old, they were burning people alive. This is just a phase and it will pass. Expect an Islamic renaissance :)
mapo12 3 weeks ago
@mapo12 what's a compelling evidence for an existence of such periods in a history of religions? I would think there was a driving force in an attempt to turn dark ages into renaissance, and we should try to mimic it. I think there are no cycles.
MaybeIce 3 weeks ago
"O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
Quran (9:123)
yeah, some religion of peace
MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
@MountAnalogue
Quran: 9:123 “O you who have attained to faith! Fight against those deniers of the truth who are near you, and let them find you adamant ; and know that .God is with those who are conscious of Him"
This key phrase in this verse is “who are near you” it is referring to the unbelievers who fought, killed and tortured Muslims some for ten years before they Muslims were allowed to fight them back.
Self-defence is not in contradiction with peaceful principles.
arraba99 3 weeks ago
@arraba99 "Self-defence is not in contradiction with peaceful principles."
Nice attempt at double-speak. Didn't work for the preemptive strikes of George II., won't work for you.
TomFynn 3 weeks ago
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MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
@TomFynn
@TomFynn
Fighting back in self defence is not the same as pre-emptive strike ! I hope you know the huge difference so I do not need to explain it.
arraba99 3 weeks ago
@arraba99 Fighting back? With suicide attacks on busy market places *in their own countries*? By killing 3000 innocent civilians by flying planes into buildings?
You know the other one? With the bells on?
TomFynn 3 weeks ago
@TomFynn
You are diverting the point. Islam doe not permit attacks against civilians! And it is un-Islamic. All Muslim Countries condemned it!
Furthermore it was done (if true) by minuscule minority.
But what do you say about dropping 1000 1b bombs on Iraqi civilians (250-500,000 killed). And it was done by Western countries not fringe group.
What is your moral code says about that?
arraba99 3 weeks ago
@arraba99 Nice attempt at the No-True-Scotsman-Fallacy. Won't work though.
PS: You do know that the number of dead by Muslim suicide attacks is greater that those by the US Air Force?
TomFynn 3 weeks ago
@TomFynn
As true of your bigoted ilk, you are good at pointing fingers at the slightest of other people’s imperfections while oblivious to your savagery in Iraq (250,000 killed), Vietnam (burning children with Napalm agent orange) and first to use Nuclear Bombs on Japanese civilians.
Let me tell you bastard! The blood of one single Iraqi child is worth all your kind.
Your degenerate and debased moral code is being exposed day by day and it will catch up with you.
arraba99 3 weeks ago
@arraba99 "The blood of one single Iraqi child is worth all your kind." Ah, I hear the "religion of peace" speaking up.
"slightest of other people’s imperfections" Slightest? This is reality calling. It's your wake-up call.
TomFynn 3 weeks ago
@TomFynn
You are still sidestepping the questions.
If you expect Muslims to condemn 9/11 regardless who did it, and they did out of their own moral standards!
What is your and the West moral code say about the killing of 250,000 (mostly civilians) Iraqis killed by America/West? And who in the West condemned it?
Can you not try to skirt the issue again!
arraba99 3 weeks ago
@arraba99
stop trying to defend an iron age brain-washing technique.faithful muslims (al-qaeda) said this: "You infidels and despotic, we will continue our jihad and never stop until God avails us to chop your necks and raise the fluttering banner of monotheism when God's rule is established governing all people and nations,
MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
@arraba99 ... {continued} "you and the West are doomed as you can see from the defeat in Iraq, Afghanistan,elsewhere ... We will break up the cross, spill the liquor and impose jizya then the only thing acceptable is a conversionor the sword.""
-faithful muslims
MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
@arraba99 "who in the West condemned it?" Read the fucking newspapers.
TomFynn 3 weeks ago
@TomFynn
Your vulgarity is NOT a substitute nor a convincing answer!
I have read Newspapers daily for last 20 years; I have not seen mainstream western condemnation of American slaughter of 250,000 Iraqis (mostly civilians).
As for 9/11, all Muslim countries & mainstream organization condemned it.
Now tell me:
1- Do you yourself condemn American slaughter of 250k Iraqis?
2- Can you list Western governments or mainstream organizations that condemned American slaughter of Iraqis.
arraba99 2 weeks ago
@arraba99 1 - I don't give a rat's ass.
2 - Officially they all did. But secretly they couldn't give a flying fuck either.
TomFynn 2 weeks ago
@arraba99
Not only is that number incorrect, but any and all statistics on the deathtoll in the Iraq war will be general ones, which include those who lost their lives due to "insurgent" violence, focused US attacks, and outright mistakes. The real number is somewhere around 150-170k, and what constitutes civilian/insurgent deaths is supremely muddied due to the proven fact that lies are often used to make a killed militant seem like a civilian, creating a martyr out of their death.
ogith 2 weeks ago
@arraba99
I don't know what rock you've been hiding under, but just about every single western nation had protests to varying degrees against the iraqi war, seeing it as meaningless and utterly wasteful. You will find more than a few official news and governmental sources decrying the war, but if you're looking for people who "condemned the slaughter", then forget it.
It's a fallacious, propaganda-based, statement.
ogith 2 weeks ago
@ogith
Now, “rocks” aside, we are getting somewhere.
Yes I am looking for government & mainstream groups of West to “condemn the slaughter” of Iraqis by America; as you expected (and they did) Muslims to condemn 911, regardless of perpetrators.
9/11 caused the loss of 3,000+ innocent life; While Iraq's invasion caused the loss of vastly more innocent lives -(50,000; 100,000; 200,000;, 250,000) whatever you fancy !!
And why should I “forget” equal indignation at the loss of life?
arraba99 2 weeks ago
@arraba99
You shouldn't forget indignation at the loss of lives. What you should forget is anyone taking credit for any "slaughter", as the rhetoric behind such statements try to paint the deaths of iraqis as solely due to US-forces and bear the claim that the deaths of civilians was a conscious aim by them, which it only was for the various islamic forces who then (and still today) target places where more moderate muslims gather.
ogith 2 weeks ago
@ogith
You said: "...as the rhetoric behind such statements try to paint the deaths of Iraqis as solely due to US-forces and bear the claim that the deaths of civilians was a conscious aim by them ..."
And you believe that tens of thousand of Iraqis were killed unintentionally? The America army must have serious “aiming” problem!
Have you NOT heard about he endemic unprovoked killing of civilians (e.g Haditha Massacre); Or indiscriminate bombing of villages, towns & Neighbourhoods.
arraba99 1 week ago
@ogith
You said: "...as the rhetoric behind such statements try to paint the deaths of Iraqis as solely due to US-forces and bear the claim that the deaths of civilians was a conscious aim by them ..."
And you believe that tens of thousand of Iraqis were killed unintentionally? The America army must have serious “aiming” problem!
Have you NOT heard about he endemic unprovoked killing of civilians (e.g Haditha Massacre); Or indiscriminate bombing of villages, towns & Neighbourhoods.
arraba99 1 week ago
@arraba99
Instances of violence like the haditha massacre are in no way "endemic" to the american or allied war effort, and these men were tried by these very same forces for their crimes.
ogith 1 week ago
@arraba99
Yes, there is a COMPARISON to be found with Islam.
We have the 1400 year slave trade it was involved in, and which nations like Saudi Arabia (the very heart of Islam, in certain respects) only ended in the 1960s, after western nations put pressure on them. The orgy of violence that was the muslim expansion, a period of war, slavery, and atrocities that eventually came to spark the Crusades. Then there's the occupation of India, which cost 80 million lives, etc.
ogith 1 week ago
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@arraba99
And your talk about WW1&2 smacks of not only of ignorance of history, but also of logical fallacy. Not only were muslims involved to varying degrees in both wars, but the wars themselves were not explicitly or even implicitly due to religious grounds. And if we are to count these as christian offenses simply because christians were involved, we must then do so with wars muslims were involved in that were not due to Islam, which pumps up the islamic death toll even more.
ogith 1 week ago
@arraba99
Furthermore, your claim of deliberate and conscious targeting of civilians is not only ridiculous, it is utterly baseless. Even the likes of wikileaks, which has and continues to leak information from the military itself, shows no sign of such a genocidal conspiracy. This is pure propaganda on your part, most likely from islamic sources with either glorify or give excuses for the terrorists
Civilians have always suffered the worst in wars, this is why war is so abhorrent.
ogith 1 week ago
@arraba99
Also, muslim violence is a global thing. It is in the middle east, in europe, in africa, in asia, etc. Everywhere Islam is, atrocity is inevitable.
Islam is a problem. Fact.
ogith 1 week ago
@ogith
American Atrocities, Iraq:
Check these few YouTube titles & if you have an ounce of morality. You will shut.
Road of Death in Iraq
Iraq - The Hidden Story: American Atrocities
US soldiers come clean about atrocities in Iraq under President Bush
Torture of Iraqi children by coalition soldiers
US Soldiers are having fun by shooting live rounds at angry prisoners in Camp Bucca, Iraq.
US War Crimes- By the US army
And the bastards keep crying “crocodile tears” over 9/11
arraba99 1 week ago
@arraba99
Let's just for the sake of argument skim over all these and consider them true.
How does this in any way either nullify or excuse the fact that Islamists are not only doing the very same thing in Iraq, but are using this kind and more violence, subsuming peoples rights, crippling education/science/social values/etc in Iran, Pakistan, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Mauritania, Sudan, India, Russia, and just about everywhere else Islam has a foothold?
Islam is a GLOBAL problem.
ogith 1 week ago
@ogith
You are still trying to divert from the issue we started with:
If you expect Muslims to condemn the 9/11 (hwich they did), regardless of the FAR FRINGE perpetrators! Why are YOU and mainstream WEST not condemning the vastly more criminal act of killing 250,000 Iraqis committed by MAIN stream western leadership? Which I proved them to you with Youtube videos.
arraba99 1 week ago
@arraba99
Already responded to you regarding this, and you have made it abundantly clear that you are a stereotypical muslim conspiracy theorist who couldn't care less about the damage Islam is doing worldwide.
You fail to get it through your thick head that this goes beyond any single one nation and just how many atrocities Islam currently is involved in.
Keep making excuses for terrorists worldwide by arbitrarily blaming the yanks/jews, see how much it helps the view on muslims.
ogith 1 week ago 2
@arraba99
You are doing what many islamist sympathizers do, and I find it disingenuous as all hell
You equate the atrocities of Islam, a cross-national, cross-racial, religion, with that of the USA, a single nation. Or rather, you compare a religion to individual or groups of truly/potentially rogue soldiers, who if (often WHEN) caught are reprimanded severely. This is not a matter of "USA vs Islam". Only propagandizing islamists claim it is. Islam is a problem wherever it is.
ogith 1 week ago
@arraba99
Furthermore, that list of movies you posted in no way worked in favor of your argument.
Most of those, when given looks into their context, revealed them to be indeed BAD, but not the horrors you would have us believe. And "US War Crimes- By the US army" in particular was a damn joke: A slideshow of scenes lacking any and all context to inspirational music, which repeated several scenes or where from a singular instance (which was later punished) of isolated misconduct.
ogith 1 week ago
@arraba99
If you hate the USA, that is you issue, but do not try to twist this into some kind of defense for islamic violence in its entirety, because it is not. In Europe, Africa, Middle-East, Asia, and even the Americas, Islam is involved in a disproportionate amounts of violent acts with clear ties to religious motivation.
Since you like vids, here:
Torture of Christian kids to become MUSLIMS
Videos on Islamic Violence against women
Atlas Shrugs: Islamic Jihad Worldwide
ogith 1 week ago
@arraba99
And seriously, man.
Even the slightest search on the matter will not only show you a list of over 100+ documented resisters to the Iraq War, but also the fact of the protests the world over. "between January 3 and April 12, 2003, 36 million people across the globe took part in almost 3,000 protests against the Iraq war"
9/11 was just one instance of the violence endemic to Islam which goes on globally, and no even close to comparable protests are being made by Muslims.
ogith 2 weeks ago
@ogith
Note: I am not referring to people, who are largely decent & fair minded, when they know the facts, which is rare
America invaded Iraq without cause; so they are fully responsible for ensuing destructions & killings. Previous question remains?
As for “violence of Islam”, who killed 100M in: ”WWI, WWII, Vietnam, South Korea, Atomic Bombs on Japan Civilians, Americas, Indonesia, Iran (1953), Colonial wars: Asia, Africa & ME, Palestine…
Honestly, is there a contrast with Islam?
arraba99 1 week ago
@arraba99
Islam does not permit attacks against civilians as it defines the term, not as we do.
A civilian under Islamic rule is anyone who is either a muslim or who is a jizya paying dhimmi. Anyone outside of that definition is free to attack, enslave, and kill. The standard procedure in Muhammad's attacks and in innumerable muslim attacks since has been killing all the men and male children, and enslaving the rest
Also, most of the "good" verses are abrogated by the war-like ones
ogith 3 weeks ago
@ogith
You are clearly speaking out of ignorance or you are maliciously out to bash Islam.
Either way stew in your vile filled heart: Islam spreading and getting stronger by its truth and teaching.
Read your corrupted Talmud/Bible and you will find that teaching in them not in the Quran
arraba99 3 weeks ago
@arraba99 "My iron age screed is better than your iron age screed!" يالا افتح عينيك يا أخي
abuliberalee 3 weeks ago
To claim that Islam is a religion of peace is to be either incredibly ignorant of what it speaks of and how it has been used, or to be consciously deceptive in an effort to dissuade scrutiny into its workings.
In every last country that Islam has sat it roots the social, moral, and scientific development pretty much halted. Almost all of the good verses in the quran/hadith are either taken horribly out of context, or are abrogated by later verses that urge the believers to slaughter.
ogith 3 weeks ago
@arraba99
the way in which islam defines as civilians is only islamic people. it is eltist to the point of wanting to kill people of all other faiths
MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
its funny lol theres a group in facebook "insult allah" (again) and the most of them are like burn in hell mofu and stuff and they are saying :" our religon isnt violent, islam means peace! die motherf***er" xD
DrDaddy1337 3 weeks ago
@DrDaddy1337
I wish you do not use profanity. We do not need it. If you have facts and right on your side, you do not need cursing. If you must, use harsh words in response to their profanity.
They use cursing & profanity when they run out rational, reason & intellect to escape from being cornered with facts.
It is no way to make a point.
arraba99 3 weeks ago
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funny... come to china and look your self how they control everything and how big is this country
alsanabani 3 weeks ago
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@GenghisCohen1
Apology for unintended sounding condescension, at last an Atheist with knowledge, reason and integrity that sees this video for what it is. This has been sorely lacking on this video's comments.
I prefer a well reasoned argument even if against my view, over a sloppy one that may supports it. Intelligence breeds intelligence and the inverse is true.
arraba99 1 month ago
Where were the suicide bombers before the creation of the state of Israel? Out and out ridiculous statement at about 2:30 to 2:34. Where are the Tibetan monk suicide bombers? A better question might be who was invading Bhutan before China was invading Tibet? Or how about why is this Dali Lama such a seemingly nice guy when the others were whore mongers and crooks like the popes? I am an atheist and must say that I do not support this extraordinarily naive ideology in this video.
GenghisCohen1 1 month ago
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arraba99 1 month ago
Reason can not exist without knowledge
If someone knocks down science without knowledge, we call him ignorant. Do not knock down Quran without knowledge. If you are atheist (or not) and claim reason; the first dictate of REASON is to know.
Do not knock it down based on Hollywood & media sound bites & the likes of Sam who admits to never reading the Quran or commentators who twist things for their own agenda.
Check all American atheist Dr. Laurence Brown (Episode 3) search for truth
arraba99 1 month ago
@arraba99 Knowledge? In a 1400 year old book cobbled together by semi-illiterate goat herders? No thanks. I'll stick with science books.
TomFynn 3 weeks ago
@TomFynn
This is you ego talking, but suite yourself, it is your loss.
But, the goat herder (and proud of it) was NOT semi-illiterate; he was completely illiterate – could not read or write.
Which beg the question: How and from where did he come up with the Quran, a masterpiece of eloquence, knowledge and facts, some only discovered in the last few decades.
Note: The human civilization did start in the 20th century. It has been going on for at least 5,000 + years.
arraba99 3 weeks ago
@arraba99 How? Easy: They made it up. Wishful thinking does the rest. As with the crap that Nostradamus was spouting. Bullshit that people *wanted* to be true, so they read into it whatever they wanted. Such wishful thinking is very old. 5000+ years at least.
TomFynn 3 weeks ago
@arraba99
the quran is hardly a masterpiece. it a manual for mind control littered with tales of genocide, rape, murder and torture. I hardly call that eloquent.
MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
@MountAnalogue
Do you care to cite your evidence? Or are they jsut Sam or Fox sound bites.
arraba99 3 weeks ago
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@arraba99
"O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
Quran (9:123)
MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
@arraba99
(5:33) It is a just recompense for those who make war on God and His apostle43, and endeavour to spread corruption on earth, that they are being slain in great numbers, or crucified in great numbers, or have, in result of their perverseness, their hands and feet cut off in great numbers44, or are being (entirely) banished from (the face of) the earth: such is their ignominy in this world45. But in the life to come (yet more) awesome suffering awaits them.
MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
@MountAnalogue quran 5:33
MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
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arraba99 3 weeks ago
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@MountAnalogue
5:33: I think the verse speak for itself as it refers fighting those who make war on Islam.
Self-defence does not contradict peaceful principles.
arraba99 3 weeks ago
@arraba99 Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
@MountAnalogue
2:216 “ FIGHTING is ordained for you, even though it be hateful to you;…” This verse relates to an incident when group of Muslims were attacked by unbelievers during the 4 months during which Arabs were prohibited to fight. Muslims did not want to fight, so it was revealed to say you must fight back & if you do not, there may be worse consequences
Notice how fighting even in defence is described as hateful to Muslim (& non), but one must do it to prevent worse
arraba99 3 weeks ago
@arraba99 Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are ruthless against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"
MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
@arraba99 quran permits rape:
Quran 2:223 “your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like ...”
MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
@MountAnalogue
2:222 “AND THEY will ask thee about [woman's] monthly period. Say: "It is a vulnerable condition. Keep, therefore, aloof from women during their monthly courses… and when they are cleansed, go in unto them as God has bidden you to do…”
2:223 “Your wives are your tilth; go, then, unto your tilth as you may desire…”
Verse 222 was to prohibit intercourse during women period & prohibit anal sex, & 223 to allow all else. Thus go unto your tilth as desired. NOT rape.
arraba99 3 weeks ago
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@arraba99
ok, you've shown that maybe i took some of these quranic ayats out of context, however...
Christ and Buddha were far more peaceful than Muhammad the extortionist, warrior and pedophile. Some prophet, huh? Look what is being done all over the world in the name of "the religion of peace": 9/11, 7/7, the assasination of theo van gogh, the slaughter of christian nigerians and thai buddhists by muslims who invaded their lands.
MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
@arraba99
meccan verse
"Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." Quran (25:52)
MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
@MountAnalogue
25:51 “Now had We so willed. We could have [con¬tinued as before and] raised up a [separate] warner [prophet] in every single community”
25:52 “hence, do not defer to [the likes and dislikes of] those who deny the truth, but strive hard against them, by means of this [divine writ], with utmost striving”
Verse 51 says G-d could send a prophet to each town (as before), but we have sent you to all, thus 52, be steadfast to all & do not defer (obey literally) to them
arraba99 3 weeks ago
@arraba99
Luke 6:27-36
Jesus said:
[27] "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, [28] bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. [29] If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. [30] Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. [31] Do to others as you would have them do to you.
MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
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arraba99 3 weeks ago
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@MountAnalogue
Bible
Luke 12:51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword
Explain?
Quran, 5:32 ..if anyone slays a human being-unless it be [in punishment] for murder or for spreading corruption on earth-it shall be as though he had slain all mankind; whereas, if anyone saves a life, it shall be as though he had saved the lives of all mankind
arraba99 3 weeks ago
@arraba99
I cant explain the bible to you as im not a christian. I am simply anti-islamic and pointing out how jesus and buddha were far better examples of honor and virtue than the pedophile murderer muhammad (piss be upon him)
MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
@MountAnalogue
Do you really think that your vile heart, filthy mouth & apparent infantile intellect that resort to insult instead reason count in the scheme of things!
There is what intelligent People say about the noblest of all:
The French philosopher, Lamartine said: ” Mohammad is the Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Warrior, Conqueror of Desires/Fantasies in all standards by which greatness is measured, we may well ask: is there any man greater than Mohammad?!
arraba99 3 weeks ago
@arraba99
“Hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love; this is the eternal rule.”
- The Buddha
... between christ and buddha, is islam really THE religion of peace? given these passages from the suttas and the gospels
MountAnalogue 3 weeks ago
Just 15825 views? it needs more!
1237fa 1 month ago
@tla123456 Agreed.
SearchZoneGaming 1 month ago
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MUHAMMED'S EXAMPLE IS STRICTLY FOLLOWED BY MUSLIMS. THAT IS WHY MUSLIMS KILL IN THE NAME OF GOD. IF YOU READ THE QURAN, THE HADITHS YOU'LL SEE THAT MUHAMMED KILLED, LOOTED, TOOK WOMEN AS SEX CAPTIVES, 33:50-52, TOOK ONE FIFTH OF THE BOOTY LIKE A BANDIT, 8:1, 8:41, MARRIED AICHA WHEN SHE WAS 6 AND PENETRATED HER WHEN SHE WAS 9, ETC. MUHAMMED KILLED APOSTATES, STONED ADULTERERS AND PREACHED JIHAD OR AGGRESSION TO EXPAND ISLAM AND TOLD MUSLIMS TO FIGHT TILL ISLAM CONQUERS THE WORLD, 9:29-33
DictaduraNo123 1 month ago
Spot on Sam. Tell it like it is.
Daveyboyroy 1 month ago
@malikidmc no, fucking WRONG. There is no "faith" put in scientists, that's the difference between science and religion. Science examines the arguments, whether or not they make sense, their validity. Relative morality concerns itself with REAL human well-being, in THIS life. Religious claims are taken at face value on the basis of "faith" because that's all you have. You cannot prove or disprove any religious claim, by nature. Russel's teapot.
fauxx82 1 month ago
Read the Quran. Muslim’s holy book with an open mind so at least you can speak out of knowledge. People judge the Quran based on their knowledge of Torah and the Bible. The Quran which was revealed 1400 years ago, speaks of the Big Bang, the expanding universe, Red Dwarfs, Water being basic component of every livening thing, detailed description of embryonic development …etc. all of which ware not known till the 20th century. This is why so many western scientist converted to Islam.
arraba99 1 month ago
@arraba99
Bud, it's a scam. Whether or not you want to believe it is up to you, but please don't blow shit up.
TheSonorama21 1 month ago
@TheSonorama21
I agree, This whole Sam's book and non-sense is scam to for war mongering against muslims and to sell some books along the way.
arraba99 1 month ago
@arraba99
"The Quran which was revealed 1400 years ago, speaks of the Big Bang, the expanding universe, Red Dwarfs, Water being basic component of every livening thing...all of which ware not known till the 20th century"
LOL! Aristotle, and other greek scientists, wrote about all of these subjects 2000+ years before the invention of the Quran. Mohammed and friends were late to the party by multiple millenia!
"This is why so many western scientist converted to Islam."
Ha ha ha! Idiot...
threewiseman1 1 month ago
@threewiseman1
" Greek scientists wrote about these [Big Bang, Expanding Universe, Red Dwarfs ..] 2000+ years ...]
I know about Greek scientist work, but it seems you know something that human history of science and scientist do not know. Can you enlighten us with your references; if true I would like to correct my perception.
arraba99 1 month ago
@arraba99
"Can you enlighten us with your references; if true I would like to correct my perception."
Glady. Read:
A History of Astronomy from Thales to Kepler, by John Louis Emil Dreyer.
A History of Ancient Mathematical Astronomy, by Otto Neugebauer.
I'm also reading a book by William Ritter, called Darwin and the Golden Rule, which details Aristotles work covering the development of lifeforms. It's astounding how accurate he was.
threewiseman1 1 month ago
@threewiseman1
The references you are making regarding history of astronomy speak of old traditional Greek Astrology mixed with philosophy who had very important work, but theorised that earth was the center of the universe. This theory was debunked by Fakhr al-Din al-Razi (12th century) who theorized of millions of universes each more massive than our own.
Muslim founded empirical sciences which they applied to astronomy and led to significant advances in astronomy. Cont’d
arraba99 1 month ago
@arraba99
Also of interest to you might be translations of the Epic of Gilgamesh. It references the writers version of the beginning of the universe, and it is extraordinarily similar to the account given in the Quran, (aside from the pagan imagery, a monotheistic religion wouldn't stand for such nonsense, of course). But the general sequence of events is the same. The epic was written around 2750 B.C. A *long* time before the Quran.
Sorry to burst your bubble, mate, but this is history.
threewiseman1 1 month ago
@threewiseman1
Cont...
Muslim astronomers introduced exact empirical observations, experimental techniques, and empirical testing by Ibn al-Shatir. They separated Aristotelian physics from astronomy (Ibn al-Haytham) & others leading to development of astronomical physics.
The point is Muslim astronomy and astronomers were significantly more advanced than the Greeks, neither Greeks nor the Muslim spoke of Big Bang and expanding universe. Read your references carefully. Cont’d
arraba99 1 month ago
@arraba99
"The point is Muslim astronomy and astronomers were significantly more advanced than the Greeks"
Certainly, I fully agree. But are we talking about scholars, or an Allah-inspired Mohammed who gave all of this knowledge to his followers via the Quran?
Because you just don't have the verses to back up your claims.
threewiseman1 1 month ago
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@threewiseman1
Cont…
I will happy to quote you the verses relating to some of these facts later to support my arguments. If you would have copy of the Quran (illustrated), I can just reference chapter and verse with my comments. As if I quote the text, it will take a lot of space, But I will do that , gradually if needed. Cont’d
arraba99 1 month ago
@arraba99
If it's any consolation, the Epic of Gilgamesh adds heavy credence to the notion that the "Origin of the Universe" books in the Old Testament were basically forgeries of myths that had been propagated throughout the Fertile Crescent for centuries before it was written, so the Jews and Christians don't fare any better. :D
threewiseman1 1 month ago
@threewiseman1
Cont…
Big Bang and expanding universe theorems is 20th century science. Yet the Quran spoke, 1400 years ago, of that and countless other newly discovered scientific theories.
As for Epic of Gilgamesh, you are joking; I hope you are for your sake of your credibility.
And on my bubble, if it exist, it will take a more supported arguments than that to burst it.
arraba99 1 month ago
@arraba99
As you've stated no specific verse, I have to assume you're referring to:
"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing."
If so, read on. The verses immediately after contradict entirely the notion that it is a reference to "the big bang" and are instead just another version of the creation myth not dissimilar to that of the Epic of Gilgamesh.
threewiseman1 1 month ago
@threewiseman1
The Big Bang shock my faith in religion (Islam/Quran) and also brought me back to it.
To explain: when I studied Astrophysics (minored in it), I could not reconcile it with my primitive knowledge and almost zero understanding of the Quran (.5%) and I was in crisis for 10+ years. I accidently attended a lecture on Science and Quran and the verse you quoted griped. So started reading and researching and countless other scientific and non-scientific facts. Cont’d
arraba99 1 month ago
@arraba99
"If you would have copy of the Quran (illustrated), I can just reference chapter and verse with my comments."
I have a digital copy, you can just reference if you like. Probably best to do it in a PM to me though. :)
I've got to say though mate, no disrespect, but I'm dubious. Because the verse I referenced, I maintain, *is not* a reference to the Big Bang. This is made clear by the verses directly after it.
But look, shoot away, I'll see what you've got...
threewiseman1 1 month ago
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arraba99 1 month ago
@threewiseman1
Let me start by asking how what is the contradiction in this verse.
21:30 ARE, THEN, they who are bent on denying the truth not aware that the heavens and the earth were [once] one single entity, which We then parted asunder? and [that] We made out of water every living thing? Will they not, then, [begin to] believe?
The verse has another scientific fact, that life is impossible without water. NASA teams search for life on other planets by looking for water.
arraba99 1 month ago
I completely agree
peace love and harmony from Palestine!
CrayZDude2 1 month ago
Now if accoutant starts talking and judging Astrophysics, how much crediblity would he have, especially if he never bathered to read the basics about. The first verse of the first Surah/Chapter in Quran issues a chalenge to the reader to find any thing wrong or contrdictory in any of its 600+ pages. Why do not Sam Harris and any of his elks take the chalenge. I did, but I could not find anything wrong or contradictory. Do not speak out of ignorance, read it then make your case.
arraba99 1 month ago
Fuck the Jains and buddhist too!
TheMrgoku1985 1 month ago
"It is possible to be so well educated that you can build a nuclear bomb, and to still think you're going to get the 72 virgins in paradise"
No truer words.
Aldridge517 1 month ago 12
Totally accurate comments and extremely well stated.
Astonyshing 1 month ago
Where is the rest?
zevon1964 1 month ago
Imagine: teaching a child that - right here - there's another world more real than this one, one which can claim not a particle of evidence in support, excepting only that we heard stories about it when we were children, stories which depended purely upon which culture we were born into. Imagine: one eastern Mediterranean bronze age fable out of the whole lot in our human pantheon - with no more credible evidence than any other in that lot - 'got it' better than all subsequent human thought.
bluygs 1 month ago 2
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There is no God but Aladdin
FreeFromWar 1 month ago
islam is not violent dumb fool . islam just give u the right to defend urself against someone who attack u . islam is the most beautiful and peacful religion of all time . we muslim pray 5 times a day to get closer to god ... isnt that beautiful ??? by the way if u dont convert to islam , u will end up in hell so im advertising u , stop living like animal(eat,sleep,sex) and start looking for the truth . May my Lord and ur Lord guide u .salamaleikoum(peace be upon u)
pcandlve 2 months ago
@pcandlve you can NOT COUNT THE VIOLENCE SPREAD BY ISLAM IN THE NAME OF ALLA.200000000000000 PEOPLE HAS BEEN KILLED BY THIS EVIL CULT.IT IS CURSE ON HUMINITY.MOHHAMAD WAS A RAPIST AND TERRORIST.
ASHOK251058 1 month ago
@ASHOK251058 Jokes on you, there haven't even been 200 trillion people on this planet.
ScientificExploits 1 month ago
@ScientificExploits figures may not be correct. but just watch "ideots guide to islam"on you tube. open your eyes and think yourself.
ASHOK251058 1 month ago