Another time I was spanked was for refusing to do as I was told. I was told to clean my room and I just simply said "no". What I learned was that my parents words were to be followed. It is not until I grew older that I understood why reasoning would not work. The idea of following my parents words because they cumulatively make me a better person is too complex of an idea for reason. It is odd because I never felt hate toward my parents except when they used timeouts.
I was spanked for various things. I will say that I benefited from it in that it forced me to do act in a way that eventually molded my character today. For example. I was once spanked for climbing onto the neighbors rooftop. At the time it was beyond my scope of understanding how I could hurt myself. Sure I knew that I might fall by my judgment was simply not developed enough to understand what that may entail.
Mr. Babblings, you have more perfectly articulated the argument against corporal punishment, than any other has thus far, been able to. Thank you for making this video; it is extremely difficult, I know, to trudge through those abusive episodes in one's life, especially those experienced in childhood.
Discipline is the toughest form of love. When you don't discipline a child you are showing that child that you don't care about hm/her and that child will act out even more so just to invoke a response from you. Our crime rate is at a all time high now days and it's because you people don't want to spank kids!!!
You must teach a child right from wrong and make them accountable for their actions at a young age! If not done by the time the child is 4-5 its almost to late!!!
@mcrcomics2 Actually, crime rates are down and falling; a simple internet search will yield actual data to support this. Violent crime is at its lowest rate since the seventies, and continues to fall in major cities across the country.
There are better ways to practice discipline than hitting. Quite simply, there is no good reason to hit a child, ever.
@YouthFreedomFighters Probably not now, but this was the 60s in the South. The concept that students had any rights at all was a completely foreign idea.
@aaa333ify What does "most vunerable" have to do with anything? You are not killing the kid you are just using a form of punishment to keep them out of trouble. If more kids got spanked now a days they wouldn't be going crazy like they do now.
@blaq7427 What I mean is that I find it pretty conveniant that we are only allowed to hit very small children- the most vulnerable people in our society.
A husband can't hit his wife, a kid can't physically defend himself from a bully at school, we can't hit prisoners, but we CAN hit a small, helpless little child if it is "misbehaving." How very conveniant.
I've never endured institutionalized corporal punishment, but I was spanked as a young child. I'll admit it never actually taught me anything, but it did make be behave more often due to the fear of getting caught and spanked. I certainly would not consider it abuse. At a very young age I think it may be helpful. Try reasoning with a 3-5 year old or explaining why they should or shouldn't do something and you'll quickly see that you might as well talk to a wall. They understand pain though. xD
I think its a despicable tradition, the sooner the world gets rid of it the better.
I am glad it was made illegal in my country in schools in the 70's and completely in the year 2000. Of course it does still happen in some families, but at least it is socially almost completely unacceptable for the vast majority. One slap to the face in extreme circumstances by a parent might be the exception for some people.
I wonder how much religion has to do with it being so prevalent in many places..
In addition to power and control & anger and embarrassment, I believe people vent their frustration through corporal punishment... and later regret it.
WE"RE NOT FUCKING BEATING! LEST NOT ME ! OR ANYONE IN THE STATE OF ARKANSAS I KNOW OF ! AND YES IT TEACHES US I MYSELF Have HAD MY Share or it in my elementary grades but now i've gotten into gear and am a very good kid.
I was never physically abused as a child, not by teachers or my parents. But I can clearly see those who have. I dated a guy who was extremely abusive towards me, and it wasn't until I was at his house and saw his dad try to choke his step brother did I realize why he was so physically abusive towards me. He was punished for his lack of self control by more abuse from his step mom and birth dad. Thankfully it's over, but the way to stop misbehavior is not by physical abuse.
@kenzieisfly Parents teach by example more than anything they say. When a parent commits a violent act towards a child they teach the child that violence is an appropirate response to a problem. It seems simple and obvious.
I grew up in a very religious household. I was whipped on a regular basis, and threatened with going to hell. By the time I was a teenager, I was numb to any physical pain. I tried several times to run away, but I was always caught and brought back home only to get whipped again. When I finally graduated high school, I was given an all expense paid trip to Vietnam. I never went home after the war, and I rarely heard from them other than the occasional "you're going to hell" letter from Mom.
@framlin1950 Sadly religion plays a big part. It is no accident that many of the states that allow corporal punishment in schools are in the Bible Belt.
While I don't believe that corporal punishment ever did anything but bring on feelings of inadequacy and worthlessness, and propagate insecurity through generations, I still feel that discipline which doesn't involve any pain is necessary, but that's another topic entirely...
@fehquig Oh, I completely agree that discipline is necessary, just nonviolent discipline. I once made a B minus in English after years as a straight A student. My father made me spend the weekend indoors reviewing the chapters in the English textbook and he tested me on every chapter. I learned more from that than all the times he hit me combined (from which I learned nothing good). He was angry that I had performed less than my potential and he was right. That time his discipline was effective.
I can't speak to all children, but what I can say is that I never hit my child. It was sometimes very difficult to control my temper, and required more work on my part. My daughter recently graduated with highest honors from a very prestigious college, has never done drugs, or alcohol, and is one of the happiest, most empathetic young adults you would ever want to meet. Might point isn't that she turned out the way she did because I never used corporal punishment, but that it wasn't necessary.
@TheNakedAtheist I know it is anecdotal but I think your experience is in line with what I would expect. The people that I know where beaten, whipped, switched, smacked or whatever growing up all have problems with relationships, some with employment, others with crime or drugs or alcoholism. I wish someone would do a thorough study of this to get some solid data.
Very good video and I agree quite a bit. Plenty of times when I saw children disciplined for doing something wrong, it wasn't to teach them something or to correct them somehow, it was their parents taking out frustration on their kids. Many times when I saw other kids disciplined in school, it didn't improve them or help them, it made them ashamed and embarrassed and just more angry/violent themselves. Beating a child a just that, beating, not teaching.
@HoxMouse I'm sure raising children is frustrating and no parent can be perfect, but I think institutionalizing corporal punishment is certainly the wrong move.
From 1944 to 1959, the Roman Catholic Church and provincial government of Quebec under Duplesis defrauded the federal government of Canada by labeling orphans mentally disturbed or handicapped.
These children were not only abused physically and sexually but were drugged and subject to lobotomies, sterilizations and medical experiments.
Many children died at the hands of these bastards and were buried secretly in a nondescript cemetery in eastern Montreal.
@Denvonn I guess you could have learned to meditate while staring at the wall. Of course the energy of a kid pretty much precludes meditation. 30 minutes of that would be difficult.
Just so you're clear, I completely agree that the institutionalization of violence is perverse and should be illegal, and that corporal punishment by parents probably does more harm than good. I think that the law is not the proper remedy. We should continue to detect and prosecute instances of actual abuse while educating parents about the harmful effects and potential for abuse and damage caused by corporal punishment.
@DrOman5596 If you listened to what I was saying I am referring to corporal punishment in schools by educators, not by parents. I am not suggesting that spanking by parents be criminalized. I do think your experience is probably more the exception than the rule. I suspect most corporal punishment by parents (at least in the US) tends more towards abusive than edifying. I think education is a more effective remedy than criminalization, except in clear cases of abuse.
My parents spanked me as a child. It happened fewer than 10 times, was never excessive, and it was always done in a controlled manner with my well being in mind. For better or for worse, it instilled in me a sense that certain actions like hitting and running into traffic carried dire consequences. What they did was certainly not abuse, and though many parents are not so self controlled, making corporal punishment illegal would make too many responsible parents child abusers under the law.
Agreed. There are so many different methods of discipline, not to mention reinforcement, that have nothing to do with physical violence. I sincerely doubt that all these have been explored before 'corporal punishment' is issued, so I can't help but be skeptical when I hear of spanking because 'nothing else works'. There are always exceptions to the rules, however.
Few things. My mum would hit me and my sister, but in a controlled way. Not enough to leave a mark, but enough to stop us burning the kitchen down etc. I personally really agree with it, because it's controlled and I have no recollection of any specific beating from my past (However, I have quite a repressive personality but I think that's more genetic, judging my dad... And being British).
Also, As a teacher in Korea, I use violence with my kids but (PTO)
@ABombs1 It's always playful and I remain on their level - That is to say, they can fight me back. Always ends in laughs I'm more of a kid than them half the time. My only serious punishments are sending them out, name on the board etc. But the violence kinda gives a playful threat which actually makes them work.
As I said, I teach in Korea, where Corporal punishment is, I think, illegal but not acted upon (like most their laws) and it happens often and... well, just look at the suicide rates.
@ABombs1 One of the commenters in this thread (who also teaches in Korea) said it was only officially banned last fall. I'm sure it's still legal in North Korea.
@FantasticBabblings Well, let's not relate the two countries in this context, but I still see many examples of kids being hit or unnecessarily yelled at. My system still works, oddly. I can simply raise three fingers, and the kids know that by the time they count down to zero, they're in big trouble. I've yet to get to the zero point!
I think it's all inherently problematic. The further back in generations you go, the more people tend to hate Germany. Likewise (pto)
@ABombs1 , corporal punishment is being passed down by those who received it and feel it's a good idea. My granddad was always proud of it, claiming it never did him any harm. But then, I wonder if he ever took a step back and looked at himself.
I think this is a case of time being the best healer. Hopefully.
In Titusville florida my father and mother placed my non catholic self in St. Theresa's Private school due to smaller class size. One day an angry nun slapped me across the face two times. I had never been slapped in he face before as a boy so my reaction was quick , I litually beat her down three flights of stairs and busted out two of her front teeth and was, to my delight exspelled!
@theRoseofmyheart If that makes you nauseous don't read the Ryan Report. The things those priests and nuns did to kids in Ireland over many decades will curl your toes.
@qiranger I'm sure if this was the way it was always done it will be difficult for them to learn new ways, but at least they have made the first step. It will be a long time before it is completely banned in the US.
@aprilwithfluff I think a lot of parents (at least in my generation) spanked more when they were young and as they grew older they realized it was the wrong thing to do. I don't see grandparents physically punish grandchildren very often. The wisdom of age, perhaps. Guilt maybe.
Well spoken Phil - good for you. You seem to have considered all sides and reasoned through them. NO! It should not be legal. There should be public service announcements showing alternatives. Many people who spank simply do it because they know no other way. I spanked my kids a few times each - when they ran in the street or let go my hand in a parking lot, but as soon as they could reason, it stopped. My daughter has never even raised her voice to her children and they are very well behaved.
@thizizliz It's unnecessary, it teaches the child that being bigger means you can force your will on anyone smaller, it's counter productive and it doesn't teach a child to reason, only to fear. Great topic Phil.
@thizizliz Parenting is one of those things I always thought should be taught in school, like other life skills like balancing a checkbook or managing credit. I think society would be better off than it is now when people are just thrown into their adult lives without training or mentoring. Parents should do that for their kids, but if the parents are abusive what is the next generation to do?
@FantasticBabblings Phil, you are SO right! My son and I often say that people should be born sterile and not given the antidote until they have passed parenting classes, proven maturity and are financially stable! LOL - but who would be making those choices -that's almost as scary!
An impressive display of thinking here. The use of violence as sadism, revenge and sexual humiliation teaches kids that all three are okay. These are, after all, teachers doing it.
Why then are parents suprised that their kids continue to be problems in school?
We can only wonder what the teacher and parent would say if the same punishments were dished out for their misbehaviors.
@jimisru Well said. If teachers and parents who abuse looked deep inside they would probably see that their actions are the result of similar abuse in their own childhood.
My father was sadistic and his violence was random and destructive. I often didn't know why I was hit.
My 3rd grade teacher used a small ruler to hit with - we new what action would get what punishment . She was also very nurturing and gave me a lot of encouragement - I remember her fondly.
My 4th grade teacher never hit but she frequently humiliated me - a truly wretched person.
I think it's more about consistency and intent than the actual punishment - within reason of course.
@cavejourney I had similar experience in often not knowing why I was being hit. And emotional abuse like humiliation can be worse than physical sometimes. Consistency and intent are important.
Our system is not healthy to send kids to strangers for partial upbringing. "Spare the rod, spoil the child" is one quote but it also "takes a village to raise a child" and by "village" that must mean a close, localized community net of arms-length neighbors.
The problem lies in the daily structure itself, not so much the law within or pertaining to said structure. Gay bashing made me think of the more general problems with schooling.
@TheFinalTestament I can only have an opinion from my memories of childhood and observations. Clearly I have never raised a child (I home schooled my cats). But I can tell you from my experience that the structure that raised me was seriously flawed.
Yeah. A more personal experience is: I used to be nauseous around 9-10th grade walking to school. If I decided not to go, I'd feel ok. I dropped out middle of 10th, got my GED within 2 weeks, never looked back. Kids in the same situation should know that more than anything it's the connections made with others that get you anywhere so don't lose hope ditching school. Keep passionate, always have questions. Learning comes in many forms, nothing like going out and just doing.
My 5th grade old maid teacher had a paddle, she made me bed over a table once and wacked my ass 7 times. Unfortunately, every one knew where she lived and that she never drove her big car to church on Sunday because she was afraid to drive over the bridge, so she took the bus. Somebody busted up her car good one Sunday. She told everybody she knew who had done it and gave them a chance to confess. No one ever did. Never saw her use that paddle again. Oh well.........we live and learn.
When I was a grade schooler, I saw a kid taken out to the hall, screamed at, and viciously grabbed by a teacher. Sure, I can understand that parents don't want to be called evil for swatting their kids on the backside that scene has stayed with me throughout the years. Want to punish a misbehaving kid? Make them do extra chores (preferably something that actually corrects whatever they did wrong) or take away privileges.
@selenite1 Parents are human and I know it must be frustrating some times. I'm sure most swats on the backside or whatever don't qualify as abuse, but when it is legally sanctioned and institutionalized, I think that sends a terrible message and leads to a lot of abuse. I agree with you that there are alternative, nonviolent and more effective means of punishment.
Beating a kid is wrong. However there is a difference between a beating and a spanking or a smack on the butt. Using a paddle ? which I believe is what American schools use, is wrong, but a mum or a dad, smacking a kids butt a few times with their hand, in my opinion is acceptable providing its a last resort.
We don't inprison kids for crimes, nor can anyone under 10 be arrested for any crime, including murder. Adults go to jail, Kids need a deterrent for their actions.
@paul1967uk As a last resort, maybe. I found that suspension of priveleges or even just explaining the error of my ways was more effective than any physical punishment. But my father didn't use his hand (unless it was a backhand). He mostly used his belt, much like a whip.
@FantasticBabblings I had a sadistic teacher in school. But, I was lucky at home, I knew smackings were a option for my parents to use, but if I screwed up, I always got a chance not to repeat what I had done wrong. I knew certain "naughtys" Would get me spanked. So I didn't repeat them. Hence I rarely got into trouble at home. I would fuck up, get a warning and not repeat it. If I did, I knew the consiquence. Hence I behaved. I can count on one hand how many times I ended up in trouble
Good for you for making this video.
A teacher should NEVER be allowed to pick up a board and strike a child, especially someone else's child.
Corporal Punishment=Legal Child Abuse
fitasafiddle123 2 weeks ago
Another time I was spanked was for refusing to do as I was told. I was told to clean my room and I just simply said "no". What I learned was that my parents words were to be followed. It is not until I grew older that I understood why reasoning would not work. The idea of following my parents words because they cumulatively make me a better person is too complex of an idea for reason. It is odd because I never felt hate toward my parents except when they used timeouts.
aaronbassplyr 5 months ago
Comment removed
aaronbassplyr 5 months ago
I was spanked for various things. I will say that I benefited from it in that it forced me to do act in a way that eventually molded my character today. For example. I was once spanked for climbing onto the neighbors rooftop. At the time it was beyond my scope of understanding how I could hurt myself. Sure I knew that I might fall by my judgment was simply not developed enough to understand what that may entail.
aaronbassplyr 5 months ago
Mr. Babblings, you have more perfectly articulated the argument against corporal punishment, than any other has thus far, been able to. Thank you for making this video; it is extremely difficult, I know, to trudge through those abusive episodes in one's life, especially those experienced in childhood.
Firebiird 10 months ago
@Firebiird Thanks for your kind comment.
FantasticBabblings 10 months ago
Discipline is the toughest form of love. When you don't discipline a child you are showing that child that you don't care about hm/her and that child will act out even more so just to invoke a response from you. Our crime rate is at a all time high now days and it's because you people don't want to spank kids!!!
You must teach a child right from wrong and make them accountable for their actions at a young age! If not done by the time the child is 4-5 its almost to late!!!
mcrcomics2 10 months ago
@mcrcomics2 Actually, crime rates are down and falling; a simple internet search will yield actual data to support this. Violent crime is at its lowest rate since the seventies, and continues to fall in major cities across the country.
There are better ways to practice discipline than hitting. Quite simply, there is no good reason to hit a child, ever.
Firebiird 9 months ago
@mcrcomics2 Are you equating discipline with violence?
chapaev36 3 months ago in playlist More videos from FantasticBabblings
I certainly wouldnt've dropped my pants in high school for some gym coach. I couldn't imagine any other high school student cooperating as such.
YouthFreedomFighters 10 months ago
@YouthFreedomFighters Probably not now, but this was the 60s in the South. The concept that students had any rights at all was a completely foreign idea.
FantasticBabblings 10 months ago
@FantasticBabblings So another words, if a teacher or coach tried to rape a student the student would let them do it.
YouthFreedomFighters 10 months ago
@YouthFreedomFighters I'm sure it happened. Adults had a great deal of power over kids. Still do, but not as much as then.
FantasticBabblings 10 months ago
you look like a pedophile
giovannasos 10 months ago
Corporal punishment is needed when the child is young so we don;'t have to use capital punishment on them later
blaq7427 11 months ago
@blaq7427 But then you are using it on the most vulnerable.
aaa333ify 10 months ago
@aaa333ify What does "most vunerable" have to do with anything? You are not killing the kid you are just using a form of punishment to keep them out of trouble. If more kids got spanked now a days they wouldn't be going crazy like they do now.
blaq7427 10 months ago
@blaq7427 What I mean is that I find it pretty conveniant that we are only allowed to hit very small children- the most vulnerable people in our society.
A husband can't hit his wife, a kid can't physically defend himself from a bully at school, we can't hit prisoners, but we CAN hit a small, helpless little child if it is "misbehaving." How very conveniant.
Do you see my point?
aaa333ify 10 months ago
I've never endured institutionalized corporal punishment, but I was spanked as a young child. I'll admit it never actually taught me anything, but it did make be behave more often due to the fear of getting caught and spanked. I certainly would not consider it abuse. At a very young age I think it may be helpful. Try reasoning with a 3-5 year old or explaining why they should or shouldn't do something and you'll quickly see that you might as well talk to a wall. They understand pain though. xD
Nephatrine 11 months ago
endcorporalpunishment org
MisterWeed 11 months ago
I think its a despicable tradition, the sooner the world gets rid of it the better.
I am glad it was made illegal in my country in schools in the 70's and completely in the year 2000. Of course it does still happen in some families, but at least it is socially almost completely unacceptable for the vast majority. One slap to the face in extreme circumstances by a parent might be the exception for some people.
I wonder how much religion has to do with it being so prevalent in many places..
MisterWeed 11 months ago
In addition to power and control & anger and embarrassment, I believe people vent their frustration through corporal punishment... and later regret it.
Elaina43 11 months ago
No duh their catholic . Don't you know that the pope protects child molester that are priests.
Sora657 11 months ago
WE"RE NOT FUCKING BEATING! LEST NOT ME ! OR ANYONE IN THE STATE OF ARKANSAS I KNOW OF ! AND YES IT TEACHES US I MYSELF Have HAD MY Share or it in my elementary grades but now i've gotten into gear and am a very good kid.
Sora657 11 months ago
@Sora657 Your comment speaks for itself.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago 3
@Sora657 NOW that you can't be beaten anymore, NOW you support beating.
I'll bet anything that if you were still a little child right now who was able to be beaten, you'd be against corporal punishment.
aaa333ify 10 months ago
@aaa333ify I'd be for it teaches discipline & respect to some kids. Ex. Me and Many anonymous numerous others.
Sora657 10 months ago
I was never physically abused as a child, not by teachers or my parents. But I can clearly see those who have. I dated a guy who was extremely abusive towards me, and it wasn't until I was at his house and saw his dad try to choke his step brother did I realize why he was so physically abusive towards me. He was punished for his lack of self control by more abuse from his step mom and birth dad. Thankfully it's over, but the way to stop misbehavior is not by physical abuse.
kenzieisfly 11 months ago
@kenzieisfly Parents teach by example more than anything they say. When a parent commits a violent act towards a child they teach the child that violence is an appropirate response to a problem. It seems simple and obvious.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
Oh all such punishment oughty to be illegal.
Should get you in prison, cuz it's wrong and creepy as hell.
Forgot to say that.
Kudos Mr B.
faunflynn 11 months ago
You are one of the most lucid people on Youtube.
Your posts are great and your Babs Bush is goddamned sublime.
Keep on kicking kiddo.
Your school sounds nightmarish.
I am sending you my good thoughts. Lame I know but it's there.
faunflynn 11 months ago
@faunflynn The school is no longer there. It is now a Walmart (don't know if that is a move up or down :)
Thanks for your kind comments and good thoughts. It really does mean something to me.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
Kudos for this post. You are of course dead right.
Thanks for this post.
Physical chatisement is a self defeating practice.
Good on you man. Cool post.
faunflynn 11 months ago
I grew up in a very religious household. I was whipped on a regular basis, and threatened with going to hell. By the time I was a teenager, I was numb to any physical pain. I tried several times to run away, but I was always caught and brought back home only to get whipped again. When I finally graduated high school, I was given an all expense paid trip to Vietnam. I never went home after the war, and I rarely heard from them other than the occasional "you're going to hell" letter from Mom.
framlin1950 11 months ago
@framlin1950 Sadly religion plays a big part. It is no accident that many of the states that allow corporal punishment in schools are in the Bible Belt.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
@FantasticBabblings so true - and sad.
Elaina43 11 months ago
While I don't believe that corporal punishment ever did anything but bring on feelings of inadequacy and worthlessness, and propagate insecurity through generations, I still feel that discipline which doesn't involve any pain is necessary, but that's another topic entirely...
fehquig 11 months ago
@fehquig Oh, I completely agree that discipline is necessary, just nonviolent discipline. I once made a B minus in English after years as a straight A student. My father made me spend the weekend indoors reviewing the chapters in the English textbook and he tested me on every chapter. I learned more from that than all the times he hit me combined (from which I learned nothing good). He was angry that I had performed less than my potential and he was right. That time his discipline was effective.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
I can't speak to all children, but what I can say is that I never hit my child. It was sometimes very difficult to control my temper, and required more work on my part. My daughter recently graduated with highest honors from a very prestigious college, has never done drugs, or alcohol, and is one of the happiest, most empathetic young adults you would ever want to meet. Might point isn't that she turned out the way she did because I never used corporal punishment, but that it wasn't necessary.
TheNakedAtheist 11 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist I know it is anecdotal but I think your experience is in line with what I would expect. The people that I know where beaten, whipped, switched, smacked or whatever growing up all have problems with relationships, some with employment, others with crime or drugs or alcoholism. I wish someone would do a thorough study of this to get some solid data.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
Very good video and I agree quite a bit. Plenty of times when I saw children disciplined for doing something wrong, it wasn't to teach them something or to correct them somehow, it was their parents taking out frustration on their kids. Many times when I saw other kids disciplined in school, it didn't improve them or help them, it made them ashamed and embarrassed and just more angry/violent themselves. Beating a child a just that, beating, not teaching.
HoxMouse 11 months ago
@HoxMouse I'm sure raising children is frustrating and no parent can be perfect, but I think institutionalizing corporal punishment is certainly the wrong move.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
From 1944 to 1959, the Roman Catholic Church and provincial government of Quebec under Duplesis defrauded the federal government of Canada by labeling orphans mentally disturbed or handicapped.
These children were not only abused physically and sexually but were drugged and subject to lobotomies, sterilizations and medical experiments.
Many children died at the hands of these bastards and were buried secretly in a nondescript cemetery in eastern Montreal.
canucktunes 11 months ago
@canucktunes It seems whenever you add the Catholic church into the mix things just get worse. What a truly fucked up institution.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
@FantasticBabblings Definitely. They were quite arrogant to think they could get away with so many abuse cases and murders.
canucktunes 11 months ago
@Denvonn I guess you could have learned to meditate while staring at the wall. Of course the energy of a kid pretty much precludes meditation. 30 minutes of that would be difficult.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
Just so you're clear, I completely agree that the institutionalization of violence is perverse and should be illegal, and that corporal punishment by parents probably does more harm than good. I think that the law is not the proper remedy. We should continue to detect and prosecute instances of actual abuse while educating parents about the harmful effects and potential for abuse and damage caused by corporal punishment.
DrOman5596 11 months ago
@DrOman5596 If you listened to what I was saying I am referring to corporal punishment in schools by educators, not by parents. I am not suggesting that spanking by parents be criminalized. I do think your experience is probably more the exception than the rule. I suspect most corporal punishment by parents (at least in the US) tends more towards abusive than edifying. I think education is a more effective remedy than criminalization, except in clear cases of abuse.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago 2
My parents spanked me as a child. It happened fewer than 10 times, was never excessive, and it was always done in a controlled manner with my well being in mind. For better or for worse, it instilled in me a sense that certain actions like hitting and running into traffic carried dire consequences. What they did was certainly not abuse, and though many parents are not so self controlled, making corporal punishment illegal would make too many responsible parents child abusers under the law.
DrOman5596 11 months ago
Agreed. There are so many different methods of discipline, not to mention reinforcement, that have nothing to do with physical violence. I sincerely doubt that all these have been explored before 'corporal punishment' is issued, so I can't help but be skeptical when I hear of spanking because 'nothing else works'. There are always exceptions to the rules, however.
malignanthero 11 months ago
@malignanthero I agree. Often I hear people say corporal punishment should be the last resort. For some that means the second resort... or the first.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
Few things. My mum would hit me and my sister, but in a controlled way. Not enough to leave a mark, but enough to stop us burning the kitchen down etc. I personally really agree with it, because it's controlled and I have no recollection of any specific beating from my past (However, I have quite a repressive personality but I think that's more genetic, judging my dad... And being British).
Also, As a teacher in Korea, I use violence with my kids but (PTO)
ABombs1 11 months ago
@ABombs1 It's always playful and I remain on their level - That is to say, they can fight me back. Always ends in laughs I'm more of a kid than them half the time. My only serious punishments are sending them out, name on the board etc. But the violence kinda gives a playful threat which actually makes them work.
As I said, I teach in Korea, where Corporal punishment is, I think, illegal but not acted upon (like most their laws) and it happens often and... well, just look at the suicide rates.
ABombs1 11 months ago
@ABombs1 One of the commenters in this thread (who also teaches in Korea) said it was only officially banned last fall. I'm sure it's still legal in North Korea.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
@FantasticBabblings Well, let's not relate the two countries in this context, but I still see many examples of kids being hit or unnecessarily yelled at. My system still works, oddly. I can simply raise three fingers, and the kids know that by the time they count down to zero, they're in big trouble. I've yet to get to the zero point!
I think it's all inherently problematic. The further back in generations you go, the more people tend to hate Germany. Likewise (pto)
ABombs1 11 months ago
@ABombs1 , corporal punishment is being passed down by those who received it and feel it's a good idea. My granddad was always proud of it, claiming it never did him any harm. But then, I wonder if he ever took a step back and looked at himself.
I think this is a case of time being the best healer. Hopefully.
ABombs1 11 months ago
@ABombs1 And the age of the suicide victim majority.
ABombs1 11 months ago
In Titusville florida my father and mother placed my non catholic self in St. Theresa's Private school due to smaller class size. One day an angry nun slapped me across the face two times. I had never been slapped in he face before as a boy so my reaction was quick , I litually beat her down three flights of stairs and busted out two of her front teeth and was, to my delight exspelled!
Clemburke1111 11 months ago
@Clemburke1111 Nuns are notoriously brutal. AT least you got the hell out of there.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
What you are describing is absolutely heinous
SHAME ON THEM
omg- I am actually nauseous thinking about this-the poor babies
theRoseofmyheart 11 months ago
@theRoseofmyheart If that makes you nauseous don't read the Ryan Report. The things those priests and nuns did to kids in Ireland over many decades will curl your toes.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
There's really no excuse to use corporal punishment to reign in behavior. It's a sign that administrators have no control of the environment.
qiranger 11 months ago
This past fall, Korea finally ended this practice. The teachers complained, "How will we control the children now?"
qiranger 11 months ago
@qiranger I'm sure if this was the way it was always done it will be difficult for them to learn new ways, but at least they have made the first step. It will be a long time before it is completely banned in the US.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
@aprilwithfluff I think a lot of parents (at least in my generation) spanked more when they were young and as they grew older they realized it was the wrong thing to do. I don't see grandparents physically punish grandchildren very often. The wisdom of age, perhaps. Guilt maybe.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
@TheGachiman111 Indeed. And all of those things stay with you all of your life. Some learn to cope; some don't.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
@wasssuppp08 Don't give them any ideas.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
Well spoken Phil - good for you. You seem to have considered all sides and reasoned through them. NO! It should not be legal. There should be public service announcements showing alternatives. Many people who spank simply do it because they know no other way. I spanked my kids a few times each - when they ran in the street or let go my hand in a parking lot, but as soon as they could reason, it stopped. My daughter has never even raised her voice to her children and they are very well behaved.
thizizliz 11 months ago
@thizizliz It's unnecessary, it teaches the child that being bigger means you can force your will on anyone smaller, it's counter productive and it doesn't teach a child to reason, only to fear. Great topic Phil.
thizizliz 11 months ago
@thizizliz Parenting is one of those things I always thought should be taught in school, like other life skills like balancing a checkbook or managing credit. I think society would be better off than it is now when people are just thrown into their adult lives without training or mentoring. Parents should do that for their kids, but if the parents are abusive what is the next generation to do?
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
@FantasticBabblings Phil, you are SO right! My son and I often say that people should be born sterile and not given the antidote until they have passed parenting classes, proven maturity and are financially stable! LOL - but who would be making those choices -that's almost as scary!
thizizliz 11 months ago
An impressive display of thinking here. The use of violence as sadism, revenge and sexual humiliation teaches kids that all three are okay. These are, after all, teachers doing it.
Why then are parents suprised that their kids continue to be problems in school?
We can only wonder what the teacher and parent would say if the same punishments were dished out for their misbehaviors.
jimisru 11 months ago
@jimisru Well said. If teachers and parents who abuse looked deep inside they would probably see that their actions are the result of similar abuse in their own childhood.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
My father was sadistic and his violence was random and destructive. I often didn't know why I was hit.
My 3rd grade teacher used a small ruler to hit with - we new what action would get what punishment . She was also very nurturing and gave me a lot of encouragement - I remember her fondly.
My 4th grade teacher never hit but she frequently humiliated me - a truly wretched person.
I think it's more about consistency and intent than the actual punishment - within reason of course.
cavejourney 11 months ago
@cavejourney I had similar experience in often not knowing why I was being hit. And emotional abuse like humiliation can be worse than physical sometimes. Consistency and intent are important.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
Our system is not healthy to send kids to strangers for partial upbringing. "Spare the rod, spoil the child" is one quote but it also "takes a village to raise a child" and by "village" that must mean a close, localized community net of arms-length neighbors.
The problem lies in the daily structure itself, not so much the law within or pertaining to said structure. Gay bashing made me think of the more general problems with schooling.
This is going on my LRA page on facebook. <3
TheFinalTestament 11 months ago
@TheFinalTestament
*The general problems with *bullying*... on a large scale.
GhostWhisperBlues 11 months ago
@TheFinalTestament I can only have an opinion from my memories of childhood and observations. Clearly I have never raised a child (I home schooled my cats). But I can tell you from my experience that the structure that raised me was seriously flawed.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
@FantasticBabblings
Yeah. A more personal experience is: I used to be nauseous around 9-10th grade walking to school. If I decided not to go, I'd feel ok. I dropped out middle of 10th, got my GED within 2 weeks, never looked back. Kids in the same situation should know that more than anything it's the connections made with others that get you anywhere so don't lose hope ditching school. Keep passionate, always have questions. Learning comes in many forms, nothing like going out and just doing.
TheFinalTestament 11 months ago
My 5th grade old maid teacher had a paddle, she made me bed over a table once and wacked my ass 7 times. Unfortunately, every one knew where she lived and that she never drove her big car to church on Sunday because she was afraid to drive over the bridge, so she took the bus. Somebody busted up her car good one Sunday. She told everybody she knew who had done it and gave them a chance to confess. No one ever did. Never saw her use that paddle again. Oh well.........we live and learn.
MISSBEBEBLUE 11 months ago
@MISSBEBEBLUE Karma is a bitch. A busted up car seems a fair price to exact.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
When I was a grade schooler, I saw a kid taken out to the hall, screamed at, and viciously grabbed by a teacher. Sure, I can understand that parents don't want to be called evil for swatting their kids on the backside that scene has stayed with me throughout the years. Want to punish a misbehaving kid? Make them do extra chores (preferably something that actually corrects whatever they did wrong) or take away privileges.
selenite1 11 months ago
@selenite1 Parents are human and I know it must be frustrating some times. I'm sure most swats on the backside or whatever don't qualify as abuse, but when it is legally sanctioned and institutionalized, I think that sends a terrible message and leads to a lot of abuse. I agree with you that there are alternative, nonviolent and more effective means of punishment.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
@wasssuppp08 The American goverment are the world leading experts in waterboarding and torture.
paul1967uk 11 months ago
@paul1967uk It's a shame, but it's true.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
Beating a kid is wrong. However there is a difference between a beating and a spanking or a smack on the butt. Using a paddle ? which I believe is what American schools use, is wrong, but a mum or a dad, smacking a kids butt a few times with their hand, in my opinion is acceptable providing its a last resort.
We don't inprison kids for crimes, nor can anyone under 10 be arrested for any crime, including murder. Adults go to jail, Kids need a deterrent for their actions.
paul1967uk 11 months ago
@paul1967uk As a last resort, maybe. I found that suspension of priveleges or even just explaining the error of my ways was more effective than any physical punishment. But my father didn't use his hand (unless it was a backhand). He mostly used his belt, much like a whip.
FantasticBabblings 11 months ago
@FantasticBabblings I had a sadistic teacher in school. But, I was lucky at home, I knew smackings were a option for my parents to use, but if I screwed up, I always got a chance not to repeat what I had done wrong. I knew certain "naughtys" Would get me spanked. So I didn't repeat them. Hence I rarely got into trouble at home. I would fuck up, get a warning and not repeat it. If I did, I knew the consiquence. Hence I behaved. I can count on one hand how many times I ended up in trouble
paul1967uk 11 months ago