Funny, whenever there is a Brit reviewing a Land Rover it's always superior. I'm sure it's a fine vehicle but to be honest LR just does not have the reliability record of Toyota. If you take a good Jeep and put lockers on it then you have a good 4x4 and much cheaper. The AMC inline 6 is a strong reliable motor too. In this case though I would bet that most people would rather have the Toyota over the LR. How can anyone say one vehicle is definitively better than the other except in quality??
@gekko14 I have owned four L Rovers, five Toyotas and two Mercs. I love them all - but in the end, you will see, I chose the Toyota. And i am a Brit - doing my very best to be unbaised. Today I have a Toyota, not a Rover.
70% of Land Rovers are still on the road because Landy owners have to shell-out to keep them on the road! Try and find a 15 yo + landy thats still original and that has been used daily that isnt knackered!!
@gp1585 Their are old Land Rovers every where here in the north east. I know many people just in my coastal town who own them. They make great coastal trucks and hold up to the salt air around here. You just don't notice.
This video is biased toward the LR, the only thing here that is clear is that the Toyota should lock up the axles before it looses traction, this is far superior to traction control, try and do a sandy steep hill clime and see who gets the highest,lol, the Defender wouldn't get too far unless you could turn it off, then it would have 2 open diffs, not very good, so the Toy wins here hands down, it wouldn't require a brake job after heavy wheeling.
@adsabine1 I am not sure how you can say it is biased. While I tried to be as neutral as possible, at the end, i chose the Toyota. If you read the comments, you will see that LR owners think i am pro LC and LR owners think I am pro LC. I think this is proof enough that the test was as unbiased as humanly possible.
@4xforum You made a wise choice, I thought that this vidoe was a little hard on the Toys lockers, I do not like traction control at all, this four wheeling is not that extreme, if you were to push it to the limits the Toyota with the lockers engaged would do stuff the LR could only dream of, this is because traction control is not for the extreme stuff, in my opinion it doesn't belong on 4x4s at all.
@adsabine1 I agree entirely! I would take lockers without hesitation over TC. But for inexperienced drivers, lockers can be very hard to handle, as the steering as effected and they can feel as if they are losing control.
@4xforum You are clearly an experienced four wheeler, I think anyone with selectable lockers would eventually figure it out, I remember getting stuck in my driveway in the snow with TC in my loaner car, an hr later my opened diff car blasted out of there, it was black and white, and on the loaner car, I couldn't turn the TC off, it was really pathetic to watch, I should post it on Y-tube, It was filmed.
@nihil5611 - To change history is not possible. The claim that LR is "the best 4x4xfar" is arrogant, another cheap shot and grabbing at straws. Compare your other LR product the Freelander to the Hilux, Fortuner or any Toyota product and then really feel ashamed. Why is it so really very very hard for the Rover-zealots to admit LR`s poor sales, abhorant reliability, poor 2nd hand value and trademark mechanical failures on gearboxes, drive trains, side shafts and electricals.
@groenduif You forgot that 70% of Land Rovers are still on the road. I like to see a estimate of the Land Cruiser from 1951 to date left on the road. I'm sure their are more late models out their and less pre 1980's left.
@sundown798 70% of Land Rovers are still on the road because Landy owners shell-out to keep them there! Did you know that 40% of Land Rovers profits go back into repairing 52% of their 4x4s sold today??
We in the Arab Gulf countries using both cars but we are confident that there is no comparison between any car on Earth used for off-road with the Toyota Land Cruiser 70 series
@dodo5555500 Hah, I do miss every second car being a Land Rover like what I experience in Qatar for 2+ years. Back in Aus and there are so many small cars, lol. Sucks balls we pay $1.50/L for unleaded.
@Chroma2021 - Refering to the Land Cruiser as a "cheap copy" is a cheap shot, but has provided all with a good laugh and entertainment. Price wise the
LC is all but cheap, when was the last time you visited your local Toyota dealer. New LC`s are horrendously expensive. They are excellent vehicles and have outsold LR worldwide. Toyota started producing the 4x4 LC predecessor in the 1940`s. It is all but a copy, not even a cheap copy - which is really a cheap comment.
"Toyota started producing the 4x4 LC predecessor in the 1940`s"
The AK was a failed prototype and there was no relationship between it and the first LC that appeared in the 50's.
I understand that you Toyo-zealots feel obliged to attempt to rewrite history, after all that's what Toyota's marketing has done all along. For example, in Australia they claim that Toyota singlehandedly built the Snowy Mountain Scheme, which is an outright lie.
I choose the Defender .. alot more fun and more of an experience. I agree that "chick magnet" is bull .. clearly the driver isnt capable of getting any nd needs a car to do it for him. The LC is a cool car, very good off road vehicle, but the Defender appeals to some people way more than others, thats all? The Land Rover has so much more pedigree than any other car, they have 'something about them' that is just better to me. Iv had no problems with my Defender 110 Td5, she takes me ANYWHERE ! :)
@ihaveairlockers - Well done on ye mate. Yeah bloody good question with not any
answers yet. Why do most armies, police, terrorists, mining companies, explorers,
archeologists, tour and wildlife operators, the entire UN, surveyors, drillers, Australians, outbackers, travellers, emergency services, Namibians, the entire Botswana etc. prefer the same vehicle? You see, cool looks, chick magnetism, body panels and all the other crap can never substitute reliability, engineering and
@JacenDex - I have owned and driven many off road trips with a LR Defender. It is very good in 4x4. But, the ride, seating and finish is inferior to that of the LC. I had many snapped side shafts, drive train breakages and poor overall reliability. After switching to a Toyota LC, all of that has changed. Praising aluminium bodies, chick magnets, appeal, coolness, looks and culture is bull, irrelevant & not true. "Best 4x4xFar" is also bull. Go for a good and reliable 4x4, go Toyota LC.
At 4.45 new Defender is a fiasco. I have 300 tdi in my LR Defender 110 and i can brake "like a glove" even in 2nd Low range perfectly(1st too slow) up to 30 degrees. in 1st low range even 45% is done withoul slipping. It looks damm scarry, though and with duratorque engine i wouldnt have enough courage to do such gradients.
Im not opposed to tech devenlopement, but this is a damm disaster. Potentially dangerous one. i hope they would fix it soon.
Anyone who's spent time in Australia, the wilds of Africa, the deserts of the middle east or in the SE Asian jungles will tell you that there is only 1 choice when it comes to a 4wd you can trust your life with.
There's a reason why mining companies, explorer's, the UN, surveyors, drillers, outback property owners, travellers, terrorists, emergency services, police, and military all use one brand of vehicle.
Anyone who knows, knows which vehicle to rely on to bring you and your gear home.
The lurching can be avoided by the commonly referred to manual hill descent control, tapping on the brakes. Btw i love both vehicles but have a defender 90 which has done 200,000 miles without breaking anything and hasnt even rotted away 'yet' haha all it needed was someone to look after it, thats hiw these common problems with lansrovers come from, Neglect! Look after them and they'le look afta you :)
@JoshHurdissHall - Since when are the comments on this thread stupid. This is a great forum for 4x4 unthusiasts to voice an opinion or ask questions, which Andrew
answers from years and years of first hand knowledge and experience which is second to none. Not all posters are experts, and certain comments are sometimes off the track but are really not "stupid debates". One thing I do agree with, buy the vehicle you want but do consider the proven pros and cons of differrent vehicles.
@Sundown798 - I agree, LR is in a class of it`s own. The class which characterizes
unreliability, gearbox and drive train collapses, electronics failures, extremely poor
re-sale value, slow, uncomfortable seating/driving and a lorry like experience. Less than 5% vehicles are near any ocean or ever rust anyway - it is not an issue. I`ve
owned both. Unbolting panels, rust etc is absolutely irrelevant. Important stuff are reliability, resale value, comfort, engineering. In these Toyota rules.
@hawkeyesurfer What do you reckon would be the result? I reckon, with same tyres at same pressures, not much difference. I have driven both in these conditions, although the Defender I drove had the V8 petrol engine. The Toyota engine is a slogger, unlike the Defender's turbo-diesel, and at slow speed with high power, I think I would prefer the Toyota.
@hawkeyesurfer I think the Deefa would be better in soft sand, assuming equal tyres - because the defender is quite a bit lighter, infact it is only just over 2 tonne.
Nice to see ONE (and seiously, I actually do think this is the ONLY ONE) youtube vid with opposing faction 4x4s, have a comments section that isn't a warzone of name-calling and profanities! And more, people respecting the poster 'cos he knows what he is talking about (other people on YT know their stuff as well, but doesn't stop them getting sworn at unfortunately)...
@cl998 I monitor the posts and if anyone so much as flings a single insult at another or his or her opinion, then i block them without asking questions. As a result we have what was intended: an unbiased test with varied, often biased but measured opinion. I think it has been successful. But I still don't understand why some people get so emotionally entrapped with what is, after all, nothing more than machines built by huge, faceless corporate companies.
@sundown798 My Defender and Range Rovers had imperial engine nuts and metric body nuts. A 32-piece tool set was not enough. This Land Cruiser's engine has no electronics whatsoever. All Land Rovers have engine management systems, essential if they are to be sold in Europe... needing in addition to the 32-piece tool set, a laptop with the right software. Land Cruisers are no more or no less difficult to work on than Land Rovers and in Africa, Toyota spares are everywhere! Unfortunately, not so LR
@4xforum Was really joking as you would need several but more common tools. Directing more to the body panels and not taking apart any electronics. Can you unbolt the Toyota body panels from the truck piece by piece like a Land Rover? Are the Toyota Panels all welded together which I think it is. I have personally stripped down a older Land Rover with common tools down to the bare frame in a weekend. The Landy aluminum body would outlast the Toyotas steele by decades. Landy is a chick magnet!
@sundown798 Many valid points. Toyotas are welded and while Land Rover LTD are not champs at anti- corrosion, Toyotas are at times poor. The while the Rover's body is alloy the chassis is not, nor is the firewall and other important bits, which rust just like any other car. But anti-corrosion measures is one of the Cruiser's downfalls. Older LRs bodies are easier to work on, no doubt. Mechanically, they are very similar - I having worked on both, and they take a similar effort to fix.
@4xforum If you have a tad extra money to spend, you can buy frames hot dip GALVANIZED and with the combination of the aluminum body panels, would last forever. The only other part that is steel is the firewall, door bottoms and im sure there is someone doing those too by now. If you live by the ocean and want something to last, Land Rover is still king. The fact that I can strip this all in my backyard, still don't compare to Cruiser. Landy's are in a class of their own period.
@sundown798 And yes. LRs are more of an appeal to the chicks... in the UK maybe. But here in South Africa, Land Cruiser pickups with a bit of equipment bolted on, has the same effect. Yes, the Rover has much more character... no doubt about it! Land Rover spares in South Africa are upward of twice as expensive as Toyota spares. I made a funny video called, A 'humorous look at the Land Rover cult', which you may enjoy...on my website, 4xforum.com.
@Stefanesai If you waited 30 years and drove them side by side, the Toyota would rust and crumble like the titanic. The Landy as in a series type or Defender will always be standing proud :)
@Stefanesai If you waited 30 years and drove them side by side, the Toyota would rust and crumble like the titanic. The Landy as in a series type or Defender will always be standing proud :)
@sundown798 You should see the Defender concept that land rover have come out with... it looks nothing like the current defender... it's called the DC100.
@bazzamataz72 I am banning you from my channel. How dare you insult other like this? Who do you think YOU are? And for your information, I drive Land Cruisers not Land Rovers. Or didn't you listen? You really are a fine example of the bottom end of the human gene pool.
@beerpower123 Neither make great towing vehicles. They are both underpowered for such a job. But If I had to chose one of them, I would say the Land Cruiser, because it has a heavier gearbox and the Land Rover because you can chip the engine and get some extra power out of it (not possible with the Toyota). Another disappointment is that neither has good enough brakes for heavy towing, especially the Toyota.
@DefenderRocks Yes I think I do.I have been doing serious overlanding for 35 years, written 13 books on the subject and have owned and operated both these vehicles as expedition wagons. The reliability of the Land Rover is poor when compared to the the Toyota, Land Rover spares in much of Africa is a big problem, (unlike Toyota) while performance-wise they are well matched, the Toyota a bit more comfortable with a much more robust, Africa-proof engine.. I chose the Toyota.
i'm not sure if you have ever had a look like this at a Land Cruiser 80 series but if you ever have a chance to do that, can you make a video like this of the 80 series 4.2 turbo diesel.
It's actually my dreamcar and i would like to know what somebody with experience has to say about it.
@jan585 Take a look at more videos on 4xforum channel. like the one about the 1HZ toyota engine turbo. The 80-series 1HZ is almost identical. Did you know, some Cruiser fans say, when Toyota developed the 80-series, it was 'their finest hour'.
@4xforum I have seen the 1HZ video. The old, 12 valve HD-T from the 80 series is actually a 1HZ with a turbo.
For me the old 70 series with the 4.2 engine and the 80 series 4.2 are the legendarian Land Cruisers. The thing i don't like about the new 70 series is the latest dashboard upgrade. It makes me think about a Land Rover, not a Land Cruiser.
I red on a few places that people said that 'the Land Cruiser 80 was the perfect exemple of a reliable and luxurios (enough) 4x4'.
@jan585 They built both 100 GX and 80-series Cruisers with the HD-T engine, which is a 1HZ with a turbo charger and a different head and pistons. Excellent engine and very reliable. But heavy. But they don't put it in the 70-series, which is unfortunate. I really like the new dash - it's modern, but does have less character I agree, but it works better. Reminds me of the new Defender Puma dash - lost its character, but it works much better.
Hey, i was wondering if someone could explain about locking the differential to me. (Sorry, I'm only 16 so I'm a bit of a mechanics noob). So when climbing a steep ascent I can understand why you would want to set the gears to a low range, but surely having the diff open would be beneficial because it would allow each wheel to get a different amount of torque from the engine, stopping the wheels from spinning. Why would you want to lock the diff? Sorry if this is a really stupid question.
@robr186ify Not a stupid question at all. May I suggest you go to my website (see logo on the top right of video). Look through the top menus and you will find chapters on diff locks and why and how they should be used. In short... where there is uneven terrain, and one or more wheel loses grip, it will spin and in doing do absorb ALL the power from that axle. Locking the diff means both wheels on the axle push the vehicle, even if one loses traction. I.e. it reduces wheel spin. Andrew
I have never owned either. I own a Jeep Cherokee, and I doubt I'll ever be able to afford either of these lines. However, if given the choice tomorrow, I feel that I would most certainly opt for a Land Rover Defender (if they still sold them here in the U.S.)... comfort of ride isn't all that important to me. I simply want a hard, utilitarian box of off-road powerhouse that functions and looks and FEELS tough. Maybe I just hate the design of the Toyota. Not that it matters.
@sonbuhitsunei A very sensible response! The Toyota is every bit as utilitarian as the Defender, more so because it has no electronics, which the Land Rover has, in my view, too much. Electronics is cheaper than engineering (traction control is cheaper than diff-locks) But the Rover has bags of character, the Toyota less so.
@4xforum My main point of confusion with the Defender is the reliability of the vehicle as a whole. I hear so many polarized views, both pro and anti, that it has become quite difficult to discern the truth of the matter. I quite doubt that a vehicle of this stature and cost is likely to explode or simply conk out on you after 2 or 3 years, and at once realize that no vehicle is invincible. Simple and long-lasting (I don't need power anything, except maybe locks) seems best to me!
@sonbuhitsunei There are a saying that 'Land Cruisers have legendary reliability'. This is come about because of how owners feel about them, and I think even the owners of Land Rovers mostly agree that the Toyota product is superior in terms of reliability. I have owned both. By 100 000kms, (apart from maintenance) on both my Rovers, I had done A LOT of work keeping them running. With both my Toyotas by 100 000kms, I have done ALMOST NOTHING to keep them going. I think this is typical.
My first registered car was a 1949 Land Rover S1 which at the time of purchase was already 40 and looked as if it had seen a hard life. It was subsequently thrashed like any other teens car and never gave the me the slightest trouble. I have no doubt that Toyo make a reliable vehicle however I think that the LR unreliability and Toyo invicibility is grossly overstated and perpetuated by factors wholly unrelated to the actual respective vehicles performance. Just my opinion.
@nihil5611 You make a valid point. I've seen Toyotas break down and Rovers go on forever. There may be a trend out there, but it doesn't mean that all LRs are unreliable and all Toys are not!
@sonbuhitsunei I think the bottom lines are these: If reliability and long lasting is the priority, Toyota is the only way to go. Performance and over-landing, there is nothing in it. For character and the love of the marque, then Land Rover is unsurpassed. Toyota owners may grumble at this, but having lived in both stables, there is nothing like the camaraderie of the Land Rover marque. The Land Cruiser crowd think they are there, but they are not even close.
Are you suggesting that LR use TC instead of lockers to cut costs or due to less than thorough engineering? I wonder what the real reason is? Perhaps weight saving or the, for most anyway, the more than satisfactory TC. Nonetheless it is a moot point in Australia at least since lockers are a factory option for Defenders according to LR Aust.
@4xforum. Andrew, you are right. I do know that you set high standards for your threads. I am sorry, and it is very true that emotional statements, debates, insults and personal issues are uncalled for and it`s very good that you not allow it. As I mentioned in a previous post, your thread is really excellent. I did get a bit carried away by the claims made @dkbisme about Land Rover having "more spirit" and that "we will always win". Keep up the good work. All out there, be 4x4
@dkbisme - In Australia we have a phrase - "If you want to go into the outback, buy a
Land Cruiser or a Land Rover. If you want to come back as well, buy the Land Cruiser". Please share the Land Rover "spirit" with us, and what it really is you`re mumbling about. Also what it is that you`ll always win - please don`t say reliability.
@groenduif Please don't get into a Land Rover/Land Cruiser debate as it always ends in childish name calling. I will block users who do it. I have owned both, the spirit for both are very similar BUT, with LRs there is something more. When two pass each other, LR owners wave for no apparent reason and strangers will camp next to each other just because they have the came vehicle.. Cruiser owners rarely do. This is what is called the 'spirit'. It's the only thing I miss about my Land Rover.
@groenduif There are others.. ' LRs can go anywhere... 'it's getting back that's the problem'. This kind of stuff really annoys me. Most LR owners accept that their choice is not the most reliable around, but are prepared to live with it because they give them such satisfaction. And there is nothing wrong with that! I get very annoyed when I see bumper stickers like.. 'Attach Land Rover here', placed at the tow bar, or, 'I would rather walk than drive Jap Crap' on the back of a Cruiser.
@groenduif Nice comparison. Hey, I am from Brazil and we do not have LC available here. I am a LR huge fan and is just acquired my Defender 2007. I love both cars, they are legand as well Mercedes G série. I guess they have very similar charactheristics and will be better than the other in some specific issue. However, we must recognize they are legend and one person would be fine with any of both. Love LR and love LC :-)
Seriously how many people do you know failed to return from the outback because of a Land Rover? History and reality is quite a different to what Toyo marketing would have you believe. Consider the words of Len Biddell in his book "Too long in the Bush" who charted the path of the Gunbarrel Highway through virgin bush in a S1LR. "I am never ceased to be amazed how my little Rover would keep battling on, dune after dune, in soaring heat, day after day, never letting me down..
@4xforum - Thank you for your excellent thread. You are certainly unbiased, no one can accuse you of being less. Statistics, sales, customer surveys and all else speaks for itself - Land Cruiser is more popular, much more sold, much more preferred, more reliable and on the whole just better. "4x4xfar" is just a LR slogan and without substance. LC is not the best 4x4 ever, but certainly the most
popular and most succesfull modern day vehicle. Would you please comment on
@groenduif One thing... I don't consider the Defender to be less solid. It's a very robust vehicle. In fact the chassis might be stronger than the Land Cruiser, but the drive train isn't. The Land Cruiser is more reliable and lasts longer. Spares availability is incomparable with any manufacturer anywhere. In the Third World, Toyotas rule, no matter what model... minibusses, car, ute's, it doesn't matter. One reason is because spares are everywhere! Rover not so.
@4xforum This is not true, where i live all the toyota are in the scrap yards rusting away but there are still lots of Land Rovers that are 20+ years old and are still working hard.
@dkbisme Say that to the Land Cruiser crowd, and they will say just the opposite. The truth is, the Rover does have more character, but as far as devoted followers are concerned, I don't believe there is any difference in the passion associated with these two great vehicles.
@dkbisme@groenduif Please don't get into a Land Rover/Land Cruiser debate as it always ends in childish name calling. I will block users who do it. I have also asked groenduif to desist. tnks.
Land Rover has stood the beggest test, the test of time launched in 1948 and Land rovers are still here working for militarys, Farmers, Explorers, Mountain rescue teams, even helping preserve endangered species and lots lots more. the best 4x4xfar in my opinion
@JoshHurdissHall Not much difference I would say... The first Toyota vehicle built was a 4x4 Jeep-like vehicle, first produced in 1951. Today, Toyota Land Cruisers are far more numerous, are built in far higher numbers and are a firm favourite with NGOs, fire fighters, mining companies, wildlife television crews and mountainrescue and far more military use Toyotas, (only the UK still use Rovers) 2002 - Landrover under 2mil built. Toyota Land Cruiser over 4 million built.
I agree with you, Sir. The Algerian Armed Forces uses both the Defender and the Land Cruiser, but the Cruiser seem to be more numerous than the Rovers...Besides, Toyotas are very widespread in the Sahara desert as well as their spares.
I've got to say that this debate doen't help futur owners like myself select their future 4x4.
@algeriamacgyver Dont listen to the stupid debates, just pick the 4x4 you wont and enjoy it, dont let anyone tell you what you should or shouldnt drive.
@awbvrou - I would myself like to obtain an expert opinion(from 4xforum) on both these matters. The boobejaanspas trip in Lesotho was for me an all out disaster,
pointless and a senseless destruction of vehicles? How do the Gall boys in Oz
manage to pull such a massive and huge caravan through such bad sand, rocks and mud. The 70 Land Cruiser wagon is one helluva vehicle - absolutely amazing. Author, what is your take on these two matters. Would you kindly comment.
@4xForum - Andrew, what`s your opinion on how the Australian Gallboys go about there approach to correct/incorrect 4x4 practices. Would you think that one should learn from the way they go about it. Furthermore, what is your opinion on the "Bobbejaans Pass" trip (KykNet) in Lesotho where the LC 70 was abused & drawing a caravan over huge boulders, and the eventual breakdown of the LR Defender which was not pulling anything over this horrendous terrain at all. It did
i got a 2000 discovery 2 and it comes with CDL...my dad has a 2002 discovery 2 and his doesnt have CDL...it was optional some had it some didnt...and it makes a real difference
@A340instructor When LR broght out DIsco-2 without a CDL< I thought... What are these people thinking? I really disliked driving this vehicle off-road.
@IIFRANKII Only the auto version had a viscous coupling. The manual had none - just an open, unlockable centre differential - you had to spin the hell out of one of the wheels for traction to be transferred to the other axle. Horrible!
Somebody decided to film this like Top Gear by using a grey grad filter, what they got wrong is leaving it on the lens when you have peoples heads in shot.
i recently found a list of the ramp travel index's(a measurement of a vehicles axle articulation) of four wheel drives from the 90's and the defender had a score of 588 where as the landcruiser 80 series had a score of 593 but topping both of these was the 1992 range rover county with a massive 670,unfortunately the mercedes g wagen was not on the list,but it would be interesting to see how it's articulation would stack up against the rangie's.
@godzillaisnuclea123 These look like measurements in mm of vertical travel. The 1992 Range Rover had anti roll bars, but Range Rovers built between 1970 &1978 had no roll bars and scored a massive 780! I reckon the G-wagen would measure about 550, a little less than the Defender.
@godzillaisnuclea123 The axles and undersides are clean - nothing protrudes below the chassis rail; the departure angle, even with the LWB is better than anything else on the market; the weight balance front to rear is close to perfect with most models; low range can be engaged while still moving; axle lockers back and front; and the suspension has less tendency to pull the wheels off the ground on a side slope. While the suspension looks like the Defender, is appears to react differently.
@4xforum do you happen to know the rti for a landrover discovery 2 with ACE,i know the disco 1 has a score of 588 with antiroll bars,I have been told that discovery 2's are more flexible.
@3yearappentice I have owned and operated two 105 Cruisers. It is WAY, WAY more comfortable on road, with suspension upgrade such as OME, it can carry the same load. On corrugations it is a FAR better handling machine, quieter, smoother and has ABS & A/Bs which makes it much safer. Off road, if the Defender & Cruiser 70 are 10/10, the 105 is 9,5/10. I think the 105 is the world's best compromise on-roader/expedition wagon. I would only swap mine for a Merc-Gwagen, which is 11/10 on both counts.
@4xforum thanks i appreciate your reply i bought my second 105 series and was not sure how good it was compared to these 2 beasts. but the reason i bought it a second time was because its the best vehicle iv ever driven. cheers mate
I love the TC land rovers offer i drive a D2 but I now have Lockers, why didnt land rovers offer the electric locker that toyota did WHYYYYY!!!
Im a disco guy simply for the power and the cock pit it just feels right, My second vehicle would be the land cruiser its the only toyota i actually like!
@naval8viator All D1s have the CDL, The only D2 to offer the CDL is the 04, But a CDL is not a Diff Lock a CDL is only a diff split of a true 50% in front, 50% in rear.
@tankxE80 All D1's have the CDL, but some need a shifter swap out to engage them--the latter D1's started the phase out by including a CDL but not including a way to engage it. I realize that a CDL is not the same as a true locker, but a CDL is better than just straight TC.
@naval8viator Like the early D2's you had from the ending yr of 1999-2002 CDL was there but could not be engaged but the 03 didn't even have a CDL and needed the entire unit swapped, I do truly appreciate my CDL and it is a bragging right for all rovers to other 4x4s(jeep, yota) do not have a true front-rear power split, they off road around the ball park of 30%front-70%rear because there manufactures were just not smart enough Lol
@s22sk Land Rovers got a rap for being unreliable because you have to keep up on maintenance--which most people fail to do. LRs are great vehicles when properly maintained, but as soon as you fall behind its game over. Its a Land Rover, not a Toyota, they must be treated differently.
owned both the def and the cruiser, however now have a gq nissan patrol and it's 100 times better than the def and the cruiser, only compromise is slighty less ground clearance but far better on and off road.
The anti-stall has got NOTHING to do with the lurching forwards that happened when he went downhill. That's getting cross-axled, so no engine braking. Traction control won't help there either. Thats where diff locks come into play.
had defender never really maintained it, look it drove, kinda, missing a few bits, ran okay, oil looked like dog diarea, but hey gave it a redneck tune up it was fine, still missing bits though, and the oil still looked like diahrea but i guess we have to make comprimises in the name of lazy i even duct taped the leaks in the tires (well really i duct taped leaks anywhere) and when i drained the transmission oil to use in the engine i filled the tranny with vaseline instead that went not so well
lol, they keep stepping on the gas of the land crover waiting for it regain traction, but when the land cruiser starts spinning just a little they immediately stop the LC and turn on the lockers. I would rather have the LC because I do not want to risk spinning any tires climbing up a hill and then have my truck roll down.
be interesting to see a landcruiser 80 series over this they are supposed to the the best landcruiser of them all still take the lr though just love em
i love landies gonna buy a 1972 series 3 shortwheelbase diesel landrover owners always seem to be more passionate about their vehicles compared to other 4x4s
did anybody notice when it came to the downhill bit that he drove the landrover faster over the edge than the piece of shit and then said the piece of shit was better as it had a bigger engine which makes no difference when going down hill
@spliffthedog Sorry, but if you think a bigger engine makes no difference going downhill, then you need to know that it does... the compression, not the power output.
@spliffthedog Actually, this Toyota's engine has such high compression, that low second us used for all but the most extreme downhill slopes. Otherwise it crawls so slowly that it almost stops. The smaller, turbo Rover's engine has poor compression by comparison so low first has to be used more often. And on dune slopes, low first, even with the Land Rover is sometimes too low, and low second is the better, safer choice.
maybe do the test agen in 35+ years with the same cars and see which is best...... plenty of 50 year old landys in daily work .... i think the tlc will be scrap waaay before then..........mind you this new landy maybe not out live my 2a
My God this channel is Perfect!
Thank you very much for bringing these videos.
I just want to keep appreciating your work..
i7rs 2 weeks ago
@i7rs visit my website, 4xforum dot com. crs Andrew
4xforum 2 weeks ago
Funny, whenever there is a Brit reviewing a Land Rover it's always superior. I'm sure it's a fine vehicle but to be honest LR just does not have the reliability record of Toyota. If you take a good Jeep and put lockers on it then you have a good 4x4 and much cheaper. The AMC inline 6 is a strong reliable motor too. In this case though I would bet that most people would rather have the Toyota over the LR. How can anyone say one vehicle is definitively better than the other except in quality??
gekko14 2 weeks ago
@gekko14 I have owned four L Rovers, five Toyotas and two Mercs. I love them all - but in the end, you will see, I chose the Toyota. And i am a Brit - doing my very best to be unbaised. Today I have a Toyota, not a Rover.
4xforum 2 weeks ago
The best Offroader ever is Jeep!
kingermanfool 3 weeks ago
70% of Land Rovers are still on the road because Landy owners have to shell-out to keep them on the road! Try and find a 15 yo + landy thats still original and that has been used daily that isnt knackered!!
gp1585 3 weeks ago
@gp1585 Their are old Land Rovers every where here in the north east. I know many people just in my coastal town who own them. They make great coastal trucks and hold up to the salt air around here. You just don't notice.
sundown798 3 weeks ago
Defender best 4x4xfar
gwilym6902 1 month ago
Toyota Land Cruiser 70-SW
Khalifah320 1 month ago
Off-road might be better have Wrangler than two of those
symmetry08 1 month ago
@symmetry08 You make a good point. LWB Wrangler matches them well off road - maybe not better, but every bit as good.
4xforum 4 weeks ago
This video is biased toward the LR, the only thing here that is clear is that the Toyota should lock up the axles before it looses traction, this is far superior to traction control, try and do a sandy steep hill clime and see who gets the highest,lol, the Defender wouldn't get too far unless you could turn it off, then it would have 2 open diffs, not very good, so the Toy wins here hands down, it wouldn't require a brake job after heavy wheeling.
adsabine1 1 month ago
@adsabine1 I am not sure how you can say it is biased. While I tried to be as neutral as possible, at the end, i chose the Toyota. If you read the comments, you will see that LR owners think i am pro LC and LR owners think I am pro LC. I think this is proof enough that the test was as unbiased as humanly possible.
4xforum 4 weeks ago
@4xforum You made a wise choice, I thought that this vidoe was a little hard on the Toys lockers, I do not like traction control at all, this four wheeling is not that extreme, if you were to push it to the limits the Toyota with the lockers engaged would do stuff the LR could only dream of, this is because traction control is not for the extreme stuff, in my opinion it doesn't belong on 4x4s at all.
adsabine1 4 weeks ago
@adsabine1 I agree entirely! I would take lockers without hesitation over TC. But for inexperienced drivers, lockers can be very hard to handle, as the steering as effected and they can feel as if they are losing control.
4xforum 3 weeks ago
@4xforum You are clearly an experienced four wheeler, I think anyone with selectable lockers would eventually figure it out, I remember getting stuck in my driveway in the snow with TC in my loaner car, an hr later my opened diff car blasted out of there, it was black and white, and on the loaner car, I couldn't turn the TC off, it was really pathetic to watch, I should post it on Y-tube, It was filmed.
adsabine1 3 weeks ago
land cruiser looks better and stronger
maxthehulk 2 months ago
240p we meet again
DigitalExplosives 4 months ago 2
@nihil5611 - To change history is not possible. The claim that LR is "the best 4x4xfar" is arrogant, another cheap shot and grabbing at straws. Compare your other LR product the Freelander to the Hilux, Fortuner or any Toyota product and then really feel ashamed. Why is it so really very very hard for the Rover-zealots to admit LR`s poor sales, abhorant reliability, poor 2nd hand value and trademark mechanical failures on gearboxes, drive trains, side shafts and electricals.
groenduif 4 months ago
@groenduif You forgot that 70% of Land Rovers are still on the road. I like to see a estimate of the Land Cruiser from 1951 to date left on the road. I'm sure their are more late models out their and less pre 1980's left.
sundown798 3 weeks ago
@sundown798 70% of Land Rovers are still on the road because Landy owners shell-out to keep them there! Did you know that 40% of Land Rovers profits go back into repairing 52% of their 4x4s sold today??
gp1585 3 weeks ago
We in the Arab Gulf countries using both cars but we are confident that there is no comparison between any car on Earth used for off-road with the Toyota Land Cruiser 70 series
dodo5555500 4 months ago
@dodo5555500 Hah, I do miss every second car being a Land Rover like what I experience in Qatar for 2+ years. Back in Aus and there are so many small cars, lol. Sucks balls we pay $1.50/L for unleaded.
AdamAus85 2 months ago
That's why you throw some lunchbox lockers and a spring over axle conversion on an old 40 series Land Cruiser.
JadedRockStar84 4 months ago
@Chroma2021 - Refering to the Land Cruiser as a "cheap copy" is a cheap shot, but has provided all with a good laugh and entertainment. Price wise the
LC is all but cheap, when was the last time you visited your local Toyota dealer. New LC`s are horrendously expensive. They are excellent vehicles and have outsold LR worldwide. Toyota started producing the 4x4 LC predecessor in the 1940`s. It is all but a copy, not even a cheap copy - which is really a cheap comment.
groenduif 5 months ago
@groenduif
"Toyota started producing the 4x4 LC predecessor in the 1940`s"
The AK was a failed prototype and there was no relationship between it and the first LC that appeared in the 50's.
I understand that you Toyo-zealots feel obliged to attempt to rewrite history, after all that's what Toyota's marketing has done all along. For example, in Australia they claim that Toyota singlehandedly built the Snowy Mountain Scheme, which is an outright lie.
nihil5611 4 months ago
I choose the Defender .. alot more fun and more of an experience. I agree that "chick magnet" is bull .. clearly the driver isnt capable of getting any nd needs a car to do it for him. The LC is a cool car, very good off road vehicle, but the Defender appeals to some people way more than others, thats all? The Land Rover has so much more pedigree than any other car, they have 'something about them' that is just better to me. Iv had no problems with my Defender 110 Td5, she takes me ANYWHERE ! :)
justtocause 5 months ago
Why have Toyota outsold Land Rover in Austrailia and Africa?
gp1585 6 months ago
"offroadability" Is that a real word?
CrazyMalone 6 months ago
Land Rover 110 <3
landrover68815 6 months ago
hmmm good test.. both seem to be great cars : )
BadWithNames123 6 months ago
@4xforum @2:05 The driver is not hanging his hand out of the window like u said in pt.1 but still most of them hang it out
KarlGoth 6 months ago
@ihaveairlockers - Well done on ye mate. Yeah bloody good question with not any
answers yet. Why do most armies, police, terrorists, mining companies, explorers,
archeologists, tour and wildlife operators, the entire UN, surveyors, drillers, Australians, outbackers, travellers, emergency services, Namibians, the entire Botswana etc. prefer the same vehicle? You see, cool looks, chick magnetism, body panels and all the other crap can never substitute reliability, engineering and
peace of mind.
groenduif 7 months ago
@JacenDex - I have owned and driven many off road trips with a LR Defender. It is very good in 4x4. But, the ride, seating and finish is inferior to that of the LC. I had many snapped side shafts, drive train breakages and poor overall reliability. After switching to a Toyota LC, all of that has changed. Praising aluminium bodies, chick magnets, appeal, coolness, looks and culture is bull, irrelevant & not true. "Best 4x4xFar" is also bull. Go for a good and reliable 4x4, go Toyota LC.
groenduif 7 months ago
I like this test. The Defender is the Rover I would consider. Still a very cool looking vehicle.
MrAristes 7 months ago
omg defender all the way i would always buy a landy!!!
SuperSlashrocker 8 months ago 2
Landy HO!
koteshub 8 months ago
At 4.45 new Defender is a fiasco. I have 300 tdi in my LR Defender 110 and i can brake "like a glove" even in 2nd Low range perfectly(1st too slow) up to 30 degrees. in 1st low range even 45% is done withoul slipping. It looks damm scarry, though and with duratorque engine i wouldnt have enough courage to do such gradients.
Im not opposed to tech devenlopement, but this is a damm disaster. Potentially dangerous one. i hope they would fix it soon.
FelixCroatia 8 months ago
bullshit the toyota is the best
52684 8 months ago
Great review ...
ermollejuo 9 months ago
sometimes the traction controll is better then a diff lock sometimes is the other way round with the defender ou can have both
a6km 9 months ago
Anyone who's spent time in Australia, the wilds of Africa, the deserts of the middle east or in the SE Asian jungles will tell you that there is only 1 choice when it comes to a 4wd you can trust your life with.
There's a reason why mining companies, explorer's, the UN, surveyors, drillers, outback property owners, travellers, terrorists, emergency services, police, and military all use one brand of vehicle.
Anyone who knows, knows which vehicle to rely on to bring you and your gear home.
ihaveairlockers 9 months ago
@ihaveairlockers Here comes the landcruiser......... Good on ya mate......
MrNipsi 9 months ago
landcruisers 4.5L not 4.2L
isamike 9 months ago
The lurching can be avoided by the commonly referred to manual hill descent control, tapping on the brakes. Btw i love both vehicles but have a defender 90 which has done 200,000 miles without breaking anything and hasnt even rotted away 'yet' haha all it needed was someone to look after it, thats hiw these common problems with lansrovers come from, Neglect! Look after them and they'le look afta you :)
jskelton1994 9 months ago
@JoshHurdissHall - Since when are the comments on this thread stupid. This is a great forum for 4x4 unthusiasts to voice an opinion or ask questions, which Andrew
answers from years and years of first hand knowledge and experience which is second to none. Not all posters are experts, and certain comments are sometimes off the track but are really not "stupid debates". One thing I do agree with, buy the vehicle you want but do consider the proven pros and cons of differrent vehicles.
groenduif 10 months ago
@Sundown798 - I agree, LR is in a class of it`s own. The class which characterizes
unreliability, gearbox and drive train collapses, electronics failures, extremely poor
re-sale value, slow, uncomfortable seating/driving and a lorry like experience. Less than 5% vehicles are near any ocean or ever rust anyway - it is not an issue. I`ve
owned both. Unbolting panels, rust etc is absolutely irrelevant. Important stuff are reliability, resale value, comfort, engineering. In these Toyota rules.
groenduif 10 months ago
I would like to see the same comparison through steep soft sand.
hawkeyesurfer 10 months ago
@hawkeyesurfer What do you reckon would be the result? I reckon, with same tyres at same pressures, not much difference. I have driven both in these conditions, although the Defender I drove had the V8 petrol engine. The Toyota engine is a slogger, unlike the Defender's turbo-diesel, and at slow speed with high power, I think I would prefer the Toyota.
4xforum 10 months ago
@hawkeyesurfer watch?v=rkY1bybbUDo&playnext=1%C2%AD&videos=qzvu-M33PLw%EF%BB%BF
in short... the defender pwnd the cruiser.
skinnyfish111 8 months ago
@hawkeyesurfer I think the Deefa would be better in soft sand, assuming equal tyres - because the defender is quite a bit lighter, infact it is only just over 2 tonne.
browndogrider1962 5 months ago
@hawkeyesurfer I reckon the Deefa would be better in soft sand, assuming equal tyres, as the Defender is so much lighter. Only just over 2 tonne.
browndogrider1962 5 months ago
nice
would love to see the comparative look of the mercedes g wagon and landcruiser and defender
These are the best 4x4's in the world I think
hope to find a test sommetime
MichielDT 10 months ago
Nice to see ONE (and seiously, I actually do think this is the ONLY ONE) youtube vid with opposing faction 4x4s, have a comments section that isn't a warzone of name-calling and profanities! And more, people respecting the poster 'cos he knows what he is talking about (other people on YT know their stuff as well, but doesn't stop them getting sworn at unfortunately)...
cl998 10 months ago 6
@cl998 I monitor the posts and if anyone so much as flings a single insult at another or his or her opinion, then i block them without asking questions. As a result we have what was intended: an unbiased test with varied, often biased but measured opinion. I think it has been successful. But I still don't understand why some people get so emotionally entrapped with what is, after all, nothing more than machines built by huge, faceless corporate companies.
4xforum 10 months ago 6
But you can take apart the whole Landy with a 32 piece tool set.
sundown798 11 months ago 12
@sundown798 My Defender and Range Rovers had imperial engine nuts and metric body nuts. A 32-piece tool set was not enough. This Land Cruiser's engine has no electronics whatsoever. All Land Rovers have engine management systems, essential if they are to be sold in Europe... needing in addition to the 32-piece tool set, a laptop with the right software. Land Cruisers are no more or no less difficult to work on than Land Rovers and in Africa, Toyota spares are everywhere! Unfortunately, not so LR
4xforum 11 months ago
@4xforum Was really joking as you would need several but more common tools. Directing more to the body panels and not taking apart any electronics. Can you unbolt the Toyota body panels from the truck piece by piece like a Land Rover? Are the Toyota Panels all welded together which I think it is. I have personally stripped down a older Land Rover with common tools down to the bare frame in a weekend. The Landy aluminum body would outlast the Toyotas steele by decades. Landy is a chick magnet!
sundown798 11 months ago 10
@sundown798 Many valid points. Toyotas are welded and while Land Rover LTD are not champs at anti- corrosion, Toyotas are at times poor. The while the Rover's body is alloy the chassis is not, nor is the firewall and other important bits, which rust just like any other car. But anti-corrosion measures is one of the Cruiser's downfalls. Older LRs bodies are easier to work on, no doubt. Mechanically, they are very similar - I having worked on both, and they take a similar effort to fix.
4xforum 11 months ago
@4xforum If you have a tad extra money to spend, you can buy frames hot dip GALVANIZED and with the combination of the aluminum body panels, would last forever. The only other part that is steel is the firewall, door bottoms and im sure there is someone doing those too by now. If you live by the ocean and want something to last, Land Rover is still king. The fact that I can strip this all in my backyard, still don't compare to Cruiser. Landy's are in a class of their own period.
sundown798 11 months ago
@sundown798 And yes. LRs are more of an appeal to the chicks... in the UK maybe. But here in South Africa, Land Cruiser pickups with a bit of equipment bolted on, has the same effect. Yes, the Rover has much more character... no doubt about it! Land Rover spares in South Africa are upward of twice as expensive as Toyota spares. I made a funny video called, A 'humorous look at the Land Rover cult', which you may enjoy...on my website, 4xforum.com.
4xforum 11 months ago
@sundown798 But probably you won't need to take the Toyota apart as often :-)
Stefanesai 3 months ago
@Stefanesai If you waited 30 years and drove them side by side, the Toyota would rust and crumble like the titanic. The Landy as in a series type or Defender will always be standing proud :)
sundown798 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Stefanesai If you waited 30 years and drove them side by side, the Toyota would rust and crumble like the titanic. The Landy as in a series type or Defender will always be standing proud :)
sundown798 3 months ago
@sundown798 You should see the Defender concept that land rover have come out with... it looks nothing like the current defender... it's called the DC100.
04smallmj 1 month ago
@bazzamataz72 I am banning you from my channel. How dare you insult other like this? Who do you think YOU are? And for your information, I drive Land Cruisers not Land Rovers. Or didn't you listen? You really are a fine example of the bottom end of the human gene pool.
4xforum 11 months ago
which would you say to buy for towing a heavy cattle box ??
beerpower123 1 year ago
@beerpower123 Neither make great towing vehicles. They are both underpowered for such a job. But If I had to chose one of them, I would say the Land Cruiser, because it has a heavier gearbox and the Land Rover because you can chip the engine and get some extra power out of it (not possible with the Toyota). Another disappointment is that neither has good enough brakes for heavy towing, especially the Toyota.
4xforum 1 year ago
@4xforum Do you know what you're talking about?! The Land Rover would be the best for the job!
DefenderRocks 11 months ago
@DefenderRocks Yes I think I do.I have been doing serious overlanding for 35 years, written 13 books on the subject and have owned and operated both these vehicles as expedition wagons. The reliability of the Land Rover is poor when compared to the the Toyota, Land Rover spares in much of Africa is a big problem, (unlike Toyota) while performance-wise they are well matched, the Toyota a bit more comfortable with a much more robust, Africa-proof engine.. I chose the Toyota.
4xforum 11 months ago
i'm not sure if you have ever had a look like this at a Land Cruiser 80 series but if you ever have a chance to do that, can you make a video like this of the 80 series 4.2 turbo diesel.
It's actually my dreamcar and i would like to know what somebody with experience has to say about it.
thanks
jan585 1 year ago
@jan585 Take a look at more videos on 4xforum channel. like the one about the 1HZ toyota engine turbo. The 80-series 1HZ is almost identical. Did you know, some Cruiser fans say, when Toyota developed the 80-series, it was 'their finest hour'.
4xforum 1 year ago
@4xforum I have seen the 1HZ video. The old, 12 valve HD-T from the 80 series is actually a 1HZ with a turbo.
For me the old 70 series with the 4.2 engine and the 80 series 4.2 are the legendarian Land Cruisers. The thing i don't like about the new 70 series is the latest dashboard upgrade. It makes me think about a Land Rover, not a Land Cruiser.
I red on a few places that people said that 'the Land Cruiser 80 was the perfect exemple of a reliable and luxurios (enough) 4x4'.
jan585 1 year ago
@jan585 They built both 100 GX and 80-series Cruisers with the HD-T engine, which is a 1HZ with a turbo charger and a different head and pistons. Excellent engine and very reliable. But heavy. But they don't put it in the 70-series, which is unfortunate. I really like the new dash - it's modern, but does have less character I agree, but it works better. Reminds me of the new Defender Puma dash - lost its character, but it works much better.
4xforum 1 year ago
@4xforum but australia gets the new 1vd-fte and now the 70 is a real eater of miles.
MrNipsi 9 months ago
Hey, i was wondering if someone could explain about locking the differential to me. (Sorry, I'm only 16 so I'm a bit of a mechanics noob). So when climbing a steep ascent I can understand why you would want to set the gears to a low range, but surely having the diff open would be beneficial because it would allow each wheel to get a different amount of torque from the engine, stopping the wheels from spinning. Why would you want to lock the diff? Sorry if this is a really stupid question.
robr186ify 1 year ago
@robr186ify Not a stupid question at all. May I suggest you go to my website (see logo on the top right of video). Look through the top menus and you will find chapters on diff locks and why and how they should be used. In short... where there is uneven terrain, and one or more wheel loses grip, it will spin and in doing do absorb ALL the power from that axle. Locking the diff means both wheels on the axle push the vehicle, even if one loses traction. I.e. it reduces wheel spin. Andrew
4xforum 1 year ago
which one would win in a tug of war on a road ??
beerpower123 1 year ago
@beerpower123 The one with the lowest tyre pressures and strongest clutch
4xforum 1 year ago
I like ur practical reviews sir...
christiaanajcronje 1 year ago
I have never owned either. I own a Jeep Cherokee, and I doubt I'll ever be able to afford either of these lines. However, if given the choice tomorrow, I feel that I would most certainly opt for a Land Rover Defender (if they still sold them here in the U.S.)... comfort of ride isn't all that important to me. I simply want a hard, utilitarian box of off-road powerhouse that functions and looks and FEELS tough. Maybe I just hate the design of the Toyota. Not that it matters.
sonbuhitsunei 1 year ago
@sonbuhitsunei A very sensible response! The Toyota is every bit as utilitarian as the Defender, more so because it has no electronics, which the Land Rover has, in my view, too much. Electronics is cheaper than engineering (traction control is cheaper than diff-locks) But the Rover has bags of character, the Toyota less so.
4xforum 1 year ago
@4xforum My main point of confusion with the Defender is the reliability of the vehicle as a whole. I hear so many polarized views, both pro and anti, that it has become quite difficult to discern the truth of the matter. I quite doubt that a vehicle of this stature and cost is likely to explode or simply conk out on you after 2 or 3 years, and at once realize that no vehicle is invincible. Simple and long-lasting (I don't need power anything, except maybe locks) seems best to me!
sonbuhitsunei 1 year ago
@sonbuhitsunei There are a saying that 'Land Cruisers have legendary reliability'. This is come about because of how owners feel about them, and I think even the owners of Land Rovers mostly agree that the Toyota product is superior in terms of reliability. I have owned both. By 100 000kms, (apart from maintenance) on both my Rovers, I had done A LOT of work keeping them running. With both my Toyotas by 100 000kms, I have done ALMOST NOTHING to keep them going. I think this is typical.
4xforum 1 year ago
@4xforum
My first registered car was a 1949 Land Rover S1 which at the time of purchase was already 40 and looked as if it had seen a hard life. It was subsequently thrashed like any other teens car and never gave the me the slightest trouble. I have no doubt that Toyo make a reliable vehicle however I think that the LR unreliability and Toyo invicibility is grossly overstated and perpetuated by factors wholly unrelated to the actual respective vehicles performance. Just my opinion.
nihil5611 1 year ago
@nihil5611 You make a valid point. I've seen Toyotas break down and Rovers go on forever. There may be a trend out there, but it doesn't mean that all LRs are unreliable and all Toys are not!
4xforum 1 year ago
@sonbuhitsunei I think the bottom lines are these: If reliability and long lasting is the priority, Toyota is the only way to go. Performance and over-landing, there is nothing in it. For character and the love of the marque, then Land Rover is unsurpassed. Toyota owners may grumble at this, but having lived in both stables, there is nothing like the camaraderie of the Land Rover marque. The Land Cruiser crowd think they are there, but they are not even close.
4xforum 1 year ago
@4xforum
Are you suggesting that LR use TC instead of lockers to cut costs or due to less than thorough engineering? I wonder what the real reason is? Perhaps weight saving or the, for most anyway, the more than satisfactory TC. Nonetheless it is a moot point in Australia at least since lockers are a factory option for Defenders according to LR Aust.
nihil5611 1 year ago
A good review, much better than what I see with the silly American reviews and their silly after-market product for this and that.
Reverendjim1 1 year ago
@4xforum. Andrew, you are right. I do know that you set high standards for your threads. I am sorry, and it is very true that emotional statements, debates, insults and personal issues are uncalled for and it`s very good that you not allow it. As I mentioned in a previous post, your thread is really excellent. I did get a bit carried away by the claims made @dkbisme about Land Rover having "more spirit" and that "we will always win". Keep up the good work. All out there, be 4x4
responsible.
groenduif 1 year ago
@dkbisme - In Australia we have a phrase - "If you want to go into the outback, buy a
Land Cruiser or a Land Rover. If you want to come back as well, buy the Land Cruiser". Please share the Land Rover "spirit" with us, and what it really is you`re mumbling about. Also what it is that you`ll always win - please don`t say reliability.
groenduif 1 year ago
@groenduif Please don't get into a Land Rover/Land Cruiser debate as it always ends in childish name calling. I will block users who do it. I have owned both, the spirit for both are very similar BUT, with LRs there is something more. When two pass each other, LR owners wave for no apparent reason and strangers will camp next to each other just because they have the came vehicle.. Cruiser owners rarely do. This is what is called the 'spirit'. It's the only thing I miss about my Land Rover.
4xforum 1 year ago
@groenduif There are others.. ' LRs can go anywhere... 'it's getting back that's the problem'. This kind of stuff really annoys me. Most LR owners accept that their choice is not the most reliable around, but are prepared to live with it because they give them such satisfaction. And there is nothing wrong with that! I get very annoyed when I see bumper stickers like.. 'Attach Land Rover here', placed at the tow bar, or, 'I would rather walk than drive Jap Crap' on the back of a Cruiser.
4xforum 1 year ago
@groenduif Nice comparison. Hey, I am from Brazil and we do not have LC available here. I am a LR huge fan and is just acquired my Defender 2007. I love both cars, they are legand as well Mercedes G série. I guess they have very similar charactheristics and will be better than the other in some specific issue. However, we must recognize they are legend and one person would be fine with any of both. Love LR and love LC :-)
Best regards from Brazil guys!!!
RR1390 1 year ago
@groenduif
Seriously how many people do you know failed to return from the outback because of a Land Rover? History and reality is quite a different to what Toyo marketing would have you believe. Consider the words of Len Biddell in his book "Too long in the Bush" who charted the path of the Gunbarrel Highway through virgin bush in a S1LR. "I am never ceased to be amazed how my little Rover would keep battling on, dune after dune, in soaring heat, day after day, never letting me down..
nihil5611 1 year ago
@4xforum - Thank you for your excellent thread. You are certainly unbiased, no one can accuse you of being less. Statistics, sales, customer surveys and all else speaks for itself - Land Cruiser is more popular, much more sold, much more preferred, more reliable and on the whole just better. "4x4xfar" is just a LR slogan and without substance. LC is not the best 4x4 ever, but certainly the most
popular and most succesfull modern day vehicle. Would you please comment on
my previous post, thanks
groenduif 1 year ago
@groenduif One thing... I don't consider the Defender to be less solid. It's a very robust vehicle. In fact the chassis might be stronger than the Land Cruiser, but the drive train isn't. The Land Cruiser is more reliable and lasts longer. Spares availability is incomparable with any manufacturer anywhere. In the Third World, Toyotas rule, no matter what model... minibusses, car, ute's, it doesn't matter. One reason is because spares are everywhere! Rover not so.
4xforum 1 year ago
@4xforum This is not true, where i live all the toyota are in the scrap yards rusting away but there are still lots of Land Rovers that are 20+ years old and are still working hard.
JoshHurdissHall 1 year ago
landrover have more spirit than toyota though and we will always win
dkbisme 1 year ago
@dkbisme Say that to the Land Cruiser crowd, and they will say just the opposite. The truth is, the Rover does have more character, but as far as devoted followers are concerned, I don't believe there is any difference in the passion associated with these two great vehicles.
4xforum 1 year ago
@dkbisme @groenduif Please don't get into a Land Rover/Land Cruiser debate as it always ends in childish name calling. I will block users who do it. I have also asked groenduif to desist. tnks.
4xforum 1 year ago
Land Rover has stood the beggest test, the test of time launched in 1948 and Land rovers are still here working for militarys, Farmers, Explorers, Mountain rescue teams, even helping preserve endangered species and lots lots more. the best 4x4xfar in my opinion
JoshHurdissHall 1 year ago
@JoshHurdissHall Not much difference I would say... The first Toyota vehicle built was a 4x4 Jeep-like vehicle, first produced in 1951. Today, Toyota Land Cruisers are far more numerous, are built in far higher numbers and are a firm favourite with NGOs, fire fighters, mining companies, wildlife television crews and mountainrescue and far more military use Toyotas, (only the UK still use Rovers) 2002 - Landrover under 2mil built. Toyota Land Cruiser over 4 million built.
4xforum 1 year ago
@JoshHurdissHall
I agree with you, Sir. The Algerian Armed Forces uses both the Defender and the Land Cruiser, but the Cruiser seem to be more numerous than the Rovers...Besides, Toyotas are very widespread in the Sahara desert as well as their spares.
I've got to say that this debate doen't help futur owners like myself select their future 4x4.
algeriamacgyver 10 months ago
@algeriamacgyver Dont listen to the stupid debates, just pick the 4x4 you wont and enjoy it, dont let anyone tell you what you should or shouldnt drive.
JoshHurdissHall 10 months ago 2
@JoshHurdissHall
I'll, Sir, but I''d be happy to compare between the defender and the cruiser on a scientific basis.
algeriamacgyver 10 months ago
@awbvrou - I would myself like to obtain an expert opinion(from 4xforum) on both these matters. The boobejaanspas trip in Lesotho was for me an all out disaster,
pointless and a senseless destruction of vehicles? How do the Gall boys in Oz
manage to pull such a massive and huge caravan through such bad sand, rocks and mud. The 70 Land Cruiser wagon is one helluva vehicle - absolutely amazing. Author, what is your take on these two matters. Would you kindly comment.
groenduif 1 year ago
@groenduif I wrote about the debacle on Baboons pass in an article on 4xforum. Shameful. Don't know anything about the Gall boys.
4xforum 1 year ago
@groenduif I wrote about the Baboons pass incident on the 4xforum. Shameful. DOn't know about the Gallboys.
4xforum 1 year ago
@4xForum - Andrew, what`s your opinion on how the Australian Gallboys go about there approach to correct/incorrect 4x4 practices. Would you think that one should learn from the way they go about it. Furthermore, what is your opinion on the "Bobbejaans Pass" trip (KykNet) in Lesotho where the LC 70 was abused & drawing a caravan over huge boulders, and the eventual breakdown of the LR Defender which was not pulling anything over this horrendous terrain at all. It did
not seem well done!!!
awbvrou 1 year ago
@awbvrou I wrote about the Baboons pass incident on the 4xforum. Shameful. DOn't know about the Gallboys.
4xforum 1 year ago
thats why i would choice a Nissan Patrol Y60
ThatHoodNiggaBrik 1 year ago
Toyota all the way.
mario102395 1 year ago
i got a 2000 discovery 2 and it comes with CDL...my dad has a 2002 discovery 2 and his doesnt have CDL...it was optional some had it some didnt...and it makes a real difference
A340instructor 1 year ago
@A340instructor When LR broght out DIsco-2 without a CDL< I thought... What are these people thinking? I really disliked driving this vehicle off-road.
4xforum 1 year ago
@4xforum They DO have a CDL but it is automatically engaged through a viscous coupling, much like a LSD. Cheers.
IIFRANKII 1 year ago
@IIFRANKII Only the auto version had a viscous coupling. The manual had none - just an open, unlockable centre differential - you had to spin the hell out of one of the wheels for traction to be transferred to the other axle. Horrible!
4xforum 1 year ago
@4xforum do you happen to know the RTI score for the discovery 2 with ACE
godzillaisnuclea123 1 year ago
@godzillaisnuclea123 Don't know, sorry. A
4xforum 1 year ago
Somebody decided to film this like Top Gear by using a grey grad filter, what they got wrong is leaving it on the lens when you have peoples heads in shot.
Rikitocker 1 year ago
i recently found a list of the ramp travel index's(a measurement of a vehicles axle articulation) of four wheel drives from the 90's and the defender had a score of 588 where as the landcruiser 80 series had a score of 593 but topping both of these was the 1992 range rover county with a massive 670,unfortunately the mercedes g wagen was not on the list,but it would be interesting to see how it's articulation would stack up against the rangie's.
godzillaisnuclea123 1 year ago
@godzillaisnuclea123 These look like measurements in mm of vertical travel. The 1992 Range Rover had anti roll bars, but Range Rovers built between 1970 &1978 had no roll bars and scored a massive 780! I reckon the G-wagen would measure about 550, a little less than the Defender.
4xforum 1 year ago
@4xforum So what makes the G wagen so good offroad if it is not it's axle articulation.
godzillaisnuclea123 1 year ago
@4xforum what makes the G-wagen so good off road then if it's not massive aticulation?
godzillaisnuclea123 1 year ago
@godzillaisnuclea123 The axles and undersides are clean - nothing protrudes below the chassis rail; the departure angle, even with the LWB is better than anything else on the market; the weight balance front to rear is close to perfect with most models; low range can be engaged while still moving; axle lockers back and front; and the suspension has less tendency to pull the wheels off the ground on a side slope. While the suspension looks like the Defender, is appears to react differently.
4xforum 1 year ago
@4xforum so overall just better engineered than the land rover.All of those factors make up an awesome offroad machine.
godzillaisnuclea123 1 year ago
@4xforum do you happen to know the rti for a landrover discovery 2 with ACE,i know the disco 1 has a score of 588 with antiroll bars,I have been told that discovery 2's are more flexible.
godzillaisnuclea123 1 year ago
does anyone know how a 105 series landcruiser will come up against these 2?
3yearappentice 1 year ago
@3yearappentice I have owned and operated two 105 Cruisers. It is WAY, WAY more comfortable on road, with suspension upgrade such as OME, it can carry the same load. On corrugations it is a FAR better handling machine, quieter, smoother and has ABS & A/Bs which makes it much safer. Off road, if the Defender & Cruiser 70 are 10/10, the 105 is 9,5/10. I think the 105 is the world's best compromise on-roader/expedition wagon. I would only swap mine for a Merc-Gwagen, which is 11/10 on both counts.
4xforum 1 year ago
@4xforum thanks i appreciate your reply i bought my second 105 series and was not sure how good it was compared to these 2 beasts. but the reason i bought it a second time was because its the best vehicle iv ever driven. cheers mate
3yearappentice 1 year ago
latest defender beaten by a 25 year old ctuiser lol
toyota!!!!!!!!!!!
Ayrton4everrr 1 year ago
I love the TC land rovers offer i drive a D2 but I now have Lockers, why didnt land rovers offer the electric locker that toyota did WHYYYYY!!!
Im a disco guy simply for the power and the cock pit it just feels right, My second vehicle would be the land cruiser its the only toyota i actually like!
tankxE80 1 year ago
@tankxE80 My 2004 Disco came stock with a CDL and TC. Some models of the DII have a CDL and some don't.
naval8viator 1 year ago
@naval8viator All D1s have the CDL, The only D2 to offer the CDL is the 04, But a CDL is not a Diff Lock a CDL is only a diff split of a true 50% in front, 50% in rear.
tankxE80 1 year ago
@tankxE80 All D1's have the CDL, but some need a shifter swap out to engage them--the latter D1's started the phase out by including a CDL but not including a way to engage it. I realize that a CDL is not the same as a true locker, but a CDL is better than just straight TC.
naval8viator 1 year ago
@naval8viator Like the early D2's you had from the ending yr of 1999-2002 CDL was there but could not be engaged but the 03 didn't even have a CDL and needed the entire unit swapped, I do truly appreciate my CDL and it is a bragging right for all rovers to other 4x4s(jeep, yota) do not have a true front-rear power split, they off road around the ball park of 30%front-70%rear because there manufactures were just not smart enough Lol
tankxE80 1 year ago
Land Rover is a little bit better in off-road, but Land Cruiser is more reliable.
s22sk 1 year ago
@s22sk Land Rovers got a rap for being unreliable because you have to keep up on maintenance--which most people fail to do. LRs are great vehicles when properly maintained, but as soon as you fall behind its game over. Its a Land Rover, not a Toyota, they must be treated differently.
naval8viator 1 year ago
@qwadboy It's mainly the driver :)
MegaG15 1 year ago
Land Rover is the best Off-road
roveredsv 1 year ago
@roveredsv They're not...
MegaG15 1 year ago
owned both the def and the cruiser, however now have a gq nissan patrol and it's 100 times better than the def and the cruiser, only compromise is slighty less ground clearance but far better on and off road.
mongolianbeefcat 1 year ago
at 4:50 if the def has TC working the abs then wouldn't this def have hdc?
nedster01 1 year ago
The anti-stall has got NOTHING to do with the lurching forwards that happened when he went downhill. That's getting cross-axled, so no engine braking. Traction control won't help there either. Thats where diff locks come into play.
48457gh360225 1 year ago
Its not clear which vehicle is best off road.
However one thing is very clear.
Out of three of us (friends), 2 purchased the Land Rover and one the Toyota.
After 5 years, all three of us were driving Toyotas.
Off road, on road, quality and feel becomes clear only after about 50k miles.
A short safari on new vehicles make little difference.
solobackpacking 1 year ago
@solobackpacking This makes very good sense. Andrew
4xforum 1 year ago
nice and informative video.
leethebug 1 year ago
had defender never really maintained it, look it drove, kinda, missing a few bits, ran okay, oil looked like dog diarea, but hey gave it a redneck tune up it was fine, still missing bits though, and the oil still looked like diahrea but i guess we have to make comprimises in the name of lazy i even duct taped the leaks in the tires (well really i duct taped leaks anywhere) and when i drained the transmission oil to use in the engine i filled the tranny with vaseline instead that went not so well
LandRoversForLife 1 year ago
Great Video, I love land rovers, however they stopped the cruiser as soon as it started slipping and kept going with the rover.. Not Fair
adrianm413 1 year ago
reliability sucks, but theres nothing like driving one when they work!
boxersbeatbrawlers 1 year ago
Toyota Land Cruiser engine and gearbox in Land Rover 110. Best thing ever!!!!!!!
DarraghC94 1 year ago 14
@DarraghC94 Now that would be worth testing!
4xforum 1 year ago 3
@DarraghC94 I would also take the seats and their position from Toyota :)
gazzzaloddi 1 year ago
dude,engine make big diference!!
TheBlazen001 1 year ago
lol, they keep stepping on the gas of the land crover waiting for it regain traction, but when the land cruiser starts spinning just a little they immediately stop the LC and turn on the lockers. I would rather have the LC because I do not want to risk spinning any tires climbing up a hill and then have my truck roll down.
Biased much?
ELComandoARMADO 1 year ago
be interesting to see a landcruiser 80 series over this they are supposed to the the best landcruiser of them all still take the lr though just love em
godzillaisnuclea123 1 year ago
i love landies gonna buy a 1972 series 3 shortwheelbase diesel landrover owners always seem to be more passionate about their vehicles compared to other 4x4s
godzillaisnuclea123 1 year ago
They're both good, I'd prefer a Defender though.
Very good payload as well as off road prowess.
The only thing I like better than Japanese products are British products.
G1NZOU 1 year ago
I am a Toyota fan, had the cruiser, sold it to buy the Land rover. This time LR is better!
Mr110V8 1 year ago
toyota better
kamaz4x4 1 year ago
did anybody notice when it came to the downhill bit that he drove the landrover faster over the edge than the piece of shit and then said the piece of shit was better as it had a bigger engine which makes no difference when going down hill
spliffthedog 1 year ago 2
@spliffthedog Sorry, but if you think a bigger engine makes no difference going downhill, then you need to know that it does... the compression, not the power output.
4xforum 1 year ago
@4xforum its not the engine that make the difference its the gearbox low 1st is always the way to go
spliffthedog 1 year ago
@spliffthedog Actually, this Toyota's engine has such high compression, that low second us used for all but the most extreme downhill slopes. Otherwise it crawls so slowly that it almost stops. The smaller, turbo Rover's engine has poor compression by comparison so low first has to be used more often. And on dune slopes, low first, even with the Land Rover is sometimes too low, and low second is the better, safer choice.
4xforum 1 year ago
@spliffthedog both are, the toyota engine high compression help to low rpms faster than the land rover, so it's downhill slower than the rover.
ctdesing 1 year ago
Jumpmaster1963 why the childish vindictive comments on a mature debate?
crackthump 1 year ago
@crackthump That user has been banned from my channel. Thanks for informing me. I missed this comment. Obviously a crackpot moron.
4xforum 1 year ago
Nissan patrol beats both
REPOMAN24722 1 year ago
TOYOTA
Yzak182 1 year ago
maybe do the test agen in 35+ years with the same cars and see which is best...... plenty of 50 year old landys in daily work .... i think the tlc will be scrap waaay before then..........mind you this new landy maybe not out live my 2a
davev8app 1 year ago 7
@davev8app The electronics on that fancy traction control system will be dead inside of 15 years.
Polybun 1 year ago
land cruser gives you more for less and is more rialiable and better built toyota is a toyota
tinleo333 1 year ago