during the pre-meeting all field lines are discussed are agreed upon by both coaches. If there's an issue it is handled prior to the start of the game. If the coach has an issue with the batters box he should have stressed that point before the game. Get off the umps the back, like the players, he does his job with what the field provides. Not his job for faulty grounds keeping. He calls what he sees
PS -- all of you saying he should apply "common sense" with a regulation box, tell me this -- would you REALLY be more comfortable with the umpire making up his own imaginary box and calling that rather than what's on the field? Seriously?
Easy call. He was CLEARLY out of the box. If the coach had a problem with the box, he should have brought it up before the game. Look how far forward the batter is standing. He stepped out of the box because of how far forward he was standing. Love people crushing this umpire on Youtube even though he got the call right. You're all idiots.
Before Every High School Game There is a plate meeting. Umpires and managers (Head Coaches) are required to attend. After accepting the lineups the Home team manager is aske to "Take Us Through The Fied" This is the time for objections to Home park Rules, Field and yes even lines. I am not defending this umpire, as I would have mentioned that the box is too small and I alone will make any decision regarding the Batters Box. Everone, Coaches umpires & players could have handeled this better.
ths bad thing is that the kid never stepped farther than a normal box anyway, i just cant understand why the ump called him out, the kids foot never went in front of the plate or farther up than allowed. Im guessing the ump is a alocal guy that knows the home team coach and was told to make that call
"3 foot up, 4 foot back." best quote ever since the box isnt that big anyway. hahahaha fans. gotta love them. but i agree with Dashriprock27. Umpire screwed himself before the game started. Could have fixed this right when it happened by fixing the box when it was made known that it was not a legal box. Ouch. Now he is on youtube looking stupid.
I lined a lot of fields while I was in HS and college and now that my kids play, I have been doing it all over again. I also have umpired for 30 years and know when a box is wrong. Some leagues are using improper templates and it does come into play at times.
If I see an improper box, I rub out the wrong lines prior to the game. Simple, and if it ever comes into question, I will make my own lines when I see batters encroaching in questionable area.
BOTH things quoted in the video that the umpire said are accurate. #1, it's not the umpire's job to measure the batter's box. Of course if there's a dispute like this one, the umpire should investigate, but it's not like he has to take a tape measure out before the game and check the lines before the game. #2 the rule book has no bearing during the game, and should never be brought out. Most umpires are taught to eject immediately if a coach brings a rule book on the field.
Wow Paul another horrible call. Looking closer even though this is not a legal box the batters foot was not entirely out of the box when the bat and ball made contact. Batters foot had chalk under it. Rule states the the foot has to be entirely out of the box. Ya'll need better officials.
but also in rulebooks umpires have power to adhear and best judge rules that are not explained completely or thorugholy....and also y didnt the coach address this in pregame meeting?
actually...if there was an issue with the batters box, it should have been brought up BEFORE the first pitch. You can't have a problem with the small box after the fact. Cmon..
Any good umpire would notice the box was incorrect during ground rules and wipe it out before the first pitch. If the batter's box line is wrong, you erase it. Clear. Plain. Simple. However, if a coach brings a rule book onto my field, he's gone. (Unfortunately, this time he was right.)
Conversation went on waaaaaaay too long. This umpire is bringing all kinds of issues upon himself for looking for 'bugers' such as the batter's box. I have to side with the manager on this one BUT...if a manager asked me if I was making up my own rules...I am sorry, you are done!
Conversation went on waaaaaaay too long. This umpire is bringing all kinds of issues upon himself for looking for 'bugers' such as the batter's box. I have to side with the manager on this one BUT...if a manager asked me if I was making up my own rules...I am sorry, you are done!
At the begining of high school games, CIF rules state that the umpire is to ask the managers if they agree on the condition of the playing field and the lines and the batters box, and the umpire tells them what he shall and shall not call, if they had a problem with the batters box they could wait to get it fixed, so its the managers fault in the first place for not getting it changed.
The umpire should have told the coach that he might have made a mistake by not measuring the field of play, but both teams will be subject to the same field of play giving an unfair advantage to neither team. After that, I throw the coach out of the game if he continues to argue.
uh the box has to be 4x6 and if it to short they have to fix it or call game. as an umpire myself if i notice that the box is to short then i call time and get it fixed before i call a player out for an illegal box.
BOOM!!! Section 2, article 12: any game started on a non regulation (re: non-rule abiding) facility by mutual agreement of the opposing coaches SHALL NOT be protested for this reason.
@kmcnelly Then the question is: Does not pointing out a ground marking that appears to not conform to the line defined in the Rules of Baseball constitute a "mutual agreement"?
@kmcnelly you are spot on. When a coach accepts the terms of the field, ie: Improper batters box lines, he/she is not allowed to protest the incorrect lines.
And if I were umpiring that game, the coach would have been tossed. Any time a coach starts to physically show me physical things on the field with that tone of voice, he is GONE.
It is not the umpires job to make sure the coach does the boxes right in the middle of the game. This should be done before the game. The ump made the right call for the circumstances
@sfcougars45 : well said!, furthermore the coaches have the same access to the rule book just like the umpires do, the coaches are also required to go to yaerly rule clinics just like the official are, at least in the State of Florida were I officated for many years. I will also say this as a former baseball umpire, as well as a soccer referee I had this same situation to many times to count sadly.
Maybe the umpire couldn't tell the box was to the wrong dimensions. Can't tell that from the video. Maybe, it was assumed to be of the right size and no one questioned it.
I'll bet this though. The coach learned a lesson to verify the box before every game and not rely on the umpire.
This is one of those things "You're damned if you do, damned if you don't." If he doesn't call it, DC is on him. He does, OC is on him. And, if he doesn't when the OC is in the field, then the OC complains.
Rule 1.04 says the batter's box is a 4' x 6' rectangle, centered on the plate, 6" from the plate, on each side of the plate. It does not say the batter's box is defined by chalk.
Rule 3.13 says the ground rules shall not conflict with the official playing rules. That means you can't "accept" an improperly marked box.
The umpire violated Rule 3.01 (a) by not ensuring all playing lines were properly marked. You cannot penalize the batter for the umpire's error.
Could not be stated any more clearly. You are right on the money! I've tried to explain this to others in the past but not as well as you. Viewers can't seem to separate "ground rules" from "official playing rules." That Box could never be "accepted" by any coach's failure to point it out prior to the game.
@dopchief The box is not a ground rule. Once the game starts, you agree to play on the field as it is. That is an official NFHS rule. The coach's entire argument is invalid. You can't accept the field and then go back and complain once you've been burned.
That said, the umpire should have noticed the problem, and rubbed out the lines before hand. Would have saved a lot of trouble.
Once the game starts, the coaches have agreed to play on the field as is. You can't protest a field marking once the game starts. The umpire should have caught it and taken care of the situation, but it's also the coach's responsibility to bring up a problem with the lines before the game starts.
Bad call. Poor judgement by the umpire. The coach doesn't have any right to bitch. He should have been ejected. And the other coach for bringing a rule book on to the field. Bad umpiring.
@DennieLemeux Totally Agree here. Coaches should have been tossed for their behavior. It was addressed and resolved by the home plate umpire who has the final say on the field.
Actually, it seems like the OBR does say the box is marked by chalk. "The foul lines and all other playing lines indicated in the diagrams by solid black lines shall be marked with wet, unslaked lime, chalk or other white material."
It may only pertain to foul lines and the 45 foot line. But, it does say all marked with a solid black line in the diagram are to be marked and the boxes are drawn with solid black lines in the diagram.
@dashriprock27 Even if the box was drawn wrong the coach agreed at the pre game meeting that the lines where correct. The ump then plays those lines and the rules at the same time. So each game can be different. But the box should not extened past 2 feet in front of the plate. The batter is clearly more than 2 feet in front of the plate. The umpire shouldnt have talked to the coach and as soon as the coach braught the rule book out he should have tossed him. Ump has to keep control of the coach.
The coach should have been thrown out three different times in the video. The rulebook states that, (paraphrasing) If the coaches, and the pregame meeting, do not dispute the field, then the field shall be played as is. However, ump should have erased the lines if the box was small, otherwise, he's going to have a tough day and look like a jerk.
To those who argue that the visiting coach implicitly agreed to the box size by not objecting before the game, please note that pre-game conferences are to discuss "ground rules" unique to various fields. Basic baseball "rules' however are not subject to discussion and cannot be "waived" e.g. dimensions from plate to mound, between bases and SIZE OF BOX. The coach's failure to object before the game is irrelevant. The Batter's Box must always be the legal size!
While I understand your point, your argument is wrong. During the pregame meeting, if a coach does not object to something about the field, then he has accepted the field as is. That is paraphrased, but it is in the rule book. Here's a, "for instance". Bases loaded, bottom of ninth inning. Score is 4-3. Batter hits a rope down the RF line that hits the chalk. Fair ball, 2 runs score, game over. But, the chalk line is crooked. It's not straight. Is it a fair or foul ball?
The fact is because the coach accepted the field, he is obligated to play the field as-is. The umpire can (and should, in the videos case) make a judgement call and change it, but if he elects not to, then he is abbiding by the rules.
You are still incorrectly treating "ground rules" for a field the same as "rules of baseball" -- which are constant and cannot be changed, by agreement, at a pre-game conference or any other way. Unless that ump actually thought the box lines complied with the rules, he was required to use his judgement in going by how the box should have been drawn.
No, I'm not. I'm not using my judgement on this matter. I'm stating what the rules state. NFHS rules STATE, that if a coach does not object to a field in the plate conference, then he accepts the field as-is. He can not, in the third inning, object to the field, such as the size of the batters box, after the plate meeting is over. This is not my judgement, this is a rule.
Re: your "for instance" -- ump should use his judgement and not go strictly by the foul line if he believes it is clearly crooked and would make a foul ball fair, or vice versa. Again, he must go by the actual rules that determine fair and foul. The line is merely a guide.
The answer to your fair/foul question is "whatever the umpire judged it to be." The foul line is DEFINED in the rules as a straight line from the point of the plate past the outside of the base extending to the fence. It is not defined as "wherever the chalk might be that day."
The same is true for the batters boxes. They're 4 x 6 centered on the plate no matter where the chalk is, and regardless of what happens at the plate meeting. They are not "accepted as drawn" if no one brings it up.
Once the game starts, the box is as drawn. The umpire should have used better judgement if they were obviously wrong, but the coach's argument is invalid.
Umpire stopped game for way too long... he should've ejected the coach, I would say if there was a mutual agreedment between coaches about wether the batter box had the right measuments or not and they go by that and end of argument and the umpire has a closer look than the coach to determine if batter is stepping out of box.
I have had the same situation. Before the game I completely erased the lines and told coaches that players would have a lot of leeway. Never had a problem.
WoW this ump is an iDIOT! "Not My Job." Last time I check asshole, ur the one that is supposed to keep things in check. Nice one blue, poor people actually had to pay u for this crap
according to umpire school, if the coaches agree on the field, then it is equally applied to both teams, even if the field is wrong. Actually I have had an umpire tell me even if the coaches do not agree, the field will be played as prepared. Even if it endangers players. Can you believe that!
For the record the batters box is 4' by 6' so it really 3' up and 3' back. Who ever was yelling it was wrong. Now this umpire needs to use common sense, but there is a wacky rule here.
NFHS Rule 1-2-12
Any Game started on non regulatation facility by mutual agreement of the opposing coaches shall not be protested for this reason
So the Ump was right, but as an Umpire my self, he was also wrong...
okay i am an umpire for softball and i also play baseball in hs but this ump does not know the rules and the ule also says that if the batters box is not legal the ump has the right to measure it and when he said its not my job then you are right for complaing about it so the kid is not out the umpire need to go back to the clinic to learn his damn rules.
In Ontario, You can step out of the box if you want unless you make contact and the ball is batted fair. Your ENTIRE foot must also touch the ground or it doesn't matter.
I am an umpire, and one of the first things I was told by my mentor was, "When you go into a game, don't go looking for trouble, because trouble will find you soon enough". This is a classic example. If the ump saw that the field was lined incorrectly, he should have informed both coaches at the plate meeting before the game, and told them that it will be his judgement on "line" calls. Then, he should have been VERY liberal on any "out of the box" calls. He went looking for trouble and ...
people. i am agreeing with the coach on this ussually i agree with the ump, but if the box is not the right length then why the hell are you calling stupid calls, all he had to do was make it a foul ball thats it, the ump was being a complete asshole.
Umpires always ask the managers, "Do you agree that the field is in playable condition?" at the plate meeting. Meaning do you agree to using the lines and playing field as is. If he had a problem with the lines, the plate meeting is the place to bring it up.
Is this coach an idiot or what? What's he trying to be a lawyer "... you said we gonna go by this line but not that lin..." I mean, come on. So what if the box is not perfect. As long as the ump calls it consistent what's the problem. He should have ejected that coach for being stupid. And, listen to just how smart the fans are. What's in the water in Jersey?!
its the home teams responsibility for the care of there own field, the umpire will go by how the home team lines there own field. If there was something wrong with the box the coach of the visiting team should have said something when he met with the umpire before the game. The coach when meeting with umpires should be looking for things wrong with the field and discuss them like foul lines are crooked if a ball hits a cow things like that.
This has been discussed ad nauseum on various umpire forums (real umpires, including NCAA D1 and MiLB, not you tube umpires). Not a single one would have called this batter out. Zero. The box is obviously wrong so it is ignored.
And yes it should have been mentioned at the pre-game conference, but that doesn't change how the rule is enforced.
A legal box is 4X6. it is 3 ft up and 3 feet back from the back square edge of the plate. not the point but the line across that would make the plate square. I would have tossed the coach.
I am sure of the rules governing protest in New Jersey but in Ohio there are no protests when the field markings are wrong. The coach should have force the home team to make the box according to the rules before the game starts. Tell the coach to leave the field or take a shower. He is wrong. The camera man needs to get a life.
According to thr NFHS rule book for high school baseball. The field is required to meet the guidelines printed. Meaning the batters box is supposed to be a certain lenght. But if it is not, the umpire should go by the painted lines. adjusting properly.
Once the game starts, the field is concidered legal. The coach cant argue the lines after the game is underway. His whole argument is invalid. Head coach should have been tossed. Assistant should have been gone the second he stepped onto the field with a rule book.
It looked like a pretty horrible call, and the umpire is clearly an idiot, but the coach wasn't disputing the call- just the size of the batters box. Since the game had already started, he's SOL.
Right call by the umpire, but the explanation was too long. 4 feet by 6 feet is the batters box. Good job ump..and what a horrible coach to not realize that he agreed to play on that field before the game at the home plate meeting between the umpires, both Head coaches and maybe the captains of the respective teams.
Ground rules should have been covered before the game. Just like the fair/Foul call. The line is the boundry. If it is crooked, it is still the boundry. It should have been noted before the game, and the box should have been repainted. Since it wasn't noted by the coaches, play the lines as they are correct. Umpire correct in this.
MLB is 3x4, and whomever the home team is will be responsible for the field lines, coaches, batters, and on deck circle chalking. I'm sure the coach arguing the pointless point hosted a few games, he should know better!
It is the home team's job to properly line the field.
It is the umpires job to make sure the home team did their job.
If these responsibilities are overlooked, you play the box one of two ways - as they should be or as they are. This umpire chose to play them as they are. Obviously...this is a trouble decision.
The bigger mistake is telling the coach anything other than "the batter was out of the box". That started a whole discussion that should have been ended early.
You call the game with the markings that are on the field at the start of the game. It is the responsibility of the managers the agree on the fitness of the playing field before the start of the game. Once the pregame meeting commences, the fitness of the field is up to the umpire to determine. If the coach had a problem with the lines, he should have brought it up before the game. Not after his batter was called out
pretty much i remember that there making some lines in calripken ( i think i was done and just about to head home) and the umpire said the bozx was to small.
there are no ties. you either beat the throw or tag or you are declared out. The rule states that you must beat the throw. A tie is not beating the throw. Your out!
It is not up to the umpire to declare the box in regulation. it is up to the home team to make the field playable and legal. If no provisions are given during the managers meeting at home plate before the game starts then you play the field as is. It is up to the coach to protest the game conditions after the game.
#1--You don't pull a rule book out on an umpire. You can ask him to review the rule with you, but he pulls out the book or allows you to do so. To wave a rule book in his face is a quick road to an ejection.
#2--Best way to end this argument--protest the game. The umpire made a rule interpretation regarding the size of the box. It isn't regulation. you protest the game. If the protest is upheld, the batter is back up and the rest of the game is replayed.
Field regulations are the responsibility of the umpire to notice them before the game begins. He missed it so they play with the field as is since no one noticed it before the game started. The coach should have seen it before his leadoff hitter got up there. His mistake and he paid the price for it. And, this argument should not have lasted as long as it did. The ump should have told him this is NOW regulation and we are going by it. Conversation over.
The field regulations shouldn't be the responsibility of the umpire, they can only work with what they are given. This is the same as in MLB how some fields have different groud rules. If things are grossly incorrect with the field such as a crooked foul line, or a box that is too small the umpire can stop the game and have it redone, but then everyone usually gets upset for delaying the game.
McClelland: There are no ties and there is no rule that says the tie goes to the runner. But the rule book does say that the runner must beat the ball to first base, and so if he doesn't beat the ball, then he is out. So you have to make the decision. That's why umpires are paid the money they are, to make the decision on if he did or if he didn't. The only thing you can do is go by whether or not he beat the ball. If he did, then he is safe.
Link for reference. Don't give me that "Don't quote the MLB" crap. Answer the disengage question without "Right handers and left handers follow the same rules". What the hell does that mean or even answer? U have discredited urself very badly. U have made a fool of urself for claiming to umpire professionally and can't even get a basic question right. Good job.
), umpire are taught to say ties don't exist, but if a runner gets there simultaneously, then the bag or base is occupied at the time the throw gets there and the runner is always declared safe in such an event. I figured once you asked the question, this was some bullshit you'd pull out of your ass because you KNOW that in any event when this happens, a runner will be declared safe and read that mcclellan shit and went "watch this" and it makes you look lik even more of an idiot.
OK, here's where you avoid this very simple question which will discredit you and your boyfriend McClellan - If two things happen at the same time, IE a runner touches first base at the same time the throw gets there...what do you call that Einstein????? Is that NOT a tie? I am in AWE that you'd even argue that simple fucking logic. Are you seriously some mentally retarded fucking handicapped kid who has nothing better to do but be a dumbshit?
2 simple questions which are irrelevant to this play. It has to do with some credibility (what little can be obtained in this forum). Doug, what is the call if the runner and the throw get to the base at the same time? Also, is it possible for a right handed pitcher to make a pickoff move towards first without disengaging the rubber? I know they are off subject but what are the answers and why. Oh, and don't get so upset if not everyone sees things ur way. U must get upset every time U ump then.
Wait YOU are the one wanting to put YOURSELF in control by abusing a rule that allows you to always be right and never be challenged and you're telling me I'm the one who must get upset? I have a GREAT TIME umpiring and I'm very comfortable what I do. YOu keep saying we assume your status..which is funny becuase you NEVER directly answered that question when asked..but your reponses and even these questions you ask make it obvious...they are partial and meant to instigate issue, which U R about
what is the call if the runner and the throw get to the base at the same time?
This is a ridiculous question because you don't even ask if the runner is being forced or not. The tie always goes to the runner, period and the base doesn't matter. Even the way you ASK questions opens you up to speculation and this is something asked like a little league or high school umpire. You won't tell us that is what you do because you know we are right.
Dude, you're an idiot. Period. The rule clearly states that if the runner touches the base at the exact same time the ball gets to that base, then the runner will be declared safe. This is a BASIC rule. Get lost idiot.
No it doesn't. It's a BASIC misconception. The rule ACTUALLY states that if the runner does not BEAT the ball to the bag he shall be declared out. If they got there at the same time then they didn't beat the ball, hence he is out. There is no rule in any rulebook that states that a tie goes to the runner.
LOL, it is actualy stated like that huh? It's stated in ignorant terms like that? You are a dumbass. Do you even WATCH baseball? Dude, I'm an umpire and do this for a living. You learn in LITTLE LEAGUE for crying out loud the tie goes to the runner. That's BASIC BASEBALL...get a clue and stop making stupid comments on youtube just to get attention.
Well I umpire college and I've been to Jim Evans JEAPU. And we learn the first day that there are no ties in baseball. YOu learned in LL from someone that does not know baseball. Quote me a rule, ANY RULE that states or implies that a tie goes to the runner and I will conceed the argument.
yeh, the rulebook doesn't say in those terms that a "tie goes to the runner" and I made that clear...but since the rule says he is out " he or first base is tagged before he touches the base", then by simple logic, once he touches base, if he is tagged or the base is touched AT THE SAME TIME which essenially isa TIE whether you like it or not, he's safe.
I guess we are done here, thanks for playing...thanks for stating the obvious - that you are clueless. I mean, whether you like or not or say it until you are blue, if the ball gets there at the same time as the runner, by definition, there is a TIE...in that occurrence, the runner is safe. Basic baseball there clueless. Take care. I gotta get to Fry's.
No ties in baseball....again, what do you call it when a runner gets to a base at the same time he is tagged???? Uh...uh...duh george. I believe you are confusing "no ties in baseball" with SCORING as extra innings determines a winner...any idiot can determine that someone getting to a base at the same time as a tag is a TIE, no matter what YOU want to call it. Again, you're misreading the rule...if he got there at the same time, then he has beaten the tag..common sense.
Rule 7.08 (e): "A runner is out when...(e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner." If the runner gets to the bag at the SAME TIME, then he did NOT get to the next base BEFORE he or the base was tagged. Therefore he is OUT.
(e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.
If he gets there at the same time, then he HAS reached the base BEFORE he was tagged...duh.
Here is some common sense for you...if a runner is simply standing on 2nd base, and a player tags him with the ball, is he out? No, why? Because he is TOUCHING THE BASE. Hence, if he's touching the base at the same time a tag is applied or the base is touched on a force out, the runner is safe because he is touching the base...wow, I can't believe someone would argue this...this is SIMPLE common sense.
It is all semantics really, but any way you look at it, if they reach at the same time, it is a TIE, hence the tie goes to the runner because the base or runner was not tagged BEFORE he reached base. Time to concede...man this is basic. I honestly can't believe you umpired in college.
Really, and where did YOU go to umpire school? In umpire school, you are taught vehmently that in the case of a play too close to be called (such as a TIE dumbshit), then the proper thing to do is side with the runner. I guess in little league, you guys apply Major League rules there don't you. Any fucking moron knows that if a runner occupies a base at the time he is tagged, he is safe. The only thing discredited is your fucking 2 inch dick.
No, it isn't. Pro school NEVER, EVER will say "side with the runner". They also won't say, "Side with the fielder". There is offense and defense. Outs and safes. We aren't there to "side" with anyone. We are there to judge whether the player is out or safe. An umpire CAN NOT say "tie", therefore he must decide whehter the runner beat the ball or not. If he didn't, he's out. BTW, McLlealen(sp?) Is going to be a HOF ump. You want to tell him he's wrong?
The rules do not contemplate a tie. Either the ball gets there first, or the runner does. The odds of an EXACT tie approach infinity. It has never happened. However, "perceived" ties, where human senses cannot detect which occurred first, happen all the time. Seasoned umps ALWAYS call the runner out. That way, you are calling it the same for both teams (consistency), and you get to grab an out. Anyone who says otherwise is full of shit. Ever hear of a batter "tieing" out a base hit?
Again, dumbshit, by YOUR logic, if a player can be called out by being tagged while ON A FUCKING BASE, then the guy standing on first is in trouble...all a player has to do is walk over and tag him and he's out...because after all, with your logic, if he's touching a base, then he can be put out. Nice.
No, dumbass. If he is already standing on the base, then he was there BEFORE he got tagged. If he got there at the same time, then he did NOT get there BEFORE the tag. Damn. You said "Tie goes to the runner". If he didn't beat the ball which means BEFORE(operative word), then he is out. The rule clearly states BEFORE. Try to change it now but U tried to discredit an MLB ump. U are an idiot. Never said I would "throw them out for simply bringing a rule book".
Again, is it possible for a right handed pitcher to throw to first base without disengaging the rubber and why? Pretty straight forward question for U pro. Ur obviously the only "pro" out there that knows. LOL. What is the answer to this seemingly easy question, "pro"?
I can see this written rule now, lol - "if the runner doesn't beat the ball to the bag" ROFL...the day a rule book refers to a base as a "bag" ROFL. What kind of drug are you smoking?
I find it hiliarious that someone would come on here and make such a stupid comment just to get attention. So if the base runner gets to 1st base at the same time the throw gets there, um, gee retard, that would be a TIE...is the runner safe or out genius?
As far as your second question goes, it doesn't matter if its a left handed or right handed pitcher, they both follow the same rules.
Then you end that with a dumbshit comment that I must be upset every time I um a game? Where, I ask WHERE is the vaility for that ridiculous comment other than wanting to say something stupid? You might as well have said something like "you must be gay". I mean come on man, get a clue.
Ok. Answer the pitching question. Can a Right handed pitcher throw to first without disengaging the rubber? Oh, and BTW, I have a quote from an MLB umpire which states exactly why U are wrong. It doesn't matter if it is a force or not. The runner has to get to the base BEFORE he or the base is tagged. At the same time isn't beating the ball. Maybe U have heard of this ump. His name is Tim McClelland.
The base being tagged applies to a force play. The runner being tagged applies to a force or tag play. Common sense please. Most umpires have it. Why don't U?
during the pre-meeting all field lines are discussed are agreed upon by both coaches. If there's an issue it is handled prior to the start of the game. If the coach has an issue with the batters box he should have stressed that point before the game. Get off the umps the back, like the players, he does his job with what the field provides. Not his job for faulty grounds keeping. He calls what he sees
herzdk42 4 months ago
PS -- all of you saying he should apply "common sense" with a regulation box, tell me this -- would you REALLY be more comfortable with the umpire making up his own imaginary box and calling that rather than what's on the field? Seriously?
AwesTex 5 months ago
Easy call. He was CLEARLY out of the box. If the coach had a problem with the box, he should have brought it up before the game. Look how far forward the batter is standing. He stepped out of the box because of how far forward he was standing. Love people crushing this umpire on Youtube even though he got the call right. You're all idiots.
AwesTex 5 months ago
@AwesTex Actually your the idiot lmfaooooo
cjdeadly 5 months ago
u cant evan see the box that was a bad call
isaacgore100 6 months ago
Before Every High School Game There is a plate meeting. Umpires and managers (Head Coaches) are required to attend. After accepting the lineups the Home team manager is aske to "Take Us Through The Fied" This is the time for objections to Home park Rules, Field and yes even lines. I am not defending this umpire, as I would have mentioned that the box is too small and I alone will make any decision regarding the Batters Box. Everone, Coaches umpires & players could have handeled this better.
MartinSchn828 6 months ago
Not the umps job, its the home teams. if anyone pulls a rule book on you he gets tossed, what a bad ump too soft to toss anyone...
CanadianSabre 6 months ago
Comment removed
CanadianSabre 6 months ago
ths bad thing is that the kid never stepped farther than a normal box anyway, i just cant understand why the ump called him out, the kids foot never went in front of the plate or farther up than allowed. Im guessing the ump is a alocal guy that knows the home team coach and was told to make that call
24playerbob 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It's not his job to measure the box.
There is no such thing as a illegal box. this is taking tooooo long the umpire has to cut this short quicker.
toss him.
deeathlete 7 months ago
It's not his job to measure the box.
There is no such thing as a illegal box. this is taking tooooo long the umpire has to cut this short quicker.
deeathlete 7 months ago
It's not his job to measure the box.
There is no such thing as a illegal box.
deeathlete 7 months ago
"3 foot up, 4 foot back." best quote ever since the box isnt that big anyway. hahahaha fans. gotta love them. but i agree with Dashriprock27. Umpire screwed himself before the game started. Could have fixed this right when it happened by fixing the box when it was made known that it was not a legal box. Ouch. Now he is on youtube looking stupid.
ForTheWeekRocks 7 months ago
hahaha yankees
ivan123484 7 months ago
I lined a lot of fields while I was in HS and college and now that my kids play, I have been doing it all over again. I also have umpired for 30 years and know when a box is wrong. Some leagues are using improper templates and it does come into play at times.
If I see an improper box, I rub out the wrong lines prior to the game. Simple, and if it ever comes into question, I will make my own lines when I see batters encroaching in questionable area.
It seems to work doing this.
Bluesteve32 10 months ago
i hate this shit about baseball, so many fucked up rules, other then that baseball is a sick sport
yahbud 10 months ago
BOTH things quoted in the video that the umpire said are accurate. #1, it's not the umpire's job to measure the batter's box. Of course if there's a dispute like this one, the umpire should investigate, but it's not like he has to take a tape measure out before the game and check the lines before the game. #2 the rule book has no bearing during the game, and should never be brought out. Most umpires are taught to eject immediately if a coach brings a rule book on the field.
TheAmazingAnarchist1 11 months ago
Tree foot up foar foot back. Geezuss.
sdix00 1 year ago
Wow Paul another horrible call. Looking closer even though this is not a legal box the batters foot was not entirely out of the box when the bat and ball made contact. Batters foot had chalk under it. Rule states the the foot has to be entirely out of the box. Ya'll need better officials.
helpmesell 1 year ago
but also in rulebooks umpires have power to adhear and best judge rules that are not explained completely or thorugholy....and also y didnt the coach address this in pregame meeting?
bbchsboilers25 1 year ago
actually...if there was an issue with the batters box, it should have been brought up BEFORE the first pitch. You can't have a problem with the small box after the fact. Cmon..
doolok 1 year ago
Any good umpire would notice the box was incorrect during ground rules and wipe it out before the first pitch. If the batter's box line is wrong, you erase it. Clear. Plain. Simple. However, if a coach brings a rule book onto my field, he's gone. (Unfortunately, this time he was right.)
AmazingRaceMontreal 1 year ago
it doesn't matter if the box is in the spot or not the batter can't be steping out of the batter's box at all.
ilovemyfaimly 1 year ago
ayy coach nelsonn . hes my coach now and ima junior.. he still coachingg for chs. beach coach ever
lyank33srule 1 year ago
You're right -- he's a great coach. Does he know he's featured on Youtube?
Good Luck in your CHS career.
dopchief 1 year ago
thumbs up if you can't even tell if the box is regulation size
cougakid1823 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Conversation went on waaaaaaay too long. This umpire is bringing all kinds of issues upon himself for looking for 'bugers' such as the batter's box. I have to side with the manager on this one BUT...if a manager asked me if I was making up my own rules...I am sorry, you are done!
buckeyebryan10 1 year ago
Conversation went on waaaaaaay too long. This umpire is bringing all kinds of issues upon himself for looking for 'bugers' such as the batter's box. I have to side with the manager on this one BUT...if a manager asked me if I was making up my own rules...I am sorry, you are done!
buckeyebryan10 1 year ago
At the begining of high school games, CIF rules state that the umpire is to ask the managers if they agree on the condition of the playing field and the lines and the batters box, and the umpire tells them what he shall and shall not call, if they had a problem with the batters box they could wait to get it fixed, so its the managers fault in the first place for not getting it changed.
D15maximus 1 year ago
You can protest the game over that.Good thing that wasn't Tony Sopranos kid.lol
bigbadbruins1 1 year ago
The umpire should have told the coach that he might have made a mistake by not measuring the field of play, but both teams will be subject to the same field of play giving an unfair advantage to neither team. After that, I throw the coach out of the game if he continues to argue.
joshuadwright 1 year ago
that's all kind of wrong....the batter did not contact the ball with his foot COMPLETELY outside the box....wrong call
alasjajo 1 year ago
I DONT GET IT WHY IS HE OUT
tightsharkyj 1 year ago
uh the box has to be 4x6 and if it to short they have to fix it or call game. as an umpire myself if i notice that the box is to short then i call time and get it fixed before i call a player out for an illegal box.
slipsakteboards 1 year ago
BOOM!!! Section 2, article 12: any game started on a non regulation (re: non-rule abiding) facility by mutual agreement of the opposing coaches SHALL NOT be protested for this reason.
kmcnelly 1 year ago
@kmcnelly Then the question is: Does not pointing out a ground marking that appears to not conform to the line defined in the Rules of Baseball constitute a "mutual agreement"?
avsfan331940 1 year ago
@kmcnelly you are spot on. When a coach accepts the terms of the field, ie: Improper batters box lines, he/she is not allowed to protest the incorrect lines.
holland227 1 year ago
And if I were umpiring that game, the coach would have been tossed. Any time a coach starts to physically show me physical things on the field with that tone of voice, he is GONE.
sfcougars45 1 year ago
It is not the umpires job to make sure the coach does the boxes right in the middle of the game. This should be done before the game. The ump made the right call for the circumstances
sfcougars45 1 year ago
@sfcougars45 : well said!, furthermore the coaches have the same access to the rule book just like the umpires do, the coaches are also required to go to yaerly rule clinics just like the official are, at least in the State of Florida were I officated for many years. I will also say this as a former baseball umpire, as well as a soccer referee I had this same situation to many times to count sadly.
rowdychef 1 year ago
Yell a little louder coach, that alway gets you somewhere with the umpire.
upallllnight 1 year ago
Maybe the umpire couldn't tell the box was to the wrong dimensions. Can't tell that from the video. Maybe, it was assumed to be of the right size and no one questioned it.
I'll bet this though. The coach learned a lesson to verify the box before every game and not rely on the umpire.
This is one of those things "You're damned if you do, damned if you don't." If he doesn't call it, DC is on him. He does, OC is on him. And, if he doesn't when the OC is in the field, then the OC complains.
chaz1177 1 year ago
Coach should've mentioned that at the beginning of the game. Not wait til it cost him an out.
marcusland 2 years ago 10
The batter's foot is not completely out of the box.
golfindolfin54 2 years ago
0% correct.
Rule 1.04 says the batter's box is a 4' x 6' rectangle, centered on the plate, 6" from the plate, on each side of the plate. It does not say the batter's box is defined by chalk.
Rule 3.13 says the ground rules shall not conflict with the official playing rules. That means you can't "accept" an improperly marked box.
The umpire violated Rule 3.01 (a) by not ensuring all playing lines were properly marked. You cannot penalize the batter for the umpire's error.
dashriprock27 2 years ago 9
Could not be stated any more clearly. You are right on the money! I've tried to explain this to others in the past but not as well as you. Viewers can't seem to separate "ground rules" from "official playing rules." That Box could never be "accepted" by any coach's failure to point it out prior to the game.
dopchief 2 years ago
@dopchief The box is not a ground rule. Once the game starts, you agree to play on the field as it is. That is an official NFHS rule. The coach's entire argument is invalid. You can't accept the field and then go back and complain once you've been burned.
That said, the umpire should have noticed the problem, and rubbed out the lines before hand. Would have saved a lot of trouble.
DennieLemeux 1 year ago
@DennieLemeux : I couldn't agree with you more.
rowdychef 1 year ago
Once the game starts, the coaches have agreed to play on the field as is. You can't protest a field marking once the game starts. The umpire should have caught it and taken care of the situation, but it's also the coach's responsibility to bring up a problem with the lines before the game starts.
Bad call. Poor judgement by the umpire. The coach doesn't have any right to bitch. He should have been ejected. And the other coach for bringing a rule book on to the field. Bad umpiring.
DennieLemeux 2 years ago
@DennieLemeux Totally Agree here. Coaches should have been tossed for their behavior. It was addressed and resolved by the home plate umpire who has the final say on the field.
holland227 1 year ago
wrong once you play the lines are official.
critter2 2 years ago
Actually, it seems like the OBR does say the box is marked by chalk. "The foul lines and all other playing lines indicated in the diagrams by solid black lines shall be marked with wet, unslaked lime, chalk or other white material."
It may only pertain to foul lines and the 45 foot line. But, it does say all marked with a solid black line in the diagram are to be marked and the boxes are drawn with solid black lines in the diagram.
chaz1177 1 year ago
@dashriprock27 the coach's agree to the playing feild there for its mute point he didn't voliton anyhting no matter what you say.
critter2 10 months ago
@dashriprock27 wrong as both coachs agree with the playing field from the start thefore it falls onto the coaches for failure
critter2 4 months ago
@dashriprock27 Even if the box was drawn wrong the coach agreed at the pre game meeting that the lines where correct. The ump then plays those lines and the rules at the same time. So each game can be different. But the box should not extened past 2 feet in front of the plate. The batter is clearly more than 2 feet in front of the plate. The umpire shouldnt have talked to the coach and as soon as the coach braught the rule book out he should have tossed him. Ump has to keep control of the coach.
spencersmith98023 2 months ago
If you never make that call in your entire umpiring career, you can't go wrong.
oldaardvark 2 years ago
The coach should have been thrown out three different times in the video. The rulebook states that, (paraphrasing) If the coaches, and the pregame meeting, do not dispute the field, then the field shall be played as is. However, ump should have erased the lines if the box was small, otherwise, he's going to have a tough day and look like a jerk.
kmcnelly 2 years ago
To those who argue that the visiting coach implicitly agreed to the box size by not objecting before the game, please note that pre-game conferences are to discuss "ground rules" unique to various fields. Basic baseball "rules' however are not subject to discussion and cannot be "waived" e.g. dimensions from plate to mound, between bases and SIZE OF BOX. The coach's failure to object before the game is irrelevant. The Batter's Box must always be the legal size!
dopchief 2 years ago
While I understand your point, your argument is wrong. During the pregame meeting, if a coach does not object to something about the field, then he has accepted the field as is. That is paraphrased, but it is in the rule book. Here's a, "for instance". Bases loaded, bottom of ninth inning. Score is 4-3. Batter hits a rope down the RF line that hits the chalk. Fair ball, 2 runs score, game over. But, the chalk line is crooked. It's not straight. Is it a fair or foul ball?
kmcnelly 2 years ago
The fact is because the coach accepted the field, he is obligated to play the field as-is. The umpire can (and should, in the videos case) make a judgement call and change it, but if he elects not to, then he is abbiding by the rules.
kmcnelly 2 years ago
You are still incorrectly treating "ground rules" for a field the same as "rules of baseball" -- which are constant and cannot be changed, by agreement, at a pre-game conference or any other way. Unless that ump actually thought the box lines complied with the rules, he was required to use his judgement in going by how the box should have been drawn.
dopchief 2 years ago
No, I'm not. I'm not using my judgement on this matter. I'm stating what the rules state. NFHS rules STATE, that if a coach does not object to a field in the plate conference, then he accepts the field as-is. He can not, in the third inning, object to the field, such as the size of the batters box, after the plate meeting is over. This is not my judgement, this is a rule.
kmcnelly 2 years ago
You are 100% correct.
DennieLemeux 2 years ago
I'm gonna listen to you dopchief. You sound like you've actually got a rulebook, not just making up what you think sounds right.
13expose13 2 years ago
Re: your "for instance" -- ump should use his judgement and not go strictly by the foul line if he believes it is clearly crooked and would make a foul ball fair, or vice versa. Again, he must go by the actual rules that determine fair and foul. The line is merely a guide.
dopchief 2 years ago
Where in the rule book does it state this?
kmcnelly 2 years ago
It's in section 1 - Objectives of the Game.
dashriprock27 2 years ago
no, it doesn't
kmcnelly 2 years ago
The answer to your fair/foul question is "whatever the umpire judged it to be." The foul line is DEFINED in the rules as a straight line from the point of the plate past the outside of the base extending to the fence. It is not defined as "wherever the chalk might be that day."
The same is true for the batters boxes. They're 4 x 6 centered on the plate no matter where the chalk is, and regardless of what happens at the plate meeting. They are not "accepted as drawn" if no one brings it up.
dashriprock27 2 years ago
Once the game starts, the box is as drawn. The umpire should have used better judgement if they were obviously wrong, but the coach's argument is invalid.
DennieLemeux 2 years ago
This ump needs to attend a refresher course.
Rule book on the field = automatic ejection
But the coach should have been tossed long before.
virgonomic 2 years ago
Eject the coach!!!
rollinjukebox 2 years ago
If the box looks wrong, tell the batters in the first inning to get rid of it, trust me they will usually oblige.
rivercityumpire 2 years ago
Wow, this is insane, the ump changes the play of the game, fucking dumb.
seth61682 2 years ago
Umpire stopped game for way too long... he should've ejected the coach, I would say if there was a mutual agreedment between coaches about wether the batter box had the right measuments or not and they go by that and end of argument and the umpire has a closer look than the coach to determine if batter is stepping out of box.
francbloom18 2 years ago
People dont realize how tough of a job it is to be a umpire
jsellers09 2 years ago 3
the umpire should have gone by the rule book if i were that coach i would get the players and leave then protest the game god dam stupid ump
lilantonieto 2 years ago
fuck i hate that umps can do what ever they want thats why there should be a handbook at every game explaining things like the batters bax
lilantonieto 2 years ago
thats a bunch of bullshit umps think they can call wutever they want
paintballer1231 2 years ago
I have had the same situation. Before the game I completely erased the lines and told coaches that players would have a lot of leeway. Never had a problem.
bailashtoreth 2 years ago
The umpire should have told the coaches at the beginning of the game and should have made new ones.
Booma151676 2 years ago 2
WoW this ump is an iDIOT! "Not My Job." Last time I check asshole, ur the one that is supposed to keep things in check. Nice one blue, poor people actually had to pay u for this crap
iMaRiiNo32 2 years ago
according to umpire school, if the coaches agree on the field, then it is equally applied to both teams, even if the field is wrong. Actually I have had an umpire tell me even if the coaches do not agree, the field will be played as prepared. Even if it endangers players. Can you believe that!
awilson2525 2 years ago
For the record the batters box is 4' by 6' so it really 3' up and 3' back. Who ever was yelling it was wrong. Now this umpire needs to use common sense, but there is a wacky rule here.
NFHS Rule 1-2-12
Any Game started on non regulatation facility by mutual agreement of the opposing coaches shall not be protested for this reason
So the Ump was right, but as an Umpire my self, he was also wrong...
wnymule 2 years ago
it should be a foul ball and he should still be at bat. AND it is his job to measure the box because he makes sure the game is FAIR not cheated on
SportsGamer876 2 years ago
you want him to bring a measuring tape out there?
Frankrizzo01981 2 years ago
maybe he can carry a yard stick around to make sure its exactly 3 feet
he can keep it in his ballbag
Frankrizzo01981 2 years ago
maybe he has a chalk machine with him too
Frankrizzo01981 2 years ago
we had the same thing at my school
the batters box was crooked
we just earsed it and went on with the game
muma0449 2 years ago
okay i am an umpire for softball and i also play baseball in hs but this ump does not know the rules and the ule also says that if the batters box is not legal the ump has the right to measure it and when he said its not my job then you are right for complaing about it so the kid is not out the umpire need to go back to the clinic to learn his damn rules.
slipsakteboards 2 years ago
the ump is a total douche bag wtf was he thinking i go out of the box half the time my umps dont say shit.
rebelsuck 2 years ago
In Ontario, You can step out of the box if you want unless you make contact and the ball is batted fair. Your ENTIRE foot must also touch the ground or it doesn't matter.
obaumpire42 2 years ago
Comment removed
barbell88 2 years ago
I am an umpire, and one of the first things I was told by my mentor was, "When you go into a game, don't go looking for trouble, because trouble will find you soon enough". This is a classic example. If the ump saw that the field was lined incorrectly, he should have informed both coaches at the plate meeting before the game, and told them that it will be his judgement on "line" calls. Then, he should have been VERY liberal on any "out of the box" calls. He went looking for trouble and ...
wolverinefn25 2 years ago
people. i am agreeing with the coach on this ussually i agree with the ump, but if the box is not the right length then why the hell are you calling stupid calls, all he had to do was make it a foul ball thats it, the ump was being a complete asshole.
zmfisher20 2 years ago
doesn't matter if the ump screwed up the call or not... he can't change it.. should've tossed the loud mouth
tcaptain09 2 years ago
Umpires always ask the managers, "Do you agree that the field is in playable condition?" at the plate meeting. Meaning do you agree to using the lines and playing field as is. If he had a problem with the lines, the plate meeting is the place to bring it up.
acemocha 2 years ago
Is this coach an idiot or what? What's he trying to be a lawyer "... you said we gonna go by this line but not that lin..." I mean, come on. So what if the box is not perfect. As long as the ump calls it consistent what's the problem. He should have ejected that coach for being stupid. And, listen to just how smart the fans are. What's in the water in Jersey?!
rwalden2007 2 years ago
Soon as that Rule book Come out DUMP HIM UMP!!! U know that!!!!
Zambrano632 2 years ago
its the home teams responsibility for the care of there own field, the umpire will go by how the home team lines there own field. If there was something wrong with the box the coach of the visiting team should have said something when he met with the umpire before the game. The coach when meeting with umpires should be looking for things wrong with the field and discuss them like foul lines are crooked if a ball hits a cow things like that.
Shawn3300 2 years ago
This has been discussed ad nauseum on various umpire forums (real umpires, including NCAA D1 and MiLB, not you tube umpires). Not a single one would have called this batter out. Zero. The box is obviously wrong so it is ignored.
And yes it should have been mentioned at the pre-game conference, but that doesn't change how the rule is enforced.
liump 2 years ago
You go by the rule book, the paint on the field is imaginary and you are not suppost to pay any atention to it.
CarolinaCougars8 2 years ago
WTF?
AndyPark25 2 years ago
A legal box is 4X6. it is 3 ft up and 3 feet back from the back square edge of the plate. not the point but the line across that would make the plate square. I would have tossed the coach.
denealianvp1 2 years ago
lol i dont understand but its funny when seeing people arugue over the smallest things xD
aznphynix 2 years ago
when they pay me extra i will repaint the lines. The city guys get paid to sit on there asses around here what do you expect.
umpire1991v2 2 years ago
I am sure of the rules governing protest in New Jersey but in Ohio there are no protests when the field markings are wrong. The coach should have force the home team to make the box according to the rules before the game starts. Tell the coach to leave the field or take a shower. He is wrong. The camera man needs to get a life.
Maketherightcall 2 years ago
According to thr NFHS rule book for high school baseball. The field is required to meet the guidelines printed. Meaning the batters box is supposed to be a certain lenght. But if it is not, the umpire should go by the painted lines. adjusting properly.
JKNIP15 3 years ago
Once the game starts, the field is concidered legal. The coach cant argue the lines after the game is underway. His whole argument is invalid. Head coach should have been tossed. Assistant should have been gone the second he stepped onto the field with a rule book.
It looked like a pretty horrible call, and the umpire is clearly an idiot, but the coach wasn't disputing the call- just the size of the batters box. Since the game had already started, he's SOL.
DennieLemeux 3 years ago
Watch the rule book comment. It might cause Doug or Florida to start bitching again and showing how much they don't know about baseball again.
chaz1177 3 years ago
well put
crimetoad 2 years ago
Right call by the umpire, but the explanation was too long. 4 feet by 6 feet is the batters box. Good job ump..and what a horrible coach to not realize that he agreed to play on that field before the game at the home plate meeting between the umpires, both Head coaches and maybe the captains of the respective teams.
umpchris 3 years ago
Ground rules should have been covered before the game. Just like the fair/Foul call. The line is the boundry. If it is crooked, it is still the boundry. It should have been noted before the game, and the box should have been repainted. Since it wasn't noted by the coaches, play the lines as they are correct. Umpire correct in this.
jeradshaw 3 years ago
MLB is 3x4, and whomever the home team is will be responsible for the field lines, coaches, batters, and on deck circle chalking. I'm sure the coach arguing the pointless point hosted a few games, he should know better!
ninomrmc1 3 years ago
Batter box is not 3x4...it's 4x6. Nice try dad.
cviverito 3 years ago
It is the home team's job to properly line the field.
It is the umpires job to make sure the home team did their job.
If these responsibilities are overlooked, you play the box one of two ways - as they should be or as they are. This umpire chose to play them as they are. Obviously...this is a trouble decision.
The bigger mistake is telling the coach anything other than "the batter was out of the box". That started a whole discussion that should have been ended early.
cviverito 3 years ago
You call the game with the markings that are on the field at the start of the game. It is the responsibility of the managers the agree on the fitness of the playing field before the start of the game. Once the pregame meeting commences, the fitness of the field is up to the umpire to determine. If the coach had a problem with the lines, he should have brought it up before the game. Not after his batter was called out
someoneinca 3 years ago 2
pretty much i remember that there making some lines in calripken ( i think i was done and just about to head home) and the umpire said the bozx was to small.
so he fix it before the game.
critter2 3 years ago
there are no ties. you either beat the throw or tag or you are declared out. The rule states that you must beat the throw. A tie is not beating the throw. Your out!
Dnealian 3 years ago
It is not up to the umpire to declare the box in regulation. it is up to the home team to make the field playable and legal. If no provisions are given during the managers meeting at home plate before the game starts then you play the field as is. It is up to the coach to protest the game conditions after the game.
Dnealian 3 years ago
happened to me before. i was doin a drag hit and the bloody ump called me out when i shd haf been in the box had it been in regulation
jpisthebest 3 years ago
i still cant get over the camrea guy who calls somone a moron.... shutup and let the officials handle it. you have no clue what your yelling about.
critter2 3 years ago
#1--You don't pull a rule book out on an umpire. You can ask him to review the rule with you, but he pulls out the book or allows you to do so. To wave a rule book in his face is a quick road to an ejection.
#2--Best way to end this argument--protest the game. The umpire made a rule interpretation regarding the size of the box. It isn't regulation. you protest the game. If the protest is upheld, the batter is back up and the rest of the game is replayed.
eauhomme 3 years ago
As an umpire myself, thank you.
PGOLDEN88 3 years ago
Any protest would have been invalid. You can't protest a non-regulation field once the game starts.
DennieLemeux 3 years ago
Field regulations are the responsibility of the umpire to notice them before the game begins. He missed it so they play with the field as is since no one noticed it before the game started. The coach should have seen it before his leadoff hitter got up there. His mistake and he paid the price for it. And, this argument should not have lasted as long as it did. The ump should have told him this is NOW regulation and we are going by it. Conversation over.
chaz1177 3 years ago
agree
jongreek 3 years ago
The field regulations shouldn't be the responsibility of the umpire, they can only work with what they are given. This is the same as in MLB how some fields have different groud rules. If things are grossly incorrect with the field such as a crooked foul line, or a box that is too small the umpire can stop the game and have it redone, but then everyone usually gets upset for delaying the game.
Labamba32 3 years ago
it is his responsibility before the game starts, once the game starts, you play with what you got
ceeeeej00 3 years ago
McClelland: There are no ties and there is no rule that says the tie goes to the runner. But the rule book does say that the runner must beat the ball to first base, and so if he doesn't beat the ball, then he is out. So you have to make the decision. That's why umpires are paid the money they are, to make the decision on if he did or if he didn't. The only thing you can do is go by whether or not he beat the ball. If he did, then he is safe.
chaz1177 3 years ago
Link for reference. Don't give me that "Don't quote the MLB" crap. Answer the disengage question without "Right handers and left handers follow the same rules". What the hell does that mean or even answer? U have discredited urself very badly. U have made a fool of urself for claiming to umpire professionally and can't even get a basic question right. Good job.
chaz1177 3 years ago
mlb(dot)mlb(dot)com(slash)
mlb(slash)official(underscore)info(slash)umpires(slash)
feature(dot)jsp(question mark)
feature(equal sign)mcclellandqa
chaz1177 3 years ago
), umpire are taught to say ties don't exist, but if a runner gets there simultaneously, then the bag or base is occupied at the time the throw gets there and the runner is always declared safe in such an event. I figured once you asked the question, this was some bullshit you'd pull out of your ass because you KNOW that in any event when this happens, a runner will be declared safe and read that mcclellan shit and went "watch this" and it makes you look lik even more of an idiot.
dougnhouston 3 years ago
OK, here's where you avoid this very simple question which will discredit you and your boyfriend McClellan - If two things happen at the same time, IE a runner touches first base at the same time the throw gets there...what do you call that Einstein????? Is that NOT a tie? I am in AWE that you'd even argue that simple fucking logic. Are you seriously some mentally retarded fucking handicapped kid who has nothing better to do but be a dumbshit?
dougnhouston 3 years ago
2 simple questions which are irrelevant to this play. It has to do with some credibility (what little can be obtained in this forum). Doug, what is the call if the runner and the throw get to the base at the same time? Also, is it possible for a right handed pitcher to make a pickoff move towards first without disengaging the rubber? I know they are off subject but what are the answers and why. Oh, and don't get so upset if not everyone sees things ur way. U must get upset every time U ump then.
chaz1177 3 years ago
Wait YOU are the one wanting to put YOURSELF in control by abusing a rule that allows you to always be right and never be challenged and you're telling me I'm the one who must get upset? I have a GREAT TIME umpiring and I'm very comfortable what I do. YOu keep saying we assume your status..which is funny becuase you NEVER directly answered that question when asked..but your reponses and even these questions you ask make it obvious...they are partial and meant to instigate issue, which U R about
dougnhouston 3 years ago
what is the call if the runner and the throw get to the base at the same time?
This is a ridiculous question because you don't even ask if the runner is being forced or not. The tie always goes to the runner, period and the base doesn't matter. Even the way you ASK questions opens you up to speculation and this is something asked like a little league or high school umpire. You won't tell us that is what you do because you know we are right.
dougnhouston 3 years ago
There is no rule that states that the tie goes to the runner. There are no ties in baseball. Period
kmcnelly 3 years ago
Dude, you're an idiot. Period. The rule clearly states that if the runner touches the base at the exact same time the ball gets to that base, then the runner will be declared safe. This is a BASIC rule. Get lost idiot.
dougnhouston 3 years ago
No it doesn't. It's a BASIC misconception. The rule ACTUALLY states that if the runner does not BEAT the ball to the bag he shall be declared out. If they got there at the same time then they didn't beat the ball, hence he is out. There is no rule in any rulebook that states that a tie goes to the runner.
kmcnelly 3 years ago
LOL, it is actualy stated like that huh? It's stated in ignorant terms like that? You are a dumbass. Do you even WATCH baseball? Dude, I'm an umpire and do this for a living. You learn in LITTLE LEAGUE for crying out loud the tie goes to the runner. That's BASIC BASEBALL...get a clue and stop making stupid comments on youtube just to get attention.
dougnhouston 3 years ago
Well I umpire college and I've been to Jim Evans JEAPU. And we learn the first day that there are no ties in baseball. YOu learned in LL from someone that does not know baseball. Quote me a rule, ANY RULE that states or implies that a tie goes to the runner and I will conceed the argument.
kmcnelly 3 years ago
Well, start conceding...
"A batter is out when after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base." Since the rule states "before",
dougnhouston 3 years ago
yeh, the rulebook doesn't say in those terms that a "tie goes to the runner" and I made that clear...but since the rule says he is out " he or first base is tagged before he touches the base", then by simple logic, once he touches base, if he is tagged or the base is touched AT THE SAME TIME which essenially isa TIE whether you like it or not, he's safe.
dougnhouston 3 years ago
You still ahven't given a rule. Which rule says that.
kmcnelly 3 years ago
section 6.05...wow, are all wannabe umpires on YouTube this difficult???? I quoted the damn rule.
dougnhouston 3 years ago
I guess we are done here, thanks for playing...thanks for stating the obvious - that you are clueless. I mean, whether you like or not or say it until you are blue, if the ball gets there at the same time as the runner, by definition, there is a TIE...in that occurrence, the runner is safe. Basic baseball there clueless. Take care. I gotta get to Fry's.
dougnhouston 3 years ago
there are no ties in baseball.
kmcnelly 3 years ago
No ties in baseball....again, what do you call it when a runner gets to a base at the same time he is tagged???? Uh...uh...duh george. I believe you are confusing "no ties in baseball" with SCORING as extra innings determines a winner...any idiot can determine that someone getting to a base at the same time as a tag is a TIE, no matter what YOU want to call it. Again, you're misreading the rule...if he got there at the same time, then he has beaten the tag..common sense.
dougnhouston 3 years ago
Rule 7.08 (e): "A runner is out when...(e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner." If the runner gets to the bag at the SAME TIME, then he did NOT get to the next base BEFORE he or the base was tagged. Therefore he is OUT.
kmcnelly 3 years ago
If the runner gets to the bag at the SAME TIME, then he did NOT get to the next base BEFORE he or the base was tagged.
Funny, I'm reading 7.08 and it does not say that anywhere...do you just make it up as you go along?
dougnhouston 3 years ago
(e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.
If he gets there at the same time, then he HAS reached the base BEFORE he was tagged...duh.
dougnhouston 3 years ago
You need to refer to 7.01 before you start making up your own rules from 7.05....
7.01
A runner acquires the right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is out
If he gets there at the same time, he is on the base and not out. Again, this is simple common sense.
dougnhouston 3 years ago
Here is some common sense for you...if a runner is simply standing on 2nd base, and a player tags him with the ball, is he out? No, why? Because he is TOUCHING THE BASE. Hence, if he's touching the base at the same time a tag is applied or the base is touched on a force out, the runner is safe because he is touching the base...wow, I can't believe someone would argue this...this is SIMPLE common sense.
dougnhouston 3 years ago
...before the ball or force out. YOu can't get there, "at the same time" AND still get there "before". It's physically impossible.
kmcnelly 3 years ago
It is all semantics really, but any way you look at it, if they reach at the same time, it is a TIE, hence the tie goes to the runner because the base or runner was not tagged BEFORE he reached base. Time to concede...man this is basic. I honestly can't believe you umpired in college.
dougnhouston 3 years ago
The fact that you said that a tie goes to the runner shatters any credibility that you might have had. You are a comeplete idiot.
DennieLemeux 3 years ago 2
Really, and where did YOU go to umpire school? In umpire school, you are taught vehmently that in the case of a play too close to be called (such as a TIE dumbshit), then the proper thing to do is side with the runner. I guess in little league, you guys apply Major League rules there don't you. Any fucking moron knows that if a runner occupies a base at the time he is tagged, he is safe. The only thing discredited is your fucking 2 inch dick.
dougnhouston 3 years ago
No, it isn't. Pro school NEVER, EVER will say "side with the runner". They also won't say, "Side with the fielder". There is offense and defense. Outs and safes. We aren't there to "side" with anyone. We are there to judge whether the player is out or safe. An umpire CAN NOT say "tie", therefore he must decide whehter the runner beat the ball or not. If he didn't, he's out. BTW, McLlealen(sp?) Is going to be a HOF ump. You want to tell him he's wrong?
kmcnelly 3 years ago
The rules do not contemplate a tie. Either the ball gets there first, or the runner does. The odds of an EXACT tie approach infinity. It has never happened. However, "perceived" ties, where human senses cannot detect which occurred first, happen all the time. Seasoned umps ALWAYS call the runner out. That way, you are calling it the same for both teams (consistency), and you get to grab an out. Anyone who says otherwise is full of shit. Ever hear of a batter "tieing" out a base hit?
liump 2 years ago
Again, dumbshit, by YOUR logic, if a player can be called out by being tagged while ON A FUCKING BASE, then the guy standing on first is in trouble...all a player has to do is walk over and tag him and he's out...because after all, with your logic, if he's touching a base, then he can be put out. Nice.
dougnhouston 3 years ago
No, dumbass. If he is already standing on the base, then he was there BEFORE he got tagged. If he got there at the same time, then he did NOT get there BEFORE the tag. Damn. You said "Tie goes to the runner". If he didn't beat the ball which means BEFORE(operative word), then he is out. The rule clearly states BEFORE. Try to change it now but U tried to discredit an MLB ump. U are an idiot. Never said I would "throw them out for simply bringing a rule book".
chaz1177 3 years ago 2
Again, is it possible for a right handed pitcher to throw to first base without disengaging the rubber and why? Pretty straight forward question for U pro. Ur obviously the only "pro" out there that knows. LOL. What is the answer to this seemingly easy question, "pro"?
chaz1177 3 years ago
I can see this written rule now, lol - "if the runner doesn't beat the ball to the bag" ROFL...the day a rule book refers to a base as a "bag" ROFL. What kind of drug are you smoking?
dougnhouston 3 years ago
I find it hiliarious that someone would come on here and make such a stupid comment just to get attention. So if the base runner gets to 1st base at the same time the throw gets there, um, gee retard, that would be a TIE...is the runner safe or out genius?
dougnhouston 3 years ago
As far as your second question goes, it doesn't matter if its a left handed or right handed pitcher, they both follow the same rules.
Then you end that with a dumbshit comment that I must be upset every time I um a game? Where, I ask WHERE is the vaility for that ridiculous comment other than wanting to say something stupid? You might as well have said something like "you must be gay". I mean come on man, get a clue.
dougnhouston 3 years ago
Ok. Answer the pitching question. Can a Right handed pitcher throw to first without disengaging the rubber? Oh, and BTW, I have a quote from an MLB umpire which states exactly why U are wrong. It doesn't matter if it is a force or not. The runner has to get to the base BEFORE he or the base is tagged. At the same time isn't beating the ball. Maybe U have heard of this ump. His name is Tim McClelland.
chaz1177 3 years ago
The base being tagged applies to a force play. The runner being tagged applies to a force or tag play. Common sense please. Most umpires have it. Why don't U?
chaz1177 3 years ago