There is one flaw in these tests, and that is that the damage out put doesn't apply to things such as strafing and maneuvering around a target. It only goes off a 100% accuracy demonstration and discounts things like human error and the fact that the flamer uses the projectile hitbox and not the bullet hit box. In otherwords it's simply easier to aim, in a 100% skilled environment where hitting a target with a meatshot occurs rather consistently he is indeed bad.
Those comparisons are meaningless. The Pyro is supposed to be an ambusher, so he's the one starting the damage. The axtingisher/AB combo is very powerful because this scout you used as a test subject WONT BE STANDING STILL, so comparing it to a BB dps doesn't mean anything. The problem is that those dps comparisons are made in a totally artificial environments and don't even suit the playstyle involved for a Pyro that should be flanking and trying to ambush people. A more powerful FT = WM1 fest
@RedOutlive While the pyro is indeed an ambush class, it doesn't really make much sense that his flamethrower does so little damage.
You could actually play like a pyro but instead be a soldier, you would have more health AND dish out more damage. I hope that makes sense. What I'm trying to say is that other classes can be much more effective, relying on the same technique.
it is getting difficult to play pyro, takes a skillful pyro to out play a mediocre player in other classes now. depends on his team too heavily, always needs to flank while the enemy team is distracted by your team, but very rewarding when you do a successful ambush or sneak attack that sets half the enemy team on fire. he feels more like a very good support class than an attack class.
The Pyro can kill 8/9 of the classes in the game in .5-.75 seconds with the Degreaser + Axtinguisher, and even a Heavy in about a second with the Shotgun mixed in. It's not even funny.
I speak from experience- I do such things all the time against competent foes.
Do NOT use the "well ur opponents suck lolol" argument on me. I have heard it so many times it's gotten old. How do you define "good"? You could define good as "having wallhacks" and easily make a case that any class is underpowered, since they have trouble against wallhackers.
When you're ready to make a feasible counterargument, I'll be glad to respond.
So why do you continue to cry underpowered if the Polycount update- which you have indirectly affirmed to negate many of the Pyro's problems- has been released?
You know something else? I'm tired of people complaining how weak the Flamethrower is.
Tell me. What is a Spy's most powerful weapon? His knife, of course. He is known for his backstab and is heavily based around scoring them.
Pyros might just now be based around the axe. And that's a perfectly fine thing.
@SomeGuyFromCrowd but you see, the game was balanced before any of the weapon updates. not perfectly, but the most balanced its ever been. that was before the axe came out. the knife was the standard. plus, the knife IS the spies weapon because it defines him, a backstaber. pyro; flamethrower no? if the axe was ment to be i do believe a class name change is in order.
@Esthin This is exactly how I play. I only use my Degreaser when I want to light people on fire (Usually in preparation for Axetingushing them) or reflect things. I usually am using my Shotgun, or Axetinguisher. I hardly ever kill anyone with my flamethrower.
New Flamer makes puff & sting faster than just M1ing with BBer.
Also, new Flamer is amazing, can't blame a rocket hitting me anymore on weapon change speed unless it's point blank, now it's pretty much all about how skilled you are.
While still only a hard counter to Sollys & Spys, I kinda like it now with the new Flamer just because I stand a lot more chance vs all other classes besides for Heavy & Sniper (which are the Pyro's hard counters, which I'm fine with).
Although I like the new flamer, it kinda proves the point:
You're just switching away from it faster, aren't you? Because you can't use the flamethrower as just a flamethrower, or any flamethrower as just a flamethrower. I had thought that the pyro was based around killing things with fire. What is wrong with wanting to kill things with a flamethrower? Is that so wrong?
It's not that it's wrong, it's just that it's usually better to puff & sting or pull out the shotty because puff & sting is a 1hit combo and Scouts are about the only thing that can escape me properly (that and I dont want to risk getting meat shotted in the face if I try to sting him). Flamer still has it's uses (blazing tatics at choke points still cause mass confusion). I've been using my flamer as more of a just airblasting weapon & for the afterburn just to mess up people's aim
It is less effective than losing your power to backblast (which can save you in MANY situations).
The Backburner is just a bad weapon when compaired to the standard flamer and the Degresser, if it did more damage than the flamer before the nerf (something to make it even with the mini-gun) then it would be just as good as the ability to backblast. Sadly the only way to kill a heavy with it depends on the heavy's skill and not yours (the heavy has to be delayed to turn around sadly).
The pyro should instead have an effect where at point blank he does little to no damage, and the further from him he is, the more damaging his attack is.
A simple way to improve the Pyro is to increase the flamethrowers range but tighten the cone a bit. Tighter particles means more damage, but also means more aiming is required.
The Pyro can't really claim to be CQC Master even after they rebuff the FT, so they might as well stop pretending he his.
This may be so in straight up combat, but people combat, are surprised or unaware of the Pyro sometimes in combat. And don't forget TEAM fortress two, people are not normally alone in this game. Bary survive a encounter with a Pyro normally leaves you dead. Even so when your losing so much heath so fat people panic, and it normally effects their aiming, they might try to retreat and live, but the Pyro is as fast as any other class and you will be killed.
@Treblaine Agree, look's like backburner gets nerf in damage against the day before the the most bullshits update ever 119. and valve pround of this gayshit update >.>
@MaxRideWizardLord but don't forget the after-burn impact, it's an element that isn't factored with heavy or any other "high-DPS" class.
They restored it a bit though, AB-flamethrower is now at least more powerful than shotgun in DPS for close range and of course FT is a continuous firing weapon, with no reloads and high capacity which certainly makes it easier to maximise DPS.
The reload is not a factor to make weapon an unreal ridiculous damage. Pyro is way too pathetic class, and no, shotgun still do more Damage than flamethrower. I would happy if the pyro will got 30 ammo and then reload again but with this fact he will must get atleast 3x more damage to make it worth to use. And I don't find afterburn is really usefull, it's take 50hp for 10 seconds and easy to disguish. I hope valve will remember their pyro's graphic - rire range: good damage, very close: dead.
@MaxRideWizardLord after-burn = 60HP & "easy to extinguish" doesn't make it irrelevant.
Valve made some tweaks; flame-thrower = 140hp/sec; shotgun = ~85hp every .625 sec = 136hp/sec both point blank.
Asking for 3x that is the same as CRITS! If you think Flame-Thrower needs equivalent to 100% critical hits then you are being incredibly greedy and noobish. Pyro's weapon is now ON PAR with all other classes, you don't need a ridiculously overwhelming advantage.
Now take a pyro and try to play with players that's not buy TF2 today.Even medic will rape you with blutsauger in close range, a smart medic will even not to go in close range with you.Shotgun is of course strong, but flamethrower must be MUCH stornger because it main his weapon and ONLY close range and shotgun has most classes.Id rather take engyneer and go fight with nshotgun than pyro, as the engy he will credit to team because he also build teleports\etc.Anyclass ambush even better than pyro
@MaxRideWizardLord Yeah, you're right (hate to admit it) I jsut came back from a great TF2 game buffing my entire team every now and then a pyro would ambush me. I just back-peddle (out of range of flames) and pelt with needles, works 90%. But Pyro ambushed STILL kept decimating my entire buffed team with the flame-thrower, that wide flame can pass through and simultaneously damage multiple targets then afterburn. Shotgun can't do that.
In practice pyro's flamethrower is still VERY effective.
Seeing the video makes me think that the flamethrower really could use some more damage, but at the same time I can't help but think that people still aren't using the airblast to its fullest, because in addition to the reflect, it has two uses:
1. Keeping enemies away from you or allowing you to escape their direct damage
2. Keeping enemies from escaping your axstinguisher (or in a worst case scenario where you die, keeping them from getting health before the afterburn takes care of them .)
This brings the focus back to pyro being an ambush class, and allows him an escape if he doesn't have any other options. Hardly anyone I've played against uses it in this way, but the problem in this case is that it's predominantly skill dependent on both the pyro player and the enemy he's facing. Compare airblast to the soldier's rocket jump. It's possible to use it in the most obvious way, but it has so many utility uses that it's almost impossible to play the class without using it now.
Thanks for this video, really concisely explains why the Pyro is useless at the moment. I used to play Pyro as my main and even though he still has his airblast/axetinguisher like you said, the flamethrower is useless. I've resorted to using him as a long range annoyance, flaring medics/scouts/snipers and reflecting rockets, arrows, stickies and ubers. A pyro who has to use a shotgun or stay away from the enemy isn't really a pyro at all. It's very frustrating.
This video is really good, and demonstrates the problem with the pyro. Anyone in the comments who says otherwise is probably just bad at the game and gets killed by W+M1 pyros.
@jdlaporte001 The old pyro got owned by every class, period. Even a spy could beat him in a one on one fight. Anyone who's not awful knows Pyro was underpowered before, and is only useful as a support class now.
Add MOVEMENT to your equation - and your whole argument goes down the shitter. Especially when the pyro knows his shit, and uses A, S, and D as well as W.
The big picture... Being too close... Not seeing the forest from the trees...
@TrustYourOwnInstinct Yes, let's add movement to this equation. S+M1 raped Pyro in the face *before the nerfs.* Oh, what's that, he's supposed to be a flanking class? A good Spy is both better at *that* job, and is now better in a stand up fight.
1. I rarely see people panicing unless they're low on health, besides having a medic pretty much nullifies the afterburn since he can extinguish it in few seconds. Theoretically Backburner is good for ambushing, but the back crit angle is very small, most of the time you just end up dealing normal damage from behind instead of crits if your opponent was moving around.
2. It causes a lot less panic than single sticky bomb.
Although not as blinding as it was in TFC, the flames from the flamethrower + being on fire = not being able to see anything. But of course that doesn't make it any better since the Pyro did that prior to that update.
you make a good argument, but the air blast has much more uses than you gave, a quick air blast on any class will throw off their aim and and give you a moment of confusion to take adventage of, also disabling them from running for a short moment, and forcing them into a cornor.
Your results ignore the fact that in actually playing the game:
1. Pyro has a STREAM of fire, shotgun, scattergun, pistol, etc are interval. It's much easier to consistently hit with flamethrowers when people are actually moving.
2. You're underestimating axtinguisher. Again, in a real game (eg moving people, you're not have a constant hitting point blank flame) Axtinguisher's output is going to be much higher, especially taking down higher health classes.
So pyros are only good for being an irritation, deflecting projectiles, and babysitting engineers. The only way for a pyro to win a fight is to be a better player.
@tf2whackyengineer I hope don't will be an idiot and make the pyro finaly the best close combat class who do best damage in close range (better than heavy and demoman).They should give for the flame this technology - keep burning people without let them out of fire, that's make an increase the damage for a time.So if you are ambush pyro you will must had a GOOD chance to kill even a overhealed heavy if he don't start his AC.Heavy, Scout, Soldier will be still thei counter,if they will keep away.
@tf2whackyengineer i just had a brilliant idea a while back. why not make the flames blinding? and i mean BLINDING. think about it, being unable to see a thing when being sprayed by a flamethrower makes close combat with a pyro little more than suicide. that forces the other classes to avoid getting in the pyro's range at all costs, while giving the pyro the close range dominance that valve promised :D
I do have to point out that the Axtinguisher combo is faster than direct BB fire when used on classes with 175 or more HP. That means soldiers, demos (targe or otherwise), and heavies. However, I would also like to point out that soldiers, demos, and heavies are all direct counters to the Pyro. Soldiers and demos can spam the ground below them in order to kill the Pyro with splash damage. The demomen will likely kill themselves in the process, but the Pyro trying to axe him is gauranteed to die.
I agree 100%. Pyro has become the shotgunner class. There have been plenty of stealth nerfs to the pyro like Jarate and airblasts removing fire but this was the straw that broke the camel's back.
It's also worth noting that, before the patch, a pyro could airblast some of their own flames to increase their burn radius, thus setting elusive things such as Scouts on fire and forcing them to retreat.
But obviously valve's new stance that pyros should either W+M1 or Airblast 100% of the time means such a feature shall never return.
wait, they have revolver buff??????? Revolver never kill pyro or let him with 1hp with 3 shots... But still, even old revolver is better than flamethrower, first of all, you can be away from flames
If they want to turn the pyro into a support class (protect engies and buildings, flush out spies, hide from anyone with a gun) then Valve has the right idea. Otherwise, they should pay attention to this video!
When the class meant to be the king of CQB is out-damaged at point-blank by a non-backstabbing spy, something is very wrong.
To be honest, this is all irrelevant. If you want damage, go Backburner. If you want to deflect shit and put teammates out, go Flamethrower. Pyro is still very potent, and if anything, I see even more pyros than ever doing just as good as before...
I really hate it when people do this, get a clue people, dps doesn't matter jack shit in game. The flamethrower is very easy to hit people with so its dps generally stays the same but you can not consistently hit every shot with a pistol/shotgun/melee weapon. In a close range fight between me (as soldier with the shotty) and a pyro with the flame thrower, the pyro would most likely win because it's very difficult to hit shotgun shots dead, on every time.
@yoda9931 You should really play more pyro. Running up to flame a heavy in the back, only to have him spin up his gun, turn 180 degrees to look where the fire suddenly came from, and then mowing you down is a bit annoying. This has happened with other classes as well.
Also, at the ranges the flamethrower is effective, it is not hard to get your rounds on target. At the ranges you begin to miss, the flamethrower is no longer effective. Don't forget, the FT suffers from lag where others don't.
@yoda9931 I 100% agree. Even though what he's showing is a damage comparison, I don't believe anyone and everyone will be using an aimbot 100% of the time, making the flamethrower completely useless. This is a technique change, between the 2 flamethrower choices, and only means that there is more of a choice between airblast or not. If you want ambush, pick the backburner, if you want defense, then pick airblast.
Pre-Pyro Update: Flamethrower is the worst weapon in the game, Pyros must rely on shotgun for kills
Pyro Update: Flamethrower becomes overpowered, "W+M1 NOOB WAAAAH", and is then quickly nerfed. W+M1 whining continues.
Now: Flamethrower is the worst weapon in the game, Pyros must rely on shotgun for kills
Personally I have never had trouble killing W+M1 pyros in any one on one fight, and don't understand why Valve has giving in to the demands of terrible players.
@Furmanjosh It's because they thought it was right. Robin was tricked into beliving this because he only fights experienced pyros and he was mislead by the newbies who claimed to be experts.
The flamethrower has always had these kinds of problems. When you're going up against any burst weapon, like a shotgun or rocket launcher, the enemy gets to frontload a huge chunk of damage which can often leave you half-dead before you've done any real damage at all to your enemy. The flamethrower at least used to have decent over-time DPS to compensate for this, but Valve in their infinite wisdom decided the flamethrower should have crummy DPS in addition to bad range and lack of burst damage.
Ok but in normal play people are mobile and it is EVER SO EASY to hit them with the flame thrower as it requires little aim and has extended hit boxes. The pyro also has good health and good mobility.
Your arguments make sense if you're trying to convert the pyro into a play-all class that is well balanced in its playstyle. According to the way you want the game - I think scout should get more HP and maybe an explosive weapon. Heavy could use a speed boost and the medic needs double jump.
@pauleanonymous Wow, did you even listen to anything he said? He didn't want the pyro to be a play-all class, he saying the pyro was never the master of close combat and giving him the damage buff will solve the problem.
2) Yes it has relatively low DPS, but it's spray and pray - there is a HUGE difference between wildly winging your mouse around in the face of the enemy and hitting them DIRECT with full shotgun blasts.
This guy's reasoning is a bit flawed, true, but as a pyro, the damage/ammo management (or lack of, I guess)/less requirement of aiming does not even come close for the ability to pick away at people from out of flamethrower range.
Up close the pyro will probably beat most classes, but if they have a chance to get out of close or flamethrower range, the pyro's got no chance. The only long range weapon they have is the flare gun, which is a whole different issue that needs to be addressed.
I don't disagree with you on your overall point, but your axetinguisher demonstration is a bit flawed. You only show it off against a single 125 health class. Yeah, if you are facing a 125 health class, it isn't going to do you any good. However if you are facing a higher health class, like a soldier or a heavy, particularly if they are overhealed, the axetinguisher will come out way on top of sitting there and trying to flame them down.
@Esgaro But this will only come in handy if the enemy doesn't notice you at first, since a Soldier or Heavy would gun you down well before you could kill them. The likely reason for them not seeing you would be because their back is turned, in which case the Backburner would proooobably still outperform the combo.
1) Flamethrower requires lower skill investment than the other guns. You're acting like it's natural for another enemy with a shotgun to connect every pellet of every shot. But if they can pull that off, don't they deserve to win? It's much more skill than keeping a field of particles over the enemy.
2) You treat air blast like it's only for reflections, but good pyros use it to incapacitate enemies (and especially use it to help guarantee Axtinguisher hits.)
Further, if you just ramp up damage, the skill investment stays the same, so Flamethrower remains a low-skill weapon but it gets lots of freak-accident kills at point blank -- the same problem that the Direct Hit has.
To be honest, I believe they should buff the afterburn damage, but have it burn longer. (i.e. 60 damage over 15 seconds) This allows the person ignited more time to heal, while it's still a reasonable amount of damage for the Pyro.
I was discussing the Pyro changes with a friend, and we had the idea that all current changes could be kept, but to make up for it, fire damage would last forever until extinguished by water, health packs/locker, Medic/Dispenser healing, or the compression blast. Probably not a good change, but an interesting one to be sure.
@fortyblinks this one is the best suggestion I've heard so far, it keeps the pyro in his place as an ambusher and mobile unit and punishes his wm1 (since he'll still be out dps'd and killed if he hangs around), and then makes the other team rely more on teamwork. Which would be nice since it's pretty much lonewolf demo/soldier fortress lately.
90%v of arguements are void in this video. You dont stand still and fire, you move around airblast and use a combination of weapons, I still pwn hard with pyro.
@TheBobIsComing Die... from the afterburn... after THIS update? You've gotta be kidding me. Since the update, I can't count the number of times the reduced time has SAVED my ass. Reducing the afterburn was an absolutely terrible idea, stacked on the bad idea of reducing his damage output. I'm a spy and even I'm vouching for Pyros...
Thanks for doing this video, other classes, heavy specifically, were starting to piss me off claiming they had skill when they turned around and killed a pyro.
I'm sure it will be awhile before Valve does anything about it.
Honestly I thought the Pyro was fine before the nerf. Fire damage always was, as demonstrated by you with the backburner, roughly equivalent to the shotgun, but the flame thrower had the advantage of being easier to aim and attacking multiple enemies and causing after burn damage. Now the flames are so weak you can barely kill anything with it.
Rock > Scissors > Paper > Rock ??? Have you thought about that?
s3n5o2l 1 week ago
People who complain and die to about W + M1-ers are bad, straight to the point.
marcster1994 2 months ago
20% is too much,i know that the pyro was the most OP class,but they should have decreased the afterburn because that's what made them OP.
mutalisklover 2 months ago
@mutalisklover OP?! you must be fucking retarded.
Jitterskull 1 month ago
@Jitterskull I prefer mentally handicap :)
mutalisklover 1 month ago
I agree
Eaglescoutkm1 2 months ago
Valve shitting on the Pyro for no good reason
rmeddy1 3 months ago
If you have the degreaser Axitinguisher+degreaser is a very good combo
Vitekdude 4 months ago
Bla Bla Bla Mr. Freeman
Gigidag77 5 months ago
There is one flaw in these tests, and that is that the damage out put doesn't apply to things such as strafing and maneuvering around a target. It only goes off a 100% accuracy demonstration and discounts things like human error and the fact that the flamer uses the projectile hitbox and not the bullet hit box. In otherwords it's simply easier to aim, in a 100% skilled environment where hitting a target with a meatshot occurs rather consistently he is indeed bad.
JamesJimRaynor 5 months ago
But with the flame thrower, you dont even need to aim....
thisismyname1920 6 months ago
@thisismyname1920 extremely true.
adliikhwan280 5 months ago
@thisismyname1920
Flamethrower requires more aim than hitscan to do full DPS. It requires less aim however, to hit once (and ignite). Note the difference.
go123450 5 months ago
Those comparisons are meaningless. The Pyro is supposed to be an ambusher, so he's the one starting the damage. The axtingisher/AB combo is very powerful because this scout you used as a test subject WONT BE STANDING STILL, so comparing it to a BB dps doesn't mean anything. The problem is that those dps comparisons are made in a totally artificial environments and don't even suit the playstyle involved for a Pyro that should be flanking and trying to ambush people. A more powerful FT = WM1 fest
RedOutlive 7 months ago
@RedOutlive While the pyro is indeed an ambush class, it doesn't really make much sense that his flamethrower does so little damage.
You could actually play like a pyro but instead be a soldier, you would have more health AND dish out more damage. I hope that makes sense. What I'm trying to say is that other classes can be much more effective, relying on the same technique.
Lemonukeable 4 months ago
it is getting difficult to play pyro, takes a skillful pyro to out play a mediocre player in other classes now. depends on his team too heavily, always needs to flank while the enemy team is distracted by your team, but very rewarding when you do a successful ambush or sneak attack that sets half the enemy team on fire. he feels more like a very good support class than an attack class.
fiercepyro 7 months ago
What about the flare gun?
themagicmumbo 8 months ago
ok
cadetmaster1 11 months ago
Ugh, you mumble too much. I can't get all of what you're saying. Just a tip.
Giradox 1 year ago
You didn't really touch on how the flamethrower has afterburn. Otherwise, great advice.
ohjesusohjesus 1 year ago
Good lord, you can't stop, can you?
The Pyro can kill 8/9 of the classes in the game in .5-.75 seconds with the Degreaser + Axtinguisher, and even a Heavy in about a second with the Shotgun mixed in. It's not even funny.
I speak from experience- I do such things all the time against competent foes.
SomeGuyFromCrowd 1 year ago
@SomeGuyFromCrowd This was made before the Degreaser...
revam1 1 year ago
@SomeGuyFromCrowd your foes (or rather just the heavy) is not competent enough. srsly. even with the degreaser =/
J03L14 1 year ago
@J03L14 H
Do NOT use the "well ur opponents suck lolol" argument on me. I have heard it so many times it's gotten old. How do you define "good"? You could define good as "having wallhacks" and easily make a case that any class is underpowered, since they have trouble against wallhackers.
When you're ready to make a feasible counterargument, I'll be glad to respond.
SomeGuyFromCrowd 1 year ago
@SomeGuyFromCrowd this video was made before Polycount bro.
massampage 1 year ago
@massampage
So why do you continue to cry underpowered if the Polycount update- which you have indirectly affirmed to negate many of the Pyro's problems- has been released?
You know something else? I'm tired of people complaining how weak the Flamethrower is.
Tell me. What is a Spy's most powerful weapon? His knife, of course. He is known for his backstab and is heavily based around scoring them.
Pyros might just now be based around the axe. And that's a perfectly fine thing.
SomeGuyFromCrowd 1 year ago
@SomeGuyFromCrowd but you see, the game was balanced before any of the weapon updates. not perfectly, but the most balanced its ever been. that was before the axe came out. the knife was the standard. plus, the knife IS the spies weapon because it defines him, a backstaber. pyro; flamethrower no? if the axe was ment to be i do believe a class name change is in order.
massampage 1 year ago
@massampage
So suddenly the Pyro is not so underpowered after all!~
The Pyro might just be more of a crazy axe-wielding creep than a Flamethrower-toting lunatic. And that's fine by me.
Times do change, you know.
SomeGuyFromCrowd 1 year ago
@SomeGuyFromCrowd i never said he was underpowered, i merely said he is not using his weapon as it should be used given his class name.
massampage 1 year ago
The problem is that the flamethrower simply requires no skill to use, so buffing the damage is simply out of the question.
JamesJimRaynor 1 year ago
Re-do the axstinguisher test with either the soldier or the heavy, and you should also do it again with the degreaser.
modeadsex123 1 year ago
I really hope valve sees stuff like this.
1xadavid 1 year ago
And the Degreaser solves the problem of not being able to switch to the Axtinguisher fast enough.
Blaqoon 1 year ago
As someone who plays pyro quite often, I do infact rely on my shotgun MUCH more than my flamethrower.
Most of my kills come from the shotgun/axestinguisher, simply because the flamerthrower is unreliable.
The Degreaser is good though, Lets me switch to the shotgun+Switch back to airblast quickly.
Esthin 1 year ago
@Esthin This is exactly how I play. I only use my Degreaser when I want to light people on fire (Usually in preparation for Axetingushing them) or reflect things. I usually am using my Shotgun, or Axetinguisher. I hardly ever kill anyone with my flamethrower.
mi9k3 1 year ago
New Flamer makes puff & sting faster than just M1ing with BBer.
Also, new Flamer is amazing, can't blame a rocket hitting me anymore on weapon change speed unless it's point blank, now it's pretty much all about how skilled you are.
While still only a hard counter to Sollys & Spys, I kinda like it now with the new Flamer just because I stand a lot more chance vs all other classes besides for Heavy & Sniper (which are the Pyro's hard counters, which I'm fine with).
TnalX22 1 year ago
@TnalX22
Although I like the new flamer, it kinda proves the point:
You're just switching away from it faster, aren't you? Because you can't use the flamethrower as just a flamethrower, or any flamethrower as just a flamethrower. I had thought that the pyro was based around killing things with fire. What is wrong with wanting to kill things with a flamethrower? Is that so wrong?
andros800 1 year ago
@andros800
It's not that it's wrong, it's just that it's usually better to puff & sting or pull out the shotty because puff & sting is a 1hit combo and Scouts are about the only thing that can escape me properly (that and I dont want to risk getting meat shotted in the face if I try to sting him). Flamer still has it's uses (blazing tatics at choke points still cause mass confusion). I've been using my flamer as more of a just airblasting weapon & for the afterburn just to mess up people's aim
TnalX22 1 year ago
@TnalX22
Well, I guess what I'm asking is:
Is there something wrong with wanting to have an unlockable flamethrower that can kill people.
andros800 1 year ago
@andros800
It is less effective than losing your power to backblast (which can save you in MANY situations).
The Backburner is just a bad weapon when compaired to the standard flamer and the Degresser, if it did more damage than the flamer before the nerf (something to make it even with the mini-gun) then it would be just as good as the ability to backblast. Sadly the only way to kill a heavy with it depends on the heavy's skill and not yours (the heavy has to be delayed to turn around sadly).
TnalX22 1 year ago
@TnalX22
A wise observation. Nothing to add to this other than just an, "agreed."
andros800 1 year ago
you forgot about all of the battle tactics like circle strafing and all those other tactics
lolauses 1 year ago
Deadringer/revolver spy rapes in CQC.
Krauserowns 1 year ago
excellent analysis
MiViska 1 year ago
The pyro should instead have an effect where at point blank he does little to no damage, and the further from him he is, the more damaging his attack is.
Ymgarl 1 year ago
And see kids, this is why you don't play with a gimmicky melee and just hold down mouse1.
CopyrightPropaganda 1 year ago
my friend is a master at reflecting arrows, his record for headshots as pyro is i think 4
gamegeek93 1 year ago
A simple way to improve the Pyro is to increase the flamethrowers range but tighten the cone a bit. Tighter particles means more damage, but also means more aiming is required.
The Pyro can't really claim to be CQC Master even after they rebuff the FT, so they might as well stop pretending he his.
shade270 1 year ago
you can reflect arrows and jarate.
sunderkeenin 1 year ago
This may be so in straight up combat, but people combat, are surprised or unaware of the Pyro sometimes in combat. And don't forget TEAM fortress two, people are not normally alone in this game. Bary survive a encounter with a Pyro normally leaves you dead. Even so when your losing so much heath so fat people panic, and it normally effects their aiming, they might try to retreat and live, but the Pyro is as fast as any other class and you will be killed.
ZonnollyC 1 year ago
The puff n' sting combo can take 1,2 seconds under the right circumstances
PlayStationDaniel 1 year ago
Dude, you need to slow down. You talk like a million miles a second at some points.
EdelSeriman 1 year ago
Wait... does that mathematically make sense? If you remove 20% then add 20%... you won't necessarily come back to 100%.
.
Example: 500 - 20% = 400
.
20% of 400 = 80
.
80 + 400 = 480(!)
.
If you reduce by 20% you have to increase by 25% to restore, back-burner is about 4% weaker than original flame-thrower.
Treblaine 1 year ago
@Treblaine Agree, look's like backburner gets nerf in damage against the day before the the most bullshits update ever 119. and valve pround of this gayshit update >.>
MaxRideWizardLord 1 year ago
@MaxRideWizardLord but don't forget the after-burn impact, it's an element that isn't factored with heavy or any other "high-DPS" class.
They restored it a bit though, AB-flamethrower is now at least more powerful than shotgun in DPS for close range and of course FT is a continuous firing weapon, with no reloads and high capacity which certainly makes it easier to maximise DPS.
Treblaine 1 year ago
The reload is not a factor to make weapon an unreal ridiculous damage. Pyro is way too pathetic class, and no, shotgun still do more Damage than flamethrower. I would happy if the pyro will got 30 ammo and then reload again but with this fact he will must get atleast 3x more damage to make it worth to use. And I don't find afterburn is really usefull, it's take 50hp for 10 seconds and easy to disguish. I hope valve will remember their pyro's graphic - rire range: good damage, very close: dead.
MaxRideWizardLord 1 year ago
@MaxRideWizardLord after-burn = 60HP & "easy to extinguish" doesn't make it irrelevant.
Valve made some tweaks; flame-thrower = 140hp/sec; shotgun = ~85hp every .625 sec = 136hp/sec both point blank.
Asking for 3x that is the same as CRITS! If you think Flame-Thrower needs equivalent to 100% critical hits then you are being incredibly greedy and noobish. Pyro's weapon is now ON PAR with all other classes, you don't need a ridiculously overwhelming advantage.
Treblaine 1 year ago
Now take a pyro and try to play with players that's not buy TF2 today.Even medic will rape you with blutsauger in close range, a smart medic will even not to go in close range with you.Shotgun is of course strong, but flamethrower must be MUCH stornger because it main his weapon and ONLY close range and shotgun has most classes.Id rather take engyneer and go fight with nshotgun than pyro, as the engy he will credit to team because he also build teleports\etc.Anyclass ambush even better than pyro
MaxRideWizardLord 1 year ago
@MaxRideWizardLord Yeah, you're right (hate to admit it) I jsut came back from a great TF2 game buffing my entire team every now and then a pyro would ambush me. I just back-peddle (out of range of flames) and pelt with needles, works 90%. But Pyro ambushed STILL kept decimating my entire buffed team with the flame-thrower, that wide flame can pass through and simultaneously damage multiple targets then afterburn. Shotgun can't do that.
In practice pyro's flamethrower is still VERY effective.
Treblaine 1 year ago
@Treblaine That's what he said in the video.
Hannchen2006 1 year ago
Seeing the video makes me think that the flamethrower really could use some more damage, but at the same time I can't help but think that people still aren't using the airblast to its fullest, because in addition to the reflect, it has two uses:
1. Keeping enemies away from you or allowing you to escape their direct damage
2. Keeping enemies from escaping your axstinguisher (or in a worst case scenario where you die, keeping them from getting health before the afterburn takes care of them .)
Skexis64 1 year ago
This brings the focus back to pyro being an ambush class, and allows him an escape if he doesn't have any other options. Hardly anyone I've played against uses it in this way, but the problem in this case is that it's predominantly skill dependent on both the pyro player and the enemy he's facing. Compare airblast to the soldier's rocket jump. It's possible to use it in the most obvious way, but it has so many utility uses that it's almost impossible to play the class without using it now.
Skexis64 1 year ago
@Skexis64 And then you'd be better off using another class for ambushing because the DPS is outclassed by even the fucking engie's backup.
Makron5 1 year ago
Thanks for this video, really concisely explains why the Pyro is useless at the moment. I used to play Pyro as my main and even though he still has his airblast/axetinguisher like you said, the flamethrower is useless. I've resorted to using him as a long range annoyance, flaring medics/scouts/snipers and reflecting rockets, arrows, stickies and ubers. A pyro who has to use a shotgun or stay away from the enemy isn't really a pyro at all. It's very frustrating.
Cheers for the vid.
PTizzleAusGN 1 year ago
Should just remove the class. Everyone hates it.
datareaper 1 year ago
This video is really good, and demonstrates the problem with the pyro. Anyone in the comments who says otherwise is probably just bad at the game and gets killed by W+M1 pyros.
TheBrokeGamer 1 year ago
flamethrower = easiest weapon to use
kaneangel2012 1 year ago
@kaneangel2012 No, Heavy's minigun is WAY easier and is a blatant W+M1 weapon
Treblaine 1 year ago
excellent review of the changes, thanks for putting this together so succinctly
MrRipYourHeadOff 1 year ago
@jdlaporte001 The old pyro got owned by every class, period. Even a spy could beat him in a one on one fight. Anyone who's not awful knows Pyro was underpowered before, and is only useful as a support class now.
thefartingdonkey 1 year ago
DUMBASSES. the pyro is a flanking class you're not suppose to be able to own point blank from the front
now STOP BITCHING fucking fags
roxas53 1 year ago
@roxas53 The class that's supposed to be the master of close quarters isn't supposed to own point blank?
K
thefartingdonkey 1 year ago
Very well researched video. Finally some proving of assumptions that have long been touted. Hopefully Valve will see this!
nice work!
Davental 1 year ago
Not anymore pals
DrackeMaehara 1 year ago
Good vid and good points!
SmashHermano 1 year ago
No. Just no.
Add MOVEMENT to your equation - and your whole argument goes down the shitter. Especially when the pyro knows his shit, and uses A, S, and D as well as W.
The big picture... Being too close... Not seeing the forest from the trees...
TrustYourOwnInstinct 1 year ago
@TrustYourOwnInstinct Yes, let's add movement to this equation. S+M1 raped Pyro in the face *before the nerfs.* Oh, what's that, he's supposed to be a flanking class? A good Spy is both better at *that* job, and is now better in a stand up fight.
thefartingdonkey 1 year ago
wow great vid man, thumbs up
D3STRUCTION1 1 year ago
Jeesus christ people you will NEVER get a pyro that stands still as he flames.
ngaragulya 1 year ago
Hi! very Nice Test's
Can i just ask what Mods your using? :D
SigmaStarcraft 1 year ago
@GenMeatShield
1. I rarely see people panicing unless they're low on health, besides having a medic pretty much nullifies the afterburn since he can extinguish it in few seconds. Theoretically Backburner is good for ambushing, but the back crit angle is very small, most of the time you just end up dealing normal damage from behind instead of crits if your opponent was moving around.
2. It causes a lot less panic than single sticky bomb.
3. True, but doesn't make flamer any better.
Orzasku 1 year ago
>Implying that in the game people stand still and implying that people never miss, especially with shotguns.
fusoya1 1 year ago
@fusoya1 >implying it's hard to hit with a shotgun at point blank
>greentext implications
Swoftu 1 year ago
Although not as blinding as it was in TFC, the flames from the flamethrower + being on fire = not being able to see anything. But of course that doesn't make it any better since the Pyro did that prior to that update.
chibichibininjachibi 1 year ago
Good, the flamethrower was OP before.
nollix 1 year ago
@nollix No. It wasn't.
GeneralofBalls 1 year ago
@nollix You are an idiot. Nothing more needs to be said.
phoenixfire2001 1 year ago
you make a good argument, but the air blast has much more uses than you gave, a quick air blast on any class will throw off their aim and and give you a moment of confusion to take adventage of, also disabling them from running for a short moment, and forcing them into a cornor.
mooman1080 1 year ago
Your results ignore the fact that in actually playing the game:
1. Pyro has a STREAM of fire, shotgun, scattergun, pistol, etc are interval. It's much easier to consistently hit with flamethrowers when people are actually moving.
2. You're underestimating axtinguisher. Again, in a real game (eg moving people, you're not have a constant hitting point blank flame) Axtinguisher's output is going to be much higher, especially taking down higher health classes.
Don't conclude with data from bots
jijHansen 1 year ago
one of the best TF2 videos I ever seen.
fire2box 1 year ago
So pyros are only good for being an irritation, deflecting projectiles, and babysitting engineers. The only way for a pyro to win a fight is to be a better player.
Eurytus 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
RESPONSE TO ALL OF WHAT YOU JUST SAID!
1. Crowd control
2. Afterburn
3. Aiming
Barsee23 1 year ago
@Barsee23
1. What crowd control? People have to be afraid of the fire.
2. Afterburn = 36 damage over 6 seconds. You can get more than that in under a second with a well placed shotgun blast.
3.Your opponents have hitscan weapons that can out damage you, even if you aim on target every time.
tf2whackyengineer 1 year ago 35
@tf2whackyengineer I hope don't will be an idiot and make the pyro finaly the best close combat class who do best damage in close range (better than heavy and demoman).They should give for the flame this technology - keep burning people without let them out of fire, that's make an increase the damage for a time.So if you are ambush pyro you will must had a GOOD chance to kill even a overhealed heavy if he don't start his AC.Heavy, Scout, Soldier will be still thei counter,if they will keep away.
MaxRideWizardLord 1 year ago
@tf2whackyengineer i just had a brilliant idea a while back. why not make the flames blinding? and i mean BLINDING. think about it, being unable to see a thing when being sprayed by a flamethrower makes close combat with a pyro little more than suicide. that forces the other classes to avoid getting in the pyro's range at all costs, while giving the pyro the close range dominance that valve promised :D
guruguru687 1 year ago
Hey man, I was want add you to friend list, but when I your hotmail adress, this does not help D: Please say me your steam acc name!
MaxRideWizardLord 1 year ago
Now even the spy better close combat fighter than pyro D: even pisto >:(
MaxRideWizardLord 1 year ago
Watching this video makes it plain to see that Valve still doesn't know where the pyro fits in the game.
Famppis 1 year ago
Wow your tf2 videos are awesome in pyro changes and tele traps... You Should Make More Of Them!
babyshawn21994 1 year ago
I do have to point out that the Axtinguisher combo is faster than direct BB fire when used on classes with 175 or more HP. That means soldiers, demos (targe or otherwise), and heavies. However, I would also like to point out that soldiers, demos, and heavies are all direct counters to the Pyro. Soldiers and demos can spam the ground below them in order to kill the Pyro with splash damage. The demomen will likely kill themselves in the process, but the Pyro trying to axe him is gauranteed to die.
Netaviofhell 1 year ago
I agree 100%. Pyro has become the shotgunner class. There have been plenty of stealth nerfs to the pyro like Jarate and airblasts removing fire but this was the straw that broke the camel's back.
SiNN4R 1 year ago 28
@SiNN4R Actually, it was more like a granite block of repressed hatred.
I know Valve's sick of Pyro gender debates, but it's not like it's the class's fault.
Exccentrous1 1 year ago
It's also worth noting that, before the patch, a pyro could airblast some of their own flames to increase their burn radius, thus setting elusive things such as Scouts on fire and forcing them to retreat.
But obviously valve's new stance that pyros should either W+M1 or Airblast 100% of the time means such a feature shall never return.
JaredSol 1 year ago
wait, they have revolver buff??????? Revolver never kill pyro or let him with 1hp with 3 shots... But still, even old revolver is better than flamethrower, first of all, you can be away from flames
MaxRideWizardLord 1 year ago
LOL COUNTERING WITH A S OR D XD!!!
Supafweak 1 year ago 3
I agree.
Manslaughterer 1 year ago
I agree, but... you see, in the real game, the Shotgun wouldn't hit all of the time as well, especially with more unskilled players.
Minnakht23 1 year ago
Wow... Really nice video; it was very informative and, personally, I thought it was interesting.
killersoldier38 1 year ago
If they want to turn the pyro into a support class (protect engies and buildings, flush out spies, hide from anyone with a gun) then Valve has the right idea. Otherwise, they should pay attention to this video!
When the class meant to be the king of CQB is out-damaged at point-blank by a non-backstabbing spy, something is very wrong.
entropy11 1 year ago
He slowly turns into the pyro of TFClassic... a useless lowdamagge class :l
Mephaistus 1 year ago
To be honest, this is all irrelevant. If you want damage, go Backburner. If you want to deflect shit and put teammates out, go Flamethrower. Pyro is still very potent, and if anything, I see even more pyros than ever doing just as good as before...
BaseOiboi 1 year ago
Valve hates the Pyro.
teufeldritch 1 year ago
ubad and should go back to spamming rockets.
BookenTheBlue 1 year ago
The pyro was ENJOYABLE before the update.
FunlilPivot 1 year ago
How do you get it to show the damage when you hit them?
Xlr012 1 year ago
@Xlr012
options > multiplayer tab > advanced
there's an option in there to turn on weapon damage above enemies' heads and a bunch of other cool options
afkhalis 1 year ago
I really hate it when people do this, get a clue people, dps doesn't matter jack shit in game. The flamethrower is very easy to hit people with so its dps generally stays the same but you can not consistently hit every shot with a pistol/shotgun/melee weapon. In a close range fight between me (as soldier with the shotty) and a pyro with the flame thrower, the pyro would most likely win because it's very difficult to hit shotgun shots dead, on every time.
yoda9931 1 year ago
@yoda9931 Learn to aim.
socialjunsu 1 year ago
@yoda9931 You should really play more pyro. Running up to flame a heavy in the back, only to have him spin up his gun, turn 180 degrees to look where the fire suddenly came from, and then mowing you down is a bit annoying. This has happened with other classes as well.
Also, at the ranges the flamethrower is effective, it is not hard to get your rounds on target. At the ranges you begin to miss, the flamethrower is no longer effective. Don't forget, the FT suffers from lag where others don't.
palehorse864 1 year ago
@yoda9931 I 100% agree. Even though what he's showing is a damage comparison, I don't believe anyone and everyone will be using an aimbot 100% of the time, making the flamethrower completely useless. This is a technique change, between the 2 flamethrower choices, and only means that there is more of a choice between airblast or not. If you want ambush, pick the backburner, if you want defense, then pick airblast.
freaktard131 1 year ago
This. THIS SO MUCH.
Saiko47 1 year ago
Pre-Pyro Update: Flamethrower is the worst weapon in the game, Pyros must rely on shotgun for kills
Pyro Update: Flamethrower becomes overpowered, "W+M1 NOOB WAAAAH", and is then quickly nerfed. W+M1 whining continues.
Now: Flamethrower is the worst weapon in the game, Pyros must rely on shotgun for kills
Personally I have never had trouble killing W+M1 pyros in any one on one fight, and don't understand why Valve has giving in to the demands of terrible players.
Furmanjosh 1 year ago 3
@Furmanjosh Indeed. Pyros used to be a terror. You see one coming and you instantly know, "OH CRAP FIRE FIRE FIRE!"
Now it's Oh look a Pyro. Oh look. A dead pyro.
Saiko47 1 year ago
@Saiko47 How did you quote my ingame sayings?
lambam12345 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Furmanjosh
"...don't understand why Valve has giving in to the demands of terrible players."
Because they are bunch of stupid motherfuckers is why.
teufeldritch 1 year ago
@Furmanjosh It's because they thought it was right. Robin was tricked into beliving this because he only fights experienced pyros and he was mislead by the newbies who claimed to be experts.
lambam12345 1 year ago
The flamethrower has always had these kinds of problems. When you're going up against any burst weapon, like a shotgun or rocket launcher, the enemy gets to frontload a huge chunk of damage which can often leave you half-dead before you've done any real damage at all to your enemy. The flamethrower at least used to have decent over-time DPS to compensate for this, but Valve in their infinite wisdom decided the flamethrower should have crummy DPS in addition to bad range and lack of burst damage.
2000sDigitalBoy 1 year ago
Ok but in normal play people are mobile and it is EVER SO EASY to hit them with the flame thrower as it requires little aim and has extended hit boxes. The pyro also has good health and good mobility.
Helpertin 1 year ago
Increase damage by 15% backburner by 25%-
Airblast Ammo usage = 50
SuperEgo1989 1 year ago
The thing about using the shotgun instead of flamethrower is that you won't always hit the enemy, as the flamethrower has a much larger spread.
CCNezin1 1 year ago
They buffed the pyro against 2 classes, arguably, and nerfed him against the rest.
Horrible update
Kumarenz 1 year ago
Your arguments make sense if you're trying to convert the pyro into a play-all class that is well balanced in its playstyle. According to the way you want the game - I think scout should get more HP and maybe an explosive weapon. Heavy could use a speed boost and the medic needs double jump.
pauleanonymous 1 year ago
@pauleanonymous Wow, did you even listen to anything he said? He didn't want the pyro to be a play-all class, he saying the pyro was never the master of close combat and giving him the damage buff will solve the problem.
socialjunsu 1 year ago
1) It's an ambush class
2) Yes it has relatively low DPS, but it's spray and pray - there is a HUGE difference between wildly winging your mouse around in the face of the enemy and hitting them DIRECT with full shotgun blasts.
pauleanonymous 1 year ago
They should give him his old "just-barely-slower-than-Medic" speed, that'd probably balance it back out.
GibboSpazz 1 year ago
finally,something serious,now the pyros got a good reason for get a buff (i want back the old afterburn)
leoelfox 1 year ago
This guy's reasoning is a bit flawed, true, but as a pyro, the damage/ammo management (or lack of, I guess)/less requirement of aiming does not even come close for the ability to pick away at people from out of flamethrower range.
Up close the pyro will probably beat most classes, but if they have a chance to get out of close or flamethrower range, the pyro's got no chance. The only long range weapon they have is the flare gun, which is a whole different issue that needs to be addressed.
GoombaPA 1 year ago
I don't disagree with you on your overall point, but your axetinguisher demonstration is a bit flawed. You only show it off against a single 125 health class. Yeah, if you are facing a 125 health class, it isn't going to do you any good. However if you are facing a higher health class, like a soldier or a heavy, particularly if they are overhealed, the axetinguisher will come out way on top of sitting there and trying to flame them down.
Esgaro 1 year ago
@Esgaro But this will only come in handy if the enemy doesn't notice you at first, since a Soldier or Heavy would gun you down well before you could kill them. The likely reason for them not seeing you would be because their back is turned, in which case the Backburner would proooobably still outperform the combo.
MarsPhoenix63 1 year ago
1) Flamethrower requires lower skill investment than the other guns. You're acting like it's natural for another enemy with a shotgun to connect every pellet of every shot. But if they can pull that off, don't they deserve to win? It's much more skill than keeping a field of particles over the enemy.
2) You treat air blast like it's only for reflections, but good pyros use it to incapacitate enemies (and especially use it to help guarantee Axtinguisher hits.)
vapidkunst 1 year ago
Further, if you just ramp up damage, the skill investment stays the same, so Flamethrower remains a low-skill weapon but it gets lots of freak-accident kills at point blank -- the same problem that the Direct Hit has.
vapidkunst 1 year ago
To be honest, I believe they should buff the afterburn damage, but have it burn longer. (i.e. 60 damage over 15 seconds) This allows the person ignited more time to heal, while it's still a reasonable amount of damage for the Pyro.
RoxasGamerKid93 1 year ago
I was discussing the Pyro changes with a friend, and we had the idea that all current changes could be kept, but to make up for it, fire damage would last forever until extinguished by water, health packs/locker, Medic/Dispenser healing, or the compression blast. Probably not a good change, but an interesting one to be sure.
fortyblinks 1 year ago
@fortyblinks this one is the best suggestion I've heard so far, it keeps the pyro in his place as an ambusher and mobile unit and punishes his wm1 (since he'll still be out dps'd and killed if he hangs around), and then makes the other team rely more on teamwork. Which would be nice since it's pretty much lonewolf demo/soldier fortress lately.
pumpkinether 1 year ago
hahahaha they really fucked up this update
Makron5 1 year ago
What are your ding-a-ling settings, and what sound to you use?
Very informative video, thanks!
Arkayer 1 year ago
this guy is retarded, learn how to aim!!!
9ve 1 year ago
You make it sound like the heavy needed his buff. He didn't.
Also it's sad. People think the Pyro is awful now, but those are probably just the folks who stick to the stereotype of W+M1.
roflguy 1 year ago
@roflguy
He is. It has something to do with his primary weapon do inferior damage. And no, poofing isn't all sex. Go poof stickies or bullets.
BlackSephir 1 year ago
@BlackSephir When did I say anything about poofing? It's also like the guy who made the vid didn't know how to strafe and hold mouse1.
roflguy 1 year ago
SCIENCE!!!
Dalenbourg 1 year ago
90%v of arguements are void in this video. You dont stand still and fire, you move around airblast and use a combination of weapons, I still pwn hard with pyro.
xogBFishY 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
cry some more
LordMordac 1 year ago
nice.
MarkQP 1 year ago
you didnt took in consideration that the a strafing pyro is way harder to kill while the flamethrower has a WIDER range of attack.
mico027 1 year ago
Great video. Wtf were thinkking when they made the flames weaker
dark0ssx 1 year ago 3
@dark0ssx
They weren't thinking. That's the problem.
teufeldritch 1 year ago
amen
OneManMilitia69 1 year ago
Why pyro why do valve hate you so much :C
TheVooDooTaco 1 year ago 2
Cool like to see more
madsser 1 year ago
then wait behind a corner and circle them wile u flame. harder to shoot a moving pyro :3
not to mention the fact that idk how many times ive died from afterburn from a pyro.
and if long range is such an issue then dont go out in the open and start using the flare gun.
TheBobIsComing 1 year ago
@TheBobIsComing from after burn? the bloody thing does a lot less damage than before how you can die from it?
misanthropiclusion 1 year ago
@TheBobIsComing Die... from the afterburn... after THIS update? You've gotta be kidding me. Since the update, I can't count the number of times the reduced time has SAVED my ass. Reducing the afterburn was an absolutely terrible idea, stacked on the bad idea of reducing his damage output. I'm a spy and even I'm vouching for Pyros...
HITMANSPIKE007 1 year ago
why don't you just use the backburner then? I don't see the problem.
tcriminal 1 year ago
pyro's flamethrower should be the new secondary.
mitchag191 1 year ago
Its just.. sad.. really. The King of Close Quarters is dead.
See05239 1 year ago 3
Thanks for doing this video, other classes, heavy specifically, were starting to piss me off claiming they had skill when they turned around and killed a pyro.
I'm sure it will be awhile before Valve does anything about it.
99008761 1 year ago
Protip:Dont play pyro.
Goth47 1 year ago
Honestly I thought the Pyro was fine before the nerf. Fire damage always was, as demonstrated by you with the backburner, roughly equivalent to the shotgun, but the flame thrower had the advantage of being easier to aim and attacking multiple enemies and causing after burn damage. Now the flames are so weak you can barely kill anything with it.
SupaGoGoMan 1 year ago