ABC Mart MSL Bisu vs Flash 2011-04-21 @ Dante's Peak SE

[Cokain3]

hahahha the girls 23:26 xD! lol

[bepofazo]

SHIT!!! FUCK JAPAN/ CHINA!!

[megayoyo6969]

bisus the sexiest

[zervver]

Flash has the face of a junky.

[DeadbeatXT]

It's like Bisu was specifically saving the tanks and only killing the vultures.

[TheMongolHordes]

lol bisu still shit pvt. The only reason he wins is because players cant prepare for him specifically in proleague.

[FakeDicck]

This game is still 10x better than sc2. coming from a sc2 player

[gleyof]

@okay21088 Also, if you watch really good matches on balanced maps, you'll notice that the loser could have won if hadn't miss a couple of things: a storm , swarm or emp, etc.The point being, it's the players not the race. It just happened that most of the"Godlike" players of their eras chose to play terran. The current OSL RO8 is a good testament to this. Most of the maps are zerg-favored, so most are zerg players. Even with the maps, flash is still in there. So yeah, the player, not the race.

[gleyof]

@okay21088 That's quite arguable. I think that the upper echelon of players (talking about skills) like Boxer, OOV, Flash (given their respective eras) chose to play terran. If Flash started out with toss/zerg, he would still own (high probability). The same thing with OOV and Boxer. These guys won championships because they brought something new with them: Crazy strats and micro for boxer, macro oriented terran play for OOV, flash double armory build and yeah he perfected turtling lol

[chltmdwp]

does anyone know who is #1 in korea right now? sucks taht flash isn't #1..

[minhbeo]

@chltmdwp God Young HO

[sprite5289]

omg... now it's 5-0 for Terrans on this map... this is f***ing imbalanced!

[minhbeo]

@audioflush Bisu's apm is just about 280-300, he usually peaked above 450 though

[sata600]

♥사 랑 해 // 蔡依林

¤º`°º¤ø~錄] Glorious Days [體~°º¤ø¸,ø¤°

»•*○º •. •* [連] _ NoRiA _ [語] *• . •º○ *•«

[BlackYoshi2]

Bisu is very handsome!

[mbbs5000]

LOVE it when flash knocks bisu out of the osl all bisu's fans claim how imba tvp is despite protoss being statistically ahead in the matchup (and even then it's t>z>p>t). it's not terran, it's flash.

[whooshx2]

I LOVE THIS MAP, SO EASY FOR TVP LOL! the 3rd expansion has the gas and it's easy defend

[utarian7]

vultures are so OP its stupid...

[luckduck32167]

my gosh bisu sucks vs flash

flash > bisu

[augustmaple]

The difference between people claiming that zerg was overpowered during savior's reign and people claiming that terran was overpowered during iloveoov and nada's reigns is that savior's play syle has been crushed by bisu, while sk terran and fake 2 fac still remain viable in the proleague. And i do think that terran is imba, but not in sc2.

[Italo56194]

game star 1:00

[eumaKn]

guys,

FvP, nuff said; stop fighting over who is more balanced or not please?

갓영호 인대 뭐가 그렇게 신기해 ㅋㅋ

[darkabalah]

well as i see it, terran can offer a greater variety of plays, because of the variety of tools at hand and unit costs, every terran unit can create a bigger difference by staying alive longer, off course this is only possible by insane micro control, so yeah flash is the best terran player ever because of the skill he has to manage every aspect of the game, but in this sense, the potential of terran is a bit larger than the other 2 races, but off course you need a terran genius to execute it.

[GTPeNTer]

Flash is IMBA Progamer

[anservino2]

Awesome game!

[SvennemanZZZ]

wow I thought there was only whining about balance in sc2, but I guess there will always be people whining about balance, even when its balanced^^

[wasdwasdedsf]

whats balanced

[Unitra90]

is not gg, if continous bisu won

[SorryRush]

OUTSTANDING GAME

[xxbluejay21]

lol I remember all the retards saying zerg was overpowered during jaedong's reign, and protoss was overpowered during bisu's reign. Retards will always be retards. And some of the people here are fucking retards.

[xxbluejay21]

YEAH FLASHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[tamasflamich]

another won pvt thrown by bisu's awful decision making

[taeksinyumwon]

bisu did well... ftw

[drez13]

@RrefForm commentators may have that opinion but honestly I know how much time 8 or so dragoons would have bought him.

[NiceJesus]

awesome game

[ExecutiveDmitri]

For all T players out there that claim that PvT is balanced. I dare you to play protoss against an expirienced terran.

I'll like to see you talk after you felt the pain of losing half of your army to shity cheap mines, then the remainder to tanks splash damage.

And after T entire undamaged army is siegeing up in ur main; while u r gathering reinforcements - i dare you to try to win the game.

My AvgAPM is 160 (P player); its sweat n blood to beat T with 80-90 apm who uses mines.

[NUMUESTIKK]

@ExecutiveDmitri rofl it like the most common knowledge that T requires the most APM and thus foreigners struggle with it the most. P DOMINATES the non-korean-pro-scene as it requires the least APM.

[okay21088]

@NUMUESTIKK

yeah we all know Protoss is strongest at low levels and Terran the strongest at high levels. But who the fuck cares about low levels?

[mbbs5000]

@ExecutiveDmitri let me pvt you then. :) i will have fun 1a2a3a my army and somehow come out on top.

[okay21088]

@mbbs5000

He just needs to press I and O to siege + mine and turtle. Your 1a2a3a army will melt. Unless you micro arbiter to stasis, use HT to storm, flank, zealot micro-attach tanks, recall-abuse, and work 10x harder than Terran.

Terran 3-3 200/200 army so FAIR. Thank god Siege Tanks were rightfully changed to 3 supply like they should be in SC2.

[RoMMeL1337ak47]

@okay21088 if terran is that imbah in TvP why is it like this.

top 5 elo in TvP flash 2303 fantasy 2234 hiya 2112 bogus 2110 sea 2089

top 5 elo in PvT bisu 2206 stork 2204 snow 2183 best 2149 free 2134

sure flash and to some degree fantasy is way above the toss. but look att the gap. if TvP was that easy we would see allot more high rated TvPers not just 2! ofc you need micro if your gona brake a tank line, but terran micro is allso VERY hard, and if your army dies your dead.

[okay21088]

@RoMMeL1337ak47

I didn't say Terran was imba in TvP. I said Terran was imba overall because:

They get 1 advantageous matchup (TvZ) and no disadvantage matchup compared to

Zerg who get 1 disadvantageous matchup (ZvT) and 1 advantageous matchup (ZvP)

Protoss 1 disadvantageous matchup (PvZ) and 1 equal matchup (TvP)

I think TvP is generally balanced, except P gets favored at noob-level play while T gets favored at S-class Progamer level. This is why ELO is much higher for Flash/Fantasy

[madoo87]

@okay21088 LOL this guy left a hate msg in my channel. People stop arguing with this 12 year old ethug. LOL lets just stop...

[wasdwasdedsf]

show me where its equal, whore

[RoMMeL1337ak47]

@okay21088 "T gets favored at S-class Progamer level" i still would hafto dissagree. flash is a monster in tvp and that is why he is winning. 2 of the best TvPers are kinda slumping (best and jangbi) and stork is also known for his good pvt but his elo took a big beting after last osl final... flash is the best at the matchup but it aint such a big diffrense that i would say T is favord at S-class. maps are a way bigger factor.

[gnsexe]

@ExecutiveDmitri

thats because you probably aren't even c-

[ppshchik]

@ExecutiveDmitri My advice:

1. Pick Protoss

2. Host a game called "1v1 Medusa T only"

3. Go 10/15

4. Profit.

[ExecutiveDmitri]

@ppshchik Thx for advice. I'll defo try it.

I moved on to figure out that maps have a huge impact on winning rate. Mostly I was playing python and LT - statisitcally TvP heaven - if P doesn't have good micro and shuttle play.

Moved on to Aztec now - can u smell... what Dimi... is cooking... o da! ^^

[okay21088]

@ppshchik

1. Pick Terran

2. Lay down Free Mines, Defend, Push at 200/200

3 ?

4. Win

[Strand0410]

@okay21088 Wow. A dozen years and hundreds of progamers just proved that statement as bullshit.

[eumaKn]

@okay21088 LOl go try this on iccup and post a replay i'd love to see you try such an easy strategy;

[utarian7]

@ExecutiveDmitri are you using anything more than zeolots and dragoons? are you getting observer sight and/or speed upgrade? are you early game roaming the map with goons and ob to sweep those mines, or turtling in your base? I'm a P player, I believe the better player wins, not the race....

[ExecutiveDmitri]

@utarian7 I improved from D- to D+ since I posted that PvT imba comment. Now I start to think that TvP is a bit imba, cause toss have such an easy map control + macro.... funny how it works! => (P 4 Life) ^^

[utarian7]

@ExecutiveDmitri Would you like to say what you changed specifically in order to improve? Cheers, curious. 

[ExecutiveDmitri]

@utarian7 Improved 1) Micro via PVZ UMS map; 2) APM via PvT HotKeyTrainer (had to customize it - since I could do it with 160 apm - now has to be over 210 to win)

Tactic wise: don't attack Terran; just let him sit there, while I control the map and take expos. By the time he gets to 3-3/200 , I have like 20+ gates, 3-3-3; + at least 2 expos more than he does - basically out macro him.

Unitwise: added Shuttles + Templas to my arsenal. (goons, lots, obs, dt's; ht, shuttles)

[ExecutiveDmitri]

@ExecutiveDmitri micro PVZ = PZT UMS map

[ExecutiveDmitri]

@ExecutiveDmitri OH last thing... I don't play maps that have Lower than 50% PvT rating, e.g. python, LT, etc.

These are P graveyards I believe. GL HF

P 4 Life!

[limbo9653]

:] YES YES YES YESY ESYES YESY ES!@

[Jonas223XC]

6 base protoss vs 3 base terran. Terran wins easily. Cool

[jpsk82191]

@Jonas223XC 4 base protoss maybe 5 cause he was building his 6th when flash move out and 1 of the bases was harrased a lot with vultures

[vicioso82]

Awesome game, the games betwen these two players are always epics.......

[drez13]

@RrefForm erm no I'm pretty sure that one bad outcome is not what lost the game for Bisu. Flash was ahead on macro for whole game, had solid defenses, and successful harassment throughout. I'm pretty sure thats what won the game not 18.40 battle...

[Ghost2867]

@RrefForm Nope. Bisu gave Flash the advantage when he delayed his fourth Nexus for so long. He gave Flash the win when he kept letting vultures pick off workers. Bisu was never really on three/four bases late in the early game and early in the mid game. Flash just kept chugging along without any contest and was able to push out with his 3-2 timing in perfect comfort. Those two early mistakes by Bisu are what gave away the game.

[gamapg]

HOW THE HELL DOES FLASH MACRO THAT MUCH SHIT...???

[TheRamstoss]

define: perfection.

[chonny1987]

Terran map. 

[PraetorHyper]

Flash is imba. Not T

[mbbs5000]

just ignore okay21088, he trolls every video saying how imba T is. would appreciate if nevake blocked him from commenting.

[xnyczsjk]

i hope JD and Flash destroy hydra and great. fuck them bubble champions.

[monkeymoo87]

noooo haha im a bisu fan at heart

[Cranefly]

The only way it's not a huge upset for either of these two players to get knocked out in the MSL ro32 is if the same group also features the dong.

[qkddnjswns]

it was such a decoy for 6 o'clock base!! all dragoons went down for the cc, but Flash instantly moved it over the sea and destroyed all the ragoons! well done flash :)

[Urza26]

@qkddnjswns I often wondered about that thing sometimes... Isn't it possible to do a defensive recall?

[Slektet]

Spoiler

A sad day for SKT, both Fantasy and Bisu out :(

[gamapg]

@Slektet DONT WORRY BRO WE STILL HAVE HYUK... HE"S GOT THIS

[lKamilia]

fuyking terran is imbalanced against toss. its wayyyy too hard to block the 3-3 wave. they need to repatch this shyt.

[EziixPked]

@lKamilia LOL you fucking noob learn sc

[lKamilia]

@EziixPked 1on1? meet me anytime. 

[lKamilia]

@EziixPked wow, someone is really mad. You must be a life failure who are not open to other people's opinions. Im not the only one who thinks Terran 3-3 is imba. and i can be totally wrong, because its coming from a protoss player. And if u are not gonna play me 1on1, why talk shyt? ppl like u who are afraid to play stronger players have no improvements. not only in sc, but also in life. and like i said, i really dont give a shyt about u. Im open to learn, ur not.

[Dydansky]

@lKamilia Uhh, don't know how much you know about BW, but historically P has always been stronger T. Typically goes P>T>Z>P

[okay21088]

@Dydansky

except P = T as high levels of progaming. Which makes T have 1 advantageous matchup(TvZ) and no disadvantageous matchup, while Zerg or Protoss each have 1 disadvantageous matchups

And T has been the most successful race of BW while P has been the least successful

[gamapg]

@okay21088 Bisu walks over your comment with a 70% win vZ... statistical deviation i guess

[lKamilia]

@Dydansky ye sc changes all the time. Terran has developed to the max. Terran > all races.

[Destruction3402]

@lKamilia This is Flash.. not just a random terran.

[madoo87]

@lKamilia top 15 kespa ranking: 6 zerg, 5 protoss, 4 terran.... wtf u talking about???? sc1 is the most balacanced game that u can possible find. the imbalance comes from maps.... plz learn to think

[okay21088]

@madoo87

except Terrans has had the most bonjwas, the most number of OSL/MSL titles, the statistically highest win rate (out of ALL pro games played), the most dominance overall.

SC1 is balanced, but its not perfectly balanced, especially at S-class level where players like Flash can utilize all the multi-tasking benefits T race can offer. That is why most Protoss pros have under 300 APM usually (except Bisu) because you dont that much APM for toss (which = good for beginners, bad for pros)

[madoo87]

@okay21088 not true. most wins may go to a couple of terran players but thats it. there isnt anyone who can do the same as a terran player which tells that flash/boxer are great players in general, and not because they play terran. there are actually more s class protoss players for last 10 years to stupidly say that terran is imba. you can EASILY change maps such that protoss have higher winning percentage by up to 30% which means its the maps that bring unbalance, not the game.

[4vvhiplazh7]

@madoo87 Totally agree... Thats why Kespa have just released a whole new set of maps that have fixed the imbalances in some like Aztec for example (which was a graveyard for T in PvT)

[okay21088]

@madoo87

Did you just claim there are more s-class Protoss players than s-class Terran players for the last 10 years? LOL

Protoss and Zerg players know Terran race is too good.

Terran players always blame the maps instead.

You say blame the maps, but I say blame the race that can adjust to a map easier than other races. Terrans benefit from: ramps, closed narrow spaces, easily protectable 3rd expo, cliff over expo (tanks), 2 player maps, etc.

[madoo87]

@okay21088 Did you just say adjust races for balance on continuously changing maps instead of adjusting maps to balance the races? you are seriously mistaken. Think for 2 minutes and you will realize how seriously wrong you are. and yes there are more s-class protoss players than there are for terran players. thats a fact.

[okay21088]

@madoo87

Think about what u just said. You want to continuously change maps that remains to be T-favored most of the time instead of changing race advantages that gain greater advantage in maps? By trying to change balance through maps (that end up T-favored most of time), you're fighting an uphill battle that never ends. Just nerf T a little bit ONCE, and maps become much more balanced

You are seriously delusional or a troll if you think there are more s-class P players than T players. LOL

[xxbluejay21]

@okay21088 save all that balance bullshit for starcraft 2. Brood war is pretty much extremely well balanced. And if you didn't know, Protoss has a slight advantage over terran in the PvT matchup, so I don't even know why the hell you're bringin up balance here.

[Brandonduboff]

@okay21088 you clearly haven't looked at the statistics. There is a paper thin line between the races.. type in to google: starcraft broodwar race statics pro. the 4th link by SK shows the statistics from 2008-2009. its all within 48 percent to 53 percent. Also it shows T>Z>P>T, but thats ok. Everyone knows people who claim one race is more powerful than another are just whining about an imbalance because they don.t understand the game yet. There is no better race at S class.

[Harbinger1942]

@okay21088 Nah, that's absolute bollocks that. Complete nonsense

[Strand0410]

@okay21088 You don't take into account the fact that success in a certain race means there are subsequent generations of players who become progamers in that race, because of that influence. If there was no Boxer, I doubt there would be a Flash down the line. Bisu was on the cusp of becoming the first P bonjwa but Flash was just the better player in the end.

[eppa1111]

@okay21088 BW is still getting balanced through maps. Flash is not dominating through race but by being a better player in general.

[LucaTurilli89]

@okay21088 Terran is not balanced. SCV rush possibilities in small maps = win :) because of 60 hp. Vultures beat the shit out of probes in two hits yet the shield type of probes is small not big to take full damage but only half!

[lKamilia]

@madoo87 i love sc. bw is the most balanced game ever. ur very right. imba comes from maps. but i always feel terran mechanic is 1-2% overpowered.

[lKamilia]

@madoo87 was there ever a protoss winner recently? no, protoss does not have any room to develop. terran and zerg is always developing.

[Mashiki]

@lKamilia Successful troll is successful. I can't believe people couldn't tell this guy was trolling when he said that a game over a decade old needs to be patched...

[lKamilia]

@Mashiki development of the terran race has simply been amazing. Flash is probably the best player of all time. He made trolling possible, and 3-3 mechanic with all ranged units.... fuyk its imba.

[sumoslam1]

@lKamilia hahaha lol

[EnsignN7]

@lKamilia You go to FlaSh and beg for forgiveness right now.

[lKamilia]

@EnsignN7 Y should i ask for forgiveness? im just expression my opinion. im simply bisu fan. isnt it obvious for a fan to get upset if their favourite player loses?

[EziixPked]

@lKamilia If you think 3-3 wave is imba then you need to go practice against comps before u try to 1v1 scrub. Listen to every single other person replying to you instead of acting like a know-it-all conceited doucebag. Blocked faggot

[makeone88]

NOOOOO !!!!!! :(!!!!

[JohnnyDeschenes]

Does anybody know the song @ 0:48?

[makeone88]

what map is this??? O_o

[okay21088]

terran fucking imba vs protoss as well. GG

[bluesmurf1313]

@okay21088 QQ more yo

[caiiss]

@okay21088 nah flash is imba vs toss not terran

[dk9999]

Fucking tense game!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jamchew1982]

having to play flash 2x? that sucks

[dskimchen]

23:25 Tossgirl vs 2 Chobos, GG!

[fishsticks0808]

@dskimchen more like iloveoov vs 2 noobs

[xunap]

@dskimchen

LOL

p.s: bisu sux vs t

[gnsexe]

@dskimchen lol ? thats not tossgirl

[whooshx2]

LOL AT THE GIRLS FIGHTING FOR THE SHIRT

[mikemmx]

@whooshx2 I will punch that girl in the face for that shirt and be proud of it. I'm a man.

[hammburger83]

Woohoo go flash!