Total War: Shogun 2- A Fistful of Koku (2v2 Siege)

[Comanglia]

@fishsandwichpatrol this is precisely why I never matchmake siege battles, my friend and I always setup a server and do 2v2 on large funds.

[Spamjabber]

You guys did really well to win this one, however your enemies made some bad decisions. Great little micro with your generals and matchlocks though

[fishsandwichpatrol]

@Spamjabber Yeah sadly defending sieges on low fund battles comes down to how terrible the attackers are. If these guys were more experienced I don't think we would have had a chance.

[Dorphin01]

the batles are prettty balanced if you play vs a general of your star level trought the random enemy stuff cuz you will fight having less money and your general will eat a big chunk out of your funds too so if you would show one where u go 2v2 with generals of around the same lvl you will see that it's got some decent balance

[Simpig25]

I try and have 2 attackers versus 3 defenders in siege battles on medium funds, usually it's relatively even depending on player skill and teamwork.

[bernhaland]

u can actualy see how fast units capture buildings,

they have these little flags, your flag will move down, then their flag will move up, it's the same for land battle buildings.

[foooolishfool]

I feel like the bigger problem here is the whole super-high-level vs. super-low-level thing. If both of you are above about level 5 sieges seem to be weighted more in the other direction - in 10k and 14k battles defence seems to win 9 out of 10 times (the only attacking success I remember having recently is a game where I was attacking and the defender made some terrible mistakes combined with not bringing any melee support at all - matchlock ashigaru are just that good in 10k+ defence).

[fishsandwichpatrol]

@foooolishfool You might be right. I haven't done a ton of sieges so I'm not exactly an expert.

[foooolishfool]

@fishsandwichpatrol Sieges can be pretty fun and a decent change of pace occasionally, as long as you get a variety of attack/def and don't get stuck in small battles (though you could say that about all of Shogun 2 multiplayer...). They tend to be pretty slow though unfortunately, especially at the start of games that end up being close. At least they are better than Naval battles!

random aside: have you ever used (or had an interesting battle against) Kisho Ninja?

[fishsandwichpatrol]

@foooolishfool Every time I've seen them used they failed miserably. I think I'd only bring them in siege attacks, where they could sneak up a back wall and do some damage.

[Acaios]

@foooolishfool a good army composition is essential to win sieges. The essential is to find a good balance between bows and matchlock (with the main purpose to route enemy troops) and melee units, with support role (for instance to stop and enemy troops while your archers do the rest).

[fishsandwichpatrol]

@Acaios Indeed, but it's hard to have a balanced army with only 700 koku :)

[Acaios]

@fishsandwichpatrol y, you are totally right. That's why i think siege should be reworked: founds should depend on castles and also general lvl. Wooden castles are quite impossible to defend with 700 koku, while stone castles are quite easier due to much more powerful towers. IMO actually defenders can only win if attachers commit some errors (just like in this video: if attachers picked even a single siege weapon and arranged a coordinated attack, defenders could not win)

[fishsandwichpatrol]

@Acaios I agree. It's impossible for the defenders to win on low koku battles unless they get lucky and have terrible opponents (like we did here, they were both rank 2).

[spicykorean]

hi fish, I'm enjoying your videos. I learned a tip the other day about defending sieges. When troops are in the highest tier of the fortress where the tenshu is, they will fight to the death and will not break or shatter. So you could have gotten matchlock ashis and perhaps squeezed in another ashi unit like loanswords to help defend.

[fishsandwichpatrol]

@spicykorean They will only fight to the death if they're right next to the tenshu. My matchlock samurai stepped just out of range and shattered while being in the highest tier. I only had 700 koku so I could only bring only one unit unless I brought 2 yari ashigaru and, well...

[spicykorean]

@fishsandwichpatrol Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Regardless, that siege defense was very well played!

[fishsandwichpatrol]

Yeah, if they weren't level 2 and had no idea what they were doing we would have lost. That's the only time we win defensive sieges. There's just no way the bonuses defenders get come close to justifying how little money you get. You basically have to not only play extremely well but get very lucky.

[Thatownageguy1]

with sieges if you are a high level like 8-10 you general takes up most of army funds and even more if your are Vsing a low level 1-4. so if you are a high level defending in a siege it is pretty silly so you have to versus high level opponents

[CoreReaver]

actually my friend and I almost always win on the defence, we don't quite have that little troops though, usually we manage to get one or two more units. We also managed to beat a bow spammer.

But I do agree that siege is in favour of the attacker... however I do sometimes prefer to do siege when your fed up of cav and monk spammers.

[fishsandwichpatrol]

@CoreReaver What rank are you? When you're rank 10 your general costs 1800 koku.

[CoreReaver]

@fishsandwichpatrol I'm currently rank 8 so yeah... I figured it would be somewhere near 2000 koku when you reach level 10 so thanks for letting me know... I have to say shogun 2 has been one of my most frustrating online experiences yet I cannot stop playing it hehe..

[ShinigamiAnger]

Very nice, grats to both you and your friend. Something i definitely can't do with my leadership general :\

[GrandChamp1989]

Wow, this is just BROKEN!

2 units and 2 general vs 2 armies??

There's no way you guys would have any chance with a leadership or bow general.

[NaCk210]

Also, regarding the whole monk spam thing, I agree it's getting ridiculous by now since there's no limit to spamming apparently. It'd be cool if there was like a "pool" system kinda similar to the way veterans are handled. Ashigaru would have basically a unlimited pool, samurai would have a large pool and monks would have a small pool. So, first of all you wouldn't be able to use all-monks armies, and if you did you would be forced to use something else next match since the pool would be empty.

[NaCk210]

Damn, that was some serious micromanagement job there. But either way, it's ridiculous how siege battles are usually impossible to win as a defender. One would think having to rush into a castle would be a huge disadvantage for the attacker, but apparently it's not like that in Shogun 2 since even with equal troops the attacker wins most of the time.

Anyway, congratulations, even against all odds you guys made it!

[Cephyrr]

Wow, that seems just a touch unbalanced. 2 units each? Holy crap.