Juive seemed cursed in old days. Caruso's last opera was Juive and Tucker who sang it in performance in Spain in Dec./74 --died only weeks later , Jan. 8,1975. He also sang it in New Orleans in Oct./ 73 and in March / 73 in Concert performance in London with success. Shicoff sang it in Europe and at the Met. in 03' and is still alive and healthy! Otello was a voice wrecker for many.
@TwistingWays Pav. never sang some early Verdi but did sing Forza in Italy, perhaps two performances but he cracked once and said he would not sing it again. He sang the Otello's in Chicago and NY in Concert version mainly because Solti in Chicago insisted he sing it, but it was not well received as he sang it seated in a chair with his leg problems by that time and he was not an Otello voice nor was Jussi B. but he recorded the duet with Merrill very well, that's a recording though.
@TwistingWays CONTINUED FROM BELOW--Pav sang Otello in Chicago and I heard it,his voice was still fine below the very top, it was not a role of course for a basic lyric tenor, he sang it alright but the press flamed him because he didn't have an Otello Dramatic or Spinto voice and at the time he was not well and sang it seated. Kraus sang Boheme once but not again with his lighter voice, that was a great role for Pav and I heard him do it in 74' Kraus could have recorded it in Studio very well
I heard both Pav. and Kraus In House and both many times. Kraus may have had a smaller voice (though Pav did not really have a big voice either) but Kraus could easily be heard anywhere in the house, it projected and had point also without being a big voice. I did prefer Kraus in some of the same roles over Pav.on stage. Kraus never sang this role on stage anyhow and I agree it was not a best role for the lyric voice of Pav. but Pav. did it , also Otello and Chenier later, why who knows.
@SHICOFF1 I believe it was a goal of Pavarotti's to perform in every Verdi opera, or at least record it. The only one he did not perform because many believe it to be cursed was "La forza del destino".
Kraus has peerless technique, but is sund is just far too light for Il Trovatore. I can understand why he sang it in a way, because he had such a flexible upper register, but it needs far more weight. Someone like Corelli had the correct coloration.
I saw Kraus live in Hoffman and his voice wasn't that big through most of his range, but he would hit these high notes and open up that voice and fill the house with a thrilling sound!!!!
Absurdité que cet excellent belcantiste se soit hasardé dans ce répertoire dont il n'avait en aucune manière les moyens , ce n'est heureusement que du disque .
I agree with many of the comments above. What is strange is that Kraus who is willinger to adopt the lesurely tempi of another epoque, rushes through this. If he taken his time this may have been more interesting - he has the notes after all....
Esto es para el gil q puso un video comparando a Kraus con Corelli cantando "La donna e mobile", con la intención de demostrar q Kraus la canta mejor. A esa persona le digo q escuche esto. Acá Kraus da lástima, pero no xq esté mal cantado, sino xq no es para su voz. Kraus = Bel Canto. Corelli = Verismo = Manrico.
Muy bien dicho, asi se habla, por eso mismo cantó nunca cantó ni incluyó esta aria y ópera en su respertorio, ya sabía él lo que se hacía. Viva kraus.
Bue, por fin alguien que entiende lo que se dice. Ese comentario no era una crítica destructiva hacia Kraus, sino diferenciar las cosas, cada uno a lo suyo. Saludos.
Mire, usted quizá no me conozca, pero le puedo asegurar que no hay nadie en youtube que más defienda la especialización de repertorio como yo, a mi personalmente me encanta kraus por muchas cosas, sería muy largo de contar, pero lo que Kraus hizo y contribuyó en la ópera, para mí, no lo hizo nadie. Si un médico no se especializa en traumatología, por ejemplo, no puede entender ni dar buenos resultados en la materia del eskeleto ni ser completamente competente, igual los tenores.
Comparto 100% lo que Ud. dice. Cada uno en su repertorio. Por eso no hay que escribir con mala intención comparando a Kraus con Corelli en "La donna e mobile". Como tampoco podría compararse en "Celeste Aida" o en esta aria. No obstante ello, debo reconocer que Kraus no es de los tenores que más me agradan, particularmente por su sonido latoso y nasal. Sin embargo, no dejo de reconocer su calidad de tenor. Saludos amigo.
Aqui hay una apreciación que hacer..... y no es la primera vez ni será la última que la hago..... Kraus no era nasal, es decir, no existía nasalidad en Kraus, lo que sí existía era una utilización muy aguda de los recursos sonoros de las cavidades craneales, lo que los italianos llaman canto in masquera, esta misma permita explotar los recursos naturales de la propia voz activando la caja armónica, el sonido no era nasal pues el nasal de verdad no se puede emitir.
that's why this is a studio recording. I don't think Kraus ever performed Il Travatore on stage. He was very selective in what he chose to perform. He told that people directing Tosca early in his career that it was too heavy for him but they forced him to do it. He tried La Boheme but by Act III it's just not his cup of tea. He does AWESOME in I Puritani and rocks Werther.
The problem is with tenors who think they can sing anything and everything. Recently, Alagna joined that group. I listening to his rendition of A te O Cara which was a painful experience. The problem wasn't that it was out of his fach. His singing was piss poor. I will mention Do(??)Mingo in passing, as well all know what he did! Cura's rendition of Il Trovatore was literally amateurish, for instance. I suppose you all get the idea. Don't confuse superb variations with poor choices.
It is not uncommon that tenors of utmost skill sung some roles out of their fach for various reasons (bigger pay, challenging themselves, boredom...you name it). IMO the idea is to sing well even if the timbre of the voice is not 100% suitable for the role. Some people here are commenting for the sake of commenting. I don't mind (in fact I enjoy) listening to Corelli in a lyric role and Pava in a spinto -they sing extremely and it's a joy to listen to variations. Try to make sense next time.
It is not uncommon that tenors of utmost skill sung some roles out of their fach for various reasons (bigger pay, challenging themselves, boredom...you name it). IMO the idea is to sing well even if the timbre of the voice is not 100% suitable for the role. Some people here are commenting for the sake of commenting. I don't mind (in fact I enjoy) listening to Corelli in a lyric role and Pava in a spinto -they sing extremely and it's a joy to listen to variations. Try to make sense next time.
While I think Kraus's voice is far too light and transparent for this role, it was lovely, lovely lovely to hear his bel canto technique ... so many of the spinto and dramatic tenors iterate this as "di quella pee-hee-hee-hee-ra," which makes me crazy.
No way Pavarotti was the ideal Manrico. He lacked vocal weight,his low notes were weak ,his voice wasn't big enough for the spinto repertoire. He wasn't wise at all for picking this role.
@tonyantony I realize I'm replying to a 3 year old post, but I 100% agree. I loved and still love Pavarotti's voice. But he did not have the weight to sing this role.
@jrichardsontenor Yeah... I mean... The temptation is that as a lighter voice, you have easy access to everything ("Oh, no problem, I can sing the aria in the original C major, unlike a lot of folks") but unfortunately the weight and size add something. That's why, like him or not, Corelli was so lucky, possessing both ease of range and weight and size (though even he sang it in B, most often).
I have seen the 1988 performance live and he did bring the house down. It was wonderfully sung. It was a superb rendition of a spinto role by a mature tenore lyrico. Which parts of "variations" is so difficult to comprehend.
I also agree completely. Pavarotti wasn't suited for Il Trovatore, and the same goes for Otello, and to a lesser extent, Andrea Chenier. And as good and popular as his recordings of Nessun Dorma are, he wasn't an ideal Calaf (Turandot) either.
Juive seemed cursed in old days. Caruso's last opera was Juive and Tucker who sang it in performance in Spain in Dec./74 --died only weeks later , Jan. 8,1975. He also sang it in New Orleans in Oct./ 73 and in March / 73 in Concert performance in London with success. Shicoff sang it in Europe and at the Met. in 03' and is still alive and healthy! Otello was a voice wrecker for many.
SHICOFF1 3 months ago
@TwistingWays Pav. never sang some early Verdi but did sing Forza in Italy, perhaps two performances but he cracked once and said he would not sing it again. He sang the Otello's in Chicago and NY in Concert version mainly because Solti in Chicago insisted he sing it, but it was not well received as he sang it seated in a chair with his leg problems by that time and he was not an Otello voice nor was Jussi B. but he recorded the duet with Merrill very well, that's a recording though.
SHICOFF1 3 months ago
@TwistingWays CONTINUED FROM BELOW--Pav sang Otello in Chicago and I heard it,his voice was still fine below the very top, it was not a role of course for a basic lyric tenor, he sang it alright but the press flamed him because he didn't have an Otello Dramatic or Spinto voice and at the time he was not well and sang it seated. Kraus sang Boheme once but not again with his lighter voice, that was a great role for Pav and I heard him do it in 74' Kraus could have recorded it in Studio very well
SHICOFF1 3 months ago
Comment removed
SHICOFF1 3 months ago
I heard both Pav. and Kraus In House and both many times. Kraus may have had a smaller voice (though Pav did not really have a big voice either) but Kraus could easily be heard anywhere in the house, it projected and had point also without being a big voice. I did prefer Kraus in some of the same roles over Pav.on stage. Kraus never sang this role on stage anyhow and I agree it was not a best role for the lyric voice of Pav. but Pav. did it , also Otello and Chenier later, why who knows.
SHICOFF1 5 months ago
@SHICOFF1 I believe it was a goal of Pavarotti's to perform in every Verdi opera, or at least record it. The only one he did not perform because many believe it to be cursed was "La forza del destino".
TwistingWays 3 months ago
A lesson of singing.
mark6230 11 months ago
Kraus has peerless technique, but is sund is just far too light for Il Trovatore. I can understand why he sang it in a way, because he had such a flexible upper register, but it needs far more weight. Someone like Corelli had the correct coloration.
jmiller05 1 year ago
P U
MrCafiero 2 years ago
wow so beautyful....bravo¡¡¡¡¡¡ ....kraus is a great tenor...
cochobamba 2 years ago 3
voce fuori repertorio .
bodiloto 2 years ago
@bodiloto come tanti altre tenore, ma kraus non cantava questo in scena, altre come Luciano cantavano. Scusa il mio italiano
tena2 2 years ago
Wow Alfredo Kraus does a great rendition. I beleive his voice to be as big as Corelli's just not as dark.
hibyeeee2 2 years ago
I saw Kraus live in Hoffman and his voice wasn't that big through most of his range, but he would hit these high notes and open up that voice and fill the house with a thrilling sound!!!!
StuEppy 1 year ago
@hibyeeee2 Kraus' voice as big as Corelli's? What?
90lysander 1 year ago 2
Absurdité que cet excellent belcantiste se soit hasardé dans ce répertoire dont il n'avait en aucune manière les moyens , ce n'est heureusement que du disque .
moiselechat 2 years ago
I agree with many of the comments above. What is strange is that Kraus who is willinger to adopt the lesurely tempi of another epoque, rushes through this. If he taken his time this may have been more interesting - he has the notes after all....
MrJackRance 2 years ago
Esto es para el gil q puso un video comparando a Kraus con Corelli cantando "La donna e mobile", con la intención de demostrar q Kraus la canta mejor. A esa persona le digo q escuche esto. Acá Kraus da lástima, pero no xq esté mal cantado, sino xq no es para su voz. Kraus = Bel Canto. Corelli = Verismo = Manrico.
youchowchow 2 years ago
Muy bien dicho, asi se habla, por eso mismo cantó nunca cantó ni incluyó esta aria y ópera en su respertorio, ya sabía él lo que se hacía. Viva kraus.
tena2 2 years ago
Bue, por fin alguien que entiende lo que se dice. Ese comentario no era una crítica destructiva hacia Kraus, sino diferenciar las cosas, cada uno a lo suyo. Saludos.
youchowchow 2 years ago
Mire, usted quizá no me conozca, pero le puedo asegurar que no hay nadie en youtube que más defienda la especialización de repertorio como yo, a mi personalmente me encanta kraus por muchas cosas, sería muy largo de contar, pero lo que Kraus hizo y contribuyó en la ópera, para mí, no lo hizo nadie. Si un médico no se especializa en traumatología, por ejemplo, no puede entender ni dar buenos resultados en la materia del eskeleto ni ser completamente competente, igual los tenores.
tena2 2 years ago
Comparto 100% lo que Ud. dice. Cada uno en su repertorio. Por eso no hay que escribir con mala intención comparando a Kraus con Corelli en "La donna e mobile". Como tampoco podría compararse en "Celeste Aida" o en esta aria. No obstante ello, debo reconocer que Kraus no es de los tenores que más me agradan, particularmente por su sonido latoso y nasal. Sin embargo, no dejo de reconocer su calidad de tenor. Saludos amigo.
youchowchow 2 years ago
Aqui hay una apreciación que hacer..... y no es la primera vez ni será la última que la hago..... Kraus no era nasal, es decir, no existía nasalidad en Kraus, lo que sí existía era una utilización muy aguda de los recursos sonoros de las cavidades craneales, lo que los italianos llaman canto in masquera, esta misma permita explotar los recursos naturales de la propia voz activando la caja armónica, el sonido no era nasal pues el nasal de verdad no se puede emitir.
tena2 2 years ago
that's why this is a studio recording. I don't think Kraus ever performed Il Travatore on stage. He was very selective in what he chose to perform. He told that people directing Tosca early in his career that it was too heavy for him but they forced him to do it. He tried La Boheme but by Act III it's just not his cup of tea. He does AWESOME in I Puritani and rocks Werther.
gdawg116 2 years ago 2
well said. Kraus never sung Il trovatore, never ever.
tena2 2 years ago
WAAAY too light for this piece. Corelli is the king of this role
raigekimaru 2 years ago
The problem is with tenors who think they can sing anything and everything. Recently, Alagna joined that group. I listening to his rendition of A te O Cara which was a painful experience. The problem wasn't that it was out of his fach. His singing was piss poor. I will mention Do(??)Mingo in passing, as well all know what he did! Cura's rendition of Il Trovatore was literally amateurish, for instance. I suppose you all get the idea. Don't confuse superb variations with poor choices.
TheInquisitive4Ever 2 years ago
Your are right I am with you,
tena2 2 years ago
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It is not uncommon that tenors of utmost skill sung some roles out of their fach for various reasons (bigger pay, challenging themselves, boredom...you name it). IMO the idea is to sing well even if the timbre of the voice is not 100% suitable for the role. Some people here are commenting for the sake of commenting. I don't mind (in fact I enjoy) listening to Corelli in a lyric role and Pava in a spinto -they sing extremely and it's a joy to listen to variations. Try to make sense next time.
TheInquisitive4Ever 2 years ago
It is not uncommon that tenors of utmost skill sung some roles out of their fach for various reasons (bigger pay, challenging themselves, boredom...you name it). IMO the idea is to sing well even if the timbre of the voice is not 100% suitable for the role. Some people here are commenting for the sake of commenting. I don't mind (in fact I enjoy) listening to Corelli in a lyric role and Pava in a spinto -they sing extremely and it's a joy to listen to variations. Try to make sense next time.
TheInquisitive4Ever 2 years ago
MAESTRO DE MAESTROS!!!
jcbcn751 2 years ago
While I think Kraus's voice is far too light and transparent for this role, it was lovely, lovely lovely to hear his bel canto technique ... so many of the spinto and dramatic tenors iterate this as "di quella pee-hee-hee-hee-ra," which makes me crazy.
snozzefactor 3 years ago
No way Pavarotti was the ideal Manrico. He lacked vocal weight,his low notes were weak ,his voice wasn't big enough for the spinto repertoire. He wasn't wise at all for picking this role.
tonyantony 3 years ago 10
wasn't big enough? silly.
Webarton 3 years ago
Pavarotti was what ??? Corelli is Manrico , Franco Corelli if you don't know him .
Nemorino11 3 years ago
@tonyantony I realize I'm replying to a 3 year old post, but I 100% agree. I loved and still love Pavarotti's voice. But he did not have the weight to sing this role.
jrichardsontenor 9 months ago
@jrichardsontenor Yeah... I mean... The temptation is that as a lighter voice, you have easy access to everything ("Oh, no problem, I can sing the aria in the original C major, unlike a lot of folks") but unfortunately the weight and size add something. That's why, like him or not, Corelli was so lucky, possessing both ease of range and weight and size (though even he sang it in B, most often).
8x8MaVerick8x8 5 months ago
so "german opera singer", u think that Pavarotti wasn't wise for doing il travatore? Interesting :)
vincitor 3 years ago
Yes, I think he wasn't wise for doing trovatore. =)
I'm sure many will agree.
GermanOperaSinger 3 years ago 10
I agree completely.
Didn't love the guy, but he doesn't deserve that pain of belting out Di Quella Pira.
Yoni89 3 years ago
I completely agree too... but I can't resist his 1988 "Di quella pira" at the met!
but yes, i still agree. LoL.
OettingerCroat 3 years ago
I can't resist his 'Di Quella Pira' either. It fitted his post bel canto voice like a glove. The whole role however, did not.
Mooorhe 3 years ago
totally
OettingerCroat 3 years ago
I have seen the 1988 performance live and he did bring the house down. It was wonderfully sung. It was a superb rendition of a spinto role by a mature tenore lyrico. Which parts of "variations" is so difficult to comprehend.
TheInquisitive4Ever 2 years ago
@GermanOperaSinger I agree here with you, Pav, was not wise at all with Il Trovarore, Aida, andrea chenier and a few more.
tena2 1 year ago
I also agree completely. Pavarotti wasn't suited for Il Trovatore, and the same goes for Otello, and to a lesser extent, Andrea Chenier. And as good and popular as his recordings of Nessun Dorma are, he wasn't an ideal Calaf (Turandot) either.
Not that I don't like him, I do. ;)
ShawDAMAN 3 years ago