Responding to WoodsofJordan on Supralapsarianism and original sin

[FirebrandNIRE]

Adam and the apple? Scripture said it was fruit, it didn't say which type though :)

[Kohl430]

Adam prior to the fall was free from all concupiscence.

Amen.

[WayOfTheBastard]

I would like to ask you a question, possibly even have a friendly debate with you on the subject, but how do justify original sin as moral? I understand the concept fully, what I do not understand is why it makes sense to christians, in my 8 or so years of being a (mostly) adult christian original sin never made any sense to me, and I now find it to be a rather immoral concept. Are you interested in discussing this issue? Also how do you account for Isaiah 45?

[WayOfTheBastard]

BTW I am of course now an atheist. But please do not take that to mean I hear to disrespect you for being a christian.

[StutteringDave]

What about original sin do you find immoral, exactly? I think that the traditional doctrine of original sin has some problems if looked at in a purely legalistic light, as many protestants do. However, Eastern Orthodox Christians look at sin as more of a sickness than as a legal offense.

Vinerhyme has a good video on Isaiah 45: /watch?v=ONvPscyiW-E

[WayOfTheBastard]

Original sin is the ultimate example of humanity as a scape goat. Adam and Eve commit one sin, and then every single person who exists after the fact pays for it. Sure Adam and Eve paid some price for it, but every single person that suffers in this world or the next is suffering because of the mistake of two people. I would compare it to me serving a 100 years in prison because my great grandfather stole from someone. Do you think punishing others for the sins they didn't commit is moral?

[StutteringDave]

I would argue that original sin isn't a punishment for all humanity so much as it is a condition that must be passed on by its very nature. If a pregnant mother gets an STD it is possible for the child to be born with it. The child inherits inherits the disease, but I'm not sure that one could say that he is being legalistically punished for what his mother did.

[WayOfTheBastard]

But original sin is not an std. Would you say it's fair that a child gets an STD because his pregnant mother has one? That is possibly the most unfair thing that can happen to someone, right? Creation is a closed system, if humans inherited original sin, it's because God gave it us, because of sins of the forefathers or how ever the church explains it. In any case it is certainly unjust to be punished for the sins of another. I would ask why is must be passed on by it's nature?

[WayOfTheBastard]

I am about to leave for a bit, I will watch that video in a few hours and let you know what I think, thanks for the link.

[Afrikitty]

I woiuld be VERY surprised indeed if Jordan had even the slightest inkling as to what Supralasarianism is.

Who knows what Jordan REALLY believes!

[dwaynesweatman1988]

Jordan will not answer you probably, he has yet to answer me.

Calvin taught that Adam possessed the free will and could have OBTAINED eternal life if he chose! Calvin said it was ONLY by Adams will that he fell.

Of course he is the example of what happens when a novice begins to study theology and uses Logic as apposed to all of scripture. The scripture is full of verses that teach men have the free will to choose things. While Libertarian free will is false, traditional free will is not.

[ThirstyJuicebox]

you say his argument is ahistorical, lol how ironic.

[Knowntje]

Is Jordan born with original stupidity by the way?

[TheIrrationalAtheist]

he was predestined to make that video, and you were predestined to make this response :P

[PHANTOMFIREX]

As you were predestined to make that witty comment and I make this ironic reply. :O

[Theologica37]

..and all the absurdities there implied.