VW DSG (Direct Shift Gearbox) www.audi-a1.org

[atdanis]

me again: wikipedia in english and search : dual clutch transmission. thanx

[DjTommyKx]

@atdanis yeah,,, carry on... it was an idea though it turned to shit because french cant engineer. they sold to German engineers and they fucking finished the idea with the real deap transmission u french prick

[atdanis]

remind you all there!!! DSG is a french invention, don´t be mistaken!!! (see on wifipedia in english Double_clutch_transmission and read well.

[gilessmokey]

kupplung1 and kupplung2 ,that is the sound it makes when it all goes wrong.

[redsohc]

Is it just me or is there no audio in this? What? copyrighted track again? :/

[muddwell]

Those Germans know how to engineer.

[alpha754293]

problem with the DSG though is that if the TCM selects the wrong gear or doesn't expect a shift, it takes up to 6-8 times as long (vs. correct preselection) to shift.

[eburgos527]

if the transmission picks the correct gear, the shift takes about 2 mili seconds ......so 8 times as long would be 16 mili seconds.....doesn't sound like much of a problem to me

[alpha754293]

It takes a heck of a lot longer than 2 ms for it to change gears. Try more like...300-400 ms. (Source: SAE Automotive Engineering International, July 2003, p. 33)

Downshifting, from 6th to 2nd takes the longest as it has to go through 5th first, then to 2nd, taking 900 ms.

THAT is the problem that it faces, and you have to remember that it`s designed so that you don`t have a torque-off/torque-on event/effect, in addition to improved fuel economy and efficiency.

[marek0086]

0.4 seconds is a dang long shift time!

[2jzgtejza80]

@alpha754293....DSG needs 20 ms maximum and 6 ms minimum for shift.

400ms is shifting time almost on Getrag V161 in my Supra (manual of course).

Nissan GT-R... 150ms best time

Ferrari Italia 458 ....60ms best time

F1 gearbox (Ricardo) ...30ms

[alpha754293]

@2jzgtejza80

Where is your source for that?

According to SAE Paper #2007-01-1096, Figure 7 CLEARLY shows that the VW DQ250 requires approximately 170 ms of synchronization time, with a peak force on the selector fork of 1 kN.

As I've also previously cited, SAE 1-111-7-32, your information lacks any evidence of factual truth.

I'm sure that you will be able to provide the Tag Heuer or Omega calibration charts for your 400 ms shift on the Getrag V161?

[2jzgtejza80]

Website od DSG, DCT-Nissan Technology, Ferrari website, F1 site.

Fastest SMT (Seq manual G-Box have Cars in Super GT, shift time is 250-300ms)

My shifting is not fast as like professional drivers, but V161 is rated to 400ms best time, so this time also can be 800ms with worst driver. 1 second is huge period for shifting. Have a nice day.

[alpha754293]

@2jzgtejza80

DSG doesn't HAVE it's own website from VW AG.

No results when searching for DCT at Nissan Global either.

F1's sequentials are upwards of 80 ms shift times, with the biggest difference being that they're NOT DCTs; and therefore, there is no computer to preselect a gear in anticipation of a shift event (up OR down). DSG on the other hand, there is. I've driven the Jetta TDI with the DSG and when you're accelerating normally (NOT WOT), the system does what it's suppose to.

[alpha754293]

@2jzgtejza80

When you're braking normally (no panic braking), it also downshifts normally. But if you were to go through a up-down-up shift sequence, (cruise, WOT, cruise), the entire sequence can take between 1.2-1.6 s to complete, which would average between 400-500 ms per shift.

I'm also quoting technical publications BY BorgWarner, presented during the SAE 2007 Conference BY the people who developed it. Are you going to say they're wrong, and they built the damn thing?

[alpha754293]

@2jzgtejza80 "Rated to" doesn't mean squat.

All that says is how much torsional jerk (d(alpha)/dt) the components can withstand in a manner that's easy to understand to the general public. (Otherwise, they would specify it in terms of rads/s^3) or (N.m/rad)/s.

Why don't you share the SAE publication number for your stats so that we can ALL read it?

[panzarw]

but its easier to buy a new gearbox if this one get nackered...

[Xevisberi]

Great! So there are two clutches, double the price when replacing...

[bink182rock]

lol yeah i supose.

[Lord0fSteel]

2 clutches that won't get burned that fast as they are computer-operated ;-).

[fashnek]

You replace your automatic clutches all the time, huh? And you would replace both at once for what reason?

[TheKrensky]

Automatic trans uses torque converter instead of a clutch