it seems more likely that Christianity and JW are religions alone. They are a both drops in a massive pond. Once you read the Bible using the Historical-critical method, you cannot go back. Reading Oxford or HarperCollins' study Bibles really gives you a more sobre view that is lacking in evangelical study Bibles or the NWT or the annotations of an LDS Bible.
ACTS5:39 U will be found to be FIGHTERS of GOD........Matt12:25 EVERY kingdom divide against itself will come to desolation; and it willl not stand. the TRINITY church is divide into 36,000 parts! but Jehovah's people are united***1cor1:10 same line of thought
WE follow Jesus Christ, our Lord and MASTER=1 Corinthians 2:16.Matthew 9:38,Luke 9:24. We pick up our torture stake and follow Our Dear Lord Jesus' EVERY command, EVERY law, EVERY parable, EVERY teaching. We preach the good news that he started=Matthew 4:17.He taught his disciples to put Jehovah's God name FIRST and His Kingdom=Matthew 6:9,10,33.He taught disciples to preach house to house in Matthew chap.10, 24:14,28:91,20. We make disciples of Christ WORLDWIDE. We obey our MASTER :D
Do you believe you have the mind of Christ? Do you claim to be one of the 'annointed'? Do you believe you are working the 'Masters' harvest? I don't recall Jesus passing out time cards. Do you believe filling out time slips for the Watchtower Society is losing your soul for Jesus sake? Do you believe you put the Almighty first in your life? Can you name the 'ten commandment' without looking at Deut.? Did Jesus keep the ten commandments? Do you follow Jesus?
To have the Witnesses stop coming you must ask to be placed on the " Do Not Call List". They are like telemarketers they must be seriously asked not to come back.
Jesus taught only one path to the truth...READ Matthew 7:13,14, "few are the ones finding it." JW's are the only ones following Jesus Christ today. They are obedient to Jesus when he taught his disciples to preach the good news of God's Kingdom. They follow Matthew 6:9,10, keeping God's name hallowed, or holy, using and honoring his Most Holy Name-JEHOVAH. We are witnesses that Jehovah is God! We keep separate from the world as Jesus taught. READ John 17:16. James 4:4. 1 John 5:19. TRUTH!
The Watchtower Society claims they are the only one with the 'truth'. Jesus said, "seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you." The Watchtower Society allows only the study and reading of their material, you are not allowed to 'seek'. The Watchtower Society is afraid for you to read and study on your on. Why? Jesus said, "You of little faith, why are you afraid?" Because they have little faith that you would stay once you know the truth. 1914, 25, 75
Yahweh is hebrew for Jehovah. Jehovah is english rendering for God's personal name. All who call on the name Jehovah will be saved-Romans 10:13. In Catholic douay version Exodus 6:3 footnote: God's name is Jehovah. Look in dictionaries, encycopedia, half give the definition of Jehovah. See the proof. John 17:6,26 Jesus said he made his Father's name known. Because of superstitious beliefs that God's name is not to be used by sinners, translators left it out of the bible. Jehovah is God!
The more you want the truth, the more you study the bible, then you know JW's is true! Jesus said there is only one path to the truth...READ Matthew 7:13,14, ..."few are the ones finding it." JW's are the only ones following Jesus Christ today. They are obedient to Jesus when he taught his disciples to preach the good news of God's Kingdom. They follow Matthew 6:9,10, keeping God's name hallowed, or holy, using and honoring his Most Holy Name-JEHOVAH. We are witnesses that Jehovah is God!
Thank you. I was a witness for decades. I went through the painful years after 1975. Even though I knew something was terribly wrong I could not walk away. I was in anguish. They called it spiritual paradise and I felt like I was in hell on earth. I saw so many friends who were depressed, on medication, even one committed. When I finally walked away my life was in turmoil. To this day as an older man I am affraid of religion. I hope to find the love of Christ that you have found.
@torrents4u2c I will put you a prayers my friend and I trust that The good Lord Jesus Christ will show you his love and visit the reality of personal salvation on you as he did to me. God bless you.
All religion = mind control and big money is almost always involved.
Love, light, compassion, wisdom etc. all can be expressed within the human being, no need to join any religion, no rules to the game. free ur mind people....
witness should think of this; Thomas said to jesus, “My Lord and my God!” (john 20: 28); why didn't jesus corrected him? if god was a jealous god (exodus 34: 14) then why did he had his first born worshipped?(hebrews 1: 6) don't you think he had himself worshipped? note that the bible doesn't show the father created the son; the son was aready there(john 1: 1-3) yet, but note the "I WILL BE" in (hebrews 1: 5) after calling him first born in (hebrews 1: 6)
witness don't understand that god was in flesh, but the father hasn't been seen; here are afew verses that show jesus was the father/ jesus cried out "when he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me"(John 12:45) he also answers philip "anyone who has seen me has seen the father (john 14: 9) at one time he even said "i and the father are one" (john 10: 30)/ why did they call jesus immanuel? which means "god with us" (matthew 1: 23) and even before (Isaiah 7:14)
Ephe. 1:3, 17, 1 Cor. 1:3, and other Bible texts say that the early Christians gave praise and honor to "God and Father of Jesus Christ." Who is the God and Father of Jesus Christ? Do you really believe that Jesus has a God and Father? 1 John 4:8-14 says we must believe that Jesus is the Son OF God, sent to the world to save us. Do you really believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Note that the context of 1 John 4 says no man has seen God. Do you really believe that?
The Ex-Witness in the video said he was not assured of his salvation, that he would only probably be saved. I have never seen a Witness talk like that. Witnesses have the confidence that they are saved as long as we remain faithful and endure to the end (Matt. 24:12). Christians can fall and lose their salvation as the book of Hebrews clearly teaching. But if one is remaining steafast in the faith, he or she is saved.
John 1:18 says "no man has seen God ANYTIME", and yet John 1:14, 15 says the "the Word became flesh and we beheld him". If Jesus, the Word, was seen and God was never seen, then Jesus is not Almighty God. John 14:9 can be explained from his word in John chapter 12, when after saying he that sees me see the Father, he explains that everything his Father commanded to say and do, he does...like Father like Son.
Why is it that in the OT the angels that came down to speak to God's servants were addressed as God? Does that mean that the angels were God, or that they represented God? Is the same thing true of Jesus? When Jesus died hanging on a tree, he yelled out "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Who was the God Jesus was praying to ? If Jesus is Almighty God, why did he pray to another being as his God?
Satan tempted Jesus in many occasions... If Jesus is God...then why would Satan try to temp God?... When God cannot be tempted by evil. James 1 : 13.
Jesus was born perfect (like Adam) and died perfect (unlike Adam)
In this way, Jesus is our salvation and through Jesus name we can be saved. He died perfect and restored what Adam lost. Through Adam sinned came to humanity...and through Jesus salvation.
One question...if Jesus is God in the flesh....then please tell me what is Jesus's death worth?
Satan could still say... that no man born on this planet has ever been 100% loyal to God. There was only one PERFECT man beside Jesus..and that is Adam..and he betrayed God.
So if Jesus is God..Then Satan wins the case.
But if Jesus is not God and is a creation of God...the Jesus did die PERFECT..and that destroys Satans accusations. This is why through Jesus we can be saved. Jesus is our mediator.
Governing Body's Awake Magazine pushlished in 2009 July's Issue page 29 reads No one should be forced to worship in a awy that he finds unacceptable or he made to choose between his beliefs and family. WOW!!!!!! They change once again! One corrupt organization. Man made false religion
For instance, MOST bibles EXCLUDE the name of the almighty God of the bible, The King James version of the bible used to have Jehovah in there a few times but with the New King James bible they REMOVED the name and replaced it with "Lord" which is merely a Title and NOT a name. It is very plain knowledge that Jehovah's name is mentioned in the bible around 7,000 times and to replace it with a title to mislead millions is a sin I can not fathom.
Oh and by the way half of what these gentleman said are lies, Jehovah's Witnesses ARE NOT banned from reading any materials contrary to JW doctrine.
I have never seen a Jehovah's Witness EVER say "my bible says this", and if they did they were very very weak in knowing the truth. I would reason that MOST bible translations are 90% similar in the message they present, but some specific areas differ slightly in meaning and the reasons for this are very simply explainable.
You see, Beloved, if you have My Son in your heart and know Him, you know Me. You have access to all I am and all I have. He is the personification of who I am. If you have seen Him you have seen Me, your heavenly Father, for I am in Him and He is in Me. He, Himself said, “Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father “(John 14:6-9, John 14:19-21). .
And ill go on record as firmly not believing in trinity. Also stating we dont pick and choose what we believe in the bible.. correct hammer you would do well to heed your own words.
I think I need to go on record again as a firm believer in the concept of the Trinity. I don't fully understand how Three unique individual entities can be One unique entity but I do know that Jesus clearly said the He and the Father were "One". What Jesus said trumps the thoughts of men. If the Scriptures said it then I accept it. Just like I accept that Jesus paid for my sins. We don't pick and choose what we believe in the Bible. We believe it all or it's just words on paper.
Many times I have set my "Logic" aside and just believed the Revealed Word of God. That is what Faith demands. I can use Reason and Logic but when they fail I can lean on the Word of God and know that even though I don't always get it that it makes sense to God.. We have the Holy Spirit and I have called upon that source many times but parts of Scripture MUST be believed using ONLY Faith. I am comfortable understanding what I understand. If I need more I believe God will provide it.
If God is love then God cannot live in isolation. In order for love to exist, there must be lover, a beloved and the love between them. If God were a solitary Person, there would have been no love apart from the creation of the world, making God dependent on the world for part of his very nature.
@mjr2168 God did not live in isolation before the world was made ... think 'Angels'. ... But I more or less agree that God made humanity to share His love. One of the attributes of God is His love so I can't necessarily agree that God needed mankind to make His love real. I still see some presumptive thinking in your post. You are still trying to read God's mind. All we know about God is what He has revealed about Himself through scripture. We cannot surmise about the nature of God beyond that.
Jesus said the He was the express image of God. Seeing the attitudes and behaviors of Jesus does give us more insight into God but we really still only have the Scriptures because Jesus Himself often used the Scriptures when describing God and God's Kingdom. Jesus refered back to the Prophets often when describing Heavenly things.
@hammerogod There had to be a time when God lived in Isolation. When I say isolation I mean without his created beings and angels would be one of them. (John 1, in the beginning was the word, and the word was God), Does this cover my presumption.
We all know that God not only "SHOWS" Love but he "IS" (personification) of Love. For him to "SHOW" love he needs creation. For him to be" IS" Love, a godly expression of love, he needs to be a trinity (Lover, beloved and the fuit of Love).
“Then God said, ‘Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth” (Genesis 1:26)
*** Most asked questions ever ***
#1 - "Why are we here?"
And
#2 - "Why did God create us??"
The simple answer to that question can only be: "We don't really know"
I suppose there must have been a period when the Godhead was 'Isolated' .
@hammerogod The bottom line is that God is going to Glorify Himself. It isn't a selfish act it's His right. We are, we must be, a part of that. God is 'Creative' by nature. God will Glorify Himself. He said so....therefore all of His creation(s) will Glorify Him eventually. Think it over, this may be the ultimate answer to those question I alluded to earlier. Anyway: Psalm 145 give some tremendous insights into the whys.
Biblical examples of these seeds of the holy trinity can be see in the Shema "Here O Isreal: The Lord our God is ONE Lord. There are two words in Hebrew for "one": "yachid", meaning the solitrary one. and "echad" which can suggest a unity of several parts eg husband and wife are one [echad] flesh. It is the word "echad" that is used in the Shema which hints the idea of the Trinity. The same expression we see in Gen 1:26, 11:7 "Let us go down" yet no one else comes down with God.
@hammerogod Wait a minute, your saying God didn't want us to understand his word? Or have a relationship with him? God wanted even the uneducated to understand his word so if he did put any inclination in the scriptures of trinity then it wouldn't be too hard to grasp. :) How can someone have a relationship with God without Grasping what he is? God never said trinity was the fact and you are twisting his words.
@thongdongalong God wanted and still wants us to BELIEVE what He told us. If you are asking if God wants us to understand things that are immeasurably far above our capacity for understanding then NO. It is pure presumption and arrogance to even begin to think we can understand the mind of God. He gave us enough details and instructions to get us through this life. We can't even agree and understand the basics, why would God give us more? We will have all of Eternity to catch on to the rest.
@hammerogod That whole paragraph is flawed on the one hand your saying God would give us the basics ad we shouldn't think we should understand. So why then are you seeking to prove the trinity if god if God just wanted us to know the basics, something we can't understand shouldn't matter right as long as we have the basics. Yet trinitarians are tying there hardest to promote this belief and understand it.. Its FLAWED.. Its because it is not the word of God and it is mans added doctrine.
@thongdongalong Even though you may think it is flawed I stand by it. We only partly understand what we have already been told about God. I strongly contend that we don't fully understand ALL of what is said in Scripture.. We cannot understand the mind of God beyond the Scripture and what was delivered by Jesus. For instance: If you can FULLY understand the discourse on the Mt of Olives or the imagery in the Revelation of John you are better than I am. Even Jesus called some things Mysteries.
@hammerogod The council of Nicaea bought this doctrine in along with the idea of the cross WELL knowing that the word STAUROS was used by the early christians as a stake! Its all there if you research it. Oh and also they brought in idol worship which is clearly against Gods word. Funny how all the cross and idol worship go had in hand. These are teachings of MEN!!
@thongdongalong John20: 25 Consequently the other disciples would say to him: “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them: “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will certainly not believe.”
@thongdongalong If He was crucified on a stake it would be a singular nail for the hands. " Unless i see in his hands the print of the nail (not nails).
@thongdongalong Admittedly that "Stauros" meant stake in Classical Greek. To which the JW's allude to. But the NT was written in Kione Greek, where "stauros" could mean both a stake and a cross.
Recent Archaeological discoveries have further disproved JW stance on the STAUROS concept. Please refer to"Anthropological Observations on the Skeletal Remains from Giv’at ha-Mivtar," written by N. Haas of the Department of Anatomy at Hebrew University. and the Paletine Cross.
@thongdongalong The legend of King Arthur and his round table is widely know, but that does not suffice as a fact of truth. Your defence of your statement on the doctrine of the trinity depends on the type of Greek used and the explanation of the two nails and not one as depicted in John 20:25.
@mjr2168 Pfffttt that was just a totally idiotic statement.. Anyway if anyone actually wants to have a serious conversation send me a message cause i don't have time for this...
@thongdongalong If you Pfftttt the statement about the nails you are pffting against a verse from you own bible. If you are Pftting the argument on the Greek, it only shows how far you will go to seek the real truth. Remember truth was not an idea by it was a man.
@mjr2168 I meant the bit about the round table obviously... The Bible does not say whether his hands were nailed one on top of the other with a single nail through them both, or side by side with a separate nail through each. If the latter was the case, Thomas' remark could be understood as applying only to Jesus' hands.
@mjr2168 There is, though, another possibility that cannot be ruled out. Many scholars believe that a nail or nails pierced Jesus' feet, fixing them to the post directly or to a small platform attached to the stake. Jesus himself may have referred to wounds in his hands and his feet on another occasion when he appeared to the disciples.
@mjr2168 So as to convince them that he really was the resurrected Jesus, he said: "See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself." (Luke 24:39) Thomas did not specifically mention Jesus' feet. But his comment about "the print of the nails" may have included Christ's hands and feet, though only the hands were named.
@mjr2168 The Arthurian tale was obviously an example to show the futility of you point of the stauros was a widely known concept. On the contrary a majority of the crucifixion depicted in art is on a regular cross. The second century graffitti of the Paletine Cross is a cross and not a stauros. (The Paletine cross was made by anti Christians ) excavation in the 20the century also show victims of cross crucifixion and not stake.
NWT John 20:25 Consequently the other disciples would say to him: “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them: “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will certainly not believe.”
I am not alluding to the feet, but to this verse from your bible, which clearly states
the unavoidable fact " the apostle wants to see the print of the nails in his hands"
We know that in a Stauros crucifixion a single nail was used for the hands. A nail was pierced through the wrist of the crossed hands of the victim.
That verse does not refer to the feet at all, it clearly state "stick my finger into the print of the "nails". And it is only on a conventional cross where two nails are used to pin the victim down on a cross beam.
@thongdongalong The legend of King Arthur and his round table is widely know, but that does not suffice as a fact of truth. Your defence of your statement on the doctrine of the trinity depends on the type of Greek used and the explanation of why two nails and not one as depicted in John 20:25. If he was crucified on a stake they would have used one nail not two.
@thongdongalong The Concil of Nicaea, ratiifed the doctrine of the TRINITY, It did not develop the doctrine. The doctrine of the trinity existed right from the Penticost room. It is seem clearly in the writings of the Early Church Fathers and by the time it hit Nicaea it was well developed, historically, theologically and philosophically along with the hypostatic union.
@thongdongalong The Council of Nicea only "Ratified" the concept of the "Trinity", they didn't manufacture it. It was already an established and accepted concept.
And
Roman "Crucifixions" were called "Crucifixions" because the thing they used was "Cruciform" (crossed posts)
They were called "Crucifixions" from before the time of Christ.
Death by being impaled is nearly as old as mankind.
The Romans used it commonly but not on 'Stakes" during the time of Christ.
@hammerogod Jer 23:14 14 And in the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen horrible things, committing adultery and walking in falsehood; and they have strengthened the hands of evildoers in order that they should not return, each one from his own badness. To me all of them have become like Sod´om, and the inhabitants of her like Go·mor´rah.”
@thongdongalong Yes. The world is full of evil and has been since Adam and Eve. Jesus came to bring the Kingdom of God. He died to save us. He completed the Law and set us free from God's wrath. We can't do anything except Believe and Obey. God's word say that The "Father" the "Son" and the "Holy Spirit" are one and equal. Using the word "Trinity" is just wordplay and does not begin to describe what is REALLY happening in Heavenly Places. The word is used to describe the undescribable
@hammerogod No the trinity is used to describe the relationship between God Almighty, Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit. You just spouting jibber jabber now.
@thongdongalong Like I said, it's just a word. Words have meaning. We use words to describe things. The problems begin when a word means different things to different people. The simple word "Trinity" means "Three". I refuse to get caught up in useless conflicts about semantics. I KNOW what it means to me and that is all that counts. Millions of people happen to think it means the same thing I do, but that doesn't change anything. You can call Chocolate "Horseshoe" but it's still Chocolate.
@hammerogod If God is love, and we all know that God is love, he cannot have any other nature but that of a triune one. If God is love then God cannot live in isolation. In order for love to exist, there must be lover, a beloved and the love between them. If God were a solitary Person, there would have been no love apart from the creation of the world, making God dependent on the world for part of his very nature. God cannot be dependent on the world for his essence of love.
That is why we see a plurality in the Godhead. So that this" IS love" concept can perputuate within the trinity independent of "SHOWING LOVE" to his creation. The important thing to remember is God IS love, and love needs persons within the Godhead independent of the love of his creation to maintain this devine love.
@hammerogod The word trinity does not mean Three. Tri mean three. Trinity means tri- unitiy. It has a definite theological meaning and is not left up to private interpretations. It belong to the part of theology called Progressive Revelations". Words have different meaning, sure. But the appropriate meaning of the word is contextual and what the user of the word tends to mean. In the same vane of things Trinity mean triune, triunity, Three persons in one being and nothing else.
@thongdongalong Yes the Trinity is a real and living concept the ultimate truth drawn out of a number of truths depicted both in the NT and th OT. No it is not used to describe the relations between three beings, but it is used to define God as one devine Being, who subsist in three devine persons, know as the father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is mystery in the strict theological sense and not in the incomprehensible sense.
@hammerogod Can you please state scriptures when making this argument please. And try not have to bend the words here and there to get the trinity to fit in please. :)
The doctrine of the Trinity is encapsulated in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
The parallelism of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit is not unique to Matthew’s Gospel, but appears elsewhere in the New Testament (e.g., 2 Cor. 13:14, Heb. 9:14), as well as in the writings of the earliest Christians. the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are three divine persons who are one divine being (God).
@hammerogod So if jesus was ALMIGHTY GOD why is amlighty god in original hebrew YWHW. That is there in the original hebrew scriptures. 14 The undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the sharing in the holy spirit be with all of YOU.< that doesnt show they are the one.. Its talking about the love of the lord jesus and the love of God. Two seperate beings.
@thongdongalong I don't fully understand the "Trinity".I have already said that. I really don't fully understand it. I accept God's word that The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are part of the Godhead and Jesus was comfortable with being called "My Lord and my God". When I stand before Jesus I will ask Him what the "Trinity" thing was about. Until then I will Worship Jesus as God and pray in His name. I don't have to understand it. I just have to do as God said and obey. It's not hard.
@hammerogod 14 how much more will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works that we may render sacred service to [the] living God? He offered himself to God, just proves my point even more. Would you offer yourself to yourself?
@hammerogod Because the holy spirit is used as gods active force to do his will, you can only reach the father through jesus. If he was the one being hor entity it wouldn't be neccessary to say the father the son and the holy spirit would it.
If you accuse me of bending words again I will make it my life's work to show you where your Founder (Charles Taze Russell) made vast changes in the Word of God for his own selfish purposes.
Russell created his own version of the Bible and changed important Concepts and Contexts.
His version of the Bible is a mess when it addresses the Diety and Nature of Jesus.
If you want to turn this into something ugly just challenge me to make The Watchtower Societly look stupid.
@hammerogod Haha im well aware of the phrophecies etc that were wrong. The path is getting lighter and lighter. As it says in the bible. The watchtower society is still being used today by God, but, this will change but when God wants it too. ehovah did not foresake Judah until the Chaldeans invaded. He put up with their hypocrisy and apostasy for a long time. But then, suddenly, they were broken. Can i ask funnily enough i do not know what faith you are.
"Can i ask funnily enough i do not know what faith you are."
You are asking me what my "Denomination" is and it's none of your business.
But I will tell you anyway... I Grew up Catholic. I left the RCC because many of the Doctrines were not Biblical. I joined the Baptists but left when I discovered that the Southern Baptist Convention was and is Racist. I now attend and worship in a Fellowship that actually reads the Scriptures and thinks. I am only affiliated with Jesus.
@hammerogod Sometime I wonder how ex Catholic can say such things. The very base of Christianity is the doctrine of the Trinity which was burnt and forged in the Catholic Church. The very thought of this brought me to the Catholic Church. Even now in the 21st Century to get real deep in the trinity, you have to go to Catholic Writers and theologians. For me the only doctrine that kept me way was the Doctrine of Authority nothing else. The choice was to be my own Pope or not.
The Doctrines (Dogmas) that pushed me away from the RCC was the status of Mary (Jesus' Mother), the veneration of the 'Saints, sales of 'Indulgences' and 'Papal 'Infallability'.
Mary has no special status.
She is not the "co-redeemtrix" (though this is widely accepted as Dogma).
Both Peter and Paul referred to the 'Believers' as "Saints" so no particular personage deserves additional reverence.
You already know about the 'Indulgences' I suppose (?)
@hammerogod There cannot be a Catholic Slant in the Bible. The Bible belongs to the Catholic Church. It was read in its complete form for 1400 years. The First slant began with Luther and now has millions of slants.
@tehCRITIZIZER The canon of the bible, was a decision of the Catholic Church, harshed out through the 200 years after Christ and foramalised at Trent and at the fourth century councils at Hippo and Carthage
@mjr2168 1: the bible consists of both the new AND the old testament.. the old testament may have been claimed and used by the catholic church but they are not the original "owners" of that scripture.
2: what is now the orthodox church and the catholic church was at that time still one and therefore renders any claims of being "the original church" mute.. also the creed of nicea (which is the one i assume you are reffering to) is used by just about all christian religions..
@hammerogod No where do you find the Catholic Church calling the Pope anything but a Man. The Pope is the successor of Peter and if Peter was just a man why would you assume the Pope is something more. This is a common misconception, Why would you think such a thing.
As a 20 yr old man in Vietnam I heard the complete Gospel of Salvation by Grace (and Grace alone) for the FIRST time.
After growing up in a massive, organized, disciplined, wealthy, worldwide, established church I was hearing the Gospel of Grace (the REAL good news) for the FIRST time from a 20 yr old who grew up as a Protestant, one of the people we were taught to pity because they were Pagans.
@hammerogod Regarding the misconception of not being allowed to read the bible, the Church did not encourage the self interpretation of the Bible, the dangers of which warned by Peter is manifest in Protestantism, where you have the bible interpreted in impunity so much so there are so many denomination all touting there own vesion of intepretation. I avoided the interpretation of one authority only to find myself subjected to thousands.
@hammerogod Maybe you misconception grew out of the traditions you were brought up in. However the Cathecism and the Missal are very biblical and many Protestant faith still have their version of Cathecism and Missal that they follow defined or not. I grew up in a mixed Christian Faith and I am aware of the tradition that protestant have, but are afraid to define. The selected verse do exist in the protestant faith too.
@hammerogod You will sure agree with me when I say Catholics indeed believe that the death of Jesus Christ is all sufficient for the salvation of our sins. But I am not sure whether you will agree that humans can co operate with God and need to respond to God's grace to be effective in our lives. This cooperation with God is not just for our individual salvation. We are called to identify with Christ (Peter calls himself co-worker with Christ and he is crucified with Christ).
@mjr2168 Let's not argue. I love the Catholics. I love you Brother. We agree on 99.99999999% of Scripture. Even the Apostles couldn't do better than that. I had a different need and I found it and satisfied it outside of the RCC. BUT...The RCC gave me a sound foundation otherwise. The problem may have been the local Diocese and not the Church as a whole. I really suspect that may be the case. The Priest in the church was a troubled man and that lead to many problems.
Although it took me some time to figure out Purgatory. I believed in it because I believe in the infalliblity of the Churh and its teaching. Purgatory is Biblically based. I have followed both sides of the arguement. Most protestant misunderstand it, thinking it as a second chance place. For me it is a clean up stop before you go to meet the Big Big Cheese.
@mjr2168 ..."For me it is a clean up stop before you go to meet the Big Big Cheese."... Heh...Yeah...we may need some preparation for that. I had never thought of it that way. I can see some loose Scriptural support for the concept. Either way the question WILL be answered. I don't plan to live in this body much longer. I am taking care of my health now just so I can be alive when Jesus calls us ALL home. I wanna see that. Selfishly I want to see the look on some people's faces. Forgive me.
@hammerogod The late Archbishop Fulton Sheen once said, "There are not even 100 people in this country who hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they think the Catholic Church to be."
This statement is so true for the world today. Anyway all the best. I hope God give you the faith you need to return back to the loving arms of Mother Church. Dont foget to get hold of that Book I mention. would love your feedback when you do. G'Day Mate.
@hammerogod I have read bits and pieces of the deuterocanonical books, The most I enjoy are the Wisdom book, they are good for a read, even if you dont feel them as inspired. They are really good. It would be great to come back home. Read this book by Scott and Kimberley Hahn Rome Sweet Home. That book got me on track.
@hammerogod Oh and the WBTS is only a guidance to us which God has used to channel his word down, I am building my personal relationship with God not with man. And once God forsakes the WBTS i will be ready.
i think you know all these things but delibretely you have chosen to confuse rightly disposed individuals who call to this program and of course who listens to you.
when i meet people who believe in trinity, i must say i'm happy and guess what i dont wait for them to show me what they have as prove that the whole bible is wrong with the false reasoning of trinity. i explain it to them even before they can come up with it. The holy bible says God exalted "Jesus to a superior position". after his ascesion to heaven. how would you explain that. Would you say that God exalted himself to a superior position after he came to the earth as a man?
@hammerogod would this be ur explanation of "Jesus being exalted by God to a SUPERIOR position? come on! are u kidding me?? Jesus of course shared glory with his father in the heaven, which is by far greater than that of a man he was when he was on earth. but the point of emphasis is on SUPERIOR POSITION. Was God almighty exalted to a superior position by your own understanding? if so by whom? please feel free to respond
@shessme Jesus is clearly asking that He be RETURNED to the Glory He had before the "Incarnation". He was not asking to be exalted for the first time. He was asking to be RETURNED to the position He ALWAYS had. My feeling is that Jesus prayed for our sakes, just so we would have documentation. I am pretty sure that the intent of the Father was always to have the Son seated AGAIN at His right hand. Now if anyone understands this better you can ask them. I can only provide what Jesus said.
@hammerogod you haven't answered my question, ...," intent of the Father was always to have the Son seated AGAIN at His right hand"... who is the father, and who is d son?.matthew 28:18 jesus said after his resurection before he left the earth , All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth. who gave him this authority? in addition pls read daniel 7:13 there the son of man was brought before SOMEONE in the heavens . my question is who is that SOMEONE and who is the son of man?
@pickerpiker "i dont wait for them to show me what they have as proof" (with your spelling corrected) Perhaps you should listen. Once you close your mind it's over, unless. The Holy Spirit has a way of opening minds, but it's not always a comfortable experience. God first has to tear down the Temples you have built in your mind. I went through it. You will, perhaps, if you have courage, make it through also. Jesus is Lord and God. Just like Thomas proclaimed. Peace.
at 8:18 you quoted where thomas called jesus my God. Jesus ealier on dt same chapter had told his disciple dt he was ascending 2 his GOD and ur GOD. So clearly thomas did not contradict that statement by Jesus. Thomas could rightly refer 2 jesus as my God, d same way angels sent by God in d past are addressed as God becos they are God representatives(Judges 2:1-5; 6:11-15; 13:20-22.) if u read john20:28 downwards it says all these is written that u may believe dt jesus is d SON of GOD.
Min 7 it is said that no one ever shared the love of Christ - Gospel. I am sure the speaker means well. I have heard many say the same. But I wonder on this. I have had the experience of seeing a JW read the BIble verse but not see that it says the opposite to the WT and even when time is given to the verse still not able to take in what they read. I think that it is possible that someone did share the Gospel with the JW but s/he was not able to take in what was being said.
@candyandi28 Nah. They're confused. Technically all religions are cults by definition, they're man made. I grew up a witness but I'm borderline agnostic now.
thank you so much for posting this, what a great help i have a good friend being pulled into jw from family and friends. and i had know idea how and what they believe, wow i am praying for my friend to be saved.
@rick91chevy funny guy that almost sounds like ur a wise guy gangster outta a movie.. put em upppp put em upppp. haha. And the same goes for you you are saying your praying for him he doesnt need your prayers.. you need his. :) and a bit of his intellect aswell.. :) agape
@thongdongalong sounds like your out of a movie you live in, (Wizard of oz) haha. Are you a Jehovah witness? you sound full of your self, then you end your sentence with(agape). So again you opinion is yours, my intellect is not of your concern or for you judgment, you need to show respect, and find yourself! Romans 8:28 look it up.
@rick91chevy So its okay to slate people but you don't like it back.. hmmmm, most weak minded people are like that. Im only human, i try to love my enemy but it is hard sometimes. Stop blabbing scriptures to make yourself look cool, you took one look at this video and thought it was right. Probably aint done a bit of research into the scriptures. Funny that i've been showing plenty respect to people that don't talk garbage even thought they maybe don't agree with me.
@thongdongalong ok so your a JW, i guess, you are raised in this church? my post was not to you, but for all aside, me learning about there beliefs. You on the other hand, have way to much time, offending people, you don't agree with. you speak of agape, but your name is thongdongalong????? common. Then you call Scripture babel. No offense but your all over the board! You speak of intellect, and respect, i don't see that from you? Whats up with you post about pour gas on your self,match?GB
The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.
If salvation is assured in the Bible Please explain: 1Co 9:27 I harden my body with blows and bring it under complete control, to keep myself from being disqualified after having called others to the contest.Heb 4:1 Now, God has offered us the promise that we may receive that rest he spoke about. Let us take care, then, that none of you will be found to have failed to receive that promised rest.
1 Tim 5:21 The Church is the foundation and pillar of truth. It is the Church not the Bible which is the foundation and the pillar of truth. The Church that gave us the Bible, the Church that gave us the doctrine of the Trinity, ie the Roman Catholic Church.
@pureinheart777 Faith alone does'nt cut it either. Faith and works. Its all over the Bible, youve got to take off those Luther glasses. The Bible belongs to the Catholic church, so in other words the bible will not contradict the teaching of the Catholic Church. The doctrine that you base you whole faith in ie The doctrine of the Trinity is a doctrine of the RCC.
(Romans 3:20-28) "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. {21} But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; {22} Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: {23} For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
{24} Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: {25} Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; {26} To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
{27} Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. {28} Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
@hammerogod One problem at a time. You seem to be quite knowing. Could you start with I Tim 3:15. Ex protestant tell me that once you get you head around that. The Bilbe looks a whole lot different. Secondly they say why bikker with the simple things when they have got the trinity right.
@mjr2168 1 Tim 3: 1-13 discusses the role and attributes of 'Church' leadership. It outlines roles and criteria for local Ministery. Paul was not sure how long it would be until he could personally visit so he sent these instructions ahead of time.
The Biblical definition of "Church" has never been a building it has always been the people.
Paul was giving an established group ('Church') detailed instructions.
@hammerogod: I think 1Tim 3:15 puts Solar Scriptura to rest, by making the Church the Pillar and foundation of truth and not the bible. Because the verse begs the question what was the church doing for the first 300 years without the Bible. What is you input.
@hammerogod Romans is about the Judiaisers, those Guys who wanted the new convert to become jews first and undergo all the Jews rites of circumcision etc. Paul is talk about all the dead laws and works which mean nothing in the New Covenant. If this is not the case then there is a clash with your quotes and James 2:24. Jas 2:24 You see, then, that it is by our actions that we are put right with God, and not by our faith alone. Thee only place you find alone used and in the negative.
Why would God who speaks about keeping the eye simple say seek and you will find what ever you ask in my name?
its becoming incredibly complicated for the simple eye Why is it so complicated to say the name of God YHWH so why does not God himself just make all these things plain and clear so there would be no confusion think about it ...why are people arguing amongst themselves and why is there so much confusion
I do not believe that we should judge those in the JW organization either. It is only God whom should judge, in my opinion. I am judged for not remaining in the organization; however, I will not do the same to them. I know they are sincere, but simply misled.
"For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is goodness, righteousness, and truth), finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them." Ephesians 5:8-11
We are called to display a high level of Discernment.
Yes, if anyone reads literature from reading literature that is critical of the societies viewpoint. And, yes, if the faith is the "truth", why would that be?
God never created a "Religion", He created a "Relationship" ... all "Religions" are man-made ... One God, One Faith ... without Faith no amount of Rites and Rules and Laws and Rituals and Practices have any value ... without the simple acceptance of God's free gift of Salvation through Christ (a one on one relationship) then nothing else matters.
Bernhard Lohse says in A Short History of Christian Doctrine: “As far as the New Testament is concerned, one does not find in it an actual doctrine of the Trinity.”
it seems more likely that Christianity and JW are religions alone. They are a both drops in a massive pond. Once you read the Bible using the Historical-critical method, you cannot go back. Reading Oxford or HarperCollins' study Bibles really gives you a more sobre view that is lacking in evangelical study Bibles or the NWT or the annotations of an LDS Bible.
drewskione 1 month ago
ACTS5:39 U will be found to be FIGHTERS of GOD........Matt12:25 EVERY kingdom divide against itself will come to desolation; and it willl not stand. the TRINITY church is divide into 36,000 parts! but Jehovah's people are united***1cor1:10 same line of thought
31devildestroyer 2 months ago
damn... i am not jw but they dont even believe and teach people that they are going to heaven. the clip is wrong
Tommygboy 2 months ago
WE follow Jesus Christ, our Lord and MASTER=1 Corinthians 2:16.Matthew 9:38,Luke 9:24. We pick up our torture stake and follow Our Dear Lord Jesus' EVERY command, EVERY law, EVERY parable, EVERY teaching. We preach the good news that he started=Matthew 4:17.He taught his disciples to put Jehovah's God name FIRST and His Kingdom=Matthew 6:9,10,33.He taught disciples to preach house to house in Matthew chap.10, 24:14,28:91,20. We make disciples of Christ WORLDWIDE. We obey our MASTER :D
eternityandforever 5 months ago
@eternityandforever
Do you believe you have the mind of Christ? Do you claim to be one of the 'annointed'? Do you believe you are working the 'Masters' harvest? I don't recall Jesus passing out time cards. Do you believe filling out time slips for the Watchtower Society is losing your soul for Jesus sake? Do you believe you put the Almighty first in your life? Can you name the 'ten commandment' without looking at Deut.? Did Jesus keep the ten commandments? Do you follow Jesus?
torrents4u2c 5 months ago
@eternityandforever So what is the good news exactly?
koenan1 2 months ago in playlist Saved From Jehovah's Witness
To have the Witnesses stop coming you must ask to be placed on the " Do Not Call List". They are like telemarketers they must be seriously asked not to come back.
cmfernandez9283 5 months ago
"Christianity can take any amount of criticism, any amount of challenge."
ZimZam205 5 months ago
@ZimZam205 "Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried." - GK Chesterton.
Doesn't make it true just because Chesterton said it. It just gives it an interesting perspective.
koenan1 2 months ago in playlist Saved From Jehovah's Witness
save everone.... broaden your horizon and watch the sun rise. peace forever love.. Maddy
HawkeyeDigitalFilms 6 months ago
Just trading one delusion for another.
TeaDbluJay 7 months ago
Jesus taught only one path to the truth...READ Matthew 7:13,14, "few are the ones finding it." JW's are the only ones following Jesus Christ today. They are obedient to Jesus when he taught his disciples to preach the good news of God's Kingdom. They follow Matthew 6:9,10, keeping God's name hallowed, or holy, using and honoring his Most Holy Name-JEHOVAH. We are witnesses that Jehovah is God! We keep separate from the world as Jesus taught. READ John 17:16. James 4:4. 1 John 5:19. TRUTH!
eternityandforever 8 months ago
@eternityandforever
The Watchtower Society claims they are the only one with the 'truth'. Jesus said, "seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you." The Watchtower Society allows only the study and reading of their material, you are not allowed to 'seek'. The Watchtower Society is afraid for you to read and study on your on. Why? Jesus said, "You of little faith, why are you afraid?" Because they have little faith that you would stay once you know the truth. 1914, 25, 75
torrents4u2c 7 months ago
Yahweh is hebrew for Jehovah. Jehovah is english rendering for God's personal name. All who call on the name Jehovah will be saved-Romans 10:13. In Catholic douay version Exodus 6:3 footnote: God's name is Jehovah. Look in dictionaries, encycopedia, half give the definition of Jehovah. See the proof. John 17:6,26 Jesus said he made his Father's name known. Because of superstitious beliefs that God's name is not to be used by sinners, translators left it out of the bible. Jehovah is God!
eternityandforever 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The more you want the truth, the more you study the bible, then you know JW's is true! Jesus said there is only one path to the truth...READ Matthew 7:13,14, ..."few are the ones finding it." JW's are the only ones following Jesus Christ today. They are obedient to Jesus when he taught his disciples to preach the good news of God's Kingdom. They follow Matthew 6:9,10, keeping God's name hallowed, or holy, using and honoring his Most Holy Name-JEHOVAH. We are witnesses that Jehovah is God!
eternityandforever 8 months ago
90% of jws mean well, brainwashed and very narrow minded yet they do mean well.
i used to be one, so glad i left, life got so much more enjoyable
llandod77 9 months ago
@llandod77 "90% of jws mean well"
88,2% of all statistics are made-up baloney.
De5O54 7 months ago
Thank you. I was a witness for decades. I went through the painful years after 1975. Even though I knew something was terribly wrong I could not walk away. I was in anguish. They called it spiritual paradise and I felt like I was in hell on earth. I saw so many friends who were depressed, on medication, even one committed. When I finally walked away my life was in turmoil. To this day as an older man I am affraid of religion. I hope to find the love of Christ that you have found.
torrents4u2c 9 months ago
@torrents4u2c I will put you a prayers my friend and I trust that The good Lord Jesus Christ will show you his love and visit the reality of personal salvation on you as he did to me. God bless you.
ojaymon 5 months ago
All religion = mind control and big money is almost always involved.
Love, light, compassion, wisdom etc. all can be expressed within the human being, no need to join any religion, no rules to the game. free ur mind people....
1denben 10 months ago
@1denben same i dislike religion.
danwazhere7 9 months ago
witness should think of this; Thomas said to jesus, “My Lord and my God!” (john 20: 28); why didn't jesus corrected him? if god was a jealous god (exodus 34: 14) then why did he had his first born worshipped?(hebrews 1: 6) don't you think he had himself worshipped? note that the bible doesn't show the father created the son; the son was aready there(john 1: 1-3) yet, but note the "I WILL BE" in (hebrews 1: 5) after calling him first born in (hebrews 1: 6)
0120RAFAEL 10 months ago
witness don't understand that god was in flesh, but the father hasn't been seen; here are afew verses that show jesus was the father/ jesus cried out "when he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me"(John 12:45) he also answers philip "anyone who has seen me has seen the father (john 14: 9) at one time he even said "i and the father are one" (john 10: 30)/ why did they call jesus immanuel? which means "god with us" (matthew 1: 23) and even before (Isaiah 7:14)
0120RAFAEL 10 months ago
Ephe. 1:3, 17, 1 Cor. 1:3, and other Bible texts say that the early Christians gave praise and honor to "God and Father of Jesus Christ." Who is the God and Father of Jesus Christ? Do you really believe that Jesus has a God and Father? 1 John 4:8-14 says we must believe that Jesus is the Son OF God, sent to the world to save us. Do you really believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Note that the context of 1 John 4 says no man has seen God. Do you really believe that?
davidl7b 11 months ago
The Ex-Witness in the video said he was not assured of his salvation, that he would only probably be saved. I have never seen a Witness talk like that. Witnesses have the confidence that they are saved as long as we remain faithful and endure to the end (Matt. 24:12). Christians can fall and lose their salvation as the book of Hebrews clearly teaching. But if one is remaining steafast in the faith, he or she is saved.
davidl7b 11 months ago
John 1:18 says "no man has seen God ANYTIME", and yet John 1:14, 15 says the "the Word became flesh and we beheld him". If Jesus, the Word, was seen and God was never seen, then Jesus is not Almighty God. John 14:9 can be explained from his word in John chapter 12, when after saying he that sees me see the Father, he explains that everything his Father commanded to say and do, he does...like Father like Son.
davidl7b 11 months ago
Why is it that in the OT the angels that came down to speak to God's servants were addressed as God? Does that mean that the angels were God, or that they represented God? Is the same thing true of Jesus? When Jesus died hanging on a tree, he yelled out "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Who was the God Jesus was praying to ? If Jesus is Almighty God, why did he pray to another being as his God?
davidl7b 11 months ago
u know this is fake
BlackCyclone99 1 year ago
@BlackCyclone99 how?
vengence7times 1 year ago
Satan tempted Jesus in many occasions... If Jesus is God...then why would Satan try to temp God?... When God cannot be tempted by evil. James 1 : 13.
Jesus was born perfect (like Adam) and died perfect (unlike Adam)
In this way, Jesus is our salvation and through Jesus name we can be saved. He died perfect and restored what Adam lost. Through Adam sinned came to humanity...and through Jesus salvation.
sfumato1002 1 year ago
One question...if Jesus is God in the flesh....then please tell me what is Jesus's death worth?
Satan could still say... that no man born on this planet has ever been 100% loyal to God. There was only one PERFECT man beside Jesus..and that is Adam..and he betrayed God.
So if Jesus is God..Then Satan wins the case.
But if Jesus is not God and is a creation of God...the Jesus did die PERFECT..and that destroys Satans accusations. This is why through Jesus we can be saved. Jesus is our mediator.
sfumato1002 1 year ago
Governing Body's Awake Magazine pushlished in 2009 July's Issue page 29 reads No one should be forced to worship in a awy that he finds unacceptable or he made to choose between his beliefs and family. WOW!!!!!! They change once again! One corrupt organization. Man made false religion
Journeyride 1 year ago
For instance, MOST bibles EXCLUDE the name of the almighty God of the bible, The King James version of the bible used to have Jehovah in there a few times but with the New King James bible they REMOVED the name and replaced it with "Lord" which is merely a Title and NOT a name. It is very plain knowledge that Jehovah's name is mentioned in the bible around 7,000 times and to replace it with a title to mislead millions is a sin I can not fathom.
TruthSeekingOne 1 year ago
Oh and by the way half of what these gentleman said are lies, Jehovah's Witnesses ARE NOT banned from reading any materials contrary to JW doctrine.
I have never seen a Jehovah's Witness EVER say "my bible says this", and if they did they were very very weak in knowing the truth. I would reason that MOST bible translations are 90% similar in the message they present, but some specific areas differ slightly in meaning and the reasons for this are very simply explainable.
TruthSeekingOne 1 year ago
Jehovah is the one and only true God.
Jesus is distinctly different from Jehovah, bashing Jehovah's Witnesses doesn't help you to prove the trinity doctrine.
Jesus said in his own words "For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him."
Jehovah SENT his son, he did not transform HIMSELF into a God/Son.
Why would Jesus pray to Jehovah? Did he enjoy talking to himself? How odd that would be...Jesus never claimed to be God.
TruthSeekingOne 1 year ago
@TruthSeekingOne
You see, Beloved, if you have My Son in your heart and know Him, you know Me. You have access to all I am and all I have. He is the personification of who I am. If you have seen Him you have seen Me, your heavenly Father, for I am in Him and He is in Me. He, Himself said, “Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father “(John 14:6-9, John 14:19-21). .
imissnepal 1 year ago
TruthSeekingOne he did many many many times, ditch the cult and get a real bible
glowplug007 11 months ago
6:51 says it all
OriginalJoseyWales 1 year ago
And ill go on record as firmly not believing in trinity. Also stating we dont pick and choose what we believe in the bible.. correct hammer you would do well to heed your own words.
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@tdoa100 Amen ... Thank you ... I couldn't put the words together as well as you have done.
hammerogod 1 year ago
I think I need to go on record again as a firm believer in the concept of the Trinity. I don't fully understand how Three unique individual entities can be One unique entity but I do know that Jesus clearly said the He and the Father were "One". What Jesus said trumps the thoughts of men. If the Scriptures said it then I accept it. Just like I accept that Jesus paid for my sins. We don't pick and choose what we believe in the Bible. We believe it all or it's just words on paper.
hammerogod 1 year ago
Comment removed
hammerogod 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Many times I have set my "Logic" aside and just believed the Revealed Word of God. That is what Faith demands. I can use Reason and Logic but when they fail I can lean on the Word of God and know that even though I don't always get it that it makes sense to God.. We have the Holy Spirit and I have called upon that source many times but parts of Scripture MUST be believed using ONLY Faith. I am comfortable understanding what I understand. If I need more I believe God will provide it.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@tdoa100 Yes and if you'd read down id explained this..
thongdongalong 1 year ago
If God is love then God cannot live in isolation. In order for love to exist, there must be lover, a beloved and the love between them. If God were a solitary Person, there would have been no love apart from the creation of the world, making God dependent on the world for part of his very nature.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@mjr2168 God did not live in isolation before the world was made ... think 'Angels'. ... But I more or less agree that God made humanity to share His love. One of the attributes of God is His love so I can't necessarily agree that God needed mankind to make His love real. I still see some presumptive thinking in your post. You are still trying to read God's mind. All we know about God is what He has revealed about Himself through scripture. We cannot surmise about the nature of God beyond that.
hammerogod 1 year ago
Jesus said the He was the express image of God. Seeing the attitudes and behaviors of Jesus does give us more insight into God but we really still only have the Scriptures because Jesus Himself often used the Scriptures when describing God and God's Kingdom. Jesus refered back to the Prophets often when describing Heavenly things.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod There had to be a time when God lived in Isolation. When I say isolation I mean without his created beings and angels would be one of them. (John 1, in the beginning was the word, and the word was God), Does this cover my presumption.
We all know that God not only "SHOWS" Love but he "IS" (personification) of Love. For him to "SHOW" love he needs creation. For him to be" IS" Love, a godly expression of love, he needs to be a trinity (Lover, beloved and the fuit of Love).
mjr2168 1 year ago
@mjr2168
“Then God said, ‘Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth” (Genesis 1:26)
*** Most asked questions ever ***
#1 - "Why are we here?"
And
#2 - "Why did God create us??"
The simple answer to that question can only be: "We don't really know"
I suppose there must have been a period when the Godhead was 'Isolated' .
Your presumption was never extreme.
hammerogod 1 year ago
hammerogod 1 year ago
Biblical examples of these seeds of the holy trinity can be see in the Shema "Here O Isreal: The Lord our God is ONE Lord. There are two words in Hebrew for "one": "yachid", meaning the solitrary one. and "echad" which can suggest a unity of several parts eg husband and wife are one [echad] flesh. It is the word "echad" that is used in the Shema which hints the idea of the Trinity. The same expression we see in Gen 1:26, 11:7 "Let us go down" yet no one else comes down with God.
mjr2168 1 year ago
Just a brief word of warning about the "Trinity".
If you presume to try to understand it you will fail.
If you presume to try to understand the mind of God you will fail.
We have exactally one (1) choice.
We can believe what God said or not.
That is the only choice.
It is pure foolishness to attempt to understand God and/or the concept of a Trinity, Triune Godhead, 3 Persons in one.
We don't have the mental gear to get it.
God said it was the fact, it IS, therefore, the fact.
Period.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod Wait a minute, your saying God didn't want us to understand his word? Or have a relationship with him? God wanted even the uneducated to understand his word so if he did put any inclination in the scriptures of trinity then it wouldn't be too hard to grasp. :) How can someone have a relationship with God without Grasping what he is? God never said trinity was the fact and you are twisting his words.
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@thongdongalong God wanted and still wants us to BELIEVE what He told us. If you are asking if God wants us to understand things that are immeasurably far above our capacity for understanding then NO. It is pure presumption and arrogance to even begin to think we can understand the mind of God. He gave us enough details and instructions to get us through this life. We can't even agree and understand the basics, why would God give us more? We will have all of Eternity to catch on to the rest.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod That whole paragraph is flawed on the one hand your saying God would give us the basics ad we shouldn't think we should understand. So why then are you seeking to prove the trinity if god if God just wanted us to know the basics, something we can't understand shouldn't matter right as long as we have the basics. Yet trinitarians are tying there hardest to promote this belief and understand it.. Its FLAWED.. Its because it is not the word of God and it is mans added doctrine.
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@thongdongalong Even though you may think it is flawed I stand by it. We only partly understand what we have already been told about God. I strongly contend that we don't fully understand ALL of what is said in Scripture.. We cannot understand the mind of God beyond the Scripture and what was delivered by Jesus. For instance: If you can FULLY understand the discourse on the Mt of Olives or the imagery in the Revelation of John you are better than I am. Even Jesus called some things Mysteries.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod The council of Nicaea bought this doctrine in along with the idea of the cross WELL knowing that the word STAUROS was used by the early christians as a stake! Its all there if you research it. Oh and also they brought in idol worship which is clearly against Gods word. Funny how all the cross and idol worship go had in hand. These are teachings of MEN!!
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@thongdongalong John20: 25 Consequently the other disciples would say to him: “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them: “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will certainly not believe.”
So what up with the Plural (nails) for the hands.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@mjr2168 I don't get your question...
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@thongdongalong If He was crucified on a stake it would be a singular nail for the hands. " Unless i see in his hands the print of the nail (not nails).
mjr2168 1 year ago
@thongdongalong Admittedly that "Stauros" meant stake in Classical Greek. To which the JW's allude to. But the NT was written in Kione Greek, where "stauros" could mean both a stake and a cross.
Recent Archaeological discoveries have further disproved JW stance on the STAUROS concept. Please refer to"Anthropological Observations on the Skeletal Remains from Giv’at ha-Mivtar," written by N. Haas of the Department of Anatomy at Hebrew University. and the Paletine Cross.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@mjr2168 Actually it is widely known that the early christians stauros meant stake..
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@thongdongalong The legend of King Arthur and his round table is widely know, but that does not suffice as a fact of truth. Your defence of your statement on the doctrine of the trinity depends on the type of Greek used and the explanation of the two nails and not one as depicted in John 20:25.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@mjr2168 Pfffttt that was just a totally idiotic statement.. Anyway if anyone actually wants to have a serious conversation send me a message cause i don't have time for this...
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@thongdongalong If you Pfftttt the statement about the nails you are pffting against a verse from you own bible. If you are Pftting the argument on the Greek, it only shows how far you will go to seek the real truth. Remember truth was not an idea by it was a man.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@mjr2168 I meant the bit about the round table obviously... The Bible does not say whether his hands were nailed one on top of the other with a single nail through them both, or side by side with a separate nail through each. If the latter was the case, Thomas' remark could be understood as applying only to Jesus' hands.
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@mjr2168 There is, though, another possibility that cannot be ruled out. Many scholars believe that a nail or nails pierced Jesus' feet, fixing them to the post directly or to a small platform attached to the stake. Jesus himself may have referred to wounds in his hands and his feet on another occasion when he appeared to the disciples.
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@mjr2168 So as to convince them that he really was the resurrected Jesus, he said: "See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself." (Luke 24:39) Thomas did not specifically mention Jesus' feet. But his comment about "the print of the nails" may have included Christ's hands and feet, though only the hands were named.
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@mjr2168 The Arthurian tale was obviously an example to show the futility of you point of the stauros was a widely known concept. On the contrary a majority of the crucifixion depicted in art is on a regular cross. The second century graffitti of the Paletine Cross is a cross and not a stauros. (The Paletine cross was made by anti Christians ) excavation in the 20the century also show victims of cross crucifixion and not stake.
contd 3:10 1
mjr2168 1 year ago
contd 3:10 1
NWT John 20:25 Consequently the other disciples would say to him: “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them: “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will certainly not believe.”
I am not alluding to the feet, but to this verse from your bible, which clearly states
the unavoidable fact " the apostle wants to see the print of the nails in his hands"
contd 3:10 2
mjr2168 1 year ago
contd 3:10 2
The print of the nails, is what is referred to.
We know that in a Stauros crucifixion a single nail was used for the hands. A nail was pierced through the wrist of the crossed hands of the victim.
That verse does not refer to the feet at all, it clearly state "stick my finger into the print of the "nails". And it is only on a conventional cross where two nails are used to pin the victim down on a cross beam.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@thongdongalong The legend of King Arthur and his round table is widely know, but that does not suffice as a fact of truth. Your defence of your statement on the doctrine of the trinity depends on the type of Greek used and the explanation of why two nails and not one as depicted in John 20:25. If he was crucified on a stake they would have used one nail not two.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@thongdongalong The Concil of Nicaea, ratiifed the doctrine of the TRINITY, It did not develop the doctrine. The doctrine of the trinity existed right from the Penticost room. It is seem clearly in the writings of the Early Church Fathers and by the time it hit Nicaea it was well developed, historically, theologically and philosophically along with the hypostatic union.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@thongdongalong The Council of Nicea only "Ratified" the concept of the "Trinity", they didn't manufacture it. It was already an established and accepted concept.
And
Roman "Crucifixions" were called "Crucifixions" because the thing they used was "Cruciform" (crossed posts)
They were called "Crucifixions" from before the time of Christ.
Death by being impaled is nearly as old as mankind.
The Romans used it commonly but not on 'Stakes" during the time of Christ.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod Jer 23:14 14 And in the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen horrible things, committing adultery and walking in falsehood; and they have strengthened the hands of evildoers in order that they should not return, each one from his own badness. To me all of them have become like Sod´om, and the inhabitants of her like Go·mor´rah.”
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@thongdongalong Yes. The world is full of evil and has been since Adam and Eve. Jesus came to bring the Kingdom of God. He died to save us. He completed the Law and set us free from God's wrath. We can't do anything except Believe and Obey. God's word say that The "Father" the "Son" and the "Holy Spirit" are one and equal. Using the word "Trinity" is just wordplay and does not begin to describe what is REALLY happening in Heavenly Places. The word is used to describe the undescribable
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod No the trinity is used to describe the relationship between God Almighty, Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit. You just spouting jibber jabber now.
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@thongdongalong Like I said, it's just a word. Words have meaning. We use words to describe things. The problems begin when a word means different things to different people. The simple word "Trinity" means "Three". I refuse to get caught up in useless conflicts about semantics. I KNOW what it means to me and that is all that counts. Millions of people happen to think it means the same thing I do, but that doesn't change anything. You can call Chocolate "Horseshoe" but it's still Chocolate.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod If God is love, and we all know that God is love, he cannot have any other nature but that of a triune one. If God is love then God cannot live in isolation. In order for love to exist, there must be lover, a beloved and the love between them. If God were a solitary Person, there would have been no love apart from the creation of the world, making God dependent on the world for part of his very nature. God cannot be dependent on the world for his essence of love.
contd 27:09:1
mjr2168 1 year ago
contd 27:09 1
That is why we see a plurality in the Godhead. So that this" IS love" concept can perputuate within the trinity independent of "SHOWING LOVE" to his creation. The important thing to remember is God IS love, and love needs persons within the Godhead independent of the love of his creation to maintain this devine love.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@hammerogod The word trinity does not mean Three. Tri mean three. Trinity means tri- unitiy. It has a definite theological meaning and is not left up to private interpretations. It belong to the part of theology called Progressive Revelations". Words have different meaning, sure. But the appropriate meaning of the word is contextual and what the user of the word tends to mean. In the same vane of things Trinity mean triune, triunity, Three persons in one being and nothing else.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@thongdongalong Yes the Trinity is a real and living concept the ultimate truth drawn out of a number of truths depicted both in the NT and th OT. No it is not used to describe the relations between three beings, but it is used to define God as one devine Being, who subsist in three devine persons, know as the father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is mystery in the strict theological sense and not in the incomprehensible sense.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@hammerogod Can you please state scriptures when making this argument please. And try not have to bend the words here and there to get the trinity to fit in please. :)
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@thongdongalong
The doctrine of the Trinity is encapsulated in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
hammerogod 1 year ago
The parallelism of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit is not unique to Matthew’s Gospel, but appears elsewhere in the New Testament (e.g., 2 Cor. 13:14, Heb. 9:14), as well as in the writings of the earliest Christians. the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are three divine persons who are one divine being (God).
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod So if jesus was ALMIGHTY GOD why is amlighty god in original hebrew YWHW. That is there in the original hebrew scriptures. 14 The undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the sharing in the holy spirit be with all of YOU.< that doesnt show they are the one.. Its talking about the love of the lord jesus and the love of God. Two seperate beings.
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@thongdongalong I don't fully understand the "Trinity".I have already said that. I really don't fully understand it. I accept God's word that The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are part of the Godhead and Jesus was comfortable with being called "My Lord and my God". When I stand before Jesus I will ask Him what the "Trinity" thing was about. Until then I will Worship Jesus as God and pray in His name. I don't have to understand it. I just have to do as God said and obey. It's not hard.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod 14 how much more will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works that we may render sacred service to [the] living God? He offered himself to God, just proves my point even more. Would you offer yourself to yourself?
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@hammerogod Because the holy spirit is used as gods active force to do his will, you can only reach the father through jesus. If he was the one being hor entity it wouldn't be neccessary to say the father the son and the holy spirit would it.
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@thongdongalong
If you accuse me of bending words again I will make it my life's work to show you where your Founder (Charles Taze Russell) made vast changes in the Word of God for his own selfish purposes.
Russell created his own version of the Bible and changed important Concepts and Contexts.
His version of the Bible is a mess when it addresses the Diety and Nature of Jesus.
If you want to turn this into something ugly just challenge me to make The Watchtower Societly look stupid.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod Haha im well aware of the phrophecies etc that were wrong. The path is getting lighter and lighter. As it says in the bible. The watchtower society is still being used today by God, but, this will change but when God wants it too. ehovah did not foresake Judah until the Chaldeans invaded. He put up with their hypocrisy and apostasy for a long time. But then, suddenly, they were broken. Can i ask funnily enough i do not know what faith you are.
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@thongdongalong
"Can i ask funnily enough i do not know what faith you are."
You are asking me what my "Denomination" is and it's none of your business.
But I will tell you anyway... I Grew up Catholic. I left the RCC because many of the Doctrines were not Biblical. I joined the Baptists but left when I discovered that the Southern Baptist Convention was and is Racist. I now attend and worship in a Fellowship that actually reads the Scriptures and thinks. I am only affiliated with Jesus.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod Sometime I wonder how ex Catholic can say such things. The very base of Christianity is the doctrine of the Trinity which was burnt and forged in the Catholic Church. The very thought of this brought me to the Catholic Church. Even now in the 21st Century to get real deep in the trinity, you have to go to Catholic Writers and theologians. For me the only doctrine that kept me way was the Doctrine of Authority nothing else. The choice was to be my own Pope or not.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@mjr2168
The Doctrines (Dogmas) that pushed me away from the RCC was the status of Mary (Jesus' Mother), the veneration of the 'Saints, sales of 'Indulgences' and 'Papal 'Infallability'.
Mary has no special status.
She is not the "co-redeemtrix" (though this is widely accepted as Dogma).
Both Peter and Paul referred to the 'Believers' as "Saints" so no particular personage deserves additional reverence.
You already know about the 'Indulgences' I suppose (?)
The Pope is just a Man.
hammerogod 1 year ago
Additionally:
I was a Catholic of Catholics.
I was a true believer from Christening 'til someone showed me the Gospel without a Catholic slant. (approx 20 yrs).
I attended Catholic Kindergarten, Catholic Grade School and Catholic High School.
Mass 5 days a week and Communion at every Mass.
I was a 'to the bone' Catholic until I found out that Salvation didn't rely on anyone except Jesus.
The Pope played no role nor did the Priests or Bishops or Cardinals.
Jesus only.
Good enough for me.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod There cannot be a Catholic Slant in the Bible. The Bible belongs to the Catholic Church. It was read in its complete form for 1400 years. The First slant began with Luther and now has millions of slants.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@mjr2168 oh please... the bible is an independant work.. it does not belong to any religion.. if you really think so i would like you to prove it
tehCRITIZIZER 1 year ago
@tehCRITIZIZER The canon of the bible, was a decision of the Catholic Church, harshed out through the 200 years after Christ and foramalised at Trent and at the fourth century councils at Hippo and Carthage
mjr2168 1 year ago
@mjr2168 1: the bible consists of both the new AND the old testament.. the old testament may have been claimed and used by the catholic church but they are not the original "owners" of that scripture.
2: what is now the orthodox church and the catholic church was at that time still one and therefore renders any claims of being "the original church" mute.. also the creed of nicea (which is the one i assume you are reffering to) is used by just about all christian religions..
tehCRITIZIZER 1 year ago
@hammerogod No where do you find the Catholic Church calling the Pope anything but a Man. The Pope is the successor of Peter and if Peter was just a man why would you assume the Pope is something more. This is a common misconception, Why would you think such a thing.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@mjr2168
The "Folklore" that a Catholic child hears about the Pope FAR transcends simple misconceptions.
As a Catholic you know this so why are you even asking?
From age 7 I was taught out of a Catechism and carried a Missal, never a Bible.
As a rule we were not encouraged to read the Bible.
I was a child saturated with 'Traditions' and 'Folklore' by Nuns
Not my fault, I was just a kid.
Whatever Gospel we got was in small slices on Sunday mornings (badly)
Things may have changed since then.
hammerogod 1 year ago
As a 20 yr old man in Vietnam I heard the complete Gospel of Salvation by Grace (and Grace alone) for the FIRST time.
After growing up in a massive, organized, disciplined, wealthy, worldwide, established church I was hearing the Gospel of Grace (the REAL good news) for the FIRST time from a 20 yr old who grew up as a Protestant, one of the people we were taught to pity because they were Pagans.
I bear no enmity towards the Catholics.
But they failed me.
Sorry, the truth sometimes is a bitch.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod Regarding the misconception of not being allowed to read the bible, the Church did not encourage the self interpretation of the Bible, the dangers of which warned by Peter is manifest in Protestantism, where you have the bible interpreted in impunity so much so there are so many denomination all touting there own vesion of intepretation. I avoided the interpretation of one authority only to find myself subjected to thousands.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@hammerogod Maybe you misconception grew out of the traditions you were brought up in. However the Cathecism and the Missal are very biblical and many Protestant faith still have their version of Cathecism and Missal that they follow defined or not. I grew up in a mixed Christian Faith and I am aware of the tradition that protestant have, but are afraid to define. The selected verse do exist in the protestant faith too.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@hammerogod You will sure agree with me when I say Catholics indeed believe that the death of Jesus Christ is all sufficient for the salvation of our sins. But I am not sure whether you will agree that humans can co operate with God and need to respond to God's grace to be effective in our lives. This cooperation with God is not just for our individual salvation. We are called to identify with Christ (Peter calls himself co-worker with Christ and he is crucified with Christ).
contd 1
mjr2168 1 year ago
hammerogod 1 year ago
@mjr2168
"Catholics indeed believe that the death of Jesus Christ is all sufficient for the salvation of our sins. "
Yes!
Except for the concept of Purgatory I know the Gospel of Grace is currently intact in the RCC.
What is the current teaching on Purgatory and how do you feel about it?
Have you read the entire Apocrypha" How do you feel about it?
Remember, you ARE talking to a friend.
I truly want to know where the Catholics are now.
*thinking about rejoining*
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod
Although it took me some time to figure out Purgatory. I believed in it because I believe in the infalliblity of the Churh and its teaching. Purgatory is Biblically based. I have followed both sides of the arguement. Most protestant misunderstand it, thinking it as a second chance place. For me it is a clean up stop before you go to meet the Big Big Cheese.
mjr2168 1 year ago
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod The late Archbishop Fulton Sheen once said, "There are not even 100 people in this country who hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they think the Catholic Church to be."
This statement is so true for the world today. Anyway all the best. I hope God give you the faith you need to return back to the loving arms of Mother Church. Dont foget to get hold of that Book I mention. would love your feedback when you do. G'Day Mate.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@hammerogod I have read bits and pieces of the deuterocanonical books, The most I enjoy are the Wisdom book, they are good for a read, even if you dont feel them as inspired. They are really good. It would be great to come back home. Read this book by Scott and Kimberley Hahn Rome Sweet Home. That book got me on track.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@hammerogod Oh and the WBTS is only a guidance to us which God has used to channel his word down, I am building my personal relationship with God not with man. And once God forsakes the WBTS i will be ready.
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@thongdongalong "And once God forsakes the WBTS i will be ready"
Works for me.
hammerogod 1 year ago
you have decieved yourself my brother, just like eve was fooled.
dumma77 1 year ago
i think you know all these things but delibretely you have chosen to confuse rightly disposed individuals who call to this program and of course who listens to you.
pickerpiker 1 year ago
when i meet people who believe in trinity, i must say i'm happy and guess what i dont wait for them to show me what they have as prove that the whole bible is wrong with the false reasoning of trinity. i explain it to them even before they can come up with it. The holy bible says God exalted "Jesus to a superior position". after his ascesion to heaven. how would you explain that. Would you say that God exalted himself to a superior position after he came to the earth as a man?
pickerpiker 1 year ago
@pickerpiker "The holy bible says God exalted "Jesus to a superior position". after his ascesion to heaven."
"how would you explain that?"
John 17:5
K.J.V.
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
A.S.B.
"Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
N.I.V.
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod would this be ur explanation of "Jesus being exalted by God to a SUPERIOR position? come on! are u kidding me?? Jesus of course shared glory with his father in the heaven, which is by far greater than that of a man he was when he was on earth. but the point of emphasis is on SUPERIOR POSITION. Was God almighty exalted to a superior position by your own understanding? if so by whom? please feel free to respond
shessme 1 year ago
@shessme Jesus is clearly asking that He be RETURNED to the Glory He had before the "Incarnation". He was not asking to be exalted for the first time. He was asking to be RETURNED to the position He ALWAYS had. My feeling is that Jesus prayed for our sakes, just so we would have documentation. I am pretty sure that the intent of the Father was always to have the Son seated AGAIN at His right hand. Now if anyone understands this better you can ask them. I can only provide what Jesus said.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod you haven't answered my question, ...," intent of the Father was always to have the Son seated AGAIN at His right hand"... who is the father, and who is d son?.matthew 28:18 jesus said after his resurection before he left the earth , All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth. who gave him this authority? in addition pls read daniel 7:13 there the son of man was brought before SOMEONE in the heavens . my question is who is that SOMEONE and who is the son of man?
shessme 1 year ago
hammerogod 1 year ago
at 8:18 you quoted where thomas called jesus my God. Jesus ealier on dt same chapter had told his disciple dt he was ascending 2 his GOD and ur GOD. So clearly thomas did not contradict that statement by Jesus. Thomas could rightly refer 2 jesus as my God, d same way angels sent by God in d past are addressed as God becos they are God representatives(Judges 2:1-5; 6:11-15; 13:20-22.) if u read john20:28 downwards it says all these is written that u may believe dt jesus is d SON of GOD.
pickerpiker 1 year ago
Min 7 it is said that no one ever shared the love of Christ - Gospel. I am sure the speaker means well. I have heard many say the same. But I wonder on this. I have had the experience of seeing a JW read the BIble verse but not see that it says the opposite to the WT and even when time is given to the verse still not able to take in what they read. I think that it is possible that someone did share the Gospel with the JW but s/he was not able to take in what was being said.
napsuta 1 year ago
christians rock...but only God knows what the hell johovahs are....a cult maybe...?
candyandi28 1 year ago
@candyandi28 Nah. They're confused. Technically all religions are cults by definition, they're man made. I grew up a witness but I'm borderline agnostic now.
spucy 1 year ago
Jesus said no one comes to the father except through me
Brotherfireball1988 1 year ago
thank you so much for posting this, what a great help i have a good friend being pulled into jw from family and friends. and i had know idea how and what they believe, wow i am praying for my friend to be saved.
rick91chevy 1 year ago
@rick91chevy Obviously he shown a bit more intelligence than you, hes obviously not taken the word of people on the internet who distort facts.
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@thongdongalong LOL, funny guy hun? there is more to life then your opinion! What church do you go to ???????
rick91chevy 1 year ago
@rick91chevy funny guy that almost sounds like ur a wise guy gangster outta a movie.. put em upppp put em upppp. haha. And the same goes for you you are saying your praying for him he doesnt need your prayers.. you need his. :) and a bit of his intellect aswell.. :) agape
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@thongdongalong sounds like your out of a movie you live in, (Wizard of oz) haha. Are you a Jehovah witness? you sound full of your self, then you end your sentence with(agape). So again you opinion is yours, my intellect is not of your concern or for you judgment, you need to show respect, and find yourself! Romans 8:28 look it up.
peace
rick91chevy 1 year ago
@rick91chevy So its okay to slate people but you don't like it back.. hmmmm, most weak minded people are like that. Im only human, i try to love my enemy but it is hard sometimes. Stop blabbing scriptures to make yourself look cool, you took one look at this video and thought it was right. Probably aint done a bit of research into the scriptures. Funny that i've been showing plenty respect to people that don't talk garbage even thought they maybe don't agree with me.
thongdongalong 1 year ago
@thongdongalong ok so your a JW, i guess, you are raised in this church? my post was not to you, but for all aside, me learning about there beliefs. You on the other hand, have way to much time, offending people, you don't agree with. you speak of agape, but your name is thongdongalong????? common. Then you call Scripture babel. No offense but your all over the board! You speak of intellect, and respect, i don't see that from you? Whats up with you post about pour gas on your self,match?GB
rick91chevy 1 year ago
The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.
hi
kimanaan 1 year ago
I sure as heck don't want to go to heaven!
I want paradise earth...
SmalltimR 1 year ago
I know jehovah's witnesses and this man is full of crap!!! LIAR !!!!
lavellove1 1 year ago
If salvation is assured in the Bible Please explain: 1Co 9:27 I harden my body with blows and bring it under complete control, to keep myself from being disqualified after having called others to the contest.Heb 4:1 Now, God has offered us the promise that we may receive that rest he spoke about. Let us take care, then, that none of you will be found to have failed to receive that promised rest.
mjr2168 1 year ago
1 Tim 5:21 The Church is the foundation and pillar of truth. It is the Church not the Bible which is the foundation and the pillar of truth. The Church that gave us the Bible, the Church that gave us the doctrine of the Trinity, ie the Roman Catholic Church.
mjr2168 1 year ago
good works dont cut it!
pureinheart777 1 year ago
@pureinheart777 Faith alone does'nt cut it either. Faith and works. Its all over the Bible, youve got to take off those Luther glasses. The Bible belongs to the Catholic church, so in other words the bible will not contradict the teaching of the Catholic Church. The doctrine that you base you whole faith in ie The doctrine of the Trinity is a doctrine of the RCC.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@mjr2168
(Romans 3:20-28) "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. {21} But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; {22} Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: {23} For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
hammerogod 1 year ago
{24} Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: {25} Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; {26} To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
hammerogod 1 year ago
{27} Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. {28} Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
hammerogod 1 year ago
So I would humbly submit that Faith does, indeed, "Cut It?.
Any Doctrine that denies these words of Paul's in Romans chapter 3 are simply Heresy.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod One problem at a time. You seem to be quite knowing. Could you start with I Tim 3:15. Ex protestant tell me that once you get you head around that. The Bilbe looks a whole lot different. Secondly they say why bikker with the simple things when they have got the trinity right.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@mjr2168 1 Tim 3: 1-13 discusses the role and attributes of 'Church' leadership. It outlines roles and criteria for local Ministery. Paul was not sure how long it would be until he could personally visit so he sent these instructions ahead of time.
The Biblical definition of "Church" has never been a building it has always been the people.
Paul was giving an established group ('Church') detailed instructions.
1 Tim 3:16 has a lot of impact.
It's one of the strongest passages in Scripture.
hammerogod 1 year ago
@hammerogod: I think 1Tim 3:15 puts Solar Scriptura to rest, by making the Church the Pillar and foundation of truth and not the bible. Because the verse begs the question what was the church doing for the first 300 years without the Bible. What is you input.
mjr2168 1 year ago
@hammerogod Romans is about the Judiaisers, those Guys who wanted the new convert to become jews first and undergo all the Jews rites of circumcision etc. Paul is talk about all the dead laws and works which mean nothing in the New Covenant. If this is not the case then there is a clash with your quotes and James 2:24. Jas 2:24 You see, then, that it is by our actions that we are put right with God, and not by our faith alone. Thee only place you find alone used and in the negative.
mjr2168 1 year ago
There is nothing wrong with people having faith, Dumb asses.
Now, go and get a real job at @CravenArmsEchurch.
FilmNoirEmilie 1 year ago
Comment removed
hammerogod 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@FilmNoirEmilie
@FilmNoirEmilie Is it ok to have Faith if that Faith is in killing Kittens?
Just askin'
Faith in something that is destructive is destructive.
Faith in something that is false is hopeless.
Faith that does not answer directally to God is vanity.
This is not Rocket Science.
hammerogod 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Why would God who speaks about keeping the eye simple say seek and you will find what ever you ask in my name?
its becoming incredibly complicated for the simple eye Why is it so complicated to say the name of God YHWH so why does not God himself just make all these things plain and clear so there would be no confusion think about it ...why are people arguing amongst themselves and why is there so much confusion
archeng123 1 year ago
I do not believe that we should judge those in the JW organization either. It is only God whom should judge, in my opinion. I am judged for not remaining in the organization; however, I will not do the same to them. I know they are sincere, but simply misled.
inspirediam 1 year ago
@inspirediam
WELL PUT, SENCERE & TO THE POINT WITHOUT HATE, LOVED YOUR COMMENT
juanitamorrisbraden 1 year ago
@inspirediam
"For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is goodness, righteousness, and truth), finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them." Ephesians 5:8-11
We are called to display a high level of Discernment.
Pointing out errors is Biblical.
Don't hate, present truth.
"Truth" has a power of it's own.
Let the Holy Spirit work.
hammerogod 1 year ago
Yes, if anyone reads literature from reading literature that is critical of the societies viewpoint. And, yes, if the faith is the "truth", why would that be?
inspirediam 1 year ago
Comment removed
overkilljoybassguy 2 years ago
No he is not. I can tell you first hand that his experience was genuine and true.
inspirediam 1 year ago
why is he a liar? good luck with leaving JW.
snookerjam 1 year ago
What exactly is he lying about?
rhymeskill 1 year ago
You don't even have to be a Jehovah's Witness to get paradise earth.
If you follow the bible and do the commandments you can be assured you're going.
God says we can find salvation "through Jesus"
Natashaaaaaaaa 2 years ago 4
@Natashaaaaaaaa And you have no evidence to support that. that's why you aren't gaining salvation
WUYAR 1 year ago
God never created a "Religion", He created a "Relationship" ... all "Religions" are man-made ... One God, One Faith ... without Faith no amount of Rites and Rules and Laws and Rituals and Practices have any value ... without the simple acceptance of God's free gift of Salvation through Christ (a one on one relationship) then nothing else matters.
hammerogod 2 years ago 5
Amen.
rhymeskill 1 year ago
@hammerogod Amen. Very well said.
DeeStinger1 1 year ago
Bernhard Lohse says in A Short History of Christian Doctrine: “As far as the New Testament is concerned, one does not find in it an actual doctrine of the Trinity.”
kimanaan 1 year ago