pashto che sigheye!!! koni kos khole madar jende, ...
(man sanandaji hastam) koni to ke sale babatam nemitone saresho bokhore dari vase man gardan kolofti mikoni kiram to kose khahare harchi afghaniye , khar nane kosdeh madareto khosh khosh gaidam, khareto gaidam
Ai ma haman tukhme palid ke PADAR tu bashad sar khar savar shgavam tu zane ENGLIS va ARAB chykha koni bachia tu IRANI niesti tu az tukhme AHRIMAN asti ,koni bachia tu chi goh mekhori dai in safha,berav va madare ARABZADAIE khod ra nejat byde piesh az in ke ma Irani ha savorash shavem,
boro koneto be amricaiha bede afghaniye koni, to ba on lahjeye tokhmit migi irani hasti, hahahha,akhe tablo chi behet begam, badam age to irani hasti balaye in video neveshte afghanestan va khandedar injast dare ostore haye irano neshon mide ,loool.
@JohnTheAriahi , be tarikh ke mirese irani hastin na? akhe marde momen man azat mikham beri ye sar bezani be video hai ke ham mihananet to youtube gozoshtan boro bebin che tohinai be irani ha kardan,ghasame abas ya dombe khoroso bavar konim mashti?
Again my comments are regarding the tajik population of Uzbekistan. I don't frankly care what uzbek think their ancestors are. in every neutral human right report i read it says uzbek government is supressing and underestimating the number of tajiks. when you don't even accept what is happening today I don't see a point arguing with you over what happen to Iranians of central asia 1000 yrs ago.
I don't accept what you claim is happening today is because majority of Uzbekistani government is Samarqandi Tajik. President Islam Karimov is Tajik. Moreover, he is "Ironi". In our country "Ironis" are descendants of Shia Persian slaves sold on markets of Bukhara by Turkmen raiders. They are Iranian and speak the Iranian as their native language. So, Karimov is Ironi, and the man who brought him to power Ismoil Jurabekov is also Irone, from the same mahalla Karimov grew up in.
Islam Karimov's father was Ironi man named Abdulghani, and his mother was a Tajik woman named Sanobar. Both were native of Samarqand. Other Tajiks that occupy key power positions in Uzbekistan are: Buritosh Mustafoyev - Attorney General, Fayzullo Mullojonov - head of Central Bank, Polvon-Zadeh - Minister of the Interior. It is the men of Tajik Mustafoyev who send political activists to prison, and men of Tajik Polvon-Zadeh who dip them into boiling water, at the orders of Tajik Karimov.
I am not even talking about Mullojonov's Central Bank that has a lot to do with money laundering. I did not yet mention that Ismoil Jurabekov - head of Samarqandi Tajik clan that rules Uzbekistan is a known drug smuggler. Orders to arrest him are issued by the European Union.
Uzbekistan that during Soviet rule was the richest and most advanced republic of Central Asia when it was ruled by predominantly Uzbek Farghoni, Tashkent and Jizzakh clans, have turned into economic wreck after 19 years of Tajik rule. Even under Soviet regime neither local Uzbek rulers or big shots in Moscow boiled people alive. Our regime of today does it. When the president is Tajik, Attorney General is Tajik, and chief of police and all prisons is Tajik. Hmm...
So, the answer to your question why is Tajik language and culture are being suppressed in Uzbekistan my answer is: "I don't know." I really don't know and refuse to understand why would Tajik rulers of Uzbekistan suppress their own people. Note, that under Uzbek rule the oldest Tajik language newspaper in Central Asia - Bukhoroi Sharif existed for almost a century. And it was shut down under Tajik Karimov.
As far as you telling me about Turkish brutality, I don't care if Turks were brutal. I am not a Turk. I am Uzbek. Turks live in Turkey. Uzbeks of today are descendants of local, ancient Iranian population and Turkic nomads that arrived later. It can be proven just by looking at us. Sure, Afghan Uzbeks look more Mongol than we are. But in Uzbekistan majority of Uzbeks and Tajiks look alike. There are Uzbeks with predominantly Iranian features, and there are Tajiks who have some Mongol features.
Before the Soviets divided Central Asia into modern republics we did not divide ourselves based on ethnicity. We divided ourselves based on lifestyle. City population was known as Sarts. We had Sarts who spoke Persian in Bukhara and Samarqand. And we had Sarts who spoke Turkic in Tashkent, Khwarezm, Andijan, Margilan, Kokand, Namangan. Racially and culturally they were the same. The only difference was the language. And there were nomads - some Uzbeks, Kipchaks, Kazakhs, Naimans, Kigrhiz etc.
Those nomads probably the only full blooded Turkic population here. They looked Mongol. And we also had Tajik highlanders who probably were the only fool blooded Iranian population here. They looked more Persian than Iranian-speaking Sarts of the cities. So, when the Soviets divided Central Asia they forcefully divided some of us and forced some to register as others. For example, many semi-nomadic Mongol looking tribes were registered as Uzbeks. Some Turkic speaking people as Tajiks.
They also divided Sarts into Uzbeks and Tajiks. Most Turkic speaking Sarts never called themselves Uzbek. Uzbeks originally were a small confederation of Turkic-Mongol tribes that conquered Central Asia. When they arrived here, they founded their own ruling dynasties. It was the Soviets who forcefully registered all of Central Asian Turkic speaking population as Uzbeks.
In areas like Samarqand and Bukhara were Sarts spoke both Persian and Uzbeks, a lot of Sarts had trouble identifying themselves. Many did not know if they should be registered as Tajiks or Uzbeks. For example, a great Bukharan writer Sadriddin Ayni became a Tajik. His fellow Bukharan writer Fitrat became Uzbek, and a Pan-Turkist. Bukharan Fayzulla Khojaev became a first leader of Soviet Uzbekistan. And poet Abdulvohid Munzim became Tajik. Even though ethnically all of them were the same.
My grandfather, who worked as a clerk in one of Soviet institutions in 1930's used to tell us that most peasants and many officials when filling up official forms would leave the section that asks about ethnicity blank. In reality, how could you divide the people of Bukhara. We had Turkic and Tajik speaking Sarts living in the same area. Tajik highlanders and Arabic herders, Kipchak and Barlas nomads, and Uzbek aristocracy, descendants of Persian Slaves and the Gypsy Luli people.
All this salad of ethnic groups was forcefully registered either as Uzbeks or Tajiks. So, it is not the question if some of the cities belong to Tajikistan or Uzbekistan, because both countries are artificial creations of the Soviet regime. So is Turkmenistan, with over a million Uzbeks forcefully registered as Turkmens. And Kazakhstan with all southern Sart populated cites, that have nothing to do with Kazakh nomads. And Kyrgyzstan with Kipchak people forced to call themselves Kyrgyz.
That is why the Kurds of Turkey (and when I say Kurds I mean Kurds who consider themselves Kurds, not Turks with Kurdish ancestors) refuse to be considered Mountain Turks. That is why Tajiks of Samarqand and Bukhara insist that they are Tajik even if their birth certificates say that they are Uzbek. Politicians can't change one's ethnic group (well, they can on paper). Ethnicity can change, but it happens over centuries.
So, as far as you insisting that 45% of Uzbekistani population is Tajik. It is not so. It may be that 45% of Uzbekistani population had Tajik ancestors. It is very much possible. The question is, what percentage consider themselves Tajik today? Answer: about 10%. Tell the rest that they are Tajik and they will resist. The rest speak Uzbek as a mother tongue. Not because Soviets forced them to. If Soviets could force it then people of Bukhara and Samarqand would've been speaking Uzbek today.
And considering the movement of population and foundation of numerous new cities and towns during the Soviet era it is virtually impossible to determine who of the people living in those towns had Tajik or Uzbek ancestors centuries ago. It is just the way it is.
I have been always for facts and I know you are a good guy just in opposite side with me for one or another reason! Still, I respect you very much! Though, I think, you need to read more on history! We have much more in common as you think! Speaking on Kurds in Turkey, just by looking at my profile, you will see I have been always a supporter! It is not a matter of PAN-... but self determination and culture!
They have right to decide for themselves and yet, I see gain in them since they are highly devoted to their ancestor's identity! Watch Resu! Love and respect!
QoziKalon, Tell me, in your opinion, the language is the only factor to distinguish a nation? Come on my friend! You are not that fool to say that! Don't forget the facts! You try to play POLITIC with my statements but I never care about POLITICS! FACTS AND SCIENCES are my love! What about you? Did you sell your soul as I believe?
The language does not distinguish one's ethnicity or racial background. For example, when we say Turkic or Iranian ethnic groups today we only mean a linguistic generalization. Turkic includes Anatolian Turks (who are mostly of Greek and Kurdish origin) and Azeris who have more Iranian blood than Turkic and Mongoloid Yakuts of Siberia. So does Iranian group include Persians who are Aryan and Hazaras who are Mongol. That is why both Pan-Turkic and Pan-Iranian ideas are wrong.
They're both wrong because they preach unity of particular ethnic groups simply because they speak similar language. But language is a part of culture, not blood. Ethnic groups are prone to cultural influence. That's how Hazaras end up speaking Farsi and Greeks of Anatolia turn Turkish. If we follow the same logic than the French and black population of Haiti are the same just because both speak French language) That's why I am not a pan-Turkist. Because all these Pan-ethnic ideas make no sense.
Yet another mis-representation! It is so suspicious to me one simple facts about your stat3ements! Why you always try to HIGHLIGHT all but the truth! Greek, yes, Armenian, yes, Azari, yes, BUT, never Persian! THOUGH, did you you know all of these ETNICITIES are consider a branch of Aryan's? Come on! Fact the fact and stop non-sense!
Aryan and Persian is not the same thing. All Persians are Aryan. But not all Aryan are Persian. Russians are Aryan. Are they Persian? I say Armenian, Azari, Greek, because that's what they are. Aryan? Yes. But being Armenian, Azari or Greek is more important for them. I am first of all Uzbek, and only then Turkic or Aryan (I have both bloods in me). One of my best friends is first of all Russian, and only then Slavic, and only after that Aryan.
Sometimes you surprise me too much! Probably you drunk over the limit!
How did you get to such a conclusion and when did I state something to make you so?
Okay! Since you try to be hypocritical, I should respond you accordingly! Fact is, if you go back to history, Europe was hardly LIVEABLE for a Culture to NOURISH over 3000 years ago! Avesta is the ROOT Language for all ARYAN whether you like it or not!
Hey, I agree that Avesta is a root language for all Aryan. But it does not change the fact that being a Russian is more important for a Russian than being an Aryan. Fur Uzbeks it is more important that they are Uzbeks than that they are Turkic. That's just the way it is. It's not hatred. And dear friend, I am not saying that professor Frys is wrong (though, no one is perfect). His theory may be right, but try convincing a peasant that professor is right.
To to go further, you need to OPEN your heart! Why to much haters in your heart? Just read Gathaha once before judging any one! It is all about LOVE! Not seperation not Selfishness, Not Arrogance! Life is all about fighting between Devil and GOOD! It is all your choice which one to choose!
Talking about Aryan, you will know the word was used first in Avesta! This is all about NOBLE Mind not the race!
QoziKalon, I expected more than that! Trying hard to PRETEND FAIR? You don't need to pretend, just state what you really thing! At least once in your life!
Talking about AQNATOLIAN, including all but Persian? You can be kidding here! Reading history is that difficult?
But that's only scientific part of it. There is also another important factor - The People. If the people consider themselves a part of one ethnic group you can tell them all the facts about their far away ancestors trying to prove them that they are not who they consider themselves. It won't change a thing. People of Greece will still consider themselves Greek even though they are Slavs who adapted the language and Greeks of Anatolia will insist that they are Turkish.
Chances of todays Greeks identifying themselves as Slavs are also next to nill. So, I agree that many of Uzbeks have Iranian blood and got Turkified later. But do I believe that they can start identifying themselves as Tajiks? No. Because they are not Tajiks. They are a result of mixture of several ethnic groups, of both Iranian and Turkic origin.
Agin Qozi! It doesn't matter what the subjects (COMMONS) think. The intellectuals just focus on facts! Wake up my friend! You know I respect you very much but should you respect yourself more?
What the subjects (commons) think does matter. Intellectuals can claim whatever they want to claim. Intellectual can bring all researches to an Uzbek peasant from Samarqand suburb trying to convince him that he is really Tajik. But the peasant will stay Uzbek, and will not start learning Farsi to restore his heritage.
Over time I know, I trust you more that that! How can you accuse a RESEARCHER like Professor Frys, the father of Eastern Study in USA to be so cheap to end up to just a PEASANT in Samarqand? This is not you! I trusted more than that, my dear friend!
its not only intellectuals,politicians & human right groups such as Amnesty International who have been yelling out that Uzbek government has underestimated the number of Persian speaking Tajiks in that country.None of us here really care if Uzbeks want to restore Persian language or not,personally I think whoever was stupid enough to abondon their Persian language & its glory to a langauge spread around by a savage army& now is proudly dissing their Persian heritage BETTER NOT COME BACK TO US.
That is exactly why it is not going to happen. Unification of Central Asia under the idea of Persian cultural unity will not happen until Persians learn not to view their neighbors as savage army. Your heritage is dear to you. Our Iranian heritage of our Soghdian and Khorezmian ancestors is also dear to us. So is our Turkic heritage. How can we praise our mother and defy our father? We are who we are. Peace.
Soghdian & Khorazmian? I was under the impression that Mangol & Tatar army cleansed Khazarzm & Soghdia from alive creatures, including humans? how can your Iranian heritage be of them, since they were all killed?
Whatever you think Uzbek heritage is doesn't conern me. You keep yours & we keep ours. Our neighbouring countries will always be known as savage army until they stop killing our people (namely Tajiks, Kurds, Taylsh, etc) or trying to make us into themselves.
Firstly, they were not Mangols. They were Mongols. Secondly, they did not exterminate the population of Khwarazm and Soghdiana. They killed a lot of people, but they did not exterminate everyone. There was no point in doing it. Genghis Khan left territory of Soghdiana to his second son Chagatai, and Kwharazm to his eldest son Juchi. Why kill everyone and leave your children empty territory?
Legends of how Turks and Mongols slaughtered people of the lands they invaded is not mine. it is not told by Iranians only. Story of their bruelty is told by all the nations who ever came in contact with them, including Arabs, Greeks, all Eastern Europe, Far East, etc. Why are you even arguing over that??
If they killed everyone how could Kwharezmian merchant Mahmud Yalawach (who by the way was Turkic) and his son Masud Bek serve as administrators under Jagatai Khan and help him and his children rule Central Asia? Why would Mongols need local administrators if all local population was killed? Besides, if as you say all population of Soghdiana was killed, then it means that everyone who lives there today are not native. And that includes Tajiks.
If everyone there was killed, than where did Mongols rulers of China, Khubilay Khan and his descendants get their administrators? Mongols could not rule a settled, agricultural empire like China without help of specialists familiar with specifics of ruling such countries. They did not trust Chinese ministers, so they employed Central Asian Muslims, Tajik and Turkic. And they did that for over a century after Central Asia was conquered.
When Timur was young Mongol nomads invaded again. Who resisted them? Tajik Sarbadars of Samarqand. Who was the majority of Timurs troops? Timur had some Mongol blood in him, but he was the main enemy of Ghenigis Khans heritage and nomads. People who joined his army were settled Turks and Tajiks. People who sponsored him were Tajik and Turkic merchants and clergy of Samarqand and Bukhara. And with their help he liberated the land from the rule of nomadic Mongols.
One of Timur's best generals was Amir Shah Malik, who was a Tajik. And by the way, Timur lived in XIV century, and Genghis Khan invaded Central Asia over two hundred years earlier. If Genghis Khan killed everyone, how come Iranic language of Khwarazm was still spoken by many during Timur's rule two hundred years after Mongol invasion? So, you claims that natives were all killed and replaced by newcomers are false. Newcomers mixed with the natives and gave birth to something new)
Ok Qozikolan you apparantly cannot accept the truth about what happened to Iranians. You are saying that Changiz did not kill "all the people' in central asia? what are you talking about?I give you an example: Nishabur is a city in Iran which I personally/physically have been to, it was one of the best cities of Khorsan prior to Mongol invasion. ALL ITS INHABITANTS, FROM CHILDREN, MEN,WOMEN & ANIMALS WERE KILLED IN HANDS OF MONGOLS.
ofcourse Mangols did not kill "everybody". They just killed 6million out of 8million Iranian.
You are telling me Timur (LOL) had "Tajik" generals. I don't know if that is true, but if it is it is like the Iranians who helped Mongols army invade Baghdad. You know that when Mangols invaded Iran there were some Iranians who unfortunatly had to cooperate to save their lives, and therefore had to work for Mongol army.
No, it is you who are wrong. First of all, Nishapur is in not in Iran, not in Central Asia. Second the fact that Genghis sacked Nishapur does not prove that ALL of Central Asian population was killed. And you don't seem to see the difference between Timur's army and the hordes of Genghis. Genghis and his army was a pagan. Timur and his troops were Muslim. Genghis destroyed Central Asia. Timur rebuild it. Genghis was a nomad. Timur would get furious when saw land that is not being worked.
Most of us here are interested in Tajiks (who make up WAY MORE THAN 10% OF UZBEKISTAN POPULATION BASED ON ALL NEUTRAL ESTIMATES OUTSIDE UZBEKSITAN) keeping their language & heritage.
People who call themselves Greek today, have very little to do with ancient Spartans or Athenians. All of Greece was conquered by Slavic tribes around 5th century A.D. They outnumbered the locals, and assimilated them. In 1800's when Greece declared independence from Ottoman empire people of Greece spoke Slavic language. The New Greek language was taught and pushed on them by the government and intelligentsia. And today we have a Greek ethnicity, Greek by name and language, but Slavic by blood.
So, speaking of Egyptians. Descendants of ancient Egyptians mixed with Arabs who arrived later. The result is a new ethnic group. They call themselves Arabs, but they are not the same as ancient Egyptians, and not the same as Bedouins and city dwellers of Arabian peninsula. They are who they are. Anatolian Turks are mostly of Greek origin. They were Turkified, and today consider themselves Turks. Chances of them turning into Greeks are next to nill.
Not exactly Qozi! Facts is, you should distinguish yourself into one came, either COMMONS or INTELLECTUALS! If you are the former, Why you should even CARE? if you are intellectual, then, does it matter to you what the subjects think, if you know the facts?
Population of Tajikistan is 7,215,700. There are 1,1 million Uzbeks living in Tajikistan. That is over 15% of population. There is no education in Uzbek in Tajikistan. Uzbek is not one of official languages of Tajikistan. If Tajikistan can does not provide native language education to 15% (underestimated figure) of Uzbeks living in Tajikistan, why should Uzbekistan do it for 10% (overestimated figure) of Tajiks living in Uzbekistan?
Still dreaming? 10% Tajik? How ignorant you could be to claim such? over 42% of Uzbekistan are Tajiks! Challenge me with facts or just stop none-sense! Easy to talk but difficult to walk your talk Kid? I am sick and tired of your statistic none-sense! Who you are trying to fool here? I proved you wrong many times and yet you play FOOL?
I am telling the facts. Only about 10% of Uzbekistani population consider themselves Tajik. It is the way it is. It is not just statistics. It is personal experience. I lived there. You did not. It does not matter if the rule is Communist or not. I lived under both Communist and non-Communist regimes. Just because we had a regime change does not mean that people began considering themselves a different ethnic group. They were Uzbeks during the Soviets. They are still Uzbeks today.
i as an farsiwan a iranian want to appologize!i know many afghan brothers in tehran! all are suffering!but its not us farsiwans who tread u bad!for us persians afghans are the same!pashtu tadjik are our brothers!
but the AZERI TORK GOVERNMENTOF IRAN HATES PERSIAN TRADITION AND CULTURE!
u know tehran is full of azeris and the afghans in tehran sufferd badly even from local people!
but mashad and other persian dominated areas u are welcome!
سه تن و سه شاخه از يک ريشه ايم -- هم زبان و هم بن و هم پيشه ايم -- توس و بلخ و سغد و شيرازيم ما -- از پدر يک، مادر انبازيم ما -- اين زبان در کوه پامير آن بود -- در دماوند پارسيان را جان بود -- بلخ را با ناصرش حجت نمود -- رودکی را يار با عزت نمود -- سعدی و حافظ را ياد آوريد -- با حکيم توس دل شاد آوريد -- ما يکی و ما يکی و ما يکی -- می شويم باز هم يکی گرديم يکی -- اين قلمرو خطه مايان بود...خطه شاهان با ايمان بود -- راز جم را کی توان از ياد برد -- کورش دانا گرا را داد برد --
Bactarian5000, Bravo! Wonderful statement! You bring tear to my eyes! How can I appreciate your wonderful thoughts? Our ancestor's FARAVAHARS all with you!
Both the mullah (religous cleric) as the interrogator knew full well that this also gave the interrogator permission to rape Nadereh. The interrogator got what he wanted and fulfilled his religious duty in the bargain. Thousands of young women were executed in Iranian prisons (1), most of them were raped under Islamic law.
Shukuh Jalalie
-A list of 1,400 were collected and published by Iranian Political Prisoners Action Committee. Some were pregnant, many were under 17
The only reason why Tajikistan did not turn into a second Afghanistan run by religious fanatics is because Russian troops are there. Russian puppet Imomali Rahmonov, a Tajikistani president has no power and has to rely on Moscow. Meanwhile Turkey is a democracy. Kazakhstan ruled by Turkic Kazakh is prospering. So is Turkic Azerbaijan. Uzbekistan is suffering but it is ran by Samarqandi Tajik clan that shoots women and children and boils people alive. So who is the savage today?)))
Stop Non-sense! Turkey is a democracy and 30% of people have no right to call themselves "Kurd"? Uzbekistan is suffering because of TAJIKS? What a joke. Kazakhstan is prospering? So is Saudi(!) What about free oil money? Is it a factor too? Come on!
I did not say Uzbekistan is suffering because of Tajiks. I am saying that it is suffering because of the government that is almost entirely made of Tajiks. So it is wrong to blame Uzbeks for oppressing or limiting the rights of Tajiks (as some people on this website claim) because the rulers of the country are Tajiks.
Qozi, I don't comment on what I don't know but it seems you don't get what I have been trying to tell you over and over. Politicians have no religious, no ethnicity, but POWER. I am talking about WE THE PEOPLE. Stop non-sense accusation.
I do get what you are saying. I am not blaming Tajiks. I am just saying that Uzbeks are not to blame for shutting down Tajik schools and newpapers in Uzbekistan. Our government is Tajik. I do not know why they treat their own people like that. Personally I love Tajik people. Peace.
QoziKalon, I love Uzbeks personally too. all I am trying o say, it is all about we, THE PEOPLE, not politician or artificial borders. We should create an environment of friendship and overcome the division politician trying to create to destroy us. Love, Peace, Culture and Mutual respect! I am sure you know no Tajik will shoot any Uzbek brothers or sisters unless in self defense.
So if it is the best your civilized Irani government can do, I am not impressed. Besides, if they shut down Tajik schools and newspapers, is it the fault of Uzbeks??? Let's see... Tajik Rabbani and his government failed to do anything useful for Afghanistan. If they were capable of anything Taliban would've never come to power. Iran is run by fanatical mullahs, and before that a tyrannical Shah who opressed his people.
QoziKalon, Are you suggesting that I am supporting Mullahs of Iran or Shah? This will be very ridiculous. I am talking about people not governments. Please understand Taliban was created and supported by CIA and Pakistani ISA and Saudi money. Massoud and Tajik did their best to stop them with very little support of any country even those who knew they will be next target. but we have to accept that Nothing is perfect in real life.
Din Dabireh or Religious Alphabet is the most scientific alphabet ever developed by human kind. It can record every sounds in nature; It is based on sounds and its way by human in contrary to Hirog of Egyptian or Kanji of East which was developed by creating words according to their actual look. Not to mention even special alphabet for music, Encryption, Statistic, Kings, general,..
Now, tell me about linguistic. Let me educate you on very simple facts. What do you know about Alphabet? I know you represent the culture which never developed its own alphabet as other aspects of civilization but did you know Tajik/Persian had 7 Different Alphabet during Sassanid dynasty?
First of all I never intended to connect Japanese with nomadic cultures. There are many nomadic Iranic tribes who are not less primitive than Mongols but for some reasons it is not shameful for Persians. Secondly I could care less how bloody Ottomans were because I am not Ottoman. Neither am I a descendant of Turkic slaves in Egypt or Baghdad. So cut it.
QoziKalon, First, Nomad Civilization is different with having nomads in culture. Second, thanks for clearing Japanese issue. Third, happy to hear that you are not Ottoman. Then, may I ask why trying to disturb great relationship between Uzbeks and Tajiks? We have great understanding and respect for each other and we all understand, our friendship is crucial for a prosper Great Khurasan.
I am not trying to disturb our relationships. I am simply opposed to any Pan-Turkist, Pan-Iranist, Pan-Islamic or whatever "Pan" ideas. The best thing for Central Asia is to unite, but without intervention from outsiders such as Iran or Turkey. United not because we are Turkic or Iranic but because we share the same motherland.
QoziKalon, Are you saying this song is advocating PAN anything? This song is advocating protection of cultural heritage and if you have any sense instead of non-sense accusation, you can visit any country in the world and see by yourself how they try to protect their cultural heritage.
Thanks for clarification, because I am sure a person like you knows very well that preserving a culture is responsibility of EVERY CULTURED PERSON no matter which culture he/she comes from! I look forward for your help to create a wonderful relationship between our two communities. This will be just the start!
Speak facts and get respond or just stop non-sense! I know what you are trying to say and what you present, though, I am well devoted to truth! You can speak your true intention and get a proper respond! This is the heritage of PARSI's culture!
If you go back to the comment you have been posted on this or other clip, you will see what I mean. "Tajik from Samarqand are responsible for all problem in Uzbekistan", YET, education in Dari is forbidden. Your UN_Supported and claims on numbers of Dari speaking, yet, advocating Pan-Turkism in all your clip and yet claiming Pan-??? when you are challenged...... Come on!
You are funny dude. You are not quoting me. You misunderstand what I am trying to say and then present your assumptions as my own words). I never said this: "Tajiks from Samarqand are responsible for all problem in Uzbekistan." I simply said that Uzbekistani president and many government officials are Tajik. I said it in response to a false claim that Tajiks are suffering under a "fascist Uzbek regime". And could you give my quote to prove that I am Pan-Turkist please) I am waiting)
Well! You are trying to get away from what you said! But it is okay! You are trying to justify TAJIKS's Right to educate in their language because some one used some Tajik from Samarqnd to forbid Tajik lnguange? Why?
I am not trying to get away from my words. I am trying to get away from your false accusations. I did not say "Tajiks from Samarqand are responsible for all problems in Uzbekistan." I simply didn't. And no one used some Tajik from Samarqand to forbid Tajik language. That Tajik from Samarqand is president Karimov. There is no person in Uzbekistan who can use him. He boils people alive!!! Try using that guy).
Officially Tajiks are 5% of Uzbekistan's population. Let's say that this number is wrong. Let's say that Pan-Iranists are right and 100% of population of Bukhara and Samarqand is Tajik (even though it is not so). Population of Uzbekistan is 27,372,000. Population of Samarqand and Bukhara combined is 833,000. It is about 3% of the population. Let's add official 5% on the top of it. That equals to 8%. Let's make it 10% so that no one can blame us for being anti-Tajik.
You base it on research. I base it on actual truth. I lived in Uzbekistan all my life. You have probably never been there. My suggestion to you is to travel to all major Uzbekistani cities and towns and speak Tajik to people on the streets. You will not be understood, unless you speak to a native Bukharan or Samarqandi. That is simply the way it is. My resource is my personal experience. I lived there all my life, worked in most major cities, traveled to most major towns.
Since you lived all your life in Uzbekistan under COMMUNIST Rule, let me educate you more! Truth is different from reality! This is Marx statement, isn't that? Why he said so? Spell it and hear the facts!
By the way, the reason I only calculated the population of Samarqand and Bukhara as being Tajik is because no other cities of Uzbekistan speak Tajik. You can't find a single Tajik village even in the countryside around Samarqand. I understand that you may find it insulting that Tajiks don't constitute the majority of population of Tashkent, Andijon, Margilon, Namangan, Shahrisabz, Khiva, Urganch and other cities. But guess what, Beijing and Tokyo are not predominantly Tajik either. So don't cry.
Facts are facts! Come on and smell the facts! Egypt is one of the oldest culture in the World yet, they consider themselves! as ARAB! Can you believe that?
I can believe that Egyptians consider themselves Arabs. That's the way history goes. The French do not consider themselves to be Celtic Gauls, though Gauls are their ancestors. Why? Because Gauls mixed with Germanic Franks who arrived later. Now they are a new ethnicity and have a new identity, and language. Mixture of people (ethnic groups) is just like mixture of wines, or gases. The end result of mixture is not the same as initial ingredients.
Indeed! Egyptians consider themselves as arabs! But you are wrong! this is not the way History goes to INTELLECTUALS! This is the way history goes to COMMONS! Challenge me and get the respond!
Your next example is so foolish I should not even consider! French and Celtic or even Germans are share same roots in history if you pay a bit of attention!
It does not matter how the History goes to Intellectuals. Intellectuals can come up with all kinds of weird ideas. Communism is a product of intellectuals. Sounds logical on paper but does not work. Pan-Turkism is an intellectual product. It did not start just because some Turkish peasants all of a sudden began feeling a cultural bond with some nomads in Mongolia (there is no bond by the way). The reality and dreams of intellectuals are not always the same thing.
Your statistic doesn't matter! Facts are facts! Tell me< just because Egyptian consider themselves arab or Lebanese consider themselves so or probably Anatoly consider themselves Turk, make it sense to you? Just judge your conscientious if you still have one!
And by the way, you said that advocate Pan-Turkism in all my clips. Give me and example. All videos I uploaded on You Tube are Uzbek songs. The fact that I did not place Tajik subtitles (sorry) does not mean that I am Pan-Turkist. The only video that is not a musical clip is a video about Samarqand and Bukhara that I uploaded. But the song that I included in that clip is in Tajik!!! To honor Tajik heritage of the two cities! If I was a Pan-Turkist I would've included a song in Uzbek.
There is a Turkic runic alphabet. Proves of it can be found all over the Great Steppe. Sure they did not build palaces or temples but you see, there is no need of building for nomads. They move with herds, so it is not practical. It does not mean that they are dumber than Persians or Greeks. Nomadic cattle-raising is a form of adaptation to environment. It was more practical to herd than to cultivate in Mongolia.
Nomadic societies do not develop technologies because there is no need for them and not because they are stupid or brutal. The only tool a shepherd needs is a whip which does not need improvement. I could go on and on but it is not the main subject of our discussion.
The truth is: Uzbekistani president Islom Karimov is a Tajik from Samarqand. The man who put him to power is Ismoil Jurabekov - a Tajik. Shawkat Mirziyaev, prime-minister - Tajik. Mullojonov, head of Central Bank - Tajik. Polvon-Zoda, minister of Justice - Tajik. All important government posts in Uzbeksitan are occupied by Samarqandi Tajiks. They same people shot dead 500 women, children, and elderly protesters in Andijan in 2005. They ran Central Asia's richest country to poverty.
13. History is the best witness and every one except Turk themselves knows what happened to 1.5 Million Armenian just now in 20 century, not to mention daily struggle of 30% of total population of turkey, KURDS a pure Iranian Tribes, for their very basic rights to call themselves KURD instead of "Mountain Turk!!!" or even choose Kurdish name. This is the reason Anatolia became Turkey! Should I go on for other so-called 360 million Turks?.
Also you attempts to blame other Turkic nations for what Ottomans did are pointless. Uzbeks did not kill Armenians. Neither did Tatars. Nor Uighurs. As far as so called attempts of Uzbekistans "Pan-Turkist fascist regime" to stripe Tajiks of their identity I should tell you what many of you outsiders refuse to understand.
I never blame anyone for someone else guilt. As a matter of fact, I have been always a great advocate of brotherhood and mutual respects between Uzbeks, Tajiks and Hazara. It takes us all to rebuild a great regions rather than falling into trap and fight between ourself. Northern Alliance is a great example that we have to build on.
12. Now, let see who were the Yeni Cheri, the proud of Turks. Majority of Yeni cheri army, were just innocent boys taken as slave during European invasion and after killing their parents (Mostly Bulgar, Rumanian, Serbs, etc). They were isolated and train to kill in order to survive. These kids never enjoy the warmth of family, so lacked any feeling. They were trained to kill even their own masters and easy killing machine in hands of Turk caliphs and their Pashas.
10. This serial of "Blood and death" was continue during 300 years of Ottoman ruling killing millions of innocent people including their own relative for thirst of power and wealth. For those interested I refer Great European researcher D. Cantemir: "The history of the Grouth and decay of the Ottoman Empire" London 1758. Or J. von Hammer: "Geschichte des Osmanischen Reish, 10 vols, Budapest1827-1835. Let me know if you need more reference and your language of choice!!!
8. During his 8 years rule, the land was a blood bath every day. 400 traders were killed because they trade with Iran. This statistic is just tip of Iceberg.
9. Sultan Soleyman the second Ottoman Caliph was not even better. He killed several of his own sons and grandsons, including the talented Poet Mustafa (Mohebi) who has several Poem books all in PERSIAN.
7. Getting back to Salim the founder of Ottoman Caliph, he killed over 40,000 on suspicion of being Shia in one week before famous Chaldoran War when his 240,000 Yeni Cheri Army armed with Canon and artilleries facing only 28,000 Persian army. And even funnier, despite their initial win, this was the first time in history, a wining army left behind all its artilleries and run away in few weeks!
6. Even worse, Sultan Murad the 3rd had 103 children and only 20 sons and 27 daughters survived. Out of 20 sons, his successor Sultan mohammad the 3rd killed 19 of his own brothers according this Fatwa.
5. Sultan Salim the first, start his ruling by poisoning his own father. He killed all his own brothers including their wives and children. This was not enough, he killed 3 of his own sons (Morad, Mahmoud, & Abdallah) and he was planning to kill his last son Soleyman but a miracle saved him. A fatwa legitimized killing brothers and children in order to strengthen ruling!!!!
Turks start another chapter of conquering lands in behalf of Islam but their power was LIMITED to Military power and until the end, they were disable to build a CIVILIZATION of their own. They were satisfied to the taking advantage of civilizations they took over without adding to them on their own. Consequently they went backward and their era closed to its end. ......... "
4. Getting back to Ottoman Caliphs and looking at their shameful achievements, there have been many books written by European. Perhaps I should include some opinion from "Gustave le Bon" where in his book "Civilization des Arabes" P468-469, he states: "The end of Arab rule came at the day when by the same SWORD they took power, they were overrun by Turks. cont..
Perhaps no one can even give an accurate number of how many innocent people were killed during these time and how many people abandoned their culture identity to save their life. A dark era in human Civilization.
3. Upon meeting two DESERT GROWN Civilization (Arab and Turk), Turks (and later Mongol in some degree) became very interested in Islam, especially in its teaching of Holly wars that both satisfy their thirst for blood, and allowing them to kill innocent civilians, enslave their wives/children and take over all their belonging ALL IN THE NAME OF GOD, not to mention, still a PROMISE to have a place in HEAVEN!!!!!
Bagha, atamash, Baibag, Kalabtin during Motevakel Abasi Caliphs are examples. Refer to Edward G. Browne Book "History of Iranian Litreture" Vol.1 P504.
2. Turks were originally brought to the Baghdad as slaves either as part of regional Tax of great Khurasan or sold individually by slave traders. These slaves actually were taken by the Turk tribes who converted to Islam not directly by arabs (Slaves taken according to Islamic law). These slaves later became very influential officers in Caliph's army over time because of their loyalty to execute savage orders to kill and massacre opposition's voice.
1. Ottoman Caliphs officially start their ruling after conquering Egypt in 1517 A.D (Renaissance Era in Europe and starting another Darkness era in Middle east) and continue their ruling until in 1924 A.D National congress of modern turkey (Ataturk recommendation) officially replace Caliph system with modern government. There were 28 Turk Caliphs and Sultan Salim was the first one.
Having said so, let me provide you with some facts that these people NOT ONLY they cannot tolerate other cultural heritage BUT ALSO they cannot tolerate each other when it comes to power. Any one taking a simple course in history in Near East and Central Asia in last 800 years have probably heard of Ottoman Caliphs as the glorious of Turkish history (let ignore their two gREAT Khans for a moment and get back to them later).
This clip is a beautiful peace of art, promoting respect for cultural heritage and identity, consequently any CIVILIZED person with any CULTURAL background, will appreciate it. Obviously some who never gave rise to any true civilization but in their best, build on others cultural heritage, instead of appreciation, they are trying to spam and divert the discussion, hoping they can encourage people to abandon their heritage and assimilate in their so-called 360 million fantasy world.
Though, you are NOT here to prove so. Is this jealously? Partly yes BUT mainly, this is part of STATE SUPPORTED Champaign to suppress further the Tajik society and force them to give away their identity and great cultural heritage. This has been systematically exercised in central Asia over last few centuries. Tolerance is the basic element and fundamental of any true civilized society but unfortunately it is lacked here even in 21st century.
Trying to attach Japanese to a NOMADIC primitive way of life exercised in Gobi desert by Turkish and Mongol tribe which NEVER gave rise to any real Civilization and height of their tent was their greatest achievement in architect, is a CRUEL COMPARISON.
Let get right to point. If you are here to prove that Japanese is part of Altaic language, I have already proved you wrong and you confessed this is not what main stream school of thought (at least partially). Japanese civilization is very old and mature with very unique beautiful characterization and without any doubt a great contribution to human Society.
What's worse is that both camps are trying to get other Turkic and Iranic nations involved and spread their hateful ideologies among us. Our Tajiks are sweethearts. They are nice and friendly people without prejudices. Hate to brag but Uzbeks are the same. Can't speak for those in Afghanistan but in Soviet Central Asia they live like brothers. So, please, save us from Persian and Turkish imperial metastasis. Do the world a favor. Fight a war in between each other. But leave us alone!!!
I understand where you are coming from though. I've read some of Turkish "researches" that are trying to prove that Japanese and Koreans, Hungarians, and Iranic Avars, Massagets, Saks, Alans where actually Turks. To me they are worse then Persian whinos because they waste paper. Most of their books are too stupid to read and too hard to whipe my a**. Save a tree, stop writing and do something useful my Pan-Turkist friends.
Do you guys have a problem using a bathroom? You never know, there may be a Turk hiding down them tubes ready to grab you when you are sitting on it. Boo!!!) Anatolian Turks are not better either. They are busy trying to prove the world that every nation comes from ancient Turks. They print countless "researches" and "historical" books on how ancient Turks ruled most of the known world, and how they were blue eyed, blond warriors (ha,ha,ha).
Armenians are kinda same. Nice people but if you read their newspapers it's all about a genocide. It was a terrible thing but get over it. Is there nothing else left in the world? Jews faced much worse persecution but they are not dwelling on it. They don't have a "victim" sindrome. Persians and Armenians on the other hand see "an evil Turkish hand" and conspiracy in everything.
Anatolian Turks and Persians are probably the most arrogant people one can meet. The problem of both is that they are what I call "victim" nations. All you hear from them is whining about their "lost empires" and how it is the fault of everyone around them. At the same time they consider everyone around them as "barbarians".
Apart from our Japanese argument I have to tell you and all Pan-Iranists and Pan-Turksits who may be reading this. Stay out of Central Asia. You are not welcome to the north of Amu Darya. Stay the f*** in Iran and Anatolia. You are bad influence.
On the other hand their German and Russian counterparts are the most meticulous and accurate when it comes to bibliography and research. They are much more accurate. Especially Germans. So hate to say that, Americans may be better when it comes to technologies but when it comes to ethnography no one comes close to Europeans.
Well, most of my Professors were Germans and neither were even close to agree with you 9at least one originally believed so but he rejected later). I have already mentioned two names so far but for security purpose i won't give you more name.
I am not backing off from Standford professors. There are several theories in regards to Japanese language. So, no one can really claim that a particular theory is an absolute truth. That is why they are called "theories". But Altaic theory is widely accepted in Europe, Russia and by many Japanese scholars. So, you can't really accuse me of lying because I defend a very legitimate point of view.
Sure there is a debate that still goes on. But majority of world's linguists leans towards Altaic family. Americans are an exception. But you see, US historians and ethnographers are known for their love of sensations, trying to prove whatever is widely accepted to be wrong.
Your anti American feeling is well noticed thought, the fact is, almost all European are in harmony with American scientist. Not to mention, majority of US Scholars have deep root in Europe.
Altaic theory simply has more weight and fact to it than Dravidian or Austronesian theory. And if you really knew anything about ethnography you would've known about a heated debate between many European scholars and American ones in regards to Japanese language. Instead, you accused me of making the whole thing up, called me a liar and called my sources fake.
Most of todays Altaic languages have vowel harmony but Proto-Altaic as reconstructed by Starostin lacked it -- instead various vowel assimilations between the first and second syllables of words occurred in Turkic, Mongolic, Tungusic, Korean, and Japonic.
vowel harmony is not specific to Altaic languages neither vowel assimilation between first and second syllables. Actually the vowel assimilation between first and second in Japanese is silent so unless you can read Kanji, or Hiragan, or katakana, by Romanji, there is very hard without previous experiment to pronounce it correctly. The other exception is the last syllables which sound silent to foreigners.
Read Publication of An Etymological Dictionary of the Altaic Languages by S. Starostin, A. Dybo, and O. Mudrak in 2003. Result of 20 years of work it contains 2800 proposed cognate sets, complete set of regular sound correspondences, number of grammatical correspondences, and a few important changes to reconstruction of Proto-Altaic.
Why are you backing off from your Stanford Professors, including Japanese scholars? The website I refer you, has the latest agreed work in Linguistic. It makes no sense to refer to book that not many people here has access to, even though I assure you there is nothing but excluding Japanese there. Why don't you refer to some accessible source to everyone here?
Sure. Why don't you go to Wikipedia and type in Altaic languages. Tell me what you see in the right column))) Or go to altaica dot ru and click "switch to english". Or go to starling dot rinet dot ru to read about late Sergei Starostin one of worlds greatest linguists. I know that you will accuse him of making things up, and insult a great man not even knowing him simply because he disagrees with your point of view. But hey... It is your sin, not mine so go ahead.
Dr. Frye the father of Near eastern study in Harvard university once said: " I went to Central Asia to complete my research on the history and culture of region. It was then that I realized I need to learn Farsi FIRST". Watch his clip on utube by searching "Richard Frye, Harvard Professor Iran Lover".
Knowledge of Farsi in Central Asia is only valuable in Afghanistan and Tajikistan. And in two cities of Samarqand and Bukhara and a few villages in Uzbekistan. The main and largest part of Central Asia does not speak Farsi.
During campaign of Turkification of region, many Tajiks or people of mixed background were forced to adapt some sort of turkish dialect to avoid massacre or harassment in later days, though they kept their culture. This is also true in Anatolia and other area were some turk tribes emigrated. What Dr. Frye is pointing out is not the simple one factor but the culture in motion for survival.
I cannot rely on Chinese or Turkish sources when it comes to East Turkistan. Both are biased. And why do you have to so agressive. Why would I want to kill the Hans in Uighur region? How about Hans conducting nuclear tests in the region poisoning and slowly killing Uighurs? How about forced abortions of Uighur women? You are quite a humanist I see. Oh, poor Hans. And Uighurs and their suffering is nothing for you. You are a racist.
I am a discipline of Western Universities and school of thought. I have never used any Chinese, or Turkish or even Persian (except 2 extraordinary Sources, Professors Moghadam & poorDavood because of their devotion to science). Calling me a racist is showing your true face, looking at mirror. I have always support XinJiang's real inhabitants' right (including Tajiks) to whatever political system they prefer.
Trying to argue on something you don't understand and trying to distort the facts won't give you any credit sonny! Why don't you educate yourself before posting a comment? Don't try to build on lies.
Anton Boller was first to iclude Japanese to Altaic family in 1857. As a result of decades-long work, G.J. Ramstedt's book Einführung in die altaische Sprachwissenschaft included both Japanese and Korean in Altaic family.
QoziKalon, you are just getting to the point I explained at very early stage of discussion. This was just initial theory and for the lack of full understanding. Give you an example, Professor Schwartz earlier wrote a paper on the subject but only few years ago, he published papers and rejected his own initial believes. Not only on Altaic but also on Avestan and Sanskrit. This is typical in the field. If you wish I can also refer you on several contradicting papers on Dravidian as well.
If you doubt foreign sources I can suggest reading few works of Ruhlen or Greenberg. They are from Stanford. By the way, Mr.Greenberg is Jewish so I don't think that he is biased or is a Pan-Tukist))
Who you are trying to fool here? I attend very often in all ligu conferences in Stanford and I tell you that NO ONE in Stanford or generally speaking any Bay Area Universities (Berkeley as well) believe Japanese is an Altaic neither Chinese. Try another trick man.
awghanistan is my toilet ;)
UzbeksUnited 2 months ago
Beautiful!
PERSIAN is Gold!
Parsian/Tajikan Forever!
watch?v=IMA-u-i2wSA
utash321 1 year ago
pashto che sigheye!!! koni kos khole madar jende, ...
(man sanandaji hastam) koni to ke sale babatam nemitone saresho bokhore dari vase man gardan kolofti mikoni kiram to kose khahare harchi afghaniye , khar nane kosdeh madareto khosh khosh gaidam, khareto gaidam
arvinjavadi 1 year ago
@arvinjavadi kiram dahane arab tokhme sag
kir to dahanat
mamnan1 1 year ago
mA MOGHEI BARADAR MISHAVIM KE (OSTANHAYE) IRAN BE IRAN BAZ GARDANDE SHAVAD (afghaNESTAN) (uzbakESTAN) (tajikESTAN)............
AN ROOOOZ NAZDIK HAST
arvinjavadi 2 years ago
arvinjavadi @
fahmidi? kose madare tu PASHTUN.
JohnTheAriahi 1 year ago
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arvinjavadi 2 years ago
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arvinjavadi 2 years ago
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arvinjavadi 2 years ago
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arvinjavadi 2 years ago
Ai ma haman tukhme palid ke PADAR tu bashad sar khar savar shgavam tu zane ENGLIS va ARAB chykha koni bachia tu IRANI niesti tu az tukhme AHRIMAN asti ,koni bachia tu chi goh mekhori dai in safha,berav va madare ARABZADAIE khod ra nejat byde piesh az in ke ma Irani ha savorash shavem,
JohnTheAriahi 1 year ago
@JohnTheAriahi
boro koneto be amricaiha bede afghaniye koni, to ba on lahjeye tokhmit migi irani hasti, hahahha,akhe tablo chi behet begam, badam age to irani hasti balaye in video neveshte afghanestan va khandedar injast dare ostore haye irano neshon mide ,loool.
arvinjavadi 1 year ago
kose madare tu pashtun madar khatah
JohnTheAriahi 1 year ago
@JohnTheAriahi , be tarikh ke mirese irani hastin na? akhe marde momen man azat mikham beri ye sar bezani be video hai ke ham mihananet to youtube gozoshtan boro bebin che tohinai be irani ha kardan,ghasame abas ya dombe khoroso bavar konim mashti?
arvinjavadi 1 year ago
bachia kosi zahmat nakash tu palid az kose pashtun biron baramadi tuf ba sorate tu palid.
JohnTheAriahi 1 year ago
Again my comments are regarding the tajik population of Uzbekistan. I don't frankly care what uzbek think their ancestors are. in every neutral human right report i read it says uzbek government is supressing and underestimating the number of tajiks. when you don't even accept what is happening today I don't see a point arguing with you over what happen to Iranians of central asia 1000 yrs ago.
ddd0dd 2 years ago
I don't accept what you claim is happening today is because majority of Uzbekistani government is Samarqandi Tajik. President Islam Karimov is Tajik. Moreover, he is "Ironi". In our country "Ironis" are descendants of Shia Persian slaves sold on markets of Bukhara by Turkmen raiders. They are Iranian and speak the Iranian as their native language. So, Karimov is Ironi, and the man who brought him to power Ismoil Jurabekov is also Irone, from the same mahalla Karimov grew up in.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Islam Karimov's father was Ironi man named Abdulghani, and his mother was a Tajik woman named Sanobar. Both were native of Samarqand. Other Tajiks that occupy key power positions in Uzbekistan are: Buritosh Mustafoyev - Attorney General, Fayzullo Mullojonov - head of Central Bank, Polvon-Zadeh - Minister of the Interior. It is the men of Tajik Mustafoyev who send political activists to prison, and men of Tajik Polvon-Zadeh who dip them into boiling water, at the orders of Tajik Karimov.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
I am not even talking about Mullojonov's Central Bank that has a lot to do with money laundering. I did not yet mention that Ismoil Jurabekov - head of Samarqandi Tajik clan that rules Uzbekistan is a known drug smuggler. Orders to arrest him are issued by the European Union.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Uzbekistan that during Soviet rule was the richest and most advanced republic of Central Asia when it was ruled by predominantly Uzbek Farghoni, Tashkent and Jizzakh clans, have turned into economic wreck after 19 years of Tajik rule. Even under Soviet regime neither local Uzbek rulers or big shots in Moscow boiled people alive. Our regime of today does it. When the president is Tajik, Attorney General is Tajik, and chief of police and all prisons is Tajik. Hmm...
QoziKalon 2 years ago
So, the answer to your question why is Tajik language and culture are being suppressed in Uzbekistan my answer is: "I don't know." I really don't know and refuse to understand why would Tajik rulers of Uzbekistan suppress their own people. Note, that under Uzbek rule the oldest Tajik language newspaper in Central Asia - Bukhoroi Sharif existed for almost a century. And it was shut down under Tajik Karimov.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
As far as you telling me about Turkish brutality, I don't care if Turks were brutal. I am not a Turk. I am Uzbek. Turks live in Turkey. Uzbeks of today are descendants of local, ancient Iranian population and Turkic nomads that arrived later. It can be proven just by looking at us. Sure, Afghan Uzbeks look more Mongol than we are. But in Uzbekistan majority of Uzbeks and Tajiks look alike. There are Uzbeks with predominantly Iranian features, and there are Tajiks who have some Mongol features.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Before the Soviets divided Central Asia into modern republics we did not divide ourselves based on ethnicity. We divided ourselves based on lifestyle. City population was known as Sarts. We had Sarts who spoke Persian in Bukhara and Samarqand. And we had Sarts who spoke Turkic in Tashkent, Khwarezm, Andijan, Margilan, Kokand, Namangan. Racially and culturally they were the same. The only difference was the language. And there were nomads - some Uzbeks, Kipchaks, Kazakhs, Naimans, Kigrhiz etc.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Those nomads probably the only full blooded Turkic population here. They looked Mongol. And we also had Tajik highlanders who probably were the only fool blooded Iranian population here. They looked more Persian than Iranian-speaking Sarts of the cities. So, when the Soviets divided Central Asia they forcefully divided some of us and forced some to register as others. For example, many semi-nomadic Mongol looking tribes were registered as Uzbeks. Some Turkic speaking people as Tajiks.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
They also divided Sarts into Uzbeks and Tajiks. Most Turkic speaking Sarts never called themselves Uzbek. Uzbeks originally were a small confederation of Turkic-Mongol tribes that conquered Central Asia. When they arrived here, they founded their own ruling dynasties. It was the Soviets who forcefully registered all of Central Asian Turkic speaking population as Uzbeks.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
In areas like Samarqand and Bukhara were Sarts spoke both Persian and Uzbeks, a lot of Sarts had trouble identifying themselves. Many did not know if they should be registered as Tajiks or Uzbeks. For example, a great Bukharan writer Sadriddin Ayni became a Tajik. His fellow Bukharan writer Fitrat became Uzbek, and a Pan-Turkist. Bukharan Fayzulla Khojaev became a first leader of Soviet Uzbekistan. And poet Abdulvohid Munzim became Tajik. Even though ethnically all of them were the same.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
My grandfather, who worked as a clerk in one of Soviet institutions in 1930's used to tell us that most peasants and many officials when filling up official forms would leave the section that asks about ethnicity blank. In reality, how could you divide the people of Bukhara. We had Turkic and Tajik speaking Sarts living in the same area. Tajik highlanders and Arabic herders, Kipchak and Barlas nomads, and Uzbek aristocracy, descendants of Persian Slaves and the Gypsy Luli people.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
All this salad of ethnic groups was forcefully registered either as Uzbeks or Tajiks. So, it is not the question if some of the cities belong to Tajikistan or Uzbekistan, because both countries are artificial creations of the Soviet regime. So is Turkmenistan, with over a million Uzbeks forcefully registered as Turkmens. And Kazakhstan with all southern Sart populated cites, that have nothing to do with Kazakh nomads. And Kyrgyzstan with Kipchak people forced to call themselves Kyrgyz.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Qozi, Let face the facts together!
AAn yadegare AVESTA PARSIST!
That is a fact!
Challenge me!
Shirio77 2 years ago
That is why the Kurds of Turkey (and when I say Kurds I mean Kurds who consider themselves Kurds, not Turks with Kurdish ancestors) refuse to be considered Mountain Turks. That is why Tajiks of Samarqand and Bukhara insist that they are Tajik even if their birth certificates say that they are Uzbek. Politicians can't change one's ethnic group (well, they can on paper). Ethnicity can change, but it happens over centuries.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
So, as far as you insisting that 45% of Uzbekistani population is Tajik. It is not so. It may be that 45% of Uzbekistani population had Tajik ancestors. It is very much possible. The question is, what percentage consider themselves Tajik today? Answer: about 10%. Tell the rest that they are Tajik and they will resist. The rest speak Uzbek as a mother tongue. Not because Soviets forced them to. If Soviets could force it then people of Bukhara and Samarqand would've been speaking Uzbek today.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
And considering the movement of population and foundation of numerous new cities and towns during the Soviet era it is virtually impossible to determine who of the people living in those towns had Tajik or Uzbek ancestors centuries ago. It is just the way it is.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
QoziKalon,
I have been always for facts and I know you are a good guy just in opposite side with me for one or another reason! Still, I respect you very much! Though, I think, you need to read more on history! We have much more in common as you think! Speaking on Kurds in Turkey, just by looking at my profile, you will see I have been always a supporter! It is not a matter of PAN-... but self determination and culture!
Shirio77 2 years ago
Cont!
They have right to decide for themselves and yet, I see gain in them since they are highly devoted to their ancestor's identity! Watch Resu! Love and respect!
Your friend!
Shirio77 2 years ago
Qozi, at least once in your life you are stating the fact, though, you have reason for that, to claim you are fair, right?
Shirio77 2 years ago
cheshmetaa satka ba in ohange zebaiat watan dar aziz
fdivhifuifdbf 2 years ago
QoziKalon, Tell me, in your opinion, the language is the only factor to distinguish a nation? Come on my friend! You are not that fool to say that! Don't forget the facts! You try to play POLITIC with my statements but I never care about POLITICS! FACTS AND SCIENCES are my love! What about you? Did you sell your soul as I believe?
Shirio77 2 years ago
The language does not distinguish one's ethnicity or racial background. For example, when we say Turkic or Iranian ethnic groups today we only mean a linguistic generalization. Turkic includes Anatolian Turks (who are mostly of Greek and Kurdish origin) and Azeris who have more Iranian blood than Turkic and Mongoloid Yakuts of Siberia. So does Iranian group include Persians who are Aryan and Hazaras who are Mongol. That is why both Pan-Turkic and Pan-Iranian ideas are wrong.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
They're both wrong because they preach unity of particular ethnic groups simply because they speak similar language. But language is a part of culture, not blood. Ethnic groups are prone to cultural influence. That's how Hazaras end up speaking Farsi and Greeks of Anatolia turn Turkish. If we follow the same logic than the French and black population of Haiti are the same just because both speak French language) That's why I am not a pan-Turkist. Because all these Pan-ethnic ideas make no sense.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Qozi,
Yet another mis-representation! It is so suspicious to me one simple facts about your stat3ements! Why you always try to HIGHLIGHT all but the truth! Greek, yes, Armenian, yes, Azari, yes, BUT, never Persian! THOUGH, did you you know all of these ETNICITIES are consider a branch of Aryan's? Come on! Fact the fact and stop non-sense!
Shirio77 2 years ago
Aryan and Persian is not the same thing. All Persians are Aryan. But not all Aryan are Persian. Russians are Aryan. Are they Persian? I say Armenian, Azari, Greek, because that's what they are. Aryan? Yes. But being Armenian, Azari or Greek is more important for them. I am first of all Uzbek, and only then Turkic or Aryan (I have both bloods in me). One of my best friends is first of all Russian, and only then Slavic, and only after that Aryan.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
QoziKalon!
Sometimes you surprise me too much! Probably you drunk over the limit!
How did you get to such a conclusion and when did I state something to make you so?
Okay! Since you try to be hypocritical, I should respond you accordingly! Fact is, if you go back to history, Europe was hardly LIVEABLE for a Culture to NOURISH over 3000 years ago! Avesta is the ROOT Language for all ARYAN whether you like it or not!
Shirio77 2 years ago
Hey, I agree that Avesta is a root language for all Aryan. But it does not change the fact that being a Russian is more important for a Russian than being an Aryan. Fur Uzbeks it is more important that they are Uzbeks than that they are Turkic. That's just the way it is. It's not hatred. And dear friend, I am not saying that professor Frys is wrong (though, no one is perfect). His theory may be right, but try convincing a peasant that professor is right.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Qozi,
To to go further, you need to OPEN your heart! Why to much haters in your heart? Just read Gathaha once before judging any one! It is all about LOVE! Not seperation not Selfishness, Not Arrogance! Life is all about fighting between Devil and GOOD! It is all your choice which one to choose!
Talking about Aryan, you will know the word was used first in Avesta! This is all about NOBLE Mind not the race!
Shirio77 2 years ago
QoziKalon, I expected more than that! Trying hard to PRETEND FAIR? You don't need to pretend, just state what you really thing! At least once in your life!
Talking about AQNATOLIAN, including all but Persian? You can be kidding here! Reading history is that difficult?
Happy NowRuz after all!
Shirio77 2 years ago
But that's only scientific part of it. There is also another important factor - The People. If the people consider themselves a part of one ethnic group you can tell them all the facts about their far away ancestors trying to prove them that they are not who they consider themselves. It won't change a thing. People of Greece will still consider themselves Greek even though they are Slavs who adapted the language and Greeks of Anatolia will insist that they are Turkish.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Balkh77,
How can I appreciate you my brother for protecting our ancestor's CULTURE? I just love you! PLEASE KEEP UP WITH YOUR GREAT JOB!
Shirio77 2 years ago
Chances of todays Greeks identifying themselves as Slavs are also next to nill. So, I agree that many of Uzbeks have Iranian blood and got Turkified later. But do I believe that they can start identifying themselves as Tajiks? No. Because they are not Tajiks. They are a result of mixture of several ethnic groups, of both Iranian and Turkic origin.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Agin Qozi! It doesn't matter what the subjects (COMMONS) think. The intellectuals just focus on facts! Wake up my friend! You know I respect you very much but should you respect yourself more?
Shirio77 2 years ago
What the subjects (commons) think does matter. Intellectuals can claim whatever they want to claim. Intellectual can bring all researches to an Uzbek peasant from Samarqand suburb trying to convince him that he is really Tajik. But the peasant will stay Uzbek, and will not start learning Farsi to restore his heritage.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Qozi,
Over time I know, I trust you more that that! How can you accuse a RESEARCHER like Professor Frys, the father of Eastern Study in USA to be so cheap to end up to just a PEASANT in Samarqand? This is not you! I trusted more than that, my dear friend!
Shirio77 2 years ago
its not only intellectuals,politicians & human right groups such as Amnesty International who have been yelling out that Uzbek government has underestimated the number of Persian speaking Tajiks in that country.None of us here really care if Uzbeks want to restore Persian language or not,personally I think whoever was stupid enough to abondon their Persian language & its glory to a langauge spread around by a savage army& now is proudly dissing their Persian heritage BETTER NOT COME BACK TO US.
ddd0dd 2 years ago
That is exactly why it is not going to happen. Unification of Central Asia under the idea of Persian cultural unity will not happen until Persians learn not to view their neighbors as savage army. Your heritage is dear to you. Our Iranian heritage of our Soghdian and Khorezmian ancestors is also dear to us. So is our Turkic heritage. How can we praise our mother and defy our father? We are who we are. Peace.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Soghdian & Khorazmian? I was under the impression that Mangol & Tatar army cleansed Khazarzm & Soghdia from alive creatures, including humans? how can your Iranian heritage be of them, since they were all killed?
Whatever you think Uzbek heritage is doesn't conern me. You keep yours & we keep ours. Our neighbouring countries will always be known as savage army until they stop killing our people (namely Tajiks, Kurds, Taylsh, etc) or trying to make us into themselves.
ddd0dd 2 years ago
Firstly, they were not Mangols. They were Mongols. Secondly, they did not exterminate the population of Khwarazm and Soghdiana. They killed a lot of people, but they did not exterminate everyone. There was no point in doing it. Genghis Khan left territory of Soghdiana to his second son Chagatai, and Kwharazm to his eldest son Juchi. Why kill everyone and leave your children empty territory?
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Legends of how Turks and Mongols slaughtered people of the lands they invaded is not mine. it is not told by Iranians only. Story of their bruelty is told by all the nations who ever came in contact with them, including Arabs, Greeks, all Eastern Europe, Far East, etc. Why are you even arguing over that??
ddd0dd 2 years ago
If they killed everyone how could Kwharezmian merchant Mahmud Yalawach (who by the way was Turkic) and his son Masud Bek serve as administrators under Jagatai Khan and help him and his children rule Central Asia? Why would Mongols need local administrators if all local population was killed? Besides, if as you say all population of Soghdiana was killed, then it means that everyone who lives there today are not native. And that includes Tajiks.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
If everyone there was killed, than where did Mongols rulers of China, Khubilay Khan and his descendants get their administrators? Mongols could not rule a settled, agricultural empire like China without help of specialists familiar with specifics of ruling such countries. They did not trust Chinese ministers, so they employed Central Asian Muslims, Tajik and Turkic. And they did that for over a century after Central Asia was conquered.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
When Timur was young Mongol nomads invaded again. Who resisted them? Tajik Sarbadars of Samarqand. Who was the majority of Timurs troops? Timur had some Mongol blood in him, but he was the main enemy of Ghenigis Khans heritage and nomads. People who joined his army were settled Turks and Tajiks. People who sponsored him were Tajik and Turkic merchants and clergy of Samarqand and Bukhara. And with their help he liberated the land from the rule of nomadic Mongols.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
One of Timur's best generals was Amir Shah Malik, who was a Tajik. And by the way, Timur lived in XIV century, and Genghis Khan invaded Central Asia over two hundred years earlier. If Genghis Khan killed everyone, how come Iranic language of Khwarazm was still spoken by many during Timur's rule two hundred years after Mongol invasion? So, you claims that natives were all killed and replaced by newcomers are false. Newcomers mixed with the natives and gave birth to something new)
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Ok Qozikolan you apparantly cannot accept the truth about what happened to Iranians. You are saying that Changiz did not kill "all the people' in central asia? what are you talking about?I give you an example: Nishabur is a city in Iran which I personally/physically have been to, it was one of the best cities of Khorsan prior to Mongol invasion. ALL ITS INHABITANTS, FROM CHILDREN, MEN,WOMEN & ANIMALS WERE KILLED IN HANDS OF MONGOLS.
ddd0dd 2 years ago
ofcourse Mangols did not kill "everybody". They just killed 6million out of 8million Iranian.
You are telling me Timur (LOL) had "Tajik" generals. I don't know if that is true, but if it is it is like the Iranians who helped Mongols army invade Baghdad. You know that when Mangols invaded Iran there were some Iranians who unfortunatly had to cooperate to save their lives, and therefore had to work for Mongol army.
ddd0dd 2 years ago
No, it is you who are wrong. First of all, Nishapur is in not in Iran, not in Central Asia. Second the fact that Genghis sacked Nishapur does not prove that ALL of Central Asian population was killed. And you don't seem to see the difference between Timur's army and the hordes of Genghis. Genghis and his army was a pagan. Timur and his troops were Muslim. Genghis destroyed Central Asia. Timur rebuild it. Genghis was a nomad. Timur would get furious when saw land that is not being worked.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Most of us here are interested in Tajiks (who make up WAY MORE THAN 10% OF UZBEKISTAN POPULATION BASED ON ALL NEUTRAL ESTIMATES OUTSIDE UZBEKSITAN) keeping their language & heritage.
ddd0dd 2 years ago
People who call themselves Greek today, have very little to do with ancient Spartans or Athenians. All of Greece was conquered by Slavic tribes around 5th century A.D. They outnumbered the locals, and assimilated them. In 1800's when Greece declared independence from Ottoman empire people of Greece spoke Slavic language. The New Greek language was taught and pushed on them by the government and intelligentsia. And today we have a Greek ethnicity, Greek by name and language, but Slavic by blood.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
So, speaking of Egyptians. Descendants of ancient Egyptians mixed with Arabs who arrived later. The result is a new ethnic group. They call themselves Arabs, but they are not the same as ancient Egyptians, and not the same as Bedouins and city dwellers of Arabian peninsula. They are who they are. Anatolian Turks are mostly of Greek origin. They were Turkified, and today consider themselves Turks. Chances of them turning into Greeks are next to nill.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Not exactly Qozi! Facts is, you should distinguish yourself into one came, either COMMONS or INTELLECTUALS! If you are the former, Why you should even CARE? if you are intellectual, then, does it matter to you what the subjects think, if you know the facts?
Shirio77 2 years ago
Population of Tajikistan is 7,215,700. There are 1,1 million Uzbeks living in Tajikistan. That is over 15% of population. There is no education in Uzbek in Tajikistan. Uzbek is not one of official languages of Tajikistan. If Tajikistan can does not provide native language education to 15% (underestimated figure) of Uzbeks living in Tajikistan, why should Uzbekistan do it for 10% (overestimated figure) of Tajiks living in Uzbekistan?
QoziKalon 2 years ago
QoziKalon,
Still dreaming? 10% Tajik? How ignorant you could be to claim such? over 42% of Uzbekistan are Tajiks! Challenge me with facts or just stop none-sense! Easy to talk but difficult to walk your talk Kid? I am sick and tired of your statistic none-sense! Who you are trying to fool here? I proved you wrong many times and yet you play FOOL?
Shirio77 2 years ago
I am telling the facts. Only about 10% of Uzbekistani population consider themselves Tajik. It is the way it is. It is not just statistics. It is personal experience. I lived there. You did not. It does not matter if the rule is Communist or not. I lived under both Communist and non-Communist regimes. Just because we had a regime change does not mean that people began considering themselves a different ethnic group. They were Uzbeks during the Soviets. They are still Uzbeks today.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
nazanin ansari ( london keyhan) worked with saddam againist iran in 20 years - this pan arab element has no right talk about in iran
she is a pan arab pad - she cooperate with saddam - she is no legitime jornalist
she just make probaganda about iran 4 creating civil war in iran
Democrat2345 3 years ago
Thank you VERY MUCH Balkh 77 for posting this video. I really enjoy watching it.
TajikKhorasani 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i as an farsiwan a iranian want to appologize!i know many afghan brothers in tehran! all are suffering!but its not us farsiwans who tread u bad!for us persians afghans are the same!pashtu tadjik are our brothers!
but the AZERI TORK GOVERNMENTOF IRAN HATES PERSIAN TRADITION AND CULTURE!
u know tehran is full of azeris and the afghans in tehran sufferd badly even from local people!
but mashad and other persian dominated areas u are welcome!
marcoschulz1 3 years ago
Nice Song..
PanjshirTv 3 years ago
damet garm balkh77
moraghebe khodet bash ...
good lock
LANGhistory 3 years ago 6
سه تن و سه شاخه از يک ريشه ايم -- هم زبان و هم بن و هم پيشه ايم -- توس و بلخ و سغد و شيرازيم ما -- از پدر يک، مادر انبازيم ما -- اين زبان در کوه پامير آن بود -- در دماوند پارسيان را جان بود -- بلخ را با ناصرش حجت نمود -- رودکی را يار با عزت نمود -- سعدی و حافظ را ياد آوريد -- با حکيم توس دل شاد آوريد -- ما يکی و ما يکی و ما يکی -- می شويم باز هم يکی گرديم يکی -- اين قلمرو خطه مايان بود...خطه شاهان با ايمان بود -- راز جم را کی توان از ياد برد -- کورش دانا گرا را داد برد --
Bactrian5000 4 years ago 9
Bactarian5000, Bravo! Wonderful statement! You bring tear to my eyes! How can I appreciate your wonderful thoughts? Our ancestor's FARAVAHARS all with you!
Happy Nowrooz!
Shirio77 3 years ago
Happy Nowroz to you too, and thanks.
Bactrian5000 3 years ago
IRAN
Human Development Index
(Ranks Standard of Living)
12▼ (3) US▼ 0.951
23▼ (1) Israel ▼ 0.932
94▲ (10) Iran▲ 0.759
2007 2008/ The HDI for United States is 0.951, which gives the country a rank of 12th out of 177 countries with data
2007 2008/ The HDI for Iran (Islamic Republic of) is 0.759, which gives the country a rank of 94th out of 177 countries with data
(2007/2008 Human Development Report UNDP)
neoKonscioius 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Terrorizing virgins
Both the mullah (religous cleric) as the interrogator knew full well that this also gave the interrogator permission to rape Nadereh. The interrogator got what he wanted and fulfilled his religious duty in the bargain. Thousands of young women were executed in Iranian prisons (1), most of them were raped under Islamic law.
Shukuh Jalalie
-A list of 1,400 were collected and published by Iranian Political Prisoners Action Committee. Some were pregnant, many were under 17
neoKonscioius 3 years ago
@Bactrian5000
دست، روی و خرد تو مرد بومی این آب و خاک را با این واژه های پر از مهر، که از دل یک پارسی پاک نژاد بیرون میاید، میبوسم
پاینده پارسی
BalkhBastan5000BC 1 year ago 2
The only reason why Tajikistan did not turn into a second Afghanistan run by religious fanatics is because Russian troops are there. Russian puppet Imomali Rahmonov, a Tajikistani president has no power and has to rely on Moscow. Meanwhile Turkey is a democracy. Kazakhstan ruled by Turkic Kazakh is prospering. So is Turkic Azerbaijan. Uzbekistan is suffering but it is ran by Samarqandi Tajik clan that shoots women and children and boils people alive. So who is the savage today?)))
QoziKalon 4 years ago
QoziKalon,
Stop Non-sense! Turkey is a democracy and 30% of people have no right to call themselves "Kurd"? Uzbekistan is suffering because of TAJIKS? What a joke. Kazakhstan is prospering? So is Saudi(!) What about free oil money? Is it a factor too? Come on!
Shirio77 4 years ago
I did not say Uzbekistan is suffering because of Tajiks. I am saying that it is suffering because of the government that is almost entirely made of Tajiks. So it is wrong to blame Uzbeks for oppressing or limiting the rights of Tajiks (as some people on this website claim) because the rulers of the country are Tajiks.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
Qozi, I don't comment on what I don't know but it seems you don't get what I have been trying to tell you over and over. Politicians have no religious, no ethnicity, but POWER. I am talking about WE THE PEOPLE. Stop non-sense accusation.
Shirio77 4 years ago
I do get what you are saying. I am not blaming Tajiks. I am just saying that Uzbeks are not to blame for shutting down Tajik schools and newpapers in Uzbekistan. Our government is Tajik. I do not know why they treat their own people like that. Personally I love Tajik people. Peace.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
QoziKalon, I love Uzbeks personally too. all I am trying o say, it is all about we, THE PEOPLE, not politician or artificial borders. We should create an environment of friendship and overcome the division politician trying to create to destroy us. Love, Peace, Culture and Mutual respect! I am sure you know no Tajik will shoot any Uzbek brothers or sisters unless in self defense.
Shirio77 4 years ago
So if it is the best your civilized Irani government can do, I am not impressed. Besides, if they shut down Tajik schools and newspapers, is it the fault of Uzbeks??? Let's see... Tajik Rabbani and his government failed to do anything useful for Afghanistan. If they were capable of anything Taliban would've never come to power. Iran is run by fanatical mullahs, and before that a tyrannical Shah who opressed his people.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
QoziKalon, Are you suggesting that I am supporting Mullahs of Iran or Shah? This will be very ridiculous. I am talking about people not governments. Please understand Taliban was created and supported by CIA and Pakistani ISA and Saudi money. Massoud and Tajik did their best to stop them with very little support of any country even those who knew they will be next target. but we have to accept that Nothing is perfect in real life.
Shirio77 4 years ago
AAn Yadegare Zand va Avesta Parsist, Parsist!
Parsi rocks!
Love you Fahim jan, Balkh77!!
Shirio77 4 years ago
Din Dabireh or Religious Alphabet is the most scientific alphabet ever developed by human kind. It can record every sounds in nature; It is based on sounds and its way by human in contrary to Hirog of Egyptian or Kanji of East which was developed by creating words according to their actual look. Not to mention even special alphabet for music, Encryption, Statistic, Kings, general,..
Enjoy the beautiful Avestan, Pahlavi and Parsi.
Shirio77 4 years ago
Feruzusmon/QoziKalon and companies:
Now, tell me about linguistic. Let me educate you on very simple facts. What do you know about Alphabet? I know you represent the culture which never developed its own alphabet as other aspects of civilization but did you know Tajik/Persian had 7 Different Alphabet during Sassanid dynasty?
Shirio77 4 years ago
First of all I never intended to connect Japanese with nomadic cultures. There are many nomadic Iranic tribes who are not less primitive than Mongols but for some reasons it is not shameful for Persians. Secondly I could care less how bloody Ottomans were because I am not Ottoman. Neither am I a descendant of Turkic slaves in Egypt or Baghdad. So cut it.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
QoziKalon, First, Nomad Civilization is different with having nomads in culture. Second, thanks for clearing Japanese issue. Third, happy to hear that you are not Ottoman. Then, may I ask why trying to disturb great relationship between Uzbeks and Tajiks? We have great understanding and respect for each other and we all understand, our friendship is crucial for a prosper Great Khurasan.
Shirio77 4 years ago
I am not trying to disturb our relationships. I am simply opposed to any Pan-Turkist, Pan-Iranist, Pan-Islamic or whatever "Pan" ideas. The best thing for Central Asia is to unite, but without intervention from outsiders such as Iran or Turkey. United not because we are Turkic or Iranic but because we share the same motherland.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
QoziKalon, Are you saying this song is advocating PAN anything? This song is advocating protection of cultural heritage and if you have any sense instead of non-sense accusation, you can visit any country in the world and see by yourself how they try to protect their cultural heritage.
Shirio77 4 years ago
My comments have nothing to do with this song. The song is beautiful. My comments started as a response to some other comments.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
QoziKalon.
Thanks for clarification, because I am sure a person like you knows very well that preserving a culture is responsibility of EVERY CULTURED PERSON no matter which culture he/she comes from! I look forward for your help to create a wonderful relationship between our two communities. This will be just the start!
Shirio77 4 years ago
QoziKalon,
Speak facts and get respond or just stop non-sense! I know what you are trying to say and what you present, though, I am well devoted to truth! You can speak your true intention and get a proper respond! This is the heritage of PARSI's culture!
Shirio77 2 years ago
What non-sense? Give me an example of non-sense that I spoke.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
QoziKalon,
If you go back to the comment you have been posted on this or other clip, you will see what I mean. "Tajik from Samarqand are responsible for all problem in Uzbekistan", YET, education in Dari is forbidden. Your UN_Supported and claims on numbers of Dari speaking, yet, advocating Pan-Turkism in all your clip and yet claiming Pan-??? when you are challenged...... Come on!
Shirio77 2 years ago
You are funny dude. You are not quoting me. You misunderstand what I am trying to say and then present your assumptions as my own words). I never said this: "Tajiks from Samarqand are responsible for all problem in Uzbekistan." I simply said that Uzbekistani president and many government officials are Tajik. I said it in response to a false claim that Tajiks are suffering under a "fascist Uzbek regime". And could you give my quote to prove that I am Pan-Turkist please) I am waiting)
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Well! You are trying to get away from what you said! But it is okay! You are trying to justify TAJIKS's Right to educate in their language because some one used some Tajik from Samarqnd to forbid Tajik lnguange? Why?
Shirio77 2 years ago
I am not trying to get away from my words. I am trying to get away from your false accusations. I did not say "Tajiks from Samarqand are responsible for all problems in Uzbekistan." I simply didn't. And no one used some Tajik from Samarqand to forbid Tajik language. That Tajik from Samarqand is president Karimov. There is no person in Uzbekistan who can use him. He boils people alive!!! Try using that guy).
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Officially Tajiks are 5% of Uzbekistan's population. Let's say that this number is wrong. Let's say that Pan-Iranists are right and 100% of population of Bukhara and Samarqand is Tajik (even though it is not so). Population of Uzbekistan is 27,372,000. Population of Samarqand and Bukhara combined is 833,000. It is about 3% of the population. Let's add official 5% on the top of it. That equals to 8%. Let's make it 10% so that no one can blame us for being anti-Tajik.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
QoziKalon! The point is where do you get your STATISTIC! My research show over 45% are Tajik! Show me your resources and I tell you what I come from!
Shirio77 2 years ago
You base it on research. I base it on actual truth. I lived in Uzbekistan all my life. You have probably never been there. My suggestion to you is to travel to all major Uzbekistani cities and towns and speak Tajik to people on the streets. You will not be understood, unless you speak to a native Bukharan or Samarqandi. That is simply the way it is. My resource is my personal experience. I lived there all my life, worked in most major cities, traveled to most major towns.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
QoziKalon,
Since you lived all your life in Uzbekistan under COMMUNIST Rule, let me educate you more! Truth is different from reality! This is Marx statement, isn't that? Why he said so? Spell it and hear the facts!
Shirio77 2 years ago
By the way, the reason I only calculated the population of Samarqand and Bukhara as being Tajik is because no other cities of Uzbekistan speak Tajik. You can't find a single Tajik village even in the countryside around Samarqand. I understand that you may find it insulting that Tajiks don't constitute the majority of population of Tashkent, Andijon, Margilon, Namangan, Shahrisabz, Khiva, Urganch and other cities. But guess what, Beijing and Tokyo are not predominantly Tajik either. So don't cry.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
QoziKallon!
Facts are facts! Come on and smell the facts! Egypt is one of the oldest culture in the World yet, they consider themselves! as ARAB! Can you believe that?
Shirio77 2 years ago
I can believe that Egyptians consider themselves Arabs. That's the way history goes. The French do not consider themselves to be Celtic Gauls, though Gauls are their ancestors. Why? Because Gauls mixed with Germanic Franks who arrived later. Now they are a new ethnicity and have a new identity, and language. Mixture of people (ethnic groups) is just like mixture of wines, or gases. The end result of mixture is not the same as initial ingredients.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
QoziKalon,
Indeed! Egyptians consider themselves as arabs! But you are wrong! this is not the way History goes to INTELLECTUALS! This is the way history goes to COMMONS! Challenge me and get the respond!
Your next example is so foolish I should not even consider! French and Celtic or even Germans are share same roots in history if you pay a bit of attention!
Shirio77 2 years ago
It does not matter how the History goes to Intellectuals. Intellectuals can come up with all kinds of weird ideas. Communism is a product of intellectuals. Sounds logical on paper but does not work. Pan-Turkism is an intellectual product. It did not start just because some Turkish peasants all of a sudden began feeling a cultural bond with some nomads in Mongolia (there is no bond by the way). The reality and dreams of intellectuals are not always the same thing.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
QoziKalon,
Your statistic doesn't matter! Facts are facts! Tell me< just because Egyptian consider themselves arab or Lebanese consider themselves so or probably Anatoly consider themselves Turk, make it sense to you? Just judge your conscientious if you still have one!
Shirio77 2 years ago
And by the way, you said that advocate Pan-Turkism in all my clips. Give me and example. All videos I uploaded on You Tube are Uzbek songs. The fact that I did not place Tajik subtitles (sorry) does not mean that I am Pan-Turkist. The only video that is not a musical clip is a video about Samarqand and Bukhara that I uploaded. But the song that I included in that clip is in Tajik!!! To honor Tajik heritage of the two cities! If I was a Pan-Turkist I would've included a song in Uzbek.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
There is a Turkic runic alphabet. Proves of it can be found all over the Great Steppe. Sure they did not build palaces or temples but you see, there is no need of building for nomads. They move with herds, so it is not practical. It does not mean that they are dumber than Persians or Greeks. Nomadic cattle-raising is a form of adaptation to environment. It was more practical to herd than to cultivate in Mongolia.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
Nomadic societies do not develop technologies because there is no need for them and not because they are stupid or brutal. The only tool a shepherd needs is a whip which does not need improvement. I could go on and on but it is not the main subject of our discussion.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
The truth is: Uzbekistani president Islom Karimov is a Tajik from Samarqand. The man who put him to power is Ismoil Jurabekov - a Tajik. Shawkat Mirziyaev, prime-minister - Tajik. Mullojonov, head of Central Bank - Tajik. Polvon-Zoda, minister of Justice - Tajik. All important government posts in Uzbeksitan are occupied by Samarqandi Tajiks. They same people shot dead 500 women, children, and elderly protesters in Andijan in 2005. They ran Central Asia's richest country to poverty.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
13. History is the best witness and every one except Turk themselves knows what happened to 1.5 Million Armenian just now in 20 century, not to mention daily struggle of 30% of total population of turkey, KURDS a pure Iranian Tribes, for their very basic rights to call themselves KURD instead of "Mountain Turk!!!" or even choose Kurdish name. This is the reason Anatolia became Turkey! Should I go on for other so-called 360 million Turks?.
Shirio77 4 years ago
Also you attempts to blame other Turkic nations for what Ottomans did are pointless. Uzbeks did not kill Armenians. Neither did Tatars. Nor Uighurs. As far as so called attempts of Uzbekistans "Pan-Turkist fascist regime" to stripe Tajiks of their identity I should tell you what many of you outsiders refuse to understand.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
QoziKalon,
I never blame anyone for someone else guilt. As a matter of fact, I have been always a great advocate of brotherhood and mutual respects between Uzbeks, Tajiks and Hazara. It takes us all to rebuild a great regions rather than falling into trap and fight between ourself. Northern Alliance is a great example that we have to build on.
Shirio77 4 years ago
12. Now, let see who were the Yeni Cheri, the proud of Turks. Majority of Yeni cheri army, were just innocent boys taken as slave during European invasion and after killing their parents (Mostly Bulgar, Rumanian, Serbs, etc). They were isolated and train to kill in order to survive. These kids never enjoy the warmth of family, so lacked any feeling. They were trained to kill even their own masters and easy killing machine in hands of Turk caliphs and their Pashas.
Shirio77 4 years ago
11. We can go on and write about these so-called caliphs forever but this should be enough for curious mind to start his/her own research.
Shirio77 4 years ago
10. This serial of "Blood and death" was continue during 300 years of Ottoman ruling killing millions of innocent people including their own relative for thirst of power and wealth. For those interested I refer Great European researcher D. Cantemir: "The history of the Grouth and decay of the Ottoman Empire" London 1758. Or J. von Hammer: "Geschichte des Osmanischen Reish, 10 vols, Budapest1827-1835. Let me know if you need more reference and your language of choice!!!
Shirio77 4 years ago
8. During his 8 years rule, the land was a blood bath every day. 400 traders were killed because they trade with Iran. This statistic is just tip of Iceberg.
9. Sultan Soleyman the second Ottoman Caliph was not even better. He killed several of his own sons and grandsons, including the talented Poet Mustafa (Mohebi) who has several Poem books all in PERSIAN.
Shirio77 4 years ago
7. Getting back to Salim the founder of Ottoman Caliph, he killed over 40,000 on suspicion of being Shia in one week before famous Chaldoran War when his 240,000 Yeni Cheri Army armed with Canon and artilleries facing only 28,000 Persian army. And even funnier, despite their initial win, this was the first time in history, a wining army left behind all its artilleries and run away in few weeks!
Shirio77 4 years ago
6. Even worse, Sultan Murad the 3rd had 103 children and only 20 sons and 27 daughters survived. Out of 20 sons, his successor Sultan mohammad the 3rd killed 19 of his own brothers according this Fatwa.
Shirio77 4 years ago
5. Sultan Salim the first, start his ruling by poisoning his own father. He killed all his own brothers including their wives and children. This was not enough, he killed 3 of his own sons (Morad, Mahmoud, & Abdallah) and he was planning to kill his last son Soleyman but a miracle saved him. A fatwa legitimized killing brothers and children in order to strengthen ruling!!!!
Shirio77 4 years ago
cont..
Turks start another chapter of conquering lands in behalf of Islam but their power was LIMITED to Military power and until the end, they were disable to build a CIVILIZATION of their own. They were satisfied to the taking advantage of civilizations they took over without adding to them on their own. Consequently they went backward and their era closed to its end. ......... "
Shirio77 4 years ago
4. Getting back to Ottoman Caliphs and looking at their shameful achievements, there have been many books written by European. Perhaps I should include some opinion from "Gustave le Bon" where in his book "Civilization des Arabes" P468-469, he states: "The end of Arab rule came at the day when by the same SWORD they took power, they were overrun by Turks. cont..
Shirio77 4 years ago
cont..
Perhaps no one can even give an accurate number of how many innocent people were killed during these time and how many people abandoned their culture identity to save their life. A dark era in human Civilization.
Shirio77 4 years ago
3. Upon meeting two DESERT GROWN Civilization (Arab and Turk), Turks (and later Mongol in some degree) became very interested in Islam, especially in its teaching of Holly wars that both satisfy their thirst for blood, and allowing them to kill innocent civilians, enslave their wives/children and take over all their belonging ALL IN THE NAME OF GOD, not to mention, still a PROMISE to have a place in HEAVEN!!!!!
Shirio77 4 years ago
cont..
Bagha, atamash, Baibag, Kalabtin during Motevakel Abasi Caliphs are examples. Refer to Edward G. Browne Book "History of Iranian Litreture" Vol.1 P504.
Shirio77 4 years ago
2. Turks were originally brought to the Baghdad as slaves either as part of regional Tax of great Khurasan or sold individually by slave traders. These slaves actually were taken by the Turk tribes who converted to Islam not directly by arabs (Slaves taken according to Islamic law). These slaves later became very influential officers in Caliph's army over time because of their loyalty to execute savage orders to kill and massacre opposition's voice.
Shirio77 4 years ago
1. Ottoman Caliphs officially start their ruling after conquering Egypt in 1517 A.D (Renaissance Era in Europe and starting another Darkness era in Middle east) and continue their ruling until in 1924 A.D National congress of modern turkey (Ataturk recommendation) officially replace Caliph system with modern government. There were 28 Turk Caliphs and Sultan Salim was the first one.
Shirio77 4 years ago
cont..
Having said so, let me provide you with some facts that these people NOT ONLY they cannot tolerate other cultural heritage BUT ALSO they cannot tolerate each other when it comes to power. Any one taking a simple course in history in Near East and Central Asia in last 800 years have probably heard of Ottoman Caliphs as the glorious of Turkish history (let ignore their two gREAT Khans for a moment and get back to them later).
Shirio77 4 years ago
cont..
This clip is a beautiful peace of art, promoting respect for cultural heritage and identity, consequently any CIVILIZED person with any CULTURAL background, will appreciate it. Obviously some who never gave rise to any true civilization but in their best, build on others cultural heritage, instead of appreciation, they are trying to spam and divert the discussion, hoping they can encourage people to abandon their heritage and assimilate in their so-called 360 million fantasy world.
Shirio77 4 years ago
Though, you are NOT here to prove so. Is this jealously? Partly yes BUT mainly, this is part of STATE SUPPORTED Champaign to suppress further the Tajik society and force them to give away their identity and great cultural heritage. This has been systematically exercised in central Asia over last few centuries. Tolerance is the basic element and fundamental of any true civilized society but unfortunately it is lacked here even in 21st century.
Shirio77 4 years ago
cont..
Trying to attach Japanese to a NOMADIC primitive way of life exercised in Gobi desert by Turkish and Mongol tribe which NEVER gave rise to any real Civilization and height of their tent was their greatest achievement in architect, is a CRUEL COMPARISON.
Shirio77 4 years ago
Feruzusmon/QoziKalon and companies:
Let get right to point. If you are here to prove that Japanese is part of Altaic language, I have already proved you wrong and you confessed this is not what main stream school of thought (at least partially). Japanese civilization is very old and mature with very unique beautiful characterization and without any doubt a great contribution to human Society.
Shirio77 4 years ago
What's worse is that both camps are trying to get other Turkic and Iranic nations involved and spread their hateful ideologies among us. Our Tajiks are sweethearts. They are nice and friendly people without prejudices. Hate to brag but Uzbeks are the same. Can't speak for those in Afghanistan but in Soviet Central Asia they live like brothers. So, please, save us from Persian and Turkish imperial metastasis. Do the world a favor. Fight a war in between each other. But leave us alone!!!
QoziKalon 4 years ago
I understand where you are coming from though. I've read some of Turkish "researches" that are trying to prove that Japanese and Koreans, Hungarians, and Iranic Avars, Massagets, Saks, Alans where actually Turks. To me they are worse then Persian whinos because they waste paper. Most of their books are too stupid to read and too hard to whipe my a**. Save a tree, stop writing and do something useful my Pan-Turkist friends.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
Do you guys have a problem using a bathroom? You never know, there may be a Turk hiding down them tubes ready to grab you when you are sitting on it. Boo!!!) Anatolian Turks are not better either. They are busy trying to prove the world that every nation comes from ancient Turks. They print countless "researches" and "historical" books on how ancient Turks ruled most of the known world, and how they were blue eyed, blond warriors (ha,ha,ha).
QoziKalon 4 years ago
Armenians are kinda same. Nice people but if you read their newspapers it's all about a genocide. It was a terrible thing but get over it. Is there nothing else left in the world? Jews faced much worse persecution but they are not dwelling on it. They don't have a "victim" sindrome. Persians and Armenians on the other hand see "an evil Turkish hand" and conspiracy in everything.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
Anatolian Turks and Persians are probably the most arrogant people one can meet. The problem of both is that they are what I call "victim" nations. All you hear from them is whining about their "lost empires" and how it is the fault of everyone around them. At the same time they consider everyone around them as "barbarians".
QoziKalon 4 years ago
Apart from our Japanese argument I have to tell you and all Pan-Iranists and Pan-Turksits who may be reading this. Stay out of Central Asia. You are not welcome to the north of Amu Darya. Stay the f*** in Iran and Anatolia. You are bad influence.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
On the other hand their German and Russian counterparts are the most meticulous and accurate when it comes to bibliography and research. They are much more accurate. Especially Germans. So hate to say that, Americans may be better when it comes to technologies but when it comes to ethnography no one comes close to Europeans.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
Well, most of my Professors were Germans and neither were even close to agree with you 9at least one originally believed so but he rejected later). I have already mentioned two names so far but for security purpose i won't give you more name.
Shirio77 4 years ago
I am not backing off from Standford professors. There are several theories in regards to Japanese language. So, no one can really claim that a particular theory is an absolute truth. That is why they are called "theories". But Altaic theory is widely accepted in Europe, Russia and by many Japanese scholars. So, you can't really accuse me of lying because I defend a very legitimate point of view.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
QoziKalon, then let me ask you for an example of any Altaic language having three consequent vowel, keeping the original sound not a mixture!
Shirio77 4 years ago
Sure there is a debate that still goes on. But majority of world's linguists leans towards Altaic family. Americans are an exception. But you see, US historians and ethnographers are known for their love of sensations, trying to prove whatever is widely accepted to be wrong.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
Your anti American feeling is well noticed thought, the fact is, almost all European are in harmony with American scientist. Not to mention, majority of US Scholars have deep root in Europe.
Shirio77 4 years ago
Altaic theory simply has more weight and fact to it than Dravidian or Austronesian theory. And if you really knew anything about ethnography you would've known about a heated debate between many European scholars and American ones in regards to Japanese language. Instead, you accused me of making the whole thing up, called me a liar and called my sources fake.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
Most of todays Altaic languages have vowel harmony but Proto-Altaic as reconstructed by Starostin lacked it -- instead various vowel assimilations between the first and second syllables of words occurred in Turkic, Mongolic, Tungusic, Korean, and Japonic.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
vowel harmony is not specific to Altaic languages neither vowel assimilation between first and second syllables. Actually the vowel assimilation between first and second in Japanese is silent so unless you can read Kanji, or Hiragan, or katakana, by Romanji, there is very hard without previous experiment to pronounce it correctly. The other exception is the last syllables which sound silent to foreigners.
Shirio77 4 years ago
Read Publication of An Etymological Dictionary of the Altaic Languages by S. Starostin, A. Dybo, and O. Mudrak in 2003. Result of 20 years of work it contains 2800 proposed cognate sets, complete set of regular sound correspondences, number of grammatical correspondences, and a few important changes to reconstruction of Proto-Altaic.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
Why are you backing off from your Stanford Professors, including Japanese scholars? The website I refer you, has the latest agreed work in Linguistic. It makes no sense to refer to book that not many people here has access to, even though I assure you there is nothing but excluding Japanese there. Why don't you refer to some accessible source to everyone here?
Shirio77 4 years ago
Sure. Why don't you go to Wikipedia and type in Altaic languages. Tell me what you see in the right column))) Or go to altaica dot ru and click "switch to english". Or go to starling dot rinet dot ru to read about late Sergei Starostin one of worlds greatest linguists. I know that you will accuse him of making things up, and insult a great man not even knowing him simply because he disagrees with your point of view. But hey... It is your sin, not mine so go ahead.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
QoziKalon, Wiki is not a source in first place. Any one from supported site can edit it. I have done it several times. try another trick.
Shirio77 4 years ago
feruzusmon,
Dr. Frye the father of Near eastern study in Harvard university once said: " I went to Central Asia to complete my research on the history and culture of region. It was then that I realized I need to learn Farsi FIRST". Watch his clip on utube by searching "Richard Frye, Harvard Professor Iran Lover".
Shirio77 4 years ago
Knowledge of Farsi in Central Asia is only valuable in Afghanistan and Tajikistan. And in two cities of Samarqand and Bukhara and a few villages in Uzbekistan. The main and largest part of Central Asia does not speak Farsi.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
QoziKalon,
During campaign of Turkification of region, many Tajiks or people of mixed background were forced to adapt some sort of turkish dialect to avoid massacre or harassment in later days, though they kept their culture. This is also true in Anatolia and other area were some turk tribes emigrated. What Dr. Frye is pointing out is not the simple one factor but the culture in motion for survival.
Shirio77 4 years ago
Feruzusmon,
Read it from China xinhuanet where the Civilization first started. The facts are showing up now.(replace space with dot)
//news xinhuanet com:80/english/2007-08/10/content_6508609.htm
Shirio77 4 years ago
I cannot rely on Chinese or Turkish sources when it comes to East Turkistan. Both are biased. And why do you have to so agressive. Why would I want to kill the Hans in Uighur region? How about Hans conducting nuclear tests in the region poisoning and slowly killing Uighurs? How about forced abortions of Uighur women? You are quite a humanist I see. Oh, poor Hans. And Uighurs and their suffering is nothing for you. You are a racist.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
QoziKalon,
I am a discipline of Western Universities and school of thought. I have never used any Chinese, or Turkish or even Persian (except 2 extraordinary Sources, Professors Moghadam & poorDavood because of their devotion to science). Calling me a racist is showing your true face, looking at mirror. I have always support XinJiang's real inhabitants' right (including Tajiks) to whatever political system they prefer.
Shirio77 4 years ago
Feruzusmon,
Trying to argue on something you don't understand and trying to distort the facts won't give you any credit sonny! Why don't you educate yourself before posting a comment? Don't try to build on lies.
Shirio77 4 years ago
Anton Boller was first to iclude Japanese to Altaic family in 1857. As a result of decades-long work, G.J. Ramstedt's book Einführung in die altaische Sprachwissenschaft included both Japanese and Korean in Altaic family.
QoziKalon 4 years ago
QoziKalon, you are just getting to the point I explained at very early stage of discussion. This was just initial theory and for the lack of full understanding. Give you an example, Professor Schwartz earlier wrote a paper on the subject but only few years ago, he published papers and rejected his own initial believes. Not only on Altaic but also on Avestan and Sanskrit. This is typical in the field. If you wish I can also refer you on several contradicting papers on Dravidian as well.
Shirio77 4 years ago
If you doubt foreign sources I can suggest reading few works of Ruhlen or Greenberg. They are from Stanford. By the way, Mr.Greenberg is Jewish so I don't think that he is biased or is a Pan-Tukist))
feruzusmon 4 years ago
Feruz,
Who you are trying to fool here? I attend very often in all ligu conferences in Stanford and I tell you that NO ONE in Stanford or generally speaking any Bay Area Universities (Berkeley as well) believe Japanese is an Altaic neither Chinese. Try another trick man.
Shirio77 4 years ago