what do you expect when both these turntables are made in the same factory in china. Go with high end turntables they are still made in the USA or Europe
@Joespencer92 Elliptical is the best, and can be easily found on eBay, at least from U.S. sellers. Just type in "PS-LX250H (or whatever your model number is) upgrade".
I'm looking at buying the Pioneer but I was just wondering a few things. Would you say that this is definately the best for both sound while not spending a whole lot, or is there another brand/model that you would recommend? Also I keep hearing that USB turntables will "eat" the vinyl over time. Is there any truth to this? (I have a fair amount of LPs but my old record player broke and I need a replacement. I don't know too much about the modern turntables.)
@lemmonorange68 The Pioneer PL-990 is an excellent value for the money. I have used mine extensively and it has always treated my records gently. Some USB turntables are good, such as the ones by Sony, Audio Technica, and Denon, but most are very poor, including all of the "nostalgic" record players by companies like Crosley. They are built very cheaply, sound terrible, and often ruin your records. Google "USB turntable comparison" for more info on the good ones and the bad ones.
my turntable has the same tonearm. i must post a video of my turntable. i was just playing Off The Wall LP by michael jackson. it sounds great, as i've moved it into my room so its easier to transfer to the pc.
@mikeyskywalker As shipped from the factory, the Pioneer has its built-in phono preamp wired to be permanently on, so it will only work with a line-level input (Aux, CD, Tape, etc.). To use the Pioneer with a phono input, you'd need to remove the jumpers and install the missing on/off switch on its preamp board, as I show in the video.
Well, in this case, neither turntable is really better in any appreciable aspect; one has an additional feature over the other but, aside from being able to change pitch, both will have virtually an identical sound.
FYI, both those turntables were designed and manufactured by AudioTechnica under an OEM basis for Sony and Pioneer.
AudioTechnica has also made a turntable for Teac based on the same basic platform that these two models were built on.
As I explain in the video (did you watch the whole thing before commenting?), both have exactly the same sound quality. It's only a matter of difference in features. The Pioneer has the strobe and pitch adjustment, while the Sony does not.
You know, I find it interesting that you can find new turntables in 2009. The whole 'back to vinyl' thing has me a bit befuddled. Not something that I thought I'd ever see... :) JC
Audiophiles say vinyl gives a "warmer" or "cleaner" sound than CD's and especially MP3's. I myself can't tell the difference, but with the availability of turntables that can record your vinyl to CD or MP3 format, the vinyl format is a lot more viable now than it was back then if you want to listen to it in the car or on the go. Funny how high-tech products can make a low-tech format popular again!
I go back long enough to remember cueing up 45's and LP's to play on the radio. I was so tickled when CD's came along... No more phase shift, surface noise, IM distortion or annoying scratches to worry about. Vinyl sounds warmer than CD's because of the aggressive EQ they have to do to cut the audio into the groove and is not because records are better at reproducing audio, which they aren't. You can get the same effect playing a CD through an EQ and warming up the sound a bit. :) JC
All true, but mastering can play a huge role in the resulting audio quality of all media. Compare a modern "digitally remastered" CD that has been compressed and clipped to within an inch of its life to a clean copy of the original LP, and guess which one will sound better? If I filter out the pops and ticks from my original LP of The Eagles' "Hotel California" and then burn it to CD, it sounds better than any official CD re-issue I have been able to find.
Can't argue with you there... I have the very first issues of "Hotel California" and it sounds awesome. I don't know what the later versions sounded like. :) JC
The warmer sound of an LP is just the natural analog sound, it is the real sound where a CD is a computer's interpretation of the music., and In over sampling there are bits and pieces of harmonics that are lost. I have always detected the digital sound of a lot of CDs, especially brass, and it shows up more on more expensive sound equipment. Some audio equipment itself has a more harsh sound. Equalizers don't help CDs for me. My neighbor doesn't seem to be able to tell the difference.
I'm not an "analog purist" but I will say that the mastering using during the production of an album plays a huge role in the ultimate audio quality you hear. There are a lot of bad sounding LPs and a lot of great sounding CDs. But since the early '90s, CDs have been on a never-ending quest for more and more loudness, both on new albums and on re-releases of older music. So, I just prefer the best sounding audio I can get, regardless if it is in digital or analog form.
I agree there were some really bad sounding LPs and 45's as well, and the mastering is very important. I have some CDs that have good sound quality, but usually prefer a good LP over a good CD, but like you, will go with whatever has the best sound. I have an indentical album on CD and LP, and I prefer the LP with the warmer and more detailed sound. I also prefer to hear the original 78 records over those remastered releases that sound flat and lifeless.
To each his own... I have been involved with professional audio since I was 15. I have recorded everything from lectures to radio commercials to rock bands. I've heard my work played back on every format and the CD does the best job of faithfully reproducing the original. Another reason I am not jazzed about the LP's return is the fact that most of them are mastered from digital sources today. So, if an LP is mastered from a 44.1/16 digital source, what's the point? Get the CD... :) JC
Hi JC your point is well taken with the new LPs made from a digital source. I have not tried any of the new LPs. The CD is still not the best source of sound, they now know they really dropped the ball on creating CDs. DVDs are superior to CDs in sound quality. CDs should have been made to DVD standards in the first place, and now it would be rather expensive to convert. Check out How stuff works, on how DVDs work, very interesting.
We were comparing audio CD's to vinyl LP's... DVD's and CD's are a different story. You're now talking about the difference between 44.1/16 and 96/24 digital. DVD- A is, in many ways, a better format but it is not mainstream and most likely will never be. 'Nuff said... :) JC
The "warm and airy" sound can be due to various things in the LP chain, such as the effects of the RIAA curve when emphasized on the recording used to cut the master disc and de-emphasized in the phono preamp to equalize the signal.
Usually, the RIAA EQ may not be perfectly implemented, particularly in the preamp on the playback end, which can introduce artifacts that can be euphonic in the final sound that you will hear.
Objectively, LPs are not a precise analog to the original master recording because of numerous factors, including the RIAA curve. However, subjectively that doesn't matter so long as it still sounds good.
As for oversampling, you need to brush up on your knowledge there.
Oversampling with CD is basically converting a 44.1 kHz signal into a higher form depending on the multiple. For instance, 8x oversampling means a 44.1 kHz signal is turned into a 352.8 kHz signal.
The purpose is to push aliasing into higher regions in the sound band, so a less complex and less destructive filter is needed to remove aliasing.
1st gen. CD players with no oversampling used high order filters in the analog stage to remove aliasing. The 44.1 kHz sampling rate only provides about 2.05 kHz of headroom for aliasing above the audible limit (about 20 kHz). That's not much headroom plus the fact that aliasing occurs at a relatively low range, close to the audible range. Designing a high order filter that will work properly (filter the signal without causing unacceptable artifacts to the final sound) is hard and expensive.
With oversampling, you push the aliasing into the ultrasonic range without affecting the recorded sound, well above the audible limit of the signal, which means you have loads of headroom and the aliasing is placed far enough away from the audible elements that a simpler, less aggressive filter of low order can be used in the analog stage.
Radio Shack has sold their version of it under no less than five different brand names: "Optimus," "RCA," "RadioShack," "Presidian," and for their Canadian "The Source" stores, "Nexxtech."
Yup, I bought it from radio shack. I had it from 2004-06. It had a plastic platter and it was a little warped and had the tendancy to be louder out of the right channel. I got fed up with it and got something better. I sold it at a garage sale for like 25 bucks or something.
@vwestlife Interestingly, Radio Shack's own version of the turntable, sold under many different brand names (I have the Nexxtech-branded one), has a plastic platter instead of the better aluminum one found on all the other turntables of this same array.
that is so cool its like sony and pioneer used the same manufacturing instructions but they both used a slightly different design, one used the strobe and one had a preamp switch and the other didnt. and Is that your Tandy 1000 computer that I see?
sony and pioneer were once totally different companies now by the looks of their turntables it looks like they merged
jogmas12 1 month ago
what do you expect when both these turntables are made in the same factory in china. Go with high end turntables they are still made in the USA or Europe
jogmas12 1 month ago
I have a sony turntable and am having trouble in removing the cartridge. How do i do it? Its just like yours in this video. Cheers
Joespencer92 7 months ago
@Joespencer92 You cannot remove the cartridge. It is glued into place.
If you mean removing the stylus (needle) instead, follow the instructions in the owner's manual.
vwestlife 7 months ago
@vwestlife Ah okay cheers. that is annoying though, i wanted to get another. What sort of stylus would i need? Or could i just get any?
Joespencer92 7 months ago
@Joespencer92 Elliptical is the best, and can be easily found on eBay, at least from U.S. sellers. Just type in "PS-LX250H (or whatever your model number is) upgrade".
vwestlife 7 months ago
I thought these were Japanese.
mattsprinter 8 months ago
Wow. Thanks mate! Btw, what stereo speakers would you recommend for these type of turntables? I'm new to vinyl that's why. :)
ninenine909 1 year ago
Do you recommend these turntables more than a Crosley available at Target?
ninenine909 1 year ago
@ninenine909 Yes, this is a MAJOR step up in quality compared to the cheap ceramic cartridge mechanism those "retro" record players all use.
vwestlife 1 year ago
what exactly is pre-amp? and what is the difference between it being on or off?
GreendayGuy30 1 year ago
@GreendayGuy30 Google "all about phono preamps".
vwestlife 1 year ago
What is the strobe light for?
sandrochatlos1 1 year ago
@sandrochatlos1 So you can check if the turntable is spinning at the correct speed.
vwestlife 1 year ago
I'm looking at buying the Pioneer but I was just wondering a few things. Would you say that this is definately the best for both sound while not spending a whole lot, or is there another brand/model that you would recommend? Also I keep hearing that USB turntables will "eat" the vinyl over time. Is there any truth to this? (I have a fair amount of LPs but my old record player broke and I need a replacement. I don't know too much about the modern turntables.)
Please respond :)
lemmonorange68 1 year ago
@lemmonorange68 The Pioneer PL-990 is an excellent value for the money. I have used mine extensively and it has always treated my records gently. Some USB turntables are good, such as the ones by Sony, Audio Technica, and Denon, but most are very poor, including all of the "nostalgic" record players by companies like Crosley. They are built very cheaply, sound terrible, and often ruin your records. Google "USB turntable comparison" for more info on the good ones and the bad ones.
vwestlife 1 year ago
@vwestlife thanks a lot!
lemmonorange68 1 year ago
"vwestlife" ! What do you think about this pioneer turntable?
standolit 1 year ago
@standolit It's a little flimsy, but sounds pretty good, especially for the price.
vwestlife 1 year ago
my turntable has the same tonearm. i must post a video of my turntable. i was just playing Off The Wall LP by michael jackson. it sounds great, as i've moved it into my room so its easier to transfer to the pc.
CenaTv2 1 year ago
So would I have to turn the phono input off if I use this with my Panasonic stereo?
mikeyskywalker 1 year ago
@mikeyskywalker As shipped from the factory, the Pioneer has its built-in phono preamp wired to be permanently on, so it will only work with a line-level input (Aux, CD, Tape, etc.). To use the Pioneer with a phono input, you'd need to remove the jumpers and install the missing on/off switch on its preamp board, as I show in the video.
vwestlife 1 year ago
I saw your video and I was thinking about my aiwa px-850 and is
practically equal to 2 sony models and the pioneer you
comhece.
messiasalvador 1 year ago
Well, in this case, neither turntable is really better in any appreciable aspect; one has an additional feature over the other but, aside from being able to change pitch, both will have virtually an identical sound.
FYI, both those turntables were designed and manufactured by AudioTechnica under an OEM basis for Sony and Pioneer.
AudioTechnica has also made a turntable for Teac based on the same basic platform that these two models were built on.
Watcher3223 2 years ago
so which is better?
dirtycoffee22 2 years ago
As I explain in the video (did you watch the whole thing before commenting?), both have exactly the same sound quality. It's only a matter of difference in features. The Pioneer has the strobe and pitch adjustment, while the Sony does not.
vwestlife 2 years ago
You know, I find it interesting that you can find new turntables in 2009. The whole 'back to vinyl' thing has me a bit befuddled. Not something that I thought I'd ever see... :) JC
BadEditPro 2 years ago
Vinyl sales increased 15% in 2007 and 89% in 2008. That's still a very small slice of the pie, but meanwhile CD sales are dropping every year.
vwestlife 2 years ago
Audiophiles say vinyl gives a "warmer" or "cleaner" sound than CD's and especially MP3's. I myself can't tell the difference, but with the availability of turntables that can record your vinyl to CD or MP3 format, the vinyl format is a lot more viable now than it was back then if you want to listen to it in the car or on the go. Funny how high-tech products can make a low-tech format popular again!
kevin12567 2 years ago
I go back long enough to remember cueing up 45's and LP's to play on the radio. I was so tickled when CD's came along... No more phase shift, surface noise, IM distortion or annoying scratches to worry about. Vinyl sounds warmer than CD's because of the aggressive EQ they have to do to cut the audio into the groove and is not because records are better at reproducing audio, which they aren't. You can get the same effect playing a CD through an EQ and warming up the sound a bit. :) JC
BadEditPro 2 years ago
All true, but mastering can play a huge role in the resulting audio quality of all media. Compare a modern "digitally remastered" CD that has been compressed and clipped to within an inch of its life to a clean copy of the original LP, and guess which one will sound better? If I filter out the pops and ticks from my original LP of The Eagles' "Hotel California" and then burn it to CD, it sounds better than any official CD re-issue I have been able to find.
vwestlife 2 years ago
Can't argue with you there... I have the very first issues of "Hotel California" and it sounds awesome. I don't know what the later versions sounded like. :) JC
BadEditPro 2 years ago
The warmer sound of an LP is just the natural analog sound, it is the real sound where a CD is a computer's interpretation of the music., and In over sampling there are bits and pieces of harmonics that are lost. I have always detected the digital sound of a lot of CDs, especially brass, and it shows up more on more expensive sound equipment. Some audio equipment itself has a more harsh sound. Equalizers don't help CDs for me. My neighbor doesn't seem to be able to tell the difference.
maynardcat 2 years ago
I'm not an "analog purist" but I will say that the mastering using during the production of an album plays a huge role in the ultimate audio quality you hear. There are a lot of bad sounding LPs and a lot of great sounding CDs. But since the early '90s, CDs have been on a never-ending quest for more and more loudness, both on new albums and on re-releases of older music. So, I just prefer the best sounding audio I can get, regardless if it is in digital or analog form.
vwestlife 2 years ago
I agree there were some really bad sounding LPs and 45's as well, and the mastering is very important. I have some CDs that have good sound quality, but usually prefer a good LP over a good CD, but like you, will go with whatever has the best sound. I have an indentical album on CD and LP, and I prefer the LP with the warmer and more detailed sound. I also prefer to hear the original 78 records over those remastered releases that sound flat and lifeless.
maynardcat 2 years ago
To each his own... I have been involved with professional audio since I was 15. I have recorded everything from lectures to radio commercials to rock bands. I've heard my work played back on every format and the CD does the best job of faithfully reproducing the original. Another reason I am not jazzed about the LP's return is the fact that most of them are mastered from digital sources today. So, if an LP is mastered from a 44.1/16 digital source, what's the point? Get the CD... :) JC
BadEditPro 2 years ago
Hi JC your point is well taken with the new LPs made from a digital source. I have not tried any of the new LPs. The CD is still not the best source of sound, they now know they really dropped the ball on creating CDs. DVDs are superior to CDs in sound quality. CDs should have been made to DVD standards in the first place, and now it would be rather expensive to convert. Check out How stuff works, on how DVDs work, very interesting.
maynardcat 2 years ago
We were comparing audio CD's to vinyl LP's... DVD's and CD's are a different story. You're now talking about the difference between 44.1/16 and 96/24 digital. DVD- A is, in many ways, a better format but it is not mainstream and most likely will never be. 'Nuff said... :) JC
BadEditPro 2 years ago
The "warm and airy" sound can be due to various things in the LP chain, such as the effects of the RIAA curve when emphasized on the recording used to cut the master disc and de-emphasized in the phono preamp to equalize the signal.
Usually, the RIAA EQ may not be perfectly implemented, particularly in the preamp on the playback end, which can introduce artifacts that can be euphonic in the final sound that you will hear.
Watcher3223 2 years ago
Objectively, LPs are not a precise analog to the original master recording because of numerous factors, including the RIAA curve. However, subjectively that doesn't matter so long as it still sounds good.
As for oversampling, you need to brush up on your knowledge there.
Watcher3223 2 years ago
Oversampling with CD is basically converting a 44.1 kHz signal into a higher form depending on the multiple. For instance, 8x oversampling means a 44.1 kHz signal is turned into a 352.8 kHz signal.
The purpose is to push aliasing into higher regions in the sound band, so a less complex and less destructive filter is needed to remove aliasing.
Watcher3223 2 years ago
1st gen. CD players with no oversampling used high order filters in the analog stage to remove aliasing. The 44.1 kHz sampling rate only provides about 2.05 kHz of headroom for aliasing above the audible limit (about 20 kHz). That's not much headroom plus the fact that aliasing occurs at a relatively low range, close to the audible range. Designing a high order filter that will work properly (filter the signal without causing unacceptable artifacts to the final sound) is hard and expensive.
Watcher3223 2 years ago
With oversampling, you push the aliasing into the ultrasonic range without affecting the recorded sound, well above the audible limit of the signal, which means you have loads of headroom and the aliasing is placed far enough away from the audible elements that a simpler, less aggressive filter of low order can be used in the analog stage.
Watcher3223 2 years ago
That really proves that both record players were made in the same factory.
DrCassette 2 years ago
I used to have an RCA branded vesion of those turntables I've also seen an Audio Technica branded one too.
Trance88 2 years ago
Radio Shack has sold their version of it under no less than five different brand names: "Optimus," "RCA," "RadioShack," "Presidian," and for their Canadian "The Source" stores, "Nexxtech."
vwestlife 2 years ago
Yup, I bought it from radio shack. I had it from 2004-06. It had a plastic platter and it was a little warped and had the tendancy to be louder out of the right channel. I got fed up with it and got something better. I sold it at a garage sale for like 25 bucks or something.
Trance88 2 years ago
@vwestlife Interestingly, Radio Shack's own version of the turntable, sold under many different brand names (I have the Nexxtech-branded one), has a plastic platter instead of the better aluminum one found on all the other turntables of this same array.
OldMusicOnVinyl1 10 months ago
that is so cool its like sony and pioneer used the same manufacturing instructions but they both used a slightly different design, one used the strobe and one had a preamp switch and the other didnt. and Is that your Tandy 1000 computer that I see?
coondogtheman1234 2 years ago
Yes, that's my Tandy 1000RL.
vwestlife 2 years ago
These look like my Teak turntable. I like my Maganvox changers best.
jefferyb304 2 years ago
Yes, TEAC had a turntable based on this same chassis, the P-A688.
vwestlife 2 years ago
I have a phillips turntable with a similar platter and the missing strobe
footinmouthindustrys 2 years ago
Just like the VHS recorders.
pcwalker 2 years ago
It's amazing h similar the two are.
CoolDudeClem 2 years ago
cool
Doomking101 2 years ago
Wow, that's crazy! I really miss the days when different brands actually made their own stuff.
Maxxarcade 2 years ago
As far as I know, badge engineering has been going on since the 70's.
Lachlant1984 2 years ago
Yes, especially since virtually everything back then had a BSR "Precision Crafted in Great Britain" record changer in it!
vwestlife 2 years ago