ALL minimum wage is counterproductive to employers AND employees; not just the minimum wages "which go too far" according to the arbitrary standards you use to define what too far is.
If you're coming at this from an ideological/moral "it's against freedumb" angle, let me know so I don't waste my time making practical arguments only to have them dismissed at the end anyway due to categorical imperative myopia. If you're statistically swayable, consult:
Remove brackets & add "h t t p". Also add "triple dubyas" after h t t p for any link that fails without them. I'd have included all that but YT's being a massive cunt & not letting my posts go through with those included. I have more sources, and I just wasted the last 55 minutes of my life dressing all those links up in brackets & "DOTS", but they still won't go through. It appears YT only allows pdfs here, so PM me if you're interested in more data refuting your common misconceptions.
Wait, so Nader "playing ball" with Ron Paul is "disgusting and slimy" yet just minutes prior you went on and on about the need for overwhelming unity for proper change to take effect. You contradict yourself too many times here.
Had you bothered paying attention, you'd have known that I was referring to overwhelming unity among constituencies, not figureheads like MLK & Brian Scates. A severe counterexample, but applicable.
Nader is slimy because of filibuster shit like this: watch?v=dE7MHgZ7kPo (didn't provide a direct answer to a direct question about the fed @ 05:30)
It's not *just* the meshing with a proven liar, it's his new found willingness to ditch direct answers cuz he knows they'll lead to friction with Paul
I'm well aware of the point you tried to make in the video. What seems to escape you is that unity among figureheads often leads to unity among the voting bases of said figureheads, one of whom is in this case an actual presidential candidate. You are correct about the severity of your MLK/Scates analogy, and incorrect about its applicability. And Nader didn't filibuster anything in that segment anyway.
You mentioned dropping by Occupy Vancouver back in Oct. Are you from Van?
"unity among figureheads often leads to unity among the voting bases"
This is an extraordinary claim which requires evidence in order to be taken seriously.
"incorrect about its applicability"
It's applicable. Blacks & white supremacists had many a common enemy throughout history. This was never reason enough for them to unite. They'd prove to be ineffective in light of constant internal friction.
"Nader"
Just re-watch the segment. It's a yes/no question which he outright avoided answering.
There's evidence in OWS itself. Surely you're familiar with the highly rated video regarding the fed rant which took place at the heart of OWS. It's actually right here on the list of videos to the right hand side of yours. I see tons of solidarity.
And no the supremacists/blacks analogy is not applicable. Nader's & Paul's supporters do not strive to render the other as 2nd class citizens, for one.
Wait, are you actually suggesting that a high rating on a YT video even remotely passes for the type of evidence I initially requested? Are you serious? Is this how you treat serious discussions in general? You need to provide statistics to support your notion that there's this great solidarity among OWS with respects to bilderberg conspiracies & other "end the fed" insipid drivel.
"2nd class" Not quite, but their basic values are still 180'd.
Sorry to inundate, but it all does come down to a collective belief as to what are and aren't inalienable rights. Merit is part of it, certainly, even a key part of it. But ultimately, doesn't it come down to a finite amount of resources, and an overall decision on how to distribute it? Ultimately, we should be comparing what works and doesn't--abroad. Finland? Education and housing are core rights, period. Still capitalist, but more humanist--not a "pyramid" capitalist scheme, per se.
Starting to fall apart about toward the end re: "This is what democracy looks like" chanting. First, as you yourself state, it's in its nascent phase. Second, what should they chant? "This place sucks and it's beyond repair, and we're gathering to discuss the empirically impractical methods that will and will not likely work in a relatively new experimental democracy!"? :D
Hey, I'm a fan, but realistically, what should they be chanting?
I'm not a fan of chants in general. Creates easy prey for spin job artists. Opportunists will jump at anything an OWS protester utters that can be made out to look like a soundbite devoid of substance. The conservative base will always eat that up.
I tried coming up with a pro-democracy chant that acknowledges its coercive nature & simultaneously manages to nail the "lesser of evils" part, while still being catchy. Safe to say I've had no luck yet.
@AntiBullshitMan Yeah, it's hard. It's a mass movement. Protests involve ginning up people. It's very animalistic, obviously. Tapping into that amygdala center, I'm guessing. Prolly among the lower priority issues, tho. I'll check out your blog; will send you a link to my own digital soapbox. BTW, I just told my 15 year old daughter how 26 year old people like you (and Zomgits) are infinitely more intelligent than I was at your age. No idea how this happened, but it's fun to watch. Cheers.
Flattered, but don't sell your old self short. It's not inherent, I'd say it's mostly a product of internet perks. If during your mid 20s you had access to a virtual library 24/7, jam packed with endless catalogs of sources/lectures & delivered through slick mediums, you'd probably have been sucked into it right then & there. Even one different experience is enough for a brand new domino effect to kick in. Besides, interpretation of intelligence itself may vary.
Interesting points all around. Very erudite and encyclopedic knowledge of the current state of affairs; my only criticism is that you could make your points less "understood," and perhaps a bit more concrete. Use more examples, and don't necessarily assume that everyone is as well read as you re: references to historical events--would it were that we were!
Re: my senator Bernie, yeah, he's got a tough job. Once thought a clown, now the conscience of an unconscionable democratic party. Cheers.
Yes, back when I was young and debating what kind of job I could go for I read some books on business and it was when the 'Golden Parachute' books were coming out and the authors were urging Americans to 'make friends' of future business, or money people and although they used tactful language they were telling them how to fool people with money with friendship and rip them off. And they have been....
Yes! You just explained how the trickster religious leader joined their ideologies together to rip people off and pull in power! I see NONE of the rich ones standing up for working Americans. They sure won't make it into heaven either!
Yeah, the wicked rich reminds me of the Pharisees that tried to out -argue Jesus. Never did. As it is, pulling urself up by bootstraps makes no logical sense, especially when you got no shoes. And isn't the trait the mean have of 'bullishness' the bullies shown a tyrant's trait? For sure I know they worship the golden calf they now call the 'bull' especially in the stock market. Great food for thought u've done with this vid. Have a great weekend.
@bermudaguy1@bermudaguy1 LOL. Enough with the natural allies nonsense. Ron Paul is allied to a world that does not now, nor should it ever exist, where all regulation is removed, corporations run everything, and state and local governments are stuck with the bill to take care of those needs that can't be met by neighbors and church bake sales. And on this latter point, you know states/local govt's are so flush with cash and everyone goes to church. Right? Right.
@bermudaguy1 Well, as polemics go, that's quite a rejoinder. Age, as our erudite video poster has clearly indicated, has little to do with intellect. My physical age doesn't matter. I deal in ideas and logic, not innuendo and ad hominem attacks. And you?
@bermudaguy1 You're quite welcome. Oh, and btw, if you hate our ability to have this enlightening random chit chat (aka the Interwebs). If you are against the postal service. If you never use the highway system. If you hate restrictions on what corporations can put into your body with your knowledge. If you think our ability to transform into a war economy to help defeat Hitler was wrong. Then hey! Ron Paul is your man! Why? Because none of that would have happened under his "vision" of the US.
No need to inject AN soundbites here. I brought up exponential population growth because it continues devaluing labor, which makes the protesters kinda dense for not addressing it yet. The mice/maze aspect is a different animal.
Parenti on human nature: watch?v=C28leo5E-oU
"wouldnt we need socialism"
No because countries with mixed economies (with the edge often given to the private sector) have the best track records when it comes to standards of living.
I know that your initial comment here was meant to agree with a statement from this vid (the one about overpopulation devaluing labor) but you did draw some factually incorrect conclusions.
ABSM - don't apologise for the length of the video, you covered a hell of a lot!
I like you because you focus on the details, I agree that a lot of political commentary has been reduced to cartoon depections and a long nitty gritty video like this one is refreshing.
interesting video. you mention how middle class jobs are teetering because of technology, but we need to realize that just because jobs are becoming more and more menial, it doesn't mean the person should become poor or shoved off to the side. technology is not there to benefit the few (or it shouldn't be, anyway). good stuff, overall.
@theinflatablehuman Also, when we examined how that happened, how the job market shifted starting back with Reaganomics and marching through NAFTA, we can still bitch. And yes, menial jobs can sometimes be the hardest on the labor performing the job, well let's face it, it IS the hardest on them, but their work actually creates value and product. Living wages are not out of bounds. Why is it a crime to recognize the wealth production of real labor? Oh, yeah, capitalism.
@IndifferentSky Indeed, go to any factory across the country and talk to the workers about their health problems that are a direct result of their work. Bad backs, carpal tunnel, etc. We work our lives away and they complain about their fucking taxes. Their actual contributions are minimal at best, we are the true creators of wealth, about time we get our piece of the pie. Peace.
@IndifferentSky there is a certain amount of "bringing this on ourselves," but the decline of our middle class seems a little more systematic/artificial than anything else.
@theinflatable "jobs are becoming more and more menial"
That part of the video revolved around technology antiquating more & more jobs, not sure how you managed to get the inverse impression. For an example of this, see the negative reactions to my uploads on the education system, where "prestige" gets in the way of making the most out of technology, as doing so would render about 75% of teachers obsolete.
Sophisticated weaponry is not the only thing that makes technology a double edged sword
@AntiBullshitMan yeah, i think i've seen a few. but when you talk about teachers, you're still going to have tutors, new servers and software to update, a complete overhaul of the public library system, etc. with poverty, you also have food availibility and learning environments to worry about for children, and this overhaul is going to cost a lot of start-up money. you really have to look at poverty situation here before you start banging away at education. that's where the main concern is.
@RationalSuicide I am not motivated by a desire for more material goods. I live as simply as I can. I AM motivated by a sense of outrage over the obscenity of the income gap in this country, and the victim blaming rhetoric espoused by many. Finally. the attitue that "you have a lot, so don't bitch", is patronizing and belittling to the legimate concerns of OWS , and social activists who have been labouring for years on issues ranging from prison reform to housing.
@RationalSuicide I will agree with you that SOME of the talk floating about the OWS is problematic, as I alluded to in my original posting on this video (check it out). However, are you as harsh in judging the unrestrained greed (and justifications for that greed) of those at the top? That we have a lot relative to others is true. However, I think many of the more thoughtful in OWS realize this, and are more aware than most of how these inequaities are perpetuated. Continued
@RationalSuicide Way to change the arguement. I quote you"Capitalism feeds all the welfare...the protestors are...currently living off". Care to defend that statement? I have a laptop. Does that in your view disqulaify me from critique of the social order that enabled me to buy one? I did not say the middle class holds everything up, I said their tax rate was disporportionate. And I have no problem with inovation and industry being rewarded...just not so obscenely and irresponsibly.
@RationalSuicide Work, REAL work, feeds the system. Most people that I know on welfare are suffering from some sort of mental illness or addiction. I don't envy them their existence. Schools without arts, music or phys ed. No national housing or mental health policy. Inflated tuition fees that feed the banks via student loans. The housing bubble, predatory loans, a bought congress...yeah, we're just SO unappreciative....that's the real problem. You nailed it, genius.
@RationalSuicide Billions if not trillions in hoarded wealth on the part of the financial services industry. A middle and lower class that pays a disproportianate amount of taxes in the form of both income and GST and gov't service charges that pay for our social services. Some of these protestors or supporters of OWS who you claim are living off welfare are students and workers (like me). I haven't had a raise in ten years. I don't thank the rich for a goddamn thing. Continued...
Of course it might be hard to pay back the bailouts if banks receive no investment. There must be a demand for Federal action, and a recognition that: a.) the reactionaries will fight with every dirty trick in the book, just as in they did in the 50s South; b.) the Fed gov. is not an automatic ally. It took 10 years of marching to finally swing Washington to the side of civil rights. Don't expect easy wins. It's a long, hard, and often discouraging fight.
@AntiBullshitMan That question's still open. Hold my nose, vote for Obama? Or play Leninist politics and vote for the (likely) Republican - Mitt Romney - and hope for better days through the backlash, on the old theory that things need to get worse before they get better. Of course, they'll get worse for me before anyone inside Wall Street. It's going to be interesting times.
For the OWS movement to have leadership it must have concrete goals. So far it's a protest movement - much needed - but it has no transforming vision. King had such a vision, not just the "mountaintop" rhetoric but the practical steps to get to the base to even begin climbing. The protestors avoid this, afraid it will fracture unity. But it doesn't have to. "Pay back the bailouts - if corporations are people they can go to jail - disinvest in banks" - are starting points.
I'll be doing a follow up on various items here... don't know if I'll include justice system in the very next vid though. I fear it would result in another 40+ min vid, since I also wanna rag on the electoral college and try to focus on the particular elections it fucked over throughout the last 2 centuries.
It's funny how all the talk of fixin ghte electoral system in Canada after the last two elections has just vanished. I don't hear anyone bringing it up, even those that you would think would be interested in it for their own gains. Makes me very cynical and hopeless about change. Also, very real problems with what are to me the conflict between increased wages (which I would support, being part of the working poor) versus what we do with those wages (buy more shit, maybe have more children).
Worth the wait. And even i the big liberal freedom fighter, i do have a little bit of fear about Occupy turning out like the tea party because of some nuts taking over the movement.
And that is interesting, to point out that what would help us economicly would be to have less children. That is fresh, and different, and it makes sense, more kids=more money to be used, and more resources used.
i tend to ignore any specific demands that come out of ows, they can be genuine reflections of some core groups wishes or media inventions. i think the power of 'unrest with momentum' in general can have more effect than some list of demands.
In some areas ows is very active and often bleeds over into other progressive causes, firing the belly of dormant activists perhaps
but basically, i think the owners know what needs to change, but they wont till they have to.
Reading through the $20/hr stuff last fall was an epic disappointment. It just got worse & worse after I went on to argue it with the locals in October. After spending so much time refuting the bullshit "incentive" arguments, this thing ends up going mainstream & a portion of it demands goodies which by all accounts actually would have an adverse effect on incentive. Give 16 year olds a comfy $20/hr @ Footlocker, & enough of them will ditch school/everything in favor of it. I should know
You sir, have a brain.
nasty1182 1 week ago
ALL minimum wage is counterproductive to employers AND employees; not just the minimum wages "which go too far" according to the arbitrary standards you use to define what too far is.
costagreek19 2 weeks ago
If you're coming at this from an ideological/moral "it's against freedumb" angle, let me know so I don't waste my time making practical arguments only to have them dismissed at the end anyway due to categorical imperative myopia. If you're statistically swayable, consult:
davidcard(.)berkeley(.)edu/papers/njmin-aer(.)pdf
irle(.)berkeley(.)edu/workingpapers/157-07(.)pdf P961
cepr(.)net/documents/publications/min-wage-2011-03(.)pdf P29
davidcard(.)berkeley(.)edu/papers/minwage-unemp(.)pdf
AntiBullshitMan 2 weeks ago 2
@c
Remove brackets & add "h t t p". Also add "triple dubyas" after h t t p for any link that fails without them. I'd have included all that but YT's being a massive cunt & not letting my posts go through with those included. I have more sources, and I just wasted the last 55 minutes of my life dressing all those links up in brackets & "DOTS", but they still won't go through. It appears YT only allows pdfs here, so PM me if you're interested in more data refuting your common misconceptions.
AntiBullshitMan 2 weeks ago
Ha ha very true about Peter Shift, he really stop playing ball along time ago...
Ramiromasters 1 month ago
Wait, so Nader "playing ball" with Ron Paul is "disgusting and slimy" yet just minutes prior you went on and on about the need for overwhelming unity for proper change to take effect. You contradict yourself too many times here.
ThePovratakOtpisanih 1 month ago
Had you bothered paying attention, you'd have known that I was referring to overwhelming unity among constituencies, not figureheads like MLK & Brian Scates. A severe counterexample, but applicable.
Nader is slimy because of filibuster shit like this: watch?v=dE7MHgZ7kPo (didn't provide a direct answer to a direct question about the fed @ 05:30)
It's not *just* the meshing with a proven liar, it's his new found willingness to ditch direct answers cuz he knows they'll lead to friction with Paul
AntiBullshitMan 1 month ago
@AntiBullshitMan
I'm well aware of the point you tried to make in the video. What seems to escape you is that unity among figureheads often leads to unity among the voting bases of said figureheads, one of whom is in this case an actual presidential candidate. You are correct about the severity of your MLK/Scates analogy, and incorrect about its applicability. And Nader didn't filibuster anything in that segment anyway.
You mentioned dropping by Occupy Vancouver back in Oct. Are you from Van?
ThePovratakOtpisanih 1 month ago
"unity among figureheads often leads to unity among the voting bases"
This is an extraordinary claim which requires evidence in order to be taken seriously.
"incorrect about its applicability"
It's applicable. Blacks & white supremacists had many a common enemy throughout history. This was never reason enough for them to unite. They'd prove to be ineffective in light of constant internal friction.
"Nader"
Just re-watch the segment. It's a yes/no question which he outright avoided answering.
AntiBullshitMan 1 month ago
@AntiBullshitMan "This was never reason enough for them to unite"
Unite *politically*, being what I meant.
AntiBullshitMan 1 month ago
@AntiBullshitMan
There's evidence in OWS itself. Surely you're familiar with the highly rated video regarding the fed rant which took place at the heart of OWS. It's actually right here on the list of videos to the right hand side of yours. I see tons of solidarity.
And no the supremacists/blacks analogy is not applicable. Nader's & Paul's supporters do not strive to render the other as 2nd class citizens, for one.
ThePovratakOtpisanih 1 month ago
"the highly rated video regarding the fed rant"
Wait, are you actually suggesting that a high rating on a YT video even remotely passes for the type of evidence I initially requested? Are you serious? Is this how you treat serious discussions in general? You need to provide statistics to support your notion that there's this great solidarity among OWS with respects to bilderberg conspiracies & other "end the fed" insipid drivel.
"2nd class" Not quite, but their basic values are still 180'd.
AntiBullshitMan 1 month ago
Sorry to inundate, but it all does come down to a collective belief as to what are and aren't inalienable rights. Merit is part of it, certainly, even a key part of it. But ultimately, doesn't it come down to a finite amount of resources, and an overall decision on how to distribute it? Ultimately, we should be comparing what works and doesn't--abroad. Finland? Education and housing are core rights, period. Still capitalist, but more humanist--not a "pyramid" capitalist scheme, per se.
groobiecat 1 month ago
Starting to fall apart about toward the end re: "This is what democracy looks like" chanting. First, as you yourself state, it's in its nascent phase. Second, what should they chant? "This place sucks and it's beyond repair, and we're gathering to discuss the empirically impractical methods that will and will not likely work in a relatively new experimental democracy!"? :D
Hey, I'm a fan, but realistically, what should they be chanting?
groobiecat 1 month ago
@groobiecat "what should they be chanting?"
I'm not a fan of chants in general. Creates easy prey for spin job artists. Opportunists will jump at anything an OWS protester utters that can be made out to look like a soundbite devoid of substance. The conservative base will always eat that up.
I tried coming up with a pro-democracy chant that acknowledges its coercive nature & simultaneously manages to nail the "lesser of evils" part, while still being catchy. Safe to say I've had no luck yet.
AntiBullshitMan 1 month ago
@AntiBullshitMan Yeah, it's hard. It's a mass movement. Protests involve ginning up people. It's very animalistic, obviously. Tapping into that amygdala center, I'm guessing. Prolly among the lower priority issues, tho. I'll check out your blog; will send you a link to my own digital soapbox. BTW, I just told my 15 year old daughter how 26 year old people like you (and Zomgits) are infinitely more intelligent than I was at your age. No idea how this happened, but it's fun to watch. Cheers.
groobiecat 1 month ago
@g "infinitely more intelligent"
Flattered, but don't sell your old self short. It's not inherent, I'd say it's mostly a product of internet perks. If during your mid 20s you had access to a virtual library 24/7, jam packed with endless catalogs of sources/lectures & delivered through slick mediums, you'd probably have been sucked into it right then & there. Even one different experience is enough for a brand new domino effect to kick in. Besides, interpretation of intelligence itself may vary.
AntiBullshitMan 1 month ago
Interesting points all around. Very erudite and encyclopedic knowledge of the current state of affairs; my only criticism is that you could make your points less "understood," and perhaps a bit more concrete. Use more examples, and don't necessarily assume that everyone is as well read as you re: references to historical events--would it were that we were!
Re: my senator Bernie, yeah, he's got a tough job. Once thought a clown, now the conscience of an unconscionable democratic party. Cheers.
groobiecat 1 month ago
Audio only comes out of one earbud.
FUUUUUUUUUU.jpg
Controversialize 1 month ago
@Controversialize I thought that was my headphones lmao
EvironmentalistsEdge 1 month ago
Yes, back when I was young and debating what kind of job I could go for I read some books on business and it was when the 'Golden Parachute' books were coming out and the authors were urging Americans to 'make friends' of future business, or money people and although they used tactful language they were telling them how to fool people with money with friendship and rip them off. And they have been....
Licmycat 1 month ago
Yes! You just explained how the trickster religious leader joined their ideologies together to rip people off and pull in power! I see NONE of the rich ones standing up for working Americans. They sure won't make it into heaven either!
Licmycat 1 month ago
Yeah, the wicked rich reminds me of the Pharisees that tried to out -argue Jesus. Never did. As it is, pulling urself up by bootstraps makes no logical sense, especially when you got no shoes. And isn't the trait the mean have of 'bullishness' the bullies shown a tyrant's trait? For sure I know they worship the golden calf they now call the 'bull' especially in the stock market. Great food for thought u've done with this vid. Have a great weekend.
Licmycat 1 month ago
Anti-bullshit man?
shaunsprogress 1 month ago
You guys make natural allies with Ron Paul!
bermudaguy1 1 month ago
@bermudaguy1 @bermudaguy1 LOL. Enough with the natural allies nonsense. Ron Paul is allied to a world that does not now, nor should it ever exist, where all regulation is removed, corporations run everything, and state and local governments are stuck with the bill to take care of those needs that can't be met by neighbors and church bake sales. And on this latter point, you know states/local govt's are so flush with cash and everyone goes to church. Right? Right.
groobiecat 1 month ago
@groobiecat Hahahahahah! You are ridiculous...what are you ..17?
bermudaguy1 1 month ago
@bermudaguy1 Well, as polemics go, that's quite a rejoinder. Age, as our erudite video poster has clearly indicated, has little to do with intellect. My physical age doesn't matter. I deal in ideas and logic, not innuendo and ad hominem attacks. And you?
groobiecat 1 month ago
@groobiecat Thanks junior!
bermudaguy1 1 month ago
@bermudaguy1 You're quite welcome. Oh, and btw, if you hate our ability to have this enlightening random chit chat (aka the Interwebs). If you are against the postal service. If you never use the highway system. If you hate restrictions on what corporations can put into your body with your knowledge. If you think our ability to transform into a war economy to help defeat Hitler was wrong. Then hey! Ron Paul is your man! Why? Because none of that would have happened under his "vision" of the US.
groobiecat 1 month ago
Comment removed
greenghost2008 1 month ago
Comment removed
greenghost2008 1 month ago
@R "We are addicted little mice"
No need to inject AN soundbites here. I brought up exponential population growth because it continues devaluing labor, which makes the protesters kinda dense for not addressing it yet. The mice/maze aspect is a different animal.
Parenti on human nature: watch?v=C28leo5E-oU
"wouldnt we need socialism"
No because countries with mixed economies (with the edge often given to the private sector) have the best track records when it comes to standards of living.
AntiBullshitMan 1 month ago
Also, see the light documentary "The Corporation" for insight on the "value" they add to society, versus the value they extract.
Solid video addressing the "jobs" argument you made: watch?v=cXfM5egpGTQ
washingtonpost(.)com/opinions/i-am-a-job-creator-who-creates-no-jobs/2011/09/20/gIQAhpgGjK_story(.)html
I know that your initial comment here was meant to agree with a statement from this vid (the one about overpopulation devaluing labor) but you did draw some factually incorrect conclusions.
AntiBullshitMan 1 month ago
"vast amount of tax dollars coming into government comes from the wealthy and from corporations"
On paper, yes.
In practice, no:
ctj(.)org/corporatetaxdodgers/CorporateTaxDodgersReport(.)pdf
A snippet from the report: imageshack(.)us/f/708/ctjtaxdodge(.)jpg/
In case the length of the report puts you off, here's a more digestible synopsis: s3(.)moveon(.)org/images/bernie-sanders-corporate-tax-4001(.)jpg
Remove brackets.
You'll find more loopholes & bailouts, if you bother to look them up.
AntiBullshitMan 1 month ago
ABSM - don't apologise for the length of the video, you covered a hell of a lot!
I like you because you focus on the details, I agree that a lot of political commentary has been reduced to cartoon depections and a long nitty gritty video like this one is refreshing.
eraser101YT 1 month ago
interesting video. you mention how middle class jobs are teetering because of technology, but we need to realize that just because jobs are becoming more and more menial, it doesn't mean the person should become poor or shoved off to the side. technology is not there to benefit the few (or it shouldn't be, anyway). good stuff, overall.
theinflatablehuman 1 month ago
@theinflatablehuman Also, when we examined how that happened, how the job market shifted starting back with Reaganomics and marching through NAFTA, we can still bitch. And yes, menial jobs can sometimes be the hardest on the labor performing the job, well let's face it, it IS the hardest on them, but their work actually creates value and product. Living wages are not out of bounds. Why is it a crime to recognize the wealth production of real labor? Oh, yeah, capitalism.
IndifferentSky 1 month ago
@IndifferentSky Indeed, go to any factory across the country and talk to the workers about their health problems that are a direct result of their work. Bad backs, carpal tunnel, etc. We work our lives away and they complain about their fucking taxes. Their actual contributions are minimal at best, we are the true creators of wealth, about time we get our piece of the pie. Peace.
mojosideburns 1 month ago
@IndifferentSky there is a certain amount of "bringing this on ourselves," but the decline of our middle class seems a little more systematic/artificial than anything else.
theinflatablehuman 1 month ago
@theinflatablehuman The elites brought it upon us with their race to the bottom.
IndifferentSky 1 month ago
@theinflatable "jobs are becoming more and more menial"
That part of the video revolved around technology antiquating more & more jobs, not sure how you managed to get the inverse impression. For an example of this, see the negative reactions to my uploads on the education system, where "prestige" gets in the way of making the most out of technology, as doing so would render about 75% of teachers obsolete.
Sophisticated weaponry is not the only thing that makes technology a double edged sword
AntiBullshitMan 1 month ago
@AntiBullshitMan yeah, i think i've seen a few. but when you talk about teachers, you're still going to have tutors, new servers and software to update, a complete overhaul of the public library system, etc. with poverty, you also have food availibility and learning environments to worry about for children, and this overhaul is going to cost a lot of start-up money. you really have to look at poverty situation here before you start banging away at education. that's where the main concern is.
theinflatablehuman 1 month ago
@theinflatablehuman but this is for another video, i don't want to nitpick about one thing in the comment section.
theinflatablehuman 1 month ago
@RationalSuicide Thanks for watching my video...you do realize, I hope, that I am putting on an act in that video? Playing a part? Peace in return.
BrentMosherMusic 1 month ago
@RationalSuicide I am not motivated by a desire for more material goods. I live as simply as I can. I AM motivated by a sense of outrage over the obscenity of the income gap in this country, and the victim blaming rhetoric espoused by many. Finally. the attitue that "you have a lot, so don't bitch", is patronizing and belittling to the legimate concerns of OWS , and social activists who have been labouring for years on issues ranging from prison reform to housing.
BrentMosherMusic 1 month ago
@RationalSuicide I will agree with you that SOME of the talk floating about the OWS is problematic, as I alluded to in my original posting on this video (check it out). However, are you as harsh in judging the unrestrained greed (and justifications for that greed) of those at the top? That we have a lot relative to others is true. However, I think many of the more thoughtful in OWS realize this, and are more aware than most of how these inequaities are perpetuated. Continued
BrentMosherMusic 1 month ago
@RationalSuicide PS. I'm also very coordinated, thannks for the concern about my physical abilities, though.
BrentMosherMusic 1 month ago
@RationalSuicide Way to change the arguement. I quote you"Capitalism feeds all the welfare...the protestors are...currently living off". Care to defend that statement? I have a laptop. Does that in your view disqulaify me from critique of the social order that enabled me to buy one? I did not say the middle class holds everything up, I said their tax rate was disporportionate. And I have no problem with inovation and industry being rewarded...just not so obscenely and irresponsibly.
BrentMosherMusic 1 month ago
Dude you're a genius...thankyou for granting me clarity amidst this tangled web of stupidity.
hanson666999 1 month ago
@RationalSuicide Work, REAL work, feeds the system. Most people that I know on welfare are suffering from some sort of mental illness or addiction. I don't envy them their existence. Schools without arts, music or phys ed. No national housing or mental health policy. Inflated tuition fees that feed the banks via student loans. The housing bubble, predatory loans, a bought congress...yeah, we're just SO unappreciative....that's the real problem. You nailed it, genius.
BrentMosherMusic 1 month ago
@RationalSuicide Billions if not trillions in hoarded wealth on the part of the financial services industry. A middle and lower class that pays a disproportianate amount of taxes in the form of both income and GST and gov't service charges that pay for our social services. Some of these protestors or supporters of OWS who you claim are living off welfare are students and workers (like me). I haven't had a raise in ten years. I don't thank the rich for a goddamn thing. Continued...
BrentMosherMusic 1 month ago
Every time I need inspiration to educate myself and read more. I watch one of your videos to remind myself how fucking stupid I am.
AtheistKharm 1 month ago
@AtheistKharm
Too kind, but I'll take it.
AntiBullshitMan 1 month ago
Comment removed
AtheistKharm 1 month ago
Of course it might be hard to pay back the bailouts if banks receive no investment. There must be a demand for Federal action, and a recognition that: a.) the reactionaries will fight with every dirty trick in the book, just as in they did in the 50s South; b.) the Fed gov. is not an automatic ally. It took 10 years of marching to finally swing Washington to the side of civil rights. Don't expect easy wins. It's a long, hard, and often discouraging fight.
TheAzov 1 month ago
@TheAzov
So who gets Azov's vote this November?
It's a nothing question considering the lack of IRV, but humor me.
AntiBullshitMan 1 month ago in playlist More videos from AntiBullshitMan
@AntiBullshitMan That question's still open. Hold my nose, vote for Obama? Or play Leninist politics and vote for the (likely) Republican - Mitt Romney - and hope for better days through the backlash, on the old theory that things need to get worse before they get better. Of course, they'll get worse for me before anyone inside Wall Street. It's going to be interesting times.
TheAzov 1 month ago
For the OWS movement to have leadership it must have concrete goals. So far it's a protest movement - much needed - but it has no transforming vision. King had such a vision, not just the "mountaintop" rhetoric but the practical steps to get to the base to even begin climbing. The protestors avoid this, afraid it will fracture unity. But it doesn't have to. "Pay back the bailouts - if corporations are people they can go to jail - disinvest in banks" - are starting points.
TheAzov 1 month ago
I'm all for addressing the income gap and reigning in corporate irresponsibility, but to what end?
Also, would be interested in a video elaborating your thoughts on the justice system, that you allude to in this video.
BrentMosherMusic 1 month ago
@BrentMosherMusic
I'll be doing a follow up on various items here... don't know if I'll include justice system in the very next vid though. I fear it would result in another 40+ min vid, since I also wanna rag on the electoral college and try to focus on the particular elections it fucked over throughout the last 2 centuries.
AntiBullshitMan 1 month ago
It's funny how all the talk of fixin ghte electoral system in Canada after the last two elections has just vanished. I don't hear anyone bringing it up, even those that you would think would be interested in it for their own gains. Makes me very cynical and hopeless about change. Also, very real problems with what are to me the conflict between increased wages (which I would support, being part of the working poor) versus what we do with those wages (buy more shit, maybe have more children).
BrentMosherMusic 1 month ago
Worth the wait. And even i the big liberal freedom fighter, i do have a little bit of fear about Occupy turning out like the tea party because of some nuts taking over the movement.
And that is interesting, to point out that what would help us economicly would be to have less children. That is fresh, and different, and it makes sense, more kids=more money to be used, and more resources used.
whedonfreak976 1 month ago
i tend to ignore any specific demands that come out of ows, they can be genuine reflections of some core groups wishes or media inventions. i think the power of 'unrest with momentum' in general can have more effect than some list of demands.
In some areas ows is very active and often bleeds over into other progressive causes, firing the belly of dormant activists perhaps
but basically, i think the owners know what needs to change, but they wont till they have to.
SkidRowRadio 1 month ago
@Skid
Reading through the $20/hr stuff last fall was an epic disappointment. It just got worse & worse after I went on to argue it with the locals in October. After spending so much time refuting the bullshit "incentive" arguments, this thing ends up going mainstream & a portion of it demands goodies which by all accounts actually would have an adverse effect on incentive. Give 16 year olds a comfy $20/hr @ Footlocker, & enough of them will ditch school/everything in favor of it. I should know
AntiBullshitMan 1 month ago