Limits to economic growth? Sustainability? Commodity prices, land, water, global economy - Speaker

[jhlbjaaa]

Technology growth too, we'll figure something out.

[vijayanand875]

Folks we are searching the Black cat in the Dark room, We can talk like this for months and years=NO Solution. There is a solution for this''zeitgeist movement'', ''The Venus project.'' Please check out this with patience.

[AZURA888]

Ok I just know one thing, more people, more problems. It seems USA will fall in a economic future similar to that of Japan.

[comecra85]

bullshit

[S1587915G]

The nature of exponential growth is such that it can progress VERY dramatically. So dramatically that one moment we may think there's still A LOT of whatever-it-is that's still available, and the very next moment, SNAP -- we suddenly find there's very little of it left.

This gentleman's speech needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. (Though I do agree on the part on meat.)

[jacopman]

economic growth required to provide for a compounded world birth rate that creates a exponential growth rate cannot be met with finite resources.

In fact....it may appear that there are plenty of resources until the exponential growth reaches critical mass on those resources. Then they will dissapear in a heart beat resulting in great tragedy.

We either compassionately learn to limit population growth now or nature will do that through the balance of the system by drastic measures later.

[MarkProffitt]

@jacopman Population growth is not exponential, is logistic. That is an S curve. It reaches a peak then tops off. All demand curves are logistic, not exponential.

[mrhulot101]

One of the best ways to save the environment is to elect Officials that will focus on reducing immigration.

In America, nearly all the population growth in the last 40 years has been via immigration, over 100 million more and we are on track to go to 500 million in a few decades. The world does not need 300 million more American consumers and America does not need 300 million more immigrants. Go to Numbersusa for more info on immigration and to fax your senators for free.

[Nuanceqwest]

Do you think that America can live in a self contained isolated bubble?

America is accually living off the rest of the world. I mean look at the trade deficit for the last 30 years and foreigners nice enough to buy the US debt. Households living on credit, businesses surviving on credit, governments surviving on credit.

These imbalances are being corrected FAST!!

Dont worry about it though most of the world will be put on its rear end by this coming depression.

[Nuanceqwest]

No need to worry about immigration or commodity prices they will be self-corrected. They are a function of Economic strength and credit in that order. Commodity prices are going to multi year lows in the next 10 years.

[shpensive]

@FiatOrFreedom: Unfortunately your living in a dreamworld. Firstly, we will never have "virtually free energy", nor does that phrase make sense. Free energy is a term from thermodynamics meaning energy available to do work. The processes you are talking about don't seem feasible...

But say they were. Economic growth would be rampant, and we would very quickly find new limits on growth. Unfortunately, this scenario would end badly with a horribly polluted world. No energy can't reverse it

[shpensive]

Unfortunately this speaker has failed to address the root problem in reaching a sustainable economy: growth. We may be able to find alternative energy sources but this does not show us how to address the constantly increasing demand for energy. We cannot continue to consume more year over year, since the quantity of free energy that is replenished on Earth every year is constant (the power of incident radiation).

[mans0nh]

We have been trying to create free nuclear energy for years. From what I remember when I was looking into it (about 5 years back) we were only at a 40% return rate.

Has there been any major improvements on this.

Or can one still consider it a pipe dream?

What I mean is, is there actually any breakthroughs that suggest that it will ever be possible?

Free energy has been a dream for decades, but I haven't heard of anything close to a realization.

[FiatOrFreedom]

Look up "ITER".

They are trying to develop an economically viable power plant in 30 years from now (I think)... It's basically going to be a huge Tokamak style Nuclear Fusion Reactor.

As far as breakthroughs go, I think that is the point of that project... Trying to make the breakthroughs that is.

I hope they can do it, It would change everything.

[mans0nh]

Ok I will look into it.

But what I mean is, in order to have sustainability using nuclear systems, the output of the input has to be < 100%.

If it is anything short of < 100% it will not be sustainable.

I will be honest though, I hope they don't do it.

Because if they do, we will have an excuse to exterminate all life on this planet. (as if we weren't already) because we will have infinite power.

We already have infinite power, its called the sun, and nature.

I do like it, but its a dream.

[FiatOrFreedom]

Regarding output vs input... No process in the universe creates energy.

In fusion, you start with two nuclei each with a some kinetic energy and then you combine them into one larger nuclei which is smaller than the sum of the two original nuclei. Fusion converts mass into heat which makes electrical power.

I understand your fear. But something to consider is, why would mankind want to exterminate itself? It's not in anyone's best interests. Fear shouldn't stop us from doing what's right.

[mans0nh]

Who says its right.

An no I am not afraid of it.

If we create free energy, we will continue on our path of destruction.

Unless free energy somehow enlightens us, :)

Nuclear energy isn't going to save this system, as it is no less sustainable then other non renewable resources, unless its output is greater than its input.

[FiatOrFreedom]

Opinion:

Most wars are fought over the need for energy directly or indirectly. Energy (physically) is Power (politically). Solve the energy problem globally and you greatly diminish the motivations for wars, IMO.

As far as Nuclear energy not being sustainable...

FACT:

1) Fusion (not Fission) only requires Hydrogen (or deuterium). There's enough Hydrogen on earth to last billions of years. You can't get any more sustainable than that!

2) Output = Input.

Don't mix your facts and opinions.

[mans0nh]

First off I am not mixing facts. Output does not = input.

Second, I am not talking about wars. I couln't give a shit if humans are stupid enough to go around killing each other.

I am refering to our devistation on this planet and the natural ecosystem. And no its not just global warming, I am talking about basic biodiversity. If you want to know more about that look up biodiverstiy. There is a lot of research on it, mostly pointin to, were fucked.

Even if we have infinite energy, we will be ^

[FiatOrFreedom]

Law of Conservation of Energy: Energy Out = Energy In.

I totally agree we've fucked the planet up... you don't think it's recoverable... I think it is.

Destruction of ecosystems, wars, natural disasters, food shortages, over population, etc... these things are all related.

Energy is the key. And we better figure something out soon or we're definitely fucked.

One thing is almost certain, this planet will be full of life long after we've died off.

[mans0nh]

Yes this planet will have life. But nothing like it used to be.

We have killed off and continue to kill of thousands of species.

Scientists have been studying it for about 21 years now, and they still don't know if we are over the edge.

But lets say were not, and that we do somehow manage to create free enerty (yes I know the law you mentioned) but the output of energy that can be used is not equal to that put in, but hypothetically lets say we had that.

[mans0nh]

Do you think we will stop detroying everything around us. No we will continue to expand the human population at an even higher rate.Human population growth is based on resources input, and the use of non-renewable resources, and hyperexploitation of renewable ones.

If we create free energy, we will expand exponentially-exponentially fast. As we are already expanding exponentially.

[FiatOrFreedom]

I don't know.

I just think having virtually free energy gives you options that could help us decrease our "footprint".

Just think. any chemical process you can think of can be made to happen at will.

We wouldn't need expansive farmlands... you could just grow food underground if you wanted...

Building materials could be synthesized from scratch while waste is decomposed at virtually no cost...

Don't forget, as nations become more affluent their growth rates decrease i.e. populations stabilize

[FiatOrFreedom]

The only question that remains is, will we get to that level of proactively minimizing our footprint?, and that is dependent on our collective will to change.

As a species we have a terrible track record of working toward a common goal.

We'll probably kill ourselves over some bullshit before that ever happens.

I guess my point was that it's possible, not necessarily probable but possible.

[peterwinstondaniel]

Yes I agree. Full marks for the Doctors optimism. Can't criticize him for that however. Is 6 billion humans an overpopulated planet? And the number is increasing exponentially. Who are the we's that are going to sort out the massive problems overtaking the planet? Who might the survivors be? The rich? How much time is left? Growth = surplus. How much surplus is left on the planet? Are we the only and first age on this planet that is indestructible and will go on forever?

[Astralprojection23]

I hate to sound like a cynic, but it's all too little, too late. How do you reverse climate change or freeze the arctic to it's earlier size? The problem is nobody knows, since we - as an advanced modern society - have not gone through climate change. We just jump started a natural process and will soon enter into an ice age. Sorry folks, prepare the igloos, moreover, prepare for environmental refugees. Bangladesh, Australia, California, Katrina, and so many more.

[econdemocracy]

The usual false claim that "reserves grow more each year than we use" .Quoting Colin Campbell "An oilfield contains what it contains because it was filled in the geological past, but knowledge of how much it contains evolves over time..for genuine discovery trend, we need to backdate revisions to the discovery of the field. Failure to backdate gives the illusion that more is being found" So two mistakes: 1. peak extraction rate is a problem before "reserves" are;and backdating error Re reserves

[Nkatsikanis]

Talking about land used for grain, why should we use more land if some countries horde grain in order to keep supply and demand in there own favour while other countries starve?

[pjvdixon]

These are complex issues. Patrick

[Nkatsikanis]

I guess we just try to advice those counties that are humanity compliant.

Anyway I heard that Bucano Faso as very good water supply in the water table but haven't invested in the deep bore water wells, because of some corruption/turmoil.

[LastReplaySC]

you were talking to India/Pakistanis ?

that's the wrong crowd!

you should be telling them that most G9 states will go to war for any bit of resource available until their own countries have reached sustainability with your clean-unlimited energy dreams, hopes and prayers!

Telling them the wourld will shit on you if they themselves do not find the answer to the energy problem.

[dakusahab]

Listening to this, I conclude you know very little about energy. you are just repeating what others have told you.

[dakusahab]

If you really did some research you'd know we are doomed. In fact I will make a bet that the 22nd century will be much like the 19th century, except we will be in decline and not in ascension. you don't realize high-tech is energy intensive, and low-tech is slow. Get an electric car while you still can.

[pjvdixon]

Also if you click FAVOURITE (red heart) immediately below video, you will help other people find this video and enjoy it too. PLEASE do comment....I try to reply to most comments, but with 10 million different visitors to my sites sometimes it takes me a while. Patrick Dixon

[pjvdixon]

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[lostinmaya]

WOW!

Though I think free/decentralized energy is only 20 years away. The info exchange on the internet is going to make up the time that was lost.