Idiots..... Racism...... Hypocrites.............. Why are these dutch morons are messing with muslims i mean what did they do? if they have a porblems with muslim they shud keep it to them selves and not make a bloody movie stupid idiots
Many people who hate Islam, I think those are clear that Islam is the light. I mean more and more they hate Islam, it makes Islam clearer that Islam is the truth, no doubt in Islam, they always try to keep Islam apart and they won't stop breaking Islam down, worsen the Islam image, and Islam was always getting tyrant..
I was so wondered..
Why people always hate Islam? What's wrong with Islam? Are they envy with the Islam's clear?
Instead of addressing your anger at Wilders, you should be putting your efforts into stopping your extremists and also learn to assimilate into countries that offer you shelter.
Instead of addressing your anger at Wilders, you should be putting your efforts into stopping your extremists and also learn to assimilate into countries that offer you shelter.
It is just extremely lame. who talks so much crap if theyer against violence? That makes you guys crappier than what ur talking about. You stupid buddhists r probably most likely jealous because no one reall follows ur religion and isnt gowing as fast as islam u peices of crap! islam is the second largest religoon in the world and the fastest growing. hw do u explain that? hw about u all suck some u haters your gona get it in hell!
you guys pretty much want to hate on Islam and make your religios sound perfect. HOW is that PEACEFUL? To each his own! and Each religion must be respected, just dont talk about people that way, now would you like it if someone went against your religion? It's pretty hurtfull. People! Don't follow others just because they hate, that doesnt mean you should! respect the people around you no matter who they are.
Extremely lame attempt at refutation. In fact, given the lameness, the video actually bolstered Wilder's video and should serve as a further warning that "War is Deceit," and that only the ignorant and naive would fall for this attempt to justify murder, abuse, and oppression in the name of the "religion of peace."
Stop your propaganda. Islam is a religion of hatred, war, violence. Why? Because Muhammed was a warrior. All you have to do is read the hadiths. They tell you how Muhammed killed, looted, distributed the spoils of the people he attacked. He penetrated Aicha, had many wives, captives, owned slaves. He was a real impostor. Read also your quran and its violent calls to war, to hatred against the "infidel": 4:95, 5:51, 2:191, 2:216, 8:12, 9:5, 9:29, 9:39, 9:123
Stop your propaganda. Islam is a religion of hatred, war, violence. Why? Because Muhammed was a warrior. All you have to do is read the hadiths. They tell you how Muhammed killed, looted, distributed the spoils of the people he attacked. He penetrated Aicha, had many wives, captives, owned slaves. He was a real impostor. Read also your quran and its violent calls to war, to hatred against the "infidel": 4:95, 5:51, 2:191, 2:216, 8:12, 9:5, 9:29, 9:39, 9:123
Muslims are dishonest. When a text is too embarrasing then "it is out of context", not when it says sth good, of course. But what kind of context would allow killing, war as you find in the quran? Besides the coran has very little context. It jumps from one subject to the other without transition. The quran is full of aggressive texts that has nothing to do with God: 5:51, 2:191, 2: 216, 8:12, 9:05, 9:29, 9:39, 9, 123, etc. Unlike Buddha and Jesus, Muhammed was a warrior, a killer
hope that after this massage you should make your selfe discrening about Muhammad (SAWW) he was just a guider of the people and massanger of allah that he wants to show to the people the best way the light way and your compearing a scluptuer with a real man in Islam world that he has about millions followers and sequent so just try to understand your self that Buddah is just a scluptuer and Jessus was also a massanger of allah that Allah has sent him Like Muhammad
9.33 . He it is who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the Religion of Truth , that He may cause it to prevail over all religion , however much the idolaters may be averse .
and HOW DARE u guys make fun of our beloved Prophet Muhammad s.a.w ?!
Just so u guys noe, even the non-muslims in the early times beleived in our Prophet s.a.w ..
because they knew that our prophet had never ever lied ! They beleived in HIM but they don't in Islam. If u guys want to know the truth, refer the Quran. Even non-muslims scientists refer to It to complete their researches. So stop making fun of our relegion!
@PrincessPurrfect12 Religion of peace. It has conquered by the sword since 622. 2.191 . And slay them wherever ye find them , and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out , for persecution is worse than slaughter . And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there , but if they attack you ( there ) then slay them . Such is the reward of disbelievers .
you all are big idiots and ofcourse jahanami's. How dare u critisize our beloved Prophet (PBUH). Why look anywhere else for Info abt islam, why dont u just read the HOLY QURAN bcoz thats the book we read and follow. and if u find any negative thing in their then tell me, because u wont. and who the hell is science to prove anything wrong abt islam, islam has never promoted terrorism sme psyco people have like u guys. next time mind ur language nd start thnkng abt ur religion.
@buddze The Quran has been forged years after the death of the Gansgster of the desert who never wrote down a word himself. Abu Bakr and Uthman did the job on their own years later. There is no single scientific proof to assert the words of the quran are those of M, and the words of M being Allah's..
Go ahead and debate all you want. I don't give shit what the koran says. I form my opinions based on the actions of the people that follow that book. I don't like what I see. I am sick of hearing about the "moderate muslim majority". If they exist why do they NEVER speak out against the atrocities and behavior of suicide bombers and their ilk? That silence speaks volumes to me. Look at the protest we see where there are throngs of hate filled muslims in the streets.
Silent are you kidding me!? Why do you think there are so many muslims jailed or killed in these countries? Because they speak out! The only reason you didn't hear it is because you weren't there to hear it. The biggest victims of fundamentalist muslims are the regular muslims.
Ya know, I have heard that line before. But you may have a point and there may well be some moderates but, a majority; it would be hard to convince me of that. OTOH there may well be more than I think and you may be right, that I am not there to hear them. Having said all that, the lunatic fanatics, regardless of their actual numbers, have enough power and do enough damage to make most non muslims very wary. I think the "moderates" need to be more vocal and get organized.
This video should be shown to every Islamic extremist, who uses the Quran to justify committing acts of terrorism on innocent people.
If Muslims spent as much time attacking the views of the extremists in their community, instead of those who oppose Islam, the world would be a much better, and safer place.
all i can say is fankx for postin this video this should be viwed by everyone who watched the ftna movie n then decide what islam realli means n for every perosn whus posted a stupid comment GET A LIFE IF U AINT GOT NEFIN GD TO SAY THEN DONT SAY NEFIN KEEP UR MOUTH SHUT
lisen yh im a muslim born in england so it makes it my country so fink b4 u say sumfin ppl lyk u need help sort ur life out n jus accepr the fact tht britain is MULTICULTURAL
Islam makes a clear distinction between combatants and noncombatants.
Even A Muslim is never allowed to initiate hostilities. "And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but transgress not the limits. Surely, Allah likes not the transgressors." [2: 190].
if god has made us all how the hell he addresses someone as "they" and muslims as "us".all muslims are the ppl who are still being fooled by mohammad by fantasies he gave 1500 yrs ago!
When allah created humans, they only have the mind of freewill and ppl who look at islam in a bad way only to be hypnotize by the media about how bad islam is should look at muslims as they each look at islam in a differnt way and some perform inexcuseable non islamics actions such as extremist who cannot be forgiven by allah, but other muslims such as the ones in makka are doing nothing wrong and yet our religion is suffering from the muslims in the wrong path and the media who make us look bad
it is u (the so called moderate muslims) who allow the extremist bastards to represent islam and yourselves! if u cannot oppose them, then rest of us doing just fine by killing these mullahs who just satisfy there own wills by lives of idiot illeterate muslims and innocent ppl.
u idiot we dont allow them to represent us, how can we oppose them if we dont know where they live. it is just u one minded idiot who just look at islam in the violent way
Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, 'You have helped Allah and His Apostle.' Umayr said. 'She had five sons; should I feel guilty?' 'No,' the Prophet answered. 'Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.'"
And this religion says that it's a religion of peace. Learn the history of how Muhammad thought and acted.
It appears the first half of my comment was deleted or not posted. It is a hadith that shows Muhammad's total disregard for life by having his critics murdered for him. He did not tolerate any criticism or dissent against him. I'll try to find the first half of it.
Here's Muhammad's attitude toward criticism and killing innocent women:
Ishaq: 676 "'You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?' Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, 'Will no one rid me of this woman?' Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet's wishes. That very night he crept into the writer's home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast...
Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, 'You have helped Allah and His Apostle.' Umayr said. 'She had five sons; should I feel guilty?' 'No,' the Prophet answered. 'Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.'"
And this religion says that it's a religion of peace. Learn the history of how Muhammad thought and acted.
The problem with hadiths is that there are over 30,000 of them and only 10,000 are deemed accurate, plus the fact that many of the Hadiths were written for the sole fact of making Muhammad look bad as opposed to recording accurate facts.
MoX531- What modern Muslims and apologists are trying to do is white-wash Muhammad to make him appear virtuous, when the truth is he was dasterdly. Your statements are inaccurate-what sources are you quoting. The hadiths were eye-witnessed by Muslims who were his friends,followers,and Companions. If only a few showed his immoral behavior, it could be argued these might be flawed, but there are 1000's attesting that he was a criminal. Did you know he had over 30 poets murdered b/c they spoke out?
You obviously have a very poor understanding of what a hadith is...a hadith are oral traditions passed down.....the first ones ever made occured in 656 AD Muhammad died in 632...hardly eyewitness...the first written accounts were made 100 years after the prohets death
you also fail to notice that hadiths contradict each other constantly...you say that Muhammad encouraged the murder of people who were against him but Sahih al-Bukhârî, Vol. 3, Bk. 47, No. 786 explains how Muhammad forbade people from harming a woman who tried to serve him poisoned food.
Al-Hasafky, Sharh Ad-Durr-el-Mukhtar, Volume 1, p. 483 says that apostate women should not be harmed......these hadiths contradict yours...how do you know yours is the one that is right and mine are not?
MoX-Are you so undiscerning that you cannot see that Bukhari's hadiths were written approx. 250 years after Mo's death, and are less reliable than Ibn Sa'ad or Ibn Ishaq's biography/hadiths? If you tried to write something about someone who lived 250 years ago, how accurate do you think it might be? Not very. However Ishaq's were recorded only about 120 years after Mo's death, making it closer to the source, and more reliable. Bear in mind there are no rebuttal hadiths rejecting Mo's criminality
See thats your problem, true Bukhari was written later but Bukhari and Ishaq are compilations of Hadiths that were told all through out history. they have been in existence long before either were written....a hadith in Bukhari was not necessarily older or younger than Ishaq. The fact also remains that Bukhari is considered the most authentic of all hadith collections...only seconded to the Qu'ran itself...if you disagree take your case to the scholars themselves
MoX- re: older vs. younger hadiths. I'm talking about when they were put in print- codified, if you will. You have yet to explain how later dated written hadiths contain far less of the violence and barbarity than earlier ones. The History of al-Tabari repeats the earliest hadiths/biography by Ishaq, but even he chose to omit the most atrocious acts of Muhammad, b/c they would have offended the Muslim community. He says as much in his book, about 250years after Mo died.
MoX- Bukhari is only "considered the most authentic" by those blind to the older, more raw and genuine hadiths that show Muhammad's criminality. They are deceived believers, rather than truth-seekers. The hadiths that expose the truth that Muhammad was an unvirtuous and unmerciful savage will become increasingly known thru the internet, as those oldest of documents are almost impossible to find in libraries. And if any light is shed on them the "science of hadith" farse will be exposed.
MoX- I've been studying hadtihs and sira for years, and I see you have a flawed way of thinking. Using your dates of 656-632=24 years between Mo's death and your claimed 1st hadiths- Are you trying to tell us that things written about him 24 years previous are totally unreliable? ANY victim or witness of murder, kidnapping, rape, robbery,torture, assassination would VIVIDLY remember such atrocities that Muhammad and his henchmen committed.
MoX- You didn't answer my question- What sources are you referencing to arrive at your conclusion? Answer me. A book? A website? Name it. Also, the hadiths were collected and are as reliable as the collection of the Koran. Both contain a mixture of truth and error, because they are based upon oral tradition. But one thing we know is that the oldest hadiths are closer to the dates of the events are historians regard them as more reliable than later ones by Bukhari and Muslim.
If you seriously believe this on Hadiths you obviously did not study them as you claimed...not all hadiths are viewed as authentic there is almost a science to determine wethere they are accurate, weak, or entirely made up. sahīh (sound, authentic), da`īf (weak), or mawdū` (fabricated)...how could you have studied them for so long and missed this?
Abd al-Rahim al-Iraqi, al-Taqyid wa al-Idhah, pg. 207, Dar al-Kutub al-'Ilmiyah, Beirut
MoX- You're taking the side of Muslim apologists if you say there is a "science" to studying hadiths. Time to turn your own brain on, and tune them out. The truth is the only discernment from that position is that anything negative or criminal about Muhammad must be automatically false, and everything positive or virtuous must be absolutely true. Don't be deceived by isnad/chain of narration or any hocus-pocus. You accuse me of not studying, but I'm revealing I'm not deceived by that ruse.
JCM- If you are so correct then why don't you give me some of YOUR sources please? Right now its just your word. If you want to challenge the academic views please give me some support? And please don't use prophetofdoom, religionofpeace..
P.s- So how do you know whats true and whats false? You contradict yourself in that department...you claim all Hadiths must be true, but when I point out some hadiths that show Muhammad to be virtuous you claim those to be false, whats real and whats not?
f one really wants to know what Islam really teaches,and who the real Muhammad is one must read the oldest biography and history of them, written by Muslims. These works are 1.Sira Rasul Allah, written 750 A.D. by Ibn Ishaq(English translation is called The Life of Muhammad,by Alfred Guillaume);and 2. History of al-Tabari, written between 870 A.D.-920 A.D.; 3.Any Hadiths by al-Bukhari or Muslim. Read them alongside the Quran to establish context,and discover that Muhammad/Islam are fraudulent
MoX- the "accusation" you refer to was not invented by some Christian missionary- the testimony of Muhammad's approval of the assassination of the poet Asma bint Marwan came did not come from critics outside Islam, but came from Muslims who were there. And it would be as easy to confirm as asking the grandson of an eyewitness whether that murder took place. That's believable. Hadiths written 250+ years later crediting Mo as having a compassionate attitude are fanciful histical revisionism
MoX-I haven't contradicted myself once. I never claimed all hadiths are true. Scroll up and read my words. You should study the evolution of the character of Muhammad, based on hadtihs/sira. You will discover the gradual transformation of him going from barbarian to paragon of virtue in only a few hundred years. Have you ever read Ishaq or Tabari? I doubt it. Your conclusions are based on little knowledge
I'm sorry but I refuse to allow someone as ignorant as yourself to lecture me on Hadith...you still do not know what Hadith is..Hadiths are Oral traditions...Ishaq, Tabari, Bukhari etc etc etc recorded and compiled them.
I have not read those two..but I have read Al-Zuhri, Al-Zahm the two earliest collections, and they portray Muhammad as a man of virtue. The Earliest sources of Muhammad found, show him as a kind, virtuous man....your notion must be false.
MoX- What is the name of the source that contains the hadtiths of Al-Zuhri and Al-Zahm? What was it published as? How can you say you know hadiths if you've never even read the 2 oldest written sources? How many murders, kidnappings, rapes, tortues, assassinations, robberies, etc. of Muhammad must you read before you admit he was a highly immoral criminal? The massive collections of hadith stating that Muhammad was unvirtuous is overwhelming. Their meticulous recording by devout Muslims condemns
MoX- At least 3 times you've asked me for evidence, sources, and proof, and I've done exactly that. And still you blindly accuse me of not providing them. Let me lead you by the hand again:1.sources- Ishaq, Tabari, Ibn Sa'd, Bukhari, Muslim.2.conclusions- based on overwhelming testimony within ancient manuscripts, not modern authors reinterpretations. I have referred to the oldest of written accounts. You however have only shown me a Bio by a modern author. You need to read more
Overwhelming testimony? What overwhelming testimony? Seriously did you actually read these? These collections overwhelmingly support my arguments not yours. All biographers use these sources and they all come back saying the same thing...why are you so desperate to prove the impossible? Honestly god gave you a brain, use it
I am amused...and at the same time saddend by your refusal to support your arguments with sources. Instead you have resorted to Ad hominem attacks, which means your getting desperate. This is the fourth and final time I will ask you for support. You have only provided hadith collections that scholars have used throughout time as sources for their bios..and they have been positive ones. I have provided one such bio...you have provided none, instead you just reject it.
If one really wants to know what Islam really teaches,and who the real Muhammad is one must read the oldest biography and history of them, written by Muslims. These works are 1.Sira Rasul Allah, written 750 A.D. by Ibn Ishaq(English translation is called The Life of Muhammad,by Alfred Guillaume);and 2. History of al-Tabari, written between 870 A.D.-920 A.D.; 3.Any Hadiths by al-Bukhari or Muslim. Read them alongside the Quran to establish context,and discover that Muhammad/Islam are fraudulent
This is all information that speak favorably about Prophet Muhammed we are still waiting for him to site one source that proves Muhammad was a savage:
.Sira Rasul Allah, written 750 A.D. by Ibn Ishaq(English translation is called The Life of Muhammad,by Alfred Guillaume);and 2. History of al-Tabari, written between 870 A.D.-920 A.D.; 3.Any Hadiths by al-Bukhari or Muslim....all speak favorably of Muhammed and describe him as a man of virtue..still waiting for your sources.
MoX- You should be embarrassed- your ignorance is showing. And your big fat lie about having read them is glaring. If you actually did read Ishaq and Tabari, which you haven't, you would have come across hundreds of accounts of his crimes. Tell me- which edition, publisher, and year of printing do you have of those work? In the mean time, I'll refute the lies you've been spinning to readers that these works don't contain accounts of his unvirtuous nature and behaviour.
why should I? Did I ever accuse you of making verses up? Did I accuse you of lying? No...I never said that those verses don't exist..I just say you have a terribly understanding of hadith and hadith literature and you do....only anti-Islam propagandists would simply spew quotes that mention the word "kill" and go "SEE SEE Mo is a bad man a bad man a bad man!" without further study, discussions with other professors, researching to understand the context and wether if its credible or not.
Mox- Yes, the testimony that Muhammad was an unvirtuous criminal is overwhelming, based on the earliest accounts. I've read them myself, and you have admitted you haven't. You said "These collections overwhelmingly support my arguments not yours"- How would you know that? You told me you had not read them! Scroll up, find a copy of Ishaq and Tabari's work, THEN ACTUALLY READ THEM. Don't gloss over the hundreds of accounts showing Muhammad as a violent and unmerciful cur though.
Don't gloss over the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of essays, biographies, ariticles that use those sources to prove that he wasn't they go into great detail to show what they believe and what they don't..I suggest you go into your local bookstore and pick one up.
MoX- I'm sure that Hitler and Saddam Hussein liked puppies, flowers, and children too. But don't overlook that they were like Muhammad, and approved of mass-murder- the accounts are in the works I cited, that you lie about reading. Tabari VIII:40 "The Messenger commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence."
Explain to the readers how this shows mercy, or a virtuous character.
Prove to me those accounts are valid....I asked you to prove them one month ago you haven't..instead you are repeating verses that have been proven by historians to be false...give an account that has been proven to be true..then we'll talk...
p.s I wasn't lying when I said I read them..if you want to debate do not insult people it only lowers YOUR credibility.
i like wat u said and i would like to add thave i have also asked from pple to prove that islam is worng and give me the proff but no1 has ever doen that because they dont think for themselfs they only say wat they hear... but if they do there research then they will come to the truth themselfs and relise that they were mistaken...
I haven't read sources that use that one specifically....but however since your a big fan of Ishaq, and Tabari I would like to point out that some of the bios I read incudding "The Life of Muhammad: According to earliest sources" By Martin Lings draws heavily from Ishaq and Tabari.....and he concludes based on those sources that Muhammad was virtuous, honest, good man. If the evidence was so "overwhelming" his biography would look radically different wouldn't it?
MoX- how could you let Martin Lings spoon feed your opinion to you? Do you realize how many Muhammad-inspired atrocities he has neglected to mention? Why should you believe a candy-coated version of who Muhammad is, when you have eyes to read otherwise. YOU MUST READ THE ORIGINAL SOURCES YOURSELF. Wake up man! Will you continue to say of Muhammad "Peace Be Upon Him" after you read and discover that he was an immoral degenerate, worthy of prison.
MoX- Lings was deceived into converting to the false religion of Muhammad. Of course he's going to give the most favourable book about him! Consider this- Adolph Hitler liked puppies, and children. I suppose based on this incomplete knowledge of him, you would conclude he was a good man, wouldn't you? Why do you refuse to read or believe unfavourable accounts of Muhammad? Because the Muslim apologetics spin-machine told you not to? Lings was disregarding Muhammad's unvirtuous character
However you still have not provided any sources or evidence supporting your side...you just provided one hadith, asserting that its accurate. You reject the method people use to ascertain the validity of Hadiths, and then you think your in some position to demand sources from me? I supported my case, you have not.....you want me to believe me? Prove to me those Hadiths were real eyewitness accounts and not false statements made to simply defame him
MoX- Let me turn your own question back on you? Prove to me favourable Hadiths were from real eyewitnesses and not false statements made to make him appear virtuous. Go ahead- the burden of proof is on you. I've said it before, I'll say it again- if there were only a few unreliable accounts of murders, robberies, terrorism, kidnapping, rape by Muhammad, it might be considered suspect.There are hundreds of accounts by numerous sources by his contemporaries showing his barbarity, proving him BAD
No the burden of proof is on YOU! not me, why me? The scholarly view on Muhammad is one that he is a man of virtue. You are challenging that view...as such it is up to the challenger to prove his point..I have already shown you the methods used by scholars to decide which Hadiths are calid and which are not..which you rejected...therefore the burden is on you to show me how to decide which ones are accurate and which ones are not
MoX- You refer to men you call 'scholars" and "the scholarly view". I simply call them what they are- deceived muslim academic propagandists. The true scholars are not automatically rejecting any ancient testimonies that declare Muhammad was a violent and contemptible savage. Tell me- how many murders, kidnappings, rapes, robberies, tortures, and assassinations is Muhammad really responsible for? None? How would you feel if those acts happened to your family members? Would you thank Mo for it?
still waiting for you to cite your support...or to prove your case, still haven't done it friend.
Ishaq and Tabari are full of accounts on how great of a man Mohammed was. We got hundreds of scholarly (by scholarly I mean people who have studied these works intently and actually looked into what is real and what is not)
Simply stating "I read Ishaq and Tabari" doesn't prove anything...We read them too and they overwhelmingly support our argument not yours...I suggest your reread them.
MoX- evidence of the false prophet Mohammad's evil character, where he approves of assassination of a critic, and lying about it later:
Bukhari:V4B52N270 "Allah's Messenger said, 'Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.' Maslama got up saying, 'Would you like me to kill him?' The Prophet proclaimed, 'Yes.' Maslama said, 'Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.' Muhammad said, 'You may do so.'"
MoX- You said " You have no sources to back up your claims so you have to resort to ad hominem attacks". Yes, I've shown you my sources, and no, I haven't insulted you even once.
"You still have not provided ANY source that backs you up". Scroll up- doesn't your mouse work? You've had a month, have you found and read Ishaq and Tabari yet?
MoX- even more evidence the racist Mohammad approved of the mass-murder of children:
Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 BOYS and men."
MoX- here's an account of Mo approving the torture and execution of a black slave:
Tabari VIII:122
Ishaq:515 "The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, 'Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah's chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him."
Would you want your son to have this same violent nature as the false prophet?
MoX- You said " I have read Al-Zuhri, Al-Zahm the two earliest collections". Really? You have their collections, or a copy of their works? What ancient document are they contained in? I'm not aware of manuscriptts by them anywhere in existance. Don't try to con me. You obviously have NOT read the "Earliest" sources about Muhammad. If you did, his criminal actions would make you sick, and you could never believe he was honorable. You believe cherry-picked exaggerated positive accounts.
I also notice you still have not answered my question i asked earlier...there are many Hadiths that came (both before and after hadiths that show him as a bad guy) that show Muhammad in a positive light....on. What do YOU use to diffrentiate which ones are right which ones are wrong?
i just saw the fitna video myself ... and was surprized how my religion could be that way . but then i just stepped back and thought about this
of all the hundreds of thousands of muslims i've met and associated with over my life time.. I cannot pick but a handful of people who would even moderately cross the line of tolerance.
Fitna was just a narrowed microscopic description of one speck of dirt on an otherwise clean window, and its a shame that's how we're protrayed..
Do you want to know what else is sad?? That mulsim leaders Worldwide are not standing up to condem the acts of that "dirt speck" that you speak of. It's sad that they don't take massive, internal action to clearn up that "dirt speck". Is it possible that those like you are mostly quiet about what the "dirt speck" is doing because you are glad someone is helping rid the World of "unbelivers"? When I see that the mulsim world can live in peace with anybody else, then maybe I'll listen.
"..because you are glad someone is helping rid the world of unbelievers"
the fact that i NEVER even came close to such thoughts simply proves to show how 'relative' an observation of text can be...and how it can be intentionally misinterpreted by people with one-sided views.
You are doing EXACTLY what you condemn son...think about it.
.I wish that human realize that no religion teach us to do violent.N pls do not misuse the freedom of speech.the movie is a sad thing.I hope any religion just b together despite the different beliefs.
is corrupting the peace.I wish that human realize that no religion teach us to do violent.N pls do not misuse the freedom of speech.the movie is a sad thing.I hope any religion just b together despite the different beliefs.
Quoting the Bible doesn't help your case either. That only proves that the Quranic ViolentVerses are not without precedent. There ARE MORE of them in the Qur'an however & they're much more one-dimensional and repetitive.
All ur "refutations" are so weak & they don't really add up to much. The context ur giving for the ViolentVerses proves Wilders' point: they're not about spiritual struggle, they're about tribes, villages, individuals etc. not running after the so-called prophet, in the language of the Mohammadan camp followers this constituted treachery. The first caliph waged military campaigns against people who thought they had finally got rid of the tyrannical prophet, but no...his 'spiritual' successor!
Mr wilders you are sick...
get well soon..
may Allah guide you to the right path..
MegaFahad12 3 months ago
Idiots..... Racism...... Hypocrites.............. Why are these dutch morons are messing with muslims i mean what did they do? if they have a porblems with muslim they shud keep it to them selves and not make a bloody movie stupid idiots
bigfootavengerful 4 months ago
two words, Fuck Geert!
MisterTheLawence 6 months ago
Many people who hate Islam, I think those are clear that Islam is the light. I mean more and more they hate Islam, it makes Islam clearer that Islam is the truth, no doubt in Islam, they always try to keep Islam apart and they won't stop breaking Islam down, worsen the Islam image, and Islam was always getting tyrant..
I was so wondered..
Why people always hate Islam? What's wrong with Islam? Are they envy with the Islam's clear?
ArieKnap11 6 months ago
Geert is right, islam is evil.
islam4scum 10 months ago
@islam4scum Your ugly pathetic and a tramp.
bigfootavengerful 4 months ago 3
Instead of addressing your anger at Wilders, you should be putting your efforts into stopping your extremists and also learn to assimilate into countries that offer you shelter.
beaujeste1 1 year ago
@beaujeste1 tottaly agree with you.
reetscheter 9 months ago
Instead of addressing your anger at Wilders, you should be putting your efforts into stopping your extremists and also learn to assimilate into countries that offer you shelter.
beaujeste1 1 year ago
It is just extremely lame. who talks so much crap if theyer against violence? That makes you guys crappier than what ur talking about. You stupid buddhists r probably most likely jealous because no one reall follows ur religion and isnt gowing as fast as islam u peices of crap! islam is the second largest religoon in the world and the fastest growing. hw do u explain that? hw about u all suck some u haters your gona get it in hell!
oxcateyezxoo 1 year ago
you guys pretty much want to hate on Islam and make your religios sound perfect. HOW is that PEACEFUL? To each his own! and Each religion must be respected, just dont talk about people that way, now would you like it if someone went against your religion? It's pretty hurtfull. People! Don't follow others just because they hate, that doesnt mean you should! respect the people around you no matter who they are.
oxcateyezxoo 1 year ago
Extremely lame attempt at refutation. In fact, given the lameness, the video actually bolstered Wilder's video and should serve as a further warning that "War is Deceit," and that only the ignorant and naive would fall for this attempt to justify murder, abuse, and oppression in the name of the "religion of peace."
Derengowski 1 year ago
If you're looking for the truth you won't find it in the quran, that's for sure.
3xtob 1 year ago
@3xtob why do u say that? what do u know about the quraan? u know nothing about the islam and the quraan. read it then judge
laithy6699 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Stop your propaganda. Islam is a religion of hatred, war, violence. Why? Because Muhammed was a warrior. All you have to do is read the hadiths. They tell you how Muhammed killed, looted, distributed the spoils of the people he attacked. He penetrated Aicha, had many wives, captives, owned slaves. He was a real impostor. Read also your quran and its violent calls to war, to hatred against the "infidel": 4:95, 5:51, 2:191, 2:216, 8:12, 9:5, 9:29, 9:39, 9:123
MegaLoveMessage 1 year ago
Stop your propaganda. Islam is a religion of hatred, war, violence. Why? Because Muhammed was a warrior. All you have to do is read the hadiths. They tell you how Muhammed killed, looted, distributed the spoils of the people he attacked. He penetrated Aicha, had many wives, captives, owned slaves. He was a real impostor. Read also your quran and its violent calls to war, to hatred against the "infidel": 4:95, 5:51, 2:191, 2:216, 8:12, 9:5, 9:29, 9:39, 9:123
MegaLoveMessage 1 year ago
Muslims are dishonest. When a text is too embarrasing then "it is out of context", not when it says sth good, of course. But what kind of context would allow killing, war as you find in the quran? Besides the coran has very little context. It jumps from one subject to the other without transition. The quran is full of aggressive texts that has nothing to do with God: 5:51, 2:191, 2: 216, 8:12, 9:05, 9:29, 9:39, 9, 123, etc. Unlike Buddha and Jesus, Muhammed was a warrior, a killer
DictaduraNo123 1 year ago
@DictaduraNo123
hope that after this massage you should make your selfe discrening about Muhammad (SAWW) he was just a guider of the people and massanger of allah that he wants to show to the people the best way the light way and your compearing a scluptuer with a real man in Islam world that he has about millions followers and sequent so just try to understand your self that Buddah is just a scluptuer and Jessus was also a massanger of allah that Allah has sent him Like Muhammad
najeebns 1 year ago
Great Video, but where are the people who are looking for the truth....People are blinded by the media.
May God guide those islamophobes, but seriously I can't pray for the liar Wilders, I just can't..
AnInvitationToTheTru 1 year ago
3.12 . Say ( O Muhammad ) unto those who disbelieve : Ye shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell , an evil resting place .
valmont2044 2 years ago
9.33 . He it is who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the Religion of Truth , that He may cause it to prevail over all religion , however much the idolaters may be averse .
valmont2044 2 years ago
I am with MOX531....................
zeeshandar 2 years ago
The script moves to fast. It should be slowed down a little.
star8223 2 years ago
how dare you guys talk bad abt islam?!
islam is a relegion of peace,
and HOW DARE u guys make fun of our beloved Prophet Muhammad s.a.w ?!
Just so u guys noe, even the non-muslims in the early times beleived in our Prophet s.a.w ..
because they knew that our prophet had never ever lied ! They beleived in HIM but they don't in Islam. If u guys want to know the truth, refer the Quran. Even non-muslims scientists refer to It to complete their researches. So stop making fun of our relegion!
PrincessPurrfect12 2 years ago
@PrincessPurrfect12 Religion of peace. It has conquered by the sword since 622. 2.191 . And slay them wherever ye find them , and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out , for persecution is worse than slaughter . And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there , but if they attack you ( there ) then slay them . Such is the reward of disbelievers .
valmont2044 2 years ago
you all are big idiots and ofcourse jahanami's. How dare u critisize our beloved Prophet (PBUH). Why look anywhere else for Info abt islam, why dont u just read the HOLY QURAN bcoz thats the book we read and follow. and if u find any negative thing in their then tell me, because u wont. and who the hell is science to prove anything wrong abt islam, islam has never promoted terrorism sme psyco people have like u guys. next time mind ur language nd start thnkng abt ur religion.
buddze 2 years ago
@buddze The Quran has been forged years after the death of the Gansgster of the desert who never wrote down a word himself. Abu Bakr and Uthman did the job on their own years later. There is no single scientific proof to assert the words of the quran are those of M, and the words of M being Allah's..
valmont2044 2 years ago
Go ahead and debate all you want. I don't give shit what the koran says. I form my opinions based on the actions of the people that follow that book. I don't like what I see. I am sick of hearing about the "moderate muslim majority". If they exist why do they NEVER speak out against the atrocities and behavior of suicide bombers and their ilk? That silence speaks volumes to me. Look at the protest we see where there are throngs of hate filled muslims in the streets.
Lagolop 2 years ago
Silent are you kidding me!? Why do you think there are so many muslims jailed or killed in these countries? Because they speak out! The only reason you didn't hear it is because you weren't there to hear it. The biggest victims of fundamentalist muslims are the regular muslims.
MoX531 2 years ago
MoX531
Ya know, I have heard that line before. But you may have a point and there may well be some moderates but, a majority; it would be hard to convince me of that. OTOH there may well be more than I think and you may be right, that I am not there to hear them. Having said all that, the lunatic fanatics, regardless of their actual numbers, have enough power and do enough damage to make most non muslims very wary. I think the "moderates" need to be more vocal and get organized.
Lagolop 2 years ago
This video should be shown to every Islamic extremist, who uses the Quran to justify committing acts of terrorism on innocent people.
If Muslims spent as much time attacking the views of the extremists in their community, instead of those who oppose Islam, the world would be a much better, and safer place.
MrNobody808 3 years ago 2
all i can say is fankx for postin this video this should be viwed by everyone who watched the ftna movie n then decide what islam realli means n for every perosn whus posted a stupid comment GET A LIFE IF U AINT GOT NEFIN GD TO SAY THEN DONT SAY NEFIN KEEP UR MOUTH SHUT
rudeboi345 3 years ago
there should not be any muslims in britain.They are not from this country and should not be allowed in
ke11er5tain 3 years ago
lisen yh im a muslim born in england so it makes it my country so fink b4 u say sumfin ppl lyk u need help sort ur life out n jus accepr the fact tht britain is MULTICULTURAL
rudeboi345 3 years ago
whats the name of the song its wicked
DamienLOFTY 3 years ago
PUT PRESSURE on the Government of the Netherlands for charging Geert Wilders with Hate Crimes for producing FITNA:
government dotnl slashcontact
Brdstfff 3 years ago
wilders 4 president!!
1terrorlord 3 years ago
i really laugh at you terrorlord
magiox55 3 years ago 2
thanks for the video
LemmyBosshart 3 years ago
to "MARINERHEART":
OUR ALLAH DONT KILL TH NON MUSLIMS BCOZ HE WANTS THM TO REALISE THT NON MUSLIM ARE ON A WRONG PATH AND THT PATH LEADS STRGHT TO HELL.
ALLAH WANTS THM TO REALISE THT ISLAM IS TH ONLY TRUTHFUL RELIGION.PLZ TKE THS CMMENT WITH CONSIDERATION.MAY GOD GUIDE U ALL.!!!!
XxXNabiilah89XxX 3 years ago
iSLAM TO ME IS ALL ABOUT BONDAGE,AND CHRISTIANITY IS ALL ABOUT FREEDOM.
pricelesspam 3 years ago
Muslimsmacker if you really meant what you said you are on a straight path to hell. i can say one thing that you have no prove of what you just said.
torlma 3 years ago 2
Killing innocents is forbidden in Islam.
Islam makes a clear distinction between combatants and noncombatants.
Even A Muslim is never allowed to initiate hostilities. "And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but transgress not the limits. Surely, Allah likes not the transgressors." [2: 190].
praetorians25 3 years ago
a book from god can never have a word "KILL" or "AMPUTATE" be it in any context. why will god divide ppl as enemy and muslim.
. if non-muslims are not acceptable to god, then why are they still born and why not killed by ur allah?
to a nuetral mind it is 100% clear that muhammad wrote this book to fool tribal arabs and he was successful.
stupid ppl didn't realize if there was god he would consider all men,animals and insects equal. u think there is special god for only muslims.
marinerheart 3 years ago
and why does ur book always say "they"
if they do this do that! why?
if god has made us all how the hell he addresses someone as "they" and muslims as "us".all muslims are the ppl who are still being fooled by mohammad by fantasies he gave 1500 yrs ago!
72 virgins! go get'em
marinerheart 3 years ago
When allah created humans, they only have the mind of freewill and ppl who look at islam in a bad way only to be hypnotize by the media about how bad islam is should look at muslims as they each look at islam in a differnt way and some perform inexcuseable non islamics actions such as extremist who cannot be forgiven by allah, but other muslims such as the ones in makka are doing nothing wrong and yet our religion is suffering from the muslims in the wrong path and the media who make us look bad
torlma 3 years ago
it is u (the so called moderate muslims) who allow the extremist bastards to represent islam and yourselves! if u cannot oppose them, then rest of us doing just fine by killing these mullahs who just satisfy there own wills by lives of idiot illeterate muslims and innocent ppl.
marinerheart 3 years ago
u idiot we dont allow them to represent us, how can we oppose them if we dont know where they live. it is just u one minded idiot who just look at islam in the violent way
torlma 3 years ago
(Continued)
Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, 'You have helped Allah and His Apostle.' Umayr said. 'She had five sons; should I feel guilty?' 'No,' the Prophet answered. 'Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.'"
And this religion says that it's a religion of peace. Learn the history of how Muhammad thought and acted.
jcmjelve 3 years ago
IS THIS IN A HADITH?
pricelesspam 3 years ago
It appears the first half of my comment was deleted or not posted. It is a hadith that shows Muhammad's total disregard for life by having his critics murdered for him. He did not tolerate any criticism or dissent against him. I'll try to find the first half of it.
jcmjelve 3 years ago
Here's Muhammad's attitude toward criticism and killing innocent women:
Ishaq: 676 "'You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?' Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, 'Will no one rid me of this woman?' Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet's wishes. That very night he crept into the writer's home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast...
(continued) ..
jcmjelve 3 years ago
Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, 'You have helped Allah and His Apostle.' Umayr said. 'She had five sons; should I feel guilty?' 'No,' the Prophet answered. 'Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.'"
And this religion says that it's a religion of peace. Learn the history of how Muhammad thought and acted.
To this day Muslims follow his example
jcmjelve 3 years ago
The problem with hadiths is that there are over 30,000 of them and only 10,000 are deemed accurate, plus the fact that many of the Hadiths were written for the sole fact of making Muhammad look bad as opposed to recording accurate facts.
MoX531 2 years ago
MoX531- What modern Muslims and apologists are trying to do is white-wash Muhammad to make him appear virtuous, when the truth is he was dasterdly. Your statements are inaccurate-what sources are you quoting. The hadiths were eye-witnessed by Muslims who were his friends,followers,and Companions. If only a few showed his immoral behavior, it could be argued these might be flawed, but there are 1000's attesting that he was a criminal. Did you know he had over 30 poets murdered b/c they spoke out?
jcmjelve 2 years ago
You obviously have a very poor understanding of what a hadith is...a hadith are oral traditions passed down.....the first ones ever made occured in 656 AD Muhammad died in 632...hardly eyewitness...the first written accounts were made 100 years after the prohets death
MoX531 2 years ago
you also fail to notice that hadiths contradict each other constantly...you say that Muhammad encouraged the murder of people who were against him but Sahih al-Bukhârî, Vol. 3, Bk. 47, No. 786 explains how Muhammad forbade people from harming a woman who tried to serve him poisoned food.
Al-Hasafky, Sharh Ad-Durr-el-Mukhtar, Volume 1, p. 483 says that apostate women should not be harmed......these hadiths contradict yours...how do you know yours is the one that is right and mine are not?
MoX531 2 years ago
MoX-Are you so undiscerning that you cannot see that Bukhari's hadiths were written approx. 250 years after Mo's death, and are less reliable than Ibn Sa'ad or Ibn Ishaq's biography/hadiths? If you tried to write something about someone who lived 250 years ago, how accurate do you think it might be? Not very. However Ishaq's were recorded only about 120 years after Mo's death, making it closer to the source, and more reliable. Bear in mind there are no rebuttal hadiths rejecting Mo's criminality
jcmjelve 2 years ago
See thats your problem, true Bukhari was written later but Bukhari and Ishaq are compilations of Hadiths that were told all through out history. they have been in existence long before either were written....a hadith in Bukhari was not necessarily older or younger than Ishaq. The fact also remains that Bukhari is considered the most authentic of all hadith collections...only seconded to the Qu'ran itself...if you disagree take your case to the scholars themselves
MoX531 2 years ago
MoX- re: older vs. younger hadiths. I'm talking about when they were put in print- codified, if you will. You have yet to explain how later dated written hadiths contain far less of the violence and barbarity than earlier ones. The History of al-Tabari repeats the earliest hadiths/biography by Ishaq, but even he chose to omit the most atrocious acts of Muhammad, b/c they would have offended the Muslim community. He says as much in his book, about 250years after Mo died.
jcmjelve 2 years ago
MoX- Bukhari is only "considered the most authentic" by those blind to the older, more raw and genuine hadiths that show Muhammad's criminality. They are deceived believers, rather than truth-seekers. The hadiths that expose the truth that Muhammad was an unvirtuous and unmerciful savage will become increasingly known thru the internet, as those oldest of documents are almost impossible to find in libraries. And if any light is shed on them the "science of hadith" farse will be exposed.
jcmjelve 2 years ago
MoX- I've been studying hadtihs and sira for years, and I see you have a flawed way of thinking. Using your dates of 656-632=24 years between Mo's death and your claimed 1st hadiths- Are you trying to tell us that things written about him 24 years previous are totally unreliable? ANY victim or witness of murder, kidnapping, rape, robbery,torture, assassination would VIVIDLY remember such atrocities that Muhammad and his henchmen committed.
jcmjelve 2 years ago
MoX- You didn't answer my question- What sources are you referencing to arrive at your conclusion? Answer me. A book? A website? Name it. Also, the hadiths were collected and are as reliable as the collection of the Koran. Both contain a mixture of truth and error, because they are based upon oral tradition. But one thing we know is that the oldest hadiths are closer to the dates of the events are historians regard them as more reliable than later ones by Bukhari and Muslim.
jcmjelve 2 years ago
If you seriously believe this on Hadiths you obviously did not study them as you claimed...not all hadiths are viewed as authentic there is almost a science to determine wethere they are accurate, weak, or entirely made up. sahīh (sound, authentic), da`īf (weak), or mawdū` (fabricated)...how could you have studied them for so long and missed this?
Abd al-Rahim al-Iraqi, al-Taqyid wa al-Idhah, pg. 207, Dar al-Kutub al-'Ilmiyah, Beirut
MoX531 2 years ago
MoX- You're taking the side of Muslim apologists if you say there is a "science" to studying hadiths. Time to turn your own brain on, and tune them out. The truth is the only discernment from that position is that anything negative or criminal about Muhammad must be automatically false, and everything positive or virtuous must be absolutely true. Don't be deceived by isnad/chain of narration or any hocus-pocus. You accuse me of not studying, but I'm revealing I'm not deceived by that ruse.
jcmjelve 2 years ago
JCM- If you are so correct then why don't you give me some of YOUR sources please? Right now its just your word. If you want to challenge the academic views please give me some support? And please don't use prophetofdoom, religionofpeace..
P.s- So how do you know whats true and whats false? You contradict yourself in that department...you claim all Hadiths must be true, but when I point out some hadiths that show Muhammad to be virtuous you claim those to be false, whats real and whats not?
MoX531 2 years ago
f one really wants to know what Islam really teaches,and who the real Muhammad is one must read the oldest biography and history of them, written by Muslims. These works are 1.Sira Rasul Allah, written 750 A.D. by Ibn Ishaq(English translation is called The Life of Muhammad,by Alfred Guillaume);and 2. History of al-Tabari, written between 870 A.D.-920 A.D.; 3.Any Hadiths by al-Bukhari or Muslim. Read them alongside the Quran to establish context,and discover that Muhammad/Islam are fraudulent
jcmjelve 2 years ago
Also keep in mind that accusation came from the Christian missionary Silas, who wanted to dispel Islam in favor of Chrisitanity.
MoX531 2 years ago
MoX- the "accusation" you refer to was not invented by some Christian missionary- the testimony of Muhammad's approval of the assassination of the poet Asma bint Marwan came did not come from critics outside Islam, but came from Muslims who were there. And it would be as easy to confirm as asking the grandson of an eyewitness whether that murder took place. That's believable. Hadiths written 250+ years later crediting Mo as having a compassionate attitude are fanciful histical revisionism
jcmjelve 2 years ago
MoX-I haven't contradicted myself once. I never claimed all hadiths are true. Scroll up and read my words. You should study the evolution of the character of Muhammad, based on hadtihs/sira. You will discover the gradual transformation of him going from barbarian to paragon of virtue in only a few hundred years. Have you ever read Ishaq or Tabari? I doubt it. Your conclusions are based on little knowledge
jcmjelve 2 years ago
I'm sorry but I refuse to allow someone as ignorant as yourself to lecture me on Hadith...you still do not know what Hadith is..Hadiths are Oral traditions...Ishaq, Tabari, Bukhari etc etc etc recorded and compiled them.
I have not read those two..but I have read Al-Zuhri, Al-Zahm the two earliest collections, and they portray Muhammad as a man of virtue. The Earliest sources of Muhammad found, show him as a kind, virtuous man....your notion must be false.
MoX531 2 years ago
MoX- What is the name of the source that contains the hadtiths of Al-Zuhri and Al-Zahm? What was it published as? How can you say you know hadiths if you've never even read the 2 oldest written sources? How many murders, kidnappings, rapes, tortues, assassinations, robberies, etc. of Muhammad must you read before you admit he was a highly immoral criminal? The massive collections of hadith stating that Muhammad was unvirtuous is overwhelming. Their meticulous recording by devout Muslims condemns
jcmjelve 2 years ago
Someone who refuses to give his sources is in no position to ask me mine.
MoX531 2 years ago
MoX- At least 3 times you've asked me for evidence, sources, and proof, and I've done exactly that. And still you blindly accuse me of not providing them. Let me lead you by the hand again:1.sources- Ishaq, Tabari, Ibn Sa'd, Bukhari, Muslim.2.conclusions- based on overwhelming testimony within ancient manuscripts, not modern authors reinterpretations. I have referred to the oldest of written accounts. You however have only shown me a Bio by a modern author. You need to read more
jcmjelve 2 years ago
Overwhelming testimony? What overwhelming testimony? Seriously did you actually read these? These collections overwhelmingly support my arguments not yours. All biographers use these sources and they all come back saying the same thing...why are you so desperate to prove the impossible? Honestly god gave you a brain, use it
MoX531 2 years ago
I am amused...and at the same time saddend by your refusal to support your arguments with sources. Instead you have resorted to Ad hominem attacks, which means your getting desperate. This is the fourth and final time I will ask you for support. You have only provided hadith collections that scholars have used throughout time as sources for their bios..and they have been positive ones. I have provided one such bio...you have provided none, instead you just reject it.
MoX531 2 years ago
if you have any information against Muhammad (PBUH) i want to know about it send me a web link.let me use my brain.
sportsman786 2 years ago
If one really wants to know what Islam really teaches,and who the real Muhammad is one must read the oldest biography and history of them, written by Muslims. These works are 1.Sira Rasul Allah, written 750 A.D. by Ibn Ishaq(English translation is called The Life of Muhammad,by Alfred Guillaume);and 2. History of al-Tabari, written between 870 A.D.-920 A.D.; 3.Any Hadiths by al-Bukhari or Muslim. Read them alongside the Quran to establish context,and discover that Muhammad/Islam are fraudulent
jcmjelve 2 years ago
This is all information that speak favorably about Prophet Muhammed we are still waiting for him to site one source that proves Muhammad was a savage:
.Sira Rasul Allah, written 750 A.D. by Ibn Ishaq(English translation is called The Life of Muhammad,by Alfred Guillaume);and 2. History of al-Tabari, written between 870 A.D.-920 A.D.; 3.Any Hadiths by al-Bukhari or Muslim....all speak favorably of Muhammed and describe him as a man of virtue..still waiting for your sources.
MoX531 2 years ago
MoX- You should be embarrassed- your ignorance is showing. And your big fat lie about having read them is glaring. If you actually did read Ishaq and Tabari, which you haven't, you would have come across hundreds of accounts of his crimes. Tell me- which edition, publisher, and year of printing do you have of those work? In the mean time, I'll refute the lies you've been spinning to readers that these works don't contain accounts of his unvirtuous nature and behaviour.
jcmjelve 2 years ago
why should I? Did I ever accuse you of making verses up? Did I accuse you of lying? No...I never said that those verses don't exist..I just say you have a terribly understanding of hadith and hadith literature and you do....only anti-Islam propagandists would simply spew quotes that mention the word "kill" and go "SEE SEE Mo is a bad man a bad man a bad man!" without further study, discussions with other professors, researching to understand the context and wether if its credible or not.
MoX531 2 years ago
Mox- Yes, the testimony that Muhammad was an unvirtuous criminal is overwhelming, based on the earliest accounts. I've read them myself, and you have admitted you haven't. You said "These collections overwhelmingly support my arguments not yours"- How would you know that? You told me you had not read them! Scroll up, find a copy of Ishaq and Tabari's work, THEN ACTUALLY READ THEM. Don't gloss over the hundreds of accounts showing Muhammad as a violent and unmerciful cur though.
jcmjelve 2 years ago
Don't gloss over the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of essays, biographies, ariticles that use those sources to prove that he wasn't they go into great detail to show what they believe and what they don't..I suggest you go into your local bookstore and pick one up.
MoX531 2 years ago
MoX- I'm sure that Hitler and Saddam Hussein liked puppies, flowers, and children too. But don't overlook that they were like Muhammad, and approved of mass-murder- the accounts are in the works I cited, that you lie about reading. Tabari VIII:40 "The Messenger commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence."
Explain to the readers how this shows mercy, or a virtuous character.
jcmjelve 2 years ago
Prove to me those accounts are valid....I asked you to prove them one month ago you haven't..instead you are repeating verses that have been proven by historians to be false...give an account that has been proven to be true..then we'll talk...
p.s I wasn't lying when I said I read them..if you want to debate do not insult people it only lowers YOUR credibility.
MoX531 2 years ago
i like wat u said and i would like to add thave i have also asked from pple to prove that islam is worng and give me the proff but no1 has ever doen that because they dont think for themselfs they only say wat they hear... but if they do there research then they will come to the truth themselfs and relise that they were mistaken...
ilufurniraqi 2 years ago
I haven't read sources that use that one specifically....but however since your a big fan of Ishaq, and Tabari I would like to point out that some of the bios I read incudding "The Life of Muhammad: According to earliest sources" By Martin Lings draws heavily from Ishaq and Tabari.....and he concludes based on those sources that Muhammad was virtuous, honest, good man. If the evidence was so "overwhelming" his biography would look radically different wouldn't it?
MoX531 2 years ago
MoX- how could you let Martin Lings spoon feed your opinion to you? Do you realize how many Muhammad-inspired atrocities he has neglected to mention? Why should you believe a candy-coated version of who Muhammad is, when you have eyes to read otherwise. YOU MUST READ THE ORIGINAL SOURCES YOURSELF. Wake up man! Will you continue to say of Muhammad "Peace Be Upon Him" after you read and discover that he was an immoral degenerate, worthy of prison.
jcmjelve 2 years ago
MoX- Lings was deceived into converting to the false religion of Muhammad. Of course he's going to give the most favourable book about him! Consider this- Adolph Hitler liked puppies, and children. I suppose based on this incomplete knowledge of him, you would conclude he was a good man, wouldn't you? Why do you refuse to read or believe unfavourable accounts of Muhammad? Because the Muslim apologetics spin-machine told you not to? Lings was disregarding Muhammad's unvirtuous character
jcmjelve 2 years ago
However you still have not provided any sources or evidence supporting your side...you just provided one hadith, asserting that its accurate. You reject the method people use to ascertain the validity of Hadiths, and then you think your in some position to demand sources from me? I supported my case, you have not.....you want me to believe me? Prove to me those Hadiths were real eyewitness accounts and not false statements made to simply defame him
MoX531 2 years ago
*you want me to believe you
MoX531 2 years ago
MoX- Let me turn your own question back on you? Prove to me favourable Hadiths were from real eyewitnesses and not false statements made to make him appear virtuous. Go ahead- the burden of proof is on you. I've said it before, I'll say it again- if there were only a few unreliable accounts of murders, robberies, terrorism, kidnapping, rape by Muhammad, it might be considered suspect.There are hundreds of accounts by numerous sources by his contemporaries showing his barbarity, proving him BAD
jcmjelve 2 years ago
No the burden of proof is on YOU! not me, why me? The scholarly view on Muhammad is one that he is a man of virtue. You are challenging that view...as such it is up to the challenger to prove his point..I have already shown you the methods used by scholars to decide which Hadiths are calid and which are not..which you rejected...therefore the burden is on you to show me how to decide which ones are accurate and which ones are not
MoX531 2 years ago
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MoX531 2 years ago
MoX- You refer to men you call 'scholars" and "the scholarly view". I simply call them what they are- deceived muslim academic propagandists. The true scholars are not automatically rejecting any ancient testimonies that declare Muhammad was a violent and contemptible savage. Tell me- how many murders, kidnappings, rapes, robberies, tortures, and assassinations is Muhammad really responsible for? None? How would you feel if those acts happened to your family members? Would you thank Mo for it?
jcmjelve 2 years ago
still waiting for you to cite your support...or to prove your case, still haven't done it friend.
Ishaq and Tabari are full of accounts on how great of a man Mohammed was. We got hundreds of scholarly (by scholarly I mean people who have studied these works intently and actually looked into what is real and what is not)
Simply stating "I read Ishaq and Tabari" doesn't prove anything...We read them too and they overwhelmingly support our argument not yours...I suggest your reread them.
MoX531 2 years ago
MoX- evidence of the false prophet Mohammad's evil character, where he approves of assassination of a critic, and lying about it later:
Bukhari:V4B52N270 "Allah's Messenger said, 'Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.' Maslama got up saying, 'Would you like me to kill him?' The Prophet proclaimed, 'Yes.' Maslama said, 'Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.' Muhammad said, 'You may do so.'"
jcmjelve 2 years ago
MoX- You said " You have no sources to back up your claims so you have to resort to ad hominem attacks". Yes, I've shown you my sources, and no, I haven't insulted you even once.
"You still have not provided ANY source that backs you up". Scroll up- doesn't your mouse work? You've had a month, have you found and read Ishaq and Tabari yet?
jcmjelve 2 years ago
Yes I have read them...they are my support! I'm still waiting for yours.
I suggest you reread Ishaq and Tabari again..since you clearly don't understand them.
MoX531 2 years ago
MoX- more evidence of false prophet Mohammad's barbarism and unmerciful nature:
Tabari VII:97 "The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, 'Kill any Jew who falls under your power.'"
jcmjelve 2 years ago
MoX- even more evidence the racist Mohammad approved of the mass-murder of children:
Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 BOYS and men."
jcmjelve 2 years ago
MoX- here's an account of Mo approving the torture and execution of a black slave:
Tabari VIII:122
Ishaq:515 "The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, 'Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah's chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him."
Would you want your son to have this same violent nature as the false prophet?
jcmjelve 2 years ago
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MoX531 2 years ago
MoX- You said " I have read Al-Zuhri, Al-Zahm the two earliest collections". Really? You have their collections, or a copy of their works? What ancient document are they contained in? I'm not aware of manuscriptts by them anywhere in existance. Don't try to con me. You obviously have NOT read the "Earliest" sources about Muhammad. If you did, his criminal actions would make you sick, and you could never believe he was honorable. You believe cherry-picked exaggerated positive accounts.
jcmjelve 2 years ago
actually if you read my posts I never claimed to have read them...I just pointed out they are the earliest ones.
MoX531 2 years ago
I also notice you still have not answered my question i asked earlier...there are many Hadiths that came (both before and after hadiths that show him as a bad guy) that show Muhammad in a positive light....on. What do YOU use to diffrentiate which ones are right which ones are wrong?
MoX531 2 years ago
great job bro!
i just saw the fitna video myself ... and was surprized how my religion could be that way . but then i just stepped back and thought about this
of all the hundreds of thousands of muslims i've met and associated with over my life time.. I cannot pick but a handful of people who would even moderately cross the line of tolerance.
Fitna was just a narrowed microscopic description of one speck of dirt on an otherwise clean window, and its a shame that's how we're protrayed..
sharkssonline 3 years ago 2
Do you want to know what else is sad?? That mulsim leaders Worldwide are not standing up to condem the acts of that "dirt speck" that you speak of. It's sad that they don't take massive, internal action to clearn up that "dirt speck". Is it possible that those like you are mostly quiet about what the "dirt speck" is doing because you are glad someone is helping rid the World of "unbelivers"? When I see that the mulsim world can live in peace with anybody else, then maybe I'll listen.
glmemory 3 years ago
"..because you are glad someone is helping rid the world of unbelievers"
the fact that i NEVER even came close to such thoughts simply proves to show how 'relative' an observation of text can be...and how it can be intentionally misinterpreted by people with one-sided views.
You are doing EXACTLY what you condemn son...think about it.
sharkssonline 3 years ago
If anybody want to know about ISLAM, they should read original translation of ISLAMIC books, not from opposition groups materials.
opposition's materials will always contain misleading guide.
crawleromar 3 years ago 3
If anybody want to know about ISLAM, they should read original translation of ISLAMIC books, not from opposition groups materials.
crawleromar 3 years ago
.I wish that human realize that no religion teach us to do violent.N pls do not misuse the freedom of speech.the movie is a sad thing.I hope any religion just b together despite the different beliefs.
awauniq 3 years ago
is corrupting the peace.I wish that human realize that no religion teach us to do violent.N pls do not misuse the freedom of speech.the movie is a sad thing.I hope any religion just b together despite the different beliefs.
awauniq 3 years ago
Quoting the Bible doesn't help your case either. That only proves that the Quranic ViolentVerses are not without precedent. There ARE MORE of them in the Qur'an however & they're much more one-dimensional and repetitive.
BesACB 3 years ago
All ur "refutations" are so weak & they don't really add up to much. The context ur giving for the ViolentVerses proves Wilders' point: they're not about spiritual struggle, they're about tribes, villages, individuals etc. not running after the so-called prophet, in the language of the Mohammadan camp followers this constituted treachery. The first caliph waged military campaigns against people who thought they had finally got rid of the tyrannical prophet, but no...his 'spiritual' successor!
BesACB 3 years ago
I support you although I am not Muslim. Please keep promoting peace.
kennyk2007 3 years ago 9