Hey thanks for posting you views on the topic. Thanks for chiming in and contributing. I'm not sure if it was a purification ceremony. But excellent hypothesis. Thanks!
.. wine in the first place) and the miracle was that the jars were empty to begin with. Being the good Jews that they were, Jesus' disciples would have known the the purification ritual works and would not have been impressed by this act unless the jars had been completely empty from the start and they knew it. Therefore I believe your point doesn't draw a good argument, in other words, your argument doesn't disprove Jesus' miracle. Nor do my words prove it, it's still a matter of faith for me.
How do your first two readings of BERAKHOT and BABA MESIA relate to the reading of the New Testament? First of all, we are not reading original texts but translations (perhaps translated many times over) and as copies of copies some meaning may be lost. So if all of Jesus' disciples were Jewish they would also know how the right of purification works, and wouldn't have believed this to be a miracle. Perhaps they were getting ready for the Jewish right of purification (which needs VERY STRONG..
it was common custom to add water to wine, so why would anyone have even told such a story? Jesus turned water into wine and did numerous other miracles including opening the eyes of the blind and raising the dead. He rose from the dead Himself, a sign He gave to show that He was a prophet (the sign that He was The Prophet like Moses.)
Hmm. It's hard to say because of all the translation and time issues. I always thought that the phrase meant something like this: Jesus was so influential with his presence and his words that when the people were too poor to afford wine and only had water to drink, it still seem as if they were rich and intoxicated with goodwill and spirit, etc. when they were in his presence.
Loved the observation... I used to do a party trick in college of turning water into wine by doing just that... :) It works even better when the wine you are adding water to has evaporated a little and the color condenses.
Someone told me that Romans called taking a leak, "turning water into wine", but I'm wondering if they got it backwards, and they called it "turning wine into water".
I don't mean to disappoint, but I'm still very new to the Mishnaic literature. I do see, though, that there is a great deal in the Mishnah that seems to deal with the same objects, ideas or themes found in the "New Testament".
Joseph Atwill would probably say that this is Titus, before his military campaign began ("my hour has not yet come"), so I wonder if there's something about this in Josephus. I'll look and see.
Hmmm.... Well, the passages from the Mishnah do help explain the mixing of water and wine that Justin Martyr (First Apology, Chap LXV & LXVII ) spoke about and let's remember he was from Samaria (see Nablus). But this story reminds me of the Baal Shem Tov not wishing to "reveal himself" as a miracle working Tzadik, before his appointed time.
I will leave the indept comment to Uzi. Since John is the latest of the Gospel texts it could be a misinterpetation of a Baruchot (Blessings), which is where you are reading from the Mishnah/Talmud. The Dan Brown crowd would probably think it was from a early "Q" writing about his (Yeshua) wedding. But, like I said, I will leave the detail comment to Uzi. LOL!
I think the key is that the vessels were empty, then filled with water, then the miracle.
JesusIsAlive4U 8 months ago
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MrBobbierivera 1 year ago
Correction on my first post: rite and not right. I apologize, English is not my first language :-O
losloboslocos 3 years ago
Hey thanks for posting you views on the topic. Thanks for chiming in and contributing. I'm not sure if it was a purification ceremony. But excellent hypothesis. Thanks!
wayman29 3 years ago
.. wine in the first place) and the miracle was that the jars were empty to begin with. Being the good Jews that they were, Jesus' disciples would have known the the purification ritual works and would not have been impressed by this act unless the jars had been completely empty from the start and they knew it. Therefore I believe your point doesn't draw a good argument, in other words, your argument doesn't disprove Jesus' miracle. Nor do my words prove it, it's still a matter of faith for me.
losloboslocos 3 years ago
How do your first two readings of BERAKHOT and BABA MESIA relate to the reading of the New Testament? First of all, we are not reading original texts but translations (perhaps translated many times over) and as copies of copies some meaning may be lost. So if all of Jesus' disciples were Jewish they would also know how the right of purification works, and wouldn't have believed this to be a miracle. Perhaps they were getting ready for the Jewish right of purification (which needs VERY STRONG..
losloboslocos 3 years ago
ohh shut up u crazy jesus bummer!
tehshlong 3 years ago
Your depriving a village somewhere of an idiot.
wayman29 3 years ago
it was common custom to add water to wine, so why would anyone have even told such a story? Jesus turned water into wine and did numerous other miracles including opening the eyes of the blind and raising the dead. He rose from the dead Himself, a sign He gave to show that He was a prophet (the sign that He was The Prophet like Moses.)
SaudaraLink 3 years ago
For a 'holy man' like Y'shua to make the wine drinkable is quite an honor to those present.
StephenWebb1980 4 years ago
Hmm. It's hard to say because of all the translation and time issues. I always thought that the phrase meant something like this: Jesus was so influential with his presence and his words that when the people were too poor to afford wine and only had water to drink, it still seem as if they were rich and intoxicated with goodwill and spirit, etc. when they were in his presence.
Barklord 4 years ago
Loved the observation... I used to do a party trick in college of turning water into wine by doing just that... :) It works even better when the wine you are adding water to has evaporated a little and the color condenses.
RosieDesire 4 years ago
Someone told me that Romans called taking a leak, "turning water into wine", but I'm wondering if they got it backwards, and they called it "turning wine into water".
uziyahuidf 4 years ago
Maybe "wine" refers to the color of urine when you're dehydrated, as a Roman soldier might become in Samaria on a hot day.
uziyahuidf 4 years ago
I don't mean to disappoint, but I'm still very new to the Mishnaic literature. I do see, though, that there is a great deal in the Mishnah that seems to deal with the same objects, ideas or themes found in the "New Testament".
Joseph Atwill would probably say that this is Titus, before his military campaign began ("my hour has not yet come"), so I wonder if there's something about this in Josephus. I'll look and see.
uziyahuidf 4 years ago
I favorited it, so maybe one of my subscribers can provide some helpful illumination on these ideas.
uziyahuidf 4 years ago
water into wine
water in wine
knowing all the other mistranslations probably could have easily hapened
YoungAtheist 4 years ago
Hmmm.... Well, the passages from the Mishnah do help explain the mixing of water and wine that Justin Martyr (First Apology, Chap LXV & LXVII ) spoke about and let's remember he was from Samaria (see Nablus). But this story reminds me of the Baal Shem Tov not wishing to "reveal himself" as a miracle working Tzadik, before his appointed time.
smadewell 4 years ago
I will leave the indept comment to Uzi. Since John is the latest of the Gospel texts it could be a misinterpetation of a Baruchot (Blessings), which is where you are reading from the Mishnah/Talmud. The Dan Brown crowd would probably think it was from a early "Q" writing about his (Yeshua) wedding. But, like I said, I will leave the detail comment to Uzi. LOL!
Kittenkattan 4 years ago
Why would it be worthy of note if Jesus simply added water? There would have been no story. It would have simply been commonplace.
Still, I give 5 stars for the interesting observation!
fuddyfoo 4 years ago