Massachusetts Socialist Conference April 15 2007

[cordovarancho]

Nice points by Bryan Koulouris. "Progressive Democrat" is an oxymoron.

[SirKnightErrant]

What a gaggle of fools.

[Friendoffreedom]

Who are these foolsl, and whose money are they planning to spend? Europe has been fooling around with this for well over half a century-notice how well it's working now? Greece.....France.....England.­....on and on...running out of OTHER PEOPLE'S money to spend.

[lostintheapplasauce]

Respond to this video... i dont know this answer to this, but which country owes more money per person, the US or (pick an EU country)?

[Friendoffreedom]

Read "The Road to Serfdom" by Friedrich Hayek, and get back to us.

[AmandyPants]

This guy is cool. The rest of em are bitches though. Bryan isn't a phony ass face like all the Seattle bitches.

[SirKnightErrant]

Socialism simply does not work.

I am sure for some people It's a pleasant fantasy - but it fails every time. Always will.

Socialism is for losers and disgruntled intellectuals who fail at every practical endeavor until they wrangle tenure.

[SirKnightErrant]

I am sure you think you have noble motives.

However you are a fool. Beyond the massive list of failed socialist states - it goes so far against human nature - it is bound to fail.

The socialist party consists of idealistic losers, evil people and idiots.

[WhatCrass]

@SirKnightErrant

And capitalism is just doing great right now. Oh wait...

[lostintheapplasauce]

@SirKnightErrant "as if there was only one human nature" - Carl Sagan

[SirKnightErrant]

@lostintheapplasauce Of course people have more than one perspective. Most normal people strive to do better for themselves and their families. This ambition and striving is the source of most progress.

Socialism seeks to neuter the entrepreneurial spirit and confiscate the assets of those who do the most and earn the most.

No thanks. I’ll never let socialists keep me down.

[lostintheapplasauce]

@SirKnightErrant the people rioting and looting in london are a perfect example of capitalists. they do whatever they want as long as they can get away with it.  meanwhile society suffers.

[SirKnightErrant]

@lostintheapplasauce

Perhaps they feel some social injustice or that moving to the UK did not meet their expectations.

How would Mao deal with this issue - kill all of them. Perhaps Stalin would be more lenient and send them to slave labor camps.

This is how socialist countries end up - killing their own people because only a small fraction of ideologs really believe in socialism and everyone else is perceived to be a "counter revolutionary"

[jbeyers84]

Wow a Fat kid Who's a Socialists? Now Way!!! Of course another fat lazy slob that capitalism doesn't work out for SHOCKER!!!

[Sam26100]

LOL thumbs up Jbeyers

Socialists are tyrants at heart

"Social" in his speech means "taking from those who earned more, and giving to those who earned less"

[Antiks72]

@Sam26100 Capitalists are tyrants at heart. Look at the working conditions in China and other places.

"Capitalism" means taking from those who don't have, and transferring to those who do.

[Sam26100]

@ antiks72

"capitalism means taking from those who don't have and transfering to those who do"

Really? is that the real definition? or is it the one you have romanticized for yourself?

the kind of system you are describing has existed for thousands of years. Kings in feaudal times always robbed the peasants, so did the Counts, Dukes etc. It was never called Capitalism

Capitalism means: everybody has the right to their property

America isn't capitalist

taxation = robbery

[Antiks72]

Yeah, sure -- the rich have a right to everything, while everyone else has the right to sell themselves to them as a wage slave. This is what we're seeing now; Marx was right and is being proven over and over again. Wages are falling, and capital has shipped our most lucrative jobs overseas, leaving us with a lower wage "service economy".

[Sam26100]

Marx was a guy who never worked a day in his life

He also got his maid pregnant and then fired her.

How is he being proven by our economy failing when our economy is hyper-regulated, and our money is controlled by a federal monopoly with a legal right to counterfeit it?

None of this fits the textbook definition of capitalism. Capitalism implies a free market, which we do not have

[Antiks72]

@Sam26100 "Capitalism implies a free market, which we do not have"

I would define it as crony capitalism. Socialism for the rich when their bets fail, and everyone else is on their own after they collapse the economy via risky banking practices.

Free market economic theory -- the Chicago Milton Freedman School -- has been in the drivers seat for the last thirty years. Return to 19th century capitalism without regulations? No thanks.

[Sam26100]

Milton Friedman School in the driver's seat?

Ever heard of John Maynard Keynes?

"We're all Keynesians now" - Richard Nixon

The Federal Reserve's mere existance mocks the idea of a free market

How is it a "free market" when the nation's preferred currency has been forcefully taken from them, and prohibited under penalty of jail?

I.E. you have to use the Fed's funny money, but if you choose to use gold you go to jail, because that might make you less dependant on them

[Antiks72]

@Sam26100 Keynes is back in style.  Your arguing for a gold standard? That's Mises.

[Sam26100]

I know the difference between Mises and Keynes, thanks though

Keynes is back in style? sure.

That contradicts what you said in your last post though: "The Chicago Milton Friedman School has been in the driver's seat for the last thirty years"

No it hasn't, im glad we agree on that at least.

Friedman by the way was a sellout. He talked a lot about freedom, but he didn't oppose the federal reserve, he just nagged at it.

Partial freedom =/= actual freedom

[Antiks72]

@Sam26100 Ah, the bailouts. I see what you're getting at. Up until the Great Recession, Friedman was in the driver's seat. Also, Keynes was followed to a point. Our government didn't produce any work programs or job programs with the bailout, they just gave tax payer dollars to the rich (banks). The whole thing stinks of corruption too.

Capitalism =/= freedom. The problem with unregulated capitalism is that the rich end up having more rights than everyone else.

[Sam26100]

Buy a dictionary please

Government using it's power to help their rich banker friends has a name, but it is NOT capitalism

The proper word for what you are describing is mercantilism, or also sometimes referred to as corporatism

"The problem with unregulated capitalism is that the rich end up having more rights than everyone else"

how can you make this statement, what are you basing it on? unregulated capitalism has never existed. The bailouts are an example of government control

[Antiks72]

@Sam26100 It's all different shades of capitalism. You remind me of anarchist syndicalists saying they're the only true anarchists.

I think you've been reading too much Lew Rockwell.

[Sam26100]

I haven't read any Lew Rockwell, and Im not some mindless drone who believes everything he reads either thank you very much

There are no "shades of capitalism" any more than there are shades of property rights

in a market where the preferred currency has been forbidden you cannot say it is a free market, or that it's problems are a result of freedom

In a country where 60% of healthcare is provided by the government you cannot say that the rising costs are a result of free trade

[Antiks72]

@Sam26100 Rising costs are the result of a for-profit health care system.

[Sam26100]

give me one ACTUAL example of "the rich having more rights than everyone else" as a result of no government regulation over the economy.

[Antiks72]

@Sam26100 Ever heard of a monopoly? The rich can influence public opinion (free speech) easier by buying media spots. They can buy media companies. They can put smaller competitors out of business, securing their stranglehold on society. They can buy off judges and politicians. They can afford healthcare and lawyers. Just think what they could do without government on their backs? That's what you want. Crazy.

[Sam26100]

Again, give me one ACTUAL example. everything you are telling me is vague, mostly your own fantasies

The most brutal monopolies are state enforced, even Standard Oil was not a true monopoly, and they were as successful as they were because they improved the quality of their product and lowered it's price. That can hardly be a cause for

complaint from the general public.

basically what Im saying is: violence doesn't work. since socialism and "mixed systems" are based on it, they fail

[Antiks72]

@Sam26100 Your definition of capitalism is so narrow that you won't accept what a monopoly is. Microsoft is arguably a monopoly, or at least was. I don't accept your definition of what capitalism is (free market). The very fact of the matter is regulations have been relaxed greatly these last 30 years, and we've seen the consequences of that now.

[Sam26100]

definitions are supposed to be precise

Whether you call it narrow or not, doesn't change the fact that the definition Im using is what capitalism meant the way the word originally was created.

Rising costs are a result of profit, or loss competition?

prove it

[Antiks72]

@Sam26100 If company A manufactures a wigit for $1.00, including parts and labor and sells it for cost, will it be cheaper than company B's wigit, which also manufactures that same wigit for $1.00 but has to sell it for a profit?

[Sam26100]

the company which tries to make a profit will sell for more, but a company that doesn't try to make any profit and sells for cost only will be unable to sustain itself

[Antiks72]

@Sam26100 That's bullshit. LOL!

[Sam26100]

How so? if it doesn't make money, how will it stay afloat?

eventually equipment breaks, it needs money to be replaced right? how about all other expenses? labor and parts are only two parts of the cost, but the cost over longer periods of time can come from the most unpredictable of places

You have never ran a company, I have family members who have That is the difference, you have no idea how hard it is

[Sam26100]

also, if the company never sells anything above it's current costs, that means the employees will never get raises. That's fine with you too huh?

[elieakaMrextreme]

@Sam26100 Its good to see some one with such integrity

[StoneColdSteve98]

Wow an ass on youtube who insults someone instead of rebutting the political views. SHOCKER!!! Now Way!!!

[cocainecafe]

Isn't it weird that these socialists are having this conference on TAX DAY (April 15th)? Socialists love taxes...as long as they aren't the ones paying them. Google a list of tax resisters and see how many of them are socialists.

[Fernick]

Bull, I am a socialist aand I have no problem paying taxes as long as they fund social programs and not things like the War in Iraq and the 700 billion dollar bailout of wall street. Please stop generalizing...

[japanz1984]

tell me more about being a socialist?

[Laddre]

i am glad to pay taxes but not so the goverment can give them to big companies. give them to someon that need them

[Zerofire18]

Did the colored guy say "comrad"? My God in heaven!!!!

[Laddre]

it means college friend or ally

[KillWoundedEatDead]

did i say he has 50 lobbyists on his campaign?

F-I-F-T-Y!! HAHAHAHAHA hes an even bigger puppet then bush i cant belive you said that. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha­hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha­ahahaha

[KillWoundedEatDead]

what do you think public education is? is that guaranteed in capitalism? is a minimum wage guaranteed in capitalism? no it isnt

[shadowsofnineveh]

Public education should be totally controlled by the states not the federal government. The federal government should have nothing to do with public education. The federal government does not have any power in the constitution to control public education. when the federal government controls it then it becomes socialism.

[KillWoundedEatDead]

"And hitler was of the National socialist party"

do you think hitler was a socialist? good lord, where the hell did you get your education? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha­hahah jeez. "If people were responsible and took care of themeselves, we wouldn't have this debt problem" that is the goal of credit card companies. to make everyone slaves to credit card debt.

[shadowsofnineveh]

People are not being responsible. I have never owned...nor will ever own a credit card. A credit card is a doorway to irresponsibility. Blame the people who get the credit cards for fucking up their own lives. My ex wife is german and her grandmother lived through hitlers reign. They still have dozens of Nazi pamphlets and books from that era. The national socialist party held the same types of ideals that the present leftist democrat party holds. Hitler despised capitalism and free market.

[KillWoundedEatDead]

you stupid son of a bitch. hitler sent the socialist into DEATH CAMPS right along with the jews. he didnt have the same ideals as leftist in america. you are reading propaganda that is used to gain support of the working class. germany became fascist because powerful industrial firms bent the government to their will. sorta like what goes on in America today. and it happend because the free market allowed the industral firms to get as powerful as possible and then destroy their opposition.

[shadowsofnineveh]

We have been a country of powerful companies since our founding...So companies have not destroyed our country in any way. My comparison to Hitler to the ledtists in America, Is his Propoganda he presentedto the germans such as universal healthcare, government socialism etc. so the germans would accept him. Same thing that the leftists are trying to do. Once the leftists come into power, they will restrict free speech, restrict guns for defense and slowly create an enviroment of total control

[KillWoundedEatDead]

okay so you have no idea what fascism is. and it is okay for our country to be controlled by businesses and not the people. you think the fascists wont eventually take away your rights? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH oh my your quite stupid.

[shadowsofnineveh]

No one controls our country. The businesses have strong lobbyists in washington, But MCcain promised to veto any bill that has any earmarks or pork from any special interest group or business lobbyist. Basically he is saying that any bill that comes to his desk better be for one thing and one thing only. If there is one earmark he will veto it. Obama or clinton have never said those things, So Obama and clinton are both in the pockets of businesses.

[KillWoundedEatDead]

yeah fucking riiiight doesnt mcbush have 50 lobbyists on his campaign?

"Obama or clinton have never said those things, So Obama and clinton are both in the pockets of businesses."

yea obama never said anything about being against special interests hahahahahahhah have you ever listened to anything he has ever said? wow pull your fucking head out of your ass for a minute HAHAHAHAHAHA oh that was a good one.

[japanz1984]

tell me more about fascism?

[Laddre]

ok here i go. what america is becoming!

[KillWoundedEatDead]

why are 6 out of 10 Americans in credit card debt? becuse they want you to spend the rest of your life trying to pay your way out of it and give all of your money to them in the form of interest. it is sickening.

[shadowsofnineveh]

Its called lack of responsibility and stupid people who don't think. If people were responsible and took care of themeselves, we wouldn't have this debt problem.

[KillWoundedEatDead]

you take advantage of your rights that were fought for by socialists and thinking they are somehow guaranteed in capitalism you ignorant ass. you want to take but not give anything back in return. go live in a pure capitalist country with no social programs where you were born poor and see how easy it is to advance in life.

[shadowsofnineveh]

Fought for by socialists??????? who were socialists? Our founders despised that kind of thinking. If you read the federalist papers and all our founders writings you will see that they were complete capitalists who believed in personal freedoms, personal responsibility and very limited power to the federal government. Im thinking you have no idea what socialism even means. But yor only 20 and still a punk kid....so I understand.

[KillWoundedEatDead]

minumim wage = socialist. in the 1800 you would work like a slave for shit thats pure capitalism. do you think AMerica is a democracy? do you think the people have any power in this country? you are an idiot. big business = lots of capital capital = money money = power which = political power. thats where fascism comes from. what is keeping the governemnt from being bent to the will of big business and industrial firms? france has the number 1 heathcare in the world and its socialist.

[shadowsofnineveh]

No america is not a democracy... America is a constitutional republic. There is no country on earth that is a real democracy, because in a real democracy..the mob rules...In a real democracy, the government could not pass any law or do anything without a vote of the people...it would be pure anarchy.

[coltsfancolts]

wow this sounds like the democratic party thank god i'm republican.

[robotactionstar]

Your hopes to make this a Socialist country don't happen because America is a center right country. You act like it bad organization that keep your party plans from occuring, its not. The overwhelming majority of Americans laugh at your ideals. By the way, what the hell is a "Necessary social program"? Government programs generally artificially create new and larger problems then those they are created to solve. Cut taxes and reduce regulation. Period.

[spellbiff]

I totally agree. The principles that this country was founded on, does not allow socialism. We are a REPUBLIC ..NOT. a Democracy, per, say. They need to realize that. They need to let the states decide things as designed! If they hate our capitalism so much, then why dont they move to Europe. Their countries cannot survive without our "capitalist" country supporting them, and protecting them. Robot ...me and you are blood brothers!!!!

[scouselid1]

Don't believe everything you read in your ultra right wing press. It's the financial institutions of your country that have brought it to its knees and now th UK is paying big time too - The reason GREED. True democratic countries like Geramny and France didnt fall into the credit trap and are generally escaping the recession.

[WhatCrass]

So in your "republic" do not the workers create all the wealth? 

If they do, why shouldn't we be the ones that control the means of production instead of the CEOs who lavish themselves like kings on our dime?

[Sam26100]

Did you build the place you're working at?

The CEO invested his money, to take it from him would be a violation of his right to property, which is the same as his right to his life.

Common workers controling the means of production has been tried before, and the concequence was mass starvation.

Our current problems in the U.S. are a product of business regulation by the federal government for the purpose of giving the poor a "chance" at a home. It was all the rage until the bubble popped

[Antiks72]

@Sam26100 Argentina did that and production went up, and prices were cheaper.

Our current problems in the U.S. are a result of business DEREGULATION in the eighties and especially the nineties. They rolled back FDR banking regulations that were designed to prevent meltdowns like this from happening.

[Antiks72]

@Sam26100 Who built the place? Workers. CEO's aren't all company owners. Those are shareholders you're talking about.

[robotactionstar]

Good, I hope your stupid plans never happen in my country.

Yeah, yeah!!! Equal misery for all!

[NSMadeMan]

You socialists are so ignorant it's ridiculous. You use selective reasoning and yyou only see what you want to see....

Oh yeah, and you're FUCKIN' FAGGOTS too!

[wowdavidp1]

Dont you know socialist are controlled by the elites that you claim to be fighting.

Ford Foundation, George Soros, Carnegie Endowment, the Nation Magazine. All these left leaning institutions are funded by the corporations that you hate so much. What you want is capitalism, not fascism/mercantalism you see today.

[debswasdope]

I would be interested in Soc. Alternative's (Trotskyist right?) position on the Working Families Party? That Party has been on the ballot in New York state for years and they use fusion voting to their advantage. They do have significant influence in New York though they are a smaller Party. They can support the Dem. candidate (in most cases) or they can run their own candidate if the Democrats aren't willing to support them on some economic issues. They now have ballot access in many states.

[vcupiano]

I can't understand how all of you working middle class can support socialism. Don't you realize they want to steal money from you and give it to those who don't want to help themselves. They want to control

[solarpanel420]

what we need is freedom you communist fuck

[angeles890]

What do you define as freedom...no health insurance, The Patriot Act, secret prisons, a preemptive war on "terror", expensive college tuition...need i go on

[solarpanel420]

im against the patriot act. It was unconstitutional and destorys freedom. No health insurance? America has the best health care in the world. The only reason why some people dont have insurance is because of SOCIALIST government coercion with big corp. insurance companies, which in turn can jack up prices. The reason why these things are so expensive is because about half of the money you make is stolen by the GOVERNMENT. That is not freedom; it is socialism.

[shadowsofnineveh]

Freedom is the government staying the fuck out of my life and leaving the money I work hard for alone. Having government nanny me through college and health care is not freedom. Freedom is taking care of yourself and not having someone else regulate you. You socialist leftists are wacked.

[KillWoundedEatDead]

you are ignorant as fuck. would you like to work for 2 dollars an hour with no benefits? thats why would happen if it wernt for the socialists. dumbass

[shadowsofnineveh]

You stupid dumbass socialist leftist. Its called free market...If i don't like working at a job that pays 2 dollars an hour plus tips with no benefits, Then I go find a job that pays more with benefits. Government regulations only causes prices to go up and Employers less likely to create more jobs. Socialism destroys and bankrupts...it doesnt create. I love free market america. I started at a pizza job making $4.00 an hour. Did i complain to mommy government? no, I looked for a better job.

[shadowsofnineveh]

Also second..you are a 20 year old naive idiot who has no idea the realities of the real world. When I was 20, I was also a naive idiot leftist. It wasn't until I got out of mommy and daddy's house and buy my own house and had kids did I realize that the less government and less social programs, the better.

[KillWoundedEatDead]

i do live on my own you dumb fuck. you are a naive idiot and you dont know what a socialist is. just because you were a moron when you were young doesnt mean everyone is. what happens when the entire world is a giant kmart and you have to work there or die but you can only make 2 dollars and hour because there are no such thing as socialists to fight for workers rights? ah yes it would be great if the government wouldnt help to pay for college and the rich could stay rich and the poor poor.

[shadowsofnineveh]

Can you tell me any job in the united states that pays $2.00 and hour other than some restaraunts because you make tips also? I have a masters degree in ancient history and archeaology and have been to 34 countries. I definetely know what socialism is because I have seen the damages it does to populations in many of the countries ive been in. Stealing resources and earned money from people to redistribute that stolen money to other people by the government is socialism.

[KillWoundedEatDead]

Can you tell me any job in the united states that pays $2.00 and hour other than some restaraunts because you make tips also?

NONE! because socialists fight for workers rights. when companies are forced by the government to pay you at least a minimum wage or give you benefits thats because of socialists. so say thank you. "I definetely know what socialism is because I have seen the damages it does to populations in many of the countries ive been in." ya ever been to EUROPE apparently not.

[shadowsofnineveh]

there are no socialists in the USA except for that nut Bernie sanders and Barack hussein Obama. Government has not helped in any way pay rates in business. Businesses know that if they pay shitty, the employees will go somewhere else to work. It's called free market, not socialism. When you get older, you'll understand. Ive been to every country in Europe and lived in france and germany for 3 years. Europe has nice history and castles and much archeological work, but other than that is is a dump

[KillWoundedEatDead]

you dont complain when your government takes your tax money to give it to private companies in contracts to rebuild iraq.you fascists only complain when it is used to help people so they can help themselves. enjoy your stay in hell you selfish ignorant fuck.

[shadowsofnineveh]

I complain about any taxes in the form of income tax. Im fine with sales tax and some property taxes for cities and state governments. Federal government used to get there taxes from tarrifs on imports and excess local taxes. The IRS and income tax are blatantly against our constitution and the 16th amendment is a fraud in my opinion.If i go to my neigbors and steal theyre money to give to my sick mom, I go to jail for theft. Government retains no rights above that of the citizens.

[KillWoundedEatDead]

Stealing resources and earned money from people to redistribute that stolen money to other people by the government is socialism. nope thats not what socialism is. capitalism is where rich elites force workers to slave away so that they can get richer. people are given a CHANCE to better themselves so they can get ahead thats what socialism is. in pure capitalism you can be born unprivileged and wouldnt have a chance to get anywhere in life.

[saintrambone]

Force with weapons is only way to open government to us. The regime in power is a technological warlord. We are being attacked in the USA just like those in their subjugated nations. Stop forced injections, stop closed door government. Protect your young. Attack the regime and their media. make money from their heartless fall. Mobile Audit Club has proof of true horrors in USA billion dollar banking regulatory fed sector

[shadowsofnineveh]

hey hitler....hey karl marx....name me 1 country where socialism is working out well?

[tesfoega]

hey retard, how about reading a book and give the Fox news a break. Hitler wasn't a socialist, and Karl Marx was a philosopher amongst other things, but no leader of a country. You fcking puppet. Capitalism is working great alright, for the rich, as well as the robot workers who spend their lives trying to be like the rich.

[shadowsofnineveh]

everything you just said tells me you are a socialist thief. Steal my money and give it to others. Are you a fucking leftist idiot. Karl marx was a socialist. If you think he was not, then you have not read any of his books. Have you even heard of marxist socialism. Capitalism was the basis of our founding fathers. Read the federalist papers you metrosexual faggot socialist thief. You never answered the question...What socialist country works?

[shadowsofnineveh]

I just can't stop saying what an idiot you are. You were definetly brainwashed by your communist college professor. I have read Karl Marx' books. And hitler was of the National socialist party you fucking Leftist thief.

[shadowsofnineveh]

No Karl Marx was not a leader of a country. But his dangerous Socialist ideas of theft and redistrubution to those who never worked for it has influenced many corrupt thieving leaders. Besides. France is tired of socialism so they elected a conservative. This country would never allow big government socialism theft to ever come into power.

[solarpanel420]

actually hitler was a nationalist socialist so yea, he was. Ever hear of the auto-bond, make work paid for by the taxes of the people. Thats a socialist. Why dont you open a book you fucking puppet. learn some history.

[boomac62]

sweeden?

[angeles890]

What do you define as well, such as a highly educated population, health coverage for all, and political activism on behalf of the governed. If thats your definition then you need only to look at France, GB, Canad and so on .However, if you mean a society in which you could be filthy rich while someone down the street could barely feed their kids, failing education system and people dying to lack of medical care. For that you only need to look outside your window.

[shadowsofnineveh]

sarkozy was elected in france because he promised to get rid of many socialist programs in france. The federal governments only responsibility under the constitution in the united states is to create for a national defense, a court system and levy tarrifs. Everything else should be left to the states. Tell me then why more people try to get into the united states than any other country. Or why so many people from canada or england come to the united states for needed medical care?

[chrisshwada]

france has the #1 healthcare in the world according to the WHO, and in case you didnt notice Sarkozy is one of the most unpopular presidents in french HISTORY.

[brennan1979]

Check out my youtube site. Irish CWI videos.