And as I’ve already pointed out, parents don’t always find out that the CI isn’t as effective as they had hoped until years have gone by, by which time their kids education (including language) has already had a substantial delay. You know what would stop their education from being delayed? Sign language.
Can you actually tell me ONE reason why a child raised with a combination of sign and speech would be disadvantaged?
A kid with severe-profound hearing loss who gets a CI usually goes up to moderate-severe level. With moderate-severe they usually go up to mild-moderate. They don't often give CIs to anyone with mild-modetate loss. It's like wearing earmuffs ALL THE TIME.
So WHAT, exactly, is your problem with having children brought up signing AS WELL as speaking? If they have an interpreter in the classroom, they won’t have to exhaust themselves all the time, and their education won’t be delayed.
Try wearing earmuffs for a day. They should muffle sound, but you’ll still be able to hear. It should simulate a mild-moderate hearing loss (depending on the grade of the earmuffs).
See how well you go. See how difficult it is to understand people when they look away from you, or when there’s background noise.
Now imagine doing that ALL THE TIME. The concentration required is massive, you miss out on heaps.
Just for context: the cochlea has around 16,000 delicate hair cells that are used to identify frequencies. The CI has at most 24 electrodes to perform this function.
Lord Ashley, a UK politician who lost his hearing and then got a cochlear described the speech sounds through the CI as like "a croaking dalek with laryngitis". He didn't regret getting it, but it isn't 'normal' hearing.
If that's all kids have to go by during their vital first years of development, they miss out.
I've also noticed that the deaf culture is slightly like a religion, forcing their views onto everybody else. Pretty much like christianity or muslims, sorry but that's how it seems to me.
I'm a profoundly deaf lad in britain, thankfully my mother chose for me to hear and speak. I actually don't understand the deaf culture because I've never been exposed to one, and I don't know why they really hate any deaf person wanting to speak instead of using sign language. I've never felt the need to learn it cos I DON'T know any other deaf person. I think they just be happy and respect the person's decision.
im taking an ASL class in highschool and "deaf culture" is no damn different than the other THOUSANDS of cultures in the world, they need to get over it and understand all this beautiful music your missing out on... i would cry for days if i couldnt hear music anymore... i have diabetes, and if they made a magical robot pancreas, id get it, even if that made me a f***ing "cyborg"...
I think the CI is amazing, I was just told recently that I have lot 50% of my hearing and am so scared of being completely deaf, this gives me hope for my future. Many family members on my fathers side is deaf, I wish that everyone could hear.
@PhotoshopXD The child has a Cochlear Implant. It allows the child to hear, not as naturally hearing people do, but with practice people with CIs can learn to respond to and understand sound without looking at someone.
Miracles? Papacox, you've penned miracles wrong! Miracles were never wrought by human hands, and whenever the disciples healed people, it was by the mere touch of their hand! No instruments involved, no medical knowledge involved. You are now saying doctors do miracles. Wrong, that is unscriptural. People are born AS IS for a REASON! You are saying that God slipped up when that's really impossible.
@kjallits Our son wasn't born AS IS. He got sick when he was 4 months old, and almost died. It was because of miracles and doctors that he is alive today. And we will give him any opportunity possible. Hearing aides and CIs are two completly different things, we tried hearing aides and they did absolutely nothing for him. Technology was also given to us for a REASON! Since our daughter was born with a heart problem, should we deny her a hear transplant because she was born "AS IS".?
@ssgtpapacox I don't want you to think this is what all of us that are "pro ASL" believe. I just disagree with the sentiment that it is our choice as parents to alter our children's bodies without their consent, unless it is a procedure necissary to save their life or drastically improve their quality of life.
@Catwalksymphony Call me old school, but until my child is 18, I am their legal gaurdian. So the fact is, I do have the right and choice to make decisions for my children, and esp at their ages now, I have not only the right, but the need to make important decisions for my kids. I made the decision for my son, it took a lot of debating, and some criticism, but I would not change it for the world.
@ssgtpapacox That's your decision. Personally I think the risks outweigh the benefits, and as such I would not make that decision for my kids if I needed to. Regardless, I feel like the child deserves a choice as to what happens to their own bodies. That's my belief on it. It's the same reason I will not pierce my baby's ears or circumsize my sons if I have any. It's their body, not mine. I am not the one that will live with the repercussions of the action.
You'd better be advocating for children to have a choice on whether or not they are circumcised as well then, since it is their bodies, that goes for body piercing yadda yadda. And such trivial matters as them receiving medical treatment if they are are incapacitated and cannot answer. You're forgetting that it is a parents duty to do everything they can for the well being of their child, and if that means surgery to give them a chance at hearing, theres no reason to say no.
@ssgtpapacox Also, the main issue most people are taking is the stance that children who get the CI are STILL deaf. When they take the CI off to shower or sleep or for whatever reason, these children are deaf. They deserve to be able to cultivate their natural language, which in the USA is ASL. So long as the parents are cultivating the childs natural language I see no issue other than my personal stance on making such a monumental decision without their consent.
there is no such thing as a "natural" language, that is just semantics. In the U.S.A. the native language is americanized english. And you are basically stating that you do not support parents choosing what they feel is best for their child unless they also meet your impositions...you are transparent, your biased agenda is quite plain to see.
'Natural' language isn't as ridiculous as it sounds. The natural language for humans is through speech, not any specific speech, but communication through sound. This is not a 'natural' way for Deaf people to communicate. I think the child in this video has done a fantastic job, and have no real problem with cochlear implants, but I DO believe that children with anything more than a mild hearing loss should be exposed to sign. A bilingual upbringing reduces the child's disadvantages.
you're referring to the naturally evolved apparatus for communication, not natural language. Due to their disability, the deaf are at a disadvantage using speech and its therefore easier to adopt an alternate means of communication, which in and of itself presents as many if not more problems than it purports to solve, its like moving to mexico and instead of learning the local dialect of spanish, instead learning one of the variant inca or mayan languages still rarely in use.
Imagine that you lived in a community where the people communicate through smell. They have technology that allows your sense of smell to be heightened, but it's still never going to be as good as everyone else's. You cope with smells much of the time, but when you're in a big group, everyone's smells seem to waft together and you can't really distinguish who's saying what.
Now imagine that there are people in that community who speak with words.
The people who talk using words are much easier for you to understand. They help explain things, and provide a social group where you can communicate without feeling like you're at a disadvantage. They also allow you to have an education where you're not forced to either miss out or ask for clarification all the time.
You still learn smell-speech. You have to try or most of society will be inaccessible to you. But you don't have to exhaust yourself with smells all the time.
not applicable, humanity never developed an advanced sense of smell and don't use pheromones or the accompanying receptors like in much of the animal kingdom. Not smelling would not bar you from communicating with other people. I see what you're trying to say, but you worded it badly and after a vague fashion, please make yourself clear in future comments :D
Of course it's not applicable. It's purely hypothetical. That's a completely ridiculous criticism. I'm just trying to draw a relative comparison. And it IS relative. No matter how good cochlear implants are, a deaf child with a CI will never be able to communicate easily in group situations, on the telephone or where there is background noise. They are always at a disadvantage.
If you couldn't understand that it was not literal, then I really think I'm wasting my time talking to you.
touchy and rude, thing is science will advance and eventually wipe out the relatively tiny issues you have with these implants and then the disability will be entirely reversable, why people like you are so bent on turning this into a point of contention is both disturbing and of course symptom of the self loathing and exclusivist society they try to create, to the detriment of deaf cause might I add. Furthermore, making crappy relative comments in a such fashion, wastes my time
and trying to explain anything to the obviously exclusivist people who demand that the deaf are a separate race and that alexander graham bell was some kind of nazi, are so beyond hope of civil discussion as to be lumped in with the bigots they claim everyone else but they are. It is a disability, by definition, end of discussion there is no room for naysaying on the matter, get over it and move on to cope or obliterate it, there is no excuse for your backwards wrongheaded ideal
You clearly haven't read anything I've said. If you actually READ my responses, I never said anything about CIs being evil. I'm just advocating that deaf kids be brought up bilingual, because CIs aren't as effective as they're made out to be. They're just a glorified hearing aid.
I work with deaf children. For some, the CI works wonders. For others, it doesn't do ANYTHING. The problem is, the parents don't necessarily get told the CI isn't effective, and the kid's education is...
If they learn to sign as well (and every study I've ever looked at agreed that kids who grow up bilingual have a better chance of educational success) that means that they have easier access to information while they adjust to the CI.
And your point about how the "science will advance" is completely meaningless. It might. But in the meantime it's not good enough.
by your standards, which are meaningless. I can produce "studies" and "statistics", plenty of which show that children who use sign language are primarily illiterate and learn poorly compared to their hearing counterparts. They also manage to soak up benefits funded by taxpayers like a sponge and contribute nothing back and require specialized services all their lives. Successful corrective surgery early in life contributes significantly to a child's success, not inane "culture"
MY standards are meaningless? I haven't quoted any statistics, so you can't accuse me of making any up. I can tell you that of the Deaf adults that I know (and I know plenty), the ones who were brought up bilingual (a combination of sign and speech, and yes, many have CIs, most have hearing aids) are the ones who function best in life. They are the ones who are able to go to university. Not the ones who only relied on tech, nor the ones who only signed.
And I haven't once mentioned Deaf culture. I choose to stay out of that debate. Don't put words in my mouth.
And NONE of the Deaf adults I know (including the ones who only sign) are illiterate, besides the ones who were unfortunate enough to be raised in the era where deaf people weren't educated.
Do you know ANY deaf people? What are YOU basing your completely unfounded accusations on?
Btw, I didn't come to this video to complain. I thought it was sweet. I thought the girl was doing really well. The only reason I posted was because YOUR comment seemed ridiculously unfounded and I thought I should put it right.
That being said, however well she does in this setting, this girl will probably find it difficult to understand speech when there's background noise or when there's more than one person around - i.e: most of the time.
Don't complain about me wasting your time. You CHOSE to read what I had to say and to respond to it. And your responses completely failed to address any of the points I brought up, but rather criticised a viewpoint that had nothing to do with what I had to say. So I can't help but feel that you have no rational argument against my stance.
I'm sorry I wasted my time trying to break through your brick wall of misconceptions.
Im sorry you were never taught useful life skills like how to properly discuss an issue with another person, and it was you whom first tossed prejudgment and misconception upon me, enjoy your censorsed society down under XD
Interesting from someone who gave me no actual points to back up their viewpoint except to call me backward, and is yet to give me ONE reason why deaf children should not sign. You've hinted at reasons for deaf children to learn to talk, but given me nothing whatsoever as to why they shouldn't sign.
Seriously, go back and read through what you've said. There is NOTHING there to validate your stance.
Don't pretend you have the argumentative or the moral high ground. You don't.
I don't have to pretend, you crassly barged in with your opinion, there are no "actual points" for me to disprove. Also, the whole point of learning speech is to communicate with society at large as opposed to an extremely tiny minority, so obvious I didn't feel it necessary to spell it out but it seems I had to for your benefit.
@plator99 And as you keep conveniently ignoring, I never said anything even hinting that deaf children shouldn't learn to speak. I'm advocating that they sign AS WELL.
It's not actually a complex concept to grasp.
And I did not barge in. My comments were perfectly civil until YOU became rude.
Regardless, I'm done trying to rationalise with you.
of course you try and act the martyr now, after being a tactless and frenchified mort. From the start it was you who were rude and anything but civil, I wash my hands of you go back to the abbo hoard since they will certainly accept your beastly behavior.
@ssgtpapacox (LOL sorry for the long reply) I also think that your personal decision does not have to be the same as mine. My personal issues with the CI have nothing to do with your decision making. You have a right to parent however you see fit. You made the choice you thought would best benefit your kid.
The biggest issue is I truly feel ALL deaf children should be exposed to ASL. All of them. Even ones with CI. So long as you are doing that I have absolutely NO beef with your decision.
What we each decide is necissary is up to us, and I would never fault a parent for choosing to give their child a CI... UNLESS they do not teach them ASL. If a person is deaf they are deaf. No amount of technology can change that. If something were to happen to the CI, the child would be at a HUGE disadvantage for not having another way to communicate.
@Catwalksymphony You said"If a person is deaf they are deaf. No amount of technology can change that." The CI has proven this statement wrong. This child can hear obviously. Deaf culture is fine I guess, but deaf culture suggests other people with various challenges not avail of the help out there. Show me a paraplegic who wouldn't do anything to walk again, as one example. Show me a cardiac patient who wouldn't avail of a pacemaker. I'd give my child any advantage I could of needed.
@futon Take the CI off of this girl, and she is deaf. She will always be physically deaf. The technology has not changed that, it has only made it so that she can hear with the help of the CI. If there were a way to restore her natural hearing I would say you have an argument there, but hearing with a CI is NOT like hearing naturally.
Secondly, the things you're comparing to deafness are not similar in any fashion. People live completely normal and fulfilling lives without hearing.
@kjallits I'm not saying God slipped up at all. I'm saying he puts people on earth to do certain things. Our daughter was born with a heart defect, AS IS. Our son was born hearing, then lost it, due to other illnesses. In both cases we chose surgery and technology because we had the opportunity and we felt it was the best thing to do for our kids.
I also want to point out, that God's son, Jesus was the one that bestowed miracles. Jesus (which is part of the Holy Trinity) restored hearing, vision, and speech to people. So miracles.....yes, they are miracles. And I never said God slipped up, Also, did God not put us on this earth to do His work? Who is to say God did not bestow knowledge unto our doctors? God grants gifts to us. I am not saying CI's are right or wrong, but I am saying if you don't
like them... don't tell others they are stupid for their choices. Esp. since ( I know personally) it is not an easy choice, but in the end, everyone just wants what they feel is best for their children.
If I happened to have a deaf child in the future I would not give him/her a CI, but that's my personal choice...
What I do NOT believe is a choice, but a RIGHT, is for EVERY deaf child to be bilingual. It is every defa childs right, CI or not, to know ASL. Though we live in a hearing world, if something happens in the future and this child cannot rely on her CI... what mode or method does she then have to recieve communication? These parents are PURPOSELY putting her at a disadvantage.
@ssgtpapacox I don't feel being deaf limits a child in any way. I do believe and know that having a CI can limit a person and be a hinderance. I would want them to make the decision on their own, it would not be my place to put them in harms way by means of surgery that I do not feel is necissary to live a normal and healthy life. I would allow it to be their decision to make later in life.
I agree with u Petitfutemievre years from now they could have all these different easier ways for deaf ppl to speak with more advantages ruling disdvantages! I think clementine is doing a wonderful job!
Oh, by the way. I'm stone deaf, and I played in the junior high school band. Hearing is not necessary. I played instruments perfectly! My family understands me. My friends understands me. Co-workers understand me. Anyone who doesn't, doesn't have the right attitude towards the deaf. The Bible states that God made the deaf, the blind, and the normal. We are born that way for a reason, and that reason is not just to be fixed! Stupid hearing people are blind to what we can do.
ShelandMac, she can't take her CI off to scuba dive or play sports. The magnet inside her head is permanent. THAT is what prevents people from doing what others can. She's stuck, forever. Stupid parents.
The amount of time taken away from academic studies for speech therapy is UNBELIEVABLE. I spent TWO HOURS PER DAY during school just for speech therapy, and I missed two classes EVERY DAY. I barely scraped by with the grades. Thankfully, I no longer speak. I actually feel free.
Uh, do your research! She CAN take off her speach processor (The outside part) to go swimming. She doesn't need to take it off for sports unless they involve a lot of water. My sister has a CI and she goes swimming, plays soccer and other sports. She loves her CI and couldn't imagine her life without it!
Some deafness is genetic. What if that kid has deaf children? How will that kid communicate with the children? Sign language is UNIVERSAL. Even stupid hearing people gestures. If they're so against ASL and prefers oralism, then why do they even gesture?
Too bad, really. Because she has CI, she will never ride an airplane, scuba dive, and will never participate in sports. This is exactly what CI doctors tell children.
@kjallits My son has bilatteral C.I.s and is able to play in the water, is starting wrestling in a few weeks, and has no problem communicating with anybody whether he has them on or not. I feel that having the CIs gives him MORE opportunities now and in the future. And if he so choses when he is older that he doesn't like them or doesn't want them, he can has the choice then to not wear them.
@kjallits He CAN Also ride in an airplane. It is no different than someone with metal in their arm or in their chest (like our daughter, who as ALSO has riden in an airplane, after open heart surgery, who has metal in her chest). Some of Jesus's greatest miracles was when he allowed the blind, the deaf and the mute to see, hear and speak. God created doctors and scientists for a reason as well.
@kjallits Are you using the term "Stupid hearing people" in a way to refer to ALL hearing people as stupid, or only pointing out the hearing people that are stupid to things that are different from them? Because I am hearing and I agree with you.
I hate to disagree with youI think I should point out that sign language is not universal. You know ASL, I know Auslan. Different countries have different sign languages. Gesture is universal but sign language is not.
I feel sorry for this kid. Because this kid is solely oral, she will NEVER get along with children who use ASL, children who are actually deaf just like her. Once she goes out into the world, she'll find out her speech is horrible and is not understood by 90% of all hearing people out there.
I'm ex-oral, it happened to me and to ALL ex and current oralers that I know of. That child is being disadvantaged on purpose!
why take the GREATEST RISK ????? wait till baby's little older use ear aids till the child's 13 or 15 to make the decision or you will have regrets because you might destroyed their body or even death its not the worth the risk we have couple freinds who died from it The CI's companys wont announce any of this news they just want money money money money
@H0EYHEMP Because sometimes you cannot wait to make the decision. Our son only had a small window of time before his cochleas were hardened too much to the point they would not have been able to do the surgery. Its not an easy decison for anyone who has to make it.
once deaf, always deaf... a CI doesnt gaurentee the ability to hear forever, you cant just become a hearing person. still deaf at the end of the day. ASL all the way, AUDISM should be a crime...
just be lucky u have both asl and ci i grow up and didnt have either ci or know how to sign tell i was about 15 and that was very frustreating not being able to say whats on your mind i would have givin anything to have ci or sign when i was growing up.
I am a mother of a 6 year old deaf child. She recieved a CI at age 2. She too has fluent oral language skills and has beautiful grammar and syntactic structure. Many of you act like we are ASL haters, we are DEFINITELY not, we just want to provide out children with the best chance for sucess we can. I worked at my daughters oral school in Phoenix for 3 years, it was amazing, the children spoke beautifully. Other Deaf children speak beautifully using their hands, just find joy in childs success.
@starwars19271 I just don't see why ASL on it's own DOESN'T provide a child with the best chance they can. I don't see why the language we speak affects our ability to succeed in any way....
@Catwalksymphony it affects a person to succeed the same way that hispanic who can't speak english... that hispanic will spend his life picking fruit or making beds or only providing services to those who only speak spanish which is a significant minority of people. If you can't understand this very basic concept then you are just screwed. i realize deaf people have been raised with deaf pride but it's nothing you should be proud of... it just is.
@anime1973 Uh wow, racist much? You do realize there are majority Spanish speaking countries right? Horrible analogy. Deaf people can be deaf and still communicate with hearing people. They can usually speak and read lips, or at the very least they do know English. Being able to hear it doesn't change their ability to communicate with English speaking people at all. Deaf people of any culture always learn the language of their culture as well.
Somehow, I can't understand why people have such a problem with something that gives deaf children BACK their hearing.... give them back the ability to attend a "mainstream" school.... fully communicate with their peers who don't know sign language.... And the thing with letting the child choose sounds, I don't know, odd to me. How is a child under 5 going to know what is best for them?
But then, I admit I've never been deaf, so... It could be I just don't understand.
but if they never had that hearing in the first place, how can you be giving it back? Also, a lot of parents who make the choice of a ci, i feel, do it without all the information that needs to be provided. I have a few friends who have had or have it and most of them dont use it anymore because it did NOT work for them in the long run. A temporary fix is still just a temporary fix!
this happens one out of a million times. Do you know how many deaf children are SUFFERING because the parents refuse to accept that their child is deaf. The numbers make me SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would love to know where you get the statistic of millions. I have been in this field for many years and there are many children and adults who are benefitting from a CI. It is more successful in certain people such as young preligually deafened chilren and post lingually deafened adults. But this outcome is more common than some may think. The CI is not for everyone but we have to respect each person's or family's right to choose what is best for them at the time
This is true, more than 88% of parents are not able to communicate with their child fluently enough to carry on normal parent-child relationships because the parents have been told that ASL would hinder the child's development but it really hinders family relationships.
Do those of you who are so pro-ASL realize what a natural conversation this child is having? Do you realize she is not even looking up when she is spoken to because she doesn't need to read lips? That her speech, grammar, and voice quality are typical for a (hearing) child her age? I am guessing not, since your comments against the CI or against children getting the CI, or insisting on ASL seem quite foolish juxtaposed with this video. The child speaks for herself.
This is a video of a girl who is a "success" story, which is quite rare; no one is going to post a "failed" story video on here. Point is, what's wrong with bilingualism? Cochlear Implants don't work for everyone and sometimes they work for a while and then the body rejects it and it dosen't work anymore. ASL should be a part of every person who has a "hearing loss's" life to give them options and even a back up if the CI fails, which is more often than not.
B)ASL without speech isn't fully bilingual; it's monolingual. There is a reason that languages are called "tongues".
C) My kids go to Tucker-Maxon. While they don't use ASL on-campus, TMOS has not discouraged us from teaching ASL to our children. The kids, however, are not so great in the fine-motor area, and they haven't wanted to learn ASL.
D) CIs don't have the failure rate you imply, and anyone can lose their hearing or voice.
Sign Language should be supplemented by speech, not speech supplemented by Sign Language. Speech is not a language in itself, but a modality. Sign Language is a language, therefore ASL should be used first, and speech afterwards. Take it from someone who has lived through it all.
None of us say she shouldn't be allowed the option to hear, but what you are seeing in this video is only a small success story out of the many failures that go through oral education. I can hear and speak very well, but only because I had ASL as my first language and was able to understand how to structure speech from using ASL. I personally know at least 20 failed students from Tucker Maxon and all of them use ASL because it gives them the power to use their minds by using a full language.
You personally know of 20 students who attended Tucker since the advent of CIs and digital hearing aids who "failed"? (The choise to use ASL doesn't make TMOS a failure.)
Tucker-Maxon went to a mixed hearing-deaf student body in 1999. My children started there in 2002. I don't know of any students there, deaf or hearing, who I would remotely classify as "failed". The truth is that the average deaf student at TMOS makes more than 1 year's academic progress each year...not the norm elsewhere.
TMO has made drastic changes in a positive way to improve its curriculum and the outcome of their students. Most of the people I know finished TMO before 1995. However, my point is, Bilingual children are more likely to be academically successful because of the areas of the brain that bilingualism requires get used, grow, and able to use during life as opposed to monolingual children. Also bilingual children are shown to be happier.
"Speech is not a language in itself, but a modality. Sign Language is a language..." --deafpower12
I do not understand how using your voice to talk is a modality, while using your hands to talk is a language.
English may be expressed in either sound or sight modalities (spoken or written), plus Braille, which is a manual modality. Does ASL exist outside the manual modality? If so, I am not familiar with that.
How does a deaf ASL-user who loses eyesight or manual dexterity communicate?
Sign language is a modality. ASL is a language. There are quite a number of different "sign" languages around the world, not all of them specifically to replace or supplement hearing, either. I agree that it would be a good thing if more people, hearing and non-hearing learned multiple languages. I am ashamed to admit that I know only one language well and four only partially. Most non-USA grade schools require the knowledge of multiple languages. We don't even require the one!
i think doctors police and ppl like this shoud learn bsl my son has to ask me to go with him most of the time and hes 27 ,,,is there any medical ppl on you tube and tell me why my son got told he cant have an inplant as he has to much hearing ,,,and get this hes 100 deaf in his right ear and 90 in the other so haw is that to much hearing
hottietomalie1: We've been over this ad infinitum. If parents wait past the age of 5, the child has missed their language development window. The research shows it is best to implant before 5. In some metrics, implantation as early as 1 leads to the best long term outcomes.
DarkAurora2002: This is FUD. Failure rates are very low (medical device requirement). Even if an implant fails after a decade, the user has likely learned how to speak and can also have a failed implant replaced.
i c were ur commin frm 100%. sorry i just have strong opinions. i guess dis could b debated day n night n no one wud b right or wrong. i just look @ mi own expirence, mi point of view and storys i herd. my frnd hated da CI, she got 1 wen she was 5 w/o approving. Her parents paid thousands for it n she just broke it!! (back wen dey were big) - n me i jus wouldnt wanna b hearing im perfect how i am n i dnt want sum1 2 try n fix me... ASL power!!
im HOH & grew up capital. Im pro-cochlear implants but ONLY with the persons approval. i 100% think ASL should be lerned as a 1st language. deaf pride is huge id rather be how I am and barely hear than have implant or hearing aid and hear! that would ruin my pride! & i think ASL should be learned at a young age cause its easier to learn young than old and one day if the CI breaks or they decide they dont like it or dont wanna use it for whatever reason (which most do) they will know asl!
Cochlear implants do work and they are wonderful devices but... children should with CI's should still be taught ASL at an early age. Why? Many CI's fail after 10 or 15 years and that isn't a long time if you got yours at a very early age. If they know ASL naturally(that is they learned at an early enough age that it becomes a natural language to them), they will still be able to communicate in case their CI fails.
I am a mother of 3, 2 of whom are hard of hearing and wear hearing aids. Children exposed to complete language and amplification before the age of 3 have a higher academic success rate then those who are exposed later or at all. I am not oppsed to ASL I just want my children to master the english languge before I bombard them with other stuff. They are MY children therefore I will raise them as I see FIT!!!
ha ha ha she is indeed cute girl... i refuse to be surprised if i see her growing up as a big time party girl at gallaudet university with other deaf friends (including ones with CI) i aint surprised if she ended up not using her cochlear implant as she get lazy when she gets bad hangover in the morning and gives a birth to a deaf child and forbids the baby to get one cuz..... Uniqueness is what your daughter will be forever lacked of. unless she work so hard her way up, im a CI user too
If you think Clementine in any way lacks uniqueness or a clear sense of herself, you haven't met Clementine.
No one can tell what a young person might do with the college experience, but with this young lady, I would not make blowing an educational opportunity for the sake of alcohol abuse my first guess. Let's hope that doesn't describe you, either.
What an adorable girl! I talk just as well as she does even though I am profoundly deaf and wear a cochlear implant. I still consider myself deaf, not hearing. I can tell you it's hard to develop speech like this, because it requires hours of speech therapy. But in the end, it's all worth it. She'll be happy in the mainstream and will have a successful future ahead of her. It's one of the greatest wonders of oralism, as I am an advocate of it myself.
It is actually not so hard if a child gets a CI (or 2) at a young age. With implants at 12 months, most are caught up to hearing peers by age 3. It does not take years and years of therapy. Many are done with therapy before kindergarten.
Have you seen a CI surgical procedure? Would you wish this on your baby? What if they grow up to regret your decision you made for their body? Most children with CI's grow up to not be able to participate in certain sports and activities...
I certainly know what communcation barriers these deaf children will face, hearing parents do not understand what we really need is both language oral and sign language because without the CI, these children are still DEAF!
"we survive quite well without the processor" who's "we" were you speaking of? is that one of your theories? Have you forgotten what it's like to be a deaf child? Hearing parents are not an expert on deafness, their deaf children is. Listen to your child, put your child needs first before yourself.
See, this is why it is so annoying to keep discussing this video with the ASL posters in this forum. Many of us have said nothing along the lines of "hating ASL" - this is simply a projection you all have been creating.
What we've said, and are still saying, is that for children implanted under 5 (a) TC is inferior to intensive oral and (b) ASL is an inefficient instructional component for kids in oral programs. Focus people, focus.
That's a bait-and-switch. I've read Baby Signs. Millions probably have. Are millions of hearing kids learning ASL? No. They're learning rudimentary signs, which they use until they are capable of spoken communication...about the age at which some kids get implants. After that, they use age-appropriate English grammar and pronunciation.
Would it be a great thing if most kids went on to learn ASL? Very possibly. That still doesn't make it the best thing for every kid, not even every deaf kid.
I am a 13 year old who can hear. But I started learning ASL when I was 6. It would be nice if most kids spoke ASL. There is no one to talk to. And this is a real language so why should'nt they teach this in schools as a second language?
Also, hearing problems are becoming very widespread. I wish I had learned ASL at an early age instead of learning it as an adult like I am now. I would not be having such difficulty communicating in it now.
I agree that widespread use of ASL could benefit society as a whole. Still, I have a friend who started to learn ASL but soon quit, because his arthritis and limited range of motion made it too difficult to do. His physical dexterity unfortunately left him before his hearing did. He was very disappointed not to be able to learn ASL, so you're right. It is always better to learn new languages sooner rather than later.
I think signs should be played in this little girls's life too. I come to noticed that some hearing parents of deaf children do not feel comfortable learning sign language with their deaf children. It isn't about them, the whole deal is about the child.
the only animosity that I see if from you complaining that if someone doesn't agree with you they're being hateful. To bad you can't get past the need for everyone to agree with you. (and I'm deaf but hear)
by saying that the kids when older realize nothing is wrong with them you're just teling us that peer pressure forces them to follow you all. to bad. but then heads full of mush are easily persuaded by those they think really are their friends or mentors. and we all go through the stage where our heads are full of mush. some of us just outgrow it. :)
Don't you agree that hearing parents should give their deaf children ALL TOOLS!! then that will help determine what works the best for that particular child, how are hearing parents going to communicate with their deaf children when they're not wearing their implants? there are hearing people who never bothered to learn ASL and can't even communicate with their deaf child and they expect them to lipread, how long does it take a deaf child to finally get what their parents are saying?
"Don't you agree that hearing parents should give their deaf children ALL TOOLS!!"
Can we PLEASE accept the fact that some parents are going to have their kids implanted and not teach them ASL while the kids are learning to speak and some parents are going to get no implant and use sign only?
Might this be an area where parents can be allowed to parents without vilifying them if they don't agree with us?
If there is anything that Deaf history should teach us, it is the indignity that results when we shove a one-size-fits-all solution onto people capable of deciding what is appropriate for them and their family.
Parents will always bear the burden of facing their adult children over the hundreds of decisions they make over the course of each childhood, including decisions to not decide. There is no getting around that one.
Since cochlear implants do not cure or fix deafness, what happens when the speech processor is turned off or taken off, how will this deaf child understand what is being said if she does not know any sign language?
we survive quite well without the processor. lip reading and writing and such help. Then there are parents who choose to use basic signs to communicate when the processor is off. Like all deaf people we do ok. thanks for asking.
This becomes the 500th comment over a kid that learns to speak. I'm glad she's alone, as Carl says in his videoblog, as normal child development doesn't include the static, the flak, the pixie storm coming from the pro-ASL freaks.
THAT'S a very gracious post! What, Gallaudet should not want Clementine, because she started in an oral-immersion program? Or would you rather they have an only-ASL-from-infancy-students-need-apply rule?
You may not have meant it that way, but it sounds a lot like sour grapes.
sure one does not need to concider onself disabled just because the ada lists deafness as a disablity. but if one doens't concider oneself to be disabled even if it is a listed disablity one should not take advatage of goverment SSI because one is deaf.
"One can live a perfectly normal life without speaking."
This is worth saying. One's level of hearing has to do with having an ability to sense sound that is average. That doesn't make it normative.
There is more than one way to live one's particular collection of abilities. To use medicine and/or technology to enhance one or more of one's senses is one of them, but it isn't the only option. A person who elects to live without doing that is NOT abnormal.
Ah.. So, if it's indeed true. Then, speaking of in future, there are more and more deaf children will have their CIs... Because of this, a CI is so much important than this ASL, the language, as long as we don't really need ASL anymore? Is that correct?
I have no intention to attack here.. Just being curious.
One big question.. If we don't need ASL because CI is so benefitful and to place a CI on all deaf children, do you think the deaf community can survive WITHOUT ASL?
Where is it published? I take it you have never heard of Dr. Marc Marsharck and his work, or of the Journal of Deaf Studies and Education, or The American Annals of the Deaf. Tell me where I can find research that concludes that ASL is responsible for low functioing.
These are periodicals published by pro-ASL, pro-Deaf culturists. They are biased and use kids for their studies who are enrolled in TC and bi-bi programs, who are the ones who generally don't do well with cochlear imiplants.
The comments are mine. I amnot quoting, therefore, no need for citation. But Ihave referred you to any number places you can find research to back up my comments.
You have not referred me anywhere. I want specific citations to specific articles documenting hypotheses tested with statistical methods. These have to be on the sample in question.
Cite that researchm Nesmuth. You are pulling things our of your rear end, as usual. There is no such research, you know it and I know it. And the reasoning for low funcitoning that you give is mothing more than a political comment. And, since you are so against signing, stop posting signed videos and talk for Gawd's sake!
Actually, I do. I'm also backing it up with more than just hearsay and over-generalizations based on small sample observations.
Pony up those citations (real ones on the population we're talking about). You're already on the brink of having a total lack of credibility, I'm curious to see if you can keep from falling into the abyss.
What a great video to showcase the positive results of oral education. I have had the opportunity to observe children who are profoundly deaf and who received CIs at a young age and who receive oral education, and they speak so well and can often understand others without needing to lipread. This video provides a nice example for parents of what can be expected. This girl communicates so well, and this will surely benefit her as she progresses through life.
Oh, they speak so well, and can often understand? That comment alone is indicative of a lack of understanding regarding the topic. And this is a time limited video, and is not predictive of the future. And it provides an unrealistic expectation.
Actually, this is absolutely predictive of the future. This young girl can already communicate beautifully and her speech skills will only improve as she continues her oral education. There is no question that this girl will be able to communicate totally independently throughout her whole life. As someone who is profoundly deaf, I certainly have an understanding of this topic.
Actually, it is not predictive. And speaking well is not the only issue, but only one small part of the picture...that is unless we are talking about parrots. I assume we expect more for our children.
Indeed. We expect independence of spoken communication which this girl clearly has. Parents of deaf children, think about the outcomes you want for your child. Also note the negativity and anger from the people on this forum who are pro-ASL and ask yourselves if that is the outcome you want. Or do you want children who are well-adjusted and can speak 100% for themselves?
I don't think this video is trying to say that oral communication or a CI is right for every deaf child. It's not even saying that a well-adjusted person who speaks English better than the Queen might not prefer to learn and use ASL.
What it is saying is that it is now quite possible for a deaf child to learn to speak as clearly as anyone else, if the CI is implanted early and the proper supportive education is also provided. That is news that should be known!
@plator99
And as I’ve already pointed out, parents don’t always find out that the CI isn’t as effective as they had hoped until years have gone by, by which time their kids education (including language) has already had a substantial delay. You know what would stop their education from being delayed? Sign language.
Can you actually tell me ONE reason why a child raised with a combination of sign and speech would be disadvantaged?
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
@plator99
A kid with severe-profound hearing loss who gets a CI usually goes up to moderate-severe level. With moderate-severe they usually go up to mild-moderate. They don't often give CIs to anyone with mild-modetate loss. It's like wearing earmuffs ALL THE TIME.
So WHAT, exactly, is your problem with having children brought up signing AS WELL as speaking? If they have an interpreter in the classroom, they won’t have to exhaust themselves all the time, and their education won’t be delayed.
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
@plator99
Try wearing earmuffs for a day. They should muffle sound, but you’ll still be able to hear. It should simulate a mild-moderate hearing loss (depending on the grade of the earmuffs).
See how well you go. See how difficult it is to understand people when they look away from you, or when there’s background noise.
Now imagine doing that ALL THE TIME. The concentration required is massive, you miss out on heaps.
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
@plator99
Just for context: the cochlea has around 16,000 delicate hair cells that are used to identify frequencies. The CI has at most 24 electrodes to perform this function.
Lord Ashley, a UK politician who lost his hearing and then got a cochlear described the speech sounds through the CI as like "a croaking dalek with laryngitis". He didn't regret getting it, but it isn't 'normal' hearing.
If that's all kids have to go by during their vital first years of development, they miss out.
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
grow sum kush
3dollarsp 1 year ago
I've also noticed that the deaf culture is slightly like a religion, forcing their views onto everybody else. Pretty much like christianity or muslims, sorry but that's how it seems to me.
Rhosnesni 1 year ago
@Rhosnesni
Ah ha! you are most correct indeed. Its a shame really though that some people are so adamant in rejecting progress.
plator99 9 months ago
I'm a profoundly deaf lad in britain, thankfully my mother chose for me to hear and speak. I actually don't understand the deaf culture because I've never been exposed to one, and I don't know why they really hate any deaf person wanting to speak instead of using sign language. I've never felt the need to learn it cos I DON'T know any other deaf person. I think they just be happy and respect the person's decision.
Rhosnesni 1 year ago
makes me sad when deaf people are so stubborn
im taking an ASL class in highschool and "deaf culture" is no damn different than the other THOUSANDS of cultures in the world, they need to get over it and understand all this beautiful music your missing out on... i would cry for days if i couldnt hear music anymore... i have diabetes, and if they made a magical robot pancreas, id get it, even if that made me a f***ing "cyborg"...
ZombieTiffy 1 year ago
I think the CI is amazing, I was just told recently that I have lot 50% of my hearing and am so scared of being completely deaf, this gives me hope for my future. Many family members on my fathers side is deaf, I wish that everyone could hear.
smurfy253 1 year ago
Good for her skills. I am hearing and love knowing English AND ASL. I hope for her to have the same rich language opportunities!
SydneyinArgyle 1 year ago
Cute kid ... The CI's work for her and that is cool.
julina50 1 year ago
Question - profoundly deaf yet able to hear read the cues of her transliterator without looking at her?
PhotoshopXD 1 year ago
@PhotoshopXD The child has a Cochlear Implant. It allows the child to hear, not as naturally hearing people do, but with practice people with CIs can learn to respond to and understand sound without looking at someone.
Catwalksymphony 1 year ago
Absolutely fantastic!
UBTUNE 1 year ago
Clementine is fantastic! :)
AyleeRose 1 year ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I don't understand this robot. Sorry... :(
hallmeg83 1 year ago
Miracles? Papacox, you've penned miracles wrong! Miracles were never wrought by human hands, and whenever the disciples healed people, it was by the mere touch of their hand! No instruments involved, no medical knowledge involved. You are now saying doctors do miracles. Wrong, that is unscriptural. People are born AS IS for a REASON! You are saying that God slipped up when that's really impossible.
kjallits 2 years ago
@kjallits Our son wasn't born AS IS. He got sick when he was 4 months old, and almost died. It was because of miracles and doctors that he is alive today. And we will give him any opportunity possible. Hearing aides and CIs are two completly different things, we tried hearing aides and they did absolutely nothing for him. Technology was also given to us for a REASON! Since our daughter was born with a heart problem, should we deny her a hear transplant because she was born "AS IS".?
ssgtpapacox 2 years ago 4
@ssgtpapacox
I agree completely!
lovelycaitie89 1 year ago
@ssgtpapacox I don't want you to think this is what all of us that are "pro ASL" believe. I just disagree with the sentiment that it is our choice as parents to alter our children's bodies without their consent, unless it is a procedure necissary to save their life or drastically improve their quality of life.
Catwalksymphony 1 year ago
@Catwalksymphony Call me old school, but until my child is 18, I am their legal gaurdian. So the fact is, I do have the right and choice to make decisions for my children, and esp at their ages now, I have not only the right, but the need to make important decisions for my kids. I made the decision for my son, it took a lot of debating, and some criticism, but I would not change it for the world.
ssgtpapacox 1 year ago
@ssgtpapacox That's your decision. Personally I think the risks outweigh the benefits, and as such I would not make that decision for my kids if I needed to. Regardless, I feel like the child deserves a choice as to what happens to their own bodies. That's my belief on it. It's the same reason I will not pierce my baby's ears or circumsize my sons if I have any. It's their body, not mine. I am not the one that will live with the repercussions of the action.
Catwalksymphony 1 year ago
@Catwalksymphony
You'd better be advocating for children to have a choice on whether or not they are circumcised as well then, since it is their bodies, that goes for body piercing yadda yadda. And such trivial matters as them receiving medical treatment if they are are incapacitated and cannot answer. You're forgetting that it is a parents duty to do everything they can for the well being of their child, and if that means surgery to give them a chance at hearing, theres no reason to say no.
plator99 9 months ago
@ssgtpapacox Also, the main issue most people are taking is the stance that children who get the CI are STILL deaf. When they take the CI off to shower or sleep or for whatever reason, these children are deaf. They deserve to be able to cultivate their natural language, which in the USA is ASL. So long as the parents are cultivating the childs natural language I see no issue other than my personal stance on making such a monumental decision without their consent.
Catwalksymphony 1 year ago
@Catwalksymphony
there is no such thing as a "natural" language, that is just semantics. In the U.S.A. the native language is americanized english. And you are basically stating that you do not support parents choosing what they feel is best for their child unless they also meet your impositions...you are transparent, your biased agenda is quite plain to see.
plator99 9 months ago
@plator99
'Natural' language isn't as ridiculous as it sounds. The natural language for humans is through speech, not any specific speech, but communication through sound. This is not a 'natural' way for Deaf people to communicate. I think the child in this video has done a fantastic job, and have no real problem with cochlear implants, but I DO believe that children with anything more than a mild hearing loss should be exposed to sign. A bilingual upbringing reduces the child's disadvantages.
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
@Fourchetteable
you're referring to the naturally evolved apparatus for communication, not natural language. Due to their disability, the deaf are at a disadvantage using speech and its therefore easier to adopt an alternate means of communication, which in and of itself presents as many if not more problems than it purports to solve, its like moving to mexico and instead of learning the local dialect of spanish, instead learning one of the variant inca or mayan languages still rarely in use.
plator99 7 months ago
@plator99
Imagine that you lived in a community where the people communicate through smell. They have technology that allows your sense of smell to be heightened, but it's still never going to be as good as everyone else's. You cope with smells much of the time, but when you're in a big group, everyone's smells seem to waft together and you can't really distinguish who's saying what.
Now imagine that there are people in that community who speak with words.
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
... continuing.
The people who talk using words are much easier for you to understand. They help explain things, and provide a social group where you can communicate without feeling like you're at a disadvantage. They also allow you to have an education where you're not forced to either miss out or ask for clarification all the time.
You still learn smell-speech. You have to try or most of society will be inaccessible to you. But you don't have to exhaust yourself with smells all the time.
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
@Fourchetteable
not applicable, humanity never developed an advanced sense of smell and don't use pheromones or the accompanying receptors like in much of the animal kingdom. Not smelling would not bar you from communicating with other people. I see what you're trying to say, but you worded it badly and after a vague fashion, please make yourself clear in future comments :D
plator99 7 months ago
@plator99
Of course it's not applicable. It's purely hypothetical. That's a completely ridiculous criticism. I'm just trying to draw a relative comparison. And it IS relative. No matter how good cochlear implants are, a deaf child with a CI will never be able to communicate easily in group situations, on the telephone or where there is background noise. They are always at a disadvantage.
If you couldn't understand that it was not literal, then I really think I'm wasting my time talking to you.
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
@Fourchetteable
touchy and rude, thing is science will advance and eventually wipe out the relatively tiny issues you have with these implants and then the disability will be entirely reversable, why people like you are so bent on turning this into a point of contention is both disturbing and of course symptom of the self loathing and exclusivist society they try to create, to the detriment of deaf cause might I add. Furthermore, making crappy relative comments in a such fashion, wastes my time
plator99 7 months ago
@Fourchetteable
and trying to explain anything to the obviously exclusivist people who demand that the deaf are a separate race and that alexander graham bell was some kind of nazi, are so beyond hope of civil discussion as to be lumped in with the bigots they claim everyone else but they are. It is a disability, by definition, end of discussion there is no room for naysaying on the matter, get over it and move on to cope or obliterate it, there is no excuse for your backwards wrongheaded ideal
plator99 7 months ago
@plator99
You clearly haven't read anything I've said. If you actually READ my responses, I never said anything about CIs being evil. I'm just advocating that deaf kids be brought up bilingual, because CIs aren't as effective as they're made out to be. They're just a glorified hearing aid.
I work with deaf children. For some, the CI works wonders. For others, it doesn't do ANYTHING. The problem is, the parents don't necessarily get told the CI isn't effective, and the kid's education is...
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
continued again.
... delayed by YEARS.
If they learn to sign as well (and every study I've ever looked at agreed that kids who grow up bilingual have a better chance of educational success) that means that they have easier access to information while they adjust to the CI.
And your point about how the "science will advance" is completely meaningless. It might. But in the meantime it's not good enough.
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
@Fourchetteable
by your standards, which are meaningless. I can produce "studies" and "statistics", plenty of which show that children who use sign language are primarily illiterate and learn poorly compared to their hearing counterparts. They also manage to soak up benefits funded by taxpayers like a sponge and contribute nothing back and require specialized services all their lives. Successful corrective surgery early in life contributes significantly to a child's success, not inane "culture"
plator99 7 months ago
@plator99
MY standards are meaningless? I haven't quoted any statistics, so you can't accuse me of making any up. I can tell you that of the Deaf adults that I know (and I know plenty), the ones who were brought up bilingual (a combination of sign and speech, and yes, many have CIs, most have hearing aids) are the ones who function best in life. They are the ones who are able to go to university. Not the ones who only relied on tech, nor the ones who only signed.
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
And I haven't once mentioned Deaf culture. I choose to stay out of that debate. Don't put words in my mouth.
And NONE of the Deaf adults I know (including the ones who only sign) are illiterate, besides the ones who were unfortunate enough to be raised in the era where deaf people weren't educated.
Do you know ANY deaf people? What are YOU basing your completely unfounded accusations on?
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
Btw, I didn't come to this video to complain. I thought it was sweet. I thought the girl was doing really well. The only reason I posted was because YOUR comment seemed ridiculously unfounded and I thought I should put it right.
That being said, however well she does in this setting, this girl will probably find it difficult to understand speech when there's background noise or when there's more than one person around - i.e: most of the time.
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
@Fourchetteable
thats nice, but perhaps keeping your audist opinions to yourself will prevent you wasting my time with nonsense in the future.
plator99 7 months ago
@plator99
Don't complain about me wasting your time. You CHOSE to read what I had to say and to respond to it. And your responses completely failed to address any of the points I brought up, but rather criticised a viewpoint that had nothing to do with what I had to say. So I can't help but feel that you have no rational argument against my stance.
I'm sorry I wasted my time trying to break through your brick wall of misconceptions.
Have a nice life.
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
@Fourchetteable
Im sorry you were never taught useful life skills like how to properly discuss an issue with another person, and it was you whom first tossed prejudgment and misconception upon me, enjoy your censorsed society down under XD
plator99 7 months ago
@plator99
Interesting from someone who gave me no actual points to back up their viewpoint except to call me backward, and is yet to give me ONE reason why deaf children should not sign. You've hinted at reasons for deaf children to learn to talk, but given me nothing whatsoever as to why they shouldn't sign.
Seriously, go back and read through what you've said. There is NOTHING there to validate your stance.
Don't pretend you have the argumentative or the moral high ground. You don't.
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
@Fourchetteable
I don't have to pretend, you crassly barged in with your opinion, there are no "actual points" for me to disprove. Also, the whole point of learning speech is to communicate with society at large as opposed to an extremely tiny minority, so obvious I didn't feel it necessary to spell it out but it seems I had to for your benefit.
plator99 7 months ago
@plator99 And as you keep conveniently ignoring, I never said anything even hinting that deaf children shouldn't learn to speak. I'm advocating that they sign AS WELL.
It's not actually a complex concept to grasp.
And I did not barge in. My comments were perfectly civil until YOU became rude.
Regardless, I'm done trying to rationalise with you.
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
@Fourchetteable
of course you try and act the martyr now, after being a tactless and frenchified mort. From the start it was you who were rude and anything but civil, I wash my hands of you go back to the abbo hoard since they will certainly accept your beastly behavior.
plator99 7 months ago
@ssgtpapacox (LOL sorry for the long reply) I also think that your personal decision does not have to be the same as mine. My personal issues with the CI have nothing to do with your decision making. You have a right to parent however you see fit. You made the choice you thought would best benefit your kid.
The biggest issue is I truly feel ALL deaf children should be exposed to ASL. All of them. Even ones with CI. So long as you are doing that I have absolutely NO beef with your decision.
Catwalksymphony 1 year ago
@ssgtpapacox
I agree wholeheartedly.
plator99 9 months ago
@ssgtpapacox To add to what I was saying:
What we each decide is necissary is up to us, and I would never fault a parent for choosing to give their child a CI... UNLESS they do not teach them ASL. If a person is deaf they are deaf. No amount of technology can change that. If something were to happen to the CI, the child would be at a HUGE disadvantage for not having another way to communicate.
Catwalksymphony 1 year ago
@Catwalksymphony You said"If a person is deaf they are deaf. No amount of technology can change that." The CI has proven this statement wrong. This child can hear obviously. Deaf culture is fine I guess, but deaf culture suggests other people with various challenges not avail of the help out there. Show me a paraplegic who wouldn't do anything to walk again, as one example. Show me a cardiac patient who wouldn't avail of a pacemaker. I'd give my child any advantage I could of needed.
futon 1 year ago
@futon Take the CI off of this girl, and she is deaf. She will always be physically deaf. The technology has not changed that, it has only made it so that she can hear with the help of the CI. If there were a way to restore her natural hearing I would say you have an argument there, but hearing with a CI is NOT like hearing naturally.
Secondly, the things you're comparing to deafness are not similar in any fashion. People live completely normal and fulfilling lives without hearing.
Catwalksymphony 1 year ago
@kjallits I'm not saying God slipped up at all. I'm saying he puts people on earth to do certain things. Our daughter was born with a heart defect, AS IS. Our son was born hearing, then lost it, due to other illnesses. In both cases we chose surgery and technology because we had the opportunity and we felt it was the best thing to do for our kids.
ssgtpapacox 2 years ago
I also want to point out, that God's son, Jesus was the one that bestowed miracles. Jesus (which is part of the Holy Trinity) restored hearing, vision, and speech to people. So miracles.....yes, they are miracles. And I never said God slipped up, Also, did God not put us on this earth to do His work? Who is to say God did not bestow knowledge unto our doctors? God grants gifts to us. I am not saying CI's are right or wrong, but I am saying if you don't
ssgtpapacox 2 years ago
like them... don't tell others they are stupid for their choices. Esp. since ( I know personally) it is not an easy choice, but in the end, everyone just wants what they feel is best for their children.
ssgtpapacox 2 years ago
If I happened to have a deaf child in the future I would not give him/her a CI, but that's my personal choice...
What I do NOT believe is a choice, but a RIGHT, is for EVERY deaf child to be bilingual. It is every defa childs right, CI or not, to know ASL. Though we live in a hearing world, if something happens in the future and this child cannot rely on her CI... what mode or method does she then have to recieve communication? These parents are PURPOSELY putting her at a disadvantage.
Catwalksymphony 2 years ago
@Catwalksymphony why not get CI and teach them ASL? that is what I did with my son.
ssgtpapacox 1 year ago 2
@ssgtpapacox I don't feel being deaf limits a child in any way. I do believe and know that having a CI can limit a person and be a hinderance. I would want them to make the decision on their own, it would not be my place to put them in harms way by means of surgery that I do not feel is necissary to live a normal and healthy life. I would allow it to be their decision to make later in life.
Catwalksymphony 1 year ago
You should rephrase the title. This Child was Deaf! How cute she is!
UBTUNE 2 years ago
i imagine the parents were just doing what they thought was best for her. it could not have been an easy decision to make.
ArrowBiter 2 years ago
I agree with u Petitfutemievre years from now they could have all these different easier ways for deaf ppl to speak with more advantages ruling disdvantages! I think clementine is doing a wonderful job!
LuvLasts4evr13 2 years ago
I don't understand why there is so much hate in the comments below.
Hearing makes life easier, like it or not, the majority of the world is hearing and deafness is disabling.
I understand this girl's speech perfectly and if later, she doesn't want this she can ask for it to be taken away.
Also CI is always being improved and I'm sure some years down the line the disadvantages listed will be less.
Don't deprive someone else of a chance to be enable just because you aren't.
It's very sad to see.
petitfutemievre 2 years ago
Oh, by the way. I'm stone deaf, and I played in the junior high school band. Hearing is not necessary. I played instruments perfectly! My family understands me. My friends understands me. Co-workers understand me. Anyone who doesn't, doesn't have the right attitude towards the deaf. The Bible states that God made the deaf, the blind, and the normal. We are born that way for a reason, and that reason is not just to be fixed! Stupid hearing people are blind to what we can do.
kjallits 2 years ago
ShelandMac, she can't take her CI off to scuba dive or play sports. The magnet inside her head is permanent. THAT is what prevents people from doing what others can. She's stuck, forever. Stupid parents.
The amount of time taken away from academic studies for speech therapy is UNBELIEVABLE. I spent TWO HOURS PER DAY during school just for speech therapy, and I missed two classes EVERY DAY. I barely scraped by with the grades. Thankfully, I no longer speak. I actually feel free.
kjallits 2 years ago
@kjallits
Uh, do your research! She CAN take off her speach processor (The outside part) to go swimming. She doesn't need to take it off for sports unless they involve a lot of water. My sister has a CI and she goes swimming, plays soccer and other sports. She loves her CI and couldn't imagine her life without it!
lovelycaitie89 1 year ago
Some deafness is genetic. What if that kid has deaf children? How will that kid communicate with the children? Sign language is UNIVERSAL. Even stupid hearing people gestures. If they're so against ASL and prefers oralism, then why do they even gesture?
Too bad, really. Because she has CI, she will never ride an airplane, scuba dive, and will never participate in sports. This is exactly what CI doctors tell children.
kjallits 2 years ago
Everyone uses sign language, but it is not universal.
reket1990 2 years ago
@kjallits My son has bilatteral C.I.s and is able to play in the water, is starting wrestling in a few weeks, and has no problem communicating with anybody whether he has them on or not. I feel that having the CIs gives him MORE opportunities now and in the future. And if he so choses when he is older that he doesn't like them or doesn't want them, he can has the choice then to not wear them.
ssgtpapacox 2 years ago
@kjallits He CAN Also ride in an airplane. It is no different than someone with metal in their arm or in their chest (like our daughter, who as ALSO has riden in an airplane, after open heart surgery, who has metal in her chest). Some of Jesus's greatest miracles was when he allowed the blind, the deaf and the mute to see, hear and speak. God created doctors and scientists for a reason as well.
ssgtpapacox 2 years ago
@kjallits Are you using the term "Stupid hearing people" in a way to refer to ALL hearing people as stupid, or only pointing out the hearing people that are stupid to things that are different from them? Because I am hearing and I agree with you.
Catwalksymphony 1 year ago
@kjallits
I hate to disagree with youI think I should point out that sign language is not universal. You know ASL, I know Auslan. Different countries have different sign languages. Gesture is universal but sign language is not.
Fourchetteable 7 months ago
I feel sorry for this kid. Because this kid is solely oral, she will NEVER get along with children who use ASL, children who are actually deaf just like her. Once she goes out into the world, she'll find out her speech is horrible and is not understood by 90% of all hearing people out there.
I'm ex-oral, it happened to me and to ALL ex and current oralers that I know of. That child is being disadvantaged on purpose!
kjallits 2 years ago
I agree with you about making permanent decisions without choices, but actually...she's speaking very well.
I also don't agree with the "never get along with children who use ASL" because though language is a barrier to friendship, it's not absolute.
reket1990 2 years ago
why take the GREATEST RISK ????? wait till baby's little older use ear aids till the child's 13 or 15 to make the decision or you will have regrets because you might destroyed their body or even death its not the worth the risk we have couple freinds who died from it The CI's companys wont announce any of this news they just want money money money money
H0EYHEMP 2 years ago
@H0EYHEMP Because sometimes you cannot wait to make the decision. Our son only had a small window of time before his cochleas were hardened too much to the point they would not have been able to do the surgery. Its not an easy decison for anyone who has to make it.
ssgtpapacox 2 years ago
once deaf, always deaf... a CI doesnt gaurentee the ability to hear forever, you cant just become a hearing person. still deaf at the end of the day. ASL all the way, AUDISM should be a crime...
jamielee09 2 years ago
just be lucky u have both asl and ci i grow up and didnt have either ci or know how to sign tell i was about 15 and that was very frustreating not being able to say whats on your mind i would have givin anything to have ci or sign when i was growing up.
jb55101 2 years ago
I am a mother of a 6 year old deaf child. She recieved a CI at age 2. She too has fluent oral language skills and has beautiful grammar and syntactic structure. Many of you act like we are ASL haters, we are DEFINITELY not, we just want to provide out children with the best chance for sucess we can. I worked at my daughters oral school in Phoenix for 3 years, it was amazing, the children spoke beautifully. Other Deaf children speak beautifully using their hands, just find joy in childs success.
starwars19271 2 years ago 18
@starwars19271 I just don't see why ASL on it's own DOESN'T provide a child with the best chance they can. I don't see why the language we speak affects our ability to succeed in any way....
Catwalksymphony 1 year ago
@Catwalksymphony it affects a person to succeed the same way that hispanic who can't speak english... that hispanic will spend his life picking fruit or making beds or only providing services to those who only speak spanish which is a significant minority of people. If you can't understand this very basic concept then you are just screwed. i realize deaf people have been raised with deaf pride but it's nothing you should be proud of... it just is.
anime1973 1 year ago
@anime1973 Uh wow, racist much? You do realize there are majority Spanish speaking countries right? Horrible analogy. Deaf people can be deaf and still communicate with hearing people. They can usually speak and read lips, or at the very least they do know English. Being able to hear it doesn't change their ability to communicate with English speaking people at all. Deaf people of any culture always learn the language of their culture as well.
Catwalksymphony 1 year ago
Somehow, I can't understand why people have such a problem with something that gives deaf children BACK their hearing.... give them back the ability to attend a "mainstream" school.... fully communicate with their peers who don't know sign language.... And the thing with letting the child choose sounds, I don't know, odd to me. How is a child under 5 going to know what is best for them?
But then, I admit I've never been deaf, so... It could be I just don't understand.
ladysilverstar04 2 years ago
but if they never had that hearing in the first place, how can you be giving it back? Also, a lot of parents who make the choice of a ci, i feel, do it without all the information that needs to be provided. I have a few friends who have had or have it and most of them dont use it anymore because it did NOT work for them in the long run. A temporary fix is still just a temporary fix!
deafxtian26 2 years ago
science over religion, Im glad we came up with the Technology to help this kid...
1keegansdad 3 years ago
she's so cute :)
dania2008 3 years ago
this happens one out of a million times. Do you know how many deaf children are SUFFERING because the parents refuse to accept that their child is deaf. The numbers make me SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!
gutshot300 3 years ago
I would love to know where you get the statistic of millions. I have been in this field for many years and there are many children and adults who are benefitting from a CI. It is more successful in certain people such as young preligually deafened chilren and post lingually deafened adults. But this outcome is more common than some may think. The CI is not for everyone but we have to respect each person's or family's right to choose what is best for them at the time
Eclypse40 3 years ago
This is true, more than 88% of parents are not able to communicate with their child fluently enough to carry on normal parent-child relationships because the parents have been told that ASL would hinder the child's development but it really hinders family relationships.
deafpower12 3 years ago
Its amazing what we can do today.
engl4nd24 3 years ago
Do those of you who are so pro-ASL realize what a natural conversation this child is having? Do you realize she is not even looking up when she is spoken to because she doesn't need to read lips? That her speech, grammar, and voice quality are typical for a (hearing) child her age? I am guessing not, since your comments against the CI or against children getting the CI, or insisting on ASL seem quite foolish juxtaposed with this video. The child speaks for herself.
lmg2263943 3 years ago
This is a video of a girl who is a "success" story, which is quite rare; no one is going to post a "failed" story video on here. Point is, what's wrong with bilingualism? Cochlear Implants don't work for everyone and sometimes they work for a while and then the body rejects it and it dosen't work anymore. ASL should be a part of every person who has a "hearing loss's" life to give them options and even a back up if the CI fails, which is more often than not.
deafpower12 3 years ago 2
A)Success isn't rare at Tucker-Maxon;
B)ASL without speech isn't fully bilingual; it's monolingual. There is a reason that languages are called "tongues".
C) My kids go to Tucker-Maxon. While they don't use ASL on-campus, TMOS has not discouraged us from teaching ASL to our children. The kids, however, are not so great in the fine-motor area, and they haven't wanted to learn ASL.
D) CIs don't have the failure rate you imply, and anyone can lose their hearing or voice.
Why not ASL for all?
OregonBLB 3 years ago 3
Sign Language should be supplemented by speech, not speech supplemented by Sign Language. Speech is not a language in itself, but a modality. Sign Language is a language, therefore ASL should be used first, and speech afterwards. Take it from someone who has lived through it all.
deafpower12 3 years ago
wat r u to say wat any1 should have if her parents want her to be able to here they can do that
crybabby22344 3 years ago
None of us say she shouldn't be allowed the option to hear, but what you are seeing in this video is only a small success story out of the many failures that go through oral education. I can hear and speak very well, but only because I had ASL as my first language and was able to understand how to structure speech from using ASL. I personally know at least 20 failed students from Tucker Maxon and all of them use ASL because it gives them the power to use their minds by using a full language.
deafpower12 3 years ago
You personally know of 20 students who attended Tucker since the advent of CIs and digital hearing aids who "failed"? (The choise to use ASL doesn't make TMOS a failure.)
Tucker-Maxon went to a mixed hearing-deaf student body in 1999. My children started there in 2002. I don't know of any students there, deaf or hearing, who I would remotely classify as "failed". The truth is that the average deaf student at TMOS makes more than 1 year's academic progress each year...not the norm elsewhere.
OregonBLB 3 years ago 2
TMO has made drastic changes in a positive way to improve its curriculum and the outcome of their students. Most of the people I know finished TMO before 1995. However, my point is, Bilingual children are more likely to be academically successful because of the areas of the brain that bilingualism requires get used, grow, and able to use during life as opposed to monolingual children. Also bilingual children are shown to be happier.
deafpower12 3 years ago
"Speech is not a language in itself, but a modality. Sign Language is a language..." --deafpower12
I do not understand how using your voice to talk is a modality, while using your hands to talk is a language.
English may be expressed in either sound or sight modalities (spoken or written), plus Braille, which is a manual modality. Does ASL exist outside the manual modality? If so, I am not familiar with that.
How does a deaf ASL-user who loses eyesight or manual dexterity communicate?
OregonBLB 3 years ago
Sign language is a modality. ASL is a language. There are quite a number of different "sign" languages around the world, not all of them specifically to replace or supplement hearing, either. I agree that it would be a good thing if more people, hearing and non-hearing learned multiple languages. I am ashamed to admit that I know only one language well and four only partially. Most non-USA grade schools require the knowledge of multiple languages. We don't even require the one!
Meerkat764 2 years ago
i think doctors police and ppl like this shoud learn bsl my son has to ask me to go with him most of the time and hes 27 ,,,is there any medical ppl on you tube and tell me why my son got told he cant have an inplant as he has to much hearing ,,,and get this hes 100 deaf in his right ear and 90 in the other so haw is that to much hearing
georgephup 3 years ago
Excellent Girl, mum you must be so proud. She will go far!
buzzsteve 3 years ago
hottietomalie1: We've been over this ad infinitum. If parents wait past the age of 5, the child has missed their language development window. The research shows it is best to implant before 5. In some metrics, implantation as early as 1 leads to the best long term outcomes.
DarkAurora2002: This is FUD. Failure rates are very low (medical device requirement). Even if an implant fails after a decade, the user has likely learned how to speak and can also have a failed implant replaced.
NullRegister 3 years ago
NullRegister:
i c were ur commin frm 100%. sorry i just have strong opinions. i guess dis could b debated day n night n no one wud b right or wrong. i just look @ mi own expirence, mi point of view and storys i herd. my frnd hated da CI, she got 1 wen she was 5 w/o approving. Her parents paid thousands for it n she just broke it!! (back wen dey were big) - n me i jus wouldnt wanna b hearing im perfect how i am n i dnt want sum1 2 try n fix me... ASL power!!
hottietomalie1 2 years ago
im HOH & grew up capital. Im pro-cochlear implants but ONLY with the persons approval. i 100% think ASL should be lerned as a 1st language. deaf pride is huge id rather be how I am and barely hear than have implant or hearing aid and hear! that would ruin my pride! & i think ASL should be learned at a young age cause its easier to learn young than old and one day if the CI breaks or they decide they dont like it or dont wanna use it for whatever reason (which most do) they will know asl!
hottietomalie1 3 years ago
That is why I am pro ASL and cochlear implant, but if a person gets the cochlear implant than they should have both.
I think the decision to get a hearing aid or cochlear implant is a deeply personal one. It is a decision that should never be forced.
nonew3 3 years ago
Cochlear implants do work and they are wonderful devices but... children should with CI's should still be taught ASL at an early age. Why? Many CI's fail after 10 or 15 years and that isn't a long time if you got yours at a very early age. If they know ASL naturally(that is they learned at an early enough age that it becomes a natural language to them), they will still be able to communicate in case their CI fails.
DarkAurora2002 3 years ago
Wonderful. I am pro-cochlear implants.
anarchisttadpole 3 years ago
I am a mother of 3, 2 of whom are hard of hearing and wear hearing aids. Children exposed to complete language and amplification before the age of 3 have a higher academic success rate then those who are exposed later or at all. I am not oppsed to ASL I just want my children to master the english languge before I bombard them with other stuff. They are MY children therefore I will raise them as I see FIT!!!
mylittle1z 3 years ago
ha ha ha she is indeed cute girl... i refuse to be surprised if i see her growing up as a big time party girl at gallaudet university with other deaf friends (including ones with CI) i aint surprised if she ended up not using her cochlear implant as she get lazy when she gets bad hangover in the morning and gives a birth to a deaf child and forbids the baby to get one cuz..... Uniqueness is what your daughter will be forever lacked of. unless she work so hard her way up, im a CI user too
theKorn 4 years ago
If you think Clementine in any way lacks uniqueness or a clear sense of herself, you haven't met Clementine.
No one can tell what a young person might do with the college experience, but with this young lady, I would not make blowing an educational opportunity for the sake of alcohol abuse my first guess. Let's hope that doesn't describe you, either.
OregonBLB 4 years ago
When a culture is cornered or threatened with extinction, they resort to childishness both online and offline.
My car's exhaust, for example, was stuffed with bananas, front wipers greased, not to mention silicone glue in the key holes.
The culturally deaf, sigh, they react by picking on those who are content with the changes.
deafcenter 4 years ago 13
@deafcenter Not all of one group does or thinks anything. The Culturally Deaf community didn't do anything to your car. Individuals, did.
SydneyinArgyle 1 year ago
What an adorable girl! I talk just as well as she does even though I am profoundly deaf and wear a cochlear implant. I still consider myself deaf, not hearing. I can tell you it's hard to develop speech like this, because it requires hours of speech therapy. But in the end, it's all worth it. She'll be happy in the mainstream and will have a successful future ahead of her. It's one of the greatest wonders of oralism, as I am an advocate of it myself.
angelstar819 4 years ago 2
It is actually not so hard if a child gets a CI (or 2) at a young age. With implants at 12 months, most are caught up to hearing peers by age 3. It does not take years and years of therapy. Many are done with therapy before kindergarten.
lmg2263943 3 years ago
Have you seen a CI surgical procedure? Would you wish this on your baby? What if they grow up to regret your decision you made for their body? Most children with CI's grow up to not be able to participate in certain sports and activities...
deafpower12 3 years ago
I certainly know what communcation barriers these deaf children will face, hearing parents do not understand what we really need is both language oral and sign language because without the CI, these children are still DEAF!
Pammie77 4 years ago
"we survive quite well without the processor" who's "we" were you speaking of? is that one of your theories? Have you forgotten what it's like to be a deaf child? Hearing parents are not an expert on deafness, their deaf children is. Listen to your child, put your child needs first before yourself.
Pammie77 4 years ago
"we" were you speaking of? is that one of your theories? Have you forgotten what it's like to be a deaf child?>
Well I'm one of those who has a processor. Believe me, we adapt to those times when we don't hear much at all.
JT799 4 years ago 2
I cant believe how much people here hate ASL. It is shocking!!!
shelandMac 4 years ago
Unfortunately, that what it looks like to me ShelandMac.
Pammie77 4 years ago
See, this is why it is so annoying to keep discussing this video with the ASL posters in this forum. Many of us have said nothing along the lines of "hating ASL" - this is simply a projection you all have been creating.
What we've said, and are still saying, is that for children implanted under 5 (a) TC is inferior to intensive oral and (b) ASL is an inefficient instructional component for kids in oral programs. Focus people, focus.
NullRegister 4 years ago 2
It is ok to teach hearing kids sign language so they can get a head start on expressive language but it is not ok to teach deaf kids sign language?
shelandMac 4 years ago
That's a bait-and-switch. I've read Baby Signs. Millions probably have. Are millions of hearing kids learning ASL? No. They're learning rudimentary signs, which they use until they are capable of spoken communication...about the age at which some kids get implants. After that, they use age-appropriate English grammar and pronunciation.
Would it be a great thing if most kids went on to learn ASL? Very possibly. That still doesn't make it the best thing for every kid, not even every deaf kid.
OregonBLB 4 years ago 3
I am a 13 year old who can hear. But I started learning ASL when I was 6. It would be nice if most kids spoke ASL. There is no one to talk to. And this is a real language so why should'nt they teach this in schools as a second language?
memyselfandiamshe 3 years ago
Also, hearing problems are becoming very widespread. I wish I had learned ASL at an early age instead of learning it as an adult like I am now. I would not be having such difficulty communicating in it now.
nonew3 3 years ago
I agree that widespread use of ASL could benefit society as a whole. Still, I have a friend who started to learn ASL but soon quit, because his arthritis and limited range of motion made it too difficult to do. His physical dexterity unfortunately left him before his hearing did. He was very disappointed not to be able to learn ASL, so you're right. It is always better to learn new languages sooner rather than later.
OregonBLB 3 years ago
I think signs should be played in this little girls's life too. I come to noticed that some hearing parents of deaf children do not feel comfortable learning sign language with their deaf children. It isn't about them, the whole deal is about the child.
BlondeCheri 4 years ago
the only animosity that I see if from you complaining that if someone doesn't agree with you they're being hateful. To bad you can't get past the need for everyone to agree with you. (and I'm deaf but hear)
JT799 4 years ago
by saying that the kids when older realize nothing is wrong with them you're just teling us that peer pressure forces them to follow you all. to bad. but then heads full of mush are easily persuaded by those they think really are their friends or mentors. and we all go through the stage where our heads are full of mush. some of us just outgrow it. :)
JT799 4 years ago
Don't you agree that hearing parents should give their deaf children ALL TOOLS!! then that will help determine what works the best for that particular child, how are hearing parents going to communicate with their deaf children when they're not wearing their implants? there are hearing people who never bothered to learn ASL and can't even communicate with their deaf child and they expect them to lipread, how long does it take a deaf child to finally get what their parents are saying?
Pammie77 4 years ago
Again, we've been over this already.
NullRegister 4 years ago
"Don't you agree that hearing parents should give their deaf children ALL TOOLS!!"
Can we PLEASE accept the fact that some parents are going to have their kids implanted and not teach them ASL while the kids are learning to speak and some parents are going to get no implant and use sign only?
Might this be an area where parents can be allowed to parents without vilifying them if they don't agree with us?
OregonBLB 4 years ago 2
If there is anything that Deaf history should teach us, it is the indignity that results when we shove a one-size-fits-all solution onto people capable of deciding what is appropriate for them and their family.
Parents will always bear the burden of facing their adult children over the hundreds of decisions they make over the course of each childhood, including decisions to not decide. There is no getting around that one.
Make your arguments, but lose the "shoulds".
OregonBLB 4 years ago
Since cochlear implants do not cure or fix deafness, what happens when the speech processor is turned off or taken off, how will this deaf child understand what is being said if she does not know any sign language?
*curious*
Pammie77 4 years ago
We've been over this already. I recommend reviewing the first 500 posts.
NullRegister 4 years ago 2
we survive quite well without the processor. lip reading and writing and such help. Then there are parents who choose to use basic signs to communicate when the processor is off. Like all deaf people we do ok. thanks for asking.
JT799 4 years ago
This becomes the 500th comment over a kid that learns to speak. I'm glad she's alone, as Carl says in his videoblog, as normal child development doesn't include the static, the flak, the pixie storm coming from the pro-ASL freaks.
deafcenter 4 years ago
As soon as Clementine finishes high school, our school will be ready for her with a red carpet.
oralgallaudet 4 years ago
Ah yes. The oralists are always on the lookout for yet another poster child.
jillsigns 4 years ago
THAT'S a very gracious post! What, Gallaudet should not want Clementine, because she started in an oral-immersion program? Or would you rather they have an only-ASL-from-infancy-students-need-apply rule?
You may not have meant it that way, but it sounds a lot like sour grapes.
OregonBLB 4 years ago
That is not what I said at all.
jillsigns 4 years ago
Please explain to someone like Clementine what you did mean by the poster child post.
OregonBLB 4 years ago
Good if deafness is not a disablity to you and many others make sure you don't get SSI based on that disablity. thank you.
JT799 4 years ago
Just because the ADA defines it as a disability does not mean that one is forced to see themselves as disabled.
jillsigns 4 years ago
sure one does not need to concider onself disabled just because the ada lists deafness as a disablity. but if one doens't concider oneself to be disabled even if it is a listed disablity one should not take advatage of goverment SSI because one is deaf.
JT799 4 years ago
Nor should they request interpreters or other accommodations granted under the ADA. Also, they should stop utilizing the relay service.
NullRegister 4 years ago
I am so happy she can speak and live a normal life. It brings tears to my eyes.
californiadeaf 4 years ago 5
One can live a perfectly normal life without speaking.
jillsigns 4 years ago
"One can live a perfectly normal life without speaking."
This is worth saying. One's level of hearing has to do with having an ability to sense sound that is average. That doesn't make it normative.
There is more than one way to live one's particular collection of abilities. To use medicine and/or technology to enhance one or more of one's senses is one of them, but it isn't the only option. A person who elects to live without doing that is NOT abnormal.
OregonBLB 4 years ago 2
I can't believe you delete my comments, obviously, you'd rather to let ASL die out. Why?
The Deaf community won't survive with ASL, anyway.
MannK05 4 years ago
Ah.. So, if it's indeed true. Then, speaking of in future, there are more and more deaf children will have their CIs... Because of this, a CI is so much important than this ASL, the language, as long as we don't really need ASL anymore? Is that correct?
If so, why (or why not if you are disagree?)
MannK05 4 years ago
I have no intention to attack here.. Just being curious.
One big question.. If we don't need ASL because CI is so benefitful and to place a CI on all deaf children, do you think the deaf community can survive WITHOUT ASL?
MannK05 4 years ago
Where is it published? I take it you have never heard of Dr. Marc Marsharck and his work, or of the Journal of Deaf Studies and Education, or The American Annals of the Deaf. Tell me where I can find research that concludes that ASL is responsible for low functioing.
jillsigns 4 years ago
Matthew S Moore is nothing but a leader of american deaf anals!
californiadeaf 4 years ago
These are periodicals published by pro-ASL, pro-Deaf culturists. They are biased and use kids for their studies who are enrolled in TC and bi-bi programs, who are the ones who generally don't do well with cochlear imiplants.
uaeniram 4 years ago
_Still_ waiting on citations from jillsigns for her outlandish comments.
I can only hope she's been too busy getting caught up on the past several decades of research. It is clearly evident she hasn't been reading it...
NullRegister 4 years ago 3
The comments are mine. I amnot quoting, therefore, no need for citation. But Ihave referred you to any number places you can find research to back up my comments.
jillsigns 4 years ago
You have not referred me anywhere. I want specific citations to specific articles documenting hypotheses tested with statistical methods. These have to be on the sample in question.
Pony up.
NullRegister 4 years ago 2
Cite that researchm Nesmuth. You are pulling things our of your rear end, as usual. There is no such research, you know it and I know it. And the reasoning for low funcitoning that you give is mothing more than a political comment. And, since you are so against signing, stop posting signed videos and talk for Gawd's sake!
jillsigns 4 years ago
jillsigns has definitely been consistently empty handed with justification and heavy handed with wild claims.
Bluffing serpent sounds about right.
NullRegister 4 years ago 3
No need to bluff. Ihave the experience, the education, and the knowledge to back up everything I say. Its a shame you don't have same.
jillsigns 4 years ago
Actually, I do. I'm also backing it up with more than just hearsay and over-generalizations based on small sample observations.
Pony up those citations (real ones on the population we're talking about). You're already on the brink of having a total lack of credibility, I'm curious to see if you can keep from falling into the abyss.
NullRegister 4 years ago 3
What a great video to showcase the positive results of oral education. I have had the opportunity to observe children who are profoundly deaf and who received CIs at a young age and who receive oral education, and they speak so well and can often understand others without needing to lipread. This video provides a nice example for parents of what can be expected. This girl communicates so well, and this will surely benefit her as she progresses through life.
ascordwe 4 years ago 4
Oh, they speak so well, and can often understand? That comment alone is indicative of a lack of understanding regarding the topic. And this is a time limited video, and is not predictive of the future. And it provides an unrealistic expectation.
jillsigns 4 years ago
Actually, this is absolutely predictive of the future. This young girl can already communicate beautifully and her speech skills will only improve as she continues her oral education. There is no question that this girl will be able to communicate totally independently throughout her whole life. As someone who is profoundly deaf, I certainly have an understanding of this topic.
ascordwe 4 years ago 2
Actually, it is not predictive. And speaking well is not the only issue, but only one small part of the picture...that is unless we are talking about parrots. I assume we expect more for our children.
jillsigns 4 years ago
Indeed. We expect independence of spoken communication which this girl clearly has. Parents of deaf children, think about the outcomes you want for your child. Also note the negativity and anger from the people on this forum who are pro-ASL and ask yourselves if that is the outcome you want. Or do you want children who are well-adjusted and can speak 100% for themselves?
ascordwe 4 years ago 3
I don't think this video is trying to say that oral communication or a CI is right for every deaf child. It's not even saying that a well-adjusted person who speaks English better than the Queen might not prefer to learn and use ASL.
What it is saying is that it is now quite possible for a deaf child to learn to speak as clearly as anyone else, if the CI is implanted early and the proper supportive education is also provided. That is news that should be known!
OregonBLB 4 years ago