@DADLANDSHOW - It's fascinating from a point of view that people mired in traditions and respect them without actually understanding why they do. I can't figure it out. What I'm wondering is if people can abandon their beliefs and foster a sense of community based upon nothing more than a shared experience without invoking their superstitions. Love your channel, BTW.
@helix4811 - If you think that I should bow down to Islam and pretend like it has any merit whatsoever then yes, you have been wasting your time. Good day to you too, sir.
It seems I'm wasting my time with you seeing as you won't listen to others who may disagree. Don't bother replying unless it is to say that there is a chance I'm right and you could be wrong. Until then, you will be ignored.
@helix4811 - I am not hating anyone, I am hating a religious dogma, and if you could stand back for a second you'd realize that you notion of Allah is tied way to closely to your ego.
There's a reason Allah always agrees with you. It's because you have made him up in your mind.
This video in no way offends the doctrine of Islam as I am neither Muslim, because your rules do not apply to me, and because the spirit of that doctrine goes against human idolization, which you have forgotten.
Why do you assume I'm religious or a muslim? I am an agnostic, nothing more, nothing less.
The reason why it's hate speech is because you KNOW it will offend someone, and you purposefully drew it to get that reaction. It isn't about free speech, it is about hurting someones feelings.
Islamic laws may not apply to you, but that doesn't mean you should ridicule it. Criticism and insulting are two different things.
Hate speech doesn't necessarily mean that you have to say that you hate someone. There are different forms of it. You're using actions to show your hatred, you know it will offend someone, yet you still did it.
A bully doesn't have to pick on a child or call him/her names, all he/she has to do is spread rumors in order to hurt the child's feelings.
@helix4811 - Offending someone isn't hate speech, it's a normal consequence of opposing views. I find the suppression of free speech through violent threats far more offensive than any cartoon I could draw. If you don't like that, tough. If the show were on the other foot, and I said that your religious tolerance undermined my scientific view and therefor it's offensive to me, should you be kept silent. What if I used violence to endorse to endorse that view, what then?
Also, you did get one thing right about me, I don't idolize humanity, why? because I see no reason too. The fact that you assume I'm even religious shows me that you're egotistical. I may come from an Islamic background and may refer to my self as a muslim, but it would be wrong to assume I'm religious in anyway. I am neither arrogant enough to say some form of divine being is fake, and I'm not foolish to 100% believe in it.
@helix4811 - So you lie to pollsters about your religion? I always knew the numbers were skewed by people like you, but I never met someone who openly admitted it. If you don't believe in Islam anymore you are an apostate, which in many Islamic countries is punishable by death. Like everything else in Islam, including speaking freely.
And here you are avoiding my points and attacking me personally. It's just sad that you can't defend your point so you HAVE to attack me personally.
I don't lie about anything, referring to myself as a muslim is a matter of convenience, when people ask me if i believe in religion, i am honestly answer and tell them I am not religious.
@helix4811 - I don't think I've attacked you personally in any way yet. Your ego should not get tied up in your world view. If you allow that, it blurs your objectivity. When faced with arguments which you do not agree, threatening to disengage form the conversation will not alter my perspective in any way. It demonstrates both your bigotry and your inability to consider the opposing view.
finally, your entire comment showed me that you justify your actions by assumptions and self-reasoning. Everything you have said is similar to what I would expect coming from a preacher of religion, not by an Atheist.
@helix4811 - Maybe I did jump to the conclusion that you were Muslim, when you weren't. I fail to see how that affects any of my other statements. You were, after all, defending Islam.
I wasn't defending Islam, I was simply sharing my opinion and telling you about certain facts, like the Hadiths. If that happens to defend Islam indirectly, then so be it.
@helix4811 - As for the Hadiths, they betray what a barbaric individual Mohammad was. They don't defend Islam, they betray it. So, since I don't agree with you on any single thing you can proceed to ignore me in perpetuity.
@helix4811 - If you identify yourself as a Muslim to anyone, and you are not a Muslim (on who believes the tenets of Islam) then you are a liar. Pretty simple. I'm not trying to offend you when I say that, but when you can't be honest about who and what you are you should do some retrospection and find out why. I could call myself something that I am not, but what possible good reason could I have for that?
@stevenweir76 - I meant introspection, not retrospection. Sorry. But in retrospect, you haven't given a single good reason for me to cease opposing Islam, a barbaric religion where extreme violence and bigotry run mainstream and moderates are silenced by the delusional to defend a belief that is indefensible to any rational human being.
your entire rant consists of the usual anti-Islamic propaganda. As for free speech, I'm not saying that you shouldn't defend it, I'm saying that there is a difference between free speech and hate speech.
Since you haven't even answered any of my points and have proceeded to change the subject, I'm assuming you can't answer me
@helix4811 - While I may be anti-Islam, that doesn't equate to hate speech. It equates to disdain for a superstitious mentality which mires a civilization in the dark ages. You ask me to answer points but you haven't made any. You say that what I say is hate speech, but it isn't, it is simply that I disagree with the extremists of Islam that would silence anyone simply for criticism. Answer my criticism with logic or reason, or please, shut the fuck up.
Well, this is really immature. Insulting a religion adhered to by millions on the actions of a minority (terrorists) is the character of a bigot. Hope you have a good life, because I do not see you making any friends, or even having one girlfriend on your characteristics and values.
@EZdrifter21 - I am not Muslim and their rules are for them not to draw Mohammad, it was initially intended so that Mohammad would not be an idol. What I do does not go against the Islam, but that is what angry Muslims think.
Pick your battles, your concern is not for Islam, it is only to put egg on my face. As a Christian, you should know better than to say thou fool.
Well, couldn't one turn this around and say "your only concern is to mock, insult, degrade and deface religion and religious figures" ? As an atheist, you should know that you spend more time talking about God than a Christian.
@EZdrifter21 - I should also say that I am happily married and have a wonderful daughter, who I don't lie to about what humans know. But I see the Christianity in you for certain, was it Jesus who said, "Ostracize those who don't believe as you." or was that your minister. Heck, you might have come up with that all on your own.
So tell me, which is more offensive, drawing a cartoon of Mohammad, or killing someone who draws a cartoon of Mohammad, think about it.
@stevenweir76 "I should also say that I am happily married and have a wonderful daughter, who I don't lie to about what humans know"
You mean like you lied to me about "knowing the Bible?" It is obvious from the private messages and comments that your knowledge about the bible is limited to what you obtain from atheist/secular websites.
I am not ostracizing you. I do not care about you rejecting God. But you making fun of religions and Him is immature, and the actions of a bigot.
@stevenweir76 Well, both. Think about your question. It is offensive to draw Mohammad - He is a religious figure, one adhered to by millions. It IS an offense to draw him.
Killing someone is extreme - that is of a minority of people (terrorists). The "proper" muslims (I am not an islam expert) are the ones who live their lives PROPERLY to Mohammad's values.
He himself did. Read about the Hadiths, they are a collection of saying from Muhammad, taken from his companions and wives. They're repeated quotes from people who knew him, and in order to make sure they were authentic quotes more than one person was to have heard it.
As for the Quran, it barely mentions him or his life, it is mostly a book of laws, and emphasizes on the oneness of God.
I find it disturbing that you have a daughter and are advocating hate speech.
@AtThEg00dlife - Yes, if people would kill anyone who perpetrates a wrong against an ideology which is unsubstantiated, then it needs to be addressed. You should be asking why would this make anyone angry. I am not a Muslim and I should not have to adhere to Islamic laws. Those are for Muslims, and Islam needs to realize that people can't be bullied into their ideology. It may work in majority Muslim countries, but not in the rest of the world.
I would like to ask you how did you judgment all muslims by this insulting movie due to some violence groups ?!! where is the objectivity of that !! and even you are convinced of your judgment to all muslims!! ,do you think that was mature way to express about your thoughts via this movie ?!!!!
@BeautifulMind1982 - I am not insulting anyone. You are not supposed to draw Mohammad as an idol, and I'm not Muslim, the rules don't apply to me.
You are offended by a cartoon, I'm offended by people murdering cartoonists.
It was indeed mature, I was following what I believe in solidarity with others who believe as me, freedom of expression in protest of suppression of freedom by violence.
@stevenweir76 Well,you have to understand freedom doesn't mean also to insult or mockery what is holy for the others !! don't use freedom tool to serve your side without look to the other,if you don't have any holy thing as atheistic that not mean to war the others holies! you shouldn't love Muslims or Islam that up to you but talk about that in respectful way! discus and ask ! that is your thoughts you can express but don't draw prophet Mohammed 'Peace be upon him' as a type of provocation!
@BeautifulMind1982 - Again, I'm not Muslim, your rules don't apply to me. If Allah is a god and is all-powerful, don't you think he can handle it? It may make you angry that I draw your prophet, but it makes me angry when you think you can tell me what to do, and it also makes me angry that your people kill cartoonists over nonsense and blow themselves up killing innocent people. You don't like it, too bad, I live in a free country where I am not subject to your religious law.
@stevenweir76 You didn't think it's so hard to insult other holies & prophets to be your answer simply without logical that is not your religion and that is freedom expression? you didn't know that the holies belong to religion and religion is important thing of humans life because it connected them to whom created this life and created us for this reason , religion is very holy thing for them if you insulted it as cartons or other ideas like last pop desire that mean you bluster
@stevenweir76 their safe a main human needs in life to live as eat ,drink,.ets? and all that will be nothing when you talk about freedom.. it seems as joking comparing to the result of that ,your wrong understanding of freedom expression will not kill you or bluster your safe feeling if you didn't use it in this case , , maybe you will find that hard to understand ..because there is no land gathered us in this conversation because I'm talking about religions relation
@stevenweir76 it seems childish Provocation!!And you are really missing objectivity , who is not violent that not mean he reject many teaching in Quran and that's wrong because you use the image about Islam in your mind as standard !,read the full book of Quran with discus 'Tafseer' is available in English ,That of course if you are looking the really understanding of islam and don't be just a response of what some violent do!
@BeautifulMind1982 - I am an atheist, and it is my belief that what you believe is hateful and asinine. I am not violent, but I have reached a conclusion about Islam, and it has nothing to do with the violence or hatred, or the positive aspects of people in religion. Even is Islam was beneficial to the world I would oppose it only for the fact it isn't true. People will always criticize you, and if you are sensitive to that, it may only betray your lack of faith. Think about it.
@stevenweir76 relation with humans life meaning and you are in basis don't believe of whom created it and create this life ..because you think you born for nothing !maybe if you were believe at least in cow or sun or fire as god ..will be more logical to understand what that mean but unfortunately you are material &existential person!
@BeautifulMind1982 - Science is what is of utmost importance to me, so when religions speak they are committing atrocities against what I believe, especially when theologians say that science coincides with their religion, I find rejection of truth to such a great extent and the outright lies to be the greatest crime against humanity. People who believe in God are willing to kill people, but you take offense to someone speaking out against it. Did it ever occur to you that you might be wrong?
@BeautifulMind1982 - Can you show how God was created? Things don't just exist, they require an explanation, this includes the concept of Allah. Did you ever think that if Allah were true that he wouldn't have a creator and would in fact be the ultimate atheist. That probably doesn't compute for you. So when I say Islam is based on Christianity is based on Judaism is based on primitive astrological volcano worshipers you probably don't know much about that history.
@stevenweir76 when you put your computer in the corner of your room and close your room and no one have a key for your room than you,and there is no window or port to your room than the door you already have its key , after 2 days ..you back to your room and open it of course by your key , and you found your computer on the center of room. what are the probabilities that you expect to lead your computer transition on center of room?
@stevenweir76 according to what you are believe as Atheist can you tell me who created this universe including everything.. Sky, mountains, human, atoms, the elements of earth metals and gases, celestial bodies and other planets, the laws of nature that control the universe ?
@BeautifulMind1982 - You're asking the wrong question, because if you ask who created the universe you imply there was a being behind it all. A force was all that was required, we know much of the history of the universe, because of the speed of light's limit we can actually see much of it. What you have to ask yourself to move forward is what could have created the creator, what exempts your creator from being created, if you have no answer it is special pleading, which fails logically.
@BeautifulMind1982 - So the question should be more accurately asked as to what created the universe. Then we can honestly consider all possibilities. And it appears that gravity is a result of the vacuum folding in on itself, gravity is all that is required to start this universe. The other mechanisms require study. If you want to learn where matter comes from or how life formed you have to accept the evidence. It is there, if you are capable of being honest with yourself.
@stevenweir76 ok,will change the question: what created the universe?and you said matter,be patient with me to describe me that :
1-from where came the matter?
2-after the how the matter united with vaccume or other matters to form the sun, the sky, and celestial bodies?! don't care I'm graduated from physics and chemistry department,so I have at least basic information about the scientific reasons and sure will be honest with myself with any knowledge raises doubt.
@BeautifulMind1982 - 1 We're not certain, no-one knows exactly. It came from energy, there are opossing theories that have merit and there are unforeseen possibilities. When we don't know the answer we (as scientists) do not jump to conclusions. We wait until we have more information. That's why telescopes and particle accelerators are getting bigger.
@BeautifulMind1982 - 2 - That question is answerable using observations and mathematical models. Under Gravity, the forces are formed and matter coalesces from energy. The matter becomes more complex as atoms up to the size of iron are formed within a star, once a star forms iron it goes Nova and then gains the energy to form larger atoms. This can be demonstrated using observations and only the forces we know of in the universe. We even seem to know when some forces were formed.
@stevenweir76 1- How the forces formed ? from where start this energy & how ?
2-How can you describe & prove the stability of universe happened without god force?3-how this mathematical equations prepared to control this universe in this way and whom do that?4-how "Adam" peace be upon him or the 1st human in the land arise with this perfectly model ?,is also by mathematic equations!! or how the biological science prove the natures role in this case?!!and if you belive of
@BeautifulMind1982 - 1)The forces 'formed' or rather became relevant at certain stages or energy levels of the Big Bang. I sent you a link to the rudimentary explanation, you can pursue things farther in depth or ask me questions, some of it I understand very well, other parts not so well. These answers, as always is with any answer are opinion based on observation. Everything is opinion, and when you soften the stance where supposedly someone knows everything you might begin to see my position.
stevenweir76@ Bing Bang theory still doesn't give answers, nothing will created Coincidence, look at diagram temperature level was 0 at the beginning then start to be 10*32 and the time start account from this moment to be 10*-43 seconds but still the question from where did come the original of energy to be in heat form ? That opposed the principle of cause for every effect, there is a cause! It's obvious ..like there is reason to move your computer from the corner to be on the centel room!
@BeautifulMind1982 - The fact that matter self-creates and annihilates leads some scientists to believe that this could happen with other forms of matter such as exotic matter, anti matter, and/or dark matter/energy. We believe there is a cause, but the potential was always there whether you believe the metaphysical or physical as the true nature of our universe. I choose the physical because I see nothing metaphysical, people talk about metaphysics without proof.
wich there is a mind thinking to let someone removes hinges, or pick the locks!This energy can't appear like that coincidence! This theory maybe truth but That needs creator ..creative mind..wich tell now the humen mind still unable to find it ..that means there is a creator has a power to apply this theory!
@BeautifulMind1982 - You said, "which there is a mind thinking to let someone removes hinges, or pick the locks!" but I also said my recollection could be incorrect, and of all explanations for the universe the one that further complicates it is to suppose a God, this is not something I can take on supposition, for me, the statement that there is a God has absolutely no evidence.
@stevenweir76 Even you think your recollection was incorrect that mean your mind enter to the process so sure in this case maybe you weren't move it! in this question all your probabilities lead to say there is a mind to do that if wasn't someone do it , it was you & you didn't relocation it !-also as you said if you weren't home ,why you will call the police ?! that because you fear someone has entered your home. you believe the presence of mind to move the desk and you can't said the desk
@BeautifulMind1982 - You should stop with this whole straw-man argument or this room analogy that you have. I understand your difficulty in understanding how life came to be the way that it is. Do you want to stay confused and never understand our origin or keep beating this dead horse? Yes if there was no reason for the desk to move I would think there was an intruder. Are you comparing naturally coalescing elements and evolving life to a desk? These examples demonstrate nothing.
Even you didn't find my example Convincing to you ,but the disk still constant object …the kinetic energy of the object was zero to move it need work..the work appears by someone effects to pull it then we find the desk in the center of the room .most of physics laws were probabilities to applied in the natural or vise to find the conclusion the law ,don't contempt any example as long as it serves the idea and what was the beginning idea of universe ?! it was very small
@BeautifulMind1982 - No-one knows the origin of the universe. The Koran does not explain what we see in this universe and is not an authority on physics. You again, presuppose a god (Allah) which comes from nothing. First try to imagine nothing, the vacuum was even something, and the universe is apparent and exists. All of existence did not necessarily need a cause, just what we observe today does, and that cause appears to be natural. Why? Because there is much we can figure out.
if we use imagine that will be easily , imagine has no limit , but isn't imagine a type of metaphysics or not ?!
yes, we can apply what you said "All of existence did not necessarily need a cause" just when we talk about our believes ,Allah the only one appears without cause effect..because he is a creator, and the first heat comes without cause because material is your creator.
@BeautifulMind1982 - You are putting the cart before horse. Prove Allah exists before you attribute the entire universe to him. You can't argue the miraculous without miraculous evidence. Well, I guess you can, I just won't believe you. The energy that was the beginning of the universe may have been inevitable, may not have needed a cause. You have closed your mind to these arguments despite having no evidence for your improbable position.
Allah is exist ,simply because the unity of pantheism mean there is one god because the similarity of laws in universe starting from atoms ending to galaxy mean there is god.Allah is appearance without cause because Allah is creator. and you also closed your mind when you think these arguments like the energy in the beginning of the universe have not needed a cause!!,you are opposite the energy law which energy can't appear from nothing.you have no evidence for this energy cause
@BeautifulMind1982 - You see a universe with physical laws, that are never broken, and you have never witnessed such, yet Allah supposedly can break these laws at will, but never does, and somehow you have a reason to believe all of it, because you read it in an ancient book?
If there is Allah, or God, or Vishnu, or whatever, then that God would also need a cause, how could such a being come to be? We (scientists) see human intelligence as the product of evolution, you say it needs no cause?
creator doesn't need cause to be exist ,if he appear by a cause he will not be creator,as you believe material haven't needed cause to exist. my creator has a perfect mind to creat this universe.
@BeautifulMind1982 - If your creator has a perfect mind, why is life and nothing in existence perfect. And from where did your perfect creator come from, what caused it to exist?
Life isn't perfect, people aren't perfect, nothing is perfect.
there is something in this universe appear as begining without cause I believe of him, he is the creator and not need cause to appear because no logic to all this universe appear without any plan.
Life is perfect as a life for test , the perfect you are looking for will not be in this life .
@BeautifulMind1982 - Why is it logical to believe that a being as complex as Allah would be would always exist or come form on its own. The answer is that there isn’t one, and there is a pile of counter-evidence against Allah by means of sciences which explains much of our origin without invoking the supernatural.
I am not looking for perfect, I find that desire obsessive and misguided.
if there is something come from nothing is more logic to be allah for me , let's see what sciences prove in this point and see what that came from nothing!
@BeautifulMind1982 - Every theologian involes the argument that Allah or God or Vishnu is somehow exempt from having a cause, they call it the initial cause, but require no reason for that being's existence. It is a religious fallacy that science knows very well. There is not a single scientist who says that everything came from nothing. We are reserved where you have decided, without evidence, to declare you are right. Now prove it, demonstrate it.
@BeautifulMind1982 - If you found that science has found that matter spontaneously forms from the vacuum would you change your position. If not, demonstrate where Allah came from. No being of intelligence always was. It is pure nonsense to say so. Especially considering you have no proof of that or that being's existence.
@BeautifulMind1982 - As for saying there is a cause, probably. As for explaining what that cause is, you haven't even begun. You have made suppositions and have no proof whatsoever. Why do I fight religion. Because people are willing to believe without ever knowing why, and in their hubris they commit acts of atrocity.
@stevenweir76 read what i wrote discussing about law of casulity then ask what ,then ask , you didn't undrestood or read what i disscus.that clear from your question!
@BeautifulMind1982 - Seeing as you have no desire to learn the scientific means of the beginning of the universe and of life. Let's say for a second that you are right.
i advice you to read & understand deeply Quran & sunah strong hadith ,don't make your decision about religion according what the others saying ,read first the source & make your dissection,although your problem is complex, you already don't believe of god! even if we said you find truth in any religion you will not believe ,till to see him. you are really in long lost situation.
@BeautifulMind1982 - I have read enough of the Koran to know that this was not written for me, it does not speak truth when I know things are true upon which the Koran disagrees. I use all the evidence in making my decisions, not just the words of a book, written by a warlord 1300 years ago.
@BeautifulMind1982 - 65:12 Allah it is who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof. The commandment cometh down among them slowly, that ye may know that Allah is Able to do all things, and that Allah surroundeth all things in knowledge. The seven heavens refers to the known planets and the sun and the moon at the time. And it is inaccurate. How many mistakes do you need to see the truth? I have many more.
The sun sets in a puddle, humans come from gushing fluid, etc, etc.
who told you:seven heavens refers to the known planets and the sun and the moon at the time!!!. is not planet it reference to seven heavens made by god till the throne of god , planets name are mention already in Quran and Allah if he was mean planets of this 7 heavens was said 7 planets !!he mean 7 heavens layers & 7 layers of earth .no need to fabrication the meaning of verses !!
@BeautifulMind1982 - The 7 heavens were a Pagan belief, it is where we get the names for the days of the week, and why the number 7 is prevalent in Judaism.
You sure don't know a lot about history, especially if you think Mohammad coined the phrase 7 heavens and what about the 7 Earths are there creatures and torture devices below us. Is this literal or metaphor? You don't even know, you ignore evidence, which will always lead you from the truth.
your discuss of 7 heavens wrong! no hadith and tafseer books said what you are talking about! even you find similarity in number will still for us is not the original book and not our book, it's already not right way to discuss quran using others holy books!!!really it's first time I see someone accuse holy book and said it discussed like that in another holy book
@BeautifulMind1982 - I know that the 7 heavens portrayed in the Koran are different than the ones used by Pagans, but that is the origin, did Pagans magically know how many layers were in the heavens, no, they got lucky with a guess. And what of the seven Earths. Why don't you mention them? They sound stupid and help disprove Islam, that's why.
@BeautifulMind1982 - There are no creatures living under the Earth, no torture devices, there are many layers just within the crust depending on how you classify them.
@BeautifulMind1982 - Only a child would believe everything they are told, day in and day out. You were brainwashed as a child, and you still think as a child, that your ways are correct and everyone else must be wrong.
@stevenweir76 What I understand from you how we can apply exist of god by the law of causality or everything can't came from nothing ,but if we look to the law of cause and requirement to apply will be a factor of time exist. If we back to the universe beginning will see it beginning at a specified time,as long as we could determined the time that mean cause law is applied of universe appear,
@stevenweir76 which mean there is a cause of this universe and we can't apply the cause law of that cause of universe because there was no time before this time of universe beginning .that mean there is a mastermind able to do all that without cause of his presence.
@BeautifulMind1982 - Tell me exactly how you reached the conclusion and what evidence you used to demonstrate that there is a mastermind behind all of existence. To me, it seems as though the universe is mostly vacuous or chaotic and we happen to be living in a solar system where life has had time to evolve. A pocket of refuge from the otherwise lethal universe. There is no design to this. Animals need to eat other animals to survive because resources are scarce.
for me there is Infinite power which is not subject to any laws,the infinite power is god,because even universe seem chaotic but this chaos organized,this step by step of universe starting from begining till the full form of life appear till now,by chance can't find Integrated system of life,by first primitive cell appear by spontaneous can't find all this creatures,protein does not create by spontaneous it need faith of god existance instead of time waste to proof the contrary!
@BeautifulMind1982 - You see a universe with physical laws, that are never broken, and you have never witnessed such, yet Allah supposedly can break these laws at will, but never does, and somehow you have a reason to believe all of it, because you read it in an ancient book?
If there is Allah, or God, or Vishnu, or whatever, then that God would also need a cause, how could such a being come to be? We (scientists) see human intelligence as the product of evolution, you say it needs no cause?
I understand too how is difficult to you understand there is Mental cause in the beginning of the universe ,also it's understanding how much you tired your minds seeking of the truth and keep on trying, maybe one day will be as Einstein and realize that the relation of the laws & the Unity of purpose in many theories appear the orgin and the control should be by one god!
@BeautifulMind1982 - The laws of physics are only the laws of how humans should interpret existence as we know it, they aren't laws set forth by a deity as far as anyone knows. Maybe one day we will conclude there is a God. But that day is not today. We don't know and praying 5 times a day to an insignificant part of the cosmos like it's at the center of the universe is not conducive to understanding. Just like praying.
@stevenweir76 move by itself in same time you believe of materiality that made the universe and the material has not mind! my question here was not proof for miracle, who's believe of god presence does not mean that doesn't have mind and any unknowing issues explained by miracle!
@BeautifulMind1982 - Examine the evidence, you don't need analogies or conjecture to describe the universe. There is evidence of things happening. Like if there were muddy footprints in the room where the desk moved to use your metaphor. Just look at what id there. Understand why scientists think what we do. There is reason for it, it is not divine revelation or mere conjecture but verifiable evidence and sound theories that are open to scrutiny.
@BeautifulMind1982 - Even if there were a God, how would you know its nature? Don't bother arguing Islam is better than other religions and is somehow true when the other religions aren't, there is no proof of that. All you have are statements made by one individual, who I think made a lot of mistakes, no holy book, in my view, is divinely inspired, they all have too many simple mistakes.
@stevenweir76 If you doubt of the presence of god , that mean you didn't denied his presence! Some of god nature are described in holy book as life, science, the ability, hearing, vision, compassion, pride, wisdom, height. I believe that god presence by looking around me of this universe! I understand there is creator and creature , I understand I didn't appear in this life for eat, sleep ,learn ,discover ,enjoying and then disappear. I am in life for more strong reason.
@BeautifulMind1982 - Don't linger on death, live your life, discover it, revel in it. Don't hold back because some book says you should. That book was written by a man, just like you or I, what evidence do you have to the contrary.
Questioning what you believe is not bad, it is how we learn about our universe. You think there is a creator, I don't. You have bias, I don't. One of us is right and one is wrong. What could we use to find the truth?
@stevenweir76 Islam religion is true to me & the last Complementary religion by looking to the other religions, the 3 Abrahamic religions are sequence .i.e. the source or basis was one " Allah' even Jew & Christian don't believe on third one 'Islam' because they are not believe on prophet Mohamed 'PBUH" Although Allah informed Jewish & Christians that he will send his last messenger and they have to follow him but they denied prophet mohamed,as Muslim I believe of Islam because simply Mohammed
@BeautifulMind1982 - There is no such thing as something being objective which is only true to you. If the mechanism that created the universe is the same one for you and for me, then it is impossible that we are both correct. You can either seek the truth or continue to delude yourself. Belief does not change reality, only your perception of it.
@stevenweir76 is the last messenger sent from Allah and should follow him, why in our Quran that send by Allah talks about Jew & Christian religions and their prophets ?!! as Muslims we believe in 1st Religion was Jew and Allah sent Prophet Moses 'PBUH ',2nd was Prophet Jesus 'PBUH',3rd and last Prophet and Messenger Mohamed 'PBUH'. and I wonder your questions about the religions because the atheistic problem is more worst than just which religion is true.if was your problem the confused
@BeautifulMind1982 - Christians were told Jesus would return, not that there would be another prophet, and Jews were told the messiah would be named Ismael. The Koran does not follow. There is no evidence for Jesus' existence, he appears to be an agglomeration of previous myths, same as Moses. This is the basis for the God of Abraham, the basis of Islam, if you can't prove these, you are skating on thin ice.
The problem in christians & jewish the religions men control what they want , I wonder how there are many and different holy books in one religions ! I wonder how the father 'GOD' and prophet be in same level!even Issa 'Jessus' PBUH is creature like other creatures and they look to him as god wich mean as creator , what this creatures has same characters of creator & what this creator feel pain. what this creator wich can't prevent the pain of himself !
@BeautifulMind1982 - You said, "The problem in christians & jewish the religions men control what they want" why do you suppose those authorities like Ayatollahs and Imams are any different? What makes Islam exempt? You are being hypocritical. Mohammad was just a guy, with misconceptions like any other human. You worship his words as Christians and Jews worship Jesus and Moses. Moses was false and Jesus was false but you use their words as evidence for your religion. It's insane.
In Islam there is no admit to imam for instruments of forgiveness!!why should i recognition to someone human like me for forgiveness from Allah? what the privilege he have toward god than me? because he is read holy book more than me ? because he refuse all life Lusts for god ?! who decide he is better than me ? and who knows about his dark side? Mohamed PBUH is prophet sent from Allah to inform humans , Quran is a save book teaching of Islam Muslim , i worship
@BeautifulMind1982 - Yes I know you worship a book, that doesn't register with you because you think a book written over a millennium ago that contains mistakes and misgivings about the universe and morality is somehow still pertinent. It isn't. Mohammad was a liar, either by delusion or outright deceit. Do you think these teachings brought peace or war? Do you care?
I didn't worship the book i worship the god who sent this book,wars happened by Excesses of people to each others. if you apply the book as you should wasn't happen a lot of wars .if everyone do his own duties, worships, and live his life. There was no wars. be respectful when you talking about my prophet ..why i should be patient of your disrespect !but maybe you will understand what the meaning & place of the prophets ..but maybe you will when happened of dear people to you
@BeautifulMind1982 - As for worshiping the God who sent the book, your circular argument starts from that book, for without that book what could you pretend to know? You say it is the God you worship, but that God does not exist without that book. It is just a book and that's what believers like you just don't get. Written by a human, over a thousand years ago. If a person presented you with such a book today and made such bold statements, would you believe them? Only if you're superstitious.
@BeautifulMind1982 - As for worshiping the God who sent the book, your circular argument starts from that book, for without that book what could you pretend to know? You say it is the God you worship, but that God does not exist without that book. It is just a book and that's what believers like you just don't get. Written by a human, over a thousand years ago. If a person presented you with such a book today and made such bold statements, would you believe them? Only if you're superstitious.
@BeautifulMind1982 - The only reason you think that Islam is the last religion is because it was written in your book. New religions and cults have sprouted up since then, like Mormonism, and Scientology. Religion is as volatile as life itself, changing and taking a life of its own, evolving to survive the political and intellectual climate. If you had met Mohammad, I suspect you would not revere him so.
for you , did you can continue talk to me in respect way if i insult your father & mother as you do!! did you know at least the decency of talks ?! MOHAMMED PBUH IS NOT LIER. If you don't believe him that not make him lier !!!
@BeautifulMind1982 - I am not just calling Mohammad a liar, I am calling him an opportunistic liar with a level of amorality akin to Genghis Khan. Many of the rules in the Koran are for tribal warfare and for how to lay off of Mohammad's wives. It also tells you how to determine your enemies, effectively separating humanity. Some prophet.
@stevenweir76 i worship Allah not Mohamed PBUH if he was want us worship him he was said i'm the god!! "forgive me allah" Muslims appreciate & love Mohamed PBUH very much because he is the selective human from god and he lighting our path to islam.and we know Mohamed PBUH human as us human and the ability is for Allah only,when we pray and want something we ask Allah ,we don't ask Mohamed PBUH for forgiveness, we don't ask imam for forgiveness, no intercessor in the life between me &Allah!!
@BeautifulMind1982 - How can you prove Mohammad was somehow special, because of the book written by Mohammad. I'm now laughing out loud because you can't see how foolish that is. You can't speak to Allah, you are talking to no-one but yourself. What answer does Allah give you that could not come from within you? Don't you see, haven't you figured it out yet? Allah is everything you have made him out to be, and nothing else.
the book was not written by him .Quran is a messages from Allah recorded in book. it's one book, Mohamed the prophet from Allah, if he was the written why he wasn't said i'm the god for more controlling, Mohamed PBUH was said i'm human like you, don't worship me ..worship god !
,
if I didn’t see Allah but I feel of him .you can feel of pain if someone flap your hand but you can’t see the pain ,you can’t see the wind but you can feel it .
@BeautifulMind1982 - Read Surah 63:4. Why does Allah speak in a tense where he refers to Allah in the 3rd person. It's like me saying. Lo! Steven will go to the grocery store because he is merciful.
The proper tense is Lo! I will go to the store because I merciful. And this is inconsistent in the Koran. Sometimes it is first person, sometimes third, but there is always another person between you and this so called Allah. And humans can tell stories, especially when there is power to gain.
@BeautifulMind1982 - Read Surah 63:4. Why does Allah speak in a tense where he refers to Allah in the 3rd person. It's like me saying. Lo! Steven will go to the grocery store because he is merciful.
The proper tense is Lo! I will go to the store because I merciful. And this is inconsistent in the Koran. Sometimes it is first person, sometimes third, but there is always another person between you and this so called Allah. And humans can tell stories, especially when there is power to gain.
@stevenweir76 Koran not being modeled on one style of speech; but change its method of speech-depending on the context, including suits - very carefully - appropriate the meaning and nature of the target audience and desired effect in many formals ,in your example that say God form in absence, expression of notice Any notice majesty of divinity; it walking most would speak the first person on the blessings and attributes, and the wonders of his ability and his actions, or that Reducing of his
@BeautifulMind1982 - The Koran is supposed to be the words of Allah, and keeping the tense right is crucial. Are these the words of Allah or Mohammad? If the tense where Allah is spoken of by Mohammad in the third person are supposed to be literal, why can't Allah speak for himself, why can't your Allah speak to us directly instead of through these imperfect human vessels.
Every prophet in history is a liar or delusional. I stand by that.
@stevenweir76 This is way from the divine self is not as human to use a speech as you are talking with me as example-speech between creator and creature is different , the way of Arabic grammar in speak is different , there are a positions of speack in respect way or in familiar way ,for intimidation or reported ,to talk about the events…etc ,the speech from allah will not be in same level as we talking to anyone. there is way to keep his level as creator.
@BeautifulMind1982 - I don’t have rules for speech, if I communicate effectively and am understood then my words serve their purpose. You can't talk to Allah, any more than I can talk to Santa Claus.
@BeautifulMind1982 - If Allah talks to you, what has he ever told you that you could not know on your own. Ask Allah to explain why scientists believe there is dark matter/energy, then ask him to explain what it is.
When you fail miserably you might realize that you are talking to yourself and not a divine creator, and if you can tell the world what dark matter/dark energy are, then you will have proved Allah true. Otherwise, I will continue to believe you are talking to yourself.
i'm not a prophets to received an angel from allah for revelation of your questions , unless I'm non-regular creature as prophets ,but I'm regular creature i try to be more close to my god as I can but all what I can do is talk to him, pray & see his answers by events in my life.
@BeautifulMind1982 - If you admit you are regular, then you admit you are fallible which means you and your beliefs may be wrong.
I like honesty, I really appreciate it. Most believers are not this honest.
Now tell me how a prayer could ever fail. Your answers always come as "Yes", "No" or "Wait". Pray to a loaf of bread, same response. Your prayer will more likely be answered the less you ask for, true for Allah, true for the loaf of bread.
@stevenweir76 level as god of conversational in the speech says, "I am merciful" "; To see how the dwindling speech of creator Allah will be saying toward creatures, also nature of the target of speech tells the events , but if you look other speech appear using "I", as saying:(48) Announce,(O Muhammad) unto My slaves that verily I am the Forgiving, the Merciful,
@stevenweir76 the speech way here was "I" because the target of speech changed informing to Mohammed to inform creatures like when I said :tell my friends that I'm tired",Quran is rich of arabic langauge grammar and much of non-arab muslims speakers learn arabic just to read quran with arabic grammer. the translator quran not comparing to the beauty of the original quran in arabic.
@BeautifulMind1982 - As for your interpretation, are the words for Mohammad to be ignored then? Why separate the two? Mohammad was clearly speaking to everyone else when he said, lay off my women. Why would Allah care about Mohammad's personal life? Do you notice that these arguments keep getting more complex and lead farther and farther away from the truth. You are apologizing for the Koran, when you should be finding out whether or not it is true.
@BeautifulMind1982 - The verses for rules about Mohammad's women. As a woman I do not understand you respect a man who treats women like lesser creatures and property. I mean the Koran compares women to dirt. That isn't right, you know it, I know it. Rules for Mohammad’s wives – read Surah 33:28-55
@stevenweir76 No, Mohamed PBUH didn't treat his wives like lesser creatures and property, I want you to ask yourself any owned has choice to decide?in this verses Allah said to Mohamed to let their wives to decide if they want to choice joys life & to leave him, to let any one of them take her divorce without hard feeling or to choice to stay with him& satisfy him& allah & win in second life .The reason of this verses because some of his wives annoy him in somehow for more money than he can .
@BeautifulMind1982 - Your apology for the verses which Mohammad speaks about his wives is inept and does not address the points I made. He treats women like chattel. These rules are only for Mohammad's wives specifically, he sounds like a territorial man, which he was. My problem is that in a book which should be timeless, these silly rules apply only during the time of Mohammad.
Mohammad was insecure, as would any man be if he had that many wives.
@stevenweir76 I didn't apology for verses ,I discus you what the verses said in the first 2 verses because it is the most 2 vreses talking about Mohamed PBUH & his wives relation status as what you claim more than the other verses number you mention ,I think you didn't read the verses or you mention the wrong verse you want ,do you realize the number you gave me of verses was from 28 till 55 that very long and talk about many issues like Mohamed PBUH wives as different women than other
@BeautifulMind1982 - I read the verses, and you have to be insane to think that women deserve such a denigrated position in society. Don't you think your life is worth that of a man? Don't you believe yourself equal? The rules for Mohammad's wives shouldn't be there at all. They were written by a man who was weak in his lust and called upon his primitive shaman status to assure no one would touch "his" women. Women are not chattle, they are people.
@BeautifulMind1982 - Mohammad promises his wives they will get a reward from Allah for being good, and double the punishment for betrayal. These are the actions of a cult leader. These laws have no meaning other than to control the actions of others. It places your prophet above the others. These are not the actions of a good man or a humble man. These are the actions of a pig. Allah says it is lawful for Mohammad to marry as many as he wants. Give me a break. It's obvious. Read more stories.
also is normal from you to see the double punishment for betray &ignored the double wage!!!and that appear your look way in subjects,you just take what appear to you suitable with your view & serve it !! prophet mohamed's PBUH wives are not like all woman they represent THE PROPHET,they are "mothers" to all the faithful muslims they more better than other Muslims women did you know Daowod PBUH had 100 women & Suleiman PBUH more than this number !
@BeautifulMind1982 - I have nothing against polygamy per se. Where I have a problem is with a God who treats people unequally. This is not the actions of the just or righteous. But it is what a scoundrel would say.
Did you know Allah allow to Mohammed marry any numbers of women and he marry all his women for reasons !!study islam deeply,don't focused only what serve your side!!be more objective and balanced
@BeautifulMind1982 - Yeah, I know Mohammad married lots of women, that's what cult leaders do, even 6 year olds were okay to marry, having a 5 year old daughter I find the practice revolting. And if by study the Koran you mean ignore evidence then the answer is no. I am studying it, and it keeps sounding dumber and more evil the more that I read it.
@stevenweir76 Mohamed PBUH married Aisha bint Abu Bakr &she was 9 years old and she was complete female, in that time women marry around 9 till 12 and if she became 12 it's strange to be unmarried .i see you always apply or compare civil way and habits with this old simple life period ! if there is anything about that were unbelievers of Qurish accused him,as usual they were always accusation him.
interesting.
DADLANDSHOW 5 months ago
@DADLANDSHOW - It's fascinating from a point of view that people mired in traditions and respect them without actually understanding why they do. I can't figure it out. What I'm wondering is if people can abandon their beliefs and foster a sense of community based upon nothing more than a shared experience without invoking their superstitions. Love your channel, BTW.
stevenweir76 5 months ago
Now you deny I even made a point. You've just confirmed that I am wasting my time on you, thank you for that ,so like i said, have a good day sir.
helix4811 6 months ago
@helix4811 - If you think that I should bow down to Islam and pretend like it has any merit whatsoever then yes, you have been wasting your time. Good day to you too, sir.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
Which means that I really am wasting my time with you. So let's drop it and I say, have a good day sir.
helix4811 6 months ago
It seems I'm wasting my time with you seeing as you won't listen to others who may disagree. Don't bother replying unless it is to say that there is a chance I'm right and you could be wrong. Until then, you will be ignored.
helix4811 6 months ago
Comment removed
helix4811 6 months ago
hate speech is not free speech.
helix4811 6 months ago
@helix4811 - I am not hating anyone, I am hating a religious dogma, and if you could stand back for a second you'd realize that you notion of Allah is tied way to closely to your ego.
There's a reason Allah always agrees with you. It's because you have made him up in your mind.
This video in no way offends the doctrine of Islam as I am neither Muslim, because your rules do not apply to me, and because the spirit of that doctrine goes against human idolization, which you have forgotten.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76
Why do you assume I'm religious or a muslim? I am an agnostic, nothing more, nothing less.
The reason why it's hate speech is because you KNOW it will offend someone, and you purposefully drew it to get that reaction. It isn't about free speech, it is about hurting someones feelings.
Islamic laws may not apply to you, but that doesn't mean you should ridicule it. Criticism and insulting are two different things.
helix4811 6 months ago
@helix4811 - This isn't hate speech. Where does it or I say I hate anyone?
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76
Hate speech doesn't necessarily mean that you have to say that you hate someone. There are different forms of it. You're using actions to show your hatred, you know it will offend someone, yet you still did it.
A bully doesn't have to pick on a child or call him/her names, all he/she has to do is spread rumors in order to hurt the child's feelings.
helix4811 6 months ago
@helix4811 - Offending someone isn't hate speech, it's a normal consequence of opposing views. I find the suppression of free speech through violent threats far more offensive than any cartoon I could draw. If you don't like that, tough. If the show were on the other foot, and I said that your religious tolerance undermined my scientific view and therefor it's offensive to me, should you be kept silent. What if I used violence to endorse to endorse that view, what then?
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76
Also, you did get one thing right about me, I don't idolize humanity, why? because I see no reason too. The fact that you assume I'm even religious shows me that you're egotistical. I may come from an Islamic background and may refer to my self as a muslim, but it would be wrong to assume I'm religious in anyway. I am neither arrogant enough to say some form of divine being is fake, and I'm not foolish to 100% believe in it.
helix4811 6 months ago
@helix4811 - So you lie to pollsters about your religion? I always knew the numbers were skewed by people like you, but I never met someone who openly admitted it. If you don't believe in Islam anymore you are an apostate, which in many Islamic countries is punishable by death. Like everything else in Islam, including speaking freely.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76
And here you are avoiding my points and attacking me personally. It's just sad that you can't defend your point so you HAVE to attack me personally.
I don't lie about anything, referring to myself as a muslim is a matter of convenience, when people ask me if i believe in religion, i am honestly answer and tell them I am not religious.
helix4811 6 months ago
@helix4811 - I don't think I've attacked you personally in any way yet. Your ego should not get tied up in your world view. If you allow that, it blurs your objectivity. When faced with arguments which you do not agree, threatening to disengage form the conversation will not alter my perspective in any way. It demonstrates both your bigotry and your inability to consider the opposing view.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76
finally, your entire comment showed me that you justify your actions by assumptions and self-reasoning. Everything you have said is similar to what I would expect coming from a preacher of religion, not by an Atheist.
helix4811 6 months ago
@helix4811 - Maybe I did jump to the conclusion that you were Muslim, when you weren't. I fail to see how that affects any of my other statements. You were, after all, defending Islam.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76
I wasn't defending Islam, I was simply sharing my opinion and telling you about certain facts, like the Hadiths. If that happens to defend Islam indirectly, then so be it.
helix4811 6 months ago
@helix4811 - As for the Hadiths, they betray what a barbaric individual Mohammad was. They don't defend Islam, they betray it. So, since I don't agree with you on any single thing you can proceed to ignore me in perpetuity.
Thank-you.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@helix4811 - Oh, you're right. I hate people who oppress the free speech of others through fear. You got me.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76
Why do you seem to believe that Muslims stifle free speech? It is a wrong assumption, and that is all it is, an assumption.
helix4811 6 months ago
@helix4811 - If you identify yourself as a Muslim to anyone, and you are not a Muslim (on who believes the tenets of Islam) then you are a liar. Pretty simple. I'm not trying to offend you when I say that, but when you can't be honest about who and what you are you should do some retrospection and find out why. I could call myself something that I am not, but what possible good reason could I have for that?
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76 - I meant introspection, not retrospection. Sorry. But in retrospect, you haven't given a single good reason for me to cease opposing Islam, a barbaric religion where extreme violence and bigotry run mainstream and moderates are silenced by the delusional to defend a belief that is indefensible to any rational human being.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@helix4811 - Give me one good reason to not defend the rights of free speech for the sensitivities of any belief and I will cease to do so.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76
your entire rant consists of the usual anti-Islamic propaganda. As for free speech, I'm not saying that you shouldn't defend it, I'm saying that there is a difference between free speech and hate speech.
Since you haven't even answered any of my points and have proceeded to change the subject, I'm assuming you can't answer me
helix4811 6 months ago
@helix4811 - While I may be anti-Islam, that doesn't equate to hate speech. It equates to disdain for a superstitious mentality which mires a civilization in the dark ages. You ask me to answer points but you haven't made any. You say that what I say is hate speech, but it isn't, it is simply that I disagree with the extremists of Islam that would silence anyone simply for criticism. Answer my criticism with logic or reason, or please, shut the fuck up.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
some people do come from monkeys then you whoppa.
philos4r 6 months ago
@Vapethis - Definitely.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
Well, this is really immature. Insulting a religion adhered to by millions on the actions of a minority (terrorists) is the character of a bigot. Hope you have a good life, because I do not see you making any friends, or even having one girlfriend on your characteristics and values.
Have a nice day.
EZdrifter21 11 months ago
@EZdrifter21 - I am not Muslim and their rules are for them not to draw Mohammad, it was initially intended so that Mohammad would not be an idol. What I do does not go against the Islam, but that is what angry Muslims think.
Pick your battles, your concern is not for Islam, it is only to put egg on my face. As a Christian, you should know better than to say thou fool.
stevenweir76 11 months ago
@stevenweir76 "it is only to put egg on my face. "
Well, couldn't one turn this around and say "your only concern is to mock, insult, degrade and deface religion and religious figures" ? As an atheist, you should know that you spend more time talking about God than a Christian.
EZdrifter21 11 months ago
@EZdrifter21 - I should also say that I am happily married and have a wonderful daughter, who I don't lie to about what humans know. But I see the Christianity in you for certain, was it Jesus who said, "Ostracize those who don't believe as you." or was that your minister. Heck, you might have come up with that all on your own.
So tell me, which is more offensive, drawing a cartoon of Mohammad, or killing someone who draws a cartoon of Mohammad, think about it.
stevenweir76 11 months ago
@stevenweir76 "I should also say that I am happily married and have a wonderful daughter, who I don't lie to about what humans know"
You mean like you lied to me about "knowing the Bible?" It is obvious from the private messages and comments that your knowledge about the bible is limited to what you obtain from atheist/secular websites.
I am not ostracizing you. I do not care about you rejecting God. But you making fun of religions and Him is immature, and the actions of a bigot.
EZdrifter21 11 months ago
@stevenweir76 Well, both. Think about your question. It is offensive to draw Mohammad - He is a religious figure, one adhered to by millions. It IS an offense to draw him.
Killing someone is extreme - that is of a minority of people (terrorists). The "proper" muslims (I am not an islam expert) are the ones who live their lives PROPERLY to Mohammad's values.
EZdrifter21 11 months ago
@EZdrifter21 - Who determines what Mohammad's proper values are? Have you ever read the Koran?
stevenweir76 9 months ago
@stevenweir76
He himself did. Read about the Hadiths, they are a collection of saying from Muhammad, taken from his companions and wives. They're repeated quotes from people who knew him, and in order to make sure they were authentic quotes more than one person was to have heard it.
As for the Quran, it barely mentions him or his life, it is mostly a book of laws, and emphasizes on the oneness of God.
I find it disturbing that you have a daughter and are advocating hate speech.
helix4811 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@stevenweir76 "I should also say that I am happily married and have a wonderful daughter"
Good for you. Sorry I called you out on that one, I went to far. Forgive me.
EZdrifter21 11 months ago
alrite dude. i believe in free speech and all. but i dont c y u would do this. honostly how does this make the world anymore peaceful?
i mean all your doing is making ppl angry if anything. wheres the good in that.
AtThEg00dlife 1 year ago
@AtThEg00dlife - Yes, if people would kill anyone who perpetrates a wrong against an ideology which is unsubstantiated, then it needs to be addressed. You should be asking why would this make anyone angry. I am not a Muslim and I should not have to adhere to Islamic laws. Those are for Muslims, and Islam needs to realize that people can't be bullied into their ideology. It may work in majority Muslim countries, but not in the rest of the world.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
muhammad shit be upon him
SciencesTv 1 year ago
Happy Draw Mohammad Day.
When Religious Violence perpetrated by radical Muslims ends so will I stop drawing Mohammad.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
I would like to ask you how did you judgment all muslims by this insulting movie due to some violence groups ?!! where is the objectivity of that !! and even you are convinced of your judgment to all muslims!! ,do you think that was mature way to express about your thoughts via this movie ?!!!!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - I am not insulting anyone. You are not supposed to draw Mohammad as an idol, and I'm not Muslim, the rules don't apply to me.
You are offended by a cartoon, I'm offended by people murdering cartoonists.
It was indeed mature, I was following what I believe in solidarity with others who believe as me, freedom of expression in protest of suppression of freedom by violence.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 Well,you have to understand freedom doesn't mean also to insult or mockery what is holy for the others !! don't use freedom tool to serve your side without look to the other,if you don't have any holy thing as atheistic that not mean to war the others holies! you shouldn't love Muslims or Islam that up to you but talk about that in respectful way! discus and ask ! that is your thoughts you can express but don't draw prophet Mohammed 'Peace be upon him' as a type of provocation!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Again, I'm not Muslim, your rules don't apply to me. If Allah is a god and is all-powerful, don't you think he can handle it? It may make you angry that I draw your prophet, but it makes me angry when you think you can tell me what to do, and it also makes me angry that your people kill cartoonists over nonsense and blow themselves up killing innocent people. You don't like it, too bad, I live in a free country where I am not subject to your religious law.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 You didn't think it's so hard to insult other holies & prophets to be your answer simply without logical that is not your religion and that is freedom expression? you didn't know that the holies belong to religion and religion is important thing of humans life because it connected them to whom created this life and created us for this reason , religion is very holy thing for them if you insulted it as cartons or other ideas like last pop desire that mean you bluster
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 their safe a main human needs in life to live as eat ,drink,.ets? and all that will be nothing when you talk about freedom.. it seems as joking comparing to the result of that ,your wrong understanding of freedom expression will not kill you or bluster your safe feeling if you didn't use it in this case , , maybe you will find that hard to understand ..because there is no land gathered us in this conversation because I'm talking about religions relation
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Islam itself is a easily corruptible and violent religion, because you are not violent you reject many teachings in the Koran.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 it seems childish Provocation!!And you are really missing objectivity , who is not violent that not mean he reject many teaching in Quran and that's wrong because you use the image about Islam in your mind as standard !,read the full book of Quran with discus 'Tafseer' is available in English ,That of course if you are looking the really understanding of islam and don't be just a response of what some violent do!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - I am an atheist, and it is my belief that what you believe is hateful and asinine. I am not violent, but I have reached a conclusion about Islam, and it has nothing to do with the violence or hatred, or the positive aspects of people in religion. Even is Islam was beneficial to the world I would oppose it only for the fact it isn't true. People will always criticize you, and if you are sensitive to that, it may only betray your lack of faith. Think about it.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 relation with humans life meaning and you are in basis don't believe of whom created it and create this life ..because you think you born for nothing !maybe if you were believe at least in cow or sun or fire as god ..will be more logical to understand what that mean but unfortunately you are material &existential person!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Science is what is of utmost importance to me, so when religions speak they are committing atrocities against what I believe, especially when theologians say that science coincides with their religion, I find rejection of truth to such a great extent and the outright lies to be the greatest crime against humanity. People who believe in God are willing to kill people, but you take offense to someone speaking out against it. Did it ever occur to you that you might be wrong?
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Can you show how God was created? Things don't just exist, they require an explanation, this includes the concept of Allah. Did you ever think that if Allah were true that he wouldn't have a creator and would in fact be the ultimate atheist. That probably doesn't compute for you. So when I say Islam is based on Christianity is based on Judaism is based on primitive astrological volcano worshipers you probably don't know much about that history.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 when you put your computer in the corner of your room and close your room and no one have a key for your room than you,and there is no window or port to your room than the door you already have its key , after 2 days ..you back to your room and open it of course by your key , and you found your computer on the center of room. what are the probabilities that you expect to lead your computer transition on center of room?
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 befor you think of probabilities you should knowing or remember :
1-no one have a key for the door than you.
2-the door not broken or no way to break it .
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - I would think the hinges were removed, the locks were picked, or my recollection was incorrect.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 according to what you are believe as Atheist can you tell me who created this universe including everything.. Sky, mountains, human, atoms, the elements of earth metals and gases, celestial bodies and other planets, the laws of nature that control the universe ?
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - You're asking the wrong question, because if you ask who created the universe you imply there was a being behind it all. A force was all that was required, we know much of the history of the universe, because of the speed of light's limit we can actually see much of it. What you have to ask yourself to move forward is what could have created the creator, what exempts your creator from being created, if you have no answer it is special pleading, which fails logically.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - So the question should be more accurately asked as to what created the universe. Then we can honestly consider all possibilities. And it appears that gravity is a result of the vacuum folding in on itself, gravity is all that is required to start this universe. The other mechanisms require study. If you want to learn where matter comes from or how life formed you have to accept the evidence. It is there, if you are capable of being honest with yourself.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 ok,will change the question: what created the universe?and you said matter,be patient with me to describe me that :
1-from where came the matter?
2-after the how the matter united with vaccume or other matters to form the sun, the sky, and celestial bodies?! don't care I'm graduated from physics and chemistry department,so I have at least basic information about the scientific reasons and sure will be honest with myself with any knowledge raises doubt.
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - 1 We're not certain, no-one knows exactly. It came from energy, there are opossing theories that have merit and there are unforeseen possibilities. When we don't know the answer we (as scientists) do not jump to conclusions. We wait until we have more information. That's why telescopes and particle accelerators are getting bigger.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - 2 - That question is answerable using observations and mathematical models. Under Gravity, the forces are formed and matter coalesces from energy. The matter becomes more complex as atoms up to the size of iron are formed within a star, once a star forms iron it goes Nova and then gains the energy to form larger atoms. This can be demonstrated using observations and only the forces we know of in the universe. We even seem to know when some forces were formed.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 1- How the forces formed ? from where start this energy & how ?
2-How can you describe & prove the stability of universe happened without god force?3-how this mathematical equations prepared to control this universe in this way and whom do that?4-how "Adam" peace be upon him or the 1st human in the land arise with this perfectly model ?,is also by mathematic equations!! or how the biological science prove the natures role in this case?!!and if you belive of
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - 1)The forces 'formed' or rather became relevant at certain stages or energy levels of the Big Bang. I sent you a link to the rudimentary explanation, you can pursue things farther in depth or ask me questions, some of it I understand very well, other parts not so well. These answers, as always is with any answer are opinion based on observation. Everything is opinion, and when you soften the stance where supposedly someone knows everything you might begin to see my position.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
stevenweir76@ Bing Bang theory still doesn't give answers, nothing will created Coincidence, look at diagram temperature level was 0 at the beginning then start to be 10*32 and the time start account from this moment to be 10*-43 seconds but still the question from where did come the original of energy to be in heat form ? That opposed the principle of cause for every effect, there is a cause! It's obvious ..like there is reason to move your computer from the corner to be on the centel room!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - The fact that matter self-creates and annihilates leads some scientists to believe that this could happen with other forms of matter such as exotic matter, anti matter, and/or dark matter/energy. We believe there is a cause, but the potential was always there whether you believe the metaphysical or physical as the true nature of our universe. I choose the physical because I see nothing metaphysical, people talk about metaphysics without proof.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
wich there is a mind thinking to let someone removes hinges, or pick the locks!This energy can't appear like that coincidence! This theory maybe truth but That needs creator ..creative mind..wich tell now the humen mind still unable to find it ..that means there is a creator has a power to apply this theory!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - You said, "which there is a mind thinking to let someone removes hinges, or pick the locks!" but I also said my recollection could be incorrect, and of all explanations for the universe the one that further complicates it is to suppose a God, this is not something I can take on supposition, for me, the statement that there is a God has absolutely no evidence.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 Even you think your recollection was incorrect that mean your mind enter to the process so sure in this case maybe you weren't move it! in this question all your probabilities lead to say there is a mind to do that if wasn't someone do it , it was you & you didn't relocation it !-also as you said if you weren't home ,why you will call the police ?! that because you fear someone has entered your home. you believe the presence of mind to move the desk and you can't said the desk
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - You should stop with this whole straw-man argument or this room analogy that you have. I understand your difficulty in understanding how life came to be the way that it is. Do you want to stay confused and never understand our origin or keep beating this dead horse? Yes if there was no reason for the desk to move I would think there was an intruder. Are you comparing naturally coalescing elements and evolving life to a desk? These examples demonstrate nothing.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
Even you didn't find my example Convincing to you ,but the disk still constant object …the kinetic energy of the object was zero to move it need work..the work appears by someone effects to pull it then we find the desk in the center of the room .most of physics laws were probabilities to applied in the natural or vise to find the conclusion the law ,don't contempt any example as long as it serves the idea and what was the beginning idea of universe ?! it was very small
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
and what was the beginning idea of universe ?! it was very small space +time+ temperature+ atoms ..till formed this whole universe!!!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - No-one knows the origin of the universe. The Koran does not explain what we see in this universe and is not an authority on physics. You again, presuppose a god (Allah) which comes from nothing. First try to imagine nothing, the vacuum was even something, and the universe is apparent and exists. All of existence did not necessarily need a cause, just what we observe today does, and that cause appears to be natural. Why? Because there is much we can figure out.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
if we use imagine that will be easily , imagine has no limit , but isn't imagine a type of metaphysics or not ?!
yes, we can apply what you said "All of existence did not necessarily need a cause" just when we talk about our believes ,Allah the only one appears without cause effect..because he is a creator, and the first heat comes without cause because material is your creator.
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - You are putting the cart before horse. Prove Allah exists before you attribute the entire universe to him. You can't argue the miraculous without miraculous evidence. Well, I guess you can, I just won't believe you. The energy that was the beginning of the universe may have been inevitable, may not have needed a cause. You have closed your mind to these arguments despite having no evidence for your improbable position.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
Allah is exist ,simply because the unity of pantheism mean there is one god because the similarity of laws in universe starting from atoms ending to galaxy mean there is god.Allah is appearance without cause because Allah is creator. and you also closed your mind when you think these arguments like the energy in the beginning of the universe have not needed a cause!!,you are opposite the energy law which energy can't appear from nothing.you have no evidence for this energy cause
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - You see a universe with physical laws, that are never broken, and you have never witnessed such, yet Allah supposedly can break these laws at will, but never does, and somehow you have a reason to believe all of it, because you read it in an ancient book?
If there is Allah, or God, or Vishnu, or whatever, then that God would also need a cause, how could such a being come to be? We (scientists) see human intelligence as the product of evolution, you say it needs no cause?
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
creator doesn't need cause to be exist ,if he appear by a cause he will not be creator,as you believe material haven't needed cause to exist. my creator has a perfect mind to creat this universe.
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - If your creator has a perfect mind, why is life and nothing in existence perfect. And from where did your perfect creator come from, what caused it to exist?
Life isn't perfect, people aren't perfect, nothing is perfect.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
there is something in this universe appear as begining without cause I believe of him, he is the creator and not need cause to appear because no logic to all this universe appear without any plan.
Life is perfect as a life for test , the perfect you are looking for will not be in this life .
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Why is it logical to believe that a being as complex as Allah would be would always exist or come form on its own. The answer is that there isn’t one, and there is a pile of counter-evidence against Allah by means of sciences which explains much of our origin without invoking the supernatural.
I am not looking for perfect, I find that desire obsessive and misguided.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
if there is something come from nothing is more logic to be allah for me , let's see what sciences prove in this point and see what that came from nothing!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Every theologian involes the argument that Allah or God or Vishnu is somehow exempt from having a cause, they call it the initial cause, but require no reason for that being's existence. It is a religious fallacy that science knows very well. There is not a single scientist who says that everything came from nothing. We are reserved where you have decided, without evidence, to declare you are right. Now prove it, demonstrate it.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
Comment removed
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - If you found that science has found that matter spontaneously forms from the vacuum would you change your position. If not, demonstrate where Allah came from. No being of intelligence always was. It is pure nonsense to say so. Especially considering you have no proof of that or that being's existence.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - As for saying there is a cause, probably. As for explaining what that cause is, you haven't even begun. You have made suppositions and have no proof whatsoever. Why do I fight religion. Because people are willing to believe without ever knowing why, and in their hubris they commit acts of atrocity.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 read what i wrote discussing about law of casulity then ask what ,then ask , you didn't undrestood or read what i disscus.that clear from your question!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Seeing as you have no desire to learn the scientific means of the beginning of the universe and of life. Let's say for a second that you are right.
How did the universe begin?
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
i advice you to read & understand deeply Quran & sunah strong hadith ,don't make your decision about religion according what the others saying ,read first the source & make your dissection,although your problem is complex, you already don't believe of god! even if we said you find truth in any religion you will not believe ,till to see him. you are really in long lost situation.
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - I have read enough of the Koran to know that this was not written for me, it does not speak truth when I know things are true upon which the Koran disagrees. I use all the evidence in making my decisions, not just the words of a book, written by a warlord 1300 years ago.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - 65:12 Allah it is who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof. The commandment cometh down among them slowly, that ye may know that Allah is Able to do all things, and that Allah surroundeth all things in knowledge. The seven heavens refers to the known planets and the sun and the moon at the time. And it is inaccurate. How many mistakes do you need to see the truth? I have many more.
The sun sets in a puddle, humans come from gushing fluid, etc, etc.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
who told you:seven heavens refers to the known planets and the sun and the moon at the time!!!. is not planet it reference to seven heavens made by god till the throne of god , planets name are mention already in Quran and Allah if he was mean planets of this 7 heavens was said 7 planets !!he mean 7 heavens layers & 7 layers of earth .no need to fabrication the meaning of verses !!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - The 7 heavens were a Pagan belief, it is where we get the names for the days of the week, and why the number 7 is prevalent in Judaism.
You sure don't know a lot about history, especially if you think Mohammad coined the phrase 7 heavens and what about the 7 Earths are there creatures and torture devices below us. Is this literal or metaphor? You don't even know, you ignore evidence, which will always lead you from the truth.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
your discuss of 7 heavens wrong! no hadith and tafseer books said what you are talking about! even you find similarity in number will still for us is not the original book and not our book, it's already not right way to discuss quran using others holy books!!!really it's first time I see someone accuse holy book and said it discussed like that in another holy book
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - I know that the 7 heavens portrayed in the Koran are different than the ones used by Pagans, but that is the origin, did Pagans magically know how many layers were in the heavens, no, they got lucky with a guess. And what of the seven Earths. Why don't you mention them? They sound stupid and help disprove Islam, that's why.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
that not need disscus !!i7 layers under of earth
you need also proof that there is 7 layers of earth?
i have
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - There are no creatures living under the Earth, no torture devices, there are many layers just within the crust depending on how you classify them.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - In other words, there are many more than 7 layers. And those layers don't contain demons or Djinns.
You show me a Djinn, then I'll believe you.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Only a child would believe everything they are told, day in and day out. You were brainwashed as a child, and you still think as a child, that your ways are correct and everyone else must be wrong.
You are wrong, you just haven't learned it yet.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 What I understand from you how we can apply exist of god by the law of causality or everything can't came from nothing ,but if we look to the law of cause and requirement to apply will be a factor of time exist. If we back to the universe beginning will see it beginning at a specified time,as long as we could determined the time that mean cause law is applied of universe appear,
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 which mean there is a cause of this universe and we can't apply the cause law of that cause of universe because there was no time before this time of universe beginning .that mean there is a mastermind able to do all that without cause of his presence.
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Tell me exactly how you reached the conclusion and what evidence you used to demonstrate that there is a mastermind behind all of existence. To me, it seems as though the universe is mostly vacuous or chaotic and we happen to be living in a solar system where life has had time to evolve. A pocket of refuge from the otherwise lethal universe. There is no design to this. Animals need to eat other animals to survive because resources are scarce.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
for me there is Infinite power which is not subject to any laws,the infinite power is god,because even universe seem chaotic but this chaos organized,this step by step of universe starting from begining till the full form of life appear till now,by chance can't find Integrated system of life,by first primitive cell appear by spontaneous can't find all this creatures,protein does not create by spontaneous it need faith of god existance instead of time waste to proof the contrary!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - You see a universe with physical laws, that are never broken, and you have never witnessed such, yet Allah supposedly can break these laws at will, but never does, and somehow you have a reason to believe all of it, because you read it in an ancient book?
If there is Allah, or God, or Vishnu, or whatever, then that God would also need a cause, how could such a being come to be? We (scientists) see human intelligence as the product of evolution, you say it needs no cause?
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 by the way you can't said there is a creator of the disk if you didn't see the disk
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
I understand too how is difficult to you understand there is Mental cause in the beginning of the universe ,also it's understanding how much you tired your minds seeking of the truth and keep on trying, maybe one day will be as Einstein and realize that the relation of the laws & the Unity of purpose in many theories appear the orgin and the control should be by one god!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - The laws of physics are only the laws of how humans should interpret existence as we know it, they aren't laws set forth by a deity as far as anyone knows. Maybe one day we will conclude there is a God. But that day is not today. We don't know and praying 5 times a day to an insignificant part of the cosmos like it's at the center of the universe is not conducive to understanding. Just like praying.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 move by itself in same time you believe of materiality that made the universe and the material has not mind! my question here was not proof for miracle, who's believe of god presence does not mean that doesn't have mind and any unknowing issues explained by miracle!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Examine the evidence, you don't need analogies or conjecture to describe the universe. There is evidence of things happening. Like if there were muddy footprints in the room where the desk moved to use your metaphor. Just look at what id there. Understand why scientists think what we do. There is reason for it, it is not divine revelation or mere conjecture but verifiable evidence and sound theories that are open to scrutiny.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Even if there were a God, how would you know its nature? Don't bother arguing Islam is better than other religions and is somehow true when the other religions aren't, there is no proof of that. All you have are statements made by one individual, who I think made a lot of mistakes, no holy book, in my view, is divinely inspired, they all have too many simple mistakes.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 If you doubt of the presence of god , that mean you didn't denied his presence! Some of god nature are described in holy book as life, science, the ability, hearing, vision, compassion, pride, wisdom, height. I believe that god presence by looking around me of this universe! I understand there is creator and creature , I understand I didn't appear in this life for eat, sleep ,learn ,discover ,enjoying and then disappear. I am in life for more strong reason.
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Don't linger on death, live your life, discover it, revel in it. Don't hold back because some book says you should. That book was written by a man, just like you or I, what evidence do you have to the contrary.
Questioning what you believe is not bad, it is how we learn about our universe. You think there is a creator, I don't. You have bias, I don't. One of us is right and one is wrong. What could we use to find the truth?
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 Islam religion is true to me & the last Complementary religion by looking to the other religions, the 3 Abrahamic religions are sequence .i.e. the source or basis was one " Allah' even Jew & Christian don't believe on third one 'Islam' because they are not believe on prophet Mohamed 'PBUH" Although Allah informed Jewish & Christians that he will send his last messenger and they have to follow him but they denied prophet mohamed,as Muslim I believe of Islam because simply Mohammed
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - There is no such thing as something being objective which is only true to you. If the mechanism that created the universe is the same one for you and for me, then it is impossible that we are both correct. You can either seek the truth or continue to delude yourself. Belief does not change reality, only your perception of it.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 is the last messenger sent from Allah and should follow him, why in our Quran that send by Allah talks about Jew & Christian religions and their prophets ?!! as Muslims we believe in 1st Religion was Jew and Allah sent Prophet Moses 'PBUH ',2nd was Prophet Jesus 'PBUH',3rd and last Prophet and Messenger Mohamed 'PBUH'. and I wonder your questions about the religions because the atheistic problem is more worst than just which religion is true.if was your problem the confused
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Christians were told Jesus would return, not that there would be another prophet, and Jews were told the messiah would be named Ismael. The Koran does not follow. There is no evidence for Jesus' existence, he appears to be an agglomeration of previous myths, same as Moses. This is the basis for the God of Abraham, the basis of Islam, if you can't prove these, you are skating on thin ice.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
The problem in christians & jewish the religions men control what they want , I wonder how there are many and different holy books in one religions ! I wonder how the father 'GOD' and prophet be in same level!even Issa 'Jessus' PBUH is creature like other creatures and they look to him as god wich mean as creator , what this creatures has same characters of creator & what this creator feel pain. what this creator wich can't prevent the pain of himself !
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - You said, "The problem in christians & jewish the religions men control what they want" why do you suppose those authorities like Ayatollahs and Imams are any different? What makes Islam exempt? You are being hypocritical. Mohammad was just a guy, with misconceptions like any other human. You worship his words as Christians and Jews worship Jesus and Moses. Moses was false and Jesus was false but you use their words as evidence for your religion. It's insane.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
In Islam there is no admit to imam for instruments of forgiveness!!why should i recognition to someone human like me for forgiveness from Allah? what the privilege he have toward god than me? because he is read holy book more than me ? because he refuse all life Lusts for god ?! who decide he is better than me ? and who knows about his dark side? Mohamed PBUH is prophet sent from Allah to inform humans , Quran is a save book teaching of Islam Muslim , i worship
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Yes I know you worship a book, that doesn't register with you because you think a book written over a millennium ago that contains mistakes and misgivings about the universe and morality is somehow still pertinent. It isn't. Mohammad was a liar, either by delusion or outright deceit. Do you think these teachings brought peace or war? Do you care?
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
I didn't worship the book i worship the god who sent this book,wars happened by Excesses of people to each others. if you apply the book as you should wasn't happen a lot of wars .if everyone do his own duties, worships, and live his life. There was no wars. be respectful when you talking about my prophet ..why i should be patient of your disrespect !but maybe you will understand what the meaning & place of the prophets ..but maybe you will when happened of dear people to you
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - As for worshiping the God who sent the book, your circular argument starts from that book, for without that book what could you pretend to know? You say it is the God you worship, but that God does not exist without that book. It is just a book and that's what believers like you just don't get. Written by a human, over a thousand years ago. If a person presented you with such a book today and made such bold statements, would you believe them? Only if you're superstitious.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - As for worshiping the God who sent the book, your circular argument starts from that book, for without that book what could you pretend to know? You say it is the God you worship, but that God does not exist without that book. It is just a book and that's what believers like you just don't get. Written by a human, over a thousand years ago. If a person presented you with such a book today and made such bold statements, would you believe them? Only if you're superstitious.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
of caurse i will not belive him because the last religion sent from allah is islam... not because is writing by human!!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - The only reason you think that Islam is the last religion is because it was written in your book. New religions and cults have sprouted up since then, like Mormonism, and Scientology. Religion is as volatile as life itself, changing and taking a life of its own, evolving to survive the political and intellectual climate. If you had met Mohammad, I suspect you would not revere him so.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
for you , did you can continue talk to me in respect way if i insult your father & mother as you do!! did you know at least the decency of talks ?! MOHAMMED PBUH IS NOT LIER. If you don't believe him that not make him lier !!!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - I am not just calling Mohammad a liar, I am calling him an opportunistic liar with a level of amorality akin to Genghis Khan. Many of the rules in the Koran are for tribal warfare and for how to lay off of Mohammad's wives. It also tells you how to determine your enemies, effectively separating humanity. Some prophet.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 i worship Allah not Mohamed PBUH if he was want us worship him he was said i'm the god!! "forgive me allah" Muslims appreciate & love Mohamed PBUH very much because he is the selective human from god and he lighting our path to islam.and we know Mohamed PBUH human as us human and the ability is for Allah only,when we pray and want something we ask Allah ,we don't ask Mohamed PBUH for forgiveness, we don't ask imam for forgiveness, no intercessor in the life between me &Allah!!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - How can you prove Mohammad was somehow special, because of the book written by Mohammad. I'm now laughing out loud because you can't see how foolish that is. You can't speak to Allah, you are talking to no-one but yourself. What answer does Allah give you that could not come from within you? Don't you see, haven't you figured it out yet? Allah is everything you have made him out to be, and nothing else.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
the book was not written by him .Quran is a messages from Allah recorded in book. it's one book, Mohamed the prophet from Allah, if he was the written why he wasn't said i'm the god for more controlling, Mohamed PBUH was said i'm human like you, don't worship me ..worship god !
,
if I didn’t see Allah but I feel of him .you can feel of pain if someone flap your hand but you can’t see the pain ,you can’t see the wind but you can feel it .
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Read Surah 63:4. Why does Allah speak in a tense where he refers to Allah in the 3rd person. It's like me saying. Lo! Steven will go to the grocery store because he is merciful.
The proper tense is Lo! I will go to the store because I merciful. And this is inconsistent in the Koran. Sometimes it is first person, sometimes third, but there is always another person between you and this so called Allah. And humans can tell stories, especially when there is power to gain.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Read Surah 63:4. Why does Allah speak in a tense where he refers to Allah in the 3rd person. It's like me saying. Lo! Steven will go to the grocery store because he is merciful.
The proper tense is Lo! I will go to the store because I merciful. And this is inconsistent in the Koran. Sometimes it is first person, sometimes third, but there is always another person between you and this so called Allah. And humans can tell stories, especially when there is power to gain.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 Koran not being modeled on one style of speech; but change its method of speech-depending on the context, including suits - very carefully - appropriate the meaning and nature of the target audience and desired effect in many formals ,in your example that say God form in absence, expression of notice Any notice majesty of divinity; it walking most would speak the first person on the blessings and attributes, and the wonders of his ability and his actions, or that Reducing of his
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - The Koran is supposed to be the words of Allah, and keeping the tense right is crucial. Are these the words of Allah or Mohammad? If the tense where Allah is spoken of by Mohammad in the third person are supposed to be literal, why can't Allah speak for himself, why can't your Allah speak to us directly instead of through these imperfect human vessels.
Every prophet in history is a liar or delusional. I stand by that.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 This is way from the divine self is not as human to use a speech as you are talking with me as example-speech between creator and creature is different , the way of Arabic grammar in speak is different , there are a positions of speack in respect way or in familiar way ,for intimidation or reported ,to talk about the events…etc ,the speech from allah will not be in same level as we talking to anyone. there is way to keep his level as creator.
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - I don’t have rules for speech, if I communicate effectively and am understood then my words serve their purpose. You can't talk to Allah, any more than I can talk to Santa Claus.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
you don't have because you are not creator ,the meaings are diffrent when the relation become between creature & creator.
i can talk to allah whenever & everytime i want.don't say i can't talk to him because you don't belive of him!!
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - If Allah talks to you, what has he ever told you that you could not know on your own. Ask Allah to explain why scientists believe there is dark matter/energy, then ask him to explain what it is.
When you fail miserably you might realize that you are talking to yourself and not a divine creator, and if you can tell the world what dark matter/dark energy are, then you will have proved Allah true. Otherwise, I will continue to believe you are talking to yourself.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
i'm not a prophets to received an angel from allah for revelation of your questions , unless I'm non-regular creature as prophets ,but I'm regular creature i try to be more close to my god as I can but all what I can do is talk to him, pray & see his answers by events in my life.
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - If you admit you are regular, then you admit you are fallible which means you and your beliefs may be wrong.
I like honesty, I really appreciate it. Most believers are not this honest.
Now tell me how a prayer could ever fail. Your answers always come as "Yes", "No" or "Wait". Pray to a loaf of bread, same response. Your prayer will more likely be answered the less you ask for, true for Allah, true for the loaf of bread.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 level as god of conversational in the speech says, "I am merciful" "; To see how the dwindling speech of creator Allah will be saying toward creatures, also nature of the target of speech tells the events , but if you look other speech appear using "I", as saying:(48) Announce,(O Muhammad) unto My slaves that verily I am the Forgiving, the Merciful,
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 the speech way here was "I" because the target of speech changed informing to Mohammed to inform creatures like when I said :tell my friends that I'm tired",Quran is rich of arabic langauge grammar and much of non-arab muslims speakers learn arabic just to read quran with arabic grammer. the translator quran not comparing to the beauty of the original quran in arabic.
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - As for your interpretation, are the words for Mohammad to be ignored then? Why separate the two? Mohammad was clearly speaking to everyone else when he said, lay off my women. Why would Allah care about Mohammad's personal life? Do you notice that these arguments keep getting more complex and lead farther and farther away from the truth. You are apologizing for the Koran, when you should be finding out whether or not it is true.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
I don't understand which verse you talking about ", lay off my women.", show me the complete verse to undrestand what you are talking about.
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - The verses for rules about Mohammad's women. As a woman I do not understand you respect a man who treats women like lesser creatures and property. I mean the Koran compares women to dirt. That isn't right, you know it, I know it. Rules for Mohammad’s wives – read Surah 33:28-55
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 No, Mohamed PBUH didn't treat his wives like lesser creatures and property, I want you to ask yourself any owned has choice to decide?in this verses Allah said to Mohamed to let their wives to decide if they want to choice joys life & to leave him, to let any one of them take her divorce without hard feeling or to choice to stay with him& satisfy him& allah & win in second life .The reason of this verses because some of his wives annoy him in somehow for more money than he can .
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Your apology for the verses which Mohammad speaks about his wives is inept and does not address the points I made. He treats women like chattel. These rules are only for Mohammad's wives specifically, he sounds like a territorial man, which he was. My problem is that in a book which should be timeless, these silly rules apply only during the time of Mohammad.
Mohammad was insecure, as would any man be if he had that many wives.
Do you really think these words divine?
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 I didn't apology for verses ,I discus you what the verses said in the first 2 verses because it is the most 2 vreses talking about Mohamed PBUH & his wives relation status as what you claim more than the other verses number you mention ,I think you didn't read the verses or you mention the wrong verse you want ,do you realize the number you gave me of verses was from 28 till 55 that very long and talk about many issues like Mohamed PBUH wives as different women than other
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - I read the verses, and you have to be insane to think that women deserve such a denigrated position in society. Don't you think your life is worth that of a man? Don't you believe yourself equal? The rules for Mohammad's wives shouldn't be there at all. They were written by a man who was weak in his lust and called upon his primitive shaman status to assure no one would touch "his" women. Women are not chattle, they are people.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
ok, explain to me verse by verse and how you understood them and keep your conclusion for last .
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Mohammad promises his wives they will get a reward from Allah for being good, and double the punishment for betrayal. These are the actions of a cult leader. These laws have no meaning other than to control the actions of others. It places your prophet above the others. These are not the actions of a good man or a humble man. These are the actions of a pig. Allah says it is lawful for Mohammad to marry as many as he wants. Give me a break. It's obvious. Read more stories.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
also is normal from you to see the double punishment for betray &ignored the double wage!!!and that appear your look way in subjects,you just take what appear to you suitable with your view & serve it !! prophet mohamed's PBUH wives are not like all woman they represent THE PROPHET,they are "mothers" to all the faithful muslims they more better than other Muslims women did you know Daowod PBUH had 100 women & Suleiman PBUH more than this number !
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - I have nothing against polygamy per se. Where I have a problem is with a God who treats people unequally. This is not the actions of the just or righteous. But it is what a scoundrel would say.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76
Did you know Allah allow to Mohammed marry any numbers of women and he marry all his women for reasons !!study islam deeply,don't focused only what serve your side!!be more objective and balanced
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago
@BeautifulMind1982 - Yeah, I know Mohammad married lots of women, that's what cult leaders do, even 6 year olds were okay to marry, having a 5 year old daughter I find the practice revolting. And if by study the Koran you mean ignore evidence then the answer is no. I am studying it, and it keeps sounding dumber and more evil the more that I read it.
stevenweir76 1 year ago
@stevenweir76 Mohamed PBUH married Aisha bint Abu Bakr &she was 9 years old and she was complete female, in that time women marry around 9 till 12 and if she became 12 it's strange to be unmarried .i see you always apply or compare civil way and habits with this old simple life period ! if there is anything about that were unbelievers of Qurish accused him,as usual they were always accusation him.
BeautifulMind1982 1 year ago