So, Mormons teach that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate gods. But the Bible says differently. Isaiah 44:6, 8 says, “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God....Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.’ ” [or the NASB says: “I know of none”]
The bottom line is all people who spend their time trying to argue the "meaningless difference" in any church's doctrine instead of spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the reality of his atoning sacrifice and how living gospel he taught brings us closer to our Father in Heaven,.really is wasting time.I mean really to argue over a "different Jesus"..Is ridiculous beyond reason. There's only one Savior and all things necessary for me to gain salavation are in him.WHAT ELSE MATTERS?
boo,boo... I think you better READ your bible again... Jesus clear denotes a ...difference between HE and HIS father..Both part of a Godhead....but, not the same individual... READ IT..GO FOR IT...it's all there...I am sorry for my "sassy" nature..but, REALLY ...who in the world was Jesus talking to? praying to? calling out to? Who did he mean when he said that no one could get to the Father except through him? good grief? READ YOUR BIBLE..and pray about it..
man some of the thinking and the words brought out by especially the backyard professor really are lacking with integrity, what I am trying to say is there is no backing for the belief system. We have archeology and we have Jesus' words to back up what we say, the book of mormon has never been used for archeology or any purpose brought up by it.
sorry sir: I respect you for a human being, I do not dis you in anyway, but please see that it is really not the same Jesus. You believe in Jesus, but the fact is Mormons are very proud and will not let go their pride of life to let Jesus take over. My question is this, if it is the same Jesus then are you letting the Cross of Christ be your focal point in your life or is your religion the focal point. from what I see it is the later.
@MrBigbear6718... Respectfully ... I am LDS and used to be Catholic...I am worshiping the exact same Jesus as I was before. There's no difference between my Jesus, the Catholic Jesus or the non-denominational Christian Jesus...I do see many people, who call themselves Christian, spending more time professing they are Christian while bashing their brothers and sisters, than living a Christian lifestyle. The LDS Jesus doesn't teach that...maybe you're right.
@waterplo12 I am pretty sure the scriptures make that clear. We are all Spirit Children of Heavenly Father and as the scriptures say...Jesus is his only BEGOTTEN IN THE FLESH... Jesus is God of the OLD TESTAMENT , the GREAT JEHOVAH...yet, he has a Father..(which he clearly pointed out on many occasions)....I am not sure how you handle your spiritual journey...but, does it really matter if we are or aren't spirit brothers and sisters of Jesus ?
@nannykiki You say that the scripture makes it clear that we are all children of God. I am wondering if you can provide scripture where this is true. Romans 8:14-17 talk about how people lead by the spirit are children of God through adoption. If we were adopted we are not all children of God from the beginning. As for if it matters, it matters in that we should want to seek the truth and know the truth about God. It also takes away the reverance of who Jesus really is. Our God and savior.
@waterplo12 I am sorry you are so set on in the worldly way of "proving" through scripture...scripture that has been taken from and translated a zillion times..each time taking away from it's original form...The same reliance upon your own intelligence(like those who denied Christ) instead of seeking clarification from the Holy Spirit..but, if you must have something to ponder... Why is it significant that the term "only begotten son" is used instead of ONLY SON?
@nannykiki As stated below we are called to search scripture daily for truth as the Bereans did in Acts 17:11. From this verse it is not wordly but is the standard we are to use to see if something is true. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good." Proverbs 30:5-6: "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."
@waterplo12 ...boy, you do have it bad...lol..If you HONESTLY believe we have the BIBLE in it's original form , anywhere on this planet... I've got Ocean front property in Las Vegas to sell you.... We already know the books chosen were NOT SELECTED by the apostles or Jesus Christ... I mean ..REALLY... Get real. That is why he left the Holy Ghost with us...as a gift ..to verify all things ....
@nannykiki The Bible has more manuscript evidence to back up what is said than any other work of antiquity. No one has the origonal doccuments so we look at the manuscript evidence. There are around 5,000 Greek manuscripts, 10,000 latin, and 9,000 others dating 100 to 300 years after the originals. If we compare that to other ancient documents Plato has 7 copies- 1200 year gap, titus 20 copies-1000yr gap. F. F. Bruce: "There is no body of ancient literature in the world which (Continue reading)
@nannykiki (Continued from above) enjoys such a wealth of good attestation as the New Testament." William F. Albright: "Thanks to the Qumran discoveries, the New Testament proves to be in fact what it was formerly believed to be: the teaching of Christ and his immediate followers circa.25 and circa. 80 AD." We have Quotes from Early Churchs fathers. Of the four Gospels alone there arre 19,368 citations from Early chruch Fathers. While there has been 150,000 varients found 99% hold (Continue)
@nannykiki (...) virtually no significants. Examples missing letters or reverse word orders ("Christ Jesus" instead "Jesus christ"). About 50 varients have significants but do not affect Christian doctrine or moral commandments. To a practical certainty 99% of the original text can be reconstructed from the manuscript evidence. Most importantly I trust Isaiah 40:8 "...the word of our God shall stand for ever"
@waterplo12 ..You are so funny. The only entity that can verify the truth to me is the Holy Ghost...you can ramble until you turn blue in the face.... I already know who God the Father is and who is chosen, beloved ONLY BEGOTTEN Son , Jesus Christ...who came here atoned for our sins and taught us all things we need to know... I know that salvation is only found through him and I know he left his Spirit to be with us .. I know my Savior lives...I owe him everything.. PEACE.
@nannykiki So first you attack my character and I bring you evidence for the reliability of the Bible and you change the subject to how to determine truth. How did the Bereans determine what was truth? By a feeling or by searching God's word? 7. Acts 17:11: "These were more noble minded that those is Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so." (Continue below)
@nannykiki (coninued from above) After being kicked out of Thessalonica Paul and Silas went to Berea and start to preach the Gospel. These people had never heard it before or seen Paul or Silas before. Did they kneel down to pray to ask for knowledge whether it is true? In Acts 17:11 we see that the Bereans searched the Scriptures daily to see if to see if what Paul and Silas were saying was true. The Word of God is the standard they used, not emotions, to see if something is true.
@nannykiki Feelings that you feel even though they may feel true must be tested against the word of God. If it contradicts what God haas already said it cannot be true.
@waterplo12 .It's not my feelings. I read it . The words are there some people knit pick them and flip them upside down.I read them, ponder them, pray about them and then the Holy Spirit tells me,for you to say that MAN can read and interpret the BIBLE without the SPIRIT is definitely NOT what we are told to do in the Bible. That is what is wrong with the world today..many a man has taken his supposed literal interpretation and many have followed it , never seeking verification of the Spirit.
@nannykiki "for you to say that MAN can read and interpret the BIBLE without the SPIRIT" Not what I was saying. The Bible is the word of God and being his words guides Believers. As a new creature in Christ believers are given a new heart and his spirit is placed in believers to guide them. To deferentiate between his spirit and other spirits we can view God's words that have already been spoken and given to us in the Bible and his spirit gives us eyes to see and ears to hear.
@nannykiki We agree to a certain extent. Since we have God's word and the Bible and believers who have accepted Christ as their Lord and savior can use the God's word in the Bible as a bench mark for what they feel they are being told be the holy spirit to see if it is true. Just like the Bible can be used in this way to see if what is in the Book of Mormon, D&C and Pearl of Great Price is true. Just like the Bereans. God's word is everlasting and beautiful. God bless.
@waterplo12 exactly .I am not one to accept anything at face value..I've put the King James version of the Bible, Book of Mormon, D&C & the Pearl of Great Price and all questions related to their content to the test.. seeking "meaning and truthfulness" through the power of the only one who can truly clarify. I promise if you seek to know, accepting what the Lord has to say through the power of the Holy Ghost..dropping all you know and becoming as a little child..YOU WILL GET THE SAME ANSWERS !
@nannykiki "scripture that has been taken from and translated a zillion times..each time taking away from it's original form" This presupposes that we don't have the origonal Greek version and all the manuscript to support that we have the origonal form. If we have questions of translation in the English form we could go back to the Greek. Isaiah 40:8: "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever." You can compare Isaiah 40:8 to 1 Peter 1:23-25.
@waterplo12 (here you go) Matthew 6: 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: "Our" Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. .In Philippians 4:20 Now unto God and "our" Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Thessalonians 3:11 Now God himself and "our" Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you. Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God " our" Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
@nannykiki From scripture we know there is only one true God (Deut 6:4, Isaiah 43:10-11, Isaiah 44:6, 8, Isaiah 45:5-6, Isaiah 45:22, and Psalm 96:5. There is only one entity or being of God. We see from the Bible there are three different persons given the essence of God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit. From scripture we see Jesus is eternal and is our creator (John 1:1-4, 14; Isaiah 9:6; John 8:58; 1 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 13:8; Colossians 1:16-17). (...Continued reading post that follows)
@nannykiki (Continued from above) Philippians 2:6:11 we see Jesus humbled himself. Since we know that Jesus is eternal and is our creator he cannot be the literal "spirit child" of a Father God but that they are of the same being or essence. Jesus humbling himself prayed to the father and gave the glory to him. "Being in the very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, talking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness"
@waterplo12 Drop the pride, read the Book of Mormon , take the missionary discussions..seek the truth...earnestly through sincere searching and prayer (not debate, trying to show you are smart or something..Heavenly Father really doesn't care about shows...He wants you to ask him..not yourself) ..and I promise..you will see....the truths will emerge before you like never before...it all becomes so simple..because it comes from the SOURCE.
part 2: to get bogged down in meaningless debate with use of the intelligence of man ..totally distracts from the Spirit and not the way Jesus taught... stick to the gospel.... Jesus has a FATHER...he clearly called out to Him...He clearly came to testify of His Father and give Glory to Him... It's all in the bible...It's not hidden..
@nannykiki We are called to search the scriptures are the standard for truth as the Bereans did in Acts 17:11. From scripture we see that Jesus has eternally existed as God and is our creator (John 1:1-4, 14; Isaiah 9:6; John 8:58; 1 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 13:8; Colossians 1:16-17).
@waterplo12 yes, you are called to search the scriptures and to use the counsel with regard to understanding them that is given in James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. (The problem with those who get caught up in debating scripture is the time is never taken to seek the meaning as "little children".,..MAN assumes they are smart enough to interpret the scripture...never asking...
@nannykiki We are not just called to search scripture but we use it as our standard of truth as the Bereans. It is interesting that you called it worldly above. James 1:5 is in the context of trials and temptations.
Each church thinks their church is the right one. Then they start using the old blame game saying gays are the downfall of society or women's right to choose will destroy society. Then some of them are pitted against each other like the Mormons and the Evangelicals. It just goes on and on and on and is so incredibly regressive it's laughable; yet it's not laughable because it is seriously sad and tragic. This is how wars begin. We need progressive positive discipleship not fearmongering.
..Viewers can go to this youtube video on my favorites: BRIGHAM YOUNG: A PROPHET OF GOD?...read what this "prophet" who mormons claim received "revelations" from God...lest mormons think that my challenge to their truth claims that they are the "true" church are just "anti-mormon" rehetoric they can verify and double-check EVERY quote on that video in ANY library or book-store ...See why no TRUE sincere seeker and believer in the New Testament Christ can justify being in the mormon church..
..lds will go out of its way to distance themselves from Flds, saying "We're not like THOSE people: we follow munson not jeffs...Yet they BOTH revere the SAME founding prophet, joseph smith, brigham young et alt who brought that cancer of immorality(polygamy), mind control and child abuse that is playing itself out in tose colorado and texas compounds.. God, in His justice will repay joseph smith and those who defend his false doctrines for the victimization of innocent people and children ..
If you have to be a mormon, it's better than being a Nazi anyway, or a bigot, or a Fundamentalist Christian or any type of fundamentalist. It's not as good as being a loving, caring mature adult but at least you are trying.
QUESTION: if the mormons now excommunicate members who practice polygamy then why do joseph smith, brigham young and their followers get a free pass?...youclaim you can offer baptism psthumously...can you excommunicate and declare them false prophets posthumously as well?...(the truth is that you stopped polygamy more out of political expediency than out of repentance : mormons couldn't get Utah into the union(USA) unless you did...
Q: if the mormons now excommunicate members who practice polygamy then why do joseph smith, brigham young and their followers get a free pass?
A: Because they were obeying a commandment.
Q: you can offer baptism psthumously...can you excommunicate and declare them false prophets posthumously as well?
A: Nope, disiplinary acts are for the benefit of the living. They can be reinstated later after they show change and repent.Proxy baptism is for the dead who couldn't do the work in this life.
...your answers mock GOD and the JESUS of the new testament ..GOD NEVER commands us to sin...obeying a "commandment" to commit polygamy, a practice considered sin by the new testament church and by true-believing christians for over 2000 years?. you are complicit in the immorality of your founder, joseph smith when you promote his false doctrines..GOD in His mercy warned us about this: your so called "other testament) and your so called" holy angel" in galations 1: 8-9 and Rev 22:18.....
..yes, reggae510 and some old testament prophets also practiced incest as well as polygamy...would that make it ok as well now or in the 1800's?...i don't think so...mormons like muslims isolate verses and narrative from the old testament to justify the immorality (polygamy) of their founders..with the new tetament church we have a new understanding of the sacred boond of marriage: ONE MAN: ONE WIFE...the ONE church Christ founded was given the authority to dsiscern this in Matt.16:18-19)..
..let us be honest...the mormon church stopped polygamy for poltical reasons and NOT out of repentance (Utah could not be admitted in the USA unless than they did so...According to brigham young you can't go to heaven unless you practice that immorality (polygamy)...the mormon church can claim they stop practicing polygamy but they have yet to denounce brigham young as a false prophet for teaching a doctrine that will get you excomminicated if you do what he required...
...the GOD of the bible would NEVER condone the immorality (polygamy/ adultery) and racism that joseph smith and brigham young taught...a church already steeped in heresy and immorality at its very inception CANNOT be of GOD... you ignore that the book of mormon is a violation of Rev.22:18...flee from this cult...don not follow the false prophets smith and yoing into the lake of fire...
When are one of you guys going to do the obvious and go to court to get your tithings refunded? You have enough evidence to convince a court (DNA, archaeology, linguistics, anthropology, zoology etc) that you were conned out of hard earned cash. I will happily contribute to the fighting fund, it would be worldwide publicity for you and would finish them.
Too bad for you that the Bible supports LDS doctrine!
Psalms 82: God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods....I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10-34: Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
harry801... i do know what you believe. if i want to know what mormons believe i do not have to ask one.. by the way that is a slogan used by the masonic lodge as well.... if i want to know about mormonism i will read the book of mormon and the doctrine of covenants. i will reasearch the church and the life of joseph smith.... still mormons are nothing without the BoM and joseph smith
Guys, I came here to find out about Mormonism, not Christmas. Please, keep on topic. I just came from a YouTube page that has 16 pages of off topic posts, and I had to wade through them all. When LDS or non-LDS come here for information about Mormonism & they see this-it could adversely affect them-they see anti-Xmas posts & that could turn them off. Exposing LDS Church is more important than Xmas. Gal 1:6-9,2 Cor 11:3-5,13-15. Xmas trees don't damn.
yes harry... i can tell you are a real good mormon. but you do not believe the bible stands alone. mormons are nothing without the book of mormon and joseph smith
you want to know what we think of the bible? that many "plain and precious things" have been lost during the dark ages after the death of jesus christ and his apostles. the book of mormon just gives more truths revealed to us, like babtism, and the atonment of christ. we are christians just as much as any other. we love the bible and try to live our lives like how jesus christs taught us. if you want to know more just ask me and i will tell you what we believe. anything at all
i think it is far less a question of whether or not God would speak to us through prophets again than it is about the disbelief that joseph smith was an apostle of God. This is due to his lifestyle, multiple wives, his actions during the incident involving his death, and his actions prior to the events leading to his death along with a LOT of other stuff that i can't even mention here.
i have mormon friends. great folks, but good people are wrong all the time.
so first someone made up the Bible and now you guys think you can just go with some nobody Joseph Smith and he can make up a whole new sect? maybe in the next 100 years someone else will make up a subsect of your religion merely by choosing a character as their "prophet" and making up a new set of rules...
oh wait that's already happened and it's called FLDS and their prophet is Warren Jeffs.
you study only that which you are told to study, and believe only what you are allowed to. If you believed the Bible, you would read John 3:16 and know that all who believe in Jesus go to heaven, and all who don't go to hell.
hypocrite, thats what you are. Do you honestly believe that a person who lives in the congo somwhere that has never heard of the name jesus but lived his life the best he could by helping others doing the right thing and taught his children the same is going to burn in hell for all eternity?
Teffmonster, a VIRGIN is one who has not had sexual intercourse, right? And a MOTHER is one who has a child or children, right? But see, the bible says that Mary was a VIRGIN MOTHER. So she was a VIRGIN and also a MOTHER. This must mean that she didn't have sexual intercourse when she concieved Jesus. And God is not HUMAN he is GOD. What makes you think that having Mary concieve without sexual intercourse is in his restriction? I dont think so.
Dude, what are you on about. I am christian, and I am showing the false teachings of mormonism, the hidden and the evident. And I have read the bible... Where are you going with this?
No worries :) lol. Hey guys, I have a blogsite going where we can discuss some of these topics in more detail if you like. It's at biblicalethics . blogspot . com Hope you all have a great christmas
WOAH!!! Christmas is a Pagan tradition. Jesus wasn't born on December 25th. If you have heard of Pagan sun gods, Horus, Mythras, Dionysus, Nimrod, Tammuz and many more...all of their birthdays are on dec. 25th. Jesus NEVER celebrated his birthday. Just thought I would point that out.
Lol, fair enough. And I agree, it's roots are undeniably pagan, but a holiday is a holiday. I celebrate the birth of my King, it's convenient (though I celebrate it all year round anyway, but can't afford that many presents!)
Jesus never celebrated his birthday...And dec 25th is the birthday of the SUN...you are now engaged in sun worship which God hates...so i dont know why we should celebrate this...oh well...suit yourself..
He probably did celebrate his birthday, went to weddings and did loads of stuff that was 'holiday' related, I mean he was jewish after all. So what do you celebrate, are there any traditions you keep (out of curiosity, what denomination are you?)
No denomination. I read the bible. The bible mentions "traditions" 13 times...out of those 13 times only 2 times did it say anything about "traditions" being a good thing. [ Col 2:8 ] "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the TRADITION of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
Yeah, I can see how you might get a bit mixed up there. When the word 'tradition' is used it means the 'world system' and traditions of 'philosophy' of men. I mean, will the feast of booths be kept at the return of our redeemer (Zech 14 I think). Tradition is something i personally dislike, it's constrictive, boring and dogmatic. It also carries the errors of men. But I don't think it's a sin to celebrate christmas.
EXACTLY my point...See, you proved me right without even knowing it...Christmas is a MAN-MADE tradition that came from PAGANISM which God hates...This is ALL OVER HISTORY...The bible says that Jesus was born during the harvest. AND the gospel of luke says that the shepards were still tending sheep at the time of his birth...OCTOBER...not DECEMBER. Again, Dec 25th is the birthday of the sun which is tied around sun worship...Look this up, you will be surprised of what you find.
The cross is a symbol of the sun. In the ancient times BEFORE christ, they used "crucifixion" to sacrifice humans to the sun god. How humiliating for Jesus to die this death on the PAGAN cross. Celebrating christmas is like spitting on His face. Why should we celebrate the birth of the sun which provided the very symbol that Jesus died on?
Important thing in christianity is motive. All things are permissable but not all things edify... Paul here is trying to get at the root of the problem - the heart. Why do you accept the gregorian calendar, don't you know that it's roots are pagan, the emperors of a pagan society (a WORLD society) changing it to add their names in... The world is already judged, but I do not spit on the work of God because I am redeemed.
Boy, you sure don't do your homework, do you. He was born on Chanukah, 4BC. Bible discloses all this, starting with the timing of His Birth since David. Oh well.
The reason Mormonism is not Christian is because it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Of the essential doctrines (that there is only one God, Jesus is God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, and Jesus rose from the dead physically, the gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus), Mormonism denies three of them: how many gods there are, the person of Jesus, and His work of salvation.
Why do those things define Christianity? Christ was a perfect man, died on the cross, was resurrected, and is the only Savior for all mankind. How is that not Christian?
No! Jesus was the Incarnated only begotten SON of God. Mormon's do not and cannot believe this because they claim they will all become gods one day and bonk themselves stupid with lots of amenable, silent and obedient wifelets on a planet far away from ours.
Jesus commanded us to be like Him. He is a God. Why would he command that if it wasn't possible? And what does it mean to be like God to you? Why is that so ridiculous to believe that we can be like Jesus because of His sacrifice, and we can live forever with Him?
You said it, he is A GOD according to you. He is God according to the Doctrine of the Trinity. 3 in 1 and 1 in 3. There is only one Christian God not lots of little gods who live on planets and procreate, something LDSs are really good at doing. No wonder the church of the LDS is growing.
Doctrine of the Trinity is not biblical. Again, Christ commanded us to be like him, and he is a GOD. If I am sinless through Christ's atonement, and immortal in the eternities like He is, is that not God-like? We will NEVER overtake God or Christ, but we can be like them, and share all that they have.
Might be an idea if you read some of Augustines work. The concept of the trinity is hardwired into into both the new and old testament - the word 'elohim' being a plural form in hebrew. Smith was a fibber and swindler, don't trust his novel
The "concept" of the trinity? You give Joseph Smith too much credit if you think he was enough of a literary genius to write such a cogent book. It's impossible that he wrote that. Go research more. The Godhead is 3 separate and distinct beings that are one in purpose.
Why so many references from Christ himself to the Father? The BIBLE is loaded with "the Father" references, and the Holy Ghost references. If the Father, and the Holy Ghost are just Jesus Christ being sneaky and deceptive, then he's got me fooled! The bible clearly talks of them as 3 beings, one in purpose. Christ didn't beget himself....
It's not about sex u doughnut. Beget is in the meaning of 'giving forth'. UNder jewish theology the son had the same status as the father. Sex is our gift (mankind made in the image of God?? Man and Woman???). God didn't bonk mary to make Jesus.
I've not said anything of God "bonking" Mary, that was your creation. I'm saying that all the references to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost can be argued as polytheistic. They aren't the same being, and biblically, that can be shown clearly.
So you are saying that your religion doesn't teach that Adam was God, that he flew through time to have sex with mary an d make jesus. By the way read Isaiah 43-46, lots in there about monotheism. one God. read the bible and let it spak for itself. Anyway, nephites never existed, book is a farce
I've read the bible. I know how to define who the One God of the Old Testament is. Read the New Testament and try to justify all the Father and Son references. Adam is not God the Father and no where in Mormon Doctrine is that taught. Never anywhere does it say God had sex with Mary. You're just being ignorant.
Brigham Young proclaimed: "Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days, about whom holy men have written and spoken---He is our father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p.50-51).
I don't like being called ignorant. But I challenge you - do you characterise yourself with those words since I have shown you that mormonism does teach that
Teffmonster-Adam-God is well documented. Good material can be found on UTLM-org & MRM-org. If you can get a copy, "Adam is God?" by Chris Vlachos is great. Deut 13-false prophets lead others to follow false gods, and false Jesus & gospel- Gal 1:6-9, 2 Cor 11:3-5,13-15.
Teffmonster: REVISED-The real LDS teaching of the virgin birth & NT Jesus not begotten of the Holy Spirit & Adam-God are well documented. Good material can be found on LHVM-org, UTLM-org & MRM-org. If you can get a copy, "Adam is God?" by Chris Vlachos is great. They also have free newsletters & printed material & online. Deut 13-false prophets lead others to follow false gods, & false Jesus & gospel- Gal 1:6-9, 2 Cor 11:3-5,13-15
TheMole-Bible says ONLY 1 God who was always God-Jehovah/YHWH Elohim is 1 God, not split into 2 LDS Gods (Deut 6:4,Isa 44:6,8), while LDS have many other Gods who BECAME Gods (as humans can). For LDS Church on a sexual birth of Jesus: MRM-org>Redefining the Virgin Birth: Mormonism's Teaching Concerning the Natural Conception of Jesus & UTLM-org>Godhead and Virgin Birth Photocopies AND Topical Index>The Changing World of Mormonism> Ch 7 The Godhead>The Virgin Birth
If you TRULY read the bible you would know that ADAM was CREATED. He wasn't God because God is everlasting...Meaning NO BEGINNING AND NO END. Adam, however, HAD a beginning. In he book of Genesis ADAM was CREATED.
Teffmonster-Brigham Young as prophet taught Adam is LDS Father-God, but LDS Church has said it is false doctrine (without admitting BY taught it). Please read online & printed materials on Adam God on UTLM-org & MRM-org. Also booklet, "Adam is God?" by Chris Vlachos. VERY well documented on it's history, it being taught in many sources, but no longer taught, as well.
"silent, and obedient wifelets.." That is very offensive. Show some respect. LDS women are EQUAL to LDS men and our entitled to the same benefits and privileges in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Don't be so disrespectful as if you know because you don't know, you assume. And Christ chose to become a physical man, a God in the flesh. He chose to die the physical death for us. He was both a GOD and a man.
what absolute rubbish!!!! LDS believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ his son and the Holy Ghost three separate beings where in the heck did you dig that load of garbage up from get your facts straight
According to you, of course. I would say that you are subject to the false teachings of men as a consequence of the apostasy, else why so many "christian" churches?? If the "original" church lasted, shouldn't you be Catholic?
Why do you charaterise the christian church as being diverse? If you understood chruch history you would know that the origins of Catholicism is different to that of Christianity. Catholicism is pagan, they might use the same names, but it is not the same God because of misunderstanding the nature of God and the requirements of salvation. Same mistake being made by mormons. God does not live on a planet next to Kolob - Joe Smith was making fun of you. Spell 'Kolob' backwards
Look guys, there is no proof whatsoever to the existance of any Nephite civilisation in America, no battle fought at Hill cumorrah (otherwise it would have been excavated), because the stories were made up. Listen, only the levitical priesthood could make burnt offerings - why then Lehi (from the tribe of Judah) built a stone alter and make one? It was blasphemy and abhorrent to the Lord. Joe Smith didn't understand the scriptures and made up his own
Modern christianity is a product of reformation of the original church, which is where Catholicism claims derivation as well. Don't be ignorant about history. Nearly all Christianity is an off shoot group that broke away from Catholicism.
EH WRONG! Roman Catholicism used to be Pagan Roman religion. Christianity was just that, Christianity. The roman church took over christians and when the christians taught in contrary of the catholic church, they were burned and crucified and beheaded. Thus the time of the "dark ages" or the "inquisition"
i am a returned missionary 43 years old, married in the temple. Born and raised in "the church".
Let me state for the record the lds church is a cult. They perfomed blood oathes up until 1990(which i was naive enough to participate in)
Do not join this church, look into the history of the church and how they change doctrines. Look at section 132 of the doctrine and covenants, they still believe in polygamy. They believe we can all become gods and godesses.
still bitter??? jsut because you may have been excommunicated doent mean you cant come back you know its true dont deny that your just scared to really admit your wrong
Youtube isn't the place for religous belief, do you have your own thoughts about the truth and want to say them on somwhere it was meant for? (freewebs dot com/avcdebate)
unless of course you are implying that he was using the 'heathen source' to bend the gospel in order to convert the people. then, i would have to disagree. if that was the case, then the people could not be converted to the real gospel dont you agree?
oh ok. lets read that again shall we... the heathen source.. as ALSO certain of your poets have said... "also" he is saying here that that is true, we are the offspring of God. at least our spirits are. God is not stone or graven by men... He is our Father. Our bodies are created in His image and likeness. That means He has a shape that is like ours.the Only He is greater than us. i agree, he was using it to help them understand the true Gospel... By using truth to do so.
yes you should read it again Paul was quoting the poets in the beginning of the verse "for in him we live & move & have our being" then he says "ALSO your poets have said we are also his offspring"
Then he uses a conditional fraise "forasmuch then". You have no ground to stand on here, this issue is based simply what you want this verse to say!
Image does not always constitute shape, & your god is no greater than any other finite sapient being.
This is an interesting video. I too have argued this point with Mainstream Christians and I believe I have a very defensible position. I found it fascinating that they (the Presbyterians) believe that God is 3 person united in One. I didn't know that. Do they also believe in Predestination? that God chooses for us what we do?
lol. that is exactly it. religion cannot be proven by man. however, i could prove that mormonism is Biblical. to find out if mormonism or even the Bible is true is something everyone must do for themselves.
the belief that man may become as God is not new, as you admit many pagan religions believe it. however, according to the bible, all pagan beliefs stemmed from an original religion. Christianity in the Bible definately teaches that man may recieve exaltation and become equal to God the Father. He is our Father after all.
Men becoming gods is not a new Idea "ye shall be as gods" was one of the first things Satan said to man.
The God of the Bible is first God that created all things not procreated. That is why one can "BECOME" a child of God. We are first his creation not eternal beings that's secular humanism.
You get man becoming a god when you isolate and pervert verses in the Bible.
yes, satan did say that "ye shall be as gods" later on, God said that man had become as he (actually says they) are. "man has become one of us" many places in the Bible state that we are God's children, we are the offspring of God. We existed before we were born as spirits in heaven. the Bible also states that. The Bible also says that we do not know exactly what we will become in the resurrection and see God, but that we do know that we will be like Him for we will see Him as He is.
Yes, man in the sense of knowing good & evil became like God, such a story only makes sense as a created being, not procreated. If procreated we would naturally be children of our father, but man is naturally the enemy to God.
Your quotes are not quoted very well. When the bible said we are the offspring of God the full quote was by Paul who was himself quoting the philosophers of that area & said to them "AS MUCH AS we are the offspring of God we should not think of him as gold & silver."
you are right on with what Paul said. God is not gold, silver or any graven image. He is our Father. We are His children. we are the offspring of God.
Yes, but you just can't seem to remember to put the "As much as we are" into your quote. It's probably because it would change the meaning of what you are trying to convince people of. Here is an example: "for as much as" we are gods in embryo let us not think to call God, God for then we are self's are Gods. I neither confirmed nor denied being a god; I simply tried correcting you with your own doctrine.
for as much as we are the offspring of God.. it really does not change the meaning. are you implying that it lessens the meaning of us being His offspring? I would say that it strengthens it to say "As much as we are" As much as we are the offspring of God, let us not think that he is a graven image made of stone, gold or silver... He is our Father and we are His children. We are made in His image. He is alive "as much as" we are.
I'm not implying, I telling you. The reason Paul spoke to these people like this, is because he was quoting there own poets. For example your poets have said: we are the children of god "as much as we are the children of god let us not think of god as god and silver" What Paul was saying would make no sense if he wasn't coming to them with there own teachings.
I can see this is not sinking in with you, hopefully others will understand.
oh i get it now! paul is using a false doctrine to support real doctrine. give me a break. that is ridiculous. nowhere does it say that he is quoting poets. lets look at some more writings of paul.
Romans 8:16-17 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
No where huh? Did you try looking at the verse before it that says: "your own poets have said"?
Romans 8:16-17 Great! Another example of how you isolate a verse to make it say what you want.
Try reading a few verses before "as many as are led by the spirit of God, they are the sons of God... receiving the spirit of adoption" So your example has only proven to show you false. We are created not procreated.
ok, i see.. some of their poets said that we are the offspring of God. Well? It seems to me that Paul is also supportive of that belief. "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain ALSO of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring." He uses it to support the doctrine that God is not a graven image but He is alive. He is our Father. Pretty clear to me.
"Pretty clear to you?" yesterday you didn't even know what the verse before this one said.
Yes, he is using it to show that God is not a graven image but not necessarily that we are a result of his procreative actions. Instead of assuming such teachings from one verse look to the rest of the bible & see that man can "BECOME" a child of God through "ADOPTION".
i understand and am fully aware that there are verses stating that man can become a child of God. In this sense, it is meaning that we accept Him as our Father, spiritually. By accepting Jesus Christ as our Savior and believing on Him and His Gospel, we become His children in that we look to Him for guidance and knowing that we are His children and have the potential to RETURN to Him. It does not imply that He was not our Father of our spirits before, but rather an acceptance of that.
for the sake of misinterpretation, let me clarify my statement.. that by accepting Jesus Christ and His Gospel, We become God's children. (seems as though i said children of Jesus)
clearly, we can "become" the sons and daughters of God by accepting the fact that He is our Father, we obtain a closeness, a relationship with Him as opposed to rejecting Him. We live His Gospel and "become" His children. However, this does not mean that we were not His children beforehand, as He is the Father of our spirits.
We BECOME children of God that's what makes him the father of our spirits. God could be called Father of all creation this is why God is our father. You're seriously trying to tell me, some alien on Kolob procreated humanity? If that's true it's not God becoming our Father, its making your (Alien) father your god. That makes about as much sense as making your earthly father your god.
The Bible says that God is the Father of our spirits. Paul affirms that we are His offspring. God is the creator of our mortal bodies and the Father of our spirits.
Then your god is not God just like your earthly father wouldn't be God. Your god is a man, literally, he is nothing more than you or I am, he just knows more, like your earthly father.
Another example: Your prophets have said: "it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament" (D&C 27) forasmuch as it matters not what you eat or drink for sacrament let us not think that saying the exact words are any more important.
I believe it is important what is taken for communion, but not what is exactly said. I have shown you a double standard of truth in your church just like Paul did in Corinth.
what is more important than anything is what is in your heart. However, I humbly believe that the sacrament prayer is important because it covers the grounds of what the Savior said that the experience is all about.
This wasn't the point I was trying to make, but if you want to go it cool.
Your churches revelation was to reveal that what you partake of in sacrament didn't matter & yet you will re-say a prayer until you get it word for word right. What is said is important but word for word is not nesisary to focus on what is in your heart. The symbols in sacrament are important & you have traded the wine of the New Covenant with water.
now, all throughout the Bible God is refered to as our Father and we are referred to as His children. I'm sorry, but i cannot see Paul also teaching this if it were not true. He would not blend in false teachings with true ones to try to save someones soul. if he were, then his purpose was defeated.
Anyone objectively looking at the Bible knows it teaches one can "BECOME" Gods child; it is conditional by "ADOPTION" This is what Paul taught & only by taking isolated verses can you deviate from that truth in the bible. To say "forasmuch as" is also conditional
One could say God is the Father of all creation that doesn't mean all creation is his offspring.
Although, we are all Gods children collectively, Adam and Eve were created, true. The bodies of everyone and every animal were created. What makes humankind different than animals is that our bodies were created in the same image and likeness as the body that God has. The fact that He created our body does not take away from the fact that our spirits were with Him in premortal life.
Is that it, our bodies are what make us different than animals? Our minds are what make us different than the animals, not the shape of our bodies.
Again this is all from your other books & teachers, not the Bible. The bible tells of a God who fills heaven & earth, which stands outside of time space, not a glorified man/alien having sex on Kolob
or course our bodies are not the only thing that make us different from animals. not only our minds either, it is our spirit that makes us different, in conjunction with the body that God created for us which is fashioned after the image and likeness of His.
God does have a body of flesh and bone. We are made after His image. Jesus also has a body of flesh and bone that He ascended to Heaven with. Jesus is the express image of God, He looks just like Him and has a body just like Him. He is our Father, we are His offspring. Why wouldnt He have a body?
If you want to worship an alien on another planet fine but it's not Biblical. The Bible makes it Clear that God is not a body of flesh and bone. Matt 16:17 1 Cor 15:50 Luke 24:39 Jer 23:24 2 Ch 2:6 Rom 1:23 1 Tim 6:16.
"Why wouldn't he have a body," Seriously? Because He's God, & isn't subject to the laws of this universe, time, nor space; the universe is subject to Him. All things are not from eternity, only God is.
The Bible does not say that God does not have a body of flesh and bone. In fact the scripture from Luke you sent me is Jesus in resurected form stating that He has a body of flesh and bone (that He took with Him to Heaven) Other scripture you quoted states 'flesh and blood' is not found in Heaven. This is true. ressurected bodies do not have blood in them. They are quickened by the spirit. God knows all, so obviously you cannot hide from Him. The Holy Ghost however, does not have a body.
Yes Jesus was raised with a body of flesh & bone but it is His glorified body like the one on the mount of transfiguration that he resides in heaven with. Matt 17 Christ isn't some glowing man he is the expression of the infinite God of which heaven and earth flee from His face Rev 20:11
Flesh & blood, that means flesh, & also blood, just because your god doesn't have blood that doesn't mean its ok to have the flesh.
The Mormons' God the Father has appeared, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 1 month ago
So, Mormons teach that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate gods. But the Bible says differently. Isaiah 44:6, 8 says, “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God....Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.’ ” [or the NASB says: “I know of none”]
Rider7575 6 months ago
The bottom line is all people who spend their time trying to argue the "meaningless difference" in any church's doctrine instead of spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the reality of his atoning sacrifice and how living gospel he taught brings us closer to our Father in Heaven,.really is wasting time.I mean really to argue over a "different Jesus"..Is ridiculous beyond reason. There's only one Savior and all things necessary for me to gain salavation are in him.WHAT ELSE MATTERS?
nannykiki 6 months ago
boo,boo... I think you better READ your bible again... Jesus clear denotes a ...difference between HE and HIS father..Both part of a Godhead....but, not the same individual... READ IT..GO FOR IT...it's all there...I am sorry for my "sassy" nature..but, REALLY ...who in the world was Jesus talking to? praying to? calling out to? Who did he mean when he said that no one could get to the Father except through him? good grief? READ YOUR BIBLE..and pray about it..
nannykiki 6 months ago
War of the Cults
nameofthepen 1 year ago
man some of the thinking and the words brought out by especially the backyard professor really are lacking with integrity, what I am trying to say is there is no backing for the belief system. We have archeology and we have Jesus' words to back up what we say, the book of mormon has never been used for archeology or any purpose brought up by it.
MrBigbear6718 1 year ago
sorry sir: I respect you for a human being, I do not dis you in anyway, but please see that it is really not the same Jesus. You believe in Jesus, but the fact is Mormons are very proud and will not let go their pride of life to let Jesus take over. My question is this, if it is the same Jesus then are you letting the Cross of Christ be your focal point in your life or is your religion the focal point. from what I see it is the later.
MrBigbear6718 1 year ago
lay your doctrine down....you will see you do not worship the same Jesus.
MrBigbear6718 1 year ago
@MrBigbear6718... Respectfully ... I am LDS and used to be Catholic...I am worshiping the exact same Jesus as I was before. There's no difference between my Jesus, the Catholic Jesus or the non-denominational Christian Jesus...I do see many people, who call themselves Christian, spending more time professing they are Christian while bashing their brothers and sisters, than living a Christian lifestyle. The LDS Jesus doesn't teach that...maybe you're right.
nannykiki 1 year ago
@nannykiki Is Jesus your spirit brother or is he your God incarnate?
waterplo12 1 year ago
@waterplo12 I am pretty sure the scriptures make that clear. We are all Spirit Children of Heavenly Father and as the scriptures say...Jesus is his only BEGOTTEN IN THE FLESH... Jesus is God of the OLD TESTAMENT , the GREAT JEHOVAH...yet, he has a Father..(which he clearly pointed out on many occasions)....I am not sure how you handle your spiritual journey...but, does it really matter if we are or aren't spirit brothers and sisters of Jesus ?
nannykiki 7 months ago
@nannykiki You say that the scripture makes it clear that we are all children of God. I am wondering if you can provide scripture where this is true. Romans 8:14-17 talk about how people lead by the spirit are children of God through adoption. If we were adopted we are not all children of God from the beginning. As for if it matters, it matters in that we should want to seek the truth and know the truth about God. It also takes away the reverance of who Jesus really is. Our God and savior.
waterplo12 6 months ago
@waterplo12 I am sorry you are so set on in the worldly way of "proving" through scripture...scripture that has been taken from and translated a zillion times..each time taking away from it's original form...The same reliance upon your own intelligence(like those who denied Christ) instead of seeking clarification from the Holy Spirit..but, if you must have something to ponder... Why is it significant that the term "only begotten son" is used instead of ONLY SON?
nannykiki 6 months ago
@nannykiki As stated below we are called to search scripture daily for truth as the Bereans did in Acts 17:11. From this verse it is not wordly but is the standard we are to use to see if something is true. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good." Proverbs 30:5-6: "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."
waterplo12 6 months ago
@waterplo12 ...boy, you do have it bad...lol..If you HONESTLY believe we have the BIBLE in it's original form , anywhere on this planet... I've got Ocean front property in Las Vegas to sell you.... We already know the books chosen were NOT SELECTED by the apostles or Jesus Christ... I mean ..REALLY... Get real. That is why he left the Holy Ghost with us...as a gift ..to verify all things ....
nannykiki 6 months ago
@nannykiki The Bible has more manuscript evidence to back up what is said than any other work of antiquity. No one has the origonal doccuments so we look at the manuscript evidence. There are around 5,000 Greek manuscripts, 10,000 latin, and 9,000 others dating 100 to 300 years after the originals. If we compare that to other ancient documents Plato has 7 copies- 1200 year gap, titus 20 copies-1000yr gap. F. F. Bruce: "There is no body of ancient literature in the world which (Continue reading)
waterplo12 6 months ago
@nannykiki (Continued from above) enjoys such a wealth of good attestation as the New Testament." William F. Albright: "Thanks to the Qumran discoveries, the New Testament proves to be in fact what it was formerly believed to be: the teaching of Christ and his immediate followers circa.25 and circa. 80 AD." We have Quotes from Early Churchs fathers. Of the four Gospels alone there arre 19,368 citations from Early chruch Fathers. While there has been 150,000 varients found 99% hold (Continue)
waterplo12 6 months ago
@nannykiki (...) virtually no significants. Examples missing letters or reverse word orders ("Christ Jesus" instead "Jesus christ"). About 50 varients have significants but do not affect Christian doctrine or moral commandments. To a practical certainty 99% of the original text can be reconstructed from the manuscript evidence. Most importantly I trust Isaiah 40:8 "...the word of our God shall stand for ever"
waterplo12 6 months ago
@waterplo12 ..You are so funny. The only entity that can verify the truth to me is the Holy Ghost...you can ramble until you turn blue in the face.... I already know who God the Father is and who is chosen, beloved ONLY BEGOTTEN Son , Jesus Christ...who came here atoned for our sins and taught us all things we need to know... I know that salvation is only found through him and I know he left his Spirit to be with us .. I know my Savior lives...I owe him everything.. PEACE.
nannykiki 6 months ago
@nannykiki So first you attack my character and I bring you evidence for the reliability of the Bible and you change the subject to how to determine truth. How did the Bereans determine what was truth? By a feeling or by searching God's word? 7. Acts 17:11: "These were more noble minded that those is Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so." (Continue below)
waterplo12 6 months ago
@nannykiki (coninued from above) After being kicked out of Thessalonica Paul and Silas went to Berea and start to preach the Gospel. These people had never heard it before or seen Paul or Silas before. Did they kneel down to pray to ask for knowledge whether it is true? In Acts 17:11 we see that the Bereans searched the Scriptures daily to see if to see if what Paul and Silas were saying was true. The Word of God is the standard they used, not emotions, to see if something is true.
waterplo12 6 months ago
@nannykiki Feelings that you feel even though they may feel true must be tested against the word of God. If it contradicts what God haas already said it cannot be true.
waterplo12 6 months ago
@waterplo12 .It's not my feelings. I read it . The words are there some people knit pick them and flip them upside down.I read them, ponder them, pray about them and then the Holy Spirit tells me,for you to say that MAN can read and interpret the BIBLE without the SPIRIT is definitely NOT what we are told to do in the Bible. That is what is wrong with the world today..many a man has taken his supposed literal interpretation and many have followed it , never seeking verification of the Spirit.
nannykiki 6 months ago
@nannykiki "for you to say that MAN can read and interpret the BIBLE without the SPIRIT" Not what I was saying. The Bible is the word of God and being his words guides Believers. As a new creature in Christ believers are given a new heart and his spirit is placed in believers to guide them. To deferentiate between his spirit and other spirits we can view God's words that have already been spoken and given to us in the Bible and his spirit gives us eyes to see and ears to hear.
waterplo12 6 months ago
@waterplo12 good...We agree... Love you..
nannykiki 6 months ago
@nannykiki We agree to a certain extent. Since we have God's word and the Bible and believers who have accepted Christ as their Lord and savior can use the God's word in the Bible as a bench mark for what they feel they are being told be the holy spirit to see if it is true. Just like the Bible can be used in this way to see if what is in the Book of Mormon, D&C and Pearl of Great Price is true. Just like the Bereans. God's word is everlasting and beautiful. God bless.
waterplo12 6 months ago
@waterplo12 exactly .I am not one to accept anything at face value..I've put the King James version of the Bible, Book of Mormon, D&C & the Pearl of Great Price and all questions related to their content to the test.. seeking "meaning and truthfulness" through the power of the only one who can truly clarify. I promise if you seek to know, accepting what the Lord has to say through the power of the Holy Ghost..dropping all you know and becoming as a little child..YOU WILL GET THE SAME ANSWERS !
nannykiki 6 months ago
@nannykiki "many a man has taken his supposed literal interpretation and many have followed it" I agree!
waterplo12 6 months ago
@nannykiki "scripture that has been taken from and translated a zillion times..each time taking away from it's original form" This presupposes that we don't have the origonal Greek version and all the manuscript to support that we have the origonal form. If we have questions of translation in the English form we could go back to the Greek. Isaiah 40:8: "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever." You can compare Isaiah 40:8 to 1 Peter 1:23-25.
waterplo12 6 months ago
@waterplo12 (here you go) Matthew 6: 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: "Our" Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. .In Philippians 4:20 Now unto God and "our" Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Thessalonians 3:11 Now God himself and "our" Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you. Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God " our" Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
nannykiki 6 months ago
@nannykiki From scripture we know there is only one true God (Deut 6:4, Isaiah 43:10-11, Isaiah 44:6, 8, Isaiah 45:5-6, Isaiah 45:22, and Psalm 96:5. There is only one entity or being of God. We see from the Bible there are three different persons given the essence of God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit. From scripture we see Jesus is eternal and is our creator (John 1:1-4, 14; Isaiah 9:6; John 8:58; 1 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 13:8; Colossians 1:16-17). (...Continued reading post that follows)
waterplo12 6 months ago
@nannykiki (Continued from above) Philippians 2:6:11 we see Jesus humbled himself. Since we know that Jesus is eternal and is our creator he cannot be the literal "spirit child" of a Father God but that they are of the same being or essence. Jesus humbling himself prayed to the father and gave the glory to him. "Being in the very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, talking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness"
waterplo12 6 months ago
@waterplo12 Drop the pride, read the Book of Mormon , take the missionary discussions..seek the truth...earnestly through sincere searching and prayer (not debate, trying to show you are smart or something..Heavenly Father really doesn't care about shows...He wants you to ask him..not yourself) ..and I promise..you will see....the truths will emerge before you like never before...it all becomes so simple..because it comes from the SOURCE.
nannykiki 6 months ago
part 2: to get bogged down in meaningless debate with use of the intelligence of man ..totally distracts from the Spirit and not the way Jesus taught... stick to the gospel.... Jesus has a FATHER...he clearly called out to Him...He clearly came to testify of His Father and give Glory to Him... It's all in the bible...It's not hidden..
nannykiki 7 months ago
@nannykiki We are called to search the scriptures are the standard for truth as the Bereans did in Acts 17:11. From scripture we see that Jesus has eternally existed as God and is our creator (John 1:1-4, 14; Isaiah 9:6; John 8:58; 1 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 13:8; Colossians 1:16-17).
waterplo12 6 months ago
@waterplo12 yes, you are called to search the scriptures and to use the counsel with regard to understanding them that is given in James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. (The problem with those who get caught up in debating scripture is the time is never taken to seek the meaning as "little children".,..MAN assumes they are smart enough to interpret the scripture...never asking...
nannykiki 6 months ago
@nannykiki We are not just called to search scripture but we use it as our standard of truth as the Bereans. It is interesting that you called it worldly above. James 1:5 is in the context of trials and temptations.
waterplo12 6 months ago
@nannykiki Also if we look at James 1:5 it talks about wisdom (Gr: sophia), not knowledge (Gr: gnosis).
waterplo12 6 months ago
Each church thinks their church is the right one. Then they start using the old blame game saying gays are the downfall of society or women's right to choose will destroy society. Then some of them are pitted against each other like the Mormons and the Evangelicals. It just goes on and on and on and is so incredibly regressive it's laughable; yet it's not laughable because it is seriously sad and tragic. This is how wars begin. We need progressive positive discipleship not fearmongering.
Jacksonholenativ 2 years ago 3
um....where is the second part?
sonofcohen 3 years ago
..Viewers can go to this youtube video on my favorites: BRIGHAM YOUNG: A PROPHET OF GOD?...read what this "prophet" who mormons claim received "revelations" from God...lest mormons think that my challenge to their truth claims that they are the "true" church are just "anti-mormon" rehetoric they can verify and double-check EVERY quote on that video in ANY library or book-store ...See why no TRUE sincere seeker and believer in the New Testament Christ can justify being in the mormon church..
dimtry19 3 years ago
..lds will go out of its way to distance themselves from Flds, saying "We're not like THOSE people: we follow munson not jeffs...Yet they BOTH revere the SAME founding prophet, joseph smith, brigham young et alt who brought that cancer of immorality(polygamy), mind control and child abuse that is playing itself out in tose colorado and texas compounds.. God, in His justice will repay joseph smith and those who defend his false doctrines for the victimization of innocent people and children ..
dimtry19 3 years ago 3
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If you have to be a mormon, it's better than being a Nazi anyway, or a bigot, or a Fundamentalist Christian or any type of fundamentalist. It's not as good as being a loving, caring mature adult but at least you are trying.
Islwynpaul 3 years ago
QUESTION: if the mormons now excommunicate members who practice polygamy then why do joseph smith, brigham young and their followers get a free pass?...youclaim you can offer baptism psthumously...can you excommunicate and declare them false prophets posthumously as well?...(the truth is that you stopped polygamy more out of political expediency than out of repentance : mormons couldn't get Utah into the union(USA) unless you did...
dimtry19 3 years ago 2
Q: if the mormons now excommunicate members who practice polygamy then why do joseph smith, brigham young and their followers get a free pass?
A: Because they were obeying a commandment.
Q: you can offer baptism psthumously...can you excommunicate and declare them false prophets posthumously as well?
A: Nope, disiplinary acts are for the benefit of the living. They can be reinstated later after they show change and repent.Proxy baptism is for the dead who couldn't do the work in this life.
deboradec3160 3 years ago
...your answers mock GOD and the JESUS of the new testament ..GOD NEVER commands us to sin...obeying a "commandment" to commit polygamy, a practice considered sin by the new testament church and by true-believing christians for over 2000 years?. you are complicit in the immorality of your founder, joseph smith when you promote his false doctrines..GOD in His mercy warned us about this: your so called "other testament) and your so called" holy angel" in galations 1: 8-9 and Rev 22:18.....
dimtry19 3 years ago 2
check the bible polygamy happened in the bible.
Reggae510 3 years ago
..yes, reggae510 and some old testament prophets also practiced incest as well as polygamy...would that make it ok as well now or in the 1800's?...i don't think so...mormons like muslims isolate verses and narrative from the old testament to justify the immorality (polygamy) of their founders..with the new tetament church we have a new understanding of the sacred boond of marriage: ONE MAN: ONE WIFE...the ONE church Christ founded was given the authority to dsiscern this in Matt.16:18-19)..
dimtry19 3 years ago 3
And so does the mormon church. 1 man 1 women....
Reggae510 3 years ago
..let us be honest...the mormon church stopped polygamy for poltical reasons and NOT out of repentance (Utah could not be admitted in the USA unless than they did so...According to brigham young you can't go to heaven unless you practice that immorality (polygamy)...the mormon church can claim they stop practicing polygamy but they have yet to denounce brigham young as a false prophet for teaching a doctrine that will get you excomminicated if you do what he required...
dimtry19 3 years ago 6
...the GOD of the bible would NEVER condone the immorality (polygamy/ adultery) and racism that joseph smith and brigham young taught...a church already steeped in heresy and immorality at its very inception CANNOT be of GOD... you ignore that the book of mormon is a violation of Rev.22:18...flee from this cult...don not follow the false prophets smith and yoing into the lake of fire...
dimtry19 3 years ago
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When are one of you guys going to do the obvious and go to court to get your tithings refunded? You have enough evidence to convince a court (DNA, archaeology, linguistics, anthropology, zoology etc) that you were conned out of hard earned cash. I will happily contribute to the fighting fund, it would be worldwide publicity for you and would finish them.
Estaban333 3 years ago
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Too bad for you that the Bible supports LDS doctrine!
Psalms 82: God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods....I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10-34: Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
EscapeNewJersey 3 years ago
The LDS needs to learn the word of the day...
context [ˈkontekst] noun
the parts directly before or after a word or phrase (written or spoken) which affect its meaning
Example: This statement, taken out of its context, gives a wrong impression of the speaker's opinions.
clint25n 3 years ago
harry801... i do know what you believe. if i want to know what mormons believe i do not have to ask one.. by the way that is a slogan used by the masonic lodge as well.... if i want to know about mormonism i will read the book of mormon and the doctrine of covenants. i will reasearch the church and the life of joseph smith.... still mormons are nothing without the BoM and joseph smith
newenglandtom 4 years ago
Guys, I came here to find out about Mormonism, not Christmas. Please, keep on topic. I just came from a YouTube page that has 16 pages of off topic posts, and I had to wade through them all. When LDS or non-LDS come here for information about Mormonism & they see this-it could adversely affect them-they see anti-Xmas posts & that could turn them off. Exposing LDS Church is more important than Xmas. Gal 1:6-9,2 Cor 11:3-5,13-15. Xmas trees don't damn.
harry4health 4 years ago
obviously we do.
"The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints"
I dont get how people see that and think we dont believe in god! GOSH!
dabestsinger 4 years ago
you do believe in A God, but not the one of the bible..... mormonism is lies and deception.
newenglandtom 4 years ago
what the hell are you talking about! we study the bible, we belive it. you were obviously lied to about mormons
harry801 4 years ago
yes harry... i can tell you are a real good mormon. but you do not believe the bible stands alone. mormons are nothing without the book of mormon and joseph smith
newenglandtom 4 years ago
you want to know what we think of the bible? that many "plain and precious things" have been lost during the dark ages after the death of jesus christ and his apostles. the book of mormon just gives more truths revealed to us, like babtism, and the atonment of christ. we are christians just as much as any other. we love the bible and try to live our lives like how jesus christs taught us. if you want to know more just ask me and i will tell you what we believe. anything at all
harry801 4 years ago
i think it is far less a question of whether or not God would speak to us through prophets again than it is about the disbelief that joseph smith was an apostle of God. This is due to his lifestyle, multiple wives, his actions during the incident involving his death, and his actions prior to the events leading to his death along with a LOT of other stuff that i can't even mention here.
i have mormon friends. great folks, but good people are wrong all the time.
anonazero 3 years ago
so first someone made up the Bible and now you guys think you can just go with some nobody Joseph Smith and he can make up a whole new sect? maybe in the next 100 years someone else will make up a subsect of your religion merely by choosing a character as their "prophet" and making up a new set of rules...
oh wait that's already happened and it's called FLDS and their prophet is Warren Jeffs.
civic4982 3 years ago
Actually, the FLDS practice the actual lds practices. the mormons continue revising and changing as days continue.
Demlar 3 years ago 3
you study only that which you are told to study, and believe only what you are allowed to. If you believed the Bible, you would read John 3:16 and know that all who believe in Jesus go to heaven, and all who don't go to hell.
apologeticsman 3 years ago
hypocrite, thats what you are. Do you honestly believe that a person who lives in the congo somwhere that has never heard of the name jesus but lived his life the best he could by helping others doing the right thing and taught his children the same is going to burn in hell for all eternity?
harry801 3 years ago
all I have to say is yes we do
ldschick123 4 years ago
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Secrets cloaked in Mormon silence. Mitt chooses to not talk about his faith for good reasons.
Is the Mormon Church full of Nazi sympathizers?
Check this out:
The Mormon church performed 'good' deeds for Adolf Hitler. The Mormons are as good as the Nazis for documenting information.
For more information, please visit:
utlm(dot)org/onlineresources/hitlertemplework(dot)htm
Read about the temple work done for Hitler multiple times, in multiple temples!!
TheReporterOfTruth 4 years ago
Teffmonster, a VIRGIN is one who has not had sexual intercourse, right? And a MOTHER is one who has a child or children, right? But see, the bible says that Mary was a VIRGIN MOTHER. So she was a VIRGIN and also a MOTHER. This must mean that she didn't have sexual intercourse when she concieved Jesus. And God is not HUMAN he is GOD. What makes you think that having Mary concieve without sexual intercourse is in his restriction? I dont think so.
sevensealsofgod 4 years ago
Dude, what are you on about. I am christian, and I am showing the false teachings of mormonism, the hidden and the evident. And I have read the bible... Where are you going with this?
Teffmonster 4 years ago
Oh wrong person...LOL
sevensealsofgod 4 years ago
No worries :) lol. Hey guys, I have a blogsite going where we can discuss some of these topics in more detail if you like. It's at biblicalethics . blogspot . com Hope you all have a great christmas
Teffmonster 4 years ago
WOAH!!! Christmas is a Pagan tradition. Jesus wasn't born on December 25th. If you have heard of Pagan sun gods, Horus, Mythras, Dionysus, Nimrod, Tammuz and many more...all of their birthdays are on dec. 25th. Jesus NEVER celebrated his birthday. Just thought I would point that out.
sevensealsofgod 4 years ago
So what are you doing tomorrow?
Teffmonster 4 years ago
Not celebrating it...
sevensealsofgod 4 years ago
Lol, fair enough. And I agree, it's roots are undeniably pagan, but a holiday is a holiday. I celebrate the birth of my King, it's convenient (though I celebrate it all year round anyway, but can't afford that many presents!)
Teffmonster 4 years ago
Jesus never celebrated his birthday...And dec 25th is the birthday of the SUN...you are now engaged in sun worship which God hates...so i dont know why we should celebrate this...oh well...suit yourself..
sevensealsofgod 4 years ago
He probably did celebrate his birthday, went to weddings and did loads of stuff that was 'holiday' related, I mean he was jewish after all. So what do you celebrate, are there any traditions you keep (out of curiosity, what denomination are you?)
Teffmonster 4 years ago
No denomination. I read the bible. The bible mentions "traditions" 13 times...out of those 13 times only 2 times did it say anything about "traditions" being a good thing. [ Col 2:8 ] "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the TRADITION of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
sevensealsofgod 4 years ago
Yeah, I can see how you might get a bit mixed up there. When the word 'tradition' is used it means the 'world system' and traditions of 'philosophy' of men. I mean, will the feast of booths be kept at the return of our redeemer (Zech 14 I think). Tradition is something i personally dislike, it's constrictive, boring and dogmatic. It also carries the errors of men. But I don't think it's a sin to celebrate christmas.
Teffmonster 4 years ago
EXACTLY my point...See, you proved me right without even knowing it...Christmas is a MAN-MADE tradition that came from PAGANISM which God hates...This is ALL OVER HISTORY...The bible says that Jesus was born during the harvest. AND the gospel of luke says that the shepards were still tending sheep at the time of his birth...OCTOBER...not DECEMBER. Again, Dec 25th is the birthday of the sun which is tied around sun worship...Look this up, you will be surprised of what you find.
sevensealsofgod 4 years ago
The cross is a symbol of the sun. In the ancient times BEFORE christ, they used "crucifixion" to sacrifice humans to the sun god. How humiliating for Jesus to die this death on the PAGAN cross. Celebrating christmas is like spitting on His face. Why should we celebrate the birth of the sun which provided the very symbol that Jesus died on?
sevensealsofgod 4 years ago
Important thing in christianity is motive. All things are permissable but not all things edify... Paul here is trying to get at the root of the problem - the heart. Why do you accept the gregorian calendar, don't you know that it's roots are pagan, the emperors of a pagan society (a WORLD society) changing it to add their names in... The world is already judged, but I do not spit on the work of God because I am redeemed.
Teffmonster 4 years ago
Boy, you sure don't do your homework, do you. He was born on Chanukah, 4BC. Bible discloses all this, starting with the timing of His Birth since David. Oh well.
brainouty 4 years ago
Mormon's believe that a man has the potential to become god of his own planet. It is a polytheistic religion.
Don't be ignorant- Read up on Mormonism.
BJKowal 4 years ago
We can become like God and in fact are commanded to do so. Why is it so hard to believe that children of God have the potential to be just like Him?
TheMole1979 4 years ago
I am God there is none like me. I am God there is no other.
Says it all really
Teffmonster 4 years ago
I really think all of you should sit down and read the scriptures again
alby451 4 years ago
The reason Mormonism is not Christian is because it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Of the essential doctrines (that there is only one God, Jesus is God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, and Jesus rose from the dead physically, the gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus), Mormonism denies three of them: how many gods there are, the person of Jesus, and His work of salvation.
Islwynpaul 4 years ago
Why do those things define Christianity? Christ was a perfect man, died on the cross, was resurrected, and is the only Savior for all mankind. How is that not Christian?
TheMole1979 4 years ago
No! Jesus was the Incarnated only begotten SON of God. Mormon's do not and cannot believe this because they claim they will all become gods one day and bonk themselves stupid with lots of amenable, silent and obedient wifelets on a planet far away from ours.
Islwynpaul 4 years ago
Jesus commanded us to be like Him. He is a God. Why would he command that if it wasn't possible? And what does it mean to be like God to you? Why is that so ridiculous to believe that we can be like Jesus because of His sacrifice, and we can live forever with Him?
TheMole1979 4 years ago
You said it, he is A GOD according to you. He is God according to the Doctrine of the Trinity. 3 in 1 and 1 in 3. There is only one Christian God not lots of little gods who live on planets and procreate, something LDSs are really good at doing. No wonder the church of the LDS is growing.
Islwynpaul 4 years ago
Doctrine of the Trinity is not biblical. Again, Christ commanded us to be like him, and he is a GOD. If I am sinless through Christ's atonement, and immortal in the eternities like He is, is that not God-like? We will NEVER overtake God or Christ, but we can be like them, and share all that they have.
TheMole1979 4 years ago
Might be an idea if you read some of Augustines work. The concept of the trinity is hardwired into into both the new and old testament - the word 'elohim' being a plural form in hebrew. Smith was a fibber and swindler, don't trust his novel
Teffmonster 4 years ago
The "concept" of the trinity? You give Joseph Smith too much credit if you think he was enough of a literary genius to write such a cogent book. It's impossible that he wrote that. Go research more. The Godhead is 3 separate and distinct beings that are one in purpose.
TheMole1979 4 years ago
Why so many references from Christ himself to the Father? The BIBLE is loaded with "the Father" references, and the Holy Ghost references. If the Father, and the Holy Ghost are just Jesus Christ being sneaky and deceptive, then he's got me fooled! The bible clearly talks of them as 3 beings, one in purpose. Christ didn't beget himself....
TheMole1979 4 years ago
It's not about sex u doughnut. Beget is in the meaning of 'giving forth'. UNder jewish theology the son had the same status as the father. Sex is our gift (mankind made in the image of God?? Man and Woman???). God didn't bonk mary to make Jesus.
Teffmonster 4 years ago
I've not said anything of God "bonking" Mary, that was your creation. I'm saying that all the references to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost can be argued as polytheistic. They aren't the same being, and biblically, that can be shown clearly.
TheMole1979 4 years ago
So you are saying that your religion doesn't teach that Adam was God, that he flew through time to have sex with mary an d make jesus. By the way read Isaiah 43-46, lots in there about monotheism. one God. read the bible and let it spak for itself. Anyway, nephites never existed, book is a farce
Teffmonster 4 years ago
I've read the bible. I know how to define who the One God of the Old Testament is. Read the New Testament and try to justify all the Father and Son references. Adam is not God the Father and no where in Mormon Doctrine is that taught. Never anywhere does it say God had sex with Mary. You're just being ignorant.
TheMole1979 4 years ago
When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in
his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the
Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he (Christ) took a
tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in Heaven, AFTER THE SAME MANNER as
the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam
and Eve.
Teffmonster 4 years ago
Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same
character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven
Statement by brigham young
"We are told in the scriptures that Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of
God in the flesh....how are children begotten? I answer, just as Jesus was
begotten of his Father. The Christian denominations believe that Christ was
begotten not of God, but of the spirit that overshadowed his mother.
Statement By Joseph Smith
Teffmonster 4 years ago
Brigham Young proclaimed: "Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days, about whom holy men have written and spoken---He is our father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p.50-51).
Teffmonster 4 years ago
I don't like being called ignorant. But I challenge you - do you characterise yourself with those words since I have shown you that mormonism does teach that
Teffmonster 4 years ago
Teffmonster-Adam-God is well documented. Good material can be found on UTLM-org & MRM-org. If you can get a copy, "Adam is God?" by Chris Vlachos is great. Deut 13-false prophets lead others to follow false gods, and false Jesus & gospel- Gal 1:6-9, 2 Cor 11:3-5,13-15.
harry4health 4 years ago
Teffmonster: REVISED-The real LDS teaching of the virgin birth & NT Jesus not begotten of the Holy Spirit & Adam-God are well documented. Good material can be found on LHVM-org, UTLM-org & MRM-org. If you can get a copy, "Adam is God?" by Chris Vlachos is great. They also have free newsletters & printed material & online. Deut 13-false prophets lead others to follow false gods, & false Jesus & gospel- Gal 1:6-9, 2 Cor 11:3-5,13-15
harry4health 4 years ago
TheMole-Bible says ONLY 1 God who was always God-Jehovah/YHWH Elohim is 1 God, not split into 2 LDS Gods (Deut 6:4,Isa 44:6,8), while LDS have many other Gods who BECAME Gods (as humans can). For LDS Church on a sexual birth of Jesus: MRM-org>Redefining the Virgin Birth: Mormonism's Teaching Concerning the Natural Conception of Jesus & UTLM-org>Godhead and Virgin Birth Photocopies AND Topical Index>The Changing World of Mormonism> Ch 7 The Godhead>The Virgin Birth
harry4health 4 years ago
If you TRULY read the bible you would know that ADAM was CREATED. He wasn't God because God is everlasting...Meaning NO BEGINNING AND NO END. Adam, however, HAD a beginning. In he book of Genesis ADAM was CREATED.
sevensealsofgod 4 years ago
Teffmonster-Brigham Young as prophet taught Adam is LDS Father-God, but LDS Church has said it is false doctrine (without admitting BY taught it). Please read online & printed materials on Adam God on UTLM-org & MRM-org. Also booklet, "Adam is God?" by Chris Vlachos. VERY well documented on it's history, it being taught in many sources, but no longer taught, as well.
harry4health 4 years ago
"silent, and obedient wifelets.." That is very offensive. Show some respect. LDS women are EQUAL to LDS men and our entitled to the same benefits and privileges in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Don't be so disrespectful as if you know because you don't know, you assume. And Christ chose to become a physical man, a God in the flesh. He chose to die the physical death for us. He was both a GOD and a man.
TheMole1979 4 years ago
Amen!!!
alby451 4 years ago
what absolute rubbish!!!! LDS believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ his son and the Holy Ghost three separate beings where in the heck did you dig that load of garbage up from get your facts straight
alby451 4 years ago
LDS followers are sadly subject to the teachings of false prophets
Teffmonster 4 years ago
According to you, of course. I would say that you are subject to the false teachings of men as a consequence of the apostasy, else why so many "christian" churches?? If the "original" church lasted, shouldn't you be Catholic?
TheMole1979 4 years ago
you sad sad person!!!
alby451 4 years ago
Why do you charaterise the christian church as being diverse? If you understood chruch history you would know that the origins of Catholicism is different to that of Christianity. Catholicism is pagan, they might use the same names, but it is not the same God because of misunderstanding the nature of God and the requirements of salvation. Same mistake being made by mormons. God does not live on a planet next to Kolob - Joe Smith was making fun of you. Spell 'Kolob' backwards
Teffmonster 4 years ago
Look guys, there is no proof whatsoever to the existance of any Nephite civilisation in America, no battle fought at Hill cumorrah (otherwise it would have been excavated), because the stories were made up. Listen, only the levitical priesthood could make burnt offerings - why then Lehi (from the tribe of Judah) built a stone alter and make one? It was blasphemy and abhorrent to the Lord. Joe Smith didn't understand the scriptures and made up his own
Teffmonster 4 years ago
Modern christianity is a product of reformation of the original church, which is where Catholicism claims derivation as well. Don't be ignorant about history. Nearly all Christianity is an off shoot group that broke away from Catholicism.
TheMole1979 4 years ago
Nearly all... can you name the factions that are original, and how they differ to 'mainstream christianity'. I'm not too sure you can
Teffmonster 4 years ago
EH WRONG! Roman Catholicism used to be Pagan Roman religion. Christianity was just that, Christianity. The roman church took over christians and when the christians taught in contrary of the catholic church, they were burned and crucified and beheaded. Thus the time of the "dark ages" or the "inquisition"
sevensealsofgod 4 years ago
i am a returned missionary 43 years old, married in the temple. Born and raised in "the church".
Let me state for the record the lds church is a cult. They perfomed blood oathes up until 1990(which i was naive enough to participate in)
Do not join this church, look into the history of the church and how they change doctrines. Look at section 132 of the doctrine and covenants, they still believe in polygamy. They believe we can all become gods and godesses.
zingalind 4 years ago
still bitter??? jsut because you may have been excommunicated doent mean you cant come back you know its true dont deny that your just scared to really admit your wrong
alby451 4 years ago
not the same god. Not at all. Watch the banned cartoon....
Jesus and Lucifer brothers? LOL!!!
inachu 4 years ago
Youtube isn't the place for religous belief, do you have your own thoughts about the truth and want to say them on somwhere it was meant for? (freewebs dot com/avcdebate)
Lowellrichardlowe3rd 4 years ago
Nice VIDEO! ♣
GenesisHoaxAboutAdam 4 years ago
Per 11:19-39. . .how convenient!
Oophorectomy 4 years ago
unless of course you are implying that he was using the 'heathen source' to bend the gospel in order to convert the people. then, i would have to disagree. if that was the case, then the people could not be converted to the real gospel dont you agree?
darthmills 4 years ago
oh ok. lets read that again shall we... the heathen source.. as ALSO certain of your poets have said... "also" he is saying here that that is true, we are the offspring of God. at least our spirits are. God is not stone or graven by men... He is our Father. Our bodies are created in His image and likeness. That means He has a shape that is like ours.the Only He is greater than us. i agree, he was using it to help them understand the true Gospel... By using truth to do so.
darthmills 4 years ago
yes you should read it again Paul was quoting the poets in the beginning of the verse "for in him we live & move & have our being" then he says "ALSO your poets have said we are also his offspring"
Then he uses a conditional fraise "forasmuch then". You have no ground to stand on here, this issue is based simply what you want this verse to say!
Image does not always constitute shape, & your god is no greater than any other finite sapient being.
shawnprpr 4 years ago
Excellent video. There needs to be a lot more debates like this one. We should all put our faith to the test to explore and find the truth.
blacksac916 4 years ago
This is an interesting video. I too have argued this point with Mainstream Christians and I believe I have a very defensible position. I found it fascinating that they (the Presbyterians) believe that God is 3 person united in One. I didn't know that. Do they also believe in Predestination? that God chooses for us what we do?
aarongatescarlton 4 years ago
My Bren gather round my feet, it is time to teach you some LDS lessons.
SethAdamSmiths 4 years ago
lol. that is exactly it. religion cannot be proven by man. however, i could prove that mormonism is Biblical. to find out if mormonism or even the Bible is true is something everyone must do for themselves.
darthmills 4 years ago
Take you out of context? I'd prefer to just take you out, period.
-spoken by a true Christian.
furthermore, i do not believe you have or are even able to disprove anything.
darthmills 4 years ago
the belief that man may become as God is not new, as you admit many pagan religions believe it. however, according to the bible, all pagan beliefs stemmed from an original religion. Christianity in the Bible definately teaches that man may recieve exaltation and become equal to God the Father. He is our Father after all.
darthmills 4 years ago
Men becoming gods is not a new Idea "ye shall be as gods" was one of the first things Satan said to man.
The God of the Bible is first God that created all things not procreated. That is why one can "BECOME" a child of God. We are first his creation not eternal beings that's secular humanism.
You get man becoming a god when you isolate and pervert verses in the Bible.
shawnprpr 4 years ago
yes, satan did say that "ye shall be as gods" later on, God said that man had become as he (actually says they) are. "man has become one of us" many places in the Bible state that we are God's children, we are the offspring of God. We existed before we were born as spirits in heaven. the Bible also states that. The Bible also says that we do not know exactly what we will become in the resurrection and see God, but that we do know that we will be like Him for we will see Him as He is.
darthmills 4 years ago
Yes, man in the sense of knowing good & evil became like God, such a story only makes sense as a created being, not procreated. If procreated we would naturally be children of our father, but man is naturally the enemy to God.
Your quotes are not quoted very well. When the bible said we are the offspring of God the full quote was by Paul who was himself quoting the philosophers of that area & said to them "AS MUCH AS we are the offspring of God we should not think of him as gold & silver."
shawnprpr 4 years ago
you are right on with what Paul said. God is not gold, silver or any graven image. He is our Father. We are His children. we are the offspring of God.
darthmills 4 years ago
Yes, but you just can't seem to remember to put the "As much as we are" into your quote. It's probably because it would change the meaning of what you are trying to convince people of. Here is an example: "for as much as" we are gods in embryo let us not think to call God, God for then we are self's are Gods. I neither confirmed nor denied being a god; I simply tried correcting you with your own doctrine.
shawnprpr 4 years ago
for as much as we are the offspring of God.. it really does not change the meaning. are you implying that it lessens the meaning of us being His offspring? I would say that it strengthens it to say "As much as we are" As much as we are the offspring of God, let us not think that he is a graven image made of stone, gold or silver... He is our Father and we are His children. We are made in His image. He is alive "as much as" we are.
darthmills 4 years ago
I'm not implying, I telling you. The reason Paul spoke to these people like this, is because he was quoting there own poets. For example your poets have said: we are the children of god "as much as we are the children of god let us not think of god as god and silver" What Paul was saying would make no sense if he wasn't coming to them with there own teachings.
I can see this is not sinking in with you, hopefully others will understand.
shawnprpr 4 years ago
oh i get it now! paul is using a false doctrine to support real doctrine. give me a break. that is ridiculous. nowhere does it say that he is quoting poets. lets look at some more writings of paul.
Romans 8:16-17 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
darthmills 4 years ago
No where huh? Did you try looking at the verse before it that says: "your own poets have said"?
Romans 8:16-17 Great! Another example of how you isolate a verse to make it say what you want.
Try reading a few verses before "as many as are led by the spirit of God, they are the sons of God... receiving the spirit of adoption" So your example has only proven to show you false. We are created not procreated.
shawnprpr 4 years ago
ok, i see.. some of their poets said that we are the offspring of God. Well? It seems to me that Paul is also supportive of that belief. "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain ALSO of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring." He uses it to support the doctrine that God is not a graven image but He is alive. He is our Father. Pretty clear to me.
darthmills 4 years ago
"Pretty clear to you?" yesterday you didn't even know what the verse before this one said.
Yes, he is using it to show that God is not a graven image but not necessarily that we are a result of his procreative actions. Instead of assuming such teachings from one verse look to the rest of the bible & see that man can "BECOME" a child of God through "ADOPTION".
shawnprpr 4 years ago
i understand and am fully aware that there are verses stating that man can become a child of God. In this sense, it is meaning that we accept Him as our Father, spiritually. By accepting Jesus Christ as our Savior and believing on Him and His Gospel, we become His children in that we look to Him for guidance and knowing that we are His children and have the potential to RETURN to Him. It does not imply that He was not our Father of our spirits before, but rather an acceptance of that.
darthmills 4 years ago
for the sake of misinterpretation, let me clarify my statement.. that by accepting Jesus Christ and His Gospel, We become God's children. (seems as though i said children of Jesus)
darthmills 4 years ago
Why not, that's what the Book of Mormon says Mosiah 5:7
shawnprpr 4 years ago
clearly, we can "become" the sons and daughters of God by accepting the fact that He is our Father, we obtain a closeness, a relationship with Him as opposed to rejecting Him. We live His Gospel and "become" His children. However, this does not mean that we were not His children beforehand, as He is the Father of our spirits.
darthmills 4 years ago
We BECOME children of God that's what makes him the father of our spirits. God could be called Father of all creation this is why God is our father. You're seriously trying to tell me, some alien on Kolob procreated humanity? If that's true it's not God becoming our Father, its making your (Alien) father your god. That makes about as much sense as making your earthly father your god.
-You don't become something you already are.
shawnprpr 4 years ago
I understand, but there's still a lack of biblical foundation of the Idea that man is literally procreated by God.
By RETURNING to Him it does not imply that God is not the literal creator (not procreator) of our existence.
shawnprpr 4 years ago
The Bible says that God is the Father of our spirits. Paul affirms that we are His offspring. God is the creator of our mortal bodies and the Father of our spirits.
darthmills 4 years ago
Then your god is not God just like your earthly father wouldn't be God. Your god is a man, literally, he is nothing more than you or I am, he just knows more, like your earthly father.
shawnprpr 4 years ago
Another example: Your prophets have said: "it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament" (D&C 27) forasmuch as it matters not what you eat or drink for sacrament let us not think that saying the exact words are any more important.
I believe it is important what is taken for communion, but not what is exactly said. I have shown you a double standard of truth in your church just like Paul did in Corinth.
shawnprpr 4 years ago
what is more important than anything is what is in your heart. However, I humbly believe that the sacrament prayer is important because it covers the grounds of what the Savior said that the experience is all about.
darthmills 4 years ago
This wasn't the point I was trying to make, but if you want to go it cool.
Your churches revelation was to reveal that what you partake of in sacrament didn't matter & yet you will re-say a prayer until you get it word for word right. What is said is important but word for word is not nesisary to focus on what is in your heart. The symbols in sacrament are important & you have traded the wine of the New Covenant with water.
shawnprpr 4 years ago
now, all throughout the Bible God is refered to as our Father and we are referred to as His children. I'm sorry, but i cannot see Paul also teaching this if it were not true. He would not blend in false teachings with true ones to try to save someones soul. if he were, then his purpose was defeated.
darthmills 4 years ago
Anyone objectively looking at the Bible knows it teaches one can "BECOME" Gods child; it is conditional by "ADOPTION" This is what Paul taught & only by taking isolated verses can you deviate from that truth in the bible. To say "forasmuch as" is also conditional
One could say God is the Father of all creation that doesn't mean all creation is his offspring.
shawnprpr 4 years ago
Although, we are all Gods children collectively, Adam and Eve were created, true. The bodies of everyone and every animal were created. What makes humankind different than animals is that our bodies were created in the same image and likeness as the body that God has. The fact that He created our body does not take away from the fact that our spirits were with Him in premortal life.
darthmills 4 years ago
Is that it, our bodies are what make us different than animals? Our minds are what make us different than the animals, not the shape of our bodies.
Again this is all from your other books & teachers, not the Bible. The bible tells of a God who fills heaven & earth, which stands outside of time space, not a glorified man/alien having sex on Kolob
shawnprpr 4 years ago
or course our bodies are not the only thing that make us different from animals. not only our minds either, it is our spirit that makes us different, in conjunction with the body that God created for us which is fashioned after the image and likeness of His.
darthmills 4 years ago
Even if you're right here, our bodies are sill not like his. Your god has an exalted body or an immortal one & well... we don't.
Are you saying God has a body of flesh & bone as tangible as mans? Such an Idea is not biblical in fact it is warned against in the bible Romans 1:23.
Such a god, if real, is merely an alien, or a superior humanoid. How can you call that God?
shawnprpr 4 years ago
God does have a body of flesh and bone. We are made after His image. Jesus also has a body of flesh and bone that He ascended to Heaven with. Jesus is the express image of God, He looks just like Him and has a body just like Him. He is our Father, we are His offspring. Why wouldnt He have a body?
darthmills 4 years ago
If you want to worship an alien on another planet fine but it's not Biblical. The Bible makes it Clear that God is not a body of flesh and bone. Matt 16:17 1 Cor 15:50 Luke 24:39 Jer 23:24 2 Ch 2:6 Rom 1:23 1 Tim 6:16.
"Why wouldn't he have a body," Seriously? Because He's God, & isn't subject to the laws of this universe, time, nor space; the universe is subject to Him. All things are not from eternity, only God is.
shawnprpr 4 years ago
The Bible does not say that God does not have a body of flesh and bone. In fact the scripture from Luke you sent me is Jesus in resurected form stating that He has a body of flesh and bone (that He took with Him to Heaven) Other scripture you quoted states 'flesh and blood' is not found in Heaven. This is true. ressurected bodies do not have blood in them. They are quickened by the spirit. God knows all, so obviously you cannot hide from Him. The Holy Ghost however, does not have a body.
darthmills 4 years ago
Yes Jesus was raised with a body of flesh & bone but it is His glorified body like the one on the mount of transfiguration that he resides in heaven with. Matt 17 Christ isn't some glowing man he is the expression of the infinite God of which heaven and earth flee from His face Rev 20:11
Flesh & blood, that means flesh, & also blood, just because your god doesn't have blood that doesn't mean its ok to have the flesh.
shawnprpr 4 years ago
flesh does not nessessarily have to have blood. not all flesh is the same flesh... immorta