Hardball: Michelle Bernard vs Cecile Richards on Lilly Ledbetter

[Goohuman]

This is just Chris giving Cecile practice on air with a lightweight.

Birds of a feather...

Michelle makes valid points, but stammers through them reducing her image with those just barely listening.

[YoungnRomantic]

@Goohuman I agre that she should've been more vocal in her points that she ws making but they were valid ones. The feminist on the other side that was siding with that mangina Chris Matthews, is a joke. Her facts were quite humorous and untrue. WOmen don't get paid 78 cents on the dollar compared to men. That is a lie.

[Goohuman]

@YoungnRomantic Agreed. Chris has lost much of his credibility and basically preaches to his own. If you are selected to go on his show, just be clear and make strong points. Let Chris and his fellow liberals defend against the obvious flaws in logic and reason. The audience is almost exclusively liberal.

[antidoteco]

Cecile is such a NASTY bitch - ewww...where is the brown soap to wash the memory of that cunt out of my memory

[Mr40acresandamule]

Chris Matthews made a good point. Female dominated professions are paid the lowest. I am a male teacher and the profession is dominated by women. If more males went into education, teacher salaries would rise. It is interesting that there are more male principals then females. Principals make more money, but it is the teacher who is down in the trenches.

[js2040]

Jeremiah 1:5- "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you". This is super clear,I is God and you is somebody NOT something!

[ROCKORPHAN]

I love her

[yodaswamp1]

Michel please tell us why you are a psychic?

[Product1999]

ok women feel free to rip me a new one on this because i may or may not be making an a-hole point.....but women have babies and get pregnant and get paid months off from work.....men don't get pregnant and the company does not have to foot the bill for the months off....single women should make an agreement not to have a child in the tenure of their work with a company otherwise it is a burden on the company..

[wildn0102]

Remember this michelle lady is one confused crazy bat.... She supports sarah palin because she can relate to her as a mother? But supports President Obama because he's African American? All she wants is T.V. time and she gets it by making selfish comments like this. She will go on black talk radio and you would think it's Angela Davis. She gets in front of ole motor mouth on MSNBC she wants to be "indepedent"? This lady is a fraud, I have never like her or that melon head Jamelle Hill.

[BakedSouse]

She voted for Obama.

[wildn0102]

Yeah, and tell me about the world being flat! What does that that have to do with her being a hypocrite! You know I said the same thing about Steele and he's proven me right. They will say what is politically correct, at that time, to be popular! Maybe she did vote for Obama. We will never know. Her political ideology tells me different.

[BakedSouse]

Don't be so uptight. All I said was that she voted for Obama. A lot of Republicans crossed over and voted for Obama. Sedative... if you will.

[wildn0102]

Did those words get to ya?

[BakedSouse]

Uhh, were they supposed to?

[wildn0102]

Trust me folk, I don't try to get at people I don't even know!

[SpanishForkOutcast]

See, if women would just do what Michelle Bernard did, sell out other women and become a conservative pundit I'm sure they'd make more money.

[SpanishForkOutcast]

Michelle's point are all bullshit. If the courts decide the individual cases are without merits they will throw them out. Women should be paid equally for equal work and the whole time limit was arbitrary and capricious.  If employers treat people equally they won't be penalized.

[areki38]

What is this Michelle Bernhard talking about, I don't get it at all.

[chinacat22]

wtf is chris mathews babbling about. Michelle and the other girl were making some good points and having an intelligent conversation and then he started babbling. I think everyone in the news today just loves to hear themselves talk. Do these idiots get paid by the word? Strange.

[tigerone1970]

Employers are mandated to maximize profits. This means they will pay their employees as little as they can get away with.

Which is why the 'free market' will not provide protection against discrimination.

[johnedwards1968]

Male nurses make more than female nurses. Michelle Bernard is just wrong.

[zzzxxyy]

Women should be paid equally, should have ben for years. The same way minorities should be paid equally as well. I will agree only for comparable work. Michelle Barnard thinks she's white, and her organization is bunk; you can't be an independant organization, yet hold far right views.

[Realizalize]

michelles points aren`t acurate.

position is: man does a job, women comes and earns less, then a man gets her job and gets more than her again. same job same everything.

worldwide steadily.

a lib. makes the case for the contract ppl signthough...

look back some time and see what happened to so called feminists that refused the daily ass spank...

I guess usa is quite pc on that ,but those ppl are still around. the law changed but the machos haven`t...

[rehanshaikh1234]

Can you back that up with some kind of stats.....I agree with Michelle. This is just alot of propaganda and the point she raised about neurosurgeons and nurses was dead on in my view.

[Realizalize]

not in the mom/ent

;talks have been there 30 years ago

it is kind of common knowledge.

somewhere in scandinavia ,, you can look up how much someone earns. everyone-everyone elses,... king , primeminister,....all

It was also the case in handcrafts women assumed to be better in....earned less.

the one who hand out contracts also know,

not to mention my female relatives all do the washing, cooking, children care, household and stuff.

[wildn0102]

You should check her out when she on the Warren Ballentine show at times. You would think she was Angela Davis. She gets on MSMBC all of a sudden she becomes "independent". I'm not making this up. She telling you want you want to hear. Trust me, this lady is a FRAUD. I am not advertising for Mr. Ballentine (The # 1 Truth Fighter) but check Ms. wannabe Harriet Tubman on his show and you will see.

[jer4703]

Hot woman should be paid more then men! :P

[hippieCy08]

I agree with andid....give me science any day not b.s. of a sexist anthropological argument that has little 2 do with reality. When women in America today far surpass their men in Engineering, Medicine, etc in term of enrollment and achievement....its absurd to pay them less.

heck, today we are more concerned with boys and how they are far behind girls in academic achievement.

[hippieCy08]

waltermh11: "If women want to be on equal grounds, why should men have to limit themselves so that women can become "equal"

so let me get this: Women getting paid EQUALLY for doing the same work men do = men feeling limited?

are men that weak and lacking in brain capacity...to feel 'LIMITED' when their female counterpart get paid for what they earned like men....instead of it being based on whether one have a vagina instead of a penis?

[Guitarjam07]

agreed

[Guitarjam07]

we are all equal in the eyes of God but not in out abilities.

[baronmorris]

I'm SO proud of Obama so far.

Michelle Bernard is a douchette.

[GenLaughingMan]

Michelle makes some very good points

This new law will just be abused by women who think they deserve just the same amount of money as men, but dont want to put in the work to do it

At my place of work, everyone starts at teh same rate, no exceptions

If corporations could get away paying less for the same job, they'd do it more

If you dont negotiate for a better rate of pay, whose fault is it

And lets stop the 78 cents of what a man makes deal

[GenLaughingMan]

That stat is when you compare the more dangerous jobs mostly men undertake to what jobs women do, and then they add part time jobs to further skew the numbers

And also, the laws are not bias like they were then, affirmative action has helped women get more jobs then black men, but its still not enough?

If you chose a soft, low paying occupation, thats on you, learn to accept and deal with it

[swankrecords]

Women don't deserve rights. It's a man's world. Is my spelling correct?

[Guitarjam07]

one more thing i wanted to say is women tend to do better in some areas while men tend to do better in other areas therefore each gender will excel in different fields for the most part. That already means they arent equal. Im not saying one is better of worse but women will for the most part get paid more in their fields of comfort while men in theirs. So the idea of equal pay is i think impractical. Im not talking about individual cases but in general .

[waltermh111]

Thats a management issue, pure and simple, therefore way off topic.

[Guitarjam07]

My point is people should get paid according to the amount of work they get done, not according to their sex. If a woman is getting more work done then she should be paid more than the man who isnt doing much. Works both ways i guess..

[waltermh111]

I think most of us agree with you there, but you ignore that in many cases thats not how its decided

Ledbetter had more experience then her male counterparts, was teaching them things to do and likely therefore doing more, but getting paid less

It may be because she wasnt as ambitious or aggressive as they are, and thats her fault and I take no side on the issue because I have no problem fighting for what I want, but we have to understand that this isnt about getting paid the same to work less

[Guitarjam07]

well i wasn't the only male working there and the others had to do the same so you are gonna make a sexist point for the female side... ic

[Guitarjam07]

I worked my ass off doing some heavy lifting every day for this delivery job.. had to load a a few tons of stuff on a truck by myself and was paid as much as the women who were working inside the store working at the register or doing minimal amount of work.. i just don't see how thats fair..

[WhyNotTruth]

...because they are more friendly and welcoming than you are. If you worked up at the register, there would be less repeat customers because you simply would not do as good of a job. That's why it's fair.

[waltermh111]

The issue isnt about pay between 2 different job titles, though the repub here keeps acting like it is.

Its about different pay scale between genders within the same job title.

Besides, as was pointed out, its preffered to have good people skills to talk with customers, if you think you have what it takes to tolerate customer service, dont complain, switch.

I would be much happier in your position though, I hate people, so to me, physical labor is the easier job.

[Guitarjam07]

will its not always possible to switch, the owner said thats a job for the women..

[47f0]

Michelle (why does that name cause conservative female brain damage?) is shooting airballs. As a former employer, I wouldn't hesitate to employ qualified women, and I have no fear that I'll be in court in twenty years - I paid by merit.

The real truth is, Michelle supports the greedy conservative demand for a slave class, and like all these cannibalistic piranhas, she cares nothing for women - she got hers, screw everyone else. The Republican motto, slogan and oath in a nutshell.

[andid]

I'm sure it's just a COINCIDENCE that teachers, nurses, secretaries, and almost all female-associated jobs are historically underpaid.

I guess that's just the "supply and demand" of economics, as the Repub lady would say.

[waltermh111]

Well, I find the issue to be tougher to figure out because I dont take an emotional view of things.

I want to mention something worth thinking about. Its historical because men will fight for what they want, we by nature are more aggressive and ambitious.

Women throgh history have always had the same ability as men to fight for better pay.

For instance, how many men dont know what their fellow worker makes.

She didnt seem to care enough to figure out where she stands her whole time there.

[andid]

I don't take an emotional view, I take a factual, observational view. Women through history have never had the same ability as men to fight for better pay. 60 years ago it was still shameful to even have them in the work place, let alone be equals. Read some books please.

[waltermh111]

You are missing the point, exactly because your taking the emotional side of the equation, that women are to be defended, but you would never consider the need to defend men in a situation.

That is my point, women havent been in the situation to fight equally with men, but why?

Because of men? Its natural for men to fight for things, and unnatural for women to.

Men are born more aggressive, ambitious, competitive, and with a greater focus on single tasking.

[waltermh111]

If women want to be on equal grounds, why should men have to limit themselves so that women can become "equal".

Maybe instead, women that want something should take those same qualities that put us ahead of them and beat us.

You are asking one gender to limit their natural qualities so another gender, who you are basically calling the weaker gender, can compete.

Thats sexist against men, which makes you a hypocrite.

[waltermh111]

If women can do anything that men can do, why cant they fight for better pay at same level men can, or start woman focused businesses at same level that men can?

To end, you refuse to ask the question of why women have less ability to fight then men, which then needs the question, if women can do anything men cant, how did men get this greater ability to fight in nearly every culture throughout history?

Then you can figure out how to fix things without sexism against either side

[andid]

I would consider the need to defend men in this situation if men had been seen as the inferior species for the last few MILLENIA.

Gender behavior would have a slight impact, but if you want to pretend like men and women have gotten a fair shake throughout civilization you're either naive or totally uninformed. Even if our abilities are total opposites, which I don't think is as true as you want to think, they still deserve equal pay for equal work.

[waltermh111]

But they hadnt, and I was talking about in this world, not an alternate one where we have the estrogen and the female gender has the testosterone and other hormones that control much of our behaviors.

Gender behavior has a huge impact on how we react to most situations.

You know nothing of genetics do you?

You still arent asking how it came to be that in the large majority of civilisations women have gotten an unfair bit in life when it coems to business.

When will you try to learn?

[andid]

When will I try to learn? I have a major in Biology with an emphasis in genetics, thank you very much. There are some minor differences in brain chemistry, muscle tissue, and gamete production but that's about it.

There are many females who are "aggressive, ambitious, competitive" and have "greater focus on single tasking. " too, men who don't fit their stereotypical behavior, etc. There are also many jobs that demand team building and multi-tasking, and those jobs are just as difficult.

[bbbbmer]

i can't believe pres. obama signed the ledbetter law, and did so personally!!! god bless him!!! and to HELL with the women's independent forum, which has no relation to REAL women, and should be exposed as noneother thann a GOP front.... LILY LEDBETTER iis HEROINeE!!! FOR AMERIDCANS!!!

[sylviasoven]

What a repulsive woman. I can't believe that she's actually getting equal-ish time.

[heathr456]

Agreed. She's Michelle Malkin lite.

[OneoftheImmortals]

Expect to see people of color, mostly woman, replace all the old spin doctors of the Republican party.

[OneoftheImmortals]

The Republicans new strategy is to have woman of color talking against everything President Obama does and will do.

Make no mistake, it is the the good ol' boys behind these mouthpieces. It was disgraceful when rich old white men did it and it is more disgraceful having woman of color speak for them.

[eljefereal]

and look at the hell Title IX has cause colleges.

[hippieCy08]

uuumm, if your standard of men are 'superior' to women is based on sports......then Roman ancient Olympic must have been the height of human civilization.

your argument has neither bearing on Science nor on Social Science. However, if it makes you feel adequate enuf....by all means spew the sexist crap.

[heathr456]

By what standard of the land of your ass did you pull that statistic from? Men are sharper? Says who? More energy? Says who? They're stronger when it comes to physical labor in general, but not always. That's it. You are making some very broad generalizations that don't hold up in individual cases and painting a very broad sexist brush.

[heathr456]

And for good measure, I'm a woman who has worked in a male dominated field for over twenty years and in a union, and had men tell me I'd never be able to do my job and proved them wrong. Since we had a union I didn't have to worry about pay discrimination. I'm a shop steward and earned the respect of my co-workers and did my job as well or better than the men I worked with. You have no clue what you're talking about and sound a lot like the sexists I worked with twenty some years ago.

[Jettie12]

Eh, I suspect the Fair Pay Law is anything but fair.

[eljefereal]

From what I understand, it makes it easier for an employee to file a discrimination charge.

Old law was that you have 180 days from when the discrimination started (i.e. the first uneven check) to file, which meant you were SOL if you found out about it later.

Now, you have 180 days from the most recent uneven check.

That's the extent of the law.

[Jettie12]

Sounds simple enough, but I have a nagging feeling this will only hurt women more than help them.

[hippieCy08]

another thing, Michelle logic is such a b.s....if we were 2 take her argument.....entertainer or athletes get paid much more = their work is more valuable and they earn it.....while actual profession like teaching, nursing, heck even lawyers doing the same exact job....women are being paid less.

even female athletes earn less than their fellow male counterpart....even though some of them are much better.

[HaydeeKajefa]

Michelle Bernard is full of crap. She makes no sense.

[fashizze]

michelle's a "conservative"independent ...go figure

[hippieCy08]

why the only women or 'Minority' Republicans attract are either 2 stupid to comprehend basic polysci 101...or sound like the talking head of bigotry long gone?