Falling Fast Part 5 - Air Crash Investigation/Mayday

[gomile1000]

So what were the people at fault charged?

[ntxguy]

What they did to the pilots is clearly way unfair. That would most likely never happen in the U.S. and is indicative of a big cultural difference between our countries. At most suspend their licenses or something. The mechanics maybe punish just a little harder.

[humango8]

Geat videos keep it up !!!!!  ;)

[Cuminfromtech]

You guys it's not the captains fault. This doesn't happen every day it's like not buckling your seatbelt when you drive across the parking lot. It's not very far and you don't think anything would happen because Nothing like this ever happened to you. So you can't blame the captain it's just the way we humans are

[Summonearth]

Though Captain Garbi probably deserves to be thrown into jail, he at least ditched the way a plane suppose to be ditched, saving more lives, at least according to the video anyway...

[HittokiriBatosai]

I'm not one to play the race card too often, but I think it's pretty clear what's happening here... the crew were all Tunisian Muslims, the passengers were all Italians. The captain, after doing everything he could, took a moment just before hitting the water to pray for his safety and the safety of the plane to the god he believes in. This was brought up in court to paint him as a crazy zealot who lost all attachments to the corporeal world and start hysterically praying to Allah.

[HittokiriBatosai]

@HittokiriBatosai I guarantee you, if he was an Italian praying to Mary rather than an Arab Muslim praying to Allah, he'd be hailed as a hero who saved 23 lives. Not a villain who killed 16...

[dis14u]

alot of none pilots

[dcs002]

There are no emergency takeoffs, only emergency landings. Before the captain encountered an emergency, he committed an (illegal) act of severe negligence by leaving the gate without verifying fuel. He was not dealing with an engine-out emergency or radio distractions when he deviated from regulations (which pilots are only allowed to do after declaring an emergency). The captain and dispatcher are responsible for that plane becoming airborne. They did not have this emergency inflicted on them.

[dcs002]

The pilot in command chooses to put himself in his position - airborne, unverified fuel, & 39 souls in his hands. No one made him do that - he chose it. How do you not verify fuel? I was a part 121 dispatcher (20 years ago), and I would NEVER sign off on a flight when fuel was in question. FQI problems the previous day make any fuel issues a major red flag. Call the fuelers! Ask! I've done that!

And how do you not feather the prop? Wasn't that a step in the ditching checklist? If not, why not?

[125RTY]

The pilot left the airport on a promise that he will get the fueling receipt when he came back. But I do agree that the pilot and some passengers did survived and the fact that some passengers died is enough guilt for the pilot and he should not suffer further in jail. 

[Armigo91]

@125RTY

Suffering in jail for not choosing the proper actions to safe other peoples lives. The pilots were under enough pressure. What justice is their for a pilot whom discovers he might inevitably lose other peoples live that day. Penalty or jail is for those who kill people on own will,

So why was it even on your mind to think about.

We are already sending people to jail for doing nothing wrong. Add this and we make complete babboons of ourselves.

[dcs002]

@Armigo91 Captain Garbi did much more than "not choosing the proper actions." He CHOSE to commit a very serious IMPROPER action by becoming airborne without verifying fuel. He was an active agent in bringing about this disaster, not a passive victim who mishandled an emergency. Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around, but who put that plane in the air? Not the mechanics. There are no emergency takeoffs...

[kiingAli]

@dcs002 agree ! u cant ignore a single rule when it comes to flying tin canes flying thousands of feet above ground from where if something goes wrong the only possible outcome is a terrible death. but then again Garbi was a bit unlucky when the mechanic messed things further. in the end i would say this was inevitable. with a faulty fuel guage this plane was bound to crash someday if not on that particular flight and lucky that they were flying over sea that day and some people did survive.

[dcs002]

@kiingAli Given the fuel gauge design, I can understand why the mechanic made such a tragic error, but I can't understand why the captain, the last line of defense, and the one ultimately responsible for putting the plane in the air, did so when he knew the plane's fuel status was an open question. Yes, contributing factors converged around Captain Garbi, but he saw them. He chose to fly anyway. That's dereliction of his highest duty. (His dispatcher is equally responsible in this case.)

[kiingAli]

@dcs002 when i say this disaster was inevetable is because of this. supose on a given day the fuel guage shows 6 thousand KG of fuel for a flight that requires 4 thousand KG of fuel but the actual amount of fuel is 3 thousand KG in the tank. now the pilot takes the flight and mid way he's gona crash. u just cant have faulty fuel guages because no fuel means crash. had the pilot refuled that day it would not have hapened but down the line it was bound to happen someday. mechanic is as guilty.

[dcs002]

@kiingAli Your example is missing one important item. Suppose the day before the fuel gauge had read 3,000 kg, but today it reads 6,000, and the only thing that happened overnight was that the fuel gauge had been replaced. No record of fueling could be found. That is what Captain Garbi and his dispatcher chose to ignore. I agree, the mechanic is responsible as a contributing factor, but he simply made a mistake that anyone could have made due to the design. Garbi knowingly broke the rules.

[dcs002]

I agree that this type of ATR-72 fuel starvation accident was inevitable because of the bad design, not because this particular mechanic was unusually incompetent. In this case, had Garbi followed the rules and refused to take off until his fuel status was resolved there's every chance the incorrect fuel gauge might have been discovered and replaced. In no case should it have left the gate without being resolved. That was a conscious decision, a violation, made only by Garbi & his dispatcher.

[125RTY]

There is plenty of blame to go around. There is engineering laziness. They made two different fuel gauges that could fit perfectly in either type airplanes. On consumer electronics, that may be good feature but on airplanes that is another accident waiting to happen. The technicians who installed the fuel gauges didn’t recheck what they were installing. 

[tranquillofdarkness]

If the pilots even knew that they really were out of fuel they would have focused on gliding as far as possible. But with the wrong fuel gauge on the plane, it read as if they still had plenty of fuel and thus they focused on restarting the engines. How is this the pilot's fault? God that judge is vindictive. The pilots did everything by the book based on their understanding of the situation.

[Thesharples88]

How fucking dare the Judge says that the pilot should be charged, that man is a hero :/

[stewartx5]

Pilot & co-pilot should not have been jailed (8-10 years) for manslaughter. Crews are repeatedly told to trust the instruments. This crew did exactly that (believing the fuel guage & trying to restart engines), thus did not consider alternative emergency procedures. Saying, based on simulator, he "could possibly have" reached the airport is hogwash. Ditching plane was the reasonable choice. Pilot's short prayer, brought up during trial, did not change that reality.

[tatterscott5]

which idiot judge said that the pilot should be charged? all he ever did was try to ditch the plane and he did that perfectly.

[funfrmekik]

grt pilot, we salute!

[themrviolaman]

The pilot shouldn't of went to prison. He might of been able to glide but the mechanic should be shot because he killed everyone on board that died and he got the same punishment that the captain got.

[455200930]

screw the law the pilots did all they can, under the circumstances its hard even for  expert pilots to make no mistakes.

[GOL4567]

The companies are 99% responsible for plane accidents because their policies, but when something wrong happens the crew or staff get always the blame.

[TheDaylightMidnight]

So the wrong fuel indicator was installed.. and the co-pilot(as stated in Wikipedia) and pilot pays the same price as the men who installed it? Somehow, I feel even though they did they right thing, they'll be damned either ways. But hey, that's just me.

[Ageyiptus]

From the evidence that was heard on the CVR and the data that the investigation found, there is no way that jailing the flight crew is justifiable. Other pilots stated that it would have been an extremely difficult situation "in real time". Someone needs to explain that to the Italian Government. I wonder why they would make such a ridiculous judgement. The Captain didn't install the wrong fuel indicator.

[searchanddiscover]

These pilots were damed if they do damed if they didn't. They would have gotten in trouble had they waited for the receipt because "time is money". Then they get in trouble for trying to land a crippled plane with what little information they had and a instrument error. When they used the simulator, did they stop and realize that had he continued, it could have still been catastrophic, not all crashes end like Gimli Glider (Air Canada), US Airways, and Air Transat.

[churchillbros]

R.I.P, you poor people:(



[churchillbros]

R.I.P, you poor people:(:(:(:(

[amonre1000]

holy sht

the pilots got 10 years

[amonre1000]

1.install the wrong fuel indicator showing the wrong numbers

2.sue the captain. good work folks.

fukn geniuses..

[HsingG32]

in my opinion blaming the captain is a bit too much. those airline want to make money and make as many flight as possible in one day, and now u want the captain to sit there maybe for 1 or 2 hours to wait the maintenance crew and find the receipt of adding fuel???

[getbonus]

i'm not a pilot, so i have no idea, but it would be interesting to know how many pilots would delay takeoff until they found the refueling slip. "sorry folks, lost my receipt, we're just gonna sit on the tarmac indefinitely until it turns up." people have little to no tolerance for that sort of thing.

[pezal223]

bull shit the engineer and the company should take the blame the pilot seen the ships and thought best when are companys going to stop making pilots take the blame when trying to do there job

[grmalx]

One more thing ... Should the cpt refused to depart does anyone think that anyone on the ground found out that wrong gauge ??? Tell you what ... This crash was created the moment the engineer at atr designed the same fitting for the fuel gauges on 42 and 72... But thats too much to ask from a prosecutor or a judge or passesngers to actualy understand....

[grmalx]

What is realy scary is that there are prosecutors and judges that blame the pilot (cpt) for departing without that refueling sheet. Why not blaming the pilot for earthquakes in china ... Because is the same ... Put the blame on the pilots you fking idots cause they are the ones to blame... Where as the ATR engineers that created the fuel gauge sit at home... Niiice... And one more thing ... Why not create a fuel gauge with at72 reading for the atr 42 and at42 for the atr 72.... Lets make it eas

[VinylShellacLover]

Would it have been too much to ask for ATR to label the fuel gauges "ATR 72" and "ATR 42" instead of that 2500 or 2250 code (IIRC) ? The suggestion made at the end of the segment is even better, though...

[Airlinesguyrulz]

@VinylShellacLover Remember from AmericanConnection 4184 that ATR won't ever take blame for anything.

[ericsbuds]

dying in a plane crash would be bad, but i would be freaking out if i was underwater and could not get unbuckled or out of the cabin. scary.

[xterumixxkusunokix]

@MinimeDrummerBoi

it's a policy to not depart without a refueling slip, for situations exactly like these

he didn't follow regulation and shouldn't have left without it in the first place.

[x11115]

in a commerical plane they are supposed to know and follow emergency procedures. alhough I understand the pressure part but they are supposed to be trained for that so the pressure is amplified from impropper training.

[md65000]

It's so easy to fucking judge people after the fact when you really have no idea what it's like to be in that situation or whether you'd react the same way. God I hate Monday morning quarterbacks!

[xterumixxkusunokix]

all those lives......if only the pilot would have just refused to leave without the refueling slip. really sad.

[MinimeDrummerBoi]

@xterumixxkusunokix He made the first trip without the refueling slip. When he re-fueled it at his first destination, the gauge showed the wrong capacity, making the pilot think that he re-fueled enough when in fact it wasn't.

[vk45de]

@xterumixxkusunokix there are a lot of "if only"s in every accident.

[theWall0719]

*I meant dismissal, not dismal.

[geewizzzz]

Why have French pilots got subtitles when they speak English? I know they have an accent, but is it really impossible to understand them? In that case, why even bother trying to speak English?

And what about the Italian investigators? Are they easier to understand and don't need subtitles??

[Synergy9k]

@geewizzzz I never really understood that either. It's quite strange.

[ruckrulx]

fucking investigators....the guy in the simulator knew each and every thing while in the flight the pilots experienced real time problem...even if they had glided with optimal speed and for some reason not reached pallermo and crashed in land not even 1 person would have survived ..i think pilots did a wise job..hats of too them for this also

[theWall0719]

@ruckrulx: it is the job of the investigators to examine and report everything that went wrong in an air crash incident. It is done in order to prevent the same situation from happening again. Please realize that when lives are involved you cannot sacrifice truth or accuracy for courtesy and niceness.

While in my book the pilots are both heroes, the charge against the captain is completely justified as it is a non-optional standard procedure to have proof of refueling before take-off.

[htl2142]

i believed the pilot did what ever they can. i mean who could keep them selves cool in this kind of situation

[flightsimulatorA340]

@htl2142 ya



[flightsimulatorA340]

ya

[Envech]

@htl2142 Italian court sentenced the pilot, Chafik Garbi, to 10 years in jail for manslaughter.

[KingOfTheClutch]

@Envech Which is Bullshit........

[MrsNorris55]

@htl2142 I don't see why the pilot is facing charges. Considering he didn't know the true cause of the plane's problems, I find that more than a little unfair.

[GE0RGEBUSH]

@htl2142 you never should give up - flying to the coast would be a better decision

[cubes887]

This explains why commercial pilots are in the simulator every 6months for 4 hours straight, testing and experiencing emergency procedures of all shapes and sizes.

[1234cm1]

And also he might not have glided as far because he saw the boats and headed toward them

[Dauphin365]

As a commercial Pilot I cant understand why they never noticed that the fuel burn was incorrect during the first leg. We always check the fuel passing over checkpoints and if there are none then check it a minimum every 30 minutes. I am very surprised that this what not mentioned on this show. Ex if the fuel gages showed 4 times more then the actual then the fuel burn would show up as 4 times as little as would normally be expected. RIP

[MareTranquil]

@Dauphin365

You are assuming that the gauge always showed 4 times the real fuel quantity. should that be the case, you would be right.

However, that isnt the case. Its shown that when the real fuel quantity was around 600kg, the gauges showed 2700kg, and that they showed 1900kg when the plane was empty. That indicates that the gauges showed more ore less constantly 2000kg too much fuel, with not much usage difference that the pilots could notice.

[Sky14657]

@Dauphin365 nice that there are perfect pilots like you never making a mistake. The pilot clearly asked for the refueling paper that didn't exist, he got the answer that he will get it later. How do you check the fuel that doesn't exist but is shown by your gauge? Even if you check it every 5 minutes you won't discover the mistake.

[Dauphin365]

@Sky14657 Its the LAW to have that fuelslip and make sure the uplift match the gages, just for that reason. Im not perfect but I do follow the regulation and for a reason. Just made a comment about the fuelburn, there are however a lot of other questionable decisions made by the crew. Thats human nature. Me included btw. Fly safe.

[Sky14657]

@Dauphin365 i hope u never have a problem with the difference between laws and reality. they can't leave the plane just because they are told that the fuelslip will be sent. u know what would happen if they try? they will be fired because they delayed the flight "without a reason". that's human nature too.

[theWall0719]

@Sky14657: lives or a job. Take your pick. And between, if that occurred a wrongful dismal suit would have been completely plausible and most likely successful. That said, kudos to the pilots for their heroism in the air and sea. RIP to those who perished and condolences to those who lost loved ones.

[MrFSX26]

RIP real sad

[Bubsy99]

thx 4 upload

[rasharkein1]

RIP

[TinkerManRC]

Thanks for sharing

[s4yum1]

One missing paper that the captain neglected caused many people to die. Sad...

[sanfrancisco48]

OK, so now pilot errors combined with shoddy maintenance. Good grief.