Antigone by Sophocles (1984 TV) Juliet Stevenson (part 5/11)

[Notakolatronic]

iWishh They Had A Ghetto Version Insteadd Of This Smart English Lol

[Eremenatar]

Should i care what the chorus says?

[KrazeeAreli456]

@BryonAWitHonors

They are now. I just really don't like the old language they used. :b

[Abigael951]

when the chorus speak, i switch off

[26Brutus]

i like pie

[LowJackKoJack]

"sexsooality" XD

[KyleBuschKicksAzz]

this is where the difference between intelligent students, and not are made.. im watching this instead of reading the book, and i have an in depth college essay to write , which this has helped me understand very clearly. for example, i could answer KrazeeAreli's questions easily and get an A.. learn how to analyze

[smallville2490]

i like haemon's outfit.

[KrazeeAreli456]

I need help!!!

1.how does the conflict of moral or divine law versus the rule of law develops in the play???

2.how do Antigone and her values represent moral or divine law?

3.how does the king and his values line up with the rule of law?

4.Is the king a strong leader, a tyrant, or both? how does he abuse his powers?

You guys would be a great big help for answering these questions!!! :)

[lolprincess8792]

@KrazeeAreli456 think about when antigone had argued with creon about her following ancient morals rather than his law. it has alot of detail. i believe part 3 states this theory quite well

[BryonAWitHonors]

@KrazeeAreli456 im guessing you didn't read it or see it cause otherwise these questions are so easy.

[jezmuff]

This is fantastic, Creon is brilliant

[j30ma]

Luzac suuuuucks

[nfms12]

Creon is kinda dick.

[musicmakingal1]

watching this to study for my english exam i have tomorrow...much more fun than just reading the sparknotes to try to remember what we read in Antigone. this is a great film adaptation. juliet stevenson is absolutely beautiful as antigone

[watchmexplode33]

Haemon's outfit looks kinda badass. Anyone else agree?

[Rosealeee]

you get use to the buzzing. . .

[SexiKittie]

I WANT TO KILL CREON MYSELF! I WANNA STAB HIS FACE AND BASH HIS HEAD INTO HIS EYE SOCKETS!

[Elanel]

@SexiKittie So does he, at the end.

[jmichaelortiz]

can we get a cleaner copy?

[Shhhhhhhweta]

hey does anyone havea link to a scene with the nurse?

[enishi259]

There is no way in hell that any other human being can stand calmly and composed, after what Creon has said.

[smokeydirtcat13]

aren't antigone and haimon only suppost to be like 14? i hate when its not right

[xjackie93]

No. I think they're at least 18.

Then again, directors always have a different view on plays or want to display them differently.

[annikarelliott]

If Creon is so self obsessed with how he portrays himself then why won't he listen to the advice of his son who is trying to put his father in the best possible position in the public's eye.He doesnt understand that his son isn't being influenced by Antigone's sexuality but its his love for his dad

[Genjuruhi]

treats his son is hypocritical. He loves him, and he doesn't care about him. He treasures him, but he bosses him around. He well have his help, he will refuse everything he says.

No, he's hypocritical in general. At 7:35, he comments on the twisting ones rule for one's personal uses as wrong but... isn't he doing just that?

Poor child, he says to please as most children try to do when they love their parents.

( Considering later segments I must add... )

- Ebisucho

[Genjuruhi]

This man goes to extremities. This same man states he does what is right for the people, abuses it, then leaves to the point where he becomes selfish, lashing out whatever words he wishes to say to prove him right without proper reason. Ugh, discusting. ( Not proving anything, just commenting about it. )

As much as I'd like to say that the way Creon treats his son is wrong, back in history, parents would do that. They'd chose who'd you be with. Now, without that in mind, yes, the way he (c)

[bp8120367]

regardless of who they are, the law that he issued was violating the rights of the society for an individual. Also Creon states that he 'IS' the law. I think Cicero would disagree, because we get our reason from the Gods and the Gods created the rule of honoring the dead.

-Bryn

[bp8120367]

I found it sad how little respect Creon had for the love that his son shared with Antigone, however not at all surprised. Time and time again this play has shown male dominance and lack of respect for women. Could Aristotle have possibly influenced it at all? He thought that women were only 'half' a person. An unfinished man in a sense. When Creon is talking to Haemon he brings up the point of Individual vs Society. I think that although he is right in punishing someone for breaking the law,

[hlaw110360]

Haemon is a son with utmost respect for his father.He came to Kreon not to yell at his father for his acts but instead tells his father politely of his own feelings and decides to take himself out of the picture instead of having his father do something against his own will.Kreon explains that if he feels sympathy for the two sisters then hed be going against the law, but he himself made the decree that nobody could touch the younger brothers dead body!He should just cancel the law as creator.

[applejuice1000000]

This part also shows how male dominated society was at that time. In the very beginning of this clip I quote; "They are women! (to understand) their proper place in society, its nothing like the proper threat of death ... to make them face reality in the face!" Creon seems to look heavily down upon women, like they are some sort of lower class scum. Although harsh, this was reality at that period of time.

[applejuice1000000]

... effectively show the public the consequences of treason. In the latter half of this part, I find the actions of Haemon truly courageous, as to go against the will of your father, especially if your father is one with a high authority, is extremely terrifying. For Haemon to talk back to his father and point out his wrongs in front of the council is extremely daring. In this case, I believe it was the right thing to do to stand up for his beliefs.

[applejuice1000000]

(AJ) I believe it is despicable that Creon would not take responsibility for the deaths of Ismene and Antigone, pushing to blame towards "death". It is important for a ruler to have complete confidence in his actions and decisions, and with his/her great influence the ruler should also take full responsibility. If Creon truly believes that the execution of the two women would bring good to his state, then he should go all the way with his decision - possibly using a public stoning to ...

[Vtsan430]

very bold people both in actions and words. (vivienne)

[Vtsan430]

Chorus :"Another generation sheds its blood.. .the young root prepared for the same bloody axe, the characteristics of Oedipus, arrogance, brings its bleak harvest in." I think its interesting how both Antigone and Oedipus's fates were so tragic, both were guilty of crimes against the state. The chorus reminds us that they also share the characteristic of arrogance, a common theme played throughout Greek tragedies, and both of their arrogant attitudes made them

[rayleerusso]

I understand that Creon wants to stand by the rule of the state but, is it necesary to kill your own niece? There are other ways to get your kingdom to follow the law then threatening them with death. Also, i agree with the person below me, Creon is not really letting Haemon talk at all. Creon is bascially yelling what he thinks is right and leaving no room to discuss. I don't think their relationship is very solid.

[adioboyy69]

Creon doesnt really talk to his son, its more like he was talking at him. I agreed with some of the things he said, like if he cant uphold the law in this instance, why would anyone believe that he could uphold it in a different situation. He still hasnt made many good impressions though, is law is unjust and kind of ridiculous, and when barking at his son, it just makes him look like a right... mean person. It seems to me that his has no regard for his son and would clearly let him suffer.

[thefeliciat619]

He responds by simply saying, "I will not part them- death will." From this quote, it is evident that he thinks that his actions are just and that all he is doing is right for the entire socity. Creon doesn't think twice about his decision. He just goes on with it as though every rule that comes out of his mouth is worth following.

[thefeliciat619]

Creon is a cruel man. He thinks that the love between his son and Antigone isn't important enough. He simply says that there are "other fields to plow", meaning that there are other women in the world tha this son could marry. Obviously, this shows that the love between Antigone and his son, Haemon means nothing to him and he doesn't see how important it is. Also, two of his senators try to convince him as well. They ask him if he really is going to "tear the woman from his own son's arms".

[kunals100]

I think it is interesting how Haemon has tried to appeal to his father's more rational side, by toadying up to him before saying what he actually means. It suggests that Creon often makes impulsive decisions due to his lack of emotional restraint. He also seems to be feared by his senators, for when he and his son are arguing, the senators never seem to say anything conclusive about which side they think is right. They simply say, both sides have valid points, and have strong arguments.

[Tara546]

...of the only religions that included female gods. In Greek mythology, goddesses are seen as being as powerful as the male gods, and in some cases, the goddesses were the gods of things that were seen as more masculine than feminine, e.g. Athena, the Goddess of war.

[Tara546]

...it still must be followed because he is king and his word is law. He actually seems to be admitting that his law may be unjust, and yet he is still standing behind it because he believes that one who controls his family with power can do the same with his state.

Another quote: "If we must be deposed, let it be by a man's hand... not by a conspiracy of women." As Bowie said, women in Greek society weren't seen as equals, which I find interesting considering that the Greeks' religion was one...

[Tara546]

"Unquestioning obedience to whomsoever the state appoints to be its ruler IS the law, as far as I'm concerned... and this applies to small things as well as great ones, just or unjust, right or wrong, for who is to choose these things but the king?"

This was one of the statements that jumped out at me. At first I thought that Creon really believed that the law he was upholding was morally right, but in that statement he says "just or unjust, right or wrong", suggesting it may be unjust, but...

[bowiiex3]

in this section, creon's comments show how badly women are disrespected, and how they are seen within the society. it is unfortunate how women can not be treated equally in a society, especially when their society believes that some immortals are female (goddesses). i feel very fortunate for being able to live in a society in which women are treated more/less equally to men, but i believe that all women deserve this, and it should not be a privilege.

[holyoak83]

it seems like creon has to be the law and have eeveryone know that he is the government and only he has the authority to change things that happen there, but yet hes not willing to take the responsiblity for his actions like when he says that he is not killing antigone, but death is. This seems odd because it is his fault is she lives or dies.

[jacxphi]

Yet now he has indulged himself in the power of being a King and therefore become more arrogant and full of himself.

[jacxphi]

It seems to me that Creon is now beginning to regard the "state" as himself as when he was having that loud argument with Haemon he kept mentioning how important and influential a leader is to a state. I disagree- this is how democratic states gradually lead to communist states where the government gets to make all the choices and gets all the money. There is a transitional change in Creons behavioras when we first see him in Oedipus he seems like a very structured and sensible and contained man

[jacxphi]

I agree with mallory and the others that Haemon was extremely courageous to speak up against his father like that. In the past, the relationship between parents and children was a lot more hostile than now, with children obeying whatever their parents told them. For Haemon to disobey his father by saying those things for Antigone and for the sake of justice really showed how fair/just and in love he was with Antigone. (jaclyn)

[mgm1994]

(mallory)

[mgm1994]

When Creon said "its time they understood they are women, and they need to learn their proper place in society", I thought it was extremely sexist. He is implying that since Antigone is a woman she doesn't deserve to be treated fairly or with respect. This statement also provides insight into ancient Greek society. It was clearly a male-dominated society that wasnt equal in its treatment of the women.

[mgm1994]

I agree with John, about admiring Haemons courage. It was very noble of him to have stood up to his fathe the king, for the sake of the woman he loved, even when she was obviously guilty. It showed a lot about his character, that he was a brave, loyal and selfless person, because by disagreeing with his father he was risking his future place in the city state.

[adnannece]

I think Creon was being too stubborn and arrogant when Haemon was talking about the opinions of others. Creon was thinking highly of himself, and asking why he should listen to the opinions and thoughts of other people. This shows how much the power of being a king has influenced him.

AnneL

[AnnieeTing]

Creon had been a very hard-hearted and law oriented man since he became King. Yet when his son arrives, and he says the words "undying love" it really shows a soft side of him. Especially when Haemon says that he is never to see him again, you can clearly see Creon's agonized face. But now that you see, in the end, he still doesn't give up his power even when his son had begged him to, it clearly shows how far Creon had gone under the influence of power.

[MartinMI6]

height" are struck down.

When Haemon warns Kreon of the public opinion concerning Antigone's judgment Kreon becomes furious, and it is as though he has been blinded by the power he now wields. He is now acting like an absolute totalitarian, and I think it forebodes his demise. The Greeks prized their democracy, and Kreon not listening to the people is definitely undemocratic. Even Octavian needed the people's support to become emperor of Rome!

[MartinMI6]

The chorus alludes to the fate concept of Greek culture again, saying that Oedipus' children were doomed and cursed to suffer like he did. Suffering sort of "runs in the family". Oedipus' fate was to suffer after he realised his prophecy came true, and it is sort of passed on to his children, since they were born out of that prophecy. The chorus also talks about how men aren't supposed to rise up to be equals to the gods at 2:56. Zeus is the highest power, and those who rise above the "permitted

[kjopowicz]

But should children suffer the same fate just because of their parents?

[MartinMI6]

Well, the Greeks certainly seem to think so. Maybe the children don't have to suffer the same fate as their parents, but Antigone and her siblings were born out of Oedipus' prophecy. They were born out of incest, and that was certainly frowned upon by the Greeks, and indeed many societies. So because of Oedipus' actions, he destined his children to suffer badly too.

[denisehbh]

"Get rid of her, my boy. This girl's an enemy, no good to you or your best interest." What is Creon trying to accomplish by saying this? Is he trying to convince Haemon that Antigone was never any good for him, so that Haemon will not despise him after Antigone is murdered?

"If I were to spare her life, I too would betray the state, this law, and everything I stand for." i LOVE this quote!! I have said this many times but Creon is truly showing that he is (somewhat of?) a good ruler.

[kjopowicz]

He does seem to be showing a concern for others.

[xjohn2006]

I feel a deep sense of repsect for Haeman and his willingness to fight for what he believes is just and right. His willingness to fight for the one he loves, by going to his father's courts and trying to sway his father's, the king of thebes, decision on antigone's punishment.

But at the same time, i cannot help but having some respect for Creon himself. I do not like his ways and judgments, but i do like how even when his own son is trying to persuade him to change his mind, he holds fast.

[Christine752]

...like to deny it. Also, Haemon is able to defy his father and get away with it, thanks again to his great eloquence. I feel bad for him; but it makes me wonder if Antigone feels the same way about him that he does about her. If she's so determined to die, than she must not love him that much- either that or she's just being very selfish.

[kjopowicz]

Ahhhh! Perhaps she is so driven that she realizes too late what she is to lose, "No wedding night, no children. No children to love me!"'

[JamesHar7]

Yeah Mr. J, in accepting death as a result of her actions and being denied the pleasures of marriage and children is she accepting a "Cynic life"?

[kjopowicz]

She briefly seems to cling to the earthly things of life. Maybe a Cynic later. Definitely not an Epicurean or a Stoic.

[Christine752]

Haemon's performance is masterful. He is obviously deeply in love with Antigone, but instead of appealing to his father with emotions, which he knows will be seen as a weakness to a man like Creon, he instead tries to change his mind through strategy. His quick thinking enables him to put together a well-spoken argument of why his father should let Antigone live. He also makes some good points- in the end, the public opinion will be more important than Creon himself, no matter how much he would

[pikaace]

@Christine752 well said

[karolynink]

I've seen women take control and charge of men but I guess they thought it was wrong for women too. Also, if women did take control of men, in this case Antigone is trying to do what is right to her and trying to take control, Creon doesn't want her to because then he might think she can control him. Men always want to be on top. I believe the son has every right to get upset at his father. He's a different person than his father. He actually has feelings and know what it means to be a king.

[karolynink]

Why should gender be a problem? Creon says, "They're woman! There proper place in this society." Here does he mean a place in society where they think women are below men?

Women can do as many things as men can do. Out of no where, men thought they were stronger than women.

carolyn

[JodieWYC]

I feel Haemon is extremely well spoken. He is careful in his choice of words towards his father, reminding me of how even in the modern day world, politics, words, and sadly even news are twisted to "sound" the best. I believe Kreon was being rather stubborn in not listening to his son who tells him of the people's opinions. There is only 1 Kreon and the population outweighs him...if he was strategizing well,he should be try getting as many people as he can on his side to prevent a revolution.

[TheDonLau]

Creon is being strong, he isn't cracking under the pressure. It is the perfect example to set for the people. The best way to set an example is to show how serious you are about it. Haemon is being a immature baby, he is trying to undermine his father's authority. The worst thing to do is to disobey a law and try to justify it with your perception of "justice". Antigone is being rebellious and self-righteous, she deserves it. Haemon is under the spell of Antigone, and it is doing no good.

[calebiscool1]

I still agree that it is right that Creon is upholding the law because he has to set a fair example to society saying if you break the law, you must pay the punishment. I also think how it was good how strongly he acted in front of his men to show how strong he is. He also didn't break under the pressure from his son which shows he has a strong will to do what he thinks is right. Althought the punishment may seem harsh, antigone still commited the crime despite knowing the punishment

[JamesHar7]

I am in agreement with Caleb's position but wonder whether Creon's initial law was just. Did the law he ruled conflict with the devine law of the Gods'?

[120415]

change his law before antigone could have broken it, and suffered the death penalty.

Euvin K

[120415]

I think although what Creon is doing is harsh and seemingly unjust, he is doing the right thing, as no one should be above the law, even his son's fiance. Creon, in this sense, was ahead of his time, as people today still considers that nobody is above the law. However, I thought that the law itself was not a very good law, as the punishment prescribed for such law is much more harsher than it should be. Hence, I would say that it would have been better for Creon if he decided to...(cont)

[MMA31]

I believe Creon is being very hard on his son, telling him that he will still kill Antigone although she was Haemon's former finance. I don't like how Creon treats women with no respect and value. For example in the last part, when Creon said, "and if we must be depose, let be in man's hands, not by a conspiracy of women." On the other hand, I also agree that society does need a authority to rule but not a dictator type government like Creon.

Jason C.

[bradfordlex]

At first you were convinced that Haemon was only in this due to bethrothment, but then you realize that he actually loves Antigone and cares for her. (how, i have no idea, she seems so bipolar) The way he defies his father's authority, it seems like he's on the brink of getting himself a death sentence. That slap was also one of the funniest things ive ever seen. I know its important for Creon to stabilize the kingdom, but man, woah there!

[beltingtokra]

aha creon is such a dictator XD

[SunriseGloryx]

Yay at least they say Haemon right