@rx713bbp Peace be with you. I look forward to the day when most of mankind will reconnect with their Creator given intelligence and try to make the world a better place rather than hating because they cannot handle life. I wish the best for you.
@Danny197437 Danny, it was a joke. Admittedly not a good one but what is there left to say about the deluded religious? It's not like any of them are making a serious point. They are well able to scrutinise each other's holy book but don't seemed to be able to go that last step and do it to their own.
@MegaPaddy86 I'm glad you were not not being serious, since people have been "arguing over books" for centuries and do to this day. On what grounds do you call the religious deluded? On what grounds do you determine whether or not they are making a serious point? What makes you the 'judge' with regards to whether or not the religious scrutinise their own books? There seems to be an 'absolute standard' inherent in your words, so how do you arrive at this absolute standard?
@Danny197437 By having never heard a convincing argument for any religion and believe me, I've had a good look around. I think that answers all of your questions. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
@MegaPaddy86 How on earth has that answered ANY of my questions? Am I seriously to take it that because YOU are not convinced then that settles it? I suggest you go back to my questions and take them one by one. "Extraordinary claims"? Like life coming from non-life? Like abiogenesis? There is evidence for NEITHER. But let's rewind somewhat. You talk of evidence. Evidence presupposes truth; now, can you explain for me what truth is? Your next effort had better be worth it!
@Danny197437 Oh please, what bit of vital information did I miss that proves religion to be true? It has been shown that nothingness will create matter, you should watch 'something from nothing' videos on youtube for a beginners guide. I'm not taking your questions one by one as they all have the same principle answer. As for life coming from non-life, RNA will form spontaneously and it only had to happen once in 4.5 billion years. Truth is usually just a measure of probability. That is all.
@ali9996052 Im GAY! I cant be a Muslim, even if I wanted to. Now dont tell me the Koran is the cure because people are born the way they are, and GOD LOVES THEM EQUALLY.
Islam must be banned from western countries as it is the black plague of our time and muslims by breeding like rats are trying to spread their filth all around the world in a global jihad to impose sharia law on real people. When I say real people I mean people that are not insane or retarded.
@justanoldman1 Hi, after you come out of your 'drunken stupor' (with the greatest of respect) and you are able to string together a sensible sentence, provide us with evidence of your contentions. I look forward to a reasoned response (if you are capable of doing so, respectfully I state.
@justanoldman1 Hi here we go again statements only but no evidence of your contentions about ISLAM because that is what you stated to which I responded. Your posts are clearly an indication that you 'hate' not knowing why, just like the alleged rioters in Afghanistan who are rioting not knowing all the facts (that is no excuse to riot) you however in the western world have no excuse because information is readily available. TRY responding evidentially. Thanks
@justanoldman1 Hi peace be with you. Your response is a sad reflection of the low standards that human beings have fallen to in these 'enlightened times'. The fact that you want to convince yourself of things that are not patently and evidentially true and insist on that path is really sad. I wish the best for you.
Sin, wrath & repentance are apart of the Biblical message but so is grace & mercy. Christ's birth, life, death, resurrection & purpose are always missing from most open air preachers. They weigh heavy on sin, hell & our obedience. And, "Jesus' blood saves!" is about all you'll hear before they jump right back to "REPENT!" Lets not forget what motivates repentance... CHRIST.
@Danny197437 Well its pleasant to hear that we are both ready to disregard our differences in order to refute these ignorant atheistic claims. I wouldnt bother wasting my time with this next guy, i honestly cannot find a stable backbone from which his argument is being constructed. Im off until something interesting happens or Audio decides to reply... Im just happy youre not as ignorant as these people.
Last time I looked, Audio had closed his account; the atheist has no rational foundations to even be here making an 'argument'. Witness the incoherent drivel coming out of the mouths of Spirifiume and BOOOZB.
It really is amazing that there exists adults that can look at the universe, see that it is complex, and then proceed to invent an infinitely more complex cause and think they have somehow "explained" the universe
@Spirifiume The substance of what? You are making absolute truth claims about the nature of reality, but if your view of the nature of reality is the "truth" , then nothing at all matters anyway. If your assertions were true, then your ‘arguments’ are self-defeating!
Your view dictates that nothing at all matters, yet you tell believers they are “wrong”. You talk about your brain - why is your electrochemical brain state 'right 'and mine 'wrong'? What knowledge do you have that I don't?
@Spirifiume Nice way to avoid the fundamental questions which destroy your position.
What kind of substance is this BS? How did the electrochemical processes in your brain come to determine this?
There is plenty of scientific evidence, you just don't like the evidence because of your prescommitment to atheism.. Do you even understand the concept of evidence? Evidence presupposes truth, but what is truth?
How did reason arise naturally? How did inanimate matter become self-aware? Hm?
@Spirifiume "Proof" presupposes truth. What is truth? You're a philosophical coward who can't even face up to the tough questions. Do you understand the very basics of evidence and proof? You're a Dawkins groupie, stuck in a timewarp. Every time you make an argument you defeat your own position. What is truth, coward? Can you talk me through the process of how reason arose naturally? Why is your electrochemical and indifferent brain state right? What absolute standard are you appealing to?
@Spirifiume Hey Coward, why do you keep ignoring the fundamental questions? Proof presupposes truth; what IS truth? Do you understand the concept of evidence? Do you understand the concept of proof?
@Spirifiume Hey Coward, do you understand the concepts of evidence and proof? You see the fine tuning of the universe? That's evidence of a creator? You see the incredible design the universe displays? That's evidence of a designer. Now, philosophical Coward, for the umpteenth time do you understand even the basics of 'evidence' and 'proof'? And again: What is truth? Are there absolute truths? Why are you so afraid to answer my questions?
@Spirifiume Hey Coward, you call me a liar? On what basis? Obviously you are so utterly inept that you *still* do not understand the concept of evidence! You need an immediate crash course in philosophy and logic, Coward. Yes I gave you evidence. Also, that we can do science at all presupposes God. But I tell you what, how about you give me an account for the uniformity of nature...? Can you justify induction without induction? Stop the outdated and childish Dawkinsian 'insults' and man up, boy!
@Danny197437 Scientific " evidences" of a mythic belief is the oldest humor topic . Molière in " Les femmes savantes "plays nicely with this stupid side of mankind. Closer from us,today's most stupid among the Jews try accrediting that "they are more inteligent because Einstein",and they are stacking piles of guys names providing evidences...that a race link makes it .But when nazis use the same trick, it's an awfull lie..
Reason & basic intelligence lack the same way to both.
@Danny197437 A God evidence should be as the evidence of the sun rising .Anyone , whatever the language or culture , should be convinced by this sensual evidence; A god who needs writings & books in coded vernaculars can only be a perverted human. Which we are never short of ,sorry : SPIRIFUME = are You a Jack Vance reader ? If so , I do like his concept of déiities , with his god named "Spirifume" ( Suldrun's Garden, The green pearl )
@BOOOZB You've already conceded truth is arbitrary, and you have been dismissed as an incoherent fool. Why should I accept anything you say? In any case your latest post is rhetorical only, and entirely messed up: "A god who needs writings & books in coded vernaculars can only be a perverted human. Which we are never short of ,sorry". Prove the claim! I dare you now to prove this empty claim. "Perverted" implies there is a standard to which "god" is 'failing'... What standard? Yours? So what?
@Danny197437 I can't do more forYou.I only tried to help But .. The only formal truth is a grammar trick called logic.Usual truth can be only negative = You can't find what U look for in books nor Web.You have to accept to p(l)ay the game:dive from yr confort cliff down to "why Uwant live",then U'll be living and it's the greatest fate for human! So many being man shapd vegetables !.It may cost life (physical), but price is cheap anyway.God coms next & is for living earthlings only.
@BOOOZB Can you expalin for me how abstract, invariable and universal laws of logic can exist in a materialistic world? Can you account for logical absolutes?
Why does one chemical state of the physical brain that leads to another chemical state of the physical brain produce logical absolutes which are not dependent on the physical brain for their validity? Will one of you incoherent atheists at least attempt to answer this question?
The rest of your post is yet more incoherent drivel.
@BOOOZB Congrats, you're the first who knows Spirifiume.
Jack Vance is a very beloved and honoured writer in my country.
And, indeed, I learned a lot from his deities and found Spirifiume the one and only God I can appreciate. Wish gods like christ and allah were like Spirifiume.
@Spirifiume Hello !very dear Spirifume !How happy surprise to find a beliver of such a smart and sympathetic god from last of the Ranges of Cam,right over the " the Antlers of kernuun"Inn,where Dildahl the wellknown Innkeeper knows the best recipes of Quivern lake fish.I red it in French,but it's been my bible for years.When this world freezes my love for life,I fly dream airline to Sth Ulfland.Beer is cheap & belivers less fanaticized than in éra of jewish hatred on the Gaea planet!
@Spirifiume Hi I assume that you are one of those rare individuals who can intelligently and reasonably substantiate your allegations concerning Islam. If so please provide us with the evidence to substantiate your claim.
Just look how they all believe in bucaillism (1976, bucaille: miracles in quran) and how they think that the customs of Muhammad are a divine law and do not read the Quran in historical context. They repeat the old primum movens arguments, that were already refuted by the Greeks and then of course it is their imperialist whishes ("islam will rule the world"), that are very disturbing. And they have never studied the crimes in their own history and celebrate their wars, if they won
@AustrianAtheist Hi you have made quite a few allegations and accusations concerning Islam. I would be interested in the evidence to substantiate your allegations and accusations. I am certain that you possess the evidence otherwise you lwould not hold the position that you are currently holding. I look forward to the evidence.
Evidence on what? On the cooperation between Saudi instutions and Maurice Bucaille for promoting the miracle crap in the 70s? (which is of course rejected by educated muslims)
It is just my personal experience, that many muslims do not understand the whole debate on things like the primum movens issue (I know that the old arabs have studied Aristotle, but today they are totally ignorant on philosophy, while Christian theology mostly understand how absurd the "God of gap" argument [gap->God]is)
@AustrianAtheist "God of the gaps"? The Christian God is the God of everything, not just any "gaps". You talk about your personal experience, so how do you account for objective truth? Are you making absolute truth claims here, or should we just dismiss your ramblings as yet another incoherent atheist spewing out his personal distaste and incredulity? Can you account for universal, abstract and unchanging laws of logic in your fantastical world? Can you explain how reason arose naturally?
"Gott der Lücken" (translation: God of the gaps) is a concept in Christian theology, which opposes arguments like "Who created the big bang?" because it is not evidence for the existence of God, if scientists do not understand something. However, some evangelical movements and most islamic groups still use the argument, which was already refuted 300 years ago, which proves my point, they have not studied logic/philosophy. Even if I could not explain reason (I can) this would not prove anything
@AustrianAtheist The “god of the gaps” argument is a fringe argument and was refuted long ago - by Christians. You admit attacking something refuted “300 years ago“. You’re attacking an Aunt Sally, a non-existent argument to any serious apologist. What else have you got? How about bringing something original?
Is it really so hard to understand? I do point out the fact, that those people still use such primitive arguments. There are so many muslims on youtube, who repeat the watchmaker-claim - totally ignoring the historical debate on it. You are also totally ignorant on simple terminology and mixing up "logic", "reason", "truth" like a madman.
@AustrianAtheist No, I understand perfectly, and you are attacking the irrelevant and fringe “god of the gaps” argument. But I tell you what, I’ll play along and ask you to give me a very brief rundown on the “blind watchmaker” debate, since you mention this specifically. Can you explain the “historical debate” in a nutshell?
The watchmaker simply denies the power of evolution by natural selection. With the first self-replicating molecules evolution kicks in. It is obvious that living things are the result of evolutionary processes while a clock is not. Logic is simply the study of correct reasoning, has nothing to do with God. The evolution of the human brain indeed is a beautiful thing leading to human self-awarness and the human idea of reason. A mere belief without proper evidence has nothing to do with a truth.
@AustrianAtheist Hi there, this post is from ALLTRUTHREVEALED, I am surprised that you have decided not to respond to our posts yet you are responding to other posts. Please clarify whether you want to continue the discussion. Thanks.
@AustrianAtheist No, that is not what the “blind watchmaker” says. Try again. And again, can you explain the “historical debate”? Please provide evidence for these “first self-replicating molecules”. You are extrapolating from a presupposed position to an unknown situation. Stop repeating the Darwinian metaphor and think for yourself!
"The blind watchmaker" is a book by Dawkins, that I can recommend. You are talking about the silly 1802 Paley "watchmaker analogy". Use the correct terms, google it and learn, why it is childish. RNA is such a self-replicating molecule. We still do not know some details, but Abiogenesis is not a big mystery anymore. (I think it were different molecules replicating each other). Dolphins and chimps are also self-aware -> result of a huge, developped brain. nope, a truth needs evidence.
@AustrianAtheist Very kind of you to recommend it. I’ve read it - have you? I am using the correct terms, and have asked you to show me where the book ’refutes’ anything. Remember, I’m playing along with your “evidence” claim. Dawkins went in way over his head with his “blind watchmaker”, so it would be interesting to see you defend that flop.
Unanswered questions:
So when did evolution produce self-awareness?
Are you saying reason and logic are conventions among men?
it is hard to explain many different things. Let me begin with self.awarness. Many apes including human beings recognize themselves in mirrors, so do Dolphins and some other whales. Reason and logical thinking can even be found in crows. The mind is nothing supernatural, but simple brain activity. Take a drug. it changes your consciousness, your feelings, opinions. Is it really that hard to understand?
1. You're telling me nothing! How do things become their opposites? We know that self-awareness is true; I’m asking how inanimate matter *became* self-aware! Try reading what I am saying.
2. So crows have access to laws of logic? Would you care to expand?
3. You are talking about *changes* in consciousness; you are not *accounting* for consciousness! Is it really that hard to understand?
Crows are able to build tools, do communicate, have an impressive problem-solving ability. Many very different species from crows to dolphins show impressive intelligence/self awareness. It is pretty obvious that intelligent animals often had a higher survival and reproduction rate, which led to crows/human beings/bottleneck dolphins/chimps. What you call consciousness is just the brain working. if you smash the brain, it is over. No need for God to explain it. Give me evidence for your Gods!
@AustrianAtheist What are you bleating on about? I asked you if crows have access to laws of logic. Do they?
"It is pretty obvious that intelligent animals often had a higher survival and reproduction rate, which led to crows/human beings/bottleneck dolphins/chimps."
This is a tautology. Why is it “pretty obvious”?
"No need for God to explain it. Give me evidence for your Gods!"
Sure, when you begin to address some questions. Evidence presupposes truth; again, what is truth?
@AustrianAtheist "What you call consciousness is just the brain working. if you smash the brain, it is over."
What an utterly feeble argument! If the brain is a platform for the mind, then removing or damaging the platform changes the performance levels of the mind. If there is damage to a computer’s hardware, many of the expectations of the software will not function correctly. The concept of duality is not damaged when one part or the other malfunctions.
@AustrianAtheist Functional RNA catalysts arise once RNA bases are arranged into information-rich sequences. If RNA was a precursor to life, it would need to acquire genetic information. The theory provides no explanation for the origin of the genetic information contained in the RNA. Abiogenesis is your religion.
“We still do not know some details”
Is this a science-of-the-gaps argument you are giving me here? One has to marvel at the utter hypocrisy coming from the incoherent atheist!
You are mixing up DNA and RNA. RNA is capable of storing genetic information, like DNA, and to catalyze chemical reactions, like an enzyme protein. You are indeed using the retarded 17th century "gap" argument. Even, if we did not know anything about abiogenesis, this would not be an argument for the existing of some mythological figures. With every new experiment, the role of your childish "Gap-god" shrinks. Soon it will only have created the big bang, lol
@AustrianAtheist I’m mixing up nothing; if you do not understand the issues you should not be here! For your ‘theory’ to be true, RNA molecules capable of fully replicating themselves must exist. RNA catalysts, including those with partial self-copying ability, show the function of these molecules depends on the precise arrangement of their information-carrying constituents (their nucleotide bases). Function arises not before but *after* the information problem has been solved.
@AustrianAtheist So you do not solve the problem, you presupposes a solution in the form of an information-rich RNA molecule capable of copying itself. That's anti-scienceNo gap arguments here; I’m asking you to substantiate your claims. There's no evidence that abiogenesis ever took place, but what we see from the incoherent atheist is a science-of-the-gaps argument, even when he admits he knows nothing about abiogenesis; which is hardly surprising, since you cannot justify abiogenesis!
@AustrianAtheist Laws of logic define the basic and unbreakable parameters of human thinking. They are immaterial, unchanging and universal. They have *nothing* to do with materialism.
So when did evolution produce self-awareness?
Are you saying reason and logic are conventions among men?
“Evidence” presupposes truth; what is truth?
You haven’t addressed anything, you’ve merely repeated the defunct Darwinian party line. Your fool’s philosophy is blinding you.
@AustrianAtheist And I’ll give you another chance, zombie: Why are you here making truth claims? What *is* truth? What are the laws of logic? How do you explain immaterial, universal, unchanging laws of logic? I’m not mixing anything up; and finally I’ll ask again, how did reason arise through the genetic code? Can you explain laws of thought. Can you give me even a slight explanation of how inanimate matter became self-aware? Surely you must be able to give me something?
@AustrianAtheist Why are you here making claims to truth? What is truth? You talk about logic and philosophy. If reason is the product of evolutionary processes, how do you explain immaterial, abstract, universal and invariable laws of logic? If your view of the nature of reality is the "truth", then nothing matters anyway. If your assertions were true, then your ‘arguments’ are self-defeating! You have a fool’s philosophy, and just being here refutes your world-view. You’re the walking dead.
@AustrianAtheist Hi I would rather you tried to address the question posed evidentially. Instead you decide to tell me that it is your PERSONAL experience (subjective) and even worse you proceed on that basis to state yet more subjective notions (completely devoid of objective evidence). Please try again AND ADDRESS THE QUESTION EVIDENTIALLY.
All religious people should study confirmation bias and auto-indoctrination.
Your nickname mentions truth, but a truth ex definicione assumes inter-subjective provability. If people mix up a belief and a truth, then all logic is gone. The false terminology indicates the anti-logic.
And yes, no offense but all those silly people, who only want to hear what their preachers tell them, will never understand, what truth is. It is confirmation bias
@AustrianAtheist YET MORE VERBOSITY! I venture to suggest that you cannot address issues evidentially. The fact that you are only reliant on your subjective notions is a clear indication that you may not possess the necessary evidence to substantiate your position. If you do possess the evidence (OBJECTIVE) please provide it as that is what I have sought from you.
@money4idiotz Hi your comment is unusual. Although none of us, meaning human beings can ever be as good as Christ was, we can how ever aspire to be good and righteous.As for most Muslims being not as bad as Muhammed s.a.w. is absolutely incorrect.What i mean by that is Muhammed s.a.w. was the best of creation in his conduct, and behavior.
@AllTruth Only this : how could you trust a jew's tale of today whre profit is at stake ? ( according to news: & israel crimes & lies).So how rely to tales told to be from 2 th years ? They invented lies from long ago.If any christ ever existed, I need other evidences than the words of the most renown people of liars & thieves.God can only be evidenced inside the matter of by observation the deep universe or..anything that is an evidence for anyone with eyes .
@BOOOZB I will try again, I requested evidence from you to substantiate your allegations concerning Islam. You instead make yet more statements devoid of the evidential requirement. If you can substantiate your allegations evidentially, we can proceed to address the issue of the Creator and observation.
@BOOOZB If Christ ever existed? The earliest manuscript evidence we have for Jesus' existence dates to within 10s of years of His death. Do you dispute the existence of Caesar? Or Plato? Or perhaps Homer? Evidence for Caesar dates back to 1000 years after his death. For Plato the evidence dates to as ’early’ as 1300 years after his death. For Homer's Iliad it dates back to 500 years after his death. Do you question their existence? Do you have the first clue as to what you are talking about?
@Danny197437 I can't deny or asserts anything from those times.I just know the stories which came to us from these old times.What I CAN deny is the asserts of surnatural facts at those supposed times or any others.But I wont debate this here.I respect your belief,cause it helps you live easyer.Only for that positive results, I wouldn't brake anything of what means a personnal equilibrium for lots of poor peoples. By this help to human suffering,religion justifys itself. .
@BOOOZB Of course you have no answers. How do you know why I believe? Can you demonstrate how helping people live "easyer" (sic) necessarily makes a belief untrue? How do you know believers are "poor peoples" (sic)? How can you deny the supernatural? Do you know what a supernatural event entails? For once will you attempt to answer the questions? You've avoided everything put your way thus far.
@Danny197437 Unfortunately the atheist isnt returning my argument. And i wasnt being arrogant to you, i just didnt want to continue that argument as it was in essence useless to my main argumentive goal with Audio. And one more thing, is 1974 your birth date? And were you 37 when you created your account...
@KorruptedReaper I understand and agree, and alas Audio has bitten the dust; it won't be long before this latest incoherent atheist goes the same way. And, strange as it sounds, I'm happy to team up with the Muslims on here to expose the utter vacuousness of the atheist position. So I'm not necessarily arguing with you for the sake of it, Korrupted. As for my account name, you are entirely correct.
@Danny197437 Im not generalising. I stated a fact with an evidential background: that ive learnt reason does not work, and ive learnt this through Muslim persecution in my area. My basis of argument isnt in who persecutes who, its in the fact that people like him, of any religion, EVEN Islam, dont understand reason. I dont know what youre on about. Also, i as a human being have terrible memory, so sorry, i cant supply my source of information. Please dont continue this.
I wonder how Asian people ( VietNam,Koréa,China,Cambodia, Siam.) who are the wisest people on Earth judge us and our madness with our exclusive single god ? Thou shan't 'have no other god before Me "The worst & crazyest sentence ever ! When these human from far east watch catholic vicars and protestant pastors fighting like cats & dogs,Jews spreading hatred against Islam, and all of them burning each other as heretics,antisemitics déviationnist ,négationnists or "infidèles :they may laugh at us
@BOOOZB What on earth are you going on about? Prove the "wisest people on earth" claim. Are you seriously implying multiple gods is more rational than a single creator God? Your post is just one long incoherent rant, full of baseless assertions.
@Danny1 ARE U SERIOUS ?! Anyone can judge! How many WW from Asia ? How many nuke extermination from Asia ? How many Asian killed and havoc western countries ? China invented gun powder + 3000 Yago,they never made dastard guns out of their knowledge,do U think it's because they couldn't ?or by wisdom.They made very good rockets and cannons FOR FUN (fireworks) 3000Y befor JC (J.Caesar).When powder arrived at western whit christians:it needd 300 Y to make army's guns,& not by wisdom !
@BOOOZB In a world of moral relativism there *is no* good or evil, Boo. You are stealing from the theistic world-view an absoloute moral standard which you could not justify given atheism. What is right and wrong? What is truth? You are utterly inconsistent with your world-view. A "morally outraged" atheist is an inconsistent and incoherent fool. You obviously need to abandon your atheism or else abandon your empty "outrage".
@Danny197437 I agree with you,though I didn't steal anything.Natur truth is available to anyone who studys it .No copyright is possible on cosmos physical or logical truth, I 'm sorry for that.Human survival law is: does it work or not.Religion just can't supply any help to human fate, so - needing energy - it is a noxious practice.The cosmos has been made to be understood,not to be believed.If billions of praying had produced only a force of a femto-Newton,it would be all different
@BOOOZB So truth is whatever anyone who "studies it" decides? This is just flat-out gobbledegook; it's a tautology, Boo!! You're all over the place, fella. You're assuming an undefined "truth". Now again: what is truth?
@Danny197437 NO !The truth is not what WE "decide" but that the study allows us to see.The discovery job,necessary to print cosmos rules allows you to open a small window on the amazing fantastic,and endlessly marvelous cosmos. It's more crazy and awesome than what any spring god inventor could fancy with acid pills or by the Flanders self convicing wild flight.God,if U like this human image,didn't want us to know him directly! Mankind has been given the means to climb towards,
@BOOOZB (...) towards his direction.But if U like:at the state we are (primate), god is only a "direction"towards which we have to climb by acquyring knoledge. Religious men just cheat,caus too narrow.it's a very long climb,but the main is not arrival, but progressin in the right directn.It's very simple : we are fitted with th necessary tools.In respect of god we must only use them as common sens shows us.No book ! no cheat all is written in clear in Natur= cosmos! Maths = prayin to now
@BOOOZB If we are nothing more than blind chemical processes, how do you account for meraningful knowledge? How would you explain our ability to reason and obtain knowledge?
No brain state can be ‘true’ or ‘false’ since our brain states are not *about* anything.
Why does one chemical state of the physical brain that leads to another chemical state of the physical brain produce abstract, invariable, universal logical absolutes which are not dependent on the physical brain for their validity?
@Danny197 You want answers !! Univers is no sex shop! !Neither I nor anyone can give U answers !.Thos who do are most dangerous guys.I only can help:how to find Ur first question.I hope U'r young enough to start Urquest!.1st:stop fearing life.Go fighting with yr fear=only way to learn who U are.(forinst,go ALONE climb a fearsom mountain where no one can help if U fail=Back from it alive U'll own yourself.Then U can go outside meet peoples.Our first truth lies grazing death,Sorry
@BOOOZB So now you admit you have no truth|? You said previously: “truth is available to anyone who studys it .No copyright is possible on cosmos physical or logical truth” and: “Any standard has to be decided collectivly , or statisticaly.” ... Now you say truth is "dangerous". And now we finally see you admit that truth is arbitrary, why should we accept anything you say? Is the statement "truth is arbitrary" a true statement? If so, can you prove it? Also,what "standard" do you speak of?
@BOOOZB Stop walking down blind alleys and give me a straight answer. What is truth? Who decides what truth is? As for the universe being “more crazy and awesome" without God, if God created, it logically follows that the universe is more “awesome” since it has a purposeful creator and is not the result of blind purposeless causes. How did order come out of disorder? Prove the claim God “didn't want us to know him directly”. Which god are you arguing against? A god made in YOUR image?
@Danny197437 I live in an area where Muslims are bashed because of their religion and have thus realised that people such as that do not understand reason. You have to reply with an overeaching argument in order to get your point across. Furthermore Muslims are killed en masse in the Middle East (3000 a wk in Iraq alone) and by doing what you criticised I was merely getting my point across to an ignorant fool who would not have understood otherwise.
@KorruptedReaper Yes but , our god sez " thou won't have no other god than me " , that means that we don't have anymore freedom ! Crazyest believers ( preachers ) tell us what is goo or evil , and we can't challenge. WE are not free men ! When god wants blood,we can't postpone !. In that case,western population are only mindless masses , formated by Jews to be used as herd of bison crippling Islam populations to robb soils. Their goal is a 1000 Y great Israeli Reich , from Caspian to Atlantic .
@Danny197437 On common sens standard !I am sorry for U but lies are the only fundation,the altar of any single cylindre religion engine..U'r used to cheat with truth . So listen = God is a human major concept so,IT MUST BE SERIOUS ie RELIABLE ! It has to be reliable ! And sorry:it isn't !A believer who believes shoud be able diving from top of cliff basing his safety only on praying to land safe at the foot of cliff. Sorry again , I prefer hang gliding to god,for this specific use.
@BOOOZB You are illiterate and utterly incoherent, Boo. Whose "common sense standard"? Yours or mine? You see, your "common sense standard" is not my "common sense standard". You talk about "lies" and "truth", so again, what *is* truth? You are presupposing absoloutes, which your world-view has no juistification for.
"So listen = Atheism is a human major concept so, IT MUST BE SERIOUS ie RELIABLE"... I just parroted your unsubstantiated (and shockingly illiterate) assertion.
@Danny197437 The human standards are " does it work , or not " God simply doesn't !
2000 y of empiric experience prooved it 2 millions times. And it's about to proove it once more : Jews , the self called " people of god" is deceiving and swindling all of our information to launch another world massacre . ( think TO INFORMATIONS ABOUT SYRIA = ALL are FORGED to push western people to war for their own goal ) . Do U need more ?
@BOOOZB My human standard says God "does work". So perhaps your standards are merely less evolved than mine. Perhaps I am from a far superior line of humans who has access to higher knowledge, and perhaps the only reason you disagree is because you are genetically inferior to me. Or perhaps your mother dropped you on your head when you were a child. Who cares?
You talk of "empiric" evidence, and again you are presupposing truth. What is truth?
@Danny197437 I just notice that you'r defining alone - by yourself only- your " own standard " , which contradicts the meaning of word " standard" ! Any standard has to be decided collectivly , or statisticaly. And so on... as long as the purpose is " am I superior " ( or inferior ), your speach can't be else than meaningless for the community . I 'm sorry , I don't want to hurt you in your myths, people who can't think by their own , who refuse the human " reason" need them.
@BOOOZB No, my own subjective standard is just as relevant as yours in a world of moral relativism. Don't you undestand even your own view of the world? How did "reason" arise naturally? I'll even allow you to use the Darwinian metaphor. Ready... Go!
@Danny197437 (....) And,I am no god,SO I have a great respect for any human:all of them. It's impossible to define any order-relationship on human.(sup. or inf. ) We are "complementary" by nature.A single of us can nothing.I am not a teacher in human thing, but only & ever a student.I need Ur knowledge ( if any ) ,you need mine (id) . Out of that,no human way forward,but slavery backto night times,as at middle age.Jews want to drive us back to that design,THEY being THE god
@KorruptedReaper On your very own criteria, I could level the same sweeping generalisations at you (Where I come from many Christians have been persecuted by Muslims). Does that give me the right to lump you in with intolerant Muslims that I know of?
On another note, where are you getting your Iraqi figures from?
@Audiostrum99 The xistnce of a Creator is beynd human comprehension, thus it is extremly hard to thnk of a being Who has always existd, n who has always knwn evrythng. Bt our status as humans in ths existnce means tht we r limitd, i.e. we are amazd by a persn who cn comprehend 20 thngs at 1ce bcoz 99.9% of us cnt. So to reject the theory of sch a being jst bcoz of the limitations He has set whn Creatng our existnce is not logical.
@Audiostrum99 Im very scientificaly minded n i need evidnce, i cnt jst hav faith in somthng. Bt to atribute the theory of imprabobility to Allah s.w.t is absurd, bcoz He was always in xistnce, yet in ur theory evelotionary stages began at a certain point. To state improbability suggests He 'began', bt He didnt, He was always ther (mayb an absurd theory, bt mor logical thn the imposible).
@Audiostrum99 Furthrmor, u cnt atribute the same concpt of imprabobility to Allah s.w.t bcoz ther has to be a point of begining. I cn completly undrstand ur scientific n persnal reasning behind qstning the xistnce of a Creator, howevr, if u state the absurd theory thers no need 4a start, thn i cn safely raise my absurd theory tht ther was a startng point nd my theory scientificaly has mor credence thn urs. Thus, obv, the startng point had NO begining.
@Audiostrum99 Actualy, ur argumnt is flawd. U jst turnd it bck on me n didnt xplain the points i raisd. Pls re-read my commnt jst 4a re-cap n xplain evry point i raisd. I alredy knw tht atheists believ in the evolution of complex organisms n orgns ovr millions of yrs n millions of species bt thts wht i am refutng. Pls xplain my points, sch as the failur of the systm to function wthout the alredy establishd parts, not a gradul addition of sch, whch is absurd to even suggst.
@TheMilkmanxxx I was born in Australia, im Irish-Italian, so im not Arab... Where do i go? I converted to Islam when i was 16, im 17, i live with my aunty and uncle in Sydney, so, how do I just 'go home' you dopey piece of shit? Furthermore, regardless if we all migrated to the Middle East, you pigs would still bomb us and profit from our deaths, thus cancelling this 'peace' youre speaking of. Shut up man. Just get an education, stop blaming Muslims for your shitty life, and shut the fuck up.
@KorruptedReaper Korrupted, on the one hand you're asking him to stop blaming Muslims for what (you assume) is his "shitty life", and on the other you are blaming him (and his, what, race? His country? The whole of the West? "you pigs"...?) for "our deaths". So we have you (rightly) asking for reasonableness out of one side of your mouth, while out of the other side of your mouth you make wholly unfounded and unreasonable assertions/generalisations about him and these "pigs". Education, you say?
@Audiostrum99 Where did I say, "because something is improbable, it therefore necessitates an equally improbable designer"? You haven’t a clue what you are talking about, Audio. The above is just a complete non-sequitur.
But still, explain your concept of “reality”? Why is your “grasp of reality” greater than mine? To what standard are you comparing your grasp of reality? From where did this ultimate standard come?
@Audiostrum99 You haven't "proved" a thing, Audio! "The designer would have to be AT LEAST EQUALLY improbable as the improbable entity you seek to explain via design." Prove this claim here right now. Don't look to Dawkins because Dawkins didn't prove it, either. And here's the kick: what if God *is* more improbable than the universe? How improbable an event is the universe? Don't improbabilities occur? Even if you were correct (which you're not) then you would still have no logical argument!
@Audiostrum99 The universe began to exist. The universe came into existence ‘at’ the big bang. Therefore the universe has not always existed. You are so flawed and out-of-date here, Audio. Now back to you proving your assertions. You‘ve ignored your duties once again:
Prove the claim that God is statistically and "logically" more improbable than the universe. Then prove the claim that an explanation must itself have an explanation in order for it to be an explanation.
@Audiostrum99 You are all over the place, man. Yes the infinite regression *is* absurd, which is why you need to stop advocating it. And yet you are still using it! There is no burden to "prove that God didn't need a designer"! Does an archaeologist, who finds ancient writing carved in stone which can only be attributed to human scribes, does he need an explanation for the explanation (the human scribe) in order for the explanation to be an adequate explanation?
@Audiostrum99 hi, I see that you are willing to discuss with others but not with me. I suppose my evidential requirements are very logical and reasonable and I further notice that you are even telling danny that unless he agrees with your 'logical reasoning' you will not continue! OH WELL!!!!!
@Audiostrum99 Explain it "in more depth"? You've just repeated the Darwinian metaphor! Everything you have said presupposes Darwinian Evolution. You've merely tried to explain away complexity using the fantastical Darwinian line. Well done. How do things become their opposites? How did order come out of disorder? How did life come out of non-life? How did inanimate matter become self-aware? How did reason arise naturally? Go on, I dare you to tell me it was the Darwinian miracle!
@Audiostrum99 Audio, did you seriously just say "who designed the designer"? Did you mean to say that? The statement is philosophically absurd, and it logically leads to an infinite regression of 'answers'! You've been reading too much Dawkins material and need to step out into reality. Prove the claim that God is statistically and "logically" more improbable than the universe. Then prove the claim that an explanation must itself have an explanation in order for it to be an explanation.
@Audiostrum99 By the way its in short hand writing because i access the internet by my Nokia so i cant do the verification code after too many posts, i have to wait 30 minutes. Thats why its in retard language, sorry for any inconvenience honestly.
@Audiostrum99 Gradul aditions culd nt acount 4the orign of sch a systm. It wuld hav 2com 2gethr fully formd n integratd. Many livng systms exhibt ths (vision, blud clottng, etc.). Whn u look at a watch, u assume ther was a watchmakr. A watch is 2complx 2 'happn' by chance. N yet sch livng systms r almost infinitly more times complx thn a watch. They culd not b randm - they simply had 2b designd n creatd.
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Is this video supposed to mean something or disprove something? It makes no sense.
Yerokian 11 hours ago
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Is this video supposed to mean something or disprove something? It makes no sense.
Yerokian 11 hours ago
Is this video supposed to mean something or disprove something? It makes no sense.
Yerokian 11 hours ago
@rx713bbp Peace be with you. I look forward to the day when most of mankind will reconnect with their Creator given intelligence and try to make the world a better place rather than hating because they cannot handle life. I wish the best for you.
AllTruthRevealed 3 days ago
Wow, people arguing over books. I didn't think this happened outside of Oxbridge.
MegaPaddy86 4 days ago
@MegaPaddy86 A rather simplistic statement. Are you that ignorant?
Danny197437 3 days ago
@Danny197437 Danny, it was a joke. Admittedly not a good one but what is there left to say about the deluded religious? It's not like any of them are making a serious point. They are well able to scrutinise each other's holy book but don't seemed to be able to go that last step and do it to their own.
MegaPaddy86 3 days ago
@MegaPaddy86 I'm glad you were not not being serious, since people have been "arguing over books" for centuries and do to this day. On what grounds do you call the religious deluded? On what grounds do you determine whether or not they are making a serious point? What makes you the 'judge' with regards to whether or not the religious scrutinise their own books? There seems to be an 'absolute standard' inherent in your words, so how do you arrive at this absolute standard?
Danny197437 2 days ago
@Danny197437 By having never heard a convincing argument for any religion and believe me, I've had a good look around. I think that answers all of your questions. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
MegaPaddy86 1 day ago
@MegaPaddy86 How on earth has that answered ANY of my questions? Am I seriously to take it that because YOU are not convinced then that settles it? I suggest you go back to my questions and take them one by one. "Extraordinary claims"? Like life coming from non-life? Like abiogenesis? There is evidence for NEITHER. But let's rewind somewhat. You talk of evidence. Evidence presupposes truth; now, can you explain for me what truth is? Your next effort had better be worth it!
Danny197437 8 hours ago
@Danny197437 Oh please, what bit of vital information did I miss that proves religion to be true? It has been shown that nothingness will create matter, you should watch 'something from nothing' videos on youtube for a beginners guide. I'm not taking your questions one by one as they all have the same principle answer. As for life coming from non-life, RNA will form spontaneously and it only had to happen once in 4.5 billion years. Truth is usually just a measure of probability. That is all.
MegaPaddy86 35 minutes ago
OR.. you could be an Atheist.
derkaboo 5 days ago
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Mocking Jesus on Israeli Zionist TV - צליבת ישו - The Crucifixion of Yeshu
watch?v=9RY83mAr5uA
How the jews treat christians in israel?
watch?v=IX9Tk2TMA6Q
Israeli talk show make fun of Jesus and Mary
watch?v=qtVpHUjwQSA
More Israeli Mockery of the Cross - פירורי חסידה
watch?v=KOKEvNfFDnc
Monkeys Talk About Religion
watch?v=MyxmTGt9H2E
mujahideentaliban 1 week ago
@FatFriendly1 And because the media just tells you Muslims are bad, you believe that.
KorruptedReaper 2 weeks ago
@KorruptedReaper If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a muslim terrorist.
justanoldman1 2 weeks ago
if the koran says the moon was made of gold they would believe it.
FatFriendly1 2 weeks ago
@FatFriendly1 yes cuz the quran was a gift from God its beautiful go and read it and you t turn into a Muslim
ali9996052 1 week ago
@ali9996052 Im GAY! I cant be a Muslim, even if I wanted to. Now dont tell me the Koran is the cure because people are born the way they are, and GOD LOVES THEM EQUALLY.
FatFriendly1 1 week ago
@ali9996052 Did you say muslim or zombie?
justanoldman1 1 week ago
Islam must be banned from western countries as it is the black plague of our time and muslims by breeding like rats are trying to spread their filth all around the world in a global jihad to impose sharia law on real people. When I say real people I mean people that are not insane or retarded.
justanoldman1 2 weeks ago 5
@justanoldman1 Hi, after you come out of your 'drunken stupor' (with the greatest of respect) and you are able to string together a sensible sentence, provide us with evidence of your contentions. I look forward to a reasoned response (if you are capable of doing so, respectfully I state.
AllTruthRevealed 2 weeks ago 2
@AllTruthRevealed Well following the news, 4 days of roits in Afghanistan over a few burned qurans.
It is just a book for god's sake and yet they riot and kill each other. Now that is worse than a drunken stupor, that is insanity.
Islam seems to get worse everyday. Iran with the bomb? Really?
Hopefully the good people of this world will not get killed and the problem will remain in islamic hell holes. The only good muslim is a dead muslim.
justanoldman1 2 weeks ago 2
@justanoldman1 Hi here we go again statements only but no evidence of your contentions about ISLAM because that is what you stated to which I responded. Your posts are clearly an indication that you 'hate' not knowing why, just like the alleged rioters in Afghanistan who are rioting not knowing all the facts (that is no excuse to riot) you however in the western world have no excuse because information is readily available. TRY responding evidentially. Thanks
AllTruthRevealed 2 weeks ago 2
@AllTruthRevealed no thanks
justanoldman1 2 weeks ago
@justanoldman1 Hi peace be with you. Your response is a sad reflection of the low standards that human beings have fallen to in these 'enlightened times'. The fact that you want to convince yourself of things that are not patently and evidentially true and insist on that path is really sad. I wish the best for you.
AllTruthRevealed 1 week ago 2
@AllTruthRevealed His sentences were fine. It is you who lacks grammar.
pimpedpope 2 days ago
@pimpedpope ??? Hello!
AllTruthRevealed 2 days ago
@justanoldman1 and we should kill you for not leaving our religion alone
ali9996052 1 week ago
@ali9996052 Tell me again how this is the religion of peace.
justanoldman1 1 week ago
@ali9996052 Wow, you sure showed him why Islam is the "religion of peace". I guess it's because there is nothing more peaceful than a dead body!
dancinkindofguy 1 week ago
@justanoldman1
Full Terry Jones on Let It Rip | April 21, 2011
TheMak11000 1 week ago
@justanoldman1 white people gonna be racist,cant change whats in their genes
diamondthundergold 1 week ago
@diamondthundergold That is bullshit just like you.
justanoldman1 1 week ago
@justanoldman1 you shouldnt say stuff like that.
MCconsolegamer 6 days ago
@justanoldman1 well your statement about Islam, muslims and sharia make you sound like an ignorant fool and a paranoid retarded moron....
Muhammadabubakrhamza 23 hours ago
@Muhammadabubakrhamza No, it is you a muslim that sounds like a paranoid retarded moron.
justanoldman1 12 hours ago
@justanoldman1 hey! why didn't you jsut simply say, "same to you!"? :P anyways...watch this...
watch?v=IYMKQKSV0bY&context=C46c2248ADvjVQa1PpcFM8jlfjMj1cxVNU_NtlBGIjOqijijIS-Hs=
Muhammadabubakrhamza 12 hours ago
God is a spaghetti monster
SimonSayzMusic 2 weeks ago
@l4rryh00verftw Hi what an 'intelligent' observation (in case you misunderstand it is meant in a sarcastic way) I dare you to try and be reasonable.
AllTruthRevealed 2 weeks ago
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Sin, wrath & repentance are apart of the Biblical message but so is grace & mercy. Christ's birth, life, death, resurrection & purpose are always missing from most open air preachers. They weigh heavy on sin, hell & our obedience. And, "Jesus' blood saves!" is about all you'll hear before they jump right back to "REPENT!" Lets not forget what motivates repentance... CHRIST.
MACGARCIAcom 2 weeks ago
alhamdulillah for islam. I am ready to die now or anyday because i am at paece with myself. but if u people cant handle a single bill u do suicide
memberluqman 3 weeks ago
@Danny197437 Well its pleasant to hear that we are both ready to disregard our differences in order to refute these ignorant atheistic claims. I wouldnt bother wasting my time with this next guy, i honestly cannot find a stable backbone from which his argument is being constructed. Im off until something interesting happens or Audio decides to reply... Im just happy youre not as ignorant as these people.
Peace.
KorruptedReaper 4 weeks ago
@KorruptedReaper Absolutely, friend.
Last time I looked, Audio had closed his account; the atheist has no rational foundations to even be here making an 'argument'. Witness the incoherent drivel coming out of the mouths of Spirifiume and BOOOZB.
Peace.
Danny197437 3 weeks ago
It really is amazing that there exists adults that can look at the universe, see that it is complex, and then proceed to invent an infinitely more complex cause and think they have somehow "explained" the universe
@gnomefro
AllTruthRevealed 4 weeks ago 8
@AllTruthRevealed Hi on what basis have you established that the universe is complex?
AllTruthRevealed 4 weeks ago
@AllTruthRevealed look around you fool.
globalchaos1984 3 weeks ago
Of course ALL believers are barking mad.
But islam is by far the most idiotic religion on this planet.
Spirifiume 1 month ago
@Spirifiume Congratulations. You have provided the most intelligent response so far. You da man!!
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Danny197437 : Thank you. Study and learn to use your brains and next time you see and hear religious BS you can identify the substance on your own.
Spirifiume 1 month ago
@Spirifiume The substance of what? You are making absolute truth claims about the nature of reality, but if your view of the nature of reality is the "truth" , then nothing at all matters anyway. If your assertions were true, then your ‘arguments’ are self-defeating!
Your view dictates that nothing at all matters, yet you tell believers they are “wrong”. You talk about your brain - why is your electrochemical brain state 'right 'and mine 'wrong'? What knowledge do you have that I don't?
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Danny197437 : The substance of BS of course.
First show me some convincing scientific evidence that your god exists.
You would be the first in 4.000 years.
Until you provide me with compelling evidence your god is in the same category as the Tooth Fairy and the Eastern Bunny.
Spirifiume 1 month ago
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Danny197437 1 month ago
@Spirifiume Nice way to avoid the fundamental questions which destroy your position.
What kind of substance is this BS? How did the electrochemical processes in your brain come to determine this?
There is plenty of scientific evidence, you just don't like the evidence because of your prescommitment to atheism.. Do you even understand the concept of evidence? Evidence presupposes truth, but what is truth?
How did reason arise naturally? How did inanimate matter become self-aware? Hm?
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Danny197437 It has no use having a discussion about religion or gods before you prove without a shadow of a doubt that gods exist.
You say there is plenty of scientific evidence.
Then it will be not difficult at all to provide me with ONE irrefutable repeatable peer-reviewed piece of scientific evidence for your claim.
I shall lean back in my chair until you provide that evidence.
Until that happens your god is still the like of Santa Claus and the Monster of Loch Ness.
Spirifiume 4 weeks ago
@Spirifiume "Proof" presupposes truth. What is truth? You're a philosophical coward who can't even face up to the tough questions. Do you understand the very basics of evidence and proof? You're a Dawkins groupie, stuck in a timewarp. Every time you make an argument you defeat your own position. What is truth, coward? Can you talk me through the process of how reason arose naturally? Why is your electrochemical and indifferent brain state right? What absolute standard are you appealing to?
Danny197437 4 weeks ago
@Danny197437 Nice, nice, but... where is your proof of god ?
Give me proof or go away.
Spirifiume 4 weeks ago
@Spirifiume Hey Coward, why do you keep ignoring the fundamental questions? Proof presupposes truth; what IS truth? Do you understand the concept of evidence? Do you understand the concept of proof?
"Give me proof or go away." How old are you?
Danny197437 3 weeks ago
@Danny197437 Hey windbag; "There is plenty of scientific evidence" you said, why don't you present it ? You can win a Nobel prize and be famous !
Spirifiume 3 weeks ago
@Spirifiume Hey Coward, do you understand the concepts of evidence and proof? You see the fine tuning of the universe? That's evidence of a creator? You see the incredible design the universe displays? That's evidence of a designer. Now, philosophical Coward, for the umpteenth time do you understand even the basics of 'evidence' and 'proof'? And again: What is truth? Are there absolute truths? Why are you so afraid to answer my questions?
Danny197437 3 weeks ago
@Danny197437 You are a liar and a windbag. You promised scientific evidence for the existence of your invisible magician: you come with nonsense.
"You see the incredible design the universe displays? That's evidence of a designer. "
That is the `scientific evidence` I asked for ? You are a joke, I'm done with you.
Spirifiume 3 weeks ago
@Spirifiume Hey Coward, you call me a liar? On what basis? Obviously you are so utterly inept that you *still* do not understand the concept of evidence! You need an immediate crash course in philosophy and logic, Coward. Yes I gave you evidence. Also, that we can do science at all presupposes God. But I tell you what, how about you give me an account for the uniformity of nature...? Can you justify induction without induction? Stop the outdated and childish Dawkinsian 'insults' and man up, boy!
Danny197437 3 weeks ago
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Spirifiume 3 weeks ago
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Spirifiume 3 weeks ago
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BOOOZB 4 weeks ago
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@Danny197437 Scientific " evidences" of a mythic belief is the oldest humor topic . Molière in " Les femmes savantes "plays nicely with this stupid side of mankind. Closer from us,today's most stupid among the Jews try accrediting that "they are more inteligent because Einstein",and they are stacking piles of guys names providing evidences...that a race link makes it .But when nazis use the same trick, it's an awfull lie..
Reason & basic intelligence lack the same way to both.
BOOOZB 4 weeks ago
@Danny197437 A God evidence should be as the evidence of the sun rising .Anyone , whatever the language or culture , should be convinced by this sensual evidence; A god who needs writings & books in coded vernaculars can only be a perverted human. Which we are never short of ,sorry : SPIRIFUME = are You a Jack Vance reader ? If so , I do like his concept of déiities , with his god named "Spirifume" ( Suldrun's Garden, The green pearl )
BOOOZB 4 weeks ago
@BOOOZB You've already conceded truth is arbitrary, and you have been dismissed as an incoherent fool. Why should I accept anything you say? In any case your latest post is rhetorical only, and entirely messed up: "A god who needs writings & books in coded vernaculars can only be a perverted human. Which we are never short of ,sorry". Prove the claim! I dare you now to prove this empty claim. "Perverted" implies there is a standard to which "god" is 'failing'... What standard? Yours? So what?
Danny197437 4 weeks ago
@Danny197437 I can't do more forYou.I only tried to help But .. The only formal truth is a grammar trick called logic.Usual truth can be only negative = You can't find what U look for in books nor Web.You have to accept to p(l)ay the game:dive from yr confort cliff down to "why Uwant live",then U'll be living and it's the greatest fate for human! So many being man shapd vegetables !.It may cost life (physical), but price is cheap anyway.God coms next & is for living earthlings only.
BOOOZB 4 weeks ago
@BOOOZB Can you expalin for me how abstract, invariable and universal laws of logic can exist in a materialistic world? Can you account for logical absolutes?
Why does one chemical state of the physical brain that leads to another chemical state of the physical brain produce logical absolutes which are not dependent on the physical brain for their validity? Will one of you incoherent atheists at least attempt to answer this question?
The rest of your post is yet more incoherent drivel.
Danny197437 3 weeks ago
@BOOOZB Congrats, you're the first who knows Spirifiume.
Jack Vance is a very beloved and honoured writer in my country.
And, indeed, I learned a lot from his deities and found Spirifiume the one and only God I can appreciate. Wish gods like christ and allah were like Spirifiume.
Spirifiume 4 weeks ago
@Spirifiume Hello !very dear Spirifume !How happy surprise to find a beliver of such a smart and sympathetic god from last of the Ranges of Cam,right over the " the Antlers of kernuun"Inn,where Dildahl the wellknown Innkeeper knows the best recipes of Quivern lake fish.I red it in French,but it's been my bible for years.When this world freezes my love for life,I fly dream airline to Sth Ulfland.Beer is cheap & belivers less fanaticized than in éra of jewish hatred on the Gaea planet!
BOOOZB 4 weeks ago
@Spirifiume Hi I assume that you are one of those rare individuals who can intelligently and reasonably substantiate your allegations concerning Islam. If so please provide us with the evidence to substantiate your claim.
AllTruthRevealed 1 month ago
@AllTruthRevealed : Rare ? That's me and about 4 billion other individuals.
First give me evidence that your god allah exists and is not a figment of your overheated imagination.
Spirifiume 1 month ago
@Spirifiume ....how are muslims anoying you? they don't anoy me... if anything all they do is cook me nice food at the local takeaway lol!
Mugetsui 3 weeks ago
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@Mugetsui ."...how are muslims anoying you? they don't anoy me... if anything all they do is cook me nice food at the local takeaway lol! "
Wait until the Khalifate is world-wide and you have to obey the sharia laws.
Your "lol" will disappear quickly.
Spirifiume 3 weeks ago
Just look how they all believe in bucaillism (1976, bucaille: miracles in quran) and how they think that the customs of Muhammad are a divine law and do not read the Quran in historical context. They repeat the old primum movens arguments, that were already refuted by the Greeks and then of course it is their imperialist whishes ("islam will rule the world"), that are very disturbing. And they have never studied the crimes in their own history and celebrate their wars, if they won
AustrianAtheist 3 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist Hi you have made quite a few allegations and accusations concerning Islam. I would be interested in the evidence to substantiate your allegations and accusations. I am certain that you possess the evidence otherwise you lwould not hold the position that you are currently holding. I look forward to the evidence.
AllTruthRevealed 3 weeks ago
Evidence on what? On the cooperation between Saudi instutions and Maurice Bucaille for promoting the miracle crap in the 70s? (which is of course rejected by educated muslims)
It is just my personal experience, that many muslims do not understand the whole debate on things like the primum movens issue (I know that the old arabs have studied Aristotle, but today they are totally ignorant on philosophy, while Christian theology mostly understand how absurd the "God of gap" argument [gap->God]is)
AustrianAtheist 3 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist "God of the gaps"? The Christian God is the God of everything, not just any "gaps". You talk about your personal experience, so how do you account for objective truth? Are you making absolute truth claims here, or should we just dismiss your ramblings as yet another incoherent atheist spewing out his personal distaste and incredulity? Can you account for universal, abstract and unchanging laws of logic in your fantastical world? Can you explain how reason arose naturally?
Danny197437 3 weeks ago
"Gott der Lücken" (translation: God of the gaps) is a concept in Christian theology, which opposes arguments like "Who created the big bang?" because it is not evidence for the existence of God, if scientists do not understand something. However, some evangelical movements and most islamic groups still use the argument, which was already refuted 300 years ago, which proves my point, they have not studied logic/philosophy. Even if I could not explain reason (I can) this would not prove anything
AustrianAtheist 3 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist The “god of the gaps” argument is a fringe argument and was refuted long ago - by Christians. You admit attacking something refuted “300 years ago“. You’re attacking an Aunt Sally, a non-existent argument to any serious apologist. What else have you got? How about bringing something original?
Danny197437 3 weeks ago
Is it really so hard to understand? I do point out the fact, that those people still use such primitive arguments. There are so many muslims on youtube, who repeat the watchmaker-claim - totally ignoring the historical debate on it. You are also totally ignorant on simple terminology and mixing up "logic", "reason", "truth" like a madman.
AustrianAtheist 3 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist No, I understand perfectly, and you are attacking the irrelevant and fringe “god of the gaps” argument. But I tell you what, I’ll play along and ask you to give me a very brief rundown on the “blind watchmaker” debate, since you mention this specifically. Can you explain the “historical debate” in a nutshell?
Danny197437 3 weeks ago
The watchmaker simply denies the power of evolution by natural selection. With the first self-replicating molecules evolution kicks in. It is obvious that living things are the result of evolutionary processes while a clock is not. Logic is simply the study of correct reasoning, has nothing to do with God. The evolution of the human brain indeed is a beautiful thing leading to human self-awarness and the human idea of reason. A mere belief without proper evidence has nothing to do with a truth.
AustrianAtheist 3 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist Hi there, this post is from ALLTRUTHREVEALED, I am surprised that you have decided not to respond to our posts yet you are responding to other posts. Please clarify whether you want to continue the discussion. Thanks.
AllTruthRevealed 3 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist No, that is not what the “blind watchmaker” says. Try again. And again, can you explain the “historical debate”? Please provide evidence for these “first self-replicating molecules”. You are extrapolating from a presupposed position to an unknown situation. Stop repeating the Darwinian metaphor and think for yourself!
Danny197437 3 weeks ago
"The blind watchmaker" is a book by Dawkins, that I can recommend. You are talking about the silly 1802 Paley "watchmaker analogy". Use the correct terms, google it and learn, why it is childish. RNA is such a self-replicating molecule. We still do not know some details, but Abiogenesis is not a big mystery anymore. (I think it were different molecules replicating each other). Dolphins and chimps are also self-aware -> result of a huge, developped brain. nope, a truth needs evidence.
AustrianAtheist 3 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist Very kind of you to recommend it. I’ve read it - have you? I am using the correct terms, and have asked you to show me where the book ’refutes’ anything. Remember, I’m playing along with your “evidence” claim. Dawkins went in way over his head with his “blind watchmaker”, so it would be interesting to see you defend that flop.
Unanswered questions:
So when did evolution produce self-awareness?
Are you saying reason and logic are conventions among men?
What is truth?
Danny197437 2 weeks ago
it is hard to explain many different things. Let me begin with self.awarness. Many apes including human beings recognize themselves in mirrors, so do Dolphins and some other whales. Reason and logical thinking can even be found in crows. The mind is nothing supernatural, but simple brain activity. Take a drug. it changes your consciousness, your feelings, opinions. Is it really that hard to understand?
AustrianAtheist 2 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist
1. You're telling me nothing! How do things become their opposites? We know that self-awareness is true; I’m asking how inanimate matter *became* self-aware! Try reading what I am saying.
2. So crows have access to laws of logic? Would you care to expand?
3. You are talking about *changes* in consciousness; you are not *accounting* for consciousness! Is it really that hard to understand?
Danny197437 2 weeks ago
Crows are able to build tools, do communicate, have an impressive problem-solving ability. Many very different species from crows to dolphins show impressive intelligence/self awareness. It is pretty obvious that intelligent animals often had a higher survival and reproduction rate, which led to crows/human beings/bottleneck dolphins/chimps. What you call consciousness is just the brain working. if you smash the brain, it is over. No need for God to explain it. Give me evidence for your Gods!
AustrianAtheist 2 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist What are you bleating on about? I asked you if crows have access to laws of logic. Do they?
"It is pretty obvious that intelligent animals often had a higher survival and reproduction rate, which led to crows/human beings/bottleneck dolphins/chimps."
This is a tautology. Why is it “pretty obvious”?
"No need for God to explain it. Give me evidence for your Gods!"
Sure, when you begin to address some questions. Evidence presupposes truth; again, what is truth?
Danny197437 2 weeks ago
@Danny197437 Don't confuss then with facts, their little minds are made up.
justanoldman1 2 weeks ago
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@AustrianAtheist "What you call consciousness is just the brain working. if you smash the brain, it is over."
What an utterly feeble argument! If the brain is a platform for the mind, then removing or damaging the platform changes the performance levels of the mind. If there is damage to a computer’s hardware, many of the expectations of the software will not function correctly. The concept of duality is not damaged when one part or the other malfunctions.
Are you really so inept?
Danny197437 2 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist Functional RNA catalysts arise once RNA bases are arranged into information-rich sequences. If RNA was a precursor to life, it would need to acquire genetic information. The theory provides no explanation for the origin of the genetic information contained in the RNA. Abiogenesis is your religion.
“We still do not know some details”
Is this a science-of-the-gaps argument you are giving me here? One has to marvel at the utter hypocrisy coming from the incoherent atheist!
Danny197437 2 weeks ago
You are mixing up DNA and RNA. RNA is capable of storing genetic information, like DNA, and to catalyze chemical reactions, like an enzyme protein. You are indeed using the retarded 17th century "gap" argument. Even, if we did not know anything about abiogenesis, this would not be an argument for the existing of some mythological figures. With every new experiment, the role of your childish "Gap-god" shrinks. Soon it will only have created the big bang, lol
AustrianAtheist 2 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist I’m mixing up nothing; if you do not understand the issues you should not be here! For your ‘theory’ to be true, RNA molecules capable of fully replicating themselves must exist. RNA catalysts, including those with partial self-copying ability, show the function of these molecules depends on the precise arrangement of their information-carrying constituents (their nucleotide bases). Function arises not before but *after* the information problem has been solved.
Danny197437 2 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist So you do not solve the problem, you presupposes a solution in the form of an information-rich RNA molecule capable of copying itself. That's anti-scienceNo gap arguments here; I’m asking you to substantiate your claims. There's no evidence that abiogenesis ever took place, but what we see from the incoherent atheist is a science-of-the-gaps argument, even when he admits he knows nothing about abiogenesis; which is hardly surprising, since you cannot justify abiogenesis!
Danny197437 2 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist Hey AustrianZombie,
Unanswered questions:
So when did evolution produce self-awareness?
Are you saying reason and logic are conventions among men?
What is truth?
Danny197437 2 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist Laws of logic define the basic and unbreakable parameters of human thinking. They are immaterial, unchanging and universal. They have *nothing* to do with materialism.
So when did evolution produce self-awareness?
Are you saying reason and logic are conventions among men?
“Evidence” presupposes truth; what is truth?
You haven’t addressed anything, you’ve merely repeated the defunct Darwinian party line. Your fool’s philosophy is blinding you.
Danny197437 3 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist And I’ll give you another chance, zombie: Why are you here making truth claims? What *is* truth? What are the laws of logic? How do you explain immaterial, universal, unchanging laws of logic? I’m not mixing anything up; and finally I’ll ask again, how did reason arise through the genetic code? Can you explain laws of thought. Can you give me even a slight explanation of how inanimate matter became self-aware? Surely you must be able to give me something?
Danny197437 3 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist Why are you here making claims to truth? What is truth? You talk about logic and philosophy. If reason is the product of evolutionary processes, how do you explain immaterial, abstract, universal and invariable laws of logic? If your view of the nature of reality is the "truth", then nothing matters anyway. If your assertions were true, then your ‘arguments’ are self-defeating! You have a fool’s philosophy, and just being here refutes your world-view. You’re the walking dead.
Danny197437 3 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist Hi I would rather you tried to address the question posed evidentially. Instead you decide to tell me that it is your PERSONAL experience (subjective) and even worse you proceed on that basis to state yet more subjective notions (completely devoid of objective evidence). Please try again AND ADDRESS THE QUESTION EVIDENTIALLY.
AllTruthRevealed 3 weeks ago
All religious people should study confirmation bias and auto-indoctrination.
Your nickname mentions truth, but a truth ex definicione assumes inter-subjective provability. If people mix up a belief and a truth, then all logic is gone. The false terminology indicates the anti-logic.
And yes, no offense but all those silly people, who only want to hear what their preachers tell them, will never understand, what truth is. It is confirmation bias
AustrianAtheist 3 weeks ago
@AustrianAtheist YET MORE VERBOSITY! I venture to suggest that you cannot address issues evidentially. The fact that you are only reliant on your subjective notions is a clear indication that you may not possess the necessary evidence to substantiate your position. If you do possess the evidence (OBJECTIVE) please provide it as that is what I have sought from you.
AllTruthRevealed 3 weeks ago
@Spirifiume You are forgetting, Scientology and Mormonism :D
tigerclaw1000 3 weeks ago
Muslims are useless sneaky wolf in sheeps clothing lunatics
Thevoiceofoz 1 month ago
@money4idiotz Hi your comment is unusual. Although none of us, meaning human beings can ever be as good as Christ was, we can how ever aspire to be good and righteous.As for most Muslims being not as bad as Muhammed s.a.w. is absolutely incorrect.What i mean by that is Muhammed s.a.w. was the best of creation in his conduct, and behavior.
AllTruthRevealed 1 month ago
@AllTruth Only this : how could you trust a jew's tale of today whre profit is at stake ? ( according to news: & israel crimes & lies).So how rely to tales told to be from 2 th years ? They invented lies from long ago.If any christ ever existed, I need other evidences than the words of the most renown people of liars & thieves.God can only be evidenced inside the matter of by observation the deep universe or..anything that is an evidence for anyone with eyes .
BOOOZB 4 weeks ago
@BOOOZB I will try again, I requested evidence from you to substantiate your allegations concerning Islam. You instead make yet more statements devoid of the evidential requirement. If you can substantiate your allegations evidentially, we can proceed to address the issue of the Creator and observation.
AllTruthRevealed 4 weeks ago
@BOOOZB Apologies my previous post has been directed in error to you.
AllTruthRevealed 4 weeks ago
@BOOOZB If Christ ever existed? The earliest manuscript evidence we have for Jesus' existence dates to within 10s of years of His death. Do you dispute the existence of Caesar? Or Plato? Or perhaps Homer? Evidence for Caesar dates back to 1000 years after his death. For Plato the evidence dates to as ’early’ as 1300 years after his death. For Homer's Iliad it dates back to 500 years after his death. Do you question their existence? Do you have the first clue as to what you are talking about?
Danny197437 3 weeks ago
@Danny197437 I can't deny or asserts anything from those times.I just know the stories which came to us from these old times.What I CAN deny is the asserts of surnatural facts at those supposed times or any others.But I wont debate this here.I respect your belief,cause it helps you live easyer.Only for that positive results, I wouldn't brake anything of what means a personnal equilibrium for lots of poor peoples. By this help to human suffering,religion justifys itself. .
BOOOZB 3 weeks ago
@BOOOZB Of course you have no answers. How do you know why I believe? Can you demonstrate how helping people live "easyer" (sic) necessarily makes a belief untrue? How do you know believers are "poor peoples" (sic)? How can you deny the supernatural? Do you know what a supernatural event entails? For once will you attempt to answer the questions? You've avoided everything put your way thus far.
Danny197437 3 weeks ago
@Danny197437 Unfortunately the atheist isnt returning my argument. And i wasnt being arrogant to you, i just didnt want to continue that argument as it was in essence useless to my main argumentive goal with Audio. And one more thing, is 1974 your birth date? And were you 37 when you created your account...
KorruptedReaper 1 month ago
@KorruptedReaper I understand and agree, and alas Audio has bitten the dust; it won't be long before this latest incoherent atheist goes the same way. And, strange as it sounds, I'm happy to team up with the Muslims on here to expose the utter vacuousness of the atheist position. So I'm not necessarily arguing with you for the sake of it, Korrupted. As for my account name, you are entirely correct.
Danny197437 1 month ago
that black guy seems to be a thick cunt here (Im black by the way)
yougonasorry 1 month ago
@Danny197437 Im not generalising. I stated a fact with an evidential background: that ive learnt reason does not work, and ive learnt this through Muslim persecution in my area. My basis of argument isnt in who persecutes who, its in the fact that people like him, of any religion, EVEN Islam, dont understand reason. I dont know what youre on about. Also, i as a human being have terrible memory, so sorry, i cant supply my source of information. Please dont continue this.
Peace.
KorruptedReaper 1 month ago
@KorruptedReaper Fair enough - I'd rather deal with the atheists anyway.
Peace.
Danny197437 1 month ago
I wonder how Asian people ( VietNam,Koréa,China,Cambodia, Siam.) who are the wisest people on Earth judge us and our madness with our exclusive single god ? Thou shan't 'have no other god before Me "The worst & crazyest sentence ever ! When these human from far east watch catholic vicars and protestant pastors fighting like cats & dogs,Jews spreading hatred against Islam, and all of them burning each other as heretics,antisemitics déviationnist ,négationnists or "infidèles :they may laugh at us
BOOOZB 1 month ago
@BOOOZB What on earth are you going on about? Prove the "wisest people on earth" claim. Are you seriously implying multiple gods is more rational than a single creator God? Your post is just one long incoherent rant, full of baseless assertions.
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Danny1 ARE U SERIOUS ?! Anyone can judge! How many WW from Asia ? How many nuke extermination from Asia ? How many Asian killed and havoc western countries ? China invented gun powder + 3000 Yago,they never made dastard guns out of their knowledge,do U think it's because they couldn't ?or by wisdom.They made very good rockets and cannons FOR FUN (fireworks) 3000Y befor JC (J.Caesar).When powder arrived at western whit christians:it needd 300 Y to make army's guns,& not by wisdom !
BOOOZB 1 month ago
@BOOOZB In a world of moral relativism there *is no* good or evil, Boo. You are stealing from the theistic world-view an absoloute moral standard which you could not justify given atheism. What is right and wrong? What is truth? You are utterly inconsistent with your world-view. A "morally outraged" atheist is an inconsistent and incoherent fool. You obviously need to abandon your atheism or else abandon your empty "outrage".
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Danny197437 I agree with you,though I didn't steal anything.Natur truth is available to anyone who studys it .No copyright is possible on cosmos physical or logical truth, I 'm sorry for that.Human survival law is: does it work or not.Religion just can't supply any help to human fate, so - needing energy - it is a noxious practice.The cosmos has been made to be understood,not to be believed.If billions of praying had produced only a force of a femto-Newton,it would be all different
BOOOZB 1 month ago
@BOOOZB So truth is whatever anyone who "studies it" decides? This is just flat-out gobbledegook; it's a tautology, Boo!! You're all over the place, fella. You're assuming an undefined "truth". Now again: what is truth?
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Danny197437 NO !The truth is not what WE "decide" but that the study allows us to see.The discovery job,necessary to print cosmos rules allows you to open a small window on the amazing fantastic,and endlessly marvelous cosmos. It's more crazy and awesome than what any spring god inventor could fancy with acid pills or by the Flanders self convicing wild flight.God,if U like this human image,didn't want us to know him directly! Mankind has been given the means to climb towards,
BOOOZB 1 month ago
@BOOOZB (...) towards his direction.But if U like:at the state we are (primate), god is only a "direction"towards which we have to climb by acquyring knoledge. Religious men just cheat,caus too narrow.it's a very long climb,but the main is not arrival, but progressin in the right directn.It's very simple : we are fitted with th necessary tools.In respect of god we must only use them as common sens shows us.No book ! no cheat all is written in clear in Natur= cosmos! Maths = prayin to now
BOOOZB 1 month ago
@BOOOZB If we are nothing more than blind chemical processes, how do you account for meraningful knowledge? How would you explain our ability to reason and obtain knowledge?
No brain state can be ‘true’ or ‘false’ since our brain states are not *about* anything.
Why does one chemical state of the physical brain that leads to another chemical state of the physical brain produce abstract, invariable, universal logical absolutes which are not dependent on the physical brain for their validity?
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Danny197 You want answers !! Univers is no sex shop! !Neither I nor anyone can give U answers !.Thos who do are most dangerous guys.I only can help:how to find Ur first question.I hope U'r young enough to start Urquest!.1st:stop fearing life.Go fighting with yr fear=only way to learn who U are.(forinst,go ALONE climb a fearsom mountain where no one can help if U fail=Back from it alive U'll own yourself.Then U can go outside meet peoples.Our first truth lies grazing death,Sorry
BOOOZB 1 month ago
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@BOOOZB So now you admit you have no truth|? You said previously: “truth is available to anyone who studys it .No copyright is possible on cosmos physical or logical truth” and: “Any standard has to be decided collectivly , or statisticaly.” ... Now you say truth is "dangerous". And now we finally see you admit that truth is arbitrary, why should we accept anything you say? Is the statement "truth is arbitrary" a true statement? If so, can you prove it? Also,what "standard" do you speak of?
Danny197437 1 month ago
@BOOOZB Stop walking down blind alleys and give me a straight answer. What is truth? Who decides what truth is? As for the universe being “more crazy and awesome" without God, if God created, it logically follows that the universe is more “awesome” since it has a purposeful creator and is not the result of blind purposeless causes. How did order come out of disorder? Prove the claim God “didn't want us to know him directly”. Which god are you arguing against? A god made in YOUR image?
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Danny197437 I live in an area where Muslims are bashed because of their religion and have thus realised that people such as that do not understand reason. You have to reply with an overeaching argument in order to get your point across. Furthermore Muslims are killed en masse in the Middle East (3000 a wk in Iraq alone) and by doing what you criticised I was merely getting my point across to an ignorant fool who would not have understood otherwise.
KorruptedReaper 1 month ago
@KorruptedReaper Yes but , our god sez " thou won't have no other god than me " , that means that we don't have anymore freedom ! Crazyest believers ( preachers ) tell us what is goo or evil , and we can't challenge. WE are not free men ! When god wants blood,we can't postpone !. In that case,western population are only mindless masses , formated by Jews to be used as herd of bison crippling Islam populations to robb soils. Their goal is a 1000 Y great Israeli Reich , from Caspian to Atlantic .
BOOOZB 1 month ago
@BOOOZB By what standard are you judging good and evil?
Prove the claim "WE are not free men". As for the rest... yet more incoherent and baseless assertions. You're not atheist by any chance, are you?
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Danny197437 On common sens standard !I am sorry for U but lies are the only fundation,the altar of any single cylindre religion engine..U'r used to cheat with truth . So listen = God is a human major concept so,IT MUST BE SERIOUS ie RELIABLE ! It has to be reliable ! And sorry:it isn't !A believer who believes shoud be able diving from top of cliff basing his safety only on praying to land safe at the foot of cliff. Sorry again , I prefer hang gliding to god,for this specific use.
BOOOZB 1 month ago
@BOOOZB You are illiterate and utterly incoherent, Boo. Whose "common sense standard"? Yours or mine? You see, your "common sense standard" is not my "common sense standard". You talk about "lies" and "truth", so again, what *is* truth? You are presupposing absoloutes, which your world-view has no juistification for.
"So listen = Atheism is a human major concept so, IT MUST BE SERIOUS ie RELIABLE"... I just parroted your unsubstantiated (and shockingly illiterate) assertion.
Pathetic.
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Danny197437 The human standards are " does it work , or not " God simply doesn't !
2000 y of empiric experience prooved it 2 millions times. And it's about to proove it once more : Jews , the self called " people of god" is deceiving and swindling all of our information to launch another world massacre . ( think TO INFORMATIONS ABOUT SYRIA = ALL are FORGED to push western people to war for their own goal ) . Do U need more ?
BOOOZB 1 month ago
@BOOOZB My human standard says God "does work". So perhaps your standards are merely less evolved than mine. Perhaps I am from a far superior line of humans who has access to higher knowledge, and perhaps the only reason you disagree is because you are genetically inferior to me. Or perhaps your mother dropped you on your head when you were a child. Who cares?
You talk of "empiric" evidence, and again you are presupposing truth. What is truth?
Prove your paranoid claims about the Jews.
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Danny197437 I just notice that you'r defining alone - by yourself only- your " own standard " , which contradicts the meaning of word " standard" ! Any standard has to be decided collectivly , or statisticaly. And so on... as long as the purpose is " am I superior " ( or inferior ), your speach can't be else than meaningless for the community . I 'm sorry , I don't want to hurt you in your myths, people who can't think by their own , who refuse the human " reason" need them.
BOOOZB 1 month ago
@BOOOZB No, my own subjective standard is just as relevant as yours in a world of moral relativism. Don't you undestand even your own view of the world? How did "reason" arise naturally? I'll even allow you to use the Darwinian metaphor. Ready... Go!
Danny197437 1 month ago
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BOOOZB 1 month ago
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BOOOZB 1 month ago
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@Danny197437 (....) And,I am no god,SO I have a great respect for any human:all of them. It's impossible to define any order-relationship on human.(sup. or inf. ) We are "complementary" by nature.A single of us can nothing.I am not a teacher in human thing, but only & ever a student.I need Ur knowledge ( if any ) ,you need mine (id) . Out of that,no human way forward,but slavery backto night times,as at middle age.Jews want to drive us back to that design,THEY being THE god
BOOOZB 1 month ago
@KorruptedReaper On your very own criteria, I could level the same sweeping generalisations at you (Where I come from many Christians have been persecuted by Muslims). Does that give me the right to lump you in with intolerant Muslims that I know of?
On another note, where are you getting your Iraqi figures from?
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Audiostrum99 The xistnce of a Creator is beynd human comprehension, thus it is extremly hard to thnk of a being Who has always existd, n who has always knwn evrythng. Bt our status as humans in ths existnce means tht we r limitd, i.e. we are amazd by a persn who cn comprehend 20 thngs at 1ce bcoz 99.9% of us cnt. So to reject the theory of sch a being jst bcoz of the limitations He has set whn Creatng our existnce is not logical.
KorruptedReaper 1 month ago
@Audiostrum99 Im very scientificaly minded n i need evidnce, i cnt jst hav faith in somthng. Bt to atribute the theory of imprabobility to Allah s.w.t is absurd, bcoz He was always in xistnce, yet in ur theory evelotionary stages began at a certain point. To state improbability suggests He 'began', bt He didnt, He was always ther (mayb an absurd theory, bt mor logical thn the imposible).
KorruptedReaper 1 month ago
@Audiostrum99 Furthrmor, u cnt atribute the same concpt of imprabobility to Allah s.w.t bcoz ther has to be a point of begining. I cn completly undrstand ur scientific n persnal reasning behind qstning the xistnce of a Creator, howevr, if u state the absurd theory thers no need 4a start, thn i cn safely raise my absurd theory tht ther was a startng point nd my theory scientificaly has mor credence thn urs. Thus, obv, the startng point had NO begining.
KorruptedReaper 1 month ago
@Audiostrum99 Actualy, ur argumnt is flawd. U jst turnd it bck on me n didnt xplain the points i raisd. Pls re-read my commnt jst 4a re-cap n xplain evry point i raisd. I alredy knw tht atheists believ in the evolution of complex organisms n orgns ovr millions of yrs n millions of species bt thts wht i am refutng. Pls xplain my points, sch as the failur of the systm to function wthout the alredy establishd parts, not a gradul addition of sch, whch is absurd to even suggst.
KorruptedReaper 1 month ago
@TheMilkmanxxx I was born in Australia, im Irish-Italian, so im not Arab... Where do i go? I converted to Islam when i was 16, im 17, i live with my aunty and uncle in Sydney, so, how do I just 'go home' you dopey piece of shit? Furthermore, regardless if we all migrated to the Middle East, you pigs would still bomb us and profit from our deaths, thus cancelling this 'peace' youre speaking of. Shut up man. Just get an education, stop blaming Muslims for your shitty life, and shut the fuck up.
KorruptedReaper 1 month ago
@KorruptedReaper Korrupted, on the one hand you're asking him to stop blaming Muslims for what (you assume) is his "shitty life", and on the other you are blaming him (and his, what, race? His country? The whole of the West? "you pigs"...?) for "our deaths". So we have you (rightly) asking for reasonableness out of one side of your mouth, while out of the other side of your mouth you make wholly unfounded and unreasonable assertions/generalisations about him and these "pigs". Education, you say?
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Audiostrum99 Where did I say, "because something is improbable, it therefore necessitates an equally improbable designer"? You haven’t a clue what you are talking about, Audio. The above is just a complete non-sequitur.
But still, explain your concept of “reality”? Why is your “grasp of reality” greater than mine? To what standard are you comparing your grasp of reality? From where did this ultimate standard come?
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Audiostrum99 You haven't "proved" a thing, Audio! "The designer would have to be AT LEAST EQUALLY improbable as the improbable entity you seek to explain via design." Prove this claim here right now. Don't look to Dawkins because Dawkins didn't prove it, either. And here's the kick: what if God *is* more improbable than the universe? How improbable an event is the universe? Don't improbabilities occur? Even if you were correct (which you're not) then you would still have no logical argument!
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Audiostrum99 The universe began to exist. The universe came into existence ‘at’ the big bang. Therefore the universe has not always existed. You are so flawed and out-of-date here, Audio. Now back to you proving your assertions. You‘ve ignored your duties once again:
Prove the claim that God is statistically and "logically" more improbable than the universe. Then prove the claim that an explanation must itself have an explanation in order for it to be an explanation.
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Audiostrum99 You are all over the place, man. Yes the infinite regression *is* absurd, which is why you need to stop advocating it. And yet you are still using it! There is no burden to "prove that God didn't need a designer"! Does an archaeologist, who finds ancient writing carved in stone which can only be attributed to human scribes, does he need an explanation for the explanation (the human scribe) in order for the explanation to be an adequate explanation?
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Audiostrum99 hi, I see that you are willing to discuss with others but not with me. I suppose my evidential requirements are very logical and reasonable and I further notice that you are even telling danny that unless he agrees with your 'logical reasoning' you will not continue! OH WELL!!!!!
AllTruthRevealed 1 month ago
@Audiostrum99 Explain it "in more depth"? You've just repeated the Darwinian metaphor! Everything you have said presupposes Darwinian Evolution. You've merely tried to explain away complexity using the fantastical Darwinian line. Well done. How do things become their opposites? How did order come out of disorder? How did life come out of non-life? How did inanimate matter become self-aware? How did reason arise naturally? Go on, I dare you to tell me it was the Darwinian miracle!
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Audiostrum99 Audio, did you seriously just say "who designed the designer"? Did you mean to say that? The statement is philosophically absurd, and it logically leads to an infinite regression of 'answers'! You've been reading too much Dawkins material and need to step out into reality. Prove the claim that God is statistically and "logically" more improbable than the universe. Then prove the claim that an explanation must itself have an explanation in order for it to be an explanation.
Danny197437 1 month ago
@Audiostrum99 By the way its in short hand writing because i access the internet by my Nokia so i cant do the verification code after too many posts, i have to wait 30 minutes. Thats why its in retard language, sorry for any inconvenience honestly.
KorruptedReaper 1 month ago
@Audiostrum99 Gradul aditions culd nt acount 4the orign of sch a systm. It wuld hav 2com 2gethr fully formd n integratd. Many livng systms exhibt ths (vision, blud clottng, etc.). Whn u look at a watch, u assume ther was a watchmakr. A watch is 2complx 2 'happn' by chance. N yet sch livng systms r almost infinitly more times complx thn a watch. They culd not b randm - they simply had 2b designd n creatd.
KorruptedReaper 1 month ago
@Audiostrum99 Tht is a brilliant argumnt n ive got 2say ill nevr use my argumnt again evn against s