Bio-Luddism and Transhumanism

[poetpiet]

as it is that green hand is not extended but over extended ... E-waste is literally out of hand ... and that's only part of the gap between what GMO does and what evil idiots who like to use labs full of toxic, overpricey, overcomplicey stupid toys expect from it. Learn from Burbank who used his naked eyes for vast improvements. Nooooooo, GMO types and other centra(list a)ilment bent pretentious nutters know best what's good for the rest: be skinned.

[gladiator1010]

And evolution in morality would be better than a scientific evolution

Science will only make tyranny more dangerous and pervasive...oh but tyranny is an ancient conspiracy theory, I forgot

"You will be as God, You will not die"....they literally the two oldest lies in the book

What happens if plagues and wrath are poured out and death would be a blessing, what then?

[D0p3Smuggl3r]

Ain't it ironic the way technology advances while humankind does the exact opposite?

If you want to aid in the advancement of mankind, break out the sledgehammers, smash some TV's, then go out and acquire a soul.

I mean think about it; if this works out, people like me could potentially annoy the crap out of you for the next 2000 years or longer.

[lemsip]

Sounds like a Sat Nav voice rather than a real one. Says it all about transhumanism.

[1StoryImageFigure1]

Luddites and primitivists are a bunch of regressive defeatists. Thankfully, the vast majority of humanity are not stupid enough to fall for their bullshit.

[TurkishMusicianPr]

i'm happy that i woudnt be borned at 2300 2500 or what else in future..

[Fibonaccie]

I have nothing against the individual right to improve himself. Nevertheless genetical enhancement means that you manipulate the genome of somebody else. Even though I am an admirer of technological revolution we must reconsider our moral capacities to deal with sideeffects of manipulation. For example, who is taking the responsibility for genetically enhanced individuals who might get by that serious diseases? We are not just dealing with objects, but with real human beings.

[1NX9]

I'm all for transhumanism.

Even genetic engineering sciences like Gene Therapy can cure people of diseases by altering one's DNA. Also the side benefits it can take the burden of health costs off. In the future we can master our own biological destiny instead of being enslaved by it.

[TwiPrime]

Maybe a quote from a pop song is appropriate here?

"You cannot go against nature, Because when you do Go against nature, That's part of nature, too."  --Love and Rockets

[kilgonus]

Zardoz already explored the logical conclusion to the argument of Bio-Luddism and Transhumanism in 1974, though the two viewpoints weren't known in these terms, at that time.

Ah, how history repeats itself...

[Sinuev1]

Many people seem to consider transhumanist philosophy as synonymous with eugenics of the past century. I think it's important to note that the two are quite different - as eugenics is the selective breeding of human beings by an authoritative agent.. which by it's very nature restricts and undermines individual liberty. By contrast, transhumanist efforts and proposed technology are highly individualized, allowing freedom of choice without the problem of needing a population-wide effort to work.

[Sinuev1]

@Sinuev1

Further, as eugenics efforts (being chained to population management) took multiple generations to even see any effect - it was bound tightly with social engineering, as it needed a goal to breed towards. Transhumanism has no social engineering component (that I've ever seen) and the society which is created by the application of transhumanist facilitating technologies is emergent and unpredictable... but at least we will be better prepared to address and remedy potential injustice.

[1NX9]

@Sinuev1

Agree.

To add: Gene therapy makes eugenics obsolete.

[powerone1]

the neo-luddite movement is an true evil to humanity. it is base on fear and hate and has nothing but destruction at it's core.

[drakulva]

What is the text to speech software used in this video?

[0rangePete]

10/10 would rage again.

[TheUnknownPerson1100]

The Luddites must be put in zoos.

[PostHuman2113]

Erm..indeed!

[Parapon3ra]

All nature worshippers, neo-luddites, and technophobes should be put naked, and without any tools or technologies whatsoever, on an island in the middle of nowhere where they can live in harmony with nature, far away from the high tech society they so despise. While some may actually like it and thrive, most would probably soon realise the error of their ways and frantically try to build rafts and boats to get back to civilization...

[MrJohnJamal]

Totally agree, Parapon3era. Hail transhumanism, and anybody who opposes it shall be stripped off their tools and clothing.

[CrazyDragonX]

@Parapon3ra

Couldn't agree more! :)

[Jenfucius]

@Parapon3ra

Alot of nature worshippers do run around naked (esp. if their into wicca paganism). ^_^

I'm into nature but I am also 100% for transhumanism. It would be crazy not too.

[0rangePete]

Ship me off the island, please.

[powerone1]

@Parapon3ra, be sure to put many lions, tigers and bears on that island so that they can truly commune with their fellow animal brothers.

[CrazyHorseInvincible]

"Submission to nature" presupposes that gaia has a will for us to submit to. Please, do share with us what gaia's will is.

[outled]

Gaia's will is that you are the ruler of the world and your doing a fantastic job, we all applaud you for your efforts and hope we can win like you do. Can you fathom for a second that i cant even begin to answer your first question let alone the rest in these comment boxes, youtube 'debates' not that i asked for one, are basically who types for longer, so you win, because i dont wish to carry on the facade that you have any actual interest. I do take with me some of your salient points. ty.

[FIGHTFANNERD3]

CrazyHorseInvincible outled both of you shut up

[outled]

I am a bioluddite i reckon, i fully understand and empathise with transhumanists, my first emotional reactions as an impatient discontent child to the seemingly unfair world around me were to control and manipulate it to my end. I grew out of that childish notion though, and realised life is unimaginably beautiful, and that doing anything was merely an act of fear, fear of death. No machine can ever offer me such contentment. I dont believe in god either.

[CrazyHorseInvincible]

Machines do not offer contentment. Machines are the RESULT of contenment. They're the product of those who understand happiness, who understand the pursuit and who have the audacity to seek it, to believe that they're worthy of it.

[outled]

Machines are made by the fearful, youll never be able to change my mind on that one i'm afraid, i think youll find those who are content lay under a tree and eat the falling fruit. You cant expect anyone to believe that machines are an expression of contentment, its entirely missing the point of existence. I think prehaps in your case i'm talking over your head. have you ever sat for hours on end by yourself in absolute contentment? Not many people can still do that, this is the calm i speak of.

[outled]

Selfworth is not an indicator of happiness, some people think they are gods and are miserable, others see themselves as nothing and lead much more fruitful lives.

But hey i think you said it best, "Machines do not offer contentment" i think we can both agree on that one :) Good luck though on your quest for shininess.

[CrazyHorseInvincible]

Selfworth doesn't guarantee happiness, just as sexual desire does not guarantee an orgasm, but it is a necessary precursor to it. My point about machines can be restated as this: a lever is a machine, but clearly does not offer contentment or anything beyond what it does. But isn't the will to create a lever beautiful in itself?

[outled]

I empathise with what your saying, and i agree in part the trouble is that one mans will to create becomes the status quo for everyone else. I do feel that we can't escape natures balance no matter how ingenious the invention, any progressions to me are illusions of progress.

I can appreciate innovations but they are always tinged with sadness to me as i immediately see where humanity has given up again.

We use a lot of innovations, and most people dont know how they work or care.

[CrazyHorseInvincible]

If nature is "balanced," how, then, could there be evolution? Isn't there a status quo regardless of whether a man creates something or not? If we are the ones who define progress, what makes it an illusion?

[outled]

"if we are the ones who define progress, what makes it an illusion" The fact that we define it makes it second hand in the first place and thus an attainment, its a subjective issue. And yes there is a status quo which is flux, we must only go with that flow and not fight it likes our enemy. The symphony of nature and of our own mortality is more beautiful than anything that could be constructed. Evolution explains this balance. Humans in my view have become cancer on gaia.

[CrazyHorseInvincible]

It is not possible to infect an abstraction like "gaia." It is also not possible to balance something that has no scale and no applicable measurement. "Symphony" is again a description of something human, something unnatural. You can't speak figuratively without anthropomorphizing something you believe ought to be sharply contrasted with humanity. But ultimately the joke is on you. "Nature" itself is a concept that only we can be cognizant of.

[outled]

this is getting rather cyclical, theres no reasoning with either of us as we have our own language to describe our realities, any word i use can be semantically picked apart, it comes down to faith, and i believe that all of nature is sentient and cogniscient and has been drastically underappreciated at the least. i cant make you see that or want to, and neither can you make me not see it. All i ask is that transhumanism doesnt infect me, if that makes me a joke then my humours gone.

[CrazyHorseInvincible]

It comes down to faith, and you believe that nature is sentient and aware. Thank you for exposing the core issue, unsexy as it is: science vs religion. When faced with a diminishing ability to enslave the mind, faith, religious, personal, or otherwise, the old destroyer of reason, rears its ugly head to denounce the mind and its products. I find it very telling that you say we ought to passively accept the status quo and find death beautiful. Your faith even has its own version of original sin.

[CrazyHorseInvincible]

This is, more or less, what I was leading to when I said you anthropomorphized nature. Most people like you don't go so far as to say that nature is self aware, they're always hoving over the brink, but their arguments don't have any impact when asked "who benefits from our extinction." I don't find you a joke, by the way. I find you dangerous. If humanity is a disease, as you say, then what "cure" are you planning on offering us? A chance to experience the beauty of mortality on a wide scale?

[outled]

no i think youll find your the eugenicist, i am not banning or selling anything, thats the point. I am not asking for the extinction of humanity like you transhumanists are, i am asking for the submission back to nature. Nothing we havent done before. So how am i dangerous then? There is nothing dangerous about my stance. I can see you are binary and sequential probably christian, boring me now. You keep fighting the good fight, ill choose not to fight if thats ok with you.

[CrazyHorseInvincible]

I'm atheist, but thanks for giving it what seems, sadly, to be your best. If by eugenicist you mean I want to restrict the reproductive rights of others, you are mistaken. That's the action of someone who thinks that other humans are a burden. I suppose that by saying that humanity itself is a burden, you're better than that. How are you dangerous? If humanity is a cancer to your god, gaia, then the act of existing and being human is evil in your eyes.

[FIGHTFANNERD3]

dangerous you are

[outled]

in what way?

[FIGHTFANNERD3]

bioluddite are fools gods not real

[FIGHTFANNERD3]

god is not real fact

[NikoKun]

Good video. Well said. Although I'm afraid the ignorance of so called "bio-luddites" means they wont listen or understand the message.

[hoboguru]

there is already enough population problems without people selfishly and cowardly wanted to live forever ,its just a nerdy dream for losers

[NikoKun]

The technologies of Transhumanism easily move past such problems. If we achieve this level, over population would no longer be a problem or at least could be dealt with better, neither would sickness or starvation.

And it's not about being selfish or cowardly, not at all! Such technological advancements are meant to make everyone's life better!

Death is a horrible thing, destroying the experiences and knowledge which people gain in life.

Every life deserves to live as long as it wants!

[MrTechpriest]

@hoboguru SO don’t you think 20 years is enough for you to live? I mean otherwise are you not just living a nerdy dream for losers?

[avantibarbari]

Only those who truly hate life would dream of transforming themselves into machines. Human beings improve their condition by becoming wiser, more loving, and creating beautiful things; the creative potential of natural human beings is inexhaustible. The transhumanists are enslaved to other values- speed, strength, invulnerability, etc. By such standards, rocks, trees, and clouds are superior.

[NikoKun]

Ok, but transhuman level technologies would allow for the betterment of all those things. Wisdom and knowledge, emotions, creation of things, etc..

Why would transhumanists be "enslaved" by values such as speed/strength/invulnerability­? That doesn't make any sense at all. Once a transhuman level of technology is obtained, none of those things really matter anymore. We would have them all, and could move on to better more enriching things.

We would no long be limited, and could pursue better!

[lemsip]

@avantibarbari Far better to only live for 70 years on average and have your bodily limitations and to keep your soul, feelings and intuitions than to be a cyborg.

[lemsip]

To have bodily limitations is a good thing and it's far better to have those and a normal life span than it is to lose your soul and your feelings. One good thing about getting older is that you become aware of your bodily limitations and therefore are not compelled to push yourself to the limit. You don't have to follow the herd and stay out all night. You use your bodily needs as an excuse.

[Xenobiologist1]

@lemsip A soul is a construct of the human mind, an illusion. There's no room to presume feelings and emotions would be lost with the transformation, unless one specifically elected to do so. If you accept our "bodily limits," then so be it, but I accept that embracing our evolutionary gift of intelligence to improve ourselves beyond nature's course is not only desirable, but the moral imperative of any evolved intelligence. To do otherwise is to squander it.

[lemsip]

@Xenobiologist1 Where's compassion and empathy with this? If you were to receive a heart transplant you would take on some of the personality of the donor as our core being is in other parts of the body and not just the brain. A mechanical heart would mean no personality with it.

[Xenobiologist1]

@lemsip Not really... heart transplants take place all the time. Oh, and some people already have artificial hearts! Go ask some of them if they feel like emotionless robots. A body does not a compassionate person make, that's all in the mind, and our brains are nothing more than nature's version of a computer.

[thelastunusedname]

A fascinating video and a well expressed point of view. And there is no doubt that the human being can be improved on. But the question is; do we as a species have the collective wisdom to make those improvements? At this point in time I would have to say I believe that we clearly do not. Our science lacks ethics and is driven largely by greed. Maybe in time, once we've learned patience and respect we will have the wisdom to guide our species evolution. learn from natural selection

[MildInconvenience]

@SJamesGray:

I vehemently disagree with the view you have put forward, without technology we would be 'distracted' by the constant struggle to survive and our quality of life would be abysmal.

Technology has consistently improved our quality of life and there is no reason we should stop; applying what we have learned to ourselves is the next logical step.

Humanity would continue to evolve (slowly) even without intervention - why not opt for a faster change that we ourselves can control?

[SJamesGray]

It's already out of control.

[MildInconvenience]

Please explain what you mean by it being "out of control".

Using technology to improve ourselves is a very sensible course of action. The human is far from being the perfect life-form, we have many flaws and weaknesses that could be fixed and improved by technology.

Changing and improving things is a fundamental trait of our species; as such, opposing technological progress as Luddites do could even be said to be anathema to human nature.

[SJamesGray]

words words

empty of themselves

[MildInconvenience]

Words facilitate the transfer of information and are critical to the prosperity of our species, do not dismiss them so easily as they are a far better tool for settling disputes than brute-force violence.

True it is possible to 'mince words', a technique most often attributed to politicians, however I don't think that's the case here.

Admittedly though a youtube comments page is not an ideal place for a debate and so we may have no choice but to agree to disagree on this matter.

[thoughtwaretv]

@MildInconvenience:

Well said! I definitely agree with your line of thought and admire your ability to express your ideas so coherently.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with the world. I'd love for your to enjoy Thoughtware (dot) TV.

[sisyphusorianus9787]

SJamesGray

your FACE is lies...!

buuurned

[SJamesGray]

Very true sir!

I have no clue what I look like w/o this body.

[funkalunatic]

This video is mostly straw man with a dash of false dichotomy.

[n4979338]

I think this time now is a point of punctuated equilibrium (like when grains of sand gradually fall into a pile and then suddenly the sandmound landslides or like when the cell first evolved on Earth).

[thoughtwaretv]

@n4979338

I think so as well. Over time we are seeing an accelerated rate of evolution (and here I'm not just talking about biological evolution). It seems orders of magnitude greater than before. Technology applied intelligently are playing a central role.

I feel this will likely lead to the equivalent of a Technological Cambrian Explosion. A wild diversity in intelligent systems, with different natures, but all descendants (and perhaps considering themselves part) of the human species.

[n4979338]

There are so many things which can go wrong in the current human body. We are all severally and collectively sitting on a knife edge all the time. Anyone who can't think of a few defects in their own design they might like redressed is simply not being honest with themselves. On with the information science revolution!

[n4979338]

I am a strong supporter of transhumanism. Each individual's right to improving their own physical bodies must be protected.

[thoughtwaretv]

@n4979338:

We really need to advocate all sentient life's freedom for evolutionary self-determination, through the ethical implementation of enhancement technologies powered by scientific discovery.

[n4979338]

I think, we have already been living in the transhumanist era for several thousand years. Humanity and humanity's predecessors have always been a transformitist. Right back to beginning of this universe which we have always been a part of. The sun is rising on a critical point in the history of Earth. It's incredible.

[thoughtwaretv]

@n4979338

I share your enthusiasm! : )

[GoodJokeGoneBad]

lol will you still thumb me down after you've watch the video (or at least look at the title of the video) featured on my channel?

[n4979338]

I think, we have already been living in the transhumanist era for several thousand years. Humanity and humanity's predecessors have always been a transformitist. Right back to beginning of this universe which we have always been a part of. The sun is rising on a critical point in the history of Earth. It's incredible.

[GoodJokeGoneBad]

Biological slavery? You think GM babies are NOT biological slavery? It's not about fear and sloth... It's more about reasoning and respect. GM crops, for example, damage the environment. It's a fact, not ignorance. The only thing overshadowing that fact is the thrive to feed the third world. I don't think that's a decent way of doing so anyway. So... I came here not to tell you how you should live your life... But rather to say that the human genome should be left alone!

[thoughtwaretv]

Dear GoodJokeGoneBad

You said:

"I came here not to tell you how you should live your life... But rather to say that the human genome should be left alone!"

Sorry, you lose either way. Unless we implement transhuman technology, the genome will continue adapt and change. It is called evolution under natural selection.

[thoughtwaretv]

@GoodJokeGoneBad:

1. We could use transhuman technology to keep humanity as it is, but you'd probably oppose that since we would need to mess with the genome to do that.

2. We could simply not do anything and let nature run its course, but then, the genome would certainly continue to change, as it has for billions of years.

3. You could live your life as you want, suffer aging, and die confidently that your own genome didn't change (or at least not much).

(continued)

[thoughtwaretv]

@GoodJokeGoneBad (continued)

4. Or you could realize change will continue to happen, that there is no such thing as a static genome in evolution and that unless humanity decides to consciously evolve, then natural selection will run its course, and only a handful of individuals will evolve. If it were at all possible to allow the evolutionary process not to be impacted by us, then our species's evolution would be horribly slow, full of trials and errors and only a few would benefit.

[thoughtwaretv]

What I'm saying is, you can't stop change. You could conceivably use transhuman technology to stop the genome from changing too much to try to achieve your goal, but then you'd be fiddling with the genome and transhuman technologies! If we're going to mess with the genome, we might as well make it better and fix aging related diseases while we're at it.

[GoodJokeGoneBad]

anything other than that that is not responsible of suffering should be kept! motherhood, love, sex.. why do you want to remove that? i'll oppose the conservation of biological traditions till i die! my luddism would be justified in this case because i wouldn't be preventing something that people dislike.. i would be preventing the corruption of something that i love and would die to protect! we draw the line here!!!!!

[thoughtwaretv]

@GoodJokeGoneBad

Motherhood, love or sex. I didn't say we want them gone. Transhumanisms is about our collective and individual evolutionary progression into post-human entities, not about establishing a single evolutionary pathway.

[thoughtwaretv]

@GoodJokeGoneBad (continued)

Billions of years ago, groups of single-celled organisms decided to group together and form massive collectives, some eventually led to higher levels of intelligence and consciousness. Other organisms evolved down a very different path. In all the evolutionary path, some genetic "traditions" were successful and some were not. Some were improvised, replaced, others improved, some stayed the same, and others simply did not survive. We're not advocating a single path.

[thoughtwaretv]

@GoodJokeGoneBad

We're not advocating a single evolutionary pathway. Intelligence has reached a point where random evolution is no longer obligatory, we could consciously evolve if we choose to. While some might consider being "asexual" as a positive evolutionary adaptation, other transhumanists might think such an idea could is completely ridiculous and disadvantageous. We're not telling you how to evolve, or that you have to. We're just saying, soon you will be able to choose for yourself.

[GoodJokeGoneBad]

I came across a Transhumanist website and I changed my attitude towards it, but i'm still not entirely convinced... ever heard of the abolitionist society? they advocate the use of biotech to remove involuntary suffering and i almost agreed with them until they started talking about posthumans being asexual, resistant to space travel.. what the hell? i understand that getting rid of disease and suffering is a moral imperative, but anything other than that that is not...

[thoughtwaretv]

@GoodJokeGoneBad

I see what you're saying. Please do understand Transhumanism is a broad term.

I didn't say anything about posthumans being aseuxal, although I'm not surprised some schools of transhumanist thought have pondered such ideas. When we're talking about future species, who knows what they'll be like. Surely, billions of years ago our predecessors (bacteria) wouldn't have had any clue as to how their descendants (us) would be like, much less how we would reproduce.

[GoodJokeGoneBad]

I'm just talking about what you would do in the test tubes. I agree with individual rights. But what about the rights of those you create? That would be the next question.. I certainly don't agree with making humans asexual, independent from mothers, etc.. just for the sake of making them more "efficient" or "powerful". I agree with removing disease and suffering now! I SURRENDER TO YOU! (i'll keep my old videos as a history of my evolving thought though) but PLEASE DONT HAMMER ME DOWN!!!!!!!!!

[SailorBarsoom]

Works for me. Death is not healthy.

[thoughtwaretv]

@SailorBarsoom

Agreed :)

[Stirner123]

"False choice in spectacular abundance, a choice which lies in the juxtaposition of competing and complementary spectacles and also in the juxtaposition of roles (signified and carried by things) which are at once exclusive and overlapping, develops into a struggle of vaporous qualities meant to stimulate loyalty to quantitative triviality." - Guy Debord, Society of The Spectacle

[thoughtwaretv]

Have you been to Thoughtware (dot) TV?

We collect only the best videos and news on Human Progress, ranging from topics such as Transhumanism, Artificial General Intelligence, Augmented Reality, Virtual Reality, Robotics, Nanotechnology, Life Extension, Biotechnology, Genetics, Ethics and many other fields of Social, Scientific and Technological interest.

[N10me]

Good to know:)

[thoughtwaretv]

Thanks for sharing :)

Using multimedia to spread h+ memes will help educate many that would've otherwise been ignorant to technological progress and might've fallen victim to bio-luddism.

[GoodJokeGoneBad]

Bio-luddism is just a loose term made up by your people to describe your opponents... Environmentalism is the most accurate word to describe a group of intellectuals who oppose certain technologies that could potentially harm the environment or turn us into animate bodies that are no different from the dead (have no emotional variety, just for the sake or pursuing pleasure). Yes sir, we should educate people; No sir, we shouldn't engineer the human genome.

[thoughtwaretv]

@GoodJokeGoneBad

How is Environmentalism an accurate term for someone opposing transhuman technologies? I've known environmentalists that do favor progressive technologies that can limit or reverse damage to the environment. The term doesn't fit for those opposing transhumanism.

Bio-luddism seems to accurately describe those who oppose transhuman technological progress, believing humanity has somehow reached the pinnacle of existence and can't or shouldn't evolve further.

[trend2transhumanism]

Excellent!

[Keylimedelight]

need moar.

[AmbientDreamer]

Great!