Grandmaster Lawrence Day (Black Dragon Cane Form)

[UniversalQi]

That's actually really bad and he looks like he is making it up as he goes. He says he will start slow and then do it fast, but he never repeats it. He uses one Karate landing inapropriately with his footwork, and numerous Tai Chi knock-off stances. No cane technique ever comes down with the crook on the top of the head because that's a good way to lose the cane. And no kata on the planet is that long with that many moves, especially a cane kata. He's fighting off his own imaginary army there...

[oshiro1970]

It was on the net and he had a whole history to the Silent Dragon kung fu he taught, it was such a kick in the gut that some one who we treated good and was looking forward to things to come just vanished and then I see all this crap on the net. I guess you met him after he moved to Fl. As far as the video he moves just like he does on the videos I have him at our dojo by in 1990. I don't mean to be harsh but what he did was wrong and he should contact Mr. Morgan and fix this.

[oshiro1970]

I have known Mr. Day since about 1990 he was the sinfu of my sensei and he came to our School Silent Dragon he said alot of things we gave him a school jacket he then went to florida and stoled the name Silent Dragon and used it with out permission. And fyi he moved the same as he does in this video 20 yrs ago. I am sorry to say he is not a very honorable man if he was he would get into contect with Greg Morgan and fix what he did and explain himself. I mean no disrepect but this is the truth.

[skssystems]

@oshiro1970 I have known Dr. Day since 1993 and this is the first time I have heard of The Silent Dragon School. If he used it back then he is definitely not using it now.

[BillyCarri]

Phil. I don't know you and so I'll start with respect. Master Day has not only been a teacher to me but is also a friend. And I can say with zero hesitation that compared to some videos on youtube his form looked sloppy here. Agreed. But understand he has athritis so bad he can hardly walk. He is frail and half the man he was when he was younger. Yet his mind works fine and THAT is where the knowledge is. Believe me when I say he has my full respect and love. Try not to be so judging k

[PhilElmoreDotCom]

Day's cane work is actually pretty sloppy for someone who claims to be a "grandmaster." It's an elaborate form, but not terribly impressive in its execution.

[skssystems]

@PhilElmoreDotCom This is "clip" of the breakdown of the form. You should see the whole thing in person. There is a Black Dragon Fighting Society event coming up in March 2011, I believe. You should totally come and party with with them. It's free! Not to mention you could do some interviews and give them all pointers on their technique.

What do you think?

[PhilElmoreDotCom]

@skssystems: If he can't make the form look precise while breaking it down slowly, how would he have any hope of making it less sloppy while executing it at speed?

[skssystems]

@PhilElmoreDotCom The best way to prove it to you is in person. Nothing resolves a debate better than having all the facts in the equation. There is no better way to have all the facts than to see it first hand. I would think a real critic would want to have all the facts and not just be assuming. It looks bad on a person posing as a true critic to not have all the facts.

[PhilElmoreDotCom]

@skssystems: What "facts" are missing, exactly? I said his cane form looks sloppy because it does. If you're arguing that it looks a lot better when he's not being videotaped, this doesn't change the fact that it looks sloppy here.

[skssystems]

@PhilElmoreDotCom Wow. The fact that you are not seeing that facts are missing kind of implies to me that you might not actually investigate things well. That is scary. It also implies that you may not be all that qualified to investigate things, and I don't want to see people saying that Phil Elmore isn't qualified to judge anything because he never really investigates things.

[skssystems]

@PhilElmoreDotCom

I am no investigator/critic, but I could see a few things a real investigator/critic might want look at.

1. Have you seen the whole video?

(This helps so that things are accurate and not being taken out of context.)

2. Have you seen it in person?

(This also helps to get the true picture)

3. Do you know anything about cane fighting?

(This help when critiquing a cane form on motion)

4. Do you have any past crane form experience?

(Also helps when critiquing a cane form)

[skssystems]

@PhilElmoreDotCom  That is why I am so concerned about your reputation Phil. If people thought you didn't have all the fact on a subject they might not think of your opinion as being... Well... Worth anything. I personal, would not like people to see Phil Elmore as a fraud or poser.

[PhilElmoreDotCom]

@skssystems: Would you address the question, please? Is your argument that A) Day's cane form doesn't look sloppy even though it does; B) Day's cane form looks sloppy here but not in person; or C) Day's Cane form only looks sloppy if one lacks certain unspecified "facts" ...?

[skssystems]

@PhilElmoreDotCom You have a lot of videos about Martial Arts where you are critiquing different styles and methods, not to mention weapons and firearms. Those are very dangerous things Phil. I don't think I would feel safe trusting any of your opinions on these subjects if I knew that you didn't investigate everything you critiqued on throughly. Do you really do investigation on these subjects Phil? I hope so, otherwise people could get hurt or even killed if they took advice from Phil Elmore.

[PhilElmoreDotCom]

@skssystems: So your response is simply to try to divert attention from the topic in question? Either Day's cane form looks sloppy in your video or it does not. Why are you trying so hard to avoid that admission? And if you do admit, what do you have to say about it?

[skssystems]

@PhilElmoreDotCom I didn't want to point this out but, if anyone is avoiding anything I think it you Phil. You said the form looked sloppy. That is a statement, not a question. You didn't ask me first, I asked you a question first. My first question to you was simple.

"Why don't you go down to the next BDFS meeting and do your critiquing in person?" Then you tell them all exactly what you think of them one way or the other. So my question is this one that should be answered first.

[PhilElmoreDotCom]

@skssystems: Your question was an attempt to deflect criticism -- something very common among these grade-inflated "martial artists" of the Black Dragon Fighting Society, who seem to promote each other a few dans whenever they get within twenty feet of each other. The fact is that the form looks sloppy as he demonstrates it in this clip. The fact that you have no defense for this and have to talk circles around it, hurling silly accusations along the way, speaks volumes about you... and him.

[Dizzyazn92]

@PhilElmoreDotCom

Because he is old, and has Arthritis...

It's harder for people with arthritis to do things slowly than fast.

You really need to get off your large high horse, and respect others..

[TheShadowlin]

this looks suspiciously similar to the Shaolin Dharmo Cane.

[DanBowenTV]

NO comments yet? this clip is very cool, I have been working on cane forms and techniques and this adds so much to my repertoire.