When they were younger, so much younger than today,
They always needed Pete's help in every way.
And now these days are back, they're not so self assured,
So now they find they've changed their minds and opened up the doors. Are you gonna help them there falling down? Pete are you gonna turn the career around? Won't you please, pleeeeeeeeeease help pete?
Oh I found the ringo drumming, not as solid as andy white, but very good, right around 144. They could have used Ringo's drummer in the release if they wanted.
@bonerici Actually the first UK release WAS Ringo's take. The session drummer played it exactly the same way Ringo had played it the week before. Except for the tambourine, the two are very hard to tell apart.
Got out the metronome, correct me if I'm wrong but Pete starts out around 131 bpm then as the song goes on he's like the mule that sees his stall and gradually speeds up until he's at around 136 bpm at the end. Several times in the song, it seems like he's a bull rider trying to shake the singers off his back. By comparison Ringo is a metronome, 146 bpm plus or minus 0.5 bpm.
@ahfaxthis Since most drummers are so bad at it, I'd say pretty hard. The kid next door has been practicing for four years and still sounds like a wind-up toy, only louder (trust me). He could practice for the rest of his life and still not have any "feel." Amazingly, he's in a band. He'd be replaced in a heartbeat if his band could find someone better. Apparently they can't, even though we're in an area with over a million people. The good ones are that rare.
Ringo is massively under-rated as a drummer . You listen to ANY pro backing track of a Beatle recording . The guitar work'll sound fine ,..the tempo will be spot
on , the backing vocals will be A1 . The only weak point is,...( guess what ! ! ) ???. Those session guys just can't get the drums right .That Ringo " back beat " is probably musically incorrect ,..but it is an intrinsic and necessary part of the Beatles Sound .John , Paul , and George were all too aware of this ! !
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What take was this, the first tryout to get the feel of it? How many other takes where attempted that we haven't heard? The Beatles got the point of fame and fortune with Pete Best no problem. I tend to believe the argument that Pete Best was a bit moody and shy, and it was this fact that persuaded Brian Epstein to drop him, hence the always smiling and jockular Ringo Starr elbowing his way in.Ringo was the total opposite of Pete in both looks and manner.
Yes, Pete wasn't a good drummer, but they should have done something for him--maybe plug his band in one of their radio or TV appearances, or give him a small part in "A Hard day's Night."
What sunk Pete was his time. You can hear him speeding up and slowing down in this track and the groove suffers. The first job of a drummer is to keep steady time and to create patterns that groove. Peter falls apart on the bridge. Martin worked with professional studio drummers whose could deliver this. He knew he would not get a hit from the Beatles without this.
The accurate John Lennon quote says this: "Pete Best was a drummer; Ringo Starr is a Beatle." (Beatles Monthly Book #249, January 1997, page 5) -- Not "good" or "great" or "better" -- just "a drummer."
This is a pretty weak take by everyone in my opinion. The vocals aren't as strong as the actual hit. Sounds like a first take. But we never will know. I wonder how many chances they actually gave him before they dumped him. I don't know. Mona Best wanted too much too. Eppy hated her. Martin said they need a drummer. I think it was all orchestrated by Eppy.
@zoltar5282 actually it was more george's doing. he really pushed for ringo. they all wanted him, but when martin said that they should use a studio drummer for 'love me do'. they took that as a sign to axe pete and bring in ringo.
Kind of plodding. Well, worse than that. Did Best decide to play it like that? Sounds like he'd never heard the song before or thought about it if he had. Like be, in high school, playing on downers. No wonder the others yelled at me as the songs ground down to a halt . . .
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The real reason Pete was dropped was because his Mother had a club in her basement, and the boys would play there at lunch time. John & Paul decided to dump Pete because Pete's Mom was trying to horn in on their popularity and tried to be the band's manager.. So they dropped Pete like a hot potato and they just said that he wasn't that good a drummer so as to avoid a messy breakup.Pete's Mom was very ambitious and may have tried to strongarm John & Paul to let him play in their band.
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Actually, the common version of "Love me Do" was recorded with drummer Andy White, not Ringo. " Andrew "Andy" White (born 1930) is a Scottish drummer, best known for replacing Ringo Starr on drums on The Beatles' first single, "Love Me Do" - Wikipedia
See Pete Best on an early cavern video here on youtube, he's not interested, he even stops playing. "Love Me Do" is no song to judge any musician on , though, because it's crap. It's just a wailing dead thing, can't think why anybody gave tuppence for it, think it was 1s/6d or something. Pete has only his own lack of foresight to blame, he quite obviously thought The Beatles were going nowhere, he was just there for notice from the girls and he got masses of that.
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@Doug5007 there is no way of knowing when the tempo changes in this recording ,during the harmonica solo, that this is not the way it was meant to be played during the session. It sounds more like a tempo change cause it stays consistent for those bars , rather than he messed up. It actually makes it sound different & like an alternate take.
All the other Beatles went on record about the dismissal of Best. McCartney said: "It was a strictly professional decision. If he wasn't up to the mark... then there was no other choice". He also pronounced Best to be "a bit limited". Harrison said that "Pete kept being sick and not showing up for gigs" and admitted, "I was quite responsible for stirring things up. I conspired to get Ringo in for good; I talked to Paul and John until they came round to the idea
@gdosic yeah sounds like the bitter harrison didnt he realise he was in the ringo camp and couldve been replaced by any 1 other.....rip your twisted sub vocal point of view and voice george!
The accurate John Lennon quote says this: "Pete Best was a drummer; Ringo Starr is a Beatle." (Beatles Monthly Book #249, January 1997, page 5) -- Not "good" or "great" or "better" -- just "a drummer."
My Pal "Phil "Phibber" Munchausen says Pete was sacked because he had no head for heights,the guys knew the day would come when they'd have to play on the roof of Apple buildings,Pete would have gone dizzy and fallen off........
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Now I AM GLAD to say I'm not this guy, been so close to be one of The Beatles, rich glomour women and suddenly nothing, working graveyard and god knows what else to make ends meet, damn now that is BAD LUCK!
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Someone on here is claiming that Pete Best didn't play drums on the Pete Best All-Stars "I'm Gonna Knock on Your Door." How does this person know that? And if Best isn't the drummer, who is?
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Yes, now that you mention it, I think the author was joking actually. I think his name was Mallory Curley. I recall Curley saying that (to his credit) Best has never apologized for his drumming on Love Me Do. I think it is interesting and that Best has been given a bum rap, although Ringo is still a better drummer.
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I recall reading somewhere that Paul McCartney overdubbed drumming on the Anthology 1 version of Love Me Do, so that people would think Pete Best was a terrible drummer. Has anyone else ever heard about this?
@Upsiditus Ask yourself what would have happened if that were true. Answer: lawsuit. Technical experts can easily determine if a record has been overdubbed. Their court testimony would have guaranteed a huge settlement for Pete. So, it didn't happen.
More isn't better. It's often worse. Ringo could do more in a heartbeat ("I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and Cry Over You" Live at the BBC). He just knew better.
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has anyone heard the decca sessions?pete was a far better drummer than ringo.everyone seems to forget when ringo was brought in george martin didnt like his drumming either;it seems to me that it was personality conflicts as according to cynthia lennon john told her pete was a far better drummer but ringo was easier to get along with.timing problems on one given day in 1962 proves nothing to a musicians ability.but as the next 8 years proved the other 3 didnt need a very accomplished drummer.
its not only his musical ability but he just wasnt very close with the rest of them. He would alienate himself from the group and being isolated all the time just made him grow further and further apart. he wouldnt wear the matching clothes or adopt the bowl hair cut and he wouldnt take the drugs that the rest of them were. he was just never meant to be a beatle
He drags the tempo in the mid 8 badly.... Sorry, Pete. You are #1 on my list of guys who handle negative life events well however. Anyone else would have topped themselves for sure in that situation.
@MAGICO240 Well to be fair it's a poor recording..some due to age I'm sure. However you cannot say the guitars or singing were "horrible" on this take as shortly after that they rerecorded it to the version you know and love. You CAN say that the drums were not solid and the weak link in the group. I think Pete is a great person but based on THIS recording I would have replaced him too. Also let's not forget that ultimately Ringo didn't play on this track either.. it was a session musician.
Finally I can say I drum as good as a Beatle drummer. I don't even own a single drum! Just kidding. But ringo is better. The 5th best drummer by Rolling Stone
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Pete looked more mature and more handsome than the others--Ringo would come in and 'fit in' a little better. Pete had the girls screaming and took up the attention from the others.
My God, that was horrible... not just Pete's drumming, but all of them...
Well, this was one of their earliest recordings of the song, so I can't be too harsh on them... still, this sounds like something my friends and I could have made xD
& who says that Pete was the best-looking..? For me, it'll always be Paul or John ♥
pete best was very popular with the early year girl fans, and he was very good looking, but the truth is he just wasnt good enough, paul george and john were brilliant playing with a beginner. if he played like ringo did trust me he wouldnt have left. the other three were also insanely popular, no reason for those three to be jealous of anyone. he simply wasnt good enough to play with those three.
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Yeh ....by the way ...listin to pauls shocking lead vocal ....and judge him the same way ...just nerves .....pete could have been the live drummer and a studio guy take up the slack till he got the hang of recordings -as was the custom then .. still , whats done is done.
Yes, this recording certainly proves why George Martin didn't think he was good enough. I don't think he was quite as bad as this recording implies though - the Hamburg recordings are OK. But this is truly terrible drumming.
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It's funny that some people think just because they play an instrument, they have the final say on what good music is. They don't. Personal opinion comes into it. It's like a chef saying they know what tastes good. If you go to a restaurant and have a bad meal,it's bad, no matter how long the chef who cooked it has been cooking. Of course, in the culinary world, not anyone can be a chef, but anyone who thinks they can play self proclaims them-self as a musician!
The drummming just doesnt gel with the song. It's a song that doesnt get any simpler and he just complicates and ruins it. If this is an indication then he wouldnt have any place being a Beatle. They were a big band in Liverpool so he must have been something right. I just cant hear it here....
This is ok but I like the one they release later. The harmonica part is simpler and the drumming is a little stiff. The vocals were not as flowing. This video there ability to improve demonstrating real talent.
I don't know why there is controversy as to why best was sacked. And if, after playing night after night in Germany, this is the best he can muster, then out he goes. It is not just this track. He plays shit on every track he plays on. He's just not good enough. It's as simple as that.
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@tigranvartanovitch The reason their is controversy is simple... if Best was as terrible as you claim they'd have been no success in hamburg. none in Liverpool and no Brian Epstein being "struck by the bands atomic beat". The fact is if Best was crap, the Beatles would have been known as "the group with the shit drummer" and the laughing stock of the club scene. They were not. Best was a decent drummer. If he wasn't people certainly wouldn't be talking about him all these years on!
@FabFM You are clearly not a musician. You can use what you think is reason all you want. I go by what I hear. Nothing about good looks. Nothing about "not being a Beatle." He could not play to a professional standard. People are talking about him now because people love a mystery. And if one is not a musician, it is a mystery as to why he was kicked out. However, if one is a musician, it is patently obvious. "Atomic beat" was was a term thought up by the editor of "Merseybeat," not Epstein.
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@tigranvartanovitch I'm "clearly not a musician?" don't assume. I go by what I hear too, just because I disagree with you doesn't make me wrong. Again look at the FACTS - Best was a drummer for over 2 years. No one's talking about looks here, this is nearly 50 years further down the track, Best can no longer get by on his looks alone. And no, we don't love a mystery, we are bemused as why someone who some claim was not good enough and a shit drummer lasted 2 years before anyone noticed!
@FabFM You are not a musician, because you claimed his playing on Besame Mucho is an example of excellence, and that his playing on Love Me Do was unfinished. LOL. Books and films where Best was consultant have implied that the others kicked him out because Best's looks made him a favourite with the fans. He lasted two years because the whole band was crap. But the other three got better with experience. Best did not, so he got the boot. If you were a musician, you would know this.
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@tigranvartanovitch Yeah I did claim his drumming was good on Besame Mucho and it is regardless of what you think. The whole band was crap eh? So they got all those hundreds of gigs because they were crap then? LOL LOL LOL You're talking out your arse! You know nothing about music and are just interested in slagging off Best to make yourself feel better, because you are an unknown musician and want the opportunity to act like you are the big know all. You're not, and that is painfully obvious!
@FabFM When they first started out the Beatles were crap. All inexperienced bands are. Again, if you were a musician you would know this. Another thing you ought to know is that you can always tell who is losing an argument, because they get abusive to the other party. If I wanted to castigate someone to make myself feel better, I would slag off someone who has more substance than Best - like Ringo. I'm afraid I don't have a bad word to say about Ringo - sorry to disappoint you.
@FabFM But, hey, FabFm! Don't keep it a secret. Suppose YOU tell US the real reason why the Beatles sacked Best. Was it because of his good looks? Was it because he didn't comb his hair forward? Was it because they couldn't find a Beatle suit his size? Was it because he was such a good muso that he showed up the other three? Was it because a classical oboist like George Martin or a professional drummer like Tony Meehan were trying to make themselves feel better, too? Do tell us, FabFm.
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@tigranvartanovitch I don't really give a crap WHY best was fired, it's no concern of mine, the only people who should have been concerned are those that did it and Best himself. Oh and George Martin never wanted Best fired, he just said he would prefer a studio drummer (Martin was not a rock n roll producer pre-Beatles, he was used to big bands) and actually apologized to Best later on, because he never wanted him kicked out.
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@tigranvartanovitch Best didn't join the Beatles when they were "first starting out", John, Paul and George had been playing in bands together since 58. Best came into the picture in mid-60. I didn't get abusive to you. Me telling you just because you think you play an instrument gives you the right to say "i know more, my opinions more valid that most the world" is not abuse, it's pointing out you have an ego, and I won't let you tell me that your opnions are fact. They ain't. Get over it!
@FabFM Let's make a deal, FabFM. You tell us the real reason why Best was kicked out. And I will tell you the label that my latest release is on. You first.
@FabFM "Oh and George Martin never wanted Best fired, he just said he would prefer a studio drummer"
LOL. Yeah. That's what he told Mona.
"I don't pretend to know things I don't."
LOL You pretend to know good drumming when you hear it.
You will have to forgive me for not giving you the name of a record label. It will save you the trouble of calling me a liar, and it will also give you an opportunity to prove your claim that you don't pretend to know things you don't.
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@tigranvartanovitch "That's what he told Mona." That's what he still says NOW. He apologized to Best in recent years!
"You pretend to know good drumming". No pretence. I just like good drumming by the BEST!
Yeah, I knew there was no record label. I also already know I don't pretend to know things I don't. Please collect your award for most pointless reply.
@FabFM "Yeah, I knew there was no record label. I also already know I don't pretend to know things I don't."
LOL Now you're contradicting yourself. I won't bother mentioning a record company. Your sort then say liar. The Beatles, George Martin are being diplomatic. You can't accept this, any more than Best could. He says himself that Epstein told him that the boys and George Martin had said he wasn't good enough. You like FACTS. There they are. Suck 'em in and cope, buddy.
@FabFm I really don't see what your problem is. If you look at the history of bands who were on the verge of their big break, it is not unusual to be told by the record company to get rid of deadwood. The band kicks a member out, gets in a professional, and they never look back. If you were a musician, you would know this.
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@tigranvartanovitch I have no problem, you do. You want to be able to say it's a fact Best was a shit drummer... it's not... YOU may think he is, but that's not a fact. Others opinions and views count as much as yours, regardless of whether you are a musician or not. And whether or not you can play does not give you greater inside knowledge to the lives of famous people than the rest of us.
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@tigranvartanovitch No i'm not contradicting myself, I just know you're full of crap. My "sort" say liar (yeah, the sort who have common sense would, something your sort lacks).
And Again your wrong, The Beatles are not being diplomatic (indeed many interviews with the Beatles were very harsh on Best... another claim of yours proven WRONG. You really should at least know what your talking about before you talk. Here's a tip: don't PRETEND you know something. Keep quiet if you know sod all!
@FabFM Thank you for your tip, FabFm. You will be delighted to know that I am following it to the letter. I do know what I am talking about. Trying to change the subject by castigating me is a sign of a lost argument. If one is a musician, one can tell who is not a musician by what they say. You are not a musician. I reiterate that Best himself said that Eppy told him the boys and George Martin had said that his drumming was not up to required standard. Case closed.
@tigranvartanovitch Also your argument that I refuse to name a record label is because I am not a musician is puerile. Any fool can rattle off a name. It proves nothing. You would just say "liar" because you are a stone cold loser. As such you surround yourself with other losers, bullshitters and crapmagnets. A symptom of being a loser is that when confronted with someone who has achieved something tangible, your reaction is disbelief. That is how I know you are a loser. Case closed.
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@tigranvartanovitch nah i'm not a stone cold loser, people who are losers are the ones who claim their views and opinions are fact. That's you. Keep trying to "close" the cases... it won't make any difference, you won't "win". See... you're trying so hard to be the "winner", but you won't win, so it's you who is the loser. You'll never be the "winner", you'll never be able to say "i'm right, your not" and have the "case closed". Trying to "win" something you never can makes you a forever loser!
@FabFM You do know I am a real musician. That is why you spend so much time on me. You know I am dangerous. But deep down you really do know that he wasn't good enough, don't you? The Beatles were not cruel to him. They had given him two years to improve. He hadn't, so they had to let him go. I had read various reasons over the years why he was sacked. Then I heard the Anthology Vol 1. To anyone who has a musical ear it is obvious why he got the boot. Get over it.
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@tigranvartanovitch You wish you were a real musician, that's for sure. Dangerous? To the general public maybe. Deep down I know this Pete Best was great and the reason you spend so much time on him is because you wish you were. The claim the Beatles were not cruel to him is ridiculous, and John and Paul both admitted this themselves years later. Add the fact Best was sacked on the eve of their mega stardom, shows any "period to improve" is (again) made up horse shit from the king of crap - you!
@FabFM "His drumming on the other hand was not good. At the end of the test I took Brian to one side and said: 'I don't know what you're going to do with the group as such but this drumming isn't good enough for what I want. It isn't regular enough. It doesn't give the right kind of sound. If we do make a record, I'd much prefer to have my own drummer, which won't make any difference to you because no one will know who's on the record anyway.'...
@FabFM ..."What I didn't know at the time is that the group already wanted Pete Best out and Ringo Starr in, and my remarks were something of a last straw." Sir George Martin - "All You Need Is Ears"
Well, that's a load of horseshit. As soon as Sir George heard the Decca recordings, it would have gone like this:
Martin. You'll need a better drummer.
Epstein. That's what the other record companies said. The matter is in hand.
@FabFM I will convince you that I know what I am talking about. The thought has crossed my mind that you are a wind-up merchant playing advocatus diaboli. If you are a sensible person, you will accept that I know what I am talking about. If you are living in cloud-cuckoo land, you will continue to behave like a dick. Tell us who plays drums on PB4's "I'm Going to Knock on Your Door." Is is Bobby Graham? Tony Meehan? I don't know who it is. But I thought you might. QED
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@tigranvartanovitch "If you are a sensible person, you will accept that I know what I am talking about"
No, I would be a fool to do that. Accept what someone else tells me to think. No. Sorry. But keep trying to "win", you're still going to loose, because you won't be able to tell me what I should believe, think or feel. Also, telling me i'm a dick has no affect. I'm not the one trying to boost my ego by forcing a view as fact on someone, so I know who is the dick out of us two, it's not me!
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@tigranvartanovitch All the "other record companies" didn't want the entire group, there was no "sack the drummer and your hired" from any of the other labels. Lets also not forget Stu Sudcliffe couldn't play bass at all, yet the Beatles never sacked him, even when it meant they lost a gig. So even if Best was crap (which I don't believe to be the case) they didn't extend that same courtesy to him.
@FabFM No. Don't snide out of it. Who played drums on "I'm Going to Knock on Your Door"? Let's see what you really know about facts, and forcing things down people's throats. Who was it, FabFM?
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@tigranvartanovitch I'm not sniding out of anything and neither am I forcing anything down anyones throat. I can honestly state that from the outset I said others had the right to their own opinion, you can't!
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@tigranvartanovitch And if you've got any proof Best didn't drum on any of his tracks, I'd be more than happy to see it. Not aware of it myself to be fair. Of course, you'd have to prove he didn't drum on every track he ever recorded, not just one or two, because it's not uncommon for other drummers to drum on the odd track, but we're not talking about that, we're talking about Pete's drumming, and it certainly is him on most of the PB4 cuts and the Sheridan sessions.
@FabFM You are right on only one thing: that I regard my observations to be superior to yours. And they are. You say yourself: "and it certainly is him [sic] on most of the PB4 cuts..." so you imply that he does not play on some. Which tracks are these, FabFM? You have also not answered the question as to who is the drummer on "...Knock on Your Door." If it is any help to you, the studios keep a log of who played what. It should be easy for you to find out.
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@tigranvartanovitch No you're observations are not superior to mine, no matter how you think they might be, delude yourself all you want if it makes you feel a "winner", but as pointed out previously, the reality is your a forever loser!
Hey, why don't you post a link to this information of the log. I have no idea if Best played on all the PB4 tracks or not, and if your trying to claim he didn't, then show us your source!
@FabFM Then what you are saying is that I, who have never strapped on skates, can judge the Olympic ice skating just as well as an expert judge, because my opinion is just as good as theirs. That's tosh! You are saying that you, who have no musical ear, can judge a drummer just as well as a musician. That's delusion. You have failed to tell us why Best was thrown out. You have failed to tell us which PB4 tracks he does not play on. Put up or shut up, FabFm!
@FabFM The notion that Best was a shit drummer was confirmed by Sir George Martin, Tony Meehan, John Lennon. and a host of other musicians. That makes this notion the status quo. You want to challenge the status quo, then the onus is on you to come up with some concrete evidence. It is not for me to go on a bummel through the uneducated mind of some tone-deaf loser who comes direct from the Hall of the Mountain King.
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@tigranvartanovitch And there are a lot of witness that he was a good drummer: Chris Curtis from The Searchers and other band-members in Liverpool, the other technician in Parlophone, the crowd in Liverpool and Hamburg... Always someone is saying why he wasn't popular if he was a good drummer... For example Johnny Hutchinson of The Big Three was very good, but were they popular outside Liverpool and Hamburg..? No, they weren't, although they should have been.
@tauroscorp We can't ask Chris Curtis: he's dead. Who is the other technician at EMI? One of them was working with Best, and Best wasn't responding. Liverpool musicians know Best and are being diplomatic. A lot of people have no musical ear, and couldn't tell if the drummer were Pete Best, Ed Cassidy or a chimpanzee. One of them gave George Harrison a Glasgow kiss over Pete Best. As well as the EMI, Polydor & Decca recordings, there are radio shows Best played on. He just wasn't good enough.
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@tigranvartanovitch Yeah that's exactly what i'm saying you dummy. If ice skating was your favorite sport, of course you could. People watch football and know whether it's a shit match or not, they don't have to score a winning goal at wembley to know a good match from a bad match. The same way you can be a fan of music and be entitled to your opinion on it just as much as a big headed egotistical unknown "musician". I have not "failed" at anything, if anyone's deluded it you!
@FabFM This is not good enough, Fab. You are trying to get out of answering questions by insults, bullying, smokescreens. I admit to know nought about skating. You, however, like other ne'erdowells, think you know about soccer. LOL. The government can take your human rights away, just so long as your team wins. Shame on you, Fab. You can't appreciate music if you are tone deaf, as your ravings about drumming make all too clear.
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@tigranvartanovitch You started the insults by claiming you are the authority on music and your opnion is the definitive one. It's not. Oh, and for the record I am no soccer fan, but what does that matter, you've been making assumptions based on nothing factual this entire time. And now you give your view on politics, but (going by your logic) unless you're an MP, you can't make a judgement on parliament.
I enjoy music fine thanks, including the BEST years of The Beatles!
@FabFM Back from your hiatus? It is not an insult to be an authority on music. Yes, it is true that I regard my opinion on music to be superior to a no-mark who is tone deaf, in the same way that a champion athlete will no more about the 100M hurdles than Long John Silver. Get over it, Fab. You can't enjoy music: you simply don't have the ear. Come on, Fab. We're still waiting for you to tell us which Pete Best 4 tracks Pete Best doesn't play on. You can't bullsh1t us for ever.
Yeah, had other things to do besides come on YT every 5 minites after you post, but as I'm having a lazy day today have been surfing the net.
You're no authority on music and you never will be. Your just someone who has an ego because they play an instrument and think too much of themselves. You're not more an authority on music that some berk in a merc who think's that makes him an expert in the world of motor cars.
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@tigranvartanovitch I'm not bullshitting anyone, i've already told you I don't have access to documentation on who played what on PB4 sessions, that's my honest answer. If you're trying to claim PB is a liar and doesn't play drums on all his recordings then please provide evidence of that. If you can't, or there is no real reason you mentioned it in the first place, it's clear that it's you that is full of crap.
@FabFM Then that refutes your argument that your opinion on music is just as good as mine. If you were a musican, you would know if PB played drums on "I'm Gonna Knock on Your Door" or not. You'll just have to accept reality. Sorry to paraphrase L & McC, FabFM; but you're a loser, and you are what you appear to be.
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@tigranvartanovitch It doesn't do anything of the sort, and your claim that you can just "tell by ear" because your a musician is utter nonsence. And don't think quoting a Beatles song makes you look "hard" and adds anything to your argument, it doesn't. You still look like the tit you always have been and always will be!
@FabFM Because you can't do something doesn't mean no one else can. Let me tell what I can do. I can listen to a piece of music and write it out as I am listening. I can write out music from thought without listening to it. I can tune my instrument from memory. And, yes, if I am familiar with a musician's style and attack, I can often tell who is playing on a record. And these are not exceptional gifts. Many musicians can do these things. That's how I know. You're not tough.
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@tigranvartanovitch You're not fooling me, if it's not PB then who is it. Surely your "magical ears" can tell us. It's funny how now you say "i know because of my ears" yet earlier you were banging on about "easily available documents of the sessions from the record company" that you were never able to obtain. You haven't been able to name this made up drummer. Your making up things, so nothing you say can be taken seriously.
@FabFM The docs are for your benefit. I've already mentioned 2 possible drummers. Incidentally, according to wiki, another drummer overdubbed on "Ain't She Sweet," which you hailed. Not that it matters, it still sounds awful. One simply can't polish a turd. The onus is on you to prove that Best played on "I'm going to knock on your door." YOU'RE not fooling ME. R.I.P.
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@tigranvartanovitch No, you're the one making the claim he didn't play, so the onus is on you to prove your claim, not for me to disprove it. And you're wrong, the "Ain't She Sweet" that was dubbed over was a 1964 US mix, not the version that was released in the UK in 1963, which was the version that was also released on the Anthology. So all that happened was that they removed Best's track on the 64 US release and got some unknown drummer in to do what Pete did. Pointless... like your posts!
@FabFM You've lied to us. You said all the Liverpool drummers said Best was a good drummer. Well, in among the Favourites on YOUR OWN channel is the following from Tony Mansfield from BJK & the Dakotas: "Pete Best - dead nice guy. Can't play the drums though. Anyway, I'm sorry, Pete, if you ever get to hear this." Your case is shot to pieces if you have to lie to make it. I shall not engage in any further correspondence with you. If there is anything I can't stand, it's deceit.
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@tigranvartanovitch If you don't want to engage with me further, then fair enough, I don't care, I'm not the one who responds every time within minutes anyway. If you don't like deceit then you must hate all your posts including your last one. I said their were drummers in Liverpool who said Best was better, I never claimed every drummer in liverpool had the same view. Of course they didn't, drummers in liverpool are like every human being, opinions will differ.
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@FabFM I'm with you. Many people here just try to mock PB, nothing else. There are many witnes in Hamburg and Liverpool who say that PB was good enough drummer. Check also Let's Stomp and Skinnie Minnie of Lee Curtis & The All Stars, they have PB on drums.
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@tauroscorp Yes, I know. Of course their are musicians who say Best was better. There are also musicians who don't think of themselves above everyone else and have the right to dictate what should be called good music. Many people have said "Ringo is the luckiest man in the world" and many will mock him. There are musicians who will even knock the whole group and claim them over-rated. Common sense tells you musicians are just people, and they are.
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@tigranvartanovitch Yeah ? ....so explain why ringo was picked -but didnt play on the first recording ? What you say MAY be correct { i can hear that, being of a pro drummer quality myself } but i think he could have nailed it - just like ringo did ...i personally love what he did toward the end of this song ... ah well ,...we will never know anyway ....pete is important to the history -and that is undeniable at least .
@TheMichaelseymour@TheMichaelseymour These days all the drums are miked up even in the smallest recording studios. In those days things were different. The obvious reply to your question is that Ringo couldn't hack it in the studio to begin with, and had to learn how to play in a studio, which he duly did. A lot of the early British rock bands had session drummers on their early tracks.
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Stupid people mockin Pete! He's not at his best here, but there are so many witnes that he was a very good drummer. Actually The Beatles took a great chance to kck out the most popular member from the band. He would have been playing in concerts but later he would have been on recordings too. You should invastigate more about him before you judge.
George Martin was right. This is dead drumming. However, Martin was not very clear with his wishes. He would have settled for a session drummer while they developed Best for live performances later. The Beatles wishing to take no chances with their opportunity decided to sack Pete.
Pete! They need somebody,
Pete! Not just anybody,
Pete! you know they need someone, Peeeete.
When they were younger, so much younger than today,
They always needed Pete's help in every way.
And now these days are back, they're not so self assured,
So now they find they've changed their minds and opened up the doors. Are you gonna help them there falling down? Pete are you gonna turn the career around? Won't you please, pleeeeeeeeeease help pete?
Negr0id 3 days ago
Ringo was a pro, while the Beatles, inc. Pete, were semi-pro!
At lest Pete has priceless memories.
peopleofthecircle 1 month ago 4
Sorry, it is clear Pete just wasn't up to the job. Not good enough. Why did he keep changing time signagtures ?? Should have kept it simple.
1039sflem 2 months ago
Oh I found the ringo drumming, not as solid as andy white, but very good, right around 144. They could have used Ringo's drummer in the release if they wanted.
bonerici 2 months ago
On second thought I might have been listeningn to session drummer Andy White . . . maybe Ring was awful too back then!
bonerici 2 months ago
@bonerici Actually the first UK release WAS Ringo's take. The session drummer played it exactly the same way Ringo had played it the week before. Except for the tambourine, the two are very hard to tell apart.
WisMiss101 2 months ago
Got out the metronome, correct me if I'm wrong but Pete starts out around 131 bpm then as the song goes on he's like the mule that sees his stall and gradually speeds up until he's at around 136 bpm at the end. Several times in the song, it seems like he's a bull rider trying to shake the singers off his back. By comparison Ringo is a metronome, 146 bpm plus or minus 0.5 bpm.
bonerici 2 months ago
he fucking blows ringo is better cause he brought the best out of all them .........they love ringo
marienmike 2 months ago
I can see clearly that Pete was like the Justin Bieber at the time. He had no talent but his looks were there to cover up for that.
101gamelover 2 months ago 2
@101gamelover don't you dare compare pete best with justin bieber. if you knew what you were talking about, you would not say such stupid things
superAwoman 2 weeks ago
lol il 'y a pas que la batterie qui est movais sur cette enregistrement^^
73benjo 2 months ago
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why the fuck are all of you hating on pete?!!
at least he was in the most popular and successful band of all time
thats waaaay more than any of you pathetic snobs can say about your lives
miki4088pen 2 months ago
three of them are thinking...please fire our drummer so we can get on with it
darius595 2 months ago 3
Hello you all!
Metallica fired Dave Mustaine, but he founded Megadeth, the rival of Metallica.
You Pete Best fans and rivals; he was in the same situation, but where is his Metallica?!
All the best
Jrahde
jrahde 3 months ago
@jrahde Oh, sorry for my dyslexia; I meant Pete Best fans and friends...
jrahde 3 months ago
I kinda dig the drumming here, and I'm surprised that I dislike the vocals.
TheSimeon88 3 months ago
@TheSimeon88 Are you Pete Best?
masterjoey1029 2 months ago
i think they booted PETE because he was better looking than the rest. I mean , really, how tough is it to beat the damn drums !
ahfaxthis 3 months ago
@ahfaxthis Since most drummers are so bad at it, I'd say pretty hard. The kid next door has been practicing for four years and still sounds like a wind-up toy, only louder (trust me). He could practice for the rest of his life and still not have any "feel." Amazingly, he's in a band. He'd be replaced in a heartbeat if his band could find someone better. Apparently they can't, even though we're in an area with over a million people. The good ones are that rare.
WisMiss101 3 months ago
@ahfaxthis You've never played the drums before, have you? hehe
TheMikeyReilly 3 months ago
happy birthday pete best
Hattergirl1000 3 months ago
Ringo is massively under-rated as a drummer . You listen to ANY pro backing track of a Beatle recording . The guitar work'll sound fine ,..the tempo will be spot
on , the backing vocals will be A1 . The only weak point is,...( guess what ! ! ) ???. Those session guys just can't get the drums right .That Ringo " back beat " is probably musically incorrect ,..but it is an intrinsic and necessary part of the Beatles Sound .John , Paul , and George were all too aware of this ! !
Rock on Ringo ! !
royrhodes 3 months ago 2
Its not happening at all- from any of them - they sound really nervous.
fieldfullofthistles 3 months ago
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Pete may be the best, but Ringo is the star. :)
TheSilhouette09 4 months ago
pathetic off timing drumming!
hairdoggy 4 months ago 11
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Pete forever! Ringo never!
Fooblestheclown 4 months ago
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What take was this, the first tryout to get the feel of it? How many other takes where attempted that we haven't heard? The Beatles got the point of fame and fortune with Pete Best no problem. I tend to believe the argument that Pete Best was a bit moody and shy, and it was this fact that persuaded Brian Epstein to drop him, hence the always smiling and jockular Ringo Starr elbowing his way in.Ringo was the total opposite of Pete in both looks and manner.
frankiehiyo 4 months ago
Yes, Pete wasn't a good drummer, but they should have done something for him--maybe plug his band in one of their radio or TV appearances, or give him a small part in "A Hard day's Night."
RaananVolesPianist 4 months ago
Pete Best's career ended with the Beatles at 1:26 - he lost the swing and lost the gig.
themindminder 4 months ago 3
What sunk Pete was his time. You can hear him speeding up and slowing down in this track and the groove suffers. The first job of a drummer is to keep steady time and to create patterns that groove. Peter falls apart on the bridge. Martin worked with professional studio drummers whose could deliver this. He knew he would not get a hit from the Beatles without this.
mahrette 5 months ago 2
The accurate John Lennon quote says this: "Pete Best was a drummer; Ringo Starr is a Beatle." (Beatles Monthly Book #249, January 1997, page 5) -- Not "good" or "great" or "better" -- just "a drummer."
WisMiss101 5 months ago 10
@WisMiss101 Pete was poor drummer who could not keep a steady beat. His unability to keep steady time is
so evident in this demo of Love Me Do. Not everyone is destined for the big time.
andrewr62 4 months ago 2
@andrewr62 And the problem with Pete Best's drumming on "Besame Mucho" was...?
Upsiditus7 1 month ago
This is a pretty weak take by everyone in my opinion. The vocals aren't as strong as the actual hit. Sounds like a first take. But we never will know. I wonder how many chances they actually gave him before they dumped him. I don't know. Mona Best wanted too much too. Eppy hated her. Martin said they need a drummer. I think it was all orchestrated by Eppy.
zoltar5282 5 months ago
@zoltar5282 actually it was more george's doing. he really pushed for ringo. they all wanted him, but when martin said that they should use a studio drummer for 'love me do'. they took that as a sign to axe pete and bring in ringo.
jonesing82 5 months ago
@zoltar5282 or maybe epstein was snubbed when he made a pass at best, peter ;p
ultrakool 1 month ago
He's playing pretty quiet comparing to Ringo especially, not very good as well.
KristinaKaulitz9489 6 months ago
Kind of plodding. Well, worse than that. Did Best decide to play it like that? Sounds like he'd never heard the song before or thought about it if he had. Like be, in high school, playing on downers. No wonder the others yelled at me as the songs ground down to a halt . . .
vcx9dfne 6 months ago
This is remarkably clumsy drumming.
Kaalec 6 months ago
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Well, this explains why he was kicked out.
TyTyMcBerg 6 months ago
makes me laugh when he changes the tempo in the middle of the chorus.
Awful drummer, thank God they got Ringo. This band would have failed hard with Pete at the back.
TopTenCrew 6 months ago 6
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The real reason Pete was dropped was because his Mother had a club in her basement, and the boys would play there at lunch time. John & Paul decided to dump Pete because Pete's Mom was trying to horn in on their popularity and tried to be the band's manager.. So they dropped Pete like a hot potato and they just said that he wasn't that good a drummer so as to avoid a messy breakup.Pete's Mom was very ambitious and may have tried to strongarm John & Paul to let him play in their band.
harpo103 6 months ago
A drooling imbecile could have played the drum part for Love Me Do. Point?
JeffersonDinedAlone 6 months ago
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Actually, the common version of "Love me Do" was recorded with drummer Andy White, not Ringo. " Andrew "Andy" White (born 1930) is a Scottish drummer, best known for replacing Ringo Starr on drums on The Beatles' first single, "Love Me Do" - Wikipedia
diozent 6 months ago
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@diozent Andy White lives near me. I gotta contact him someday.
harpo103 6 months ago
i can see why they got rid of this drummer easily....its obvious
dempsey981 6 months ago 3
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John Lennon: "Pete Best was a good drummer, but Ringo was a good Beatle." 'Nough said.
garotadagavea 7 months ago
@garotadagavea Pete was a medicore drummer period. Nuff said.
andrewr62 6 months ago
Tough break Pete but if they wouldn't have fired you it would have been Pete Best and the Beatles.
yhs1981 7 months ago
Why didn't anyone tell John Lennon in 1970 " Sorry John Yoko is out Grace Slick is in" just to give an example.hahahaha
yhs1981 7 months ago
Thank God for Richard Starkey! Love ya, Ringo!!!! :)
tamartin43 7 months ago
See Pete Best on an early cavern video here on youtube, he's not interested, he even stops playing. "Love Me Do" is no song to judge any musician on , though, because it's crap. It's just a wailing dead thing, can't think why anybody gave tuppence for it, think it was 1s/6d or something. Pete has only his own lack of foresight to blame, he quite obviously thought The Beatles were going nowhere, he was just there for notice from the girls and he got masses of that.
myastheria 8 months ago
ahhhhhhh so THATS why they kicked him out. And i tot is was becuz of his good looks. completely messes up ....wow
lovedandhis 8 months ago 4
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You people are so daft, just listening for one song or one take and you are judging the person.
tauroscorp 8 months ago
@tauroscorp As a musician, I can tell you that you see how good or bad a drummer is in about 4 bars. Pete sucked.
Kaalec 6 months ago 5
ringo es mejor segun yo
wereverflimorro 8 months ago
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I actually like that last part better like Best played it in this recording.
Roolek 8 months ago
All Best Needed is just sit down for a 5 hours in a just a week, he would be probably trained himself for good drumming.
Cartholomew 8 months ago
On this song - Pete Best messed up on his timing - He really was quite awful - He would have been a drag to the Beatles success.
Doug5007 8 months ago
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@Doug5007 there is no way of knowing when the tempo changes in this recording ,during the harmonica solo, that this is not the way it was meant to be played during the session. It sounds more like a tempo change cause it stays consistent for those bars , rather than he messed up. It actually makes it sound different & like an alternate take.
alvin01 8 months ago
All the other Beatles went on record about the dismissal of Best. McCartney said: "It was a strictly professional decision. If he wasn't up to the mark... then there was no other choice". He also pronounced Best to be "a bit limited". Harrison said that "Pete kept being sick and not showing up for gigs" and admitted, "I was quite responsible for stirring things up. I conspired to get Ringo in for good; I talked to Paul and John until they came round to the idea
gdosic 8 months ago
@gdosic yeah sounds like the bitter harrison didnt he realise he was in the ringo camp and couldve been replaced by any 1 other.....rip your twisted sub vocal point of view and voice george!
WideEyedGirl1 8 months ago
The accurate John Lennon quote says this: "Pete Best was a drummer; Ringo Starr is a Beatle." (Beatles Monthly Book #249, January 1997, page 5) -- Not "good" or "great" or "better" -- just "a drummer."
WisMiss101 8 months ago 3
I prefer Ringo but i bet that if this drumming was Ringo´s, you would say OMG great drums! -.-
sk8orfckindie 8 months ago
My Pal "Phil "Phibber" Munchausen says Pete was sacked because he had no head for heights,the guys knew the day would come when they'd have to play on the roof of Apple buildings,Pete would have gone dizzy and fallen off........
myepiphone 8 months ago
Drums are way behind the pocket and are just wrong . Could be better.
boobj 9 months ago 2
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Now I AM GLAD to say I'm not this guy, been so close to be one of The Beatles, rich glomour women and suddenly nothing, working graveyard and god knows what else to make ends meet, damn now that is BAD LUCK!
drakmaify 9 months ago
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You should listen Lee Curtis & The All Stars version of Let's Stomp and Skinnie Minnie. PB is playing on them.
tauroscorp 9 months ago
ringo 4 ever ق1
HeEem92 9 months ago
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Someone on here is claiming that Pete Best didn't play drums on the Pete Best All-Stars "I'm Gonna Knock on Your Door." How does this person know that? And if Best isn't the drummer, who is?
Upsiditus 9 months ago
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Yes, now that you mention it, I think the author was joking actually. I think his name was Mallory Curley. I recall Curley saying that (to his credit) Best has never apologized for his drumming on Love Me Do. I think it is interesting and that Best has been given a bum rap, although Ringo is still a better drummer.
Upsiditus 9 months ago
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I recall reading somewhere that Paul McCartney overdubbed drumming on the Anthology 1 version of Love Me Do, so that people would think Pete Best was a terrible drummer. Has anyone else ever heard about this?
Upsiditus 9 months ago
@Upsiditus Ask yourself what would have happened if that were true. Answer: lawsuit. Technical experts can easily determine if a record has been overdubbed. Their court testimony would have guaranteed a huge settlement for Pete. So, it didn't happen.
WisMiss101 9 months ago 4
More isn't better. It's often worse. Ringo could do more in a heartbeat ("I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and Cry Over You" Live at the BBC). He just knew better.
WisMiss101 9 months ago 10
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has anyone heard the decca sessions?pete was a far better drummer than ringo.everyone seems to forget when ringo was brought in george martin didnt like his drumming either;it seems to me that it was personality conflicts as according to cynthia lennon john told her pete was a far better drummer but ringo was easier to get along with.timing problems on one given day in 1962 proves nothing to a musicians ability.but as the next 8 years proved the other 3 didnt need a very accomplished drummer.
jelisa46 9 months ago
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@jelisa46 I totally agree with you! It's great that someone else is defending PB too.
tauroscorp 9 months ago
its not only his musical ability but he just wasnt very close with the rest of them. He would alienate himself from the group and being isolated all the time just made him grow further and further apart. he wouldnt wear the matching clothes or adopt the bowl hair cut and he wouldnt take the drugs that the rest of them were. he was just never meant to be a beatle
vozza14 9 months ago
He drags the tempo in the mid 8 badly.... Sorry, Pete. You are #1 on my list of guys who handle negative life events well however. Anyone else would have topped themselves for sure in that situation.
cranie4 9 months ago
@cranie4 You have to be fair, and acknowledge that the singing was horrible too. The guitars were so so.
MAGICO240 7 months ago
@MAGICO240 Well to be fair it's a poor recording..some due to age I'm sure. However you cannot say the guitars or singing were "horrible" on this take as shortly after that they rerecorded it to the version you know and love. You CAN say that the drums were not solid and the weak link in the group. I think Pete is a great person but based on THIS recording I would have replaced him too. Also let's not forget that ultimately Ringo didn't play on this track either.. it was a session musician.
cranie4 7 months ago
Finally I can say I drum as good as a Beatle drummer. I don't even own a single drum! Just kidding. But ringo is better. The 5th best drummer by Rolling Stone
BonJoviBeatlesLedZep 10 months ago
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Pete looked more mature and more handsome than the others--Ringo would come in and 'fit in' a little better. Pete had the girls screaming and took up the attention from the others.
jmshaw357 10 months ago
My God, that was horrible... not just Pete's drumming, but all of them...
Well, this was one of their earliest recordings of the song, so I can't be too harsh on them... still, this sounds like something my friends and I could have made xD
& who says that Pete was the best-looking..? For me, it'll always be Paul or John ♥
MileygirlJ12 10 months ago
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@MileygirlJ12 The recording is primitive. The mix is way off. I have heard better earlier recordings by them.
jimidee33 10 months ago
That was great fun to hear.
DAVWAVE 10 months ago
pete best was very popular with the early year girl fans, and he was very good looking, but the truth is he just wasnt good enough, paul george and john were brilliant playing with a beginner. if he played like ringo did trust me he wouldnt have left. the other three were also insanely popular, no reason for those three to be jealous of anyone. he simply wasnt good enough to play with those three.
jasartrip9598 10 months ago 3
Christ, he's rubbish. Especially at the end there. I mean, they're all loose, but he's all over the place. Bah.
AshleyMarkPomeroy 10 months ago
@AshleyMarkPomeroy Yea but the reason they're all loose is because Pete's drumming. Truly awful.
lonedrone 8 months ago
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Yeh ....by the way ...listin to pauls shocking lead vocal ....and judge him the same way ...just nerves .....pete could have been the live drummer and a studio guy take up the slack till he got the hang of recordings -as was the custom then .. still , whats done is done.
TheMichaelseymour 11 months ago
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1.43 ...i love the diffrent feel pete put to it .....wish ringo had done that ....or was it alan white? , ...anyway that was cool.
TheMichaelseymour 11 months ago
Yes, this recording certainly proves why George Martin didn't think he was good enough. I don't think he was quite as bad as this recording implies though - the Hamburg recordings are OK. But this is truly terrible drumming.
lonedrone 11 months ago
@lonedrone
oh well, but then the hamburg live show shows why ringo is the man.
OropherThranduil 11 months ago 2
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It's funny that some people think just because they play an instrument, they have the final say on what good music is. They don't. Personal opinion comes into it. It's like a chef saying they know what tastes good. If you go to a restaurant and have a bad meal,it's bad, no matter how long the chef who cooked it has been cooking. Of course, in the culinary world, not anyone can be a chef, but anyone who thinks they can play self proclaims them-self as a musician!
FabFM 11 months ago
The drummming just doesnt gel with the song. It's a song that doesnt get any simpler and he just complicates and ruins it. If this is an indication then he wouldnt have any place being a Beatle. They were a big band in Liverpool so he must have been something right. I just cant hear it here....
genericgeorge 11 months ago
This is ok but I like the one they release later. The harmonica part is simpler and the drumming is a little stiff. The vocals were not as flowing. This video there ability to improve demonstrating real talent.
MrBeatlelover 11 months ago
I don't know why there is controversy as to why best was sacked. And if, after playing night after night in Germany, this is the best he can muster, then out he goes. It is not just this track. He plays shit on every track he plays on. He's just not good enough. It's as simple as that.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago 14
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@tigranvartanovitch The reason their is controversy is simple... if Best was as terrible as you claim they'd have been no success in hamburg. none in Liverpool and no Brian Epstein being "struck by the bands atomic beat". The fact is if Best was crap, the Beatles would have been known as "the group with the shit drummer" and the laughing stock of the club scene. They were not. Best was a decent drummer. If he wasn't people certainly wouldn't be talking about him all these years on!
FabFM 11 months ago
@FabFM You are clearly not a musician. You can use what you think is reason all you want. I go by what I hear. Nothing about good looks. Nothing about "not being a Beatle." He could not play to a professional standard. People are talking about him now because people love a mystery. And if one is not a musician, it is a mystery as to why he was kicked out. However, if one is a musician, it is patently obvious. "Atomic beat" was was a term thought up by the editor of "Merseybeat," not Epstein.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch I'm "clearly not a musician?" don't assume. I go by what I hear too, just because I disagree with you doesn't make me wrong. Again look at the FACTS - Best was a drummer for over 2 years. No one's talking about looks here, this is nearly 50 years further down the track, Best can no longer get by on his looks alone. And no, we don't love a mystery, we are bemused as why someone who some claim was not good enough and a shit drummer lasted 2 years before anyone noticed!
FabFM 11 months ago
@FabFM You are not a musician, because you claimed his playing on Besame Mucho is an example of excellence, and that his playing on Love Me Do was unfinished. LOL. Books and films where Best was consultant have implied that the others kicked him out because Best's looks made him a favourite with the fans. He lasted two years because the whole band was crap. But the other three got better with experience. Best did not, so he got the boot. If you were a musician, you would know this.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch Yeah I did claim his drumming was good on Besame Mucho and it is regardless of what you think. The whole band was crap eh? So they got all those hundreds of gigs because they were crap then? LOL LOL LOL You're talking out your arse! You know nothing about music and are just interested in slagging off Best to make yourself feel better, because you are an unknown musician and want the opportunity to act like you are the big know all. You're not, and that is painfully obvious!
FabFM 11 months ago
@FabFM When they first started out the Beatles were crap. All inexperienced bands are. Again, if you were a musician you would know this. Another thing you ought to know is that you can always tell who is losing an argument, because they get abusive to the other party. If I wanted to castigate someone to make myself feel better, I would slag off someone who has more substance than Best - like Ringo. I'm afraid I don't have a bad word to say about Ringo - sorry to disappoint you.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
@FabFM But, hey, FabFm! Don't keep it a secret. Suppose YOU tell US the real reason why the Beatles sacked Best. Was it because of his good looks? Was it because he didn't comb his hair forward? Was it because they couldn't find a Beatle suit his size? Was it because he was such a good muso that he showed up the other three? Was it because a classical oboist like George Martin or a professional drummer like Tony Meehan were trying to make themselves feel better, too? Do tell us, FabFm.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch I don't really give a crap WHY best was fired, it's no concern of mine, the only people who should have been concerned are those that did it and Best himself. Oh and George Martin never wanted Best fired, he just said he would prefer a studio drummer (Martin was not a rock n roll producer pre-Beatles, he was used to big bands) and actually apologized to Best later on, because he never wanted him kicked out.
FabFM 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch Best didn't join the Beatles when they were "first starting out", John, Paul and George had been playing in bands together since 58. Best came into the picture in mid-60. I didn't get abusive to you. Me telling you just because you think you play an instrument gives you the right to say "i know more, my opinions more valid that most the world" is not abuse, it's pointing out you have an ego, and I won't let you tell me that your opnions are fact. They ain't. Get over it!
FabFM 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch Best just released an album on EMI btw, what label is your latest release on?
FabFM 11 months ago
@FabFM Let's make a deal, FabFM. You tell us the real reason why Best was kicked out. And I will tell you the label that my latest release is on. You first.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch Not being Paul McCartney I can't answer that question, but being yourself you can answer a question about you, so go ahead...
FabFM 11 months ago
@FabFM What a kopout! What a bullshitter!
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch No it's not a "kopout" it's just that I don't pretend to know things I don't. Unlike you!
FabFM 11 months ago
@FabFM "Oh and George Martin never wanted Best fired, he just said he would prefer a studio drummer"
LOL. Yeah. That's what he told Mona.
"I don't pretend to know things I don't."
LOL You pretend to know good drumming when you hear it.
You will have to forgive me for not giving you the name of a record label. It will save you the trouble of calling me a liar, and it will also give you an opportunity to prove your claim that you don't pretend to know things you don't.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch "That's what he told Mona." That's what he still says NOW. He apologized to Best in recent years!
"You pretend to know good drumming". No pretence. I just like good drumming by the BEST!
Yeah, I knew there was no record label. I also already know I don't pretend to know things I don't. Please collect your award for most pointless reply.
FabFM 11 months ago
@FabFM "Yeah, I knew there was no record label. I also already know I don't pretend to know things I don't."
LOL Now you're contradicting yourself. I won't bother mentioning a record company. Your sort then say liar. The Beatles, George Martin are being diplomatic. You can't accept this, any more than Best could. He says himself that Epstein told him that the boys and George Martin had said he wasn't good enough. You like FACTS. There they are. Suck 'em in and cope, buddy.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
@FabFm I really don't see what your problem is. If you look at the history of bands who were on the verge of their big break, it is not unusual to be told by the record company to get rid of deadwood. The band kicks a member out, gets in a professional, and they never look back. If you were a musician, you would know this.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch I have no problem, you do. You want to be able to say it's a fact Best was a shit drummer... it's not... YOU may think he is, but that's not a fact. Others opinions and views count as much as yours, regardless of whether you are a musician or not. And whether or not you can play does not give you greater inside knowledge to the lives of famous people than the rest of us.
FabFM 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch No i'm not contradicting myself, I just know you're full of crap. My "sort" say liar (yeah, the sort who have common sense would, something your sort lacks).
And Again your wrong, The Beatles are not being diplomatic (indeed many interviews with the Beatles were very harsh on Best... another claim of yours proven WRONG. You really should at least know what your talking about before you talk. Here's a tip: don't PRETEND you know something. Keep quiet if you know sod all!
FabFM 11 months ago
@FabFM Thank you for your tip, FabFm. You will be delighted to know that I am following it to the letter. I do know what I am talking about. Trying to change the subject by castigating me is a sign of a lost argument. If one is a musician, one can tell who is not a musician by what they say. You are not a musician. I reiterate that Best himself said that Eppy told him the boys and George Martin had said that his drumming was not up to required standard. Case closed.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
@tigranvartanovitch Also your argument that I refuse to name a record label is because I am not a musician is puerile. Any fool can rattle off a name. It proves nothing. You would just say "liar" because you are a stone cold loser. As such you surround yourself with other losers, bullshitters and crapmagnets. A symptom of being a loser is that when confronted with someone who has achieved something tangible, your reaction is disbelief. That is how I know you are a loser. Case closed.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch nah i'm not a stone cold loser, people who are losers are the ones who claim their views and opinions are fact. That's you. Keep trying to "close" the cases... it won't make any difference, you won't "win". See... you're trying so hard to be the "winner", but you won't win, so it's you who is the loser. You'll never be the "winner", you'll never be able to say "i'm right, your not" and have the "case closed". Trying to "win" something you never can makes you a forever loser!
FabFM 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch You are not following anything to the letter and continue to pretend you know what you are speaking of, when you know nowt.
Who changed the subject? We're still talking about Pete Best, so no subject has been changed.
Pete Best was good enough, and some real muscains even released a record with that title. Case closed!
FabFM 11 months ago
@FabFM You do know I am a real musician. That is why you spend so much time on me. You know I am dangerous. But deep down you really do know that he wasn't good enough, don't you? The Beatles were not cruel to him. They had given him two years to improve. He hadn't, so they had to let him go. I had read various reasons over the years why he was sacked. Then I heard the Anthology Vol 1. To anyone who has a musical ear it is obvious why he got the boot. Get over it.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch You wish you were a real musician, that's for sure. Dangerous? To the general public maybe. Deep down I know this Pete Best was great and the reason you spend so much time on him is because you wish you were. The claim the Beatles were not cruel to him is ridiculous, and John and Paul both admitted this themselves years later. Add the fact Best was sacked on the eve of their mega stardom, shows any "period to improve" is (again) made up horse shit from the king of crap - you!
FabFM 11 months ago
@FabFM "His drumming on the other hand was not good. At the end of the test I took Brian to one side and said: 'I don't know what you're going to do with the group as such but this drumming isn't good enough for what I want. It isn't regular enough. It doesn't give the right kind of sound. If we do make a record, I'd much prefer to have my own drummer, which won't make any difference to you because no one will know who's on the record anyway.'...
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
@FabFM ..."What I didn't know at the time is that the group already wanted Pete Best out and Ringo Starr in, and my remarks were something of a last straw." Sir George Martin - "All You Need Is Ears"
Well, that's a load of horseshit. As soon as Sir George heard the Decca recordings, it would have gone like this:
Martin. You'll need a better drummer.
Epstein. That's what the other record companies said. The matter is in hand.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
@FabFM I will convince you that I know what I am talking about. The thought has crossed my mind that you are a wind-up merchant playing advocatus diaboli. If you are a sensible person, you will accept that I know what I am talking about. If you are living in cloud-cuckoo land, you will continue to behave like a dick. Tell us who plays drums on PB4's "I'm Going to Knock on Your Door." Is is Bobby Graham? Tony Meehan? I don't know who it is. But I thought you might. QED
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch "If you are a sensible person, you will accept that I know what I am talking about"
No, I would be a fool to do that. Accept what someone else tells me to think. No. Sorry. But keep trying to "win", you're still going to loose, because you won't be able to tell me what I should believe, think or feel. Also, telling me i'm a dick has no affect. I'm not the one trying to boost my ego by forcing a view as fact on someone, so I know who is the dick out of us two, it's not me!
FabFM 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch All the "other record companies" didn't want the entire group, there was no "sack the drummer and your hired" from any of the other labels. Lets also not forget Stu Sudcliffe couldn't play bass at all, yet the Beatles never sacked him, even when it meant they lost a gig. So even if Best was crap (which I don't believe to be the case) they didn't extend that same courtesy to him.
FabFM 11 months ago
@FabFM No. Don't snide out of it. Who played drums on "I'm Going to Knock on Your Door"? Let's see what you really know about facts, and forcing things down people's throats. Who was it, FabFM?
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch I'm not sniding out of anything and neither am I forcing anything down anyones throat. I can honestly state that from the outset I said others had the right to their own opinion, you can't!
FabFM 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch And if you've got any proof Best didn't drum on any of his tracks, I'd be more than happy to see it. Not aware of it myself to be fair. Of course, you'd have to prove he didn't drum on every track he ever recorded, not just one or two, because it's not uncommon for other drummers to drum on the odd track, but we're not talking about that, we're talking about Pete's drumming, and it certainly is him on most of the PB4 cuts and the Sheridan sessions.
FabFM 11 months ago
@FabFM You are right on only one thing: that I regard my observations to be superior to yours. And they are. You say yourself: "and it certainly is him [sic] on most of the PB4 cuts..." so you imply that he does not play on some. Which tracks are these, FabFM? You have also not answered the question as to who is the drummer on "...Knock on Your Door." If it is any help to you, the studios keep a log of who played what. It should be easy for you to find out.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch No you're observations are not superior to mine, no matter how you think they might be, delude yourself all you want if it makes you feel a "winner", but as pointed out previously, the reality is your a forever loser!
Hey, why don't you post a link to this information of the log. I have no idea if Best played on all the PB4 tracks or not, and if your trying to claim he didn't, then show us your source!
FabFM 11 months ago
@FabFM Then what you are saying is that I, who have never strapped on skates, can judge the Olympic ice skating just as well as an expert judge, because my opinion is just as good as theirs. That's tosh! You are saying that you, who have no musical ear, can judge a drummer just as well as a musician. That's delusion. You have failed to tell us why Best was thrown out. You have failed to tell us which PB4 tracks he does not play on. Put up or shut up, FabFm!
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
@FabFM The notion that Best was a shit drummer was confirmed by Sir George Martin, Tony Meehan, John Lennon. and a host of other musicians. That makes this notion the status quo. You want to challenge the status quo, then the onus is on you to come up with some concrete evidence. It is not for me to go on a bummel through the uneducated mind of some tone-deaf loser who comes direct from the Hall of the Mountain King.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch And there are a lot of witness that he was a good drummer: Chris Curtis from The Searchers and other band-members in Liverpool, the other technician in Parlophone, the crowd in Liverpool and Hamburg... Always someone is saying why he wasn't popular if he was a good drummer... For example Johnny Hutchinson of The Big Three was very good, but were they popular outside Liverpool and Hamburg..? No, they weren't, although they should have been.
tauroscorp 10 months ago
@tauroscorp We can't ask Chris Curtis: he's dead. Who is the other technician at EMI? One of them was working with Best, and Best wasn't responding. Liverpool musicians know Best and are being diplomatic. A lot of people have no musical ear, and couldn't tell if the drummer were Pete Best, Ed Cassidy or a chimpanzee. One of them gave George Harrison a Glasgow kiss over Pete Best. As well as the EMI, Polydor & Decca recordings, there are radio shows Best played on. He just wasn't good enough.
tigranvartanovitch 10 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch Yeah that's exactly what i'm saying you dummy. If ice skating was your favorite sport, of course you could. People watch football and know whether it's a shit match or not, they don't have to score a winning goal at wembley to know a good match from a bad match. The same way you can be a fan of music and be entitled to your opinion on it just as much as a big headed egotistical unknown "musician". I have not "failed" at anything, if anyone's deluded it you!
FabFM 11 months ago
@FabFM This is not good enough, Fab. You are trying to get out of answering questions by insults, bullying, smokescreens. I admit to know nought about skating. You, however, like other ne'erdowells, think you know about soccer. LOL. The government can take your human rights away, just so long as your team wins. Shame on you, Fab. You can't appreciate music if you are tone deaf, as your ravings about drumming make all too clear.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch You started the insults by claiming you are the authority on music and your opnion is the definitive one. It's not. Oh, and for the record I am no soccer fan, but what does that matter, you've been making assumptions based on nothing factual this entire time. And now you give your view on politics, but (going by your logic) unless you're an MP, you can't make a judgement on parliament.
I enjoy music fine thanks, including the BEST years of The Beatles!
FabFM 10 months ago
@FabFM Back from your hiatus? It is not an insult to be an authority on music. Yes, it is true that I regard my opinion on music to be superior to a no-mark who is tone deaf, in the same way that a champion athlete will no more about the 100M hurdles than Long John Silver. Get over it, Fab. You can't enjoy music: you simply don't have the ear. Come on, Fab. We're still waiting for you to tell us which Pete Best 4 tracks Pete Best doesn't play on. You can't bullsh1t us for ever.
tigranvartanovitch 10 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch "Back from your hiatus?"
Yeah, had other things to do besides come on YT every 5 minites after you post, but as I'm having a lazy day today have been surfing the net.
You're no authority on music and you never will be. Your just someone who has an ego because they play an instrument and think too much of themselves. You're not more an authority on music that some berk in a merc who think's that makes him an expert in the world of motor cars.
FabFM 10 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch I'm not bullshitting anyone, i've already told you I don't have access to documentation on who played what on PB4 sessions, that's my honest answer. If you're trying to claim PB is a liar and doesn't play drums on all his recordings then please provide evidence of that. If you can't, or there is no real reason you mentioned it in the first place, it's clear that it's you that is full of crap.
FabFM 10 months ago
@FabFM Then that refutes your argument that your opinion on music is just as good as mine. If you were a musican, you would know if PB played drums on "I'm Gonna Knock on Your Door" or not. You'll just have to accept reality. Sorry to paraphrase L & McC, FabFM; but you're a loser, and you are what you appear to be.
tigranvartanovitch 10 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch It doesn't do anything of the sort, and your claim that you can just "tell by ear" because your a musician is utter nonsence. And don't think quoting a Beatles song makes you look "hard" and adds anything to your argument, it doesn't. You still look like the tit you always have been and always will be!
FabFM 10 months ago
@FabFM Because you can't do something doesn't mean no one else can. Let me tell what I can do. I can listen to a piece of music and write it out as I am listening. I can write out music from thought without listening to it. I can tune my instrument from memory. And, yes, if I am familiar with a musician's style and attack, I can often tell who is playing on a record. And these are not exceptional gifts. Many musicians can do these things. That's how I know. You're not tough.
tigranvartanovitch 10 months ago 9
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@tigranvartanovitch You're not fooling me, if it's not PB then who is it. Surely your "magical ears" can tell us. It's funny how now you say "i know because of my ears" yet earlier you were banging on about "easily available documents of the sessions from the record company" that you were never able to obtain. You haven't been able to name this made up drummer. Your making up things, so nothing you say can be taken seriously.
FabFM 9 months ago
@FabFM The docs are for your benefit. I've already mentioned 2 possible drummers. Incidentally, according to wiki, another drummer overdubbed on "Ain't She Sweet," which you hailed. Not that it matters, it still sounds awful. One simply can't polish a turd. The onus is on you to prove that Best played on "I'm going to knock on your door." YOU'RE not fooling ME. R.I.P.
tigranvartanovitch 9 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch No, you're the one making the claim he didn't play, so the onus is on you to prove your claim, not for me to disprove it. And you're wrong, the "Ain't She Sweet" that was dubbed over was a 1964 US mix, not the version that was released in the UK in 1963, which was the version that was also released on the Anthology. So all that happened was that they removed Best's track on the 64 US release and got some unknown drummer in to do what Pete did. Pointless... like your posts!
FabFM 9 months ago
@FabFM You've lied to us. You said all the Liverpool drummers said Best was a good drummer. Well, in among the Favourites on YOUR OWN channel is the following from Tony Mansfield from BJK & the Dakotas: "Pete Best - dead nice guy. Can't play the drums though. Anyway, I'm sorry, Pete, if you ever get to hear this." Your case is shot to pieces if you have to lie to make it. I shall not engage in any further correspondence with you. If there is anything I can't stand, it's deceit.
tigranvartanovitch 9 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch If you don't want to engage with me further, then fair enough, I don't care, I'm not the one who responds every time within minutes anyway. If you don't like deceit then you must hate all your posts including your last one. I said their were drummers in Liverpool who said Best was better, I never claimed every drummer in liverpool had the same view. Of course they didn't, drummers in liverpool are like every human being, opinions will differ.
FabFM 9 months ago
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@FabFM I'm with you. Many people here just try to mock PB, nothing else. There are many witnes in Hamburg and Liverpool who say that PB was good enough drummer. Check also Let's Stomp and Skinnie Minnie of Lee Curtis & The All Stars, they have PB on drums.
tauroscorp 9 months ago
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@tauroscorp Yes, I know. Of course their are musicians who say Best was better. There are also musicians who don't think of themselves above everyone else and have the right to dictate what should be called good music. Many people have said "Ringo is the luckiest man in the world" and many will mock him. There are musicians who will even knock the whole group and claim them over-rated. Common sense tells you musicians are just people, and they are.
FabFM 9 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch Perhaps Ringo didn't play for example on All My Loving... Or have you proof for that..?
tauroscorp 10 months ago
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@tigranvartanovitch Yeah ? ....so explain why ringo was picked -but didnt play on the first recording ? What you say MAY be correct { i can hear that, being of a pro drummer quality myself } but i think he could have nailed it - just like ringo did ...i personally love what he did toward the end of this song ... ah well ,...we will never know anyway ....pete is important to the history -and that is undeniable at least .
TheMichaelseymour 11 months ago
@TheMichaelseymour @TheMichaelseymour These days all the drums are miked up even in the smallest recording studios. In those days things were different. The obvious reply to your question is that Ringo couldn't hack it in the studio to begin with, and had to learn how to play in a studio, which he duly did. A lot of the early British rock bands had session drummers on their early tracks.
tigranvartanovitch 11 months ago
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Stupid people mockin Pete! He's not at his best here, but there are so many witnes that he was a very good drummer. Actually The Beatles took a great chance to kck out the most popular member from the band. He would have been playing in concerts but later he would have been on recordings too. You should invastigate more about him before you judge.
tauroscorp 11 months ago
George Martin was right. This is dead drumming. However, Martin was not very clear with his wishes. He would have settled for a session drummer while they developed Best for live performances later. The Beatles wishing to take no chances with their opportunity decided to sack Pete.
vl5150 11 months ago
There were actually three versions of "Love Me Do" because they also taped their June audition with Pete, and that's what you hear on this video.
WisMiss101