Brad Warner: Atheism and Buddhism

[TheSaliozzia]

this comment and the reader are both god. Nice to meet you.

[stylympics]

That is simply a good dharma talk. Gassho Brad! ;-)

[Yankeegator]

Oh, the creeping relativism. Western Civ is being destroyed by it...

[ainanor]

Westerners who became buddhists are mostly people who dont or have ever know true God! If you have not Gods knowledge you can fall into every kind of religion!

[kanshiketsu1]

You don't think Buddhism is atheism, but you did until a few years ago, didn't you?

[narlzp]

I would say buddhist are agnostics. In other words they dont rely or at least in its earliest forms does not rely on a God for spiritual enlightment. Do Buddhists reject God? no. Do Buddhists embrace God well it this is respective of the different cultures where Buddhism was embraced. If you are talking about the style of Buddhist philosophy taught at Nalanda University commissioned in 200BC India then perhaps not.

[creationofself]

I belive God is intent, and it is beyond us, yet intimate with us. Through the manifistations of this intent God can be experinced, as conscious minds are the recipients, thus we define it and it defines us.

[libertyandjustice]

I would say Buddhism when stripped to it's core is atheistic and anti-spiritual. Some say they are on a spiritual journey, but the dharma is very grounded in using the mind to understand reality and shift towards ethical behaviour, which requires no ties to mystical elements or a soul.

[squamish4244]

@libertyandjustice I disagree with you because the word 'atheism' itself is an idea about how the world is (just like the word 'soul') and all ideas are limited. Buddhism is nondual and ultimately about getting beyond all concepts of the world or ourselves being this way or that way.

[boffinme80]

@libertyandjustice You're missing the point. Completely. Buddhism is no way anti-spiritual. What do you think Enlightenment is?? The light path that leads you to your goal - to be happy. Buddhism spiritual elements are very different to Christianity's. In theory, you don't ask God to help you, you help yourself, by making the right choice. You gained your life by achieving it, now you will experience it elsewhere. Read about Buddhism before you misunderstand it.

[BillKiernan]

i usually disagree with brad warner but he's totally correct here. even though atheists want SO badly for it not to be true.

[av949]

When someone says "god" to me, I don't think of a man with a beard and white robe. In fact, my concept is rather abstract. More a substance of infinite qualities that underlies the universe. I believe "god" exists, but I don't believe God exists.

[56bloodhorn]

loved it brad!!!

[pixusbubblejet]

god is irrelevant in buddhism, because believing or disbelieving in god does not lead to enlightenment, in fact the debate causes stress and not enlightenment.. in this way the theism vs antitheism debate is a bad distraction.. the buddha was not interested in god because he realized to ponder such things becomes a major distraction away from the number one point of buddhism, which is buddha enlightenment.

[BillKiernan]

@pixusbubblejet "the buddha was not interested in god because he realized to ponder such things becomes a major distraction" he actually went even further and said a "creator god" was impossible. still, Buddhism is not atheistic. "non-theistic" might be closer to a good definition.

[seiferganon]

@BillKiernan Atheism simply means one does not believe in god. It doesn't mean one does not believe god exists, don't get me wrong, it could but in general it doesn't. If Buddhism thinks god is irrelevant it is apatheistic, which doesn't rule out theism or atheism. However, if what you say is true, and Buddha said a creator god was impossible, it would not be that much of a stretch to say Buddha was anti-theistic, which is a strong form of atheism.

[BillKiernan]

@seiferganon my reasoning for saying it's not atheistic, is the many, many places in the scriptures where the buddha talks about gods matter-of-factly, as if they exist. an atheist doesn't think 'there are all kinds of gods and super natural beings, but they're not relevant to my life's path." rather, "most likely, such things do not exist at all." the buddha was not, by any means, of the latter camp, judging from the scriptures.

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

Nontheism is a term that covers a range of both religious and nonreligious attitudes characterized by the absence of — or the rejection of — theism or any belief in a personal god or gods.

[mmorfordx]

Brad, your redefining of the word god is silly and childish. Common sense should tell you that when the average person uses the word 'god' he/she is referring to a creator.

[thesousabone]

@mmorfordx so then should the term " sex god" be interpreted as sex creator?

[darwinisgreat]

EXCELLENT PRESENTATION

[zacharythax]

This video literally saved my marriage.

[Ramshobraja]

A westerner will be a lot more hung up on this concept od a god than an easterner. This monotheistic personal god is a western creation/bias.

[riotgrrrl582]

<3 him. hardcore zen is such a fun and interesting book too.

[JonGorrono]

The belief that you must be an atheist or a theist if you are Buddhist, or otherwise agnostic, is false. In any moment we are one or the other for sure, just as we are all nihilists or eternalists in any given cognitive moment; but there is no Buddhist tenet that one assert one way or the other as a matter of philosophical relevance. To strive to maintain a view that asserts neither is the dynamic of the highest order.

[sam51092]

My thinking was Buddhism was neutral on the God question. As in, you can be a Buddhist still be either a theist or an atheist. Kind of like how you can be a psychologist or a grocer and still either be theist or atheist.

Of course, if you're defining God as 'the universe' then everyone's a theist. Personally I don't define God as being 'the universe' or 'emptiness' any more than I'd define God as a can of coke. Just say 'universe' and 'emptiness'!

[PhysicsCardiology]

When someone is calling the Universe god, they think that the Universe is truly god.

[sam51092]

When they think the universe itself is a conscious super-being, it's called panentheism. When the word 'god' is just used as a metaphor for the universe, it's called pantheism. Pantheism is just atheism in disguise, and it was this I was referring to.

[PhysicsCardiology]

I know you were referring to pantheism; however, you are still incorrect. Pantheism is the belief that god is the Universe itself. This means that God/Universe might had send us for a reason, which as well shows us the truth and guide us. Pantheism has more deeper thought than you think.

[sam51092]

Please define your terms. When you say god is the universe, are you saying that the universe is actually a conscious being with a will, or are you just using the word 'god' as another name for the universe?

In any case, these sorts of semantic debates are boring. I'll just say I was talking about those who use the word god as a metaphor for the universe, and let you decide what you want to call that. Deal?

[PhysicsCardiology]

You don't seem that you are talking about Physiological Pantheism, not Pantheism itself. There are different forms of Pantheism, like the one I said, where the Universe itself is god. Saying that the conscious is the Universe itself.

[shanoxilt]

@sam51092

Actually, panentheism is a theism wherein all reality is contained within its consciousness. It is a daydreaming god.

Pantheism is a theism wherein everything is part of a Whole. Some pantheists think this Whole is conscious. Some do not.

[sam51092]

@shanoxilt Yes.

[jonathanshearman]

Spot on. I agree entirely with this interpretation. Although note the reference to pantheism.

[dichotomyofone]

The problem here is the language, not the conceptual beliefs. Buddhists do not recognize nor worship any god. To say they give mention to the powers of the universe is similar to saying that universe is god is a bit of a stretch.

[vibrantlight1103]

thats assuming that youre stuck on a certain idea of god. in zen buddhism there is the idea of sunyata which is often translated as emptiness. in reality, sunyata is god. sunyata is emptines, emptiness is form, form is god, emptiness is god.

[cambob76]

I am not first. This sentence is false. That sentence is true.