John Piper - Christians: Why Aren't We More Bold?

[phillycj268]

You have yet to give specific reasons as to why you made your comment. I could have guessed most of that through inference because I am a normal human being.

[phillycj268]

Yea, both. Just curious as to your reasons why you said that.

[UrukEngineer]

@phillycj268 OK,

1) It was an intentional pun, the inference being that Piper is filled with something that is usually described by an earthy anglo-saxon word. However this belies a deeper inference, which could be taken as religious zealotism. By keeping the definition open-ended and deliberately ambiguous it was my intent to present a sceptical summation of my interpretation of Piper's worldview - humorously.

[UrukEngineer]

@phillycj268 2) As for why I made the statement. I followed a link on a previous Piper video and found this one. I am reasonably familiar with Piper's videos and have seen him describe his views on a number of topics; homosexuality, equal status for women, other religions and Atheism based on evidence not faith. If I were to choose one word to describe my thoughts on his worldview, it would be the same word that my ambiguous statement inferred.

[111byfaith111]

All, every time the new testament uses the word baptism, look it up in the Greek and definitely use a bible dictionary and thesaurus. when you discover the actual word used apply it to the context of the scripture your reading and tell us what you find. this helps....! hint the Greek had multiple uses for baptism in the new testament.

[joehorner6670]

I challenge anyone to show where the bible it says that if you don't speak in tongues you have not been baptized in the Spirit. It does not. I am filled, baptized in the Spirit everyday.

[lucy9359]

if he knows the book of acts does he understand that you don't have the holy spirit without being baptized in him...it is to bad you couldn't get guys like this filled with the holy spirit but you can't because they think they are already because they down play the infilling of the holy ghost to having recieved him when born again...that is true but doesn't mean there is no baptism by fire there is and if you don't pray in tongues you never recieved it! The bible shows this over and over again..

[UrukEngineer]

Hmm, Piper is filled with something all right, but it sure ain't the holy spirit.

[nndlchModi]

@UrukEngineer you really made me laugh.

[UrukEngineer]

@nndlchModi Va multumesc

[phillycj268]

@UrukEngineer Care to explain?

[UrukEngineer]

@phillycj268 Are you asking for an explanation of the statement in its literal sence i.e. what IS Piper filled with?

Or are you asking me why I made the statement?

[UrukEngineer]

@phillycj268 I hope that helps.

Peace

[Oneaudience]

@ilikezappa I was saying the water is a metaphor for the gospel, the Bible uses metaphors but I was also saying it does have literal, historic claims, there's a difference. Second, if God created all things, he owns all things, if he is good, he will destroy evil at just the right time and when people become fully evil, they risk God's justified coming wrath, against evil on them. Joshua 10:13 was a unique situation wherein God chose to implement his wrath and plan through his people

[ilikezappa]

I dont know , I think you are quite bold to stand up in front of all the Nobel Prize winning scientists and tell them that you know better , because Jesus told you.

That takes a special kind of arrogance .

[wheresmylife]

@ilikezappa: Your post is mostly true but you're mistaking love for arrogance. What good is ANYONE'S knowledge if they die w/o Jesus and go to hell? Yes, it's bold trying to warn people that this life is a vapor and eternity is forever. Especially when they hate and rage against you. But we do it because your soul is of greater value than any knowledge. If we didn't try to warn you of this and you learned the truth when it was too late, we'd be monsters? Seek God while He may be found.

[ilikezappa]

No hatred or rage in my post. I have some good friends who are Christian , but I am convinced that you establish truth by considering evidence. The evidence you propose that backs up your claim that I will be judged by an invisible spirit , according to a bronze age moral code ,after I die is not very good.

In other words , your warning has no credibility.

[wheresmylife]

The rage and hatred I mentioned are in general. There's plenty of evidence of that against Christianity today. My warning does have credibility. Millions of people HAVE experienced God personally. It's no different than scientific evidence that's not been experienced by everyone. Science has been wrong many, many times and scientists are often in contradiction of each other's findings. Much of science, undeniably, has political agendas. That can't be denied. (Recent climate change reports.)

[ilikezappa]

@wheresmylife

Personal revelation is not the same as scientific evidence , and is not very reliable. Plenty of people will tell you that Allah revealed himself to them . ( or Elvis)

Of course science has been wrong many times. All it can do is model the best theory based on the evidence. It has a better success rate than the Bible though , which has been wrong since it was written (By bronze age people who only just had the wheel )

[ilikezappa]

Cont;

John Piper believes in witchcraft and supernatural spirits that control everything . He does not believe in evolution or DNA . He believes in a global flood that left no geological record , with a boat commanded by an 800 year old man full of dinosaurs . What kind of " warning" from him should I take seriously ? He is a very warm human being and I actually like the guy , but he is clearly bonkers.

[wheresmylife]

Cont;

The problem is that you seem to be purposely avoiding evidence of the Bible and it's truth. There's actually more historically documented evidence of it, and Jesus, than there is that you or I exist. To hear just a little of that evidence, watch the following YouTube video. It will list all the evidence you want, including evidence of the flood. It's called "The Bible is God's Word?! Prove it!" (Mark Kielar)

watch?v=mVQqTML6WBg

[ilikezappa]

I am sorry , I didnt have the patience to sit through Mark Kielar . Would you mind offering me a concise summary of how enough water fell to cover the highest mountain in 40 days , and then disappear without trace leaving no patterns in the geological record to support it.

(That is 30 FEET per hour of rainfall) two inches is a deluge .

PS look up "Bollocks" in the dictionary while you are at it . No offence but that assertion is laughable cretinism.

[wheresmylife]

Was it lack of patience or lack of wanting to hear the evidence? The evidence of the flood exists. What I'll tell you is that when the earth flooded God not only caused it to rain but underground water sources to rose in conjunction with the rainfall. A flood is a deluge by nature. That was the purpose of it. All the evidence is there. If you want to see it, you'll be open-minded to watch the video. If not, then you really don't want to hear the evidence. It's all given and undeniable.

[ilikezappa]

No they didnt . It would be impossible

Any physicist would tell you that . It is just contrived nonsense to suggest that underground water sources could rise 28000 feet in 40 days .

Dont be so willing to affirm your religious beliefs that you accept such rubbish.

[wheresmylife]

Final Thoughts: It's not rubbish or impossible just because you say it is. You're doing what you claim Christians are doing. You're affirming your beliefs based on faulty science, physicists, many who have agendas. This has been proven. And you're refusing to see historical evidence that supports the Bible and it's claims when it's presented to you. It's all right in that video. But you won't watch it because you're clinging to your faith in other's faulty, agenda-ridden findings...

[ilikezappa]

@wheresmylife

We have two possibilities here. 1. There is a giant conspiracy from the whole worlds scientific community to produce a model of the laws of physics which is markedly different to the real laws of physics as claimed by the Bible.

or 2

The bible is wrong .

Now , consider the likelyhood of the first choice being possible , or desirable.

[Cyprian3]

@ilikezappa I'm not sure what laws of physics you mean? Explain using your "model of the laws of physics" how after a big bang some planets rotate opposite others.

[ilikezappa]

@Cyprian3 Something to do with being struck by other bodies during their formation seems plausible . Or did Angels whizz them around for a laugh?

[INDUSTRIAL3X]

@ilikezappa or 3. The Bible is not about the laws of physics at all. It is about deeper truths in symbolic language, that people of that times could understand. After many translations, and political manipulation by the church, they decided to tell people that those things meant other things than the original meanings. So now you read the Genesis and think they believed that's how the laws of physicas are - wrong.

[ilikezappa]

@INDUSTRIAL3X Exactly ; The Bible is metaphor , symbolism and mythology. Not a literal account of creation . Please can someone let John Piper know , before he tries to tell people that a talking serpent persuaded a rib woman to eat an enchanted apple , the stupid bugger.

[Oneaudience]

@ilikezappa couldn't help but counter, the Bible has metaphors, but the Bible is not metaphors. Ex: Jesus said, "Whosoever drinketh of this water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life" (John 4:14). That water, of course, is his Gospel, which is the knowledge of how to "grow" into "everlasting life."

[ilikezappa]

@Oneaudience PS Water representing The Gospel is A METAPHOR. That example of a metaphor is a perfect one. ( Clenches teeth and reaches for Brandy )

[Oneaudience]

@ilikezappa A literal example is when: the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on [a] its enemies Josh. 10:13 The difference between the two is that the 1st is portraying a spiritual filling, the 2nd is describing a specific time, place and event in which God did something, just as with creation. "God said"..."and there was"... It may seem foolish "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men."

[ilikezappa]

@Oneaudience Well , no evidence is available that these unlikely events took place. The moon "Stopping" ? In order that one nation could butcher its enemies ? You will forgive me a little impatience that grown men who ( presumably) went to school would choose to believe this , when it bears all the hallmarks of a FABLE. God was right when he said this would seem like ridiculous bollocks to most people . He can be quite sharp sometimes , when He isn`t acting like an Iron age warlord.

[wheresmylife]

Cont...

All because you don't WANT the Bible to be true. Don't be so willing to affirm your anti-religious beliefs that you reject the truth.

[ilikezappa]

It is true that I dont want the bible to be true , because the Christian God is such a psychopath. I will watch your vid when I can find the patience , but is it very different from the other "Evidence" that religious apologists dredge up , it will probably be the usual bullshit.

[STARNPRODUCTIONS]

wow, lets pray more each day