Buffalo Bore .38 Special 158 gr Semiwadcutter Ammo Test

[Radion561]

To limit penetration with these kinds of loads for those of you worried of overpenetration either get a ligter load or turn these into dum-dum bullets with a cheap knife.

[MrGhostface213]

Nice video shoot a car door with some lead that's a better video

[thegangvault2]

Ah.... just so refreshing to watch your videos. They are like Roman swords, short, sharp, and to the point. I'll probably never own a .38 much less carry one (9mm for me) but I love these videos!

[corax2012]

I use that BB round, but in a +p ... man does that have some snap. As my carry round, I don't worry about it being not up to the task.

[corax2012]

@corax2012 Oh, that's out of a S&W Air Weight snubby ... +p rated.

[main095099]

most of the +p that ive encounterd was less than 158 grain/ typycaly 125 grain./ i had a hard time understanding that for a spell , but then it made sence to me ? / " LESS CAN BE MORE"

[papawx3]

Hope is not a strategy {Obama proved that}. I was surprised that the bullet did'nt expand more. Maybe BB does'nt use a soft enough lead? I have used this type round by Georgia Arms, and got similar results. Went back to tried and true "Green Box". I believe they use a softer lead which is crucial to expansion, even if the cavity gets plugged. I like Remington ammo, use the Golden Sabers too in my snubbie {S&W 642}. Remington lead can't be beat!

[EMTYREE]

PLEASE RETEST WITHOUT THE DENIM THANK YOU

[hogdoc357]

Excellent test! Please consider doing an identical test with the Buffalo Bore Short Barrel Low Flash .38 special (non +P) 150 gr Hard Cast Wad Cutter. Thanks!

[bscottmitchellful]

Where is the +p version of this load????????

[snakemanmike]

What is your recommendation for a defense load for a world war 2 vintage S&W Victory model revolver with a 4 inch barrel? Is it safe to fire +P ammo in one of these?

[breakerbroke23]

I have had good luck with that BB ammo. Good video.

[burgundypoint]

Oooo gas checked...nice!

[sig0]

Still waiting patiently for the +p version of this round to be tested. I'd very much appreciate seeing that.

[DemonVulpes]

I wish you'd either try non-(+P) 158 grain BB in 4 inch barrel or (+P) one in 2 inch!

Any lead HP - Remington, Federal, BB, will expand in bare gel at slightly above 800 velocity but to expand in denim test they need around 1000 fps. Remember the original FBI round was developed for 4 inch service revolvers not for snub-nose ones! I need a home defense ammo for my 5 inch 686 with good stopping power at subsonic speed (I don't want to go deaf!).

158 grain non-p BB looks like a perfect solution.

[Crzclwn]

You should try taking a jewelers saw and cutting some "grooves" on the tip of the bullet. It might help expansion.

[smartguy104]

Soft lead tends to be faster then jacketed bullets in conventional rifled barrels. Elmer Keith loved to shoot unjacketed bullets with gas checks.

[TommyGuns40]

I'll take the old Police Positive load from the 50's anyday over this new era 38 loads. A 158 hard cast SWC at 950 fps ! That's why all the old timers swore by the 38 Special, it was better in the old days ! It was putting out 365 ft-lbs + of energy back then ! They stopped making them because folks were trying to use them in snubbies, a big no-no. They were made for service revolvers. Shortly after, 38 standard was dummed down and the +P loads came out but they don't replicate the old loads.

[zx2man21380]

Could you please test the BB 150 gr. wadcutter 38 spl load? BB says about 14-16" of penetration. But its flat and blunt and should strike hard. Sadly this round did not expand like it should, but in living human tissue, might be different. Also it seems bullets go deeper in gelatin than they do actual tissue, and you got account for bones too, a bullet hitting the sternum will take a lot of energy, 19" on this test does not mean it will go through exactly 19 inches of human tissue.

[hammerogod]

All of us 'Snubby' shooters have worked hard to get our little short barreled handguns to hit what we are aiming at.

1500 practice rounds before I could consistently get 4-5 inch groups at distances beyond 20 yds...and I am a highly experienced shooter....'Snubbys' are just hard to master.

Shame that we can't find a larger variety of ammo that supports guns that average under 1000 fps.

Find me one and I will buy it by the case.

[tnoutdoors9]

@hammerogod

You just summarized the trade-off. Optimum concealment, tons of load options, but finding something that doesn't make the gun jump out of your hand while still providing desired ballistics.

[hammerogod]

At 19 inches the bullet is through the perp, through a wall and into a bedroom.

Penetration is not a factor you look for in a Home Defense round.

I want a round to expand like a pie hitting Moe Howard in the face.

All the energy dumped in the first 4-5 inches.

[slikna99]

Great video as always. I really wish you did 3+ shots into the gel with each ammo type. It would give a better idea of how the ammo performed on average.

[Radion561]

And there is proof that the good old 158gr lswchp does NOT underpenetrate.

[12799MaDeuce]

Velocity too low? Lead alloy too hard? Combo of both?



[tnoutdoors9]

@12799MaDeuce

Bullet design, its sole purpose is to penetrate. More velocity with harder lead alloy and this might have made it to the woods.

[steelcurtain41286]

@tnoutdoors9 First off I want to say your videos are great and very educational, I am currently carrying the winchester pdx1 hollow points in my 38 S&W Body Guard, I saw how the bullets did not open up in both of your tests from your snub nose and was wondering which bullets you would recommend for carry. Thanks again for great videos

[sevensixtwoable]

Great review, i would like to bring up there accuracy as well, they hold tight groups and shoot to point of aim, buffalobore deff. did there homework on this one, instead of designing a whole new fangled bullet they went back to the basics and improved on the old FBI load, these rounds in 38spl for a snubby are as perfect as there ever was, and i would not be caught at all without these shells in my smith36, IMO these are the 38spl standard for CCW or home protection.

[kingd3001]

tn would you recommend those round over the speer gold dots

[kingd3001]

well its safe to say this round was more then likely design for penetration

[austin3161324]

I am looking forward to the +P version test. That is what I have loaded in my 642

[sig0]

@austin3161324 It doesn't look like he is going to do it. I've been checking in every week for 6 months to see if he fulfilled his promise on that.

[subysuby]

thanks for doing the video on non +P .38's my snubby isn't rated for +p

[ZombieTacticalStore]

Awesome video! I guess I would be one of those people you would need 18+ inches of penetration for. :) Then again why would you shoot me unless I were a zombie. then PLEASE SHOOT ME! ZombieTacticalStore(dot)com approves of this video and thanks tnoutdoors9 for his support of our products. :)

[twolf422]

That ammo doesn't impress me at all. But good video anyways, keep 'em coming.

[TheGunfighter45acp]

Nice review. This is a good round in my book. Personally, I'd like a little more bbl length w/this combo if it were me, but this round seems adequate either way.

[xtremearmor]

Great ballistics test. I was surprised at how far the bullet traveled in the gel. Also, I was expecting more expansion from the bullet too. Gee, it sure was warm that night and I know that feels. I sure do enjoy your ballistics tests. Please keep up the great work.

[Migs4000]

I tested their 38 Special Wadcutter. A wrecking bullet with penetration in mind.

Ever think of testing a Glaser Safety Slug in 38 Special?

Obviously your testing methods trump my simple wetpack testing.

I've tested some in 38 Special non +p (Silver) with good results. It passed a heavy clothing test where an 8-ply cotton barrier was used.

Yes they are expensive per bullet but a pack costs less than a box from BB.

[bubba45357dan]

Great videos, I love ballistic testing, will be doing some myself in the future. I must say Hickok45 and your videos are my favorites, keeps me entertained for hours, keep up the good work !!!!!!

[benhaven]

Thanks so much for this test. It's not what I expected based upon similar tests I helped conduct as a LEO (THP) in the 1980s using the original FBI load as provided by Winchester. Like your other subscribers I'm looking forward to seeing the same brand tested in +p and also 4 inch barrels. Just yesterday a fellow retired officer and I were talking about how popular the .38 special remains and in fact it's the first line of lethal defense for our families. Thanks again for your efforts.

[sig0]

First, great video and we are grateful that you make these. That said, I cant comprehend testing this and not the 158 +p. Lot of demand to see that one.

[tnoutdoors9]

@sig0

The 158+P will get done sooner than later. I have a good local source for this ammo.

[anad41775]

@tnoutdoors9 Looking forward to that,recently got a 638,and considering the +p B.B.

[tubevideoguy762]

@tnoutdoors9

how has that 438 been treating you? I've read on forums that the cylinder can get in a bind but maybe that's incorrect like a lot that's on the forums. Do you use it for edc? Is the wide cylinder a problem?

[Mo7Vsta]

you can suspend bones in gell like this, and you can buy like pig bones and stuff i believe, or maybe even like those big dog toy bones

[camarogod93]

I wonder what would happen if you were to put some bones in some simtest.

[mclevaingunnut]

i use to reload 158gr semi wad cutters

[ZOMBIEGUNS]

what would be cool to try is a hollow base wadcutter loaded backwards its what a lot of people loaded as self defence rounds befor the days of hollow points.

[nearlynormal]

Incredible penetration on that 38 Special.

Sure am looking forward to seeing how the BB .380 does.

[TheRifleman336]

Please, please tell me you're going to get the 158gr LSWCHP+P. I'd like to see a vid on both your snub and a full (4" barrel) size duty weapon. :P As for this test this IMHO opinion is a failure under the FBI/DOJ test criteria. Their lead may be a little on the hard side like Winchester's version of the load.

[SRCDLC]

Thanks for doing this test they are always very interesting. I have a Romanian TTC chamber in 7.62x25 and it is my only pistol for home/self defence. Jgsales has wolf JHP and I am concern on over penetration. Would it be to much to ask for a test on this ammo? If you can't. I could understand. thanks man

[Lokpyrite]

@SRCDLC I wouldn't worry about over penetration with that round.

[spence0324]

tnoutdoors9, do you think there is a way that you could simulate bones and then add them into the study? Or is it to random a variable to add and still give a fair assesment of the ammo. I would figure you could simulate bones with dry sticks or some other semi-hard substance.

[ssyoumans]

By way of comparison, the non +P round tested by TNOutdoors9 goes 850fps, the +P version does 979 fps out of my 2" Taurus snubnose at 10'. I wonder if the extra 125 fps would cause more expansion and less penetration. I'd like to see 9-14", not 19".

For now, I'm sticking with the +P version.

[tiggerr42431]

I really like the documentation of variables you are doing. It is good scientific methodology. If this keeps up in Ky, we have folks that are having to go to the emergency room from heat stroke this week from working outdoors. Roofers and pavers must be adapted somewhat. I would use the garage with cooler air too.

[CampfireTalk]

revolver shooting lead wadcutters, should have been wearing a cowboy hat for this one : )

Great video as always

[wcropp1]

Do these rounds generally expand out of snubbies when not plugged with denim, or is the low velocity not enough to expand the bullet? A non-denim test for reference would be interesting, though I know that would be another test added to your long list. Any other testing been done on this round to compare performance?

[fanman71]

Great video. This has always been the debate of this round vs. the 135 grain Speer GD Short Barrel round (The old FBI Load vs. the NYPD Load). It seems that the GD was a better performer in this case.

[gshdrums]

i think its a good load for the wood, with animals, hunting, thats about it.....

[TheMultiGunMan]

★★★★★ 

[mechanisto1832]

Hey you should check out the Buffalo Bore 155 Gr. 40 S&W. It is as hot as a 10mm and it uses Gold Dot hp. Also, what is the best snubby load you have tested??? I am using PDX-1 right now but I think you did a video where they sucked... Thanks....

[tr50n3]

i wonder what would happen if you segment the tip of the hollow point with a razor blade. just curious.

[Jesses001]

@tr50n3 That is getting old school there. That may actually increase expantion. I used to do that a bit with a 30-30 lever action for deer when I could not get better ammo.

[henrycems]

Very nice video just think what it would do with a 4inch bbl. But like you say bone would change things a little. thanks

[gtvigilante]

Another great video!! I will be getting a box of these to try out in my wife's LCR. I think it might be a good carry choice for her, as the recoil seems much milder than most of the other premium defense loads out there. Buffalo Bore is hard to find around here... I wonder if the Outpost ships to East TN :)

[tnoutdoors9]

@gtvigilante

These are a pleasure to shoot, even in that lightweight snubby. I went through the entire box and was concerned about having enough left over for the video!

[quintili1]

Nice test. I hope you test the +P version in the future.

[vassal11]

AWESOME! Lead goes faster than copper- weight for weight. Those that cast their own know that a slightly lighter bullet with even softer lead will expand MUCH more than that one did. My Lyman devestators are 130g and cast of totally soft lead expand to .6"-.65" EVERY TIME (in wet media such as this.)--------- NONE THE LESS ----GREAT TEST AGAIN!

[ICU762]

Nice! Could you test Winchester SXT 124gr +P+ 9mm ? Thanks

[tnoutdoors9]

@ICU762

There is a Winchester 127 gr +P+ on the list, did you mean that one?

[ICU762]

@tnoutdoors9 Yep my bad. Thats the one. Thanks

[phishst1cks]

tnoutdoors9 is your source, he shoots, you decide..

[sdvten]

Another standard pressure .38special round you may want to test out is the Federal Nyclad.

[kvready1]

The Outpost armory is a couple miles from my house, so I've been there several times. Nice place ,but they seem really high on their firearms to me. Good prices on their reloading products though. Great video! Very well done as always.

[Ohmslaw1]

Thanks! I have been wondering about my flat nose 45LC rounds. I may be conducting some tests of my own from my Ruger Vaquero and my Winchester 94.

[72cmcinc]

Impressive results...thanks again!

[millster101]

excellent video. Looking forward to watching more

[mobupknodat139]

took up too much in the last post to finish the comment, will do so here.

while I disagree with your "need" for over penetration( IMHO)

I appreciate the effort you make to present this data, and your other fun videos too. you do an excellent job

[1lzygy]

Thanks for this informative presentation!

[mobupknodat139]

in my opinion 14 much less 19 inches of penetration is way too much on a man sized target for defensive purposes.

optimum, in my opinion ,would be 5 inches penetration after passing through clothing.

I want the bullet to stop INSIDE the assailant and dump the entire energy of the round into his/ her/ whatever body ... this makes for more sure stops

if the bullet exits the body of your target it is much more liable in a public domain to hit a passerby or other innocent in the area.

[Pointblank2U]

This a Failure. Overpenetration and Failure to expand and it's priced as premium ammunition. I bet Nyclad does better.

[pjicleanair420]

BB makes good shit, probably one of the most powerful manufacturers of ammo

[fidel5medina]

I understand how hollow points work but in my state I can't carry hollow points. I would love to see how fmj fair with over penitration and other issues in comparison to hollow point.

[SilentSalvation1995]

Not that I would wanna get shot by anything, but these especially. Wow...

[meandale]

I think I'd rather have better expansion & all the energy expended inside my assailant. but that's just my preference.

[Doc6mm]

Cool that's kinda what I expected, so Tn what do you think is ideal penetration/expansion? Some have commented on this as a good round? Don't we have enough data to show the .355" fmj is not that effective compared to reliably expanding hp's?

[rifleslol]

Look like a good load if you go hiking in the woods, and a short barreled .38 is all you have, but that is too much penetration in my opinion for a defensive carry load. Also, a great test for it entering the block, you can really tell the bullet puts all its energy in penetration, not expanding and depositing that energy in the media; the block hardly moved at all!

[AppalachianFreedom]

That is a wicked looking slug!

[Brandon401401]

Very interesting test. 82 Degrees! where the crap you at? Alaska? lol

[tnoutdoors9]

@Brandon401401

82 at 10 pm.....IN THE GARAGE! It is 101 on the deck as I type this.

[BeppeOwnage]

@Brandon401401 here in finland its 11 degrees

[biguy525]

Nice job.

[midnamechip]

As usual, great test with very good data. Thanks tnoutdoors9.

[YamahaWR200]

Looks like we have a bunch of professional ammo testers here trying to tell Tnoutdoors9 how he needs to do things differently.. Branches for bone?? Come one guys.. He is already so exacting as it is, he isn't gonna go and ruin his test by using pieces of trees as "simulated bone." Nor a "rackof ribs." If anything, he would get bone and actually integrate it into his mold. Just let the man work. If you have any opinions for him, PM him..

[dammitcrap]

thats too much penetration for me. there is no point is saving your own life if they send you to prison for negligent homicide by pegging your neighbor, family member or a bystander in the streets... imo at least.

thanks for the video tn

[husky394xp]

If the bad guy is the size of a Buffalo, these might work pretty well!

[tnoutdoors9]

@husky394xp

Unfortunately, we have alot of bad guys in the South running that size! 14" penetration may not be enough!

[xZarthornx]

@tnoutdoors9 AKA Hickok45

[husky394xp]

@tnoutdoors9 Yeah, but then again the bigger the bad guy, the easier it might be to just run away from them!

[Thecrossbowdude]

14th



[robin6512]

12th

[ArtisanTony]

Cool test, hot weather!

[RainingBlood15]

11TH!

[dphitch]

Nice test results for this round. Impressive out of the little .38spl. If I had a .38 this would be high on the list or rounds I might use. I think a rib cage is going to effect the penetration on any bullet, so to me 12-18" of penetration in gel is a good thing. I really can't imagine this round going all the way through a human chest in any direction, once it hits the back side of the ribcage the energy loss by that time wouldn't allow total penetration.

[hogdoc357]

@dphitch I agree with you! So many others are talking about over penetration, but considering the size of many perps and what can be hit inside the body, I like the penetration ability of this round.

[crbill53]

How about a couple racks of ribs in the test media?

[FantomShooter]

so here is a concept and something to try.........that round in that pistol is rated for 850 FPS.....now try a semi auto hand gun CCI Stinger 22LR that is rated for over 1200 FPS......I would be curious to see what it does in the same test.

[Poppaswine33]

ive never heard of that name brand..looks like good stuff...hey put some ceder tree branches in your mix for a bone simulations...just try it ..i would like to see what it does...

[righyanb]

I got the +p swc-hp loaded in my 38 special. Nice stuff!

[mcrafton89]

Good review thanks for your time.

[pray4chicken]

what if you did the ol' cut an X in to it trick lol....oh and can you tell me where i can get some gel to do my own tests. thanks

[27dcx]

@pray4chicken corbins(dot)com

[DagaYute]

Great job - looks like an impressive round. I would trade some expansion for reliable penetration (12 inches or greater) any day.

[edgybob1]

Another information filled great video!

[dnance1234]

Thank you for your awsome ammo reviews, and this one is no exception. Keep up the good work.