Aftermath of Tristan Anderson's shooting—Part 1 of 3

[baldpatty5150]

Wow, maybe a useless clown/poser like Tristan Anderson could have gone out and got a real job then interjecting himself into other people's busniess (Israel-Palestine).

Oh well Tristan... good luck eating through a straw for the rest of your life, loser!!!!!

[BabyShalome]

Okay I'm 15 From Uk And Willing To Learn I Knew There Was A War Goin On In Iraq But Neather Bothered To Think Why Because Its Nether Shown On T.V But Then I Found A Rapper Call Lowkey And He Raps About Right, Wrong, Respect, Stop Violence And This War And I Now Want To Know What It Is Bout And Try To Understand It. The Only Things I Know Is Its between Israel And Iraq And Been Goin On For Over 25yrs And The Americans Are Involved In It. But What Is It Over And Why Are Americans Involved :]

[xanithkl]

Amazing to read the Israel's supporters comments here. Their morality and humanity (and yes the brain) down to drain. But this is a classic example of how US is helpless by the crime committed by Israel to her own citizen. If this happened in US, the whole country will rebuke and punish the soldier. Well, the last point is amazing too. But the most amazing is Gabrielle - the American Jewish - took the unpopular actions by openly criticizing Israel's wrongdoing! Bravo girl!

[oldstock1607]

No sympathy at all for this clown. What a dipshit. Totally got what he desrved.

[IdotQTube]

@oldstock1607 wtf is wrong with you how did he get what he deserved so somone deserves to be hurt like that or even possibly die..that what people "deserve" when they peacfully protest against the way the world being run...well dont worry soon enough the worlds going to change and you will become a puppet to certain organisations and you will understand why people tried to fight against it..IDIOT..what would you say if it was somone you cared about i guessed theyd deserve it

[oldstock1607]

@IdotQTube he went to a place he DIDN'T belong, with the arrogant attitude like HE's gonna settle a conflict that's been going of for 4,000 years..... This didn't have as much to do with this dumbass caring about the "way the world is being run" as it did him being a little trust-fund cunt who has a misguided leftist agenda and a punk-ass attitude to boot. If you go to Israel and act like a fucking clown, you deserve to get shot in the face

[IdotQTube]

@oldstock1607 "derserve" is the wrong word to use then..yeah its a shame and he possibly put himself in that situation but someone derwrvin g to die..hmmm

[oldstock1607]

@IdotQTube ...and he's from California. BIG SURPRISE there. He's a douche, I assure you, if you met him in person he'd rub you the wrong way with his bitch-ass cali-cunt self-righteousness

[kerimil]

@oldstock1607

Hi! have you ever seen a Muslim in person ??.................. No ? Well then get back to you house ASAP and have a look at the guy who is fuc#### your wife right now

[oldstock1607]

@kerimil (sound of applause) whew! wow!. that comment was just,...just....so fucking unoriginal I can't even believe it. Hey muslims throughout the world....when you want to insult us, is it EVEN POSSIBLE for you to not say something about a muslim fucking our wives, daughters, sisters or mothers? I don't think you guys can do it. I realize that in your "culture" that that kind of talk is a real "burn," but to us, it's just fucking laughable. ps. I don't have a wife, you cunt-faced sand monkey

[kerimil]

@oldstock1607

yeah that's why there are just a few of them (less than a hundred) in the UK, USA and the rest of civilised countries... right ?? :-D damn you can't even take care of blacks so I guess it is not surprising

ohh and BTW I am not a muslim... In fact I am more white than you are, cuz probably your grand grand grand mother was fucked a bunch of black slaves or something

[OletBrasiliasta]

well now i hope Tristan is fine and tell ppl back in america in the holy land there is NO god....

[warpedcomedy]

If Israelis are so bad, then why is he being treated in an ISRAELI hospital?

[fhartha]

@warpedcomedy It never ceases to amaze me how people can use the ethics of doctors to justify the despicable acts of brutality committed by the governments those doctors happen to work under. Such is Israeli hasbara.

[marzutraII]

@fhartha Yes, but the Israeli government is paying the medical bill for this punk.

[fhartha]

@marzutraII Whose point are you trying to make? What sort of insane world do you live in where you can shoot someone in the head and not AT LEAST pay their medical expenses?  I don't know who you're trolling for, but if you're trying to improve Israel's image with comments like this, I can assure you, you're failing miserably.

[marzutraII]

@fhartha Any injuries that he incurred are his own liability. He chose to join a violent protest, he should pay for the medical costs.

[fhartha]

@marzutraII I don't know who you think you're convincing, but it's not anyone with half a brain, a third of the facts or a bit of a heart.

[kerimil]

@marzutraII

you don't even have tell me that you are a Jew... World would be a better place if all of you had ended up in the stratosphere

[IRAQ4EVER95]

@warpedcomedy if the israelis are so good, why did they shoot hin in the face?

[warpedcomedy]

@IRAQ4EVER95 Anderson was hit in the face not on purpose, but by a stray tear gas canister fired by Israeli troops who were simply trying to disperse the demonstration.

[TvPub15]

@warpedcomedy cuz IT'S AN OBLIGATION ;)

[carlosfangio]

@warpedcomedy and if arabs are so bad, why do they risk their lives to save an american wounded by israelis?

[warpedcomedy]

@carlosfangio They were not "risking their lives", Israeli Police were using tear gas. Last time I checked, it wasn't a poison gas.

[BossyProductions]

@warpedcomedy What your saying here is that if i shoot you and the give you treatment using my money I would no longer be a criminal. FOOL

[warpedcomedy]

@BossyProductions No, I'm saying that if Israel meant to harm him, why would it then treat him and pay the medical bill? The fact is, this little punk took part in stone-throwing and rioting, and got hurt as a result. He deserved what he got.

[BossyProductions]

@warpedcomedy Okay so I will shoot you, put you in a deadly state, then pay for your treatment, and this means I dont mean harm? I dont know what world I live in when shooting someone and putting them in a deadly state is not meaning harm. Also he was peacefully protesting not rioting. Yet again i dont know what world i live in anymore whem peacefully protesting meas rioting to some.

[warpedcomedy]

@BossyProductions Hey, all I'm saying is that Tristian Anderson was part of a violent mob, and the Israel Border Police fired tear gas that was meant to make them run away. One canister ACCIDENTALLY hit him in the face. You think that anyone can aim a bulky tear gas launcher accurate enough to hit him in the face on purpose?

[BossyProductions]

@warpedcomedy Even though this was not a accident, lets say it was. If israel was really a democracy they would allow for peaceful protesters and not even try and drive them off with tear gas and that way this 'accident' would never have happened.

[warpedcomedy]

@BossyProductions How do you know this was a 'peaceful protest' and not your typical stone-throwing Muslim mob?

[BossyProductions]

@warpedcomedy Not only have I learned that you are completely uneducated about this story but ive learnt your also a big stereotypical racist. Let me go with what your saying again...presume they where stone throwing. Is tristan anderson a muslim to be part of this muslim mob? I didnt think so. Again ill go with what your saying. Lets say he was a muslim. Is using gas canisters a fair response to people using stones? Are stones and gas canisters weapons of the same calibre?

[brentrobertherrick]

when you loose to a oponent in war,, you don't try to fight again, and again and again...loose, loose, loose unless your arab,, leave thier country , leave them alone and, they will leave you alone..

[1legerdemain1]

Not really expecting an apology from Israel. Just another cover up... No news here, major media: we know the game.

[69serfer]

Zionism = Racism.

[3rdIDCallaghan]

Nationalism/Patriotism = Racism.

[marzutraII]

Racism against hippies?

[69serfer]

Zionism is a way/means of racism against non-jews...

[saadasim]

We are still waiting for Israel's inquiry and report to the American ambassador. When will Israel do that?

Zionism Means Never Saying You're Sorry

henrymakow!com/anti-semitism_m­eans_never_havi!html

[Craig805]

Tristan Anderson: another pawn of the Arab terrorist regime that destroys lives on both sides.

[metalic699]

what a dumb douchbag .. thats what he gets for getting involved with shit he has no business with.. if he had any balls he should have been in darfur protesting.. he thought he was safe because he knew the israelis restrain themselves more than anyone on the plant.. i guess god had other plans for him

[cymer00]

Palestinians shouldnt even bother with non-violent demonstrations anymore...Israel will just come and brutally suppress them. Last week these Israelis badly injured an American peace activist the same way--he will never come out of his coma. Hard to believe these Israelis have learned nothing from the Nazi Holocaust.

[kerimil]

@cymer00

LOL they did learn.. they were sitting there and making notes on hot to organise a large scale genocide...

I wouldn't be surprised if they had real concentration camps hidden somewhere in the dessert

anyway you are right, there should be more attacks on Israelis and Israeli companies, etc. all over the world... let's make it happend

[liquidassed]

Anyone know his current condition? Are they going to pull the plug on him or is he going to be a vegetable?

[rptatbud]

I can't help but to laugh about this

First: it was Friday the 13th

Second: out all of the possible "victims" it had to be a "peace loving" American who voluntarily put himself/contributed to violent situation

And lastly, out of all the possible injuries it has to be a tear gas CANISTER that nailed him in HEAD out of all places.

To add "insult to injury" it is Israeli hospital that is saving his life due to their excellent medical treatment.

I think G-d was trying to tell that guy something.

[fhartha]

"G-d" didn't have anything to do with it. "G-d" didn't shoot him with a BULLET in his HEAD. That would be an IOF soldier that did that. But, you apparently have the decency to recognize it as a brutal, inhumane act if you feel the need to shift responsibility by imputing it to chance or divine will. Doesn't speak well to your G-d's ethics, though.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

""G-d" didn't have anything to do with it. "G-d" didn't shoot him with a BULLET in his HEAD."

Read the news. It was a canister from tear gas, not a bullet.

Secondly, with you "IOF", I assume you mean IDF? Since when using tear gas for crowd control is inhumane?

Finally, please reserve your insults for someone who's in support of violence and inciting riots as a way of "achieving freedom." That's where they should rightfully be targeted.

[fhartha]

"Read the news. It was a canister from tear gas, not a bullet." Read "the canister" itself. It says "Bullet" on it. I trust the label of the manufacturer over newsspeak.

By IOF, I mean Israeli Occupation Forces. "Defence" leaves unquestioned what these forces are "defending", which is, ultimately, occupation.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

"Read "the canister" itself. It says "Bullet" on it. I trust the label of the manufacturer over newsspeak."

It's a canister that nailed protester in a head. It was a freak accident. Stop trying to make something more of it than it is, silly.

[fhartha]

It's not a freak accident that an IOF soldier shot a weapon like this directly into a yard of a mosque in the village (not near the fence) and at head level. That it hit Tristan in particular in the head rather than any of the number of other people who were milling about (not throwing stones), that is perhaps a matter of chance, but it by no means absolves that soldier or the IOF of responsibility.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

Must be some mad targeting skills then for a tear gas canister to intentionally hit an American moving alleged "target" in a head. Are you familiar with launching procedures? I suspect not, otherwise you would not be making such ridiculous allegations.

What ever the outcome, despite Tristan's anti-Israel action, he received transportation and life-saving help by the Israelis.

Let this be a lesson: violence is never the answer. Own up to consequences and stop blaming someone else.

[fhartha]

"violence is never the answer. Own up to consequences and stop blaming someone else." My sentiments exactly. Which is why I'm on the side of the guy holding a camera, not the guy who's shooting potentially deadly weapons (which as you mention CAN'T be aimed with any certainty) into crowds of people at head-level.

[fhartha]

When is using tear gas for crowd control inhumane? Well, among others, when the tear gas is delivered by a high-velocity, silent BULLET.

I suppose the appropriate way to "achieve freedom" is to mobilize the violence of a massive modern army against a few stone-throwing youths and ethnically cleanse millions off of lands they've lived on for many generations? Are you trying to tell me that way of "achieving freedom" is beyond reproach? I call that the behavior of a psychopath.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

I can see that you have no better option rather than reserve to insults to make your point. However, you must understand that no group of people will be rewarded with a country for waging an aggressive war. The sooner Palestinians will renounce violence and turn to peace process and negotiations, the sooner they can have a country.

By the way: when you say "I call that the behavior of a psychopath." did you mean yourself?

[fhartha]

"you must understand that no group of people will be rewarded with a country for waging an aggressive war." You're joking, right. That is, in fact, how it usually works. It worked for Israel, for instance. Nevertheless, this is a struggle against occupation, not a war of aggression.

Why should Palestinians renounce violence (as if the vast majority already haven't) when Israel, and the vast majority of its population, has no intention to?

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

"Why should Palestinians renounce violence (as if the vast majority already haven't) when Israel, and the vast majority of its population, has no intention to?"

Israel's response are actions of defense. It's existence is justified historically and morally, but above all by international law. Palestinians should renounce violence so that they can demonstrate to Israel and the World that they can legitimately govern a Nation. If they want peace in the region, they must stop the war

[fhartha]

Oh, NOW a supporter of Israel is concerned with international law, in the one instance, unlike tens of others, where it is on Israel's side. And somehow it is incumbent upon Palestinians to demonstrate legitimacy, while Israel need only claim it, all demonstrative evidence to the contrary.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

"Oh, NOW a supporter of Israel is concerned with international law, in the one instance, unlike tens of others, where it is on Israel's side."

Thanks, that was funny (:

But yes, there were many instances where Palestinians were offered a viable state and peace. Each one was met with utmost violence and rejection. Renouncing terrorism, attacks and disorder is the only thing they haven't tried. Maybe it's about time they should and their lives and dignity can be preserved as such.

[fhartha]

"By the way: when you say "I call that the behavior of a psychopath." did you mean yourself?" Do try to make some sense. I called the mobilization of the violence of a modern army against a few stone-throwing youths psychopathic. Do I sound like I'm referring to myself? Unless you're currently serving in the IOF, I wasn't referring to you, either, so stop whining about "insults."

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

"I called the mobilization of the violence of a modern army against a few stone-throwing youths psychopathic"

So nice of you to make them look like victims. What civilized countrymen reserve to throwing stones to make a point?  If they behave like savages, don't complain about actions that are taken to bring order and end violence.

[fhartha]

What civilized countrymen resort to bombing schools, hospitals, mosques, private homes and fishing boats to make a point?

[rptatbud]

fhartha

"What civilized countrymen resort to bombing schools, hospitals, mosques, private homes and fishing boats to make a point?"

You didn't reply to me directly so I missed that comment. However, read recent UN statement. The schools were NOT bombed, it was a false report and some news networks (e.g.BBC) posted disclaimers

Secondly only areas used for storage of ammunition or training camps (in/near schools) were targeted. So, I ask in turn, what civilized countrymen use human shields?

[rptatbud]

"In February 2009, the United Nations said that a clerical error had led it to report that Israeli mortars had struck a UN-run school in Jabaliya, Gaza, on 6 January killing about 40 people. [...]. He said that the UN "would like to clarify that the shelling and all of the fatalities took place outside and not inside the school"

source:

news(.)bbc(.)co(.)uk/2/hi/midd­le_east/7823204(.)stm <--remove parenthesis

[fhartha]

Gimme a break, I present you with a whole list civilian infrastructure bombed by Israel and all you can come back with is "actually, it turns out the shells fell OUTSIDE that one UNRWA school." The 43 people killed and over 100 injured by that shelling don't become any less dead or maimed due to a technicality, and neither does it absolve Israel of responsibility. Even Israel doesn't claim that there were training camps or ammunition caches there. As a propagandist, you need to be on message.

[rptatbud]

fhartha

"I present you with a whole list civilian infrastructure bombed by Israel"

Actually you provided a list of civil infrastructure used to shield terrorist and hide weapons. The UN School incident is important to highlight because it was portrayed in the media as a deadliest attack

That's the terrorist definition of combatant. They hide and operate among civilians. Read recent IDF report official casualty numbers. Can Hamas be forgiven for putting innocent people in a line of fire?

[fhartha]

Even if we actually believe this already-dubious line that civil infrastructure was being used to shield terrorism, it is nevertheless against international law and human decency to bomb places like hospitals, schools and places of worship. Gaza militants do not "hide" among civilians. They operate, by nature of the fact that they can't leave, in one of the most densely populated places on the planet—a place made so dense, it bears repeating, due to Israel's dislocation of indigenous Arabs.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

Your excuse for terrorists using human shields is that they live in densely populated areas? So that's why they fire bombs from mosques and hide tunnel entrances under children's beds?

Hamas had already made a fair game out of Ashkelon and Sherrod civil populations by daily Kassam bombings deliberately targeting civilian population. That is another violation of international law. It is not against international law however to attack military target and encounter collateral damage.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

"Even if we actually believe this already-dubious line that civil infrastructure was being used to shield terrorism,"

No one is forcing you to believe anything. These are well documented facts with well documented proofs.

On the other hand, I can also easily argued that majority of civil population is directly responsible for the conflict as Hamas is merely fulfilling promises they've made to their voters. It is community that praises martyrs and sends toddlers to military camps.

[fhartha]

If you're going to go that direction, it's worthy of note that the vast majority of Palestinians already support non-violent resistance over armed struggle. At most a quarter of the population supports Hamas. Meanwhile, over half of Israel voted for hard-line parties who refuse to recognize Palestine's right to exist, support continued settlement in the West Bank and advocate the murder of thousands of innocents in a failed attempt to stop armed resistance.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

"refuse to recognize Palestine's right to exist"

Actually, it's the other way around. Both Hamas and Fatah charters call for destruction of Israel. Israel (and the rest of the world) want to see a viable Palestinian state. There are numerous peace offers to prove that. Name me one peace offer by the Palestinians.

There are no settlements in Gaza, not even a single Jew since 2005, and yet look at the terrorist activity.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

"half of Israel voted for hard-line parties who refuse to recognize Palestine's right to exist"

Again, false "statistic"

After nearly 100 years of aggressive war by Palestinians I'm not surprised Israelis voted for more (broadcast's favorite term) "hawkish" representatives. Yet, even Lieberman is pro-Palestinian state.

[fhartha]

They can say they want to see a viable Palestinian state all they want (and this is far from what many in the Knesset say they want), but the continued building of settlements and siege on Gaza makes that impossible. Even if settlement construction was to stop now, a viable Palestinian state would be impossible.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

"Even if settlement construction was to stop now, a viable Palestinian state would be impossible."

That is an opinion that I cannot agree with. First and foremost, during Camp David/Taba negotiation Israel offered to dismantle all settlements (and offering virtually everything else that Palestinians have demanded), and yet there was 2nd intifada. Secondly, how is it fair to expel all Jewish presence from towns such as Hebron with its religious significance of nearly 4 millenniums?

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

"siege on Gaza makes that impossible"

If you recall in recent years there were no blockades or checkpoints. These measures were instated couple of years ago to battle terrorism. As a matter in fact today is yet another anniversary of a suicide bombing in Jerusalem. Strong measures, but they save lives. And Israeli life (Arab or Jewish) has value

Answer is simple: renounce violence, form a unity government, negotiate for peace. In Israel's history there's a precedent of that already

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

"As a propagandist, you need to be on message "

The thing about propaganda is that it can be disproved by facts. What I had posted here are indeed facts, and there are simple ways of verifying them. It just takes a little bit of effort and time & probably contradicts the culture of mindset that allows you to degrade/demonize a country that is merely acting in self defense.

Had the actions not been a response to militants, you might have a point. But that certainly is not the case.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

And further about propaganda, just to make a point. You said: "43 people killed and over 100 injured by that shelling don't become any less dead or maimed due to a technicality" [in Jabaliya], what your source?

Casualties were result of retaliatory fire

video: watch?v=zmXXUOs27lI

One may ask, what are rocket launchers doing hiding and firing from schools and their grounds?

Now UN casualty estimates are slightly different. Who is your source for those numbers? A name? A link?

[fhartha]

Uhh, that video is from 2007. If Israel is so very certain of the justifiability of these attacks on schools, hospitals, etc., why aren't we seeing footage from the actual conflict, not from almost two years ago? I don't spend all my time trolling on YouTube, so I don't know how to post the link. Enter the search "unrwa school bombing gaza retraction" on Google and it's the first non-YouTube link.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

That video was an example of the common practice caught on camera. You're correct in noting it is not from the day of the attack. It further demonstrates the restraint that Israel has practiced trying though negotiations achieve a cease fire. That defensive action was years in the making. Where diplomacy and threats have failed, military operation was the only option left.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

I goggled your source. Here's the exert from the transcript

"this UN official himself, has admitted that no-one was killed at the school. That Israeli fire did not hit the school and ***that Hamas fire has come from close to the school and Israel had returned fire to those Hamas positions."****

>emphasis added

that certanly contradicts your claim "but that there were "militants" in the area, which UNWRA categorically denies"

I messaged you the link, as youT doesn't let me post it

[fhartha]

As far as I've been able to discern there is no substantial disagreement over the number of deaths, only who they were. There may have been a militant among them, which brings us back to the Israel's collective psychosis, the deaths of 42 innocents is justified by the killing of one militant.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

"the deaths of 42 innocents is justified by the killing of one militant. "

again, false statistic. Death of innocent people is regrettable, and all efforts were made to avoid such casualties. For example, announcements were made over TV & radio broadcasts, hundreds of thousands leaflets dropped to announce planned targets, and finally EVEN direct phone calls to residents to evacuate.

In the history of modern warfare, which other country took such measures during the conflict?

[fhartha]

As far as I know, Israel isn't claiming there were training camps or weapons caches at the school (or perhaps their story has changed again?), but that there were "militants" in the area, which UNWRA categorically denies.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

"but that there were "militants" in the area, which UNWRA categorically denies." SOURCE?

Also, I asked you to name me ONE ARAB country (note, I'm not even asking for Muslim majority country, and you still have a few dozen to pick from) that has Jewish population about the same as Arab population in Israel.

I looked in your profile, and it says you're from Egypt. Have you ever walked through Jewish quarter that is now a ghost town? And it's Israel that's oppressing Arabs?

[fhartha]

Listen. My good Joel Beinin wrote the book "The Dispersion of Egyptian Jewry", so I know what you're talking about. Don't try to make me an apologist for authoritarian Arab regimes. You can look at my blog (also on my profile) and see that, until quite recently, I've devoted a great deal more space to criticizing Egypt than Israel. Don't try to change the subject. I agree with you 100% about Arab governments' treatment of Jews. The fact of Israeli occupation and apartheid remains.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

"Don't try to make me an apologist for authoritarian Arab regimes."

I'm not, nor my statement is an attack on your heritage. If they were perceived as such, my utmost apologies and assurance it was not meant as such. I was merely attempting to demonstrate that "ethnic cleansing" claim has no room when it comes to policies of Israel vs history in the region towards cleansing practices.

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

"I agree with you 100% about Arab governments' treatment of Jews. The fact of Israeli occupation and apartheid remains. "

What I still cannot understand is that you knowing the facts of expulsion of Jews of Arab/Islamic countries somehow accuse Israel of being an "apartheid" state. Is it that you're unaware of the definition of the term or despite all historical facts unwilling to recognize that even if your claims were true they pail in comparison to Arab practice

[harmlesstree]

"people will be rewarded with a country for waging an aggressive war

LOL! Are you Joking? This is precisely how the Zionists were rewarded with a state. The Zionists conquered Palestine via an aggressive war against the indigenous population. This war culminated in the ethnic cleansing of much of that population - followed by, years later, the occupation of the rest of that population.

Palestinians can, as long as their status remains as it is, never be viewed as aggressors.

[rptatbud]

harmlesstree:

Zionists were not rewarded with a state. Birth of Israel is validation of Jewish historical and moral right. For your information, during the time that plans for partition to accommodate a Jewish state were created (and by the way violently opposed by the Arabs) many new countries emerged: Turkey, Armenia, Iran, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Syria, Jordan.

[harmlesstree]

Jews, by any modern standard of justice, had no moral or historical claims to Palestine. The principle that lies behind this contention is absurd. Primarily because, if it were universalized, the application of this principle would lead to war and violence. Imagine if every earthly tribe had a legitimate claim to their historical homeland: American belongs to the Indians, England to the Welsh, Guatemala to the Mayans etc.

Israel, like most nations, has no right to exist apart from its reality.

[rptatbud]

harmlesstree:

I'm not sure what "modern standard" you're referring to (a reference would be a plus), but unlike colonization of America, Jewish population is endogenous to Palestinian land. You probably are not aware that Jewish presence dates there to nearly 4 millenia. On the other hand, your "conclusion" that establishment of National home for an ethnic group causes wars is questionable at best. Arab Palestinians are not interested in peace, they're more interested in destroying Israel.

[harmlesstree]

By "modern standard" I simply mean what the preponderance of people would consider just and unjust with respect to such claims. For instance, if a group of Welsh nationalists were to claim ownership of English lands, while attempting to justify this claim by their historical connection to England, the majority of people would contend that this claim was invalid. And if the Welsh were to attempt to act upon this claim, using various means - including violence, people would consider this unjust.

[rptatbud]

harmlesstree:

While the argument you present holds for some situations, it does not in the history of Arab-Israeli conflict. As early as 1937 Peel commission, Jews have agreed on separation of the state lines. It was favorable to Arabs as it took into account population distribution even despite the fact that they fought on Ottoman side in WWI. Even as early as then they have declared that "Jews should be thrown in a sea". It is not about fairness, it is about rejection of anything Dhimmi.

[harmlesstree]

The Christians were Dhimmis, and they were of the first anti Zionists, and still are. The Palestinian struggle against Israel is/was primarily nationalistic - not Islamic. It is this nationalism that is the primary enemy of Israel -now, and in the past. Islam is just the latest bogeyman trotted out by Israel and the United States. It does not matter whether or Not Peel or the U.N. took the Arabs into account. They had no authority to decide the fate of the Palestinians, by modern standards.

[rptatbud]

harmlesstree

"The Christians were Dhimmis"

Roughly speaking Dhimmi is any non-Muslim. For example, as early as IX century Jews were made wear a yellow badge (borrowed by Nazi Germany) to signal their inferior status amongst other things. These historical facts however, can be easily found and verified.

"They had no authority to decide the fate of the Palestinians" that statement further implicates you of not knowing historical facts. Lands were divided based on mandates rendered by WWI victory

[rptatbud]

harmlesstree:

"The Palestinian struggle against Israel is/was primarily nationalistic" It is true that Arab Nationalist movement is born only as militant resistance to establishment of Israel. For example, during near 20 year occupation of Gaza by Egypt and W.Bank by Jordan, the occupiers were not challenged, yet terrorist attacks were carried out on the state of Israel. The extend of these activities is actually responsible for neither one of them wanting annexation those territories.

[harmlesstree]

Do you really think it is surprising, given human nature, that the Palestinians and Arabs rejected the partition of their homeland, where one part was to be given a group of foreign colonists, and the land of their ethnic brothers respectively. Do you honestly believe that any tribe or group of people on this planet would accept this?

[rptatbud]

harmlesstree

There's couple of flaws in your argument. First & foremost, Jews were not seeking an exclusive Jewish home, the land is and was always shared with Arabs. There's 20% population to attest to this fact. Jordan for example, is 2/3 Palestinian AND has constitutional clause forbidding Jews from citizenship.

Secondly, they're not "foreign colonists" as we had already discussed:Jewish population is endogenous.

Thirdly, existence of Israel is a matter of INTERNATIONAL law, not opinion

[harmlesstree]

They were seeking a Jewish state - that is a state with overwhelming majority of Jews. This was bound to lead to a second class citizenship for the Palestinians, those that were not expelled from their homeland, who remained, given the racist attitude many of the Zionists had towards the natives, just like all imperialists have towards the natives. These attitudes were no doubt exacerbated by the violence amid the two peoples - an inevitable result of colonization, however.

[rptatbud]

harmlesstree

"state with overwhelming majority of Jews." Israel has and maintains Jewish character. That was its purpose. It became a home not only to Diaspora Jews, but also hundreds of thousands that were expelled from Arab countries. To this day, many of those Nations ban all Jewish presence that resided there for millenniums.

Comparing Zionism to Imperialism is historically incorrect. They are two entirely different movements w/different goals. Name me one Jewish friendly Arab country.

[rptatbud]

harmlesstree:

Palestinian refugee is not necessarily endogenous to the land. Confirm with UNRWA website: anyone living in the region for 2 yrs before the conflict counts as a refugee (besides the fact that technically they should be IDPs, not refugees as they remained on the same territory).

Your ethnic cleansing claims are unfounded. 20% of Israel's citizens are Arab, they serve on all levels of gov't and Arabic is also nat'l language along w/Hebrew. Choose your words carefully.

[fhartha]

We are being careful with our words. Arabs are perpetually in the opposition in the Knesset, so they are necessarily excluded from higher offices. As I'm sure you're aware, the right of Arabs to hold office was even called into question before the last election, so their position in Israeli society is always tenuous. Also, while 20% sounds like a decent number, how 'bout the 85% who were ejected from Israel in '48, not to mention all those forced out since then? That's ethnic cleansing.

[rptatbud]

fartha:

Arabs do form opposition in the government. They also don't serve in the army, and do not volunteer for community service. There are also Palestinian doctors, lawyers, etc..

Name me ONE Arab country with 20% (or close) Jews as citizens and beneficiaries of the democratic system. Let's compare side by side what the living conditions actually are. Do you know of such Arab country?

[fhartha]

I would agree that Arab countries should be held accountable for their roles in displacing Jews from their previous homes in those countries. However, it should be noted that this happened for two reasons: 1) because Israel, in erecting an explicitly Jewish state on a majority Arab territory created blowback for Jews everywhere in the Arab world and, more importantly, 2) because they ENCOURAGED immigration to Israel so that they would conceivably have enough bodies to win the demographic war.

[rptatbud]

fhartha

"I would agree that Arab countries should be held accountable for their roles in displacing Jews"

If by displacing you mean mass murdering, hangings &airlifting Jewish communities to ban them from Arab territories then there's a lot more history research must be done on your part. So many Jews were forcefully displaced that it could be easily argued Palestinian "refugee" is exchange of population. Israel is composed of Arabs, indigenous, diaspora & abt 50% Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews

[fhartha]

BTW, I believe the word you're looking for is "indigenous".

[rptatbud]

fhartha:

"BTW, I believe the word you're looking for is "indigenous"."

True. Thanks!

[undeadpresident]

The state of Israel really should be wiped off the map. How can they accuse muslims of religious extremism when Israel is the only country in the world where you can become a citizen because you are a Jew? It's fucking bullshit.

[something2]

That is what you get for standing in our way, bitch! Let it be a lesson for all of those hippies who think they are the saviors of the planet!

[4aaaaa4]

THIS SHOWS THE ISRAELI UGLY FACE What have the Palestinians done? Maybe they should protest like Ghandi ? OK LET'S HUNGER STRIKE! WAIT A MINUTE ALREADY STARVING .. EATING GRASS ..AND ISNT SUICIDE T_E_R_R_O_R? MLK? OK. LETS TURN TO OUR CHURCH LEADERSHIP ..! WAITAMINUTE..! OUR RELIGEON IS VILLIFIED..! OUR CLERICS BECOME DISAPPEARED..IF HE STARTED SPEAKING, HE IS A T_E_R_R_RROROROROR Rachael Corey?..OK Tristan Anderson?..OK SURE..! Let's Protest peacefully THE LIARS WILL FAIL

[4aaaaa4]

The pentagon sure covers all the bases.

And If not ...

They will just false flag attack their own population again -problem solved...!

~

[MAD4MALAGATANI]

>"surely when they practice genocide it's to be expected?"

what are you talking about? which race did you save from genocide? six million Jews and you think 1300 rocket firing terrorists are a moral equivilant. Your statements make about as much sense as a tear gas can in the brain of the tree hugger.

[adrienb2]

fuck the IDF this video makes me want to join the freedom fighters against the zionist jew bastards. FREE PALESTINE

[MAD4MALAGATANI]

palestinians danced on 9/11 screw them and the tree-hugger

[fLiPpAntMisSCreanT]

You are a sorry person, to not see truths plainly written before your own nose... or how very much this has to do with your own slavery and impending fate.

 'Do unto others as has been done unto you' may ring a bell with your nearsighted kind... save a race from extermination and surely when they practice genocide it's to be expected?

[saadasim]

You mean the "5 Dancing Israeli Spies" ?

They were deported as you should be too.

whatreallyhappenedXcom/WRHARTI­CLES/fiveisraelisXhtml?q=fivei­sraelisXhtml

[MAD4MALAGATANI]

no I meant the 5000 dancing Palistinians and BTW Israel is an ally of the US and Palestine is a terrorist nazi entity that would spit on the US if it could. I spit on them all the dirty sand monkeye.

[saadasim]

Here is the respect that Israels shows the US:

Israeli Espionage Against the US

counterpunchXorg/husseini08302 004Xhtml

How Much Power Does Israel Have Over the US?

watch?v=tkdQbhB7Ckk

Christians in Jerusalem want Jews to stop spitting on them

uruknetXinfo/?p=m51780

If this is way Israel does to friends, well no wonder Gazans are pissed!

[MAD4MALAGATANI]

Palistinians are a great asset to the US... they have invented the mule bomb, perfected the suicide belt and dug the longest sand tunnels in the Sinai... real geniuses these arabo-trash. At least Israel offers the US a free military base in the ME... while the PLO offers us mule crap and illegal immigrant babies. Next time you need a good doctor or scientist, call a palistinian lol

[saadasim]

Israel does not allow and has no US Military bases. Add that to your list of lies.

[MAD4MALAGATANI]

Israel IS the military base equipped with soldiers ready to die for causes in the interests of the US, Arabs offer America 9/11, terror and more terror...

[saadasim]

In the Iraq war, which was fought for Israel, over 5000 Americans died. When was the last time 5000 Israelis died for a cause. Any cause!

Israel is a curse on the world and for Americans in particular.

[Marvel450]

This is what Israel does on a daily basis to the Palestinians. It takes a white man from Oakland to get shot for the whole world to witness it.

[rimash1979]

This is one example of many that shows Israel arrogant acts...I am a Plaestinian and proud to be one.

Let the world see the truth..just think of those who were killed in Gaza in the last few months..

STOP THE KILLING...STOP THE CRIME

FREE PALESTINE

[russelcrowefan]

I'm a jew and I have no compassion with this state of Israel which claims to represent and speak on the behalf of our jewish people.

I support Palestinians and truly believe in their fair and true cause. I'm sorry that these criminals say that they are jews, they are but bloody-thirty and coward zionist.

Jews for Peace!

[MAD4MALAGATANI]

you are an arrab or an arab lover. anti-zionism is anti semitism. anti-zionism is rascism. a defensive wall is apartheid on the part of the arab aggressors who make the jews return to a ghetto rather than get blown-up. ARAB TURNSPEAK is no different than the Nazi's BIG LIE. THINKING PEOPLE Don't buy it.

[mirgavno]

fuck you god damn..

[hanaaB]

what has Mr. Hope&Change have to say to this i wonder.....

[jburke1811]

LOSER~!!!

[edisonoside]

Israel is so disgusting. We should cut ALL ties with these terrorists...terrorists are terrorists I don't care where one comes from.

[cantilever]

A sovereign state trying to preserve its national security is "disgusting"?

What an odd sensibility...

[edisonoside]

Couldn't Hitler have used this kind of "Reasoning" ???...

[cantilever]

Whoa, Godwin's Law validated in no time flat!

*Thumb's up*

[masalafilm]

Disgusting: a soldier try to kill unarmed people defending human beings from an APARTHEID WALL.

Disgusting and probing the moral and political suicide of Israel.

[cantilever]

Disgusting, some Western dilettante, fresh from sitting in a tree in Berkeley, "protesting" a wall that stops suicide bombers from terrorizing Israeli civilians...

(How do you know that the soldier "tried to kill" him? There are easier ways to kill someone than using a tear gas canister...)

[masalafilm]

1) Nobody but you can tell that THE WALL is against suicide bombers. This in PROPAGANDA. The waal is part of Israel's apartheid politic.

2)If you fire that tear gas canister at human height you ARE trying to kill people. And it's an easy way to tell that you didn't want to.

[cantilever]

Nobody but me? Well, how about that!

Eh, the de rigueur "apartheid" rhetoric....THAT smacks of propaganda...

Neither you or I know whether the soldier intentionally tried to kill anyone...you cannot speak for his actions with any degree of certitude.

I think my statement is correct, however, that if you wanted to kill a dilettante, a bullet would be a MUCH easier way to do it rather than a tear gas canister...

(Probably cheaper, too...)

[masalafilm]

1) Apartheid is not rethoric nor propaganda, it's a well defined kind of geo-politics used in South Africa and replicated very well, with a change here and there from Israel government respect to palestinian people.

2) Bullets are easier and cheaper at the moment, but not as easy to be justified AFTER (as you are doing) as a tear gas canister. And i don't think IDF have budget problems...

[cantilever]

You say it is; I say it isn't: thus the irresolvable impasse. Eventually the words cease and the shooting begins. Such is humanity...

You still can't say that the soldier MEANT to kill Anderson. You can merely speculate...

(The IDF has a bounteous budget, I imagine--but these ARE Jews...if the point is to kill a dilettante, why choose the more expensive option?)

[masalafilm]

humanity ceases where the words cease...

I speculate, but not merely. Speculate it's the difference between a man and a computer.

And at least: israeli people (who talks about jews??) ARE NOT all the same in my humble opinion.

[cantilever]

"humanity ceases where the words cease..."

Does it? Does it really? Or is the truth that humanity barrels right along, whether it be the Holocaust, Rwanda, Darfur, Cambodia, etc...

(Those examples are just from the 20th century...one hundred years of human history.)

I agree that Israelis are very diverse...but speculation is self-defeating...

[raultalbot7]

Palestinians use people like Tristan as tools hoping to gain empathy from bleeding heart imbeciles like you. Maybe a shot in the head is what the rest of you need.

[12stringsforme]

Thank you for your intolerant, violent sentiments.  It is clear that Israel is not interested in dialogue, only killing. You are only assuring the end of US support with these attitudes, so by all means carry on.

[arabianjoker12]

best thing about it was all the palestinians shouting for an ambulance and that really wanting to help him out regardless of where he is from

[raultalbot7]

If Isreal was really interested in killing people they wouldn't use rubber bullets or gas canisters.....real bullets are cheaper and get the job done right the first time.

[edisonoside]

Israel NEVER uses real bullets...Oh how gentle and thoughtful..Didn't know rubber bullets could kill so many thousands..

[saadasim]

> raultalbot7: real bullets are cheaper

Why do they care? US taxpayers are paying for it!

[cantilever]

"You are only assuring the end of US support with these attitudes, so by all means carry on."

Ah, wish-thinking...with a feeble dollop of reverse psychology.

[12stringsforme]

Ah, massive hubris, with a sickening dose of megalomania . . . and the history of such delusional behavior is sadly inevitable.

[cantilever]

"Ah, massive hubris, with a sickening dose of megalomania . . . and the history of such delusional behavior is sadly inevitable."

That certainly sums up Tristan Anderson...

[flatl1n3]

"Ni'lin was 57,000 dunums in 1948, reduced to 33,000 dunums in 1967, currently the towns land is 10,000 dunums and will be 7,500 dunums after the construction of the Wall."

[edisonoside]

The mind of a Terrorist...Here one makes an attempt at speech..

[hgljshfr]

ladies and gents.

terrorist state of israel

presents:

just another crime

[kylem63]

Tristan, my thoughts are with you. hang in there. my thoughts are with all friends of Tristan too.

much love, k