A good coach would have brought it to the attention of the plate umpire, that it was a dead ball at the end of the play. Then he should have discussed it with the base umpire(s)..if nobody steps up to say, "hey<, I know the rule", then you are SOL
What rules was this under? The next question is when the umpire called time was he calling the runner out of calling a catch and carry situation. Was the leaving base to early called by the umpire immediately or was it called on appeal. I think the call was incorrect, based on what I see. My understanding, and I could be wrong depending on the rule code is that the umpires should not immediately call the runner out in this situation, it should be appealed.
I'm glad you give props to the umpire crew and recognize that they do a solid job. There's a way to discuss officiating issues and I like the way you did this. Thanks for keeping it civil.
looked like a bad call, but like you said in a comment, it happens. don deckinger blew a call in the 1985 world series that would have ended the series had he gotten it right. it happens, nothing can be done about it
I just love fans.....I love the way you qualify your video by complimenting the umpire as "dedicated", but you couldn't help yourself and post this video to show the world that he's human. I wonder how you'd feel if someone posted your stupid parental miscues. By the way, his partner also missed the fact that the centerfielder fell over the fence, then threw the ball to her teammate, a rule violation...she must re-enter the field...guess you missed that one, coach...
The UMP made a bad call...anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't really read the rules. moephoto64 is 100% correct. The ball was unintentionally carried into dead ball territory and the runner gets a base and therefore scores. If the batter had already passed 1st when the catch and carry happened then she actually gets 2nd base. If it had been intentional then the batter would get 2 bases so possibly would have gotten awarded third.
from camera's point of view - the tag was made ligit - - plus the runner is free to go at the point the ball is touched (don't know where the second hand must touch the ball for it to be legal......... from left field I guess. The call is legal tag, score an out for the catch, score a run for the offense unless the catch was the 3rd out
When a live ball is unintentionally carried by a fielder from playable territory into dead ball territory.
Effect: The ball is dead and each runner is awarded one base from the last base touched at the time the fielder entered dead ball territory.
In other words, since the player caught the ball and then fell over the fence into dead ball territory, there is no need to tag up. The umpire should have ruled a catch and carry and awarded each runner one base.
When a live ball is unintentionally carried by a fielder from playable territory into dead ball territory.
Effect: The ball is dead and each runner is awarded one base from the last base touched at the time the fielder entered dead ball territory.
In other words, since the player caught the ball and then fell over the fence into dead ball territory, there is no need to tag up. The umpire should have ruled a catch and carry and awarded each runner one base.
@softballfan you still need to tag up or else they can appeal...... pro rule you can catch and carry and up until last yr u could even catch a ball in dead ball terr as long as u came out to throw. Pro catch and carry is diff from fed I know.
@softballfan NFHS Rule 8, Section 3, Article 2: When a runner must return to a base while a ball is in play or dead, the runner must touch the base(s) in reverse order. Exception: On a foul ball. Effect: Offensive player could be ruled out on a proper appeal by the defensive team. NFHS Softball Casebook 8.3.2.B: (caught fly ball thrown out of play- is retouch necessary?) Ruling: Yes, because R1 left the base before F9 touched the ball. This is an appeal play......
@moephoto64 that doesnt include catching the ball. thats like if a player over throws it and throws it off the field into the stands. if the player catches it and falls into dead ball territory the runners are free to tag
@USCplaya58 It is plane as day. She made a great catch and then fell over the fence into dead ball territory. As an umpire, I have made this call many times. The rule i sited is directly from the rule book. It applies perfectly to this play.
@moephoto64 actually, you need to correct any base running infractions before you take your award, so even if it was called a catch and carry, she would still need to retouch
@mae2759 tha catch and carry is a dead ball infraction. That means all play is stopped at the time of the call therefore there is no opportunity to commit any socalled running infractions. I stand by my ruling.
When a live ball is unintentionally carried by a fielder from playable territory into dead ball territory.
Effect: The ball is dead and each runner is awarded one base from the last base touched at the time the fielder entered dead ball territory.
In other words, since the player caught the ball and then fell over the fence into dead ball territory, there is no need to tag up. The umpire should have ruled a catch and carry and awarded each runner one base.
@moephoto64 That still doesn't support your ruling that she does not need to tag up. She still needs to run the bases legally and correct any base running mistakes. gypsycabs quoted the ASA book
@mae2759 Yes is does. Rule 8 sec 5. item J is very specific. Those were referencing a different item. Item f is different than item J in sec 5 of rule 8.
@moephoto64 Actually, this would be a homerun since deadball territory is beyond the outfield fence. If she had caught the ball with a foot on the ground or touched the ground before crashing through the fence, it would have been an out. The rule you're referring to is talking about carrying into foul territory. Umpire blew this call either way.
@rollinjukebox Foul territory is in the playing field. Any place outside the playing field id dead ball territory. The other side of a home run fence is dead ball territory. I stand by my ruling.
@moephoto64 Actually, in ASA that isn't technically true. The player would still need to tag up or risk being put out on appeal. One of the questions on the ASA test is something like a player on first doesn't tag up, the fielder throws to first to get him out and the ball is overthrown into dead ball territory. The umpire should award the runner two bases from the last base touched at the time of the throw, but the player must return to first base to avoid being put out on appeal.
@gypsycabs Catch and carry is a DEAD BALL ruling. When the infraction occurs, nothing else can happen until the runners are AWARDED their base. The runners have no opportunity to "not tag up". Ask any qualified ASA umpire about the catch and carry rule and they will tell you the same. The rule prevents any cause for an appeal of any runner "not tagging up". Google "ASA Rule 8 sec 5 item J". It is the 6th on the list.
@moephoto64 You are correct about the catch and carry rule; however, your statement that "there is no need to tag up" is definitely wrong. It also definitely doesn't prevent any cause for appeal. Please see the Rules Supplement portion of the ASA rulebook, specifically C and D. You'll find them on page 107 of the 2009 book. The last paragraph talks about this situation - "once the umpire awards bases... the defense may appeal and the umpire should rule the runner out."
@moephoto64 Check out ASA's website, under UMPIRES, RULE CLARIFICATION AND PLAYS. Look under July 2009 and July 2010. Almost the exact situation as here. You'll see that the runner still needs to complete her baserunning responsibilities, ie. tagging up. Since the umpire here felt she left early (which I disagree with), if a dead ball is called the runner must retouch 3B or be at risk to be out on appeal.
@gypsycabs those are referencing a different section. I didn't see anything in reference to Rule 8 sec 5 item J. I saw item F. But not J. There is a big difference.
@moephoto64 You're getting confused. It isn't just one rule we need to focus on; multiple rules are at play here. First is the catch and carry rule, which you've cited nicely. Next is the appeal process, which I cited in both ASA's rulebook and website. Did you read the ASA webiste plays that I cited? I think once you do you'll understand the correct ruling.
@moephoto64 See reply to softballfan below for NFHS Rule and case play on touching bases. ASA Rule 8, Section 3, A: "When a runner must return to a base while the ball is live or dead, the bases must be touched in reverse order. Effect: Runner is out, if properly appealed." 8.3.H: Awarded bases must be touched in legal order. Exception: Adult slow-pitch."
@moephoto64 See reply to softballfan below for NFHS Rule and case play on touching bases. ASA Rule 8, Section 3, A: "When a runner must return to a base while the ball is live or dead, the bases must be touched in reverse order. Effect: Runner is out, if properly appealed." 8.3.H: Awarded bases must be touched in legal order. Exception: Adult slow-pitch....." (This isn't)
@milwaukeejt "thrown out of play-" is not the same as "carry" out of play. That is the difference. In the play in question above, the player "carried" the ball out of play. You are referencing rule for a ball "thrown out of play- " I stand firmly by my ruling.
@moephoto64 How the ball becomes dead is irrelevant to the point. We are not discussing the number of bases awarded.The operational part of the rule here is a runner must touch or re-touch all the necessary bases, even when bases are "awarded". If they don't , it can be appealed and they can be ruled out. This has been pointed out, by several people, referencing ASA & NFHS rules for fastpitch. Please quote the exception that states you don't have to touch or retouch on a "catch & carry".
@milwaukeejt "How the ball becomes dead is irrelevant to the point." How the ball becomes dead is EVERYTHING not irrelevant to the point. It is so important, the rules dedicate an entire item (J) to it.
The so-called references are to "other" circumstances not a catch and carry. So how the ball becomes dead is everything.
Looks like the base up raised his hands to indicate a dead ball. At the point all play would be stopped, so there would be no play or appeal to leave early as the play is over
Mechanics wise, the umpire who is responsible for watching the tag up waits to hear his partner yell "catch" on a catch because on a play like that, the umpire has to wait to make sure the fielder holds on to the ball throughout the fall she had. Which is probably why the runner was called out.
Im not sure how its done in softball, but in baseball the defensive team MUST appeal to get the out. If thats the way it is in softball then they really blew that call.
I showed as little of the umpires as possible because I didn't want to identify any of them. My intent was to use the video as a forum for debate on whether the call was correct. Despite what some of the responsers indicate, I didn't want embarress any of the men.
damn people dont know about the rules ..... the outfielder does not need to catch the ball for the runner then to tag up and run... as soon as the ball makes contact with the glove.. the runner is allowed to run to the next base.... read the rule books man... so u telling me for example.. the outfielder can bobble the ball like 100 times on purpose and the runner has to stay OF COURSE NOT LETS READ THE BOOKS!
Did NOT tag up. Its people like this that ruin sports, always bitching about the officiating...STFU! Officials are only human they can't be perfect, i'd like to see you do that job, because you cant. theres a reason he was out there and you werent. Because your the one who always bitches at the umps at the games, and you dont want to be on the other end of the bitching! If you cant take what you give then shut your god damned mouth!
It's an out. The player did not touch the ball with the other hand(when it officially becomes a catch) before the base runner started for home. That is an out.
I love how at the end of the video you try to cover up ripping on the ump by saying he's a good guy that dedicates time to the game. If you really think he was a good guy you wouldn't make a minute and a half video in SPLIT SCREEN AND STOP MOTION to prove he missed one call. Show the raw video with no words popping up saying what call the umps did make and let it be a discussion of what call others would make on this play, not blasting the ump for making the call he did.
Granted there are a lot of comments and responses to sort thru, but if you were to take the time to read EVERYTHING related to this video -- including my responses to comments -- you'd see why it was posted. It's a forum to discuss a controversial call. No potshots were taken and it's highly unlikely that anybody would recognize the umpire(s). And yes, the umpires did call a good game.
Once the fielder collapsed the temporary fence, she was in dead ball territory and no other play was possible. What the umpires missed here has nothing to do with tagging up.
Flipside, you obviously don't umpire. The fence establishes the line between live ball territory and dead ball territory. Notice the name, DEAD BALL territory. Once the player, or the ball, enters dead ball territory, you have, I know this may come as a surprise, a dead ball. When the ball is dead, no action can continue, except on a home run where the player must touch all bases. Umpiring 101.
You have never heard the old axiom "better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt," have you? I am talking softball. ASA, USSSA, NCAA, and NFHS. In all of these rule sets this would be considered a dead ball.
Based on your logic, anytime you catch a fly ball in the outfield with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs, all you need to do is jump the fence to prevent them from being able to tag up. Also, based on your logic, the runner can't be called out for leaving the base early because she could run all over the field and nothing could be done, as she is still on 3rd. I think your logic is wrong, thanks for trying though.
ASA 8:5:J & K address this issue. Unintentionally carried into dead ball territory, dead ball and a one base award to all runners. If it is intentionally carried into dead ball territory, as you imply, then it would be dead ball and 2 bases awarded to all runners. Same for NCAA, rule 12.13 is the referenced rule here. With a knowledge of the rules, you don't need to worry about others' "logic."
I wasn't umpiring durng the time this video was posted and obviously wasn't familiar with any "Code". Anyway, if you read all comments and my responses you'll find that I made every effort to make sure the umpires were unrecognizable in the video. I was, and still am interested in opinions on how the play developed and the end result. I don't umpire softball so I'm not particularly worried about reprisals, though I am interested in the ump site(s) you mention?
You said you are a past and present umpire and you posted this vid in this forum? Have u forgotten the "code"? I hope you dont have to work any games with anyone from this crew\association as I am sure they will & should throw u under the bus every chance they get (gonna be lonely out there Blue). There are other "umpire sites\ forums" that this could have been posted on if you truly wanted mechanical\situational answers as u claim. "Hey Softballfan, you Kicked this one!"
i get so sick and tired of people posting videos on here complaining about umpires when the umpire does it right. in this case the umpire was actually wrong but kudos to the person realizing that yes umpires are human they do make mistakes but they still try to do the best job they can
I didn't post the video to complain about umpires. I had never seen a situation where a runner was called out after an outfielder fell through a temporary fence. For whatever it's worth, I umpired high school and college baseball in the late 70's and returned to officiating this year.
The Base umpire blew the call.Home plate calls the catch. Poor Mechanics on the Base umpire. His responsibility is the runners. A junior umpire would know this these umpires suck. In so cal they would have been read the riot act blowing a call like that.
Echiasson-actually no, home doesn't call the catch here. As someone said before, with a runner on third and U3 going out (debatable here, but hold that thought for a second), PU moves up the line in foul territory to see the tag up and the ball/catch. The actual catch itself is U1/U3 depending on who went out. More importantly though is that in this video it doesn't look like there was a clear understanding of rotation or mechanics to actually move correctly as U3 moves very late (cont.)
and then is out of position to make the catch call on a 'trouble' ball. I think it's fairly clear that the call was incorrect and most everyone agrees on that. Where this can be improved is on the overall mechanics of the umping crew who are human, who make mistakes and more importantly can also learn from them. It's not clear if there was a runner on 1st or not, but IMHO, U1 should have gone out here and made the catch/no-catch call, U3 should have had tag up/base responsibilities (cont.)
on 1st and 2nd provided there were runners and also has the B/R in the event the catch is not actually made. If U3 decides to go out, then he has to make that decision demonstratively sooner, and the same rotation applies with PU taking tag up at 3rd and U1 coming in to take tag up responsibilities for everything BUT 3rd. Hopefully the umps who worked this game did see this video and will get something constructive from it and the comments.
Incidentally, the rest of the catch/carry, carry into DBT is straight-forward by rule in most rules systems, and the award is also equally straight forward. Unfortunately, neither of these were applied correctly here either which is something that hopefully these umps will learn from after seeing the play from a different viewpoint.
In 3-umpire system, if the centerfielder is moving toward the left field line, U3 has the call on a trouble ball: catch/no catch, home run/2 base award if the ball clears the fence, or the catch & carry that we see here. U2 would have these calls if the centerfielder was moving toward the right field line. After the fielder falls over the fence, U3 does raise both hands, signalling "dead-ball". U3 also has a good angle on the play. Plate umpire had responsibility for the tag at 3rd.
Milwaukee - I think it's debatable here that the centerfielder is moving toward the left-field line, it's more straight-away center which would indicate it's more of a 50/50 as to who makes the decision to go out. Certainly as the fielder catches and falls through the fence U3 kills the play (after appropriate timing), but I would argue that U3 moved late and had an angle, but not a great angle (behind the play) and wasn't close enough to see a potential drop/trap, etc.
Likewise, while U3 turns his chest to the ball, he starts to walk out to short left and calls the play on the move vs. set. Even if we consider the trouble ball in U3's territory using the rotation you indicated, there wasn't, IMHO, enough movement to establish 'going out' and it happened late. Did it contribute to the kicked call? No, probably not.
Furax02: I see the CF take about ten strides to her right (toward LF line & from dead-center to LCF) before leaping for the ball. She is "facing" U3 and would have her back to U2. U3 would have all the elements in plain view: ball, fielder & fence.
Closing the distance to the play would have been better, I agree, and be set before fielder & ball meet.
As PU, I would be glancing at my partner. If he has his back to me and 3rd base, I'd line up to get best view of catch & tag-up.
Furax02: Nice to have reasoned, intelligent exchanges here. Thanks.
Speaking of "behind the play", I don't see U2 in the frame (I hope this wasn't 2-umpire system. Base umpire would be way out of position.) It looks like the only runner was at 3rd. If so, U2 would be down the RF foul line from 1st base: behind the play all the way.
Aside from that, I agree- If you're "going out", then go out and get the best possible combo of proximity & angle.
Milwaukee: Agreed - thanks for candor. After reviewing it again, I was incorrect on U3 and the timing of the turn and look. I also looked at the catch again and noticed that it was more angled toward U3 than I originally thought. So, I take back my previous comments about angle in this situation.
U2 isn't in the frame which, I agree, means that U2 was in 'A' position and would have been completely behind the play in this case, and was not the appropriate umpire to go out here.
So, unfortunately, as in some good umpire discussions on the field, I find myself reversing my call. Thanks for making me review it again, think through it and learn from my own mistakes. I can only hope that other umpires, parents, coaches and fans do the same in their own examples.
Someone in an earlier post suggested that a runner would not have to properly tag-up when there is a "dead-ball" and bases awarded. This would not be correct. Even on awarded bases, the runner still has to legally touch the necessary bases. If a runner did not "tag-up" or left a base before a fly ball was touched & then caught, she would still have to retouch the base before advancing, or risk being called out on appeal. (Same if she missed a base while advancing on an award.)
absolutely correct. U3 moved to make the call which was correct. The Plate Ump should've moved back along the 3rd base dugout side along the fence. This will give him a large perifrial view of the catch and the tag up. It will also give him time to get back to home plate if there was going to be a play at home. it's good to see someone knows about umpiring on YouTube. I hate when people comment on calls and have no clue about rules or umpire mechanics.
I'm not a religous person, but I'm praying that you're young enough to change your ways. If what you write is true you need to seek help. You spit on a youth league umpire?
Please read the video description. You'll learn about who won the game. That should also give you some insight as to how little the parents -- myself included -- worried about the call. Read some of my response to comments and you'll also get an idea of how unimportant the call was to anybody. THE VIDEO WAS POSTED BECAUSE I WANTED TO HEAR WHAT PEOPLE THOUGHT ABOUT THE PLAY!
Ok. She tagged up. Then, she was mistakenly called out. More interesting to me is what did the "adults" say to the kids following the game? 'The umps cost us this game?" Just curious.
ok the girl is not out and it wuz 1 point she wud hav scored newayz not like it matterz but reely ok the girl touched the ball then the girl on the base ran she cud hav stayed on the base since the begining and nvr left n she wud b safe roo13813roo u r stupid
Umpires aren't getting worse. A huge percentage of calls are right on. I know because I've videotaped hundreds of hours of prep basketball, baseball and softball games and have had the luxury of reviewing that footage. During the past 7 years I don't recall more than a half dozen really bad calls, and this particular video isn't on that list. As a matter of fact this is the ONLY time I saw this play develop. That's why I posted the video. That and I wanted to read what people had to say.
It's hard to tell if she kept possession of the ball long enough to call it a catch. That would be an umpires discretion. If it was caught, it's an out with dead ball called for ball leaving field of play and all runners advance one base. Rember to tell BLUE...."GOOD GAME". It's not too often we get praised and it goes a long way.
Umpires aren't idiots. Most, if not all officiate because they love the game. I've clashed with a few over bad calls but I've NEVER thought they were dumb because of an incorrect call. Real time can move quickly when you're trying to react to a play in any sport.
Yes, Jen has recovered. Hopefully you'll take the time to read the written video description to get a better understanding of why the video was posted. Hopefully...
Those are the calls when I wish there were 14 different Umps on the field....the ball wasn't in full control at the time.....I would have made the call...
What do you mean "the ball wasn't in full control at the time." The runner does NOT have to wait until the ball is caught. The runner can leave the base just as soon as the fielder TOUCHES the ball or is touched by the ball.
Please take the time to read the entire description of the video before drawing your conclusions. If I had wanted to show the the officials up I would have edited the video so viewers would have been able to recognize the them. The video was posted for the sake of constructive debate, and on the whole, that's exactly what it's produced.
Okay umpires screwed up on that play completely. She properly tagged for one. Two, since he knocked over the fence which made her go "out of play," all runners should receive 1 base, which would have protected the running from third not tagging properly, even though she did.
I am assuming three since the base ump we see in the video is in the "D" position. This would mean that the catch is his call and the home plate umpire comes up the line to cover third while he is in the outfield. If there were three, the base ump should have been further out and the home plate ump should have been covering third.
If there were two umps, the base ump was out of position and the fly ball is the plate ump's call and the touch is the base ump's call
3 officials that day. The homeplate umpire drifted to his left (see shadow) and the ump near third base can be seen at the 1:26 mark walking towards centerfield. Funny thing is it wasn't until you posted your comments that I noticed the third base ump signaling "safe". Wouldn't this mean "no catch?". If this is the case there would have been no need to tag up to begin with! Interesting!
I noticed that he first signaled "out" at the beginning although it is hard to see. The signal you saw is "time." It appears to be a no catch signal but you can see the out signal for a split second as the camera zooms out at 0:16. I initially thought it was a no catch signal as well.
However, it is a time signal because the center fielder fell over a fence out of play. In this case the runners are given two bases, but still need to tag up.
He should have been a lot closer to the fence though
If it were my call i would have ruled it dead since it was out of play. but it should have been in the position of the home plate umpire to check and see if the runner tagged up. but then it depends on ur team. i have worked with guys where they make all fly ball calls
From this angle (and its a poor angle to judge), I wouldn't make that call. But... the amount of time between the catch and the tag is less than half a second by my count. The runner was timing it. Made it a close play when it wasn't necessary on the deep fly. If she holds til the player is on the ground (and through the fence), she's still fast enough to be safe by a mile. I put that blame on the base coach: Hold the girl for 1 sec. No need to risk the tagup call at all.
I absolutely agree with you when you write that it's easier to make a call after view replay. We see it every night during telecasts of college and professional sporting events. I invite you to read my entire description for the video to see why I posted the video. Thanks for your thoughtful comments.
First off you make a great argument, and it's tough to argue the other side but only when you use slow-mo replay. In the game the Umpire has to make sure the outfielder catches the ball. Here she left before the Umpire saw that the outfielder held onto the ball. It's easy to point out mistakes in slow-motion replay, but during a so called "bang-bang" play it's not so easy.
girls shuldnt be aloowed to play sports cuz they suck thumbs up if u r with me
XtinctionGods 5 months ago
That fence looks expensive.
JWilliamson1987 6 months ago
A good coach would have brought it to the attention of the plate umpire, that it was a dead ball at the end of the play. Then he should have discussed it with the base umpire(s)..if nobody steps up to say, "hey<, I know the rule", then you are SOL
TonySiani 6 months ago
What rules was this under? The next question is when the umpire called time was he calling the runner out of calling a catch and carry situation. Was the leaving base to early called by the umpire immediately or was it called on appeal. I think the call was incorrect, based on what I see. My understanding, and I could be wrong depending on the rule code is that the umpires should not immediately call the runner out in this situation, it should be appealed.
chapmaja 6 months ago
u gotta chill
SpongeFan02 8 months ago
parents take girls softball way too seriously. it's such a joke...
dmavz09 8 months ago
he should go kill himself
icanputmypedalson 8 months ago
I'm glad you give props to the umpire crew and recognize that they do a solid job. There's a way to discuss officiating issues and I like the way you did this. Thanks for keeping it civil.
socref79 9 months ago
would have gotten home anyways on catch and carry rule
tmlms1313 10 months ago
oh my gosh. she was called out??!?!?!?!
bekahw00 10 months ago
whoever uploaded this must be the lady called out, and still hates life..
armanico04 1 year ago
who made the call, it was the plate umps call
panache101 1 year ago
Jennifer got hosed.
I hope you started a fist fight over this.
poshko41 1 year ago
people ar people so stop postin negative comments!!!
baseballman984 1 year ago
Catch and carry rule, runners get one base and an out
Kipperluongo 1 year ago
great catch
grndog2 1 year ago
why is the third base umpire calling time at the end of the video?
NJHavens 1 year ago
If you think the Umpire is just human, why make this video and put it on youtube??? A bit of dobbelt standard don't ya think???
cphthomsen 1 year ago
looked like a bad call, but like you said in a comment, it happens. don deckinger blew a call in the 1985 world series that would have ended the series had he gotten it right. it happens, nothing can be done about it
MeatLoafFan47 1 year ago
Ya bad call but Holy Crap get over it.
If a video was made for every bad call an umpire made just last weekend Youtube would need to double it's servers storage capacity.
DelbertStinkfester 1 year ago
just wasted minute of my life, stop complaining about umpires. No one is perfect
samg2018 1 year ago
I'm really getting tired of America's pasttime, especially in the MLB. Why do we have replay when we don't even use it???
usteeler81 1 year ago
I just love fans.....I love the way you qualify your video by complimenting the umpire as "dedicated", but you couldn't help yourself and post this video to show the world that he's human. I wonder how you'd feel if someone posted your stupid parental miscues. By the way, his partner also missed the fact that the centerfielder fell over the fence, then threw the ball to her teammate, a rule violation...she must re-enter the field...guess you missed that one, coach...
jdevil81 1 year ago
Get over it...the ump made a bad call. That happens in sports at all levels. It does not happen all the time, but is part of the game.
slamdog22 1 year ago
Comment removed
grasd2 1 year ago
this is fine, players are allowed to steal home, AFTER the ball is caught by and outfileder, howevere she can only do this if hit into the outfield
irockyou123456 1 year ago
The UMP made a bad call...anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't really read the rules. moephoto64 is 100% correct. The ball was unintentionally carried into dead ball territory and the runner gets a base and therefore scores. If the batter had already passed 1st when the catch and carry happened then she actually gets 2nd base. If it had been intentional then the batter would get 2 bases so possibly would have gotten awarded third.
noscope1 1 year ago
from camera's point of view - the tag was made ligit - - plus the runner is free to go at the point the ball is touched (don't know where the second hand must touch the ball for it to be legal......... from left field I guess. The call is legal tag, score an out for the catch, score a run for the offense unless the catch was the 3rd out
rocarter48 1 year ago
horrible ump
sk82jesus 1 year ago
@sk82jesus
The umpire was not horrible. He missed the call. Stuff happens.
softballfan 1 year ago 8
@softballfan lmao, if you got no beef with the ump, why even post this vid!?!?
GamecockRock0525 1 year ago
@softballfan Agreed, even tho its a bad call they still got alot of stuff tp pay attention to while the game is going
Bizkit51 6 months ago
who cares...its girls softball
1125berg 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Under Rule 8 sec 5
item J.
When a live ball is unintentionally carried by a fielder from playable territory into dead ball territory.
Effect: The ball is dead and each runner is awarded one base from the last base touched at the time the fielder entered dead ball territory.
In other words, since the player caught the ball and then fell over the fence into dead ball territory, there is no need to tag up. The umpire should have ruled a catch and carry and awarded each runner one base.
moephoto64 1 year ago
Under Rule 8 sec 5
item J.
When a live ball is unintentionally carried by a fielder from playable territory into dead ball territory.
Effect: The ball is dead and each runner is awarded one base from the last base touched at the time the fielder entered dead ball territory.
In other words, since the player caught the ball and then fell over the fence into dead ball territory, there is no need to tag up. The umpire should have ruled a catch and carry and awarded each runner one base.
moephoto64 1 year ago 15
@moephoto64
Best answer to date. You nailed it!
softballfan 1 year ago
@softballfan It's not the best answer, it's the only answer.
redverter 1 year ago
@softballfan you still need to tag up or else they can appeal...... pro rule you can catch and carry and up until last yr u could even catch a ball in dead ball terr as long as u came out to throw. Pro catch and carry is diff from fed I know.
spooff4life 1 year ago
@softballfan But it's the wrong answer. This is a homerun, not a catch and carry.
rollinjukebox 1 year ago
@softballfan NFHS Rule 8, Section 3, Article 2: When a runner must return to a base while a ball is in play or dead, the runner must touch the base(s) in reverse order. Exception: On a foul ball. Effect: Offensive player could be ruled out on a proper appeal by the defensive team. NFHS Softball Casebook 8.3.2.B: (caught fly ball thrown out of play- is retouch necessary?) Ruling: Yes, because R1 left the base before F9 touched the ball. This is an appeal play......
milwaukeejt 1 year ago
@softballfan
So the ump screwed up even worse than they thought!
He's still not as bad as the Joe West crew.
oldaardvark 1 year ago
@moephoto64 that doesnt include catching the ball. thats like if a player over throws it and throws it off the field into the stands. if the player catches it and falls into dead ball territory the runners are free to tag
USCplaya58 1 year ago
@USCplaya58 It is plane as day. She made a great catch and then fell over the fence into dead ball territory. As an umpire, I have made this call many times. The rule i sited is directly from the rule book. It applies perfectly to this play.
moephoto64 1 year ago
@moephoto64 actually, you need to correct any base running infractions before you take your award, so even if it was called a catch and carry, she would still need to retouch
mae2759 1 year ago
@mae2759 tha catch and carry is a dead ball infraction. That means all play is stopped at the time of the call therefore there is no opportunity to commit any socalled running infractions. I stand by my ruling.
moephoto64 1 year ago
@moephoto64 can you cite a rule to back up your incorrect interpretation?
mae2759 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mae2759 Under Rule 8 sec 5 item J.
When a live ball is unintentionally carried by a fielder from playable territory into dead ball territory.
Effect: The ball is dead and each runner is awarded one base from the last base touched at the time the fielder entered dead ball territory.
In other words, since the player caught the ball and then fell over the fence into dead ball territory, there is no need to tag up. The umpire should have ruled a catch and carry and awarded each runner one base.
moephoto64 1 year ago
@mae2759@mae2759 Under Rule 8 sec 5 item J.
When a live ball is unintentionally carried by a fielder from playable territory into dead ball territory.
Effect: The ball is dead and each runner is awarded one base from the last base touched at the time the fielder entered dead ball territory.
I.
moephoto64 1 year ago
@moephoto64 That still doesn't support your ruling that she does not need to tag up. She still needs to run the bases legally and correct any base running mistakes. gypsycabs quoted the ASA book
mae2759 1 year ago
@mae2759 Yes is does. Rule 8 sec 5. item J is very specific. Those were referencing a different item. Item f is different than item J in sec 5 of rule 8.
moephoto64 1 year ago
@mae2759 It's in my tag from 3 months ago. Look up
moephoto64 1 year ago
@moephoto64 Actually, this would be a homerun since deadball territory is beyond the outfield fence. If she had caught the ball with a foot on the ground or touched the ground before crashing through the fence, it would have been an out. The rule you're referring to is talking about carrying into foul territory. Umpire blew this call either way.
rollinjukebox 1 year ago
@rollinjukebox Foul territory is in the playing field. Any place outside the playing field id dead ball territory. The other side of a home run fence is dead ball territory. I stand by my ruling.
moephoto64 1 year ago
@moephoto64 Actually, in ASA that isn't technically true. The player would still need to tag up or risk being put out on appeal. One of the questions on the ASA test is something like a player on first doesn't tag up, the fielder throws to first to get him out and the ball is overthrown into dead ball territory. The umpire should award the runner two bases from the last base touched at the time of the throw, but the player must return to first base to avoid being put out on appeal.
gypsycabs 1 year ago
@gypsycabs Catch and carry is a DEAD BALL ruling. When the infraction occurs, nothing else can happen until the runners are AWARDED their base. The runners have no opportunity to "not tag up". Ask any qualified ASA umpire about the catch and carry rule and they will tell you the same. The rule prevents any cause for an appeal of any runner "not tagging up". Google "ASA Rule 8 sec 5 item J". It is the 6th on the list.
moephoto64 1 year ago
@moephoto64 You are correct about the catch and carry rule; however, your statement that "there is no need to tag up" is definitely wrong. It also definitely doesn't prevent any cause for appeal. Please see the Rules Supplement portion of the ASA rulebook, specifically C and D. You'll find them on page 107 of the 2009 book. The last paragraph talks about this situation - "once the umpire awards bases... the defense may appeal and the umpire should rule the runner out."
gypsycabs 1 year ago
@moephoto64 Check out ASA's website, under UMPIRES, RULE CLARIFICATION AND PLAYS. Look under July 2009 and July 2010. Almost the exact situation as here. You'll see that the runner still needs to complete her baserunning responsibilities, ie. tagging up. Since the umpire here felt she left early (which I disagree with), if a dead ball is called the runner must retouch 3B or be at risk to be out on appeal.
gypsycabs 1 year ago
@gypsycabs those are referencing a different section. I didn't see anything in reference to Rule 8 sec 5 item J. I saw item F. But not J. There is a big difference.
moephoto64 1 year ago
@moephoto64 You're getting confused. It isn't just one rule we need to focus on; multiple rules are at play here. First is the catch and carry rule, which you've cited nicely. Next is the appeal process, which I cited in both ASA's rulebook and website. Did you read the ASA webiste plays that I cited? I think once you do you'll understand the correct ruling.
gypsycabs 1 year ago
@moephoto64 See reply to softballfan below for NFHS Rule and case play on touching bases. ASA Rule 8, Section 3, A: "When a runner must return to a base while the ball is live or dead, the bases must be touched in reverse order. Effect: Runner is out, if properly appealed." 8.3.H: Awarded bases must be touched in legal order. Exception: Adult slow-pitch."
milwaukeejt 1 year ago
@moephoto64 See reply to softballfan below for NFHS Rule and case play on touching bases. ASA Rule 8, Section 3, A: "When a runner must return to a base while the ball is live or dead, the bases must be touched in reverse order. Effect: Runner is out, if properly appealed." 8.3.H: Awarded bases must be touched in legal order. Exception: Adult slow-pitch....." (This isn't)
milwaukeejt 1 year ago
@milwaukeejt "thrown out of play-" is not the same as "carry" out of play. That is the difference. In the play in question above, the player "carried" the ball out of play. You are referencing rule for a ball "thrown out of play- " I stand firmly by my ruling.
moephoto64 1 year ago
@moephoto64 How the ball becomes dead is irrelevant to the point. We are not discussing the number of bases awarded.The operational part of the rule here is a runner must touch or re-touch all the necessary bases, even when bases are "awarded". If they don't , it can be appealed and they can be ruled out. This has been pointed out, by several people, referencing ASA & NFHS rules for fastpitch. Please quote the exception that states you don't have to touch or retouch on a "catch & carry".
milwaukeejt 1 year ago
@milwaukeejt You know what they say, you can lead a horse to water...
gypsycabs 1 year ago
@milwaukeejt "How the ball becomes dead is irrelevant to the point." How the ball becomes dead is EVERYTHING not irrelevant to the point. It is so important, the rules dedicate an entire item (J) to it.
The so-called references are to "other" circumstances not a catch and carry. So how the ball becomes dead is everything.
moephoto64 11 months ago
@moephoto64
Looks like the base up raised his hands to indicate a dead ball. At the point all play would be stopped, so there would be no play or appeal to leave early as the play is over
irefsports 11 months ago
@moephoto64 it's called a catch and carry....I call this A LOT!!!!
alasjajo 8 months ago
@moephoto64 good guess but wrong, she landed on the fence which upright or down is still a part of the playing field, she never crossed that line
panache101 6 months ago
Mechanics wise, the umpire who is responsible for watching the tag up waits to hear his partner yell "catch" on a catch because on a play like that, the umpire has to wait to make sure the fielder holds on to the ball throughout the fall she had. Which is probably why the runner was called out.
BO4824 1 year ago
Im not sure how its done in softball, but in baseball the defensive team MUST appeal to get the out. If thats the way it is in softball then they really blew that call.
MageMasher007 1 year ago
tgibsoncat,
I showed as little of the umpires as possible because I didn't want to identify any of them. My intent was to use the video as a forum for debate on whether the call was correct. Despite what some of the responsers indicate, I didn't want embarress any of the men.
softballfan 1 year ago
Why does this video NOT show the actual call the men in blue made?
tgibsoncat 1 year ago
damn people dont know about the rules ..... the outfielder does not need to catch the ball for the runner then to tag up and run... as soon as the ball makes contact with the glove.. the runner is allowed to run to the next base.... read the rule books man... so u telling me for example.. the outfielder can bobble the ball like 100 times on purpose and the runner has to stay OF COURSE NOT LETS READ THE BOOKS!
peter64091 1 year ago
Did NOT tag up. Its people like this that ruin sports, always bitching about the officiating...STFU! Officials are only human they can't be perfect, i'd like to see you do that job, because you cant. theres a reason he was out there and you werent. Because your the one who always bitches at the umps at the games, and you dont want to be on the other end of the bitching! If you cant take what you give then shut your god damned mouth!
LadyAndTeddy 1 year ago
bad call
mattador2792 1 year ago
It's an out. The player did not touch the ball with the other hand(when it officially becomes a catch) before the base runner started for home. That is an out.
wildbill642 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
umpires are all dumbasses
easttenn4 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
umpires are all dumbasses
easttenn4 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
umpires are all dumbasses
easttenn4 1 year ago
umpires are all dumbasses
easttenn4 1 year ago
@easttenn4 You seem to be an absolute Einstein yourself... NOT.
BAPACop 1 year ago
Comment removed
easttenn4 1 year ago
nice video !! 4 stars
bigbash666 1 year ago
I love how at the end of the video you try to cover up ripping on the ump by saying he's a good guy that dedicates time to the game. If you really think he was a good guy you wouldn't make a minute and a half video in SPLIT SCREEN AND STOP MOTION to prove he missed one call. Show the raw video with no words popping up saying what call the umps did make and let it be a discussion of what call others would make on this play, not blasting the ump for making the call he did.
knighttyme03 1 year ago
Granted there are a lot of comments and responses to sort thru, but if you were to take the time to read EVERYTHING related to this video -- including my responses to comments -- you'd see why it was posted. It's a forum to discuss a controversial call. No potshots were taken and it's highly unlikely that anybody would recognize the umpire(s). And yes, the umpires did call a good game.
softballfan 1 year ago
Yep--missed the call.
oldaardvark 2 years ago
it is a out with the feilder ending up in deadball area, all runners advance one base in both fastpitch and hardball NFHS, ASA,
10teen 2 years ago
Once the fielder collapsed the temporary fence, she was in dead ball territory and no other play was possible. What the umpires missed here has nothing to do with tagging up.
skahtboi 2 years ago
Wrong! Play continues no matter what.
flipside5d5 2 years ago
Flipside, you obviously don't umpire. The fence establishes the line between live ball territory and dead ball territory. Notice the name, DEAD BALL territory. Once the player, or the ball, enters dead ball territory, you have, I know this may come as a surprise, a dead ball. When the ball is dead, no action can continue, except on a home run where the player must touch all bases. Umpiring 101.
skahtboi 2 years ago
Maybe in Baseball, but this is Softball, the rules are different so shut up.
flipside5d5 2 years ago
You have never heard the old axiom "better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt," have you? I am talking softball. ASA, USSSA, NCAA, and NFHS. In all of these rule sets this would be considered a dead ball.
skahtboi 2 years ago
I already took those, it is not a dead ball.
flipside5d5 2 years ago
Based on your logic, anytime you catch a fly ball in the outfield with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs, all you need to do is jump the fence to prevent them from being able to tag up. Also, based on your logic, the runner can't be called out for leaving the base early because she could run all over the field and nothing could be done, as she is still on 3rd. I think your logic is wrong, thanks for trying though.
hinjon 2 years ago
ASA 8:5:J & K address this issue. Unintentionally carried into dead ball territory, dead ball and a one base award to all runners. If it is intentionally carried into dead ball territory, as you imply, then it would be dead ball and 2 bases awarded to all runners. Same for NCAA, rule 12.13 is the referenced rule here. With a knowledge of the rules, you don't need to worry about others' "logic."
skahtboi 2 years ago
bad call
jeremykool4life 2 years ago
softball is soo confusing
snowboarddude117 2 years ago
horrible call how can u mess up on a call like that
matthewdj5 2 years ago
I wasn't umpiring durng the time this video was posted and obviously wasn't familiar with any "Code". Anyway, if you read all comments and my responses you'll find that I made every effort to make sure the umpires were unrecognizable in the video. I was, and still am interested in opinions on how the play developed and the end result. I don't umpire softball so I'm not particularly worried about reprisals, though I am interested in the ump site(s) you mention?
softballfan 2 years ago
You said you are a past and present umpire and you posted this vid in this forum? Have u forgotten the "code"? I hope you dont have to work any games with anyone from this crew\association as I am sure they will & should throw u under the bus every chance they get (gonna be lonely out there Blue). There are other "umpire sites\ forums" that this could have been posted on if you truly wanted mechanical\situational answers as u claim. "Hey Softballfan, you Kicked this one!"
Bagel601 2 years ago
i get so sick and tired of people posting videos on here complaining about umpires when the umpire does it right. in this case the umpire was actually wrong but kudos to the person realizing that yes umpires are human they do make mistakes but they still try to do the best job they can
jasonpcaa 2 years ago
I didn't post the video to complain about umpires. I had never seen a situation where a runner was called out after an outfielder fell through a temporary fence. For whatever it's worth, I umpired high school and college baseball in the late 70's and returned to officiating this year.
softballfan 2 years ago
There was a heated debate heard around the field but I don't recall if a appeal request was made. I assume there was?
softballfan 2 years ago
Hey! I Guess he's human! jk. did they appeal?
CoUnTrYgIrL1037 2 years ago
that was a really bad call haha
but what can ya do? it happens .. sometimes more than you want it to
kjp137 2 years ago
The Base umpire blew the call.Home plate calls the catch. Poor Mechanics on the Base umpire. His responsibility is the runners. A junior umpire would know this these umpires suck. In so cal they would have been read the riot act blowing a call like that.
echiasson1 2 years ago
Echiasson-actually no, home doesn't call the catch here. As someone said before, with a runner on third and U3 going out (debatable here, but hold that thought for a second), PU moves up the line in foul territory to see the tag up and the ball/catch. The actual catch itself is U1/U3 depending on who went out. More importantly though is that in this video it doesn't look like there was a clear understanding of rotation or mechanics to actually move correctly as U3 moves very late (cont.)
Furax02 2 years ago
and then is out of position to make the catch call on a 'trouble' ball. I think it's fairly clear that the call was incorrect and most everyone agrees on that. Where this can be improved is on the overall mechanics of the umping crew who are human, who make mistakes and more importantly can also learn from them. It's not clear if there was a runner on 1st or not, but IMHO, U1 should have gone out here and made the catch/no-catch call, U3 should have had tag up/base responsibilities (cont.)
Furax02 2 years ago
on 1st and 2nd provided there were runners and also has the B/R in the event the catch is not actually made. If U3 decides to go out, then he has to make that decision demonstratively sooner, and the same rotation applies with PU taking tag up at 3rd and U1 coming in to take tag up responsibilities for everything BUT 3rd. Hopefully the umps who worked this game did see this video and will get something constructive from it and the comments.
Furax02 2 years ago
Incidentally, the rest of the catch/carry, carry into DBT is straight-forward by rule in most rules systems, and the award is also equally straight forward. Unfortunately, neither of these were applied correctly here either which is something that hopefully these umps will learn from after seeing the play from a different viewpoint.
Furax02 2 years ago
In 3-umpire system, if the centerfielder is moving toward the left field line, U3 has the call on a trouble ball: catch/no catch, home run/2 base award if the ball clears the fence, or the catch & carry that we see here. U2 would have these calls if the centerfielder was moving toward the right field line. After the fielder falls over the fence, U3 does raise both hands, signalling "dead-ball". U3 also has a good angle on the play. Plate umpire had responsibility for the tag at 3rd.
milwaukeejt 2 years ago
Milwaukee - I think it's debatable here that the centerfielder is moving toward the left-field line, it's more straight-away center which would indicate it's more of a 50/50 as to who makes the decision to go out. Certainly as the fielder catches and falls through the fence U3 kills the play (after appropriate timing), but I would argue that U3 moved late and had an angle, but not a great angle (behind the play) and wasn't close enough to see a potential drop/trap, etc.
Furax02 2 years ago
Likewise, while U3 turns his chest to the ball, he starts to walk out to short left and calls the play on the move vs. set. Even if we consider the trouble ball in U3's territory using the rotation you indicated, there wasn't, IMHO, enough movement to establish 'going out' and it happened late. Did it contribute to the kicked call? No, probably not.
Furax02 2 years ago
Oops...forgot to say thanks for the follow-up, btw. I should have been more clear on why I indicated the rotation I indicated.
Furax02 2 years ago
Furax02: I see the CF take about ten strides to her right (toward LF line & from dead-center to LCF) before leaping for the ball. She is "facing" U3 and would have her back to U2. U3 would have all the elements in plain view: ball, fielder & fence.
Closing the distance to the play would have been better, I agree, and be set before fielder & ball meet.
As PU, I would be glancing at my partner. If he has his back to me and 3rd base, I'd line up to get best view of catch & tag-up.
milwaukeejt 2 years ago
Furax02: Nice to have reasoned, intelligent exchanges here. Thanks.
Speaking of "behind the play", I don't see U2 in the frame (I hope this wasn't 2-umpire system. Base umpire would be way out of position.) It looks like the only runner was at 3rd. If so, U2 would be down the RF foul line from 1st base: behind the play all the way.
Aside from that, I agree- If you're "going out", then go out and get the best possible combo of proximity & angle.
milwaukeejt 2 years ago
Milwaukee: Agreed - thanks for candor. After reviewing it again, I was incorrect on U3 and the timing of the turn and look. I also looked at the catch again and noticed that it was more angled toward U3 than I originally thought. So, I take back my previous comments about angle in this situation.
U2 isn't in the frame which, I agree, means that U2 was in 'A' position and would have been completely behind the play in this case, and was not the appropriate umpire to go out here.
Furax02 2 years ago
So, unfortunately, as in some good umpire discussions on the field, I find myself reversing my call. Thanks for making me review it again, think through it and learn from my own mistakes. I can only hope that other umpires, parents, coaches and fans do the same in their own examples.
Furax02 2 years ago
Someone in an earlier post suggested that a runner would not have to properly tag-up when there is a "dead-ball" and bases awarded. This would not be correct. Even on awarded bases, the runner still has to legally touch the necessary bases. If a runner did not "tag-up" or left a base before a fly ball was touched & then caught, she would still have to retouch the base before advancing, or risk being called out on appeal. (Same if she missed a base while advancing on an award.)
milwaukeejt 2 years ago
Furax: I've had to change a couple this season, based on input from partners. Have no problem going to them when its appropriate.
milwaukeejt 2 years ago
absolutely correct. U3 moved to make the call which was correct. The Plate Ump should've moved back along the 3rd base dugout side along the fence. This will give him a large perifrial view of the catch and the tag up. It will also give him time to get back to home plate if there was going to be a play at home. it's good to see someone knows about umpiring on YouTube. I hate when people comment on calls and have no clue about rules or umpire mechanics.
Smuug 2 years ago
If you found out this was an NJCAA game with 3 man mechanics, would you cahnge your comment?
LeftyLaCruise 2 years ago
The umpires at My park are so stupid
I physicaly got hit with the ball at bat and he's going to call it a strike.
I called him a sweaty jackass
and spit on a different ump for calling me out at first being picked off when he's over at third
xxxChriChrixxx 2 years ago
I'm not a religous person, but I'm praying that you're young enough to change your ways. If what you write is true you need to seek help. You spit on a youth league umpire?
softballfan 2 years ago
I'm sorry but that dude pissed me off
Anyways it was only his foot
xxxChriChrixxx 2 years ago
Please read the video description. You'll learn about who won the game. That should also give you some insight as to how little the parents -- myself included -- worried about the call. Read some of my response to comments and you'll also get an idea of how unimportant the call was to anybody. THE VIDEO WAS POSTED BECAUSE I WANTED TO HEAR WHAT PEOPLE THOUGHT ABOUT THE PLAY!
softballfan 2 years ago
Ok. She tagged up. Then, she was mistakenly called out. More interesting to me is what did the "adults" say to the kids following the game? 'The umps cost us this game?" Just curious.
wolverinefn25 2 years ago
that was a nice catch
fallintotheabyss 2 years ago
ok the girl is not out and it wuz 1 point she wud hav scored newayz not like it matterz but reely ok the girl touched the ball then the girl on the base ran she cud hav stayed on the base since the begining and nvr left n she wud b safe roo13813roo u r stupid
zblink182 2 years ago
really who cares it is only girls softball
maineman527 2 years ago
Um, you must care. You viewed the video then posted a comment. Brilliant response I might add! Very well thought out.
diamondgames 2 years ago
if it's only girls softball wh was you wathing?
tristansmall 2 years ago
actually, she is out. Sorry :(!
She is supposed to stay off the bag, then as the ball is caught, touch the base again and run!
roo13813roo 2 years ago
I am very sorry myself but that is far from correct. The umpire kicked the call. When in doubt don't bang em out on appeal plays.
hbkdfw 2 years ago
well, thats what I was taught!
roo13813roo 2 years ago
No, you can stay on the bag until the ball is caught and then leave. There is NOTHING illegal about that. hahahahaha
salazara23 2 years ago
hahaha? Sorry I dont get the joke. But ur pretty nice, unlike many people who cuss. Maybe thats right and I'm wrong. I'll check. BYE!
roo13813roo 2 years ago
Nice Catch... Ziggy?
LeftyLaCruise 2 years ago
Umpires aren't getting worse. A huge percentage of calls are right on. I know because I've videotaped hundreds of hours of prep basketball, baseball and softball games and have had the luxury of reviewing that footage. During the past 7 years I don't recall more than a half dozen really bad calls, and this particular video isn't on that list. As a matter of fact this is the ONLY time I saw this play develop. That's why I posted the video. That and I wanted to read what people had to say.
diamondgames 2 years ago
she looks safe to me...umpires r just getting worse and worse arn't they
xobabelbabyox 2 years ago
SAFE!
JLTRAIN233 2 years ago
It's hard to tell if she kept possession of the ball long enough to call it a catch. That would be an umpires discretion. If it was caught, it's an out with dead ball called for ball leaving field of play and all runners advance one base. Rember to tell BLUE...."GOOD GAME". It's not too often we get praised and it goes a long way.
upallllnight 2 years ago
Comment removed
LeftyLaCruise 2 years ago
its 8 to zero... not a big deal...
Odin3500 2 years ago
If anything...the girl tagging up...did some poor baserunning...she was late off the bag...its on the touch and the girl jumped.
mcjag30 2 years ago
Umpires aren't idiots. Most, if not all officiate because they love the game. I've clashed with a few over bad calls but I've NEVER thought they were dumb because of an incorrect call. Real time can move quickly when you're trying to react to a play in any sport.
diamondgames 2 years ago
Good to see someone out there respects us. If everyone had your view we would have no ejections.
sixthbrokenstring 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Umpires are idiots, and sometimes make the worst calls in the world.
blackisntdarkenough 2 years ago
Safe...!
Softchick24 2 years ago
Sure, he's human. Your understanding is written all over your video. I hope poor Jen has recovered.
swg4fnc 2 years ago
Yes, Jen has recovered. Hopefully you'll take the time to read the written video description to get a better understanding of why the video was posted. Hopefully...
diamondgames 2 years ago
Those are the calls when I wish there were 14 different Umps on the field....the ball wasn't in full control at the time.....I would have made the call...
TimmyB56789 2 years ago
What do you mean "the ball wasn't in full control at the time." The runner does NOT have to wait until the ball is caught. The runner can leave the base just as soon as the fielder TOUCHES the ball or is touched by the ball.
J12X 2 years ago
Timmy I think your thinking of football? Just like J12X, when the ball is TOUCHED by the fielder then the runner may go.
EliteSnipersVideos 2 years ago
If only the parents who complain about umpires missing calls would expect the same perfection from themselves and their children..........
30 pitches per inning for 7 innings + 10 calls at 3rd and home in an average game
220 decisions each game, maybe the umpire misses 5 total on a bad night...........hmmmmmm 97.73% decisions were correct.
Would love to see your boss go off on you and post a video for everything you do wrong during your work day!
dfwmale61 2 years ago
Please take the time to read the entire description of the video before drawing your conclusions. If I had wanted to show the the officials up I would have edited the video so viewers would have been able to recognize the them. The video was posted for the sake of constructive debate, and on the whole, that's exactly what it's produced.
diamondgames 2 years ago
Okay umpires screwed up on that play completely. She properly tagged for one. Two, since he knocked over the fence which made her go "out of play," all runners should receive 1 base, which would have protected the running from third not tagging properly, even though she did.
Team: 1 Umpire: 0
FroggerCod 2 years ago
How many umps were there?
I am assuming three since the base ump we see in the video is in the "D" position. This would mean that the catch is his call and the home plate umpire comes up the line to cover third while he is in the outfield. If there were three, the base ump should have been further out and the home plate ump should have been covering third.
If there were two umps, the base ump was out of position and the fly ball is the plate ump's call and the touch is the base ump's call
someoneinca 2 years ago
3 officials that day. The homeplate umpire drifted to his left (see shadow) and the ump near third base can be seen at the 1:26 mark walking towards centerfield. Funny thing is it wasn't until you posted your comments that I noticed the third base ump signaling "safe". Wouldn't this mean "no catch?". If this is the case there would have been no need to tag up to begin with! Interesting!
diamondgames 2 years ago
I noticed that he first signaled "out" at the beginning although it is hard to see. The signal you saw is "time." It appears to be a no catch signal but you can see the out signal for a split second as the camera zooms out at 0:16. I initially thought it was a no catch signal as well.
However, it is a time signal because the center fielder fell over a fence out of play. In this case the runners are given two bases, but still need to tag up.
He should have been a lot closer to the fence though
someoneinca 2 years ago
If it were my call i would have ruled it dead since it was out of play. but it should have been in the position of the home plate umpire to check and see if the runner tagged up. but then it depends on ur team. i have worked with guys where they make all fly ball calls
isaacfspr 3 years ago
From this angle (and its a poor angle to judge), I wouldn't make that call. But... the amount of time between the catch and the tag is less than half a second by my count. The runner was timing it. Made it a close play when it wasn't necessary on the deep fly. If she holds til the player is on the ground (and through the fence), she's still fast enough to be safe by a mile. I put that blame on the base coach: Hold the girl for 1 sec. No need to risk the tagup call at all.
allintheserve 2 years ago
your point?
luvgosselin 3 years ago
runner shouldve been awarded home cnterfielder bruoght ball out of play after catch everyone moves up one
15mnsn 3 years ago
OH WHO ONE!!! O.O im just a little nosey lol :3
KAEYUBIDEMON 3 years ago
The team that came out on the losing end of this call won.
softballfan 3 years ago
adame3383
I absolutely agree with you when you write that it's easier to make a call after view replay. We see it every night during telecasts of college and professional sporting events. I invite you to read my entire description for the video to see why I posted the video. Thanks for your thoughtful comments.
softballfan 3 years ago
First off you make a great argument, and it's tough to argue the other side but only when you use slow-mo replay. In the game the Umpire has to make sure the outfielder catches the ball. Here she left before the Umpire saw that the outfielder held onto the ball. It's easy to point out mistakes in slow-motion replay, but during a so called "bang-bang" play it's not so easy.
adame3383 3 years ago
"guess he human is an insult?
softballfan 3 years ago
"guess he human is an insult
critter2 3 years ago
7.04(c) prevails.
dano217 3 years ago
teaching your kid to complain about the umps...it's a game, relax and get a life
stnemmer 3 years ago
I've always liked the "get a life" line. Every time I see or hear it, well... it makes me want to get a life!
softballfan 3 years ago
that play is considered a catch then carry wen she went over the fence. Its a dead ball and the baserunner(s)advance 1 base
raiderbob85 3 years ago
This is absolutely a joke that you would take the time to post something like this...great parenting!
stnemmer 3 years ago
You're entitled to your opinion, though I doubt this video is reflective of my parenting skills.
softballfan 3 years ago