Actually, if you read the research papers on prone piloting, one of the key advantages of prone is the ability to go to higher g's before blacking out. The military did quite a few experiments on this back in the 1950's during the Pogo days. But prone has other disadvantages...
Never heard of this. This design is one of our older ones (from 2002), so maybe they saw it. Since it is govt work, there is no copyright to any of the work and it is open for public use - so good on them if they did.
Is the Channel wing of little use? Rather, I think it is a great STOL. Asymmeric prop load, I would guess is already solved by your design of a duct. Lip stall, is simply a limitation to angle of attack verses air speed, I'm guessing easily solved with computer fight controls. Poor aerodynamic efficiency is only relative to what you are comparing it too, Helicopter, sailplane? As a STOL the Channel 'seems' to be efficient compared to any standard STOL with slots and flaps. Channel Bush!
I have more Channel Wing data than anyone on the planet (except maybe Curly Custer). There were many problems with the channel wing, such as asymmeric prop loading, lip stall, poor aerodynamic efficiency, etc. Yes, wind tunnel tests showed the channel section would not stall all the way out to about 45 degrees, where max lift was generated (with a Clmax ~ 26 demonstrated - because power is going into the lift).
@NASAPAV How trustworthy is that what you wrote about the channel wing? Do you have a lot of data regarding that design? Because my studies follow closely what you wrote and I have never heard anyone else say that. So thanks in advance!
These are just general comments I am making - you can't design anything from them. You need to actually read the reports and look at the data, and perform the complete design. But the numbers I quoted are facts - which are not necessarily extensible if the geometry is changed (which I have certainly done in my designs). The reports do not conclusively show a working solution - they show intriguing results, and unique problems that need to be overcome - that's the engineering...
The Custer Channel wing flew very well. It's major problem is that it is out of the norm in appearance. As a UAV, appearance is not an issue, rather performance is. I think it has to has an angle of attack of 45% at take off and landing for maximum payload lift.
Which NASA did documented and studied several configuations in the 50/60's and conclude was practical. Perhaps, If for certain events cause by Igor S. and other parties, it may have found application.
I do see have control should not be difficult if you understand all the true forces at play. You have conand effect and with vortex rings inthe mix. Counter rotating props 170HP, Maybe 20mph stall
when I looked at the design.I can see that there's no upward lift at all. Maybe It's better to make the fans act like a gyroscope and upwards like a double bladed chopper than a plane.
I see One serious flaw when people are on their elbows to long they tend to begin to faulter which can be a serious issue if there were a way to allow people to lay on their back and use a video camera to see that would fix a lot of problems and prevent possible injuries
The duct act as non planar wings of relatively low span. Since it is powered-lift at low speed, the need for large span to decrease induced span during climb is not a concern. At cruise the ideal span would be about 14' for this weight vehicle, so it is a bit sub-optimal. You are simply used to seeing large span non-powered lift vehicles, and basing your opinion on a simple extrapolation of existing concepts - which is not valid.
@NASAPAV I was thinking that the lack of a traditional wingspan was more of a control issue. As in, there would be limited mobility in flight. However, the video isn't very descriptive. Therefore, I cannot presume whether the design has some sort of roll control surface or not. Also, there is no mention of powered lift in the description. Please do not patronize me in any further responses and excuse the straightforwardness of my own.
I am certainly not patronizing you, sorry if my response came across that way. Since the 'wings' or ducts have propellers in them, it is by definition powered-lift. Yes, there is control about all axes, with pitch, roll and yaw effectors. Actually there are several stability and control deficits in this particular model that do require attention.
i wil this Dual Spiral Wing.
TheSweetPinkBerry 4 weeks ago
cant handle too many g's in that position
toolbaggers 1 month ago
Actually, if you read the research papers on prone piloting, one of the key advantages of prone is the ability to go to higher g's before blacking out. The military did quite a few experiments on this back in the 1950's during the Pogo days. But prone has other disadvantages...
NASAPAV 1 month ago
Yes - but will he blend when he falls out ?
SALESPRODUCTIONS 3 months ago
This looks more feasable than the single rotor one though I'm no scientist I have built many unusual rc planes of my own design :D
MrROTD 4 months ago
@MrROTD oh and put some elestabilerons near the rear to give some control, just little ones,maybe a canard on the nose too why not? your welcome.
MrROTD 4 months ago
why wont they just build one and then test it and then sell it for lots of thousands of €?
cedric199870 5 months ago
Someone has been playing way to much escape velocity. This is a Krait!
NiklasEC 6 months ago
Never heard of this. This design is one of our older ones (from 2002), so maybe they saw it. Since it is govt work, there is no copyright to any of the work and it is open for public use - so good on them if they did.
NASAPAV 3 months ago
ill take mine in green please.
NeoNinjas 6 months ago
Is the Channel wing of little use? Rather, I think it is a great STOL. Asymmeric prop load, I would guess is already solved by your design of a duct. Lip stall, is simply a limitation to angle of attack verses air speed, I'm guessing easily solved with computer fight controls. Poor aerodynamic efficiency is only relative to what you are comparing it too, Helicopter, sailplane? As a STOL the Channel 'seems' to be efficient compared to any standard STOL with slots and flaps. Channel Bush!
Luminaring 8 months ago
I have more Channel Wing data than anyone on the planet (except maybe Curly Custer). There were many problems with the channel wing, such as asymmeric prop loading, lip stall, poor aerodynamic efficiency, etc. Yes, wind tunnel tests showed the channel section would not stall all the way out to about 45 degrees, where max lift was generated (with a Clmax ~ 26 demonstrated - because power is going into the lift).
NASAPAV 9 months ago
@NASAPAV How trustworthy is that what you wrote about the channel wing? Do you have a lot of data regarding that design? Because my studies follow closely what you wrote and I have never heard anyone else say that. So thanks in advance!
homebuiltindoorplane 3 months ago
These are just general comments I am making - you can't design anything from them. You need to actually read the reports and look at the data, and perform the complete design. But the numbers I quoted are facts - which are not necessarily extensible if the geometry is changed (which I have certainly done in my designs). The reports do not conclusively show a working solution - they show intriguing results, and unique problems that need to be overcome - that's the engineering...
NASAPAV 3 months ago
The Custer Channel wing flew very well. It's major problem is that it is out of the norm in appearance. As a UAV, appearance is not an issue, rather performance is. I think it has to has an angle of attack of 45% at take off and landing for maximum payload lift.
Luminaring 9 months ago
But will it blend?
notessimodude 10 months ago
This is a modern custer channel wing, right?
Which NASA did documented and studied several configuations in the 50/60's and conclude was practical. Perhaps, If for certain events cause by Igor S. and other parties, it may have found application.
I do see have control should not be difficult if you understand all the true forces at play. You have conand effect and with vortex rings inthe mix. Counter rotating props 170HP, Maybe 20mph stall
jester444 10 months ago
when I looked at the design.I can see that there's no upward lift at all. Maybe It's better to make the fans act like a gyroscope and upwards like a double bladed chopper than a plane.
narutolong97 10 months ago
Is the takeoff supposed to be that quick? The climb seems very steep for such a low speed and quick takeoff.
towerkeeper117 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Engine malfunction and you are dead.
octopusmagnificens 11 months ago
Engine malfunction and you are dead.
octopusmagnificens 11 months ago
@octopusmagnificens So, not that different from a helicopter then. They seem to be acceptable!
Pablosammy1 9 months ago
Oh fuck they made a banshee.
THEOMGVIDEOZ 1 year ago
I see One serious flaw when people are on their elbows to long they tend to begin to faulter which can be a serious issue if there were a way to allow people to lay on their back and use a video camera to see that would fix a lot of problems and prevent possible injuries
RIolumds 1 year ago
i can see flight not being any issue. but the design does indeed challenge my understanding of its low speed lift capability.
divebeforeyoulook 1 year ago
Comment removed
gusmerchan 1 year ago
it has no wings? not good.
suprTOONCES 1 year ago
The duct act as non planar wings of relatively low span. Since it is powered-lift at low speed, the need for large span to decrease induced span during climb is not a concern. At cruise the ideal span would be about 14' for this weight vehicle, so it is a bit sub-optimal. You are simply used to seeing large span non-powered lift vehicles, and basing your opinion on a simple extrapolation of existing concepts - which is not valid.
NASAPAV 1 year ago 4
@NASAPAV I was thinking that the lack of a traditional wingspan was more of a control issue. As in, there would be limited mobility in flight. However, the video isn't very descriptive. Therefore, I cannot presume whether the design has some sort of roll control surface or not. Also, there is no mention of powered lift in the description. Please do not patronize me in any further responses and excuse the straightforwardness of my own.
suprTOONCES 1 year ago
I am certainly not patronizing you, sorry if my response came across that way. Since the 'wings' or ducts have propellers in them, it is by definition powered-lift. Yes, there is control about all axes, with pitch, roll and yaw effectors. Actually there are several stability and control deficits in this particular model that do require attention.
NASAPAV 1 year ago 3
@suprTOONCES need a parachute recovery system damn it all these designs are nothing but flaws!!
crazyryan 6 months ago
@suprTOONCES
Its funny cause it's called dual spiral wing XDXD
RayTV100 4 months ago
brilliant design!
skorpen2 1 year ago