I totally agree that the fusion is NOT evidence for evolution. However by knowing the nature of how the fusion occured it defeats a potential falsification of evolution.
I don't understand what a legal court case has to do with the origin of living system? Living system reproduce and forms nested sets and chromosome 2 confirms this. The fact we have 23 pairs of chromosome could had falsified the theory of evolution, but it did not. Instead it confirm the nested hierarchy.
Your murder case has nothing in common with this. So what the are you talking about? I don't get it....
The Bible isnt evidence for Creation. Its a fustion of different books. As a matter of fact. There are references in the Bible to books that later Christians thought weren't enlightend enough to keep. But what if they were wrong. Then everyone is missing part of the Bible. And what makes the Catholic Bible any less or more valid than the Protastant Bible.
"A lot of scientists really don't know what they are missing by not exploring their spiritual feelings...I am unaware of any irreconcilable conflict between scientific knowledge about Evolution and the idea of a creator God. Why couldn't God use the mechanism of Evolution to create?" -- quoted by Francis Collins, Biologist & director of National Human Genome Research Institute, who turned from being an Atheist to a Christian.
@freelifeasia There is conflict between evolution and christianity because the bible says humans were created form dirt around 6000 years ago, and evolution says that humans and the great apes come from a common ancestor millions of years ago. Only one of those is backed by any evidence (an enormous amount actually) and that's evolution. If you say god used evolution to create humans then it isn't in conflict, but the claim is still baseless because there is no evidence for god
There is NO Conflict between Science and Religion, Chromosome #2 Fusion and having an Intelligent Designer who use Evolution to Create that Fusion. Even the guy in the Chromosome #2 video, Ken Miller said, "I would believe in a Designer, but not a Deceptive one." - Ken Miller, Evolution Biologist, Brown University
A fingerprint is proof positive that the person held the gun, not proof he killed the man. #2chromosome is proof we are Apes and like all the evidence is consistant with the Theory of Evolution.
What's the overwhelming urge in folks after experiencing an earthquake? It's to abandon their homes and to stay clear of all buildings. Why? Because they have lost faith in the structural integrity of these buildings. When will they return? Once the after-shocks have passed, repairs are made and the buildings are certified to be habitable by experts will faith be restored.
In Darwinian posters depicting the mythical line of ascension from simian to human: Modern Man leads the parade with monkeys, and the monkeyed, bringing up the rear.
OZ & THE SWINE FLU HOAX...Why does this doctor promote the mercury-preserved swine flu inoculation? In 2001 SIGA TECHNOLOGIES' board member Mehmet Oz bought 150,000 share options in SIGA TECHNOLOGIES @ $1.35 per share which is $202,500. SIGA is involved in the processing of swine flu inocu-lations. In October of 2009 a share was worth $7.10 which (times 150,000 shares) is $1,065,000. A tidy profit to Oz of $862,500.
“Be careful, as I might drop dead momentarily.” “Oh grand Spirit: take me back to the time when 28-year-old women were born in 1951...” “I'm looking to trade 2 quarts of blood from a Statler Brother for surgical instruments. Serious offers only! This Statler Brother slipped into a coma due to extreme blood-loss, so don't jerk me around about the blood's value.”
@Jacob7393 You might be getting npage's point but you're surely not getting Occam's razor. Science doesn't have to rule out anything, you have to prove that there is a creator in the first place. If you can't prove the existance of a creator, it's an assumption that it exists so according to Occam's razor your theory would not be the most probable one. Evolution assumes nothing, it counts on mutation and natural selection, both have been observed making it the most probable theory.
Ow, and although we're not solving a murder here, if you want to use that anology than a better description would be: There's videotape of you killing a guy, taped with 13 unrelated securitycams, in front of 100 people that have later all picked you from a line up and all state that they saw you shooting the guy and tossing the gun on the victim, just before people held you until the police came... and your fingerprints were found on the gun...
Chromosomal fusion is not circumstantial evidence, it's the only viable explanation for the almost identical DNA sequence for chimps chromosomes 2p and 2q combined and human chromosome 2. If you don't think chromosomes 2p and 2q fused through mutation but they were put together by an ID, you ARE adding an unnecessary assumption because mutation has been observed while an ID sticking chromomes together hasn't. And mutation implies we share a common ancestor.
i think finger prints are evidence that you probably came in contact with the gun.fingerprints are on hands and guns dont just have random finger prints on them(chromosomes have markers at certain points in them) if you havent touched the gun then your prints wouldnt be on it(if the chromosomes didnt fuse the markers wouldnt be in their current position)..gun powder residue+ fingerprints= you fired the weapon(two chromosomes separate in other primates combined in us indicates they fused)..guilty
Strong correlation basically equals causation. Great apes have 24 chromosome pairs; Humans have 23; Fruit flies have 4; Mouse has 20; Humans have one chromosome fused, otherwise we'd be apes with 24 chromosome pairs. The "other" types of chromosome fusion that all the creationist talk about are actually Robertsonian translocation.
a designer may not be unnecessary for the origins of life but it certainly is for the evolution of life. Chromosome 2 clearly demonstrates the predictive power of evolution theory and any good scientist knows that a theory is heavily judged on its predictive powers. We were able to look at a problem and say "if evolution is true we will surely find this" and find it we did. This is just one of MANY ways in which evolution is shown to be true.
Stop and think about what you're saying. Do you honestly believe that, all other things being equal, there's a jury on Earth that wouldn't convict you of murder if your fingerprint were on the trigger of a gun matching the ballistics of a fatal wound? Seriously?
Telomeres only exist at the ends of chromosomes; if they are found in the middle, that's evidence of a fusion so recent the genome hasn't even been able to amend it yet. To any objective observer, that would constitute compelling proof.
You are a deluded fool. This entire video leaves the viewer with a big "so what" at the end.
Since you cannot disprove an invisible creator, you are engaging in belief, not science. Instead, no matter what evidence is provided to you, you can always move the peg of "the creator" one step ahead ad nauseum, which is precisely what you are doing here. It is so abundantly clear, that if you cannot see it, then you are blind.
How is an intelligent designer not an unneccesary assumption?
If you see the finger of the clock moving every second do you suppose there is an invisable gnome in your clock? You can't prove it's an unneccassary assumption, therefore it must be true.
I really don't get that. I agree with the rest of your video here but seriously...
And what exactly are this guys credentials? "Direct evidence would be a valid true prediction from a theory".....evidence is a prediction? WHAT?? I'll stick to what the people who actually study this stuff have to say, not weekend warrior scientist wannabes.
Casuistry at it's finest. You have to make the totally improbable assumption of an intelligent designer which is simply beyond the pale in terms of reason. In reality Chromosome 2 is the result of the imbalanced electrons in the hypothalamus of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Please your wasting your time! The evidence is stacked against you. You have said nothing intelligent at all. Never has any statement you said had any true or meaningful purpose to disprove or even question theses theories. Your are only wasting peoples time and pulling others down with you. I hope you learn from your mistakes.
You are sad. Nature reveals itself as she is. If God came to earth today you would reject him if he claims he invented evolution, just because the bible says otherwise. You don't have faith in God. Your faith resides in a book. A false idol for which you have no explanation on how it came to be and follow blindly.
Very well presented. You know it would be so much nicer if we weren't fighting one another. Science is the study of God's creation. Science in their efforts to get rid of God are getting rid of His ethics as well. And in so doing are ruining whole societies.
What people who criticize that fusion as evidence don't get is that more important than the fusion itself are 1. the fact that without that fusion evolution would become an inadequate explanation and it's lack would strongly refute common descent of man and apes. 2. The only way to solve this problem was to PREDICT this fusion of two ape chromosomes into one human chromosome. This prediction was made some thirty years before sequencing the requisite genomes to prove the prediction.
Wow. I am speechless and at loss of words. Inanity best explains it. How can you say that fingerprints on a murder weapon is circumstantial when in court it is seen as incriminating evidence? My sister is a lawyer, my teacher is a lawyer and my neighbor is a lawyer. I asked them as you said. People whom spread lies because their self important view of the world is threatened sickens me. You should be ashamed.
@Killjeser This guy is a complete idiot. It never ceases to amaze me how people like this (with no experience in the field what so ever) will debate some one with years of not just the theory behind their professional discipline but hands on in the field digging up bones and splicing DNA and looking at it under a microscope and comparing with the findings of other Men and Woman whom are doing the same thing etc Yet these jackasses will muck up the waters of logic with this crap
I don't think I could spin that argument faster if it was in a wind tunnel? The evidence is in the content of these two genomes of two different species of primate (man and chimp). Chimps, Orangutans, Gorillas and Humans are comparable within each group;
Humans are the odd-man out because of chromosome count. Those are the hereditary structures that template how the organism will form and function. We just 'paternity' tested 2 species and we are cousins.
Atheists, um.. I mean evolutionists follow this pattern: They are challenged, they get angry, and then they begin to hurl insults like five year old children on a playground. "You're dummbbbb and we're smart! na na na na (sticks tongue out). We wont accept anything other than naturalism because WE dont understand it! You play by OUR rules of science or we're taking our ball and going home. Waaaaaaaaa...... "
I can prove it scientifically. If you are, look in the mirror. Walk away. Now repeat
Ok, lets go with your assertion. Explain why knowing the exact locations of the fused chromosome in both chimp & man is not evidence for Evolution? Also, please invalidate the retroviral dna, which was also claimed as evidence for Evolution.
One more question. Why didn't any of the Creationists at the trial use your argument to deny the chromosome fusion is evidence for Evolution?
The fingerprint isn't analogous to the fused Chromosone. In order for evidence to be circumstantial, the proposed incident has to be dependent on it for it to remain true. The murder or your involvement doesn't require the fingerprint at all. However, the extra chromosone has to exist or evolution is not true.
The evidence neither claims the theory of evolution to be true or false, but rather that it is still valid, making the model a reliable predictor.
Fusion IS predicted by common ancestry as a way to explain the missing pair of chromosomes in this case. The prediction was verified as true, therefore it IS direct evidence.
Fusion IS predicted by common ancestry as a way to explain the missing pair of chromosomes in this case. The prediction was verified as true, therefore it IS direct evidence.
Fusion IS predicted by common ancestry as a way to explain the missing pair of chromosomes in this case. The prediction was verified as true, therefore it IS direct evidence.
anything is consistent with intelligent design. intelligent design cannot make any predictions because intelligent design can literally make anything happen. therefore intelligent design is useless.
Nonsense. Just as the burden of proof rests on your lawyer to show that somebody stole your gun, similarly the burden of proof rests on intelligent design proponents.
In your example, imagine if the defending lawyer said "You can't PROVE that somebody didn't steal my client's gun." That's a flawed shifting of the burden of proof. That lawyer can't use his argument unless he can show that somebody did steal the gun.
The fusion would have to be there in order to support the heaps of facts already known about the link to chimps and bonobos. Intelligent design is only supported if one ignores the time lone of appearance in genetic record. Because we went through the trouble of doing the entire genome for the chimp and bonobo we know where along the line the fusion occurred. Still work to be done on the RNA to firm it up the time, but his "creator" it seems, would have had to have created one then the other.
In other words, while the case for evolution did not necessarily get much stronger, this already robust theory held firm against what could've been a serious dent. It's somewhat like a besieged city that held out against the enemy. No considerable gain, but a great loss was avoided.
This was all very reasonably argued. Personally, I would like to add something. When the discrepancy in chromosome number between humans and other apes was discovered, it posed a potentially disastrous threat to evolutionary theory. The subsequent discovery of the fusion negated the possible inconsistency that would've otherwise dealt Darwinism a hard blow. What's most important here is not so much the existence of new circumstantial evidence as the absence of direct contradiction.
Chromosome 2 fusion is not circumstantial evidence. It is direct evidence because it confirms a prediction following from evolutionary theory.
Whole chromosome loss is fatal in primates. Therefore, fusion of two chromosomes is the only possible way evolutionary theory permits the reduction in number of chromosomes in the primate taxon.
If the chromosome had been lost in any other way, evolutionary theory would be in severe trouble explaining this. However, results confirm the prediction.
Circumstantial evidence is more powerful then how you describe. Without any competing falsifiable theory circumstantial (or non falisifiying) evidence is very powerful. The more facts we find that can explain a larger set of facts the more secure our position is, This is how theories grow and develop. IF THERE WERE NO fused chromosones htis would be a serious blow to evolution - but is wasnt the case so it isnt.
It's not circumstantial evidence. Why would god put telomeres in the middle of a chromosome? That makes no sense. They serve no purpose there. It does make sense if evolution is true.
At the end of chromosomes are genetic markers called telomeres. They mark the end of a chromosome. Therefore fusing a chromosome would mean that the telomere would be in the middle (or at least not at the end) of the chromosome -- which is exactly what is found in the human chromosome 2.
Why would an intelligent designer do this? It would be inconsistent with the word "intelligent".
So please quit using your stupid analogies and do some studying in biology.
The question: All primates have 48 chro. except Humans. Why?
Answer Because 2 have been fused. The direct evidence. Chro. 2. Which is identical to the ape chro.s. with 1 part Still there but deactivated. Watch Nogin maybe youll learn something.
Chromosome fusion in human embreyos is fatal and causes gross deformity if it occurs after birth. Natural Selection would remove such a creature from the gene pool. Sorry.
Neph (Free of the fallen ones), Go to wikipedia and type in Chromosone 2. Or better yet go to Google and type in Chromosone 2 and click on the first link. then read and BELIEVE.
Question: What rotated when the Earth was formless and void before the sun was created to make the first day? Scientifically speaking of course.
I've already studied the chromosome 2 thing. Chromosome 2 is not evidence of ancestry. Humans were designed to have 46 chromosomes, apes were designed to have 48. DNA has proven design. This alone puts the chromosome 2 claim in the trash can.
God set it all in motion. That is why uranus rotates on it's side in relation to the sun and it's moons roatate at 90 degrees from it's roational axis - all of which nulifies the evolutionist's Accretion Disk theiory. In astonomy, we see creation.
DNA has proven design? Implying a designer. Right. And immaterial information, algorithms, and linguistics cannot be produced by nature? You were the one typing when that was written right. Are you implying you are a diety. Because you speak and language cannot be produced in nature. So how many years ago was it when you created the earth?
Information, algorithms, and linguistics law are things molecules cannot create. They are immaterial. nature cannot be the maker of NDA therefore. Now, if you think you can cite an example whereby molecules can crreate any of these, you go ahead and let us know.
A First Cause can't have a cause. There can't be an infinite number of 1st causes - the present moment in time would be unatainable. Therefore there's a First Cause for all things. Since it chose to create insterad of allowing nothingness to continue, it's a mind. Since the explaination for the origin of something cannot be found within itself, such as the universe, it is oputside of time space and matter, and that means SUPERnatural.
Any "cause" complex enough to create other things either arose from accreted simplicity or was created. I'll grant you that a god may exist, but if it does, it either arose gradually from simplicity over vast periods of time (like our universe for example), or had a creator of its own that did.
"supernatural" is an oxymoron. A thing beyond existence. If it is outside existence, it can't exist.
Slapping "first" on it dodges the question in pseudo-logic; creates more questions.
For what it is worth, this notion is consistent with the findings of modern physics in regards to the condition of the universe: specifically, the universe had a beginning.
How can a first cause have a cause? How can a being outside of time space and matter depend upon time space and matter?
The fact that God is eternal is difficult for some to grasp because humans cannot truly comprehend eternity. It does not work well in our mortal, limited minds.
By the very slow accumulation of complexity over vast lengths of time from simple beginnings.
Anything else is you stretching your mortal, limited mind in ways that make you happy but don't fit the evidence. You're a hypocrite, you claim that our minds can't understand god and eternity, but also that YOU do understand. Or that it's difficult for some (like trained cosmologists and particle physicists) but you get it. You worked it all out.
The concept that energy always has and always will exist is the exact same thing.. except that unlike god, energy is testable, observable and repeatable.
You're reaching desperately into areas you clearly know nothing about that wikipedia didn't tell you. How bout just being honest?
Right now you are bordering on being intentionally ignorant. The truth is right there in front of you but like a child you're sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming so you don't have to hear it..
Lol. Stumped by what? You're not actually arguing anything, you're making assertions, unsupported by evidence, that you somehow can understand something that you yourself said can't be understood. You're arguing that genetic fusion is "bad" when it clearly isn't.
You haven't stumped anyone, you're arguing with phantoms using fairy tales.
The insults are because you are thickheaded and dim and its fun to hear the hollow echoes when an idea tries to pierce your head.
@864208642 agreed completely, he said even in this video that the fusion was not predicted. maybe if he had done what you suggest and watched the video. he would have actually seen that it was a prediction that it was fused and thats why they looked for it in the first place
DNA is information stored with algorithms which conforms to linguistics law, all of which are immaterial. The
material cannot create that which is immaterial! Information, algorithms, and linguistics cannot be produced
by nature! This is imperical evidence that all life is a product of intelligence. Intelligence is mind. Since nature cannot produce these, they can only be a product of a supernatural mind.
Wow. Just when I thought we had reached the bottom of the pit of ignorance when it comes to science and biology, I find some doorknob on youtube that has apparently located a shovel.
Well congrats npage! I recommend you take your astounding achievement and publish your findings. I mean, why relegate this incredible find to just youtube? Perhaps a research paper and a debate with Ken Miller is in order?
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The HOX genes of humans and apes are in different locations in their chromosomes, and in different chromosomes! By itself, this proves human and ape DNA could not be related.
I did record them. Do a search and dig around and find the names and locations of the HOX genes of humans and those of chimps. I did, and I wish I had kept the sources. You can find them though it will take time and work. This information is not made freely available because evolutionists like to keep the best evidence against evolution quiet.
This is true of most families of animals - thier HOX genes are in different place. There's a YT video of Don Patton describing this.
@npage85 ~~Geez...bet you haven't found it yet, have you? That's because Nephy lied...see Cytochrome C for the answer to your questions....btw, you won't like it....
npage85-----Evolution took a huge chance when it predicted to find a FUSED chromosome. Evolution stated that if they didn't find it, Humans and Modern Ape DIDN'T have a common ancestor. Jeez...you people really try....
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Chrosmosome fusion is a known genetic disease. In humans, it's fatal when it occurs to embryos. In adults it causes horrible diseases or death. Evolution could not take place by such a thing. Fusions, if it could have occurred, would have eliminated the animal by Natural Selection. The imaginary fusion is therefore impossible to be factual.
"Wolf-Hirschhorn syndrome ... Subsequent cytogenetic studies revealed a chromosomal deletion of the short arm of chromosome 4. Clinical features include mental retardation, seizures, distinct facial appearance, and midline closure defects. The former Pitt-Rogers-Danks syndromes, caused by overlapping 4p deletions, now are considered as a part of Wolf-Hirschhorn syndrome."
w w w . dmoz . o r g / Health / Conditions_and_Diseases / Genetic_Disorders / desc . h t m l
If fusuion occurred, one of the TATTAs would be removed by recombination. That's deletion. It would renfer 2 genes as one package of information. This is one reason fusion of chromosomes is deadly.
Thanks for demonstraing once again that you are an ignorant buffoon and one of the leading asshats on YouTube. You know no more of genetics and biology than one of my fatassed cats.
... middle where it doesn't belong. You have made no case for why God would do that. Why would the intelligent designer create unnecessarily complicated and confusing patterns in his world, when a simpler model would work just fine. It's almost as though the designer was trying to trick us into thinking humans and apes shared common ancestry. This is when I tell my client, "No court is going to believe that. They're going to accept the simpler answer - you did it. Time to plea bargain."
I'm an attorney who defends people like your imaginary shooter. I agree that it is critical to find an alternative explanation for the circumstantial evidence consistent with your innocence (with Design). BUT, to get a jury to buy your alternative explanation, it must be logical. What you fail to explain is why an intelligent designer who had a perfectly good 48 chromosome model going with the other apes would chose to make humans with a chromosome with 2 centromeres and a telomere in the ...
Wolf-Hirschhorn syndrome was first documented in 1961: a child with midline fusion defects. Subsequent cytogenetic studies revealed a chromosomal deletion of the short arm of chromosome 4. Clinical features include mental retardation, seizures, distinct facial appearance, and midline closure defects. The former Pitt-Rogers-Danks syndromes, caused by overlapping 4p deletions, now are considered as a part of Wolf-Hirschhorn syndrome.
Evolution has much more evidence. Furthermore Kenneth Miller admited that there could be an intelligent designer. Then he concluded that that intelligent designer must be a designer to fool us. Now can there be a designer with the purpose to fool us? Of course there can. Furthermore Kenneth rejects this for theological reasons rather than scientific ones. He doesn't believe in a designer that is fooling us so he then concludes this is evidence for commom ancestry.
"why does the evolution photo always show the apes evolving directly into a white man (lol) is this so they dont offend black people? "
On the contrary, it implicitly implies a higher degree of evolution of whites (i.e. racism). I watched another evolution video on chromosome 2 that showed 3 great apes and a black woman! I'm not black, but this is offensive. Again, they are using visual imagery for their own purposes. In the latter case to show the SIMILARITY of the 4 species! Sickening.
what do you mean its not predicted!!! Most primates have 24 pairs of chromosomes we have 23 so if we have a common ancestor of those primates, either all the other primates got an extra pair (less likely) or we somehow lost one (more likely). Now to lose a chromosome it would either have to just get deleted (which would cause that species to die out due to such a massive loss of information) or 2 got fused into one. So we predicted 2 got fused into 1.... AND that's what we found!!!!
Why do people insist in arguing with the most intelligent people in the world when they are no where close to understanding the evidence set before them
what in the world makes you think they are the most intelligent people? if they were so smart wouldn't they had figure out the whole world peace issue and starvation and blah blah blah... NO! they're too busy having their head stuck up their ape rectums or either spaced out somewhere, YOU FOOL... i spit on scientists!
Christian George W. Bush is an oxymoron fool, learn what christian is first... even I know that... man how much more stupidity and ignorance are you primates capable of storing in your apelike brains?
So in summary, man's language was confused by God, all civilizations arose shortly after the flood, and language itself proves it.
Some day, if your attitude toward God changes, perhaps you will break free of the brainwashing of godless people and become your own man with your own mind capable of both understanding things and seeing truth on your own. The road ahead for you is harsh unless you do.
that story is no more true and has no more proof than the story of the murdering tyrant you claim to have masterfully enslaved humans for his selfish purpose of entertainment
difference between me and you, I don't care what created me nor do I follow some bloke who claims some invisible being made him a prophet after he raped 10 boys and repented 100 time.
I don't need an after life, If you need one fine but, shut your gob and stop force feeding BS humans are dumb enough..
ok here is how everything came to be. 3000 years ago, the fuffy bunny troop of zector had sex and in doing so created a riff in space and time which caused a thunder bolt to smash into an ester egg, causing this egg to mutate into what is now known as earth. the fluffy bunny troop seen what the had created and said it needs decor so they formed the human shape from lumps of rabbit poo. and the rest is well history....
god following numb nuts haven't changed a single bit.
I am a leader I allow no one to control or run my life not even a god. so go ahead continue to be a pet of something that does not exsist. just stupid who cares
VERY CLEVER using an argument about what constitutes evidence -- I actually admire your mind and educat' -- WHILE AVOIDING REAL ISSUE HERE!
Sorry npage85, but you lose. & so does your fundie religion. The REAL POINT is that chimps have 99%+ genetic material in common with us. AND Neanderthals, perhaps other hominid species have been analyzed. They are even closer to us, but not so close that they could possibly be another division of Homo Sapiens. More evidence2come, meanwhile: CHECKMATE!
Just because you say check mate does not make it check mate. The difference between me and a chimp is actually 95%, I study the genome research very closely. They are working on the chimp DNA and it is 95%. So humans have 3.2 billion base pairs of DNA.....a 5% difference is 160 million...please comment on that fact. Thank you.
A man was exploring in a jungle...he pushed aside a bush and found a piping system with 60 thousand miles of pipes and a pump that could last for 120 years and move 50 million gallons of liquid by pumping 3 ounces at a time. He went back to harvard and siad: "I wonder who made it?" the harvard peeps said "no no no...we must find a natural solution, belief in a designer is religious."
Billy, when 60 thousand miles of pipes find a way to reproduce and make children, then I'll buy your "analogy". Until THAT happens you can see cdk007's video on the blind watchmaker:
Oz, are the people at Harvard open mined or close minded if they demand I find a natural explanation for the piping system? Please answer the question. Thank you.
"Oz, are the people at Harvard open mined or close minded if they demand I find a natural explanation for the piping system?"
-- If **ANYBODY** at Harvard demands that you find a natural explanation of 60k miles of pipes and a pump, then they would not be open or close minded: they would be absent minded (just like your analogy)!
No pipes do not reproduce and neither do blood vessels. When you get married I will explain reproduction to you...just kidding! Come on now...is the human circulator system by design or by chance...it is an easy question!
Put a random rock in a shot glass. If it doesn't fit perfectly try another rock. Keep doing this until you find one that fits
It would be so unlikely that you would likely conclude "That rock was made to fit in the shot glass" if found.
Now, pour a liquid of your choice into the shot glass. It fits perfectly! Does this mean that the liquid was 'designed' to fit in the shot glass? Or is it simply the properties of the liquid conforming it to its container?
It means you put a rock in a shot glass and then a liquid. My question to you, is do you think 60,000 miles of blood vessels is the result of design (plan) or chance (unplanned). Thank you!
I totally agree that the fusion is NOT evidence for evolution. However by knowing the nature of how the fusion occured it defeats a potential falsification of evolution.
pilgrimpater 2 months ago
I don't understand what a legal court case has to do with the origin of living system? Living system reproduce and forms nested sets and chromosome 2 confirms this. The fact we have 23 pairs of chromosome could had falsified the theory of evolution, but it did not. Instead it confirm the nested hierarchy.
Your murder case has nothing in common with this. So what the are you talking about? I don't get it....
jomen112 5 months ago
The Bible isnt evidence for Creation. Its a fustion of different books. As a matter of fact. There are references in the Bible to books that later Christians thought weren't enlightend enough to keep. But what if they were wrong. Then everyone is missing part of the Bible. And what makes the Catholic Bible any less or more valid than the Protastant Bible.
864208642 7 months ago
"A lot of scientists really don't know what they are missing by not exploring their spiritual feelings...I am unaware of any irreconcilable conflict between scientific knowledge about Evolution and the idea of a creator God. Why couldn't God use the mechanism of Evolution to create?" -- quoted by Francis Collins, Biologist & director of National Human Genome Research Institute, who turned from being an Atheist to a Christian.
freelifeasia 1 year ago
@freelifeasia There is conflict between evolution and christianity because the bible says humans were created form dirt around 6000 years ago, and evolution says that humans and the great apes come from a common ancestor millions of years ago. Only one of those is backed by any evidence (an enormous amount actually) and that's evolution. If you say god used evolution to create humans then it isn't in conflict, but the claim is still baseless because there is no evidence for god
vicksoma 1 year ago
There is NO Conflict between Science and Religion, Chromosome #2 Fusion and having an Intelligent Designer who use Evolution to Create that Fusion. Even the guy in the Chromosome #2 video, Ken Miller said, "I would believe in a Designer, but not a Deceptive one." - Ken Miller, Evolution Biologist, Brown University
"God doesn't play dice." - Albert Einstein
freelifeasia 1 year ago
@freelifeasia "Don't tell God what to do" - Neils Bohr.
lethalsub 2 months ago
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freelifeasia 1 year ago
Eye-witness evidence is weaker, and hearsay is almost no evidence at all.
Bear that in mind when you read the Gospel.
Gorteenminogue 1 year ago
I watched the entire video and you have YET to prove that Chromosome 2 isnt evidence for common ancestory with the great apes.
wowamonn 1 year ago
Logic dictates that the human brain is finite in its capacity and therefor, as logic dictates, incapable of fathoming the infinite.
CelestialEmbodiment 1 year ago
A fingerprint is proof positive that the person held the gun, not proof he killed the man. #2chromosome is proof we are Apes and like all the evidence is consistant with the Theory of Evolution.
ID is extra bull shit, no proof, not necessary.
gregrutz 1 year ago
What's the overwhelming urge in folks after experiencing an earthquake? It's to abandon their homes and to stay clear of all buildings. Why? Because they have lost faith in the structural integrity of these buildings. When will they return? Once the after-shocks have passed, repairs are made and the buildings are certified to be habitable by experts will faith be restored.
CelestialEmbodiment 1 year ago
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@CelestialEmbodiment Who gives a shit about what you think.
gregrutz 1 year ago
@gardengxc : A confirmed hypothesis? That's a conflict of terms in the spirit of the I.R.S.'s "voluntary compliance."
CelestialEmbodiment 1 year ago
In Darwinian posters depicting the mythical line of ascension from simian to human: Modern Man leads the parade with monkeys, and the monkeyed, bringing up the rear.
CelestialEmbodiment 1 year ago
@CelestialEmbodiment You are fucked up and don't even understand evolution.
gregrutz 1 year ago
@gregrutz : Is this a forum for your personal problems?
CelestialEmbodiment 1 year ago
Peer review is Orwellian GROUPTHINK.
CelestialEmbodiment 1 year ago
OZ & THE SWINE FLU HOAX...Why does this doctor promote the mercury-preserved swine flu inoculation? In 2001 SIGA TECHNOLOGIES' board member Mehmet Oz bought 150,000 share options in SIGA TECHNOLOGIES @ $1.35 per share which is $202,500. SIGA is involved in the processing of swine flu inocu-lations. In October of 2009 a share was worth $7.10 which (times 150,000 shares) is $1,065,000. A tidy profit to Oz of $862,500.
CelestialEmbodiment 1 year ago
@gardengxc : Here we go with "the dude factor."
CelestialEmbodiment 1 year ago
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CelestialEmbodiment 1 year ago
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“Be careful, as I might drop dead momentarily.” “Oh grand Spirit: take me back to the time when 28-year-old women were born in 1951...” “I'm looking to trade 2 quarts of blood from a Statler Brother for surgical instruments. Serious offers only! This Statler Brother slipped into a coma due to extreme blood-loss, so don't jerk me around about the blood's value.”
CelestialEmbodiment 1 year ago
you talk without actually saying anything. no focus.
noshio1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
so, what you're saying is that it was GOD who took the ape chromosomes and made them into human ones?
aptisme 1 year ago
Wow, are you this dumb or just acting for the camera?
devinharris34 1 year ago
@Jacob7393 You might be getting npage's point but you're surely not getting Occam's razor. Science doesn't have to rule out anything, you have to prove that there is a creator in the first place. If you can't prove the existance of a creator, it's an assumption that it exists so according to Occam's razor your theory would not be the most probable one. Evolution assumes nothing, it counts on mutation and natural selection, both have been observed making it the most probable theory.
MindB0ggling 1 year ago
Ow, and although we're not solving a murder here, if you want to use that anology than a better description would be: There's videotape of you killing a guy, taped with 13 unrelated securitycams, in front of 100 people that have later all picked you from a line up and all state that they saw you shooting the guy and tossing the gun on the victim, just before people held you until the police came... and your fingerprints were found on the gun...
MindB0ggling 1 year ago
Chromosomal fusion is not circumstantial evidence, it's the only viable explanation for the almost identical DNA sequence for chimps chromosomes 2p and 2q combined and human chromosome 2. If you don't think chromosomes 2p and 2q fused through mutation but they were put together by an ID, you ARE adding an unnecessary assumption because mutation has been observed while an ID sticking chromomes together hasn't. And mutation implies we share a common ancestor.
MindB0ggling 1 year ago
i think finger prints are evidence that you probably came in contact with the gun.fingerprints are on hands and guns dont just have random finger prints on them(chromosomes have markers at certain points in them) if you havent touched the gun then your prints wouldnt be on it(if the chromosomes didnt fuse the markers wouldnt be in their current position)..gun powder residue+ fingerprints= you fired the weapon(two chromosomes separate in other primates combined in us indicates they fused)..guilty
notgoneconform 1 year ago
Strong correlation basically equals causation. Great apes have 24 chromosome pairs; Humans have 23; Fruit flies have 4; Mouse has 20; Humans have one chromosome fused, otherwise we'd be apes with 24 chromosome pairs. The "other" types of chromosome fusion that all the creationist talk about are actually Robertsonian translocation.
NoUsez0r 1 year ago
a designer may not be unnecessary for the origins of life but it certainly is for the evolution of life. Chromosome 2 clearly demonstrates the predictive power of evolution theory and any good scientist knows that a theory is heavily judged on its predictive powers. We were able to look at a problem and say "if evolution is true we will surely find this" and find it we did. This is just one of MANY ways in which evolution is shown to be true.
TheAmazingLeztits 1 year ago
So this intelligent designer is trying to trick you by making it look like evolution happened?
Botzu 1 year ago
Stop and think about what you're saying. Do you honestly believe that, all other things being equal, there's a jury on Earth that wouldn't convict you of murder if your fingerprint were on the trigger of a gun matching the ballistics of a fatal wound? Seriously?
Telomeres only exist at the ends of chromosomes; if they are found in the middle, that's evidence of a fusion so recent the genome hasn't even been able to amend it yet. To any objective observer, that would constitute compelling proof.
PatchesRips 1 year ago
You are a deluded fool. This entire video leaves the viewer with a big "so what" at the end.
Since you cannot disprove an invisible creator, you are engaging in belief, not science. Instead, no matter what evidence is provided to you, you can always move the peg of "the creator" one step ahead ad nauseum, which is precisely what you are doing here. It is so abundantly clear, that if you cannot see it, then you are blind.
roberttschaefer 1 year ago
Wait.... what?
How is an intelligent designer not an unneccesary assumption?
If you see the finger of the clock moving every second do you suppose there is an invisable gnome in your clock? You can't prove it's an unneccassary assumption, therefore it must be true.
I really don't get that. I agree with the rest of your video here but seriously...
Drecon84 1 year ago
And what exactly are this guys credentials? "Direct evidence would be a valid true prediction from a theory".....evidence is a prediction? WHAT?? I'll stick to what the people who actually study this stuff have to say, not weekend warrior scientist wannabes.
missingbeagle 1 year ago
Casuistry at it's finest. You have to make the totally improbable assumption of an intelligent designer which is simply beyond the pale in terms of reason. In reality Chromosome 2 is the result of the imbalanced electrons in the hypothalamus of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
equsnarnd 1 year ago
Please your wasting your time! The evidence is stacked against you. You have said nothing intelligent at all. Never has any statement you said had any true or meaningful purpose to disprove or even question theses theories. Your are only wasting peoples time and pulling others down with you. I hope you learn from your mistakes.
Your Welcome
byrumsocr 1 year ago
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rich0s1 1 year ago
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rich0s1 1 year ago
You are sad. Nature reveals itself as she is. If God came to earth today you would reject him if he claims he invented evolution, just because the bible says otherwise. You don't have faith in God. Your faith resides in a book. A false idol for which you have no explanation on how it came to be and follow blindly.
Killjeser 1 year ago
Your logic is severely flawed.
In your scenario, you want to introduce an even more complex "intelligent designer?"
That is absolutely an unnecessary assumption. You are dead in the water right there.
judoyodan 1 year ago
Very well presented. You know it would be so much nicer if we weren't fighting one another. Science is the study of God's creation. Science in their efforts to get rid of God are getting rid of His ethics as well. And in so doing are ruining whole societies.
edgarnevis 1 year ago
The problem is that fusion IS predicted by common ancestry given the number of chromosomes of apes and people.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago 2
What people who criticize that fusion as evidence don't get is that more important than the fusion itself are 1. the fact that without that fusion evolution would become an inadequate explanation and it's lack would strongly refute common descent of man and apes. 2. The only way to solve this problem was to PREDICT this fusion of two ape chromosomes into one human chromosome. This prediction was made some thirty years before sequencing the requisite genomes to prove the prediction.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
Wow. I am speechless and at loss of words. Inanity best explains it. How can you say that fingerprints on a murder weapon is circumstantial when in court it is seen as incriminating evidence? My sister is a lawyer, my teacher is a lawyer and my neighbor is a lawyer. I asked them as you said. People whom spread lies because their self important view of the world is threatened sickens me. You should be ashamed.
Killjeser 1 year ago 2
@Killjeser This guy is a complete idiot. It never ceases to amaze me how people like this (with no experience in the field what so ever) will debate some one with years of not just the theory behind their professional discipline but hands on in the field digging up bones and splicing DNA and looking at it under a microscope and comparing with the findings of other Men and Woman whom are doing the same thing etc Yet these jackasses will muck up the waters of logic with this crap
HOODYWOODRECORDS 1 year ago
I don't think I could spin that argument faster if it was in a wind tunnel? The evidence is in the content of these two genomes of two different species of primate (man and chimp). Chimps, Orangutans, Gorillas and Humans are comparable within each group;
Humans are the odd-man out because of chromosome count. Those are the hereditary structures that template how the organism will form and function. We just 'paternity' tested 2 species and we are cousins.
granddad2002 1 year ago
You're stupid. I don't know how else to put it.
firewallx 1 year ago
Atheists, um.. I mean evolutionists follow this pattern: They are challenged, they get angry, and then they begin to hurl insults like five year old children on a playground. "You're dummbbbb and we're smart! na na na na (sticks tongue out). We wont accept anything other than naturalism because WE dont understand it! You play by OUR rules of science or we're taking our ball and going home. Waaaaaaaaa...... "
I can prove it scientifically. If you are, look in the mirror. Walk away. Now repeat
a211464 1 year ago
Ok, lets go with your assertion. Explain why knowing the exact locations of the fused chromosome in both chimp & man is not evidence for Evolution? Also, please invalidate the retroviral dna, which was also claimed as evidence for Evolution.
One more question. Why didn't any of the Creationists at the trial use your argument to deny the chromosome fusion is evidence for Evolution?
Cootabux 1 year ago
If your finger print was on the gun that killed the man then you WOULD be convicted of murder
arealisticone 1 year ago
The fingerprint isn't analogous to the fused Chromosone. In order for evidence to be circumstantial, the proposed incident has to be dependent on it for it to remain true. The murder or your involvement doesn't require the fingerprint at all. However, the extra chromosone has to exist or evolution is not true.
The evidence neither claims the theory of evolution to be true or false, but rather that it is still valid, making the model a reliable predictor.
Spectre11B 1 year ago 7
This has been flagged as spam show
Fusion IS predicted by common ancestry as a way to explain the missing pair of chromosomes in this case. The prediction was verified as true, therefore it IS direct evidence.
Ranoake 1 year ago
Fusion IS predicted by common ancestry as a way to explain the missing pair of chromosomes in this case. The prediction was verified as true, therefore it IS direct evidence.
Ranoake 1 year ago
Fusion IS predicted by common ancestry as a way to explain the missing pair of chromosomes in this case. The prediction was verified as true, therefore it IS direct evidence.
Ranoake 1 year ago
anything is consistent with intelligent design. intelligent design cannot make any predictions because intelligent design can literally make anything happen. therefore intelligent design is useless.
patternmachine 1 year ago 4
Your a creationist, you make no sense at all.
1hotatheist 1 year ago
sir you're an ass
vishnusinghtrinidad 1 year ago
I find it funny that people are so obsessed with the narcissistic delusion of superiority they go nuts at the very mention that they are wimpy apes.
It's in these situations where ego blinds people from reality ( faith) that we can see just how dangerous the thought process is.
yubarraboo 1 year ago
Please, please provide us with the "direct evidence" that goddidit.
I'd guess you can't
palatinus1 1 year ago
@palatinus1 Or just direct evidence of god...oh thats right, you can't because there is no such thing...lol
1hotatheist 1 year ago
Intriguing...
GMPLAS7 1 year ago
/FACEPALM
Wow.
Just... Wow.
IRrationalists, UNTIE!
MethodicalMadness 1 year ago
Idiot!!!
Telenut69 2 years ago
Nonsense. Just as the burden of proof rests on your lawyer to show that somebody stole your gun, similarly the burden of proof rests on intelligent design proponents.
In your example, imagine if the defending lawyer said "You can't PROVE that somebody didn't steal my client's gun." That's a flawed shifting of the burden of proof. That lawyer can't use his argument unless he can show that somebody did steal the gun.
FiverBeyond 2 years ago
The fusion would have to be there in order to support the heaps of facts already known about the link to chimps and bonobos. Intelligent design is only supported if one ignores the time lone of appearance in genetic record. Because we went through the trouble of doing the entire genome for the chimp and bonobo we know where along the line the fusion occurred. Still work to be done on the RNA to firm it up the time, but his "creator" it seems, would have had to have created one then the other.
PaleHearse 2 years ago
In other words, while the case for evolution did not necessarily get much stronger, this already robust theory held firm against what could've been a serious dent. It's somewhat like a besieged city that held out against the enemy. No considerable gain, but a great loss was avoided.
TranslatorCarminum 2 years ago
This was all very reasonably argued. Personally, I would like to add something. When the discrepancy in chromosome number between humans and other apes was discovered, it posed a potentially disastrous threat to evolutionary theory. The subsequent discovery of the fusion negated the possible inconsistency that would've otherwise dealt Darwinism a hard blow. What's most important here is not so much the existence of new circumstantial evidence as the absence of direct contradiction.
TranslatorCarminum 2 years ago 2
Duh?! Creationism is consistent with anything you can ever imagine to find in biology. You can always say: that's the way the designer made it...
jnoort 2 years ago
Chromosome 2 fusion is not circumstantial evidence. It is direct evidence because it confirms a prediction following from evolutionary theory.
Whole chromosome loss is fatal in primates. Therefore, fusion of two chromosomes is the only possible way evolutionary theory permits the reduction in number of chromosomes in the primate taxon.
If the chromosome had been lost in any other way, evolutionary theory would be in severe trouble explaining this. However, results confirm the prediction.
singring76 2 years ago
Come on, you don't have to make a fool out of yourself and try to prove something stupid and false in a youtube video.
gabryhyrule007 2 years ago
@npage85
What exactly does intelligent design predict?
And how is it falsifiable?
So far all I've seen you argue is that a designer made it that way, but you and the ID movement in general offer no evidence.
"Just look at it", you say. "It's obviously designed."
"Uh... no. Not really. There's nothing obvious about it. Could you point out the bit that's obvious?" we say.
And you change the subject.
You're confusing creation with construction I'm afraid.
thisisanaccount100 2 years ago
what an idiot,i think this video could be used as ''circumstantial'' evidence for that.
gordhead100 2 years ago
Circumstantial evidence is more powerful then how you describe. Without any competing falsifiable theory circumstantial (or non falisifiying) evidence is very powerful. The more facts we find that can explain a larger set of facts the more secure our position is, This is how theories grow and develop. IF THERE WERE NO fused chromosones htis would be a serious blow to evolution - but is wasnt the case so it isnt.
epanek 2 years ago
Is it me or is this guy a complete fucking tool ?
Nah he's a tool
stripymccatpuss 2 years ago
It's not circumstantial evidence. Why would god put telomeres in the middle of a chromosome? That makes no sense. They serve no purpose there. It does make sense if evolution is true.
DejectedPanda 2 years ago
dude, its pretty simple.
At the end of chromosomes are genetic markers called telomeres. They mark the end of a chromosome. Therefore fusing a chromosome would mean that the telomere would be in the middle (or at least not at the end) of the chromosome -- which is exactly what is found in the human chromosome 2.
Why would an intelligent designer do this? It would be inconsistent with the word "intelligent".
So please quit using your stupid analogies and do some studying in biology.
arp76 2 years ago
Your argument doesnt hold water. Heres why
The question: All primates have 48 chro. except Humans. Why?
Answer Because 2 have been fused. The direct evidence. Chro. 2. Which is identical to the ape chro.s. with 1 part Still there but deactivated. Watch Nogin maybe youll learn something.
864208642 2 years ago 15
Chromosome fusion in human embreyos is fatal and causes gross deformity if it occurs after birth. Natural Selection would remove such a creature from the gene pool. Sorry.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
Neph (Free of the fallen ones), Go to wikipedia and type in Chromosone 2. Or better yet go to Google and type in Chromosone 2 and click on the first link. then read and BELIEVE.
Question: What rotated when the Earth was formless and void before the sun was created to make the first day? Scientifically speaking of course.
864208642 2 years ago
I've already studied the chromosome 2 thing. Chromosome 2 is not evidence of ancestry. Humans were designed to have 46 chromosomes, apes were designed to have 48. DNA has proven design. This alone puts the chromosome 2 claim in the trash can.
God set it all in motion. That is why uranus rotates on it's side in relation to the sun and it's moons roatate at 90 degrees from it's roational axis - all of which nulifies the evolutionist's Accretion Disk theiory. In astonomy, we see creation.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
DNA has proven design? Implying a designer. Right. And immaterial information, algorithms, and linguistics cannot be produced by nature? You were the one typing when that was written right. Are you implying you are a diety. Because you speak and language cannot be produced in nature. So how many years ago was it when you created the earth?
864208642 2 years ago
Information, algorithms, and linguistics law are things molecules cannot create. They are immaterial. nature cannot be the maker of NDA therefore. Now, if you think you can cite an example whereby molecules can crreate any of these, you go ahead and let us know.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
Neph..... In every cell in your body. Which wasn't "created". you were born. Maybe you can explain why Adam and Eve needed DNA.
864208642 2 years ago
@NephilimFree
Who designed god?
thisisanaccount100 2 years ago
A First Cause can't have a cause. There can't be an infinite number of 1st causes - the present moment in time would be unatainable. Therefore there's a First Cause for all things. Since it chose to create insterad of allowing nothingness to continue, it's a mind. Since the explaination for the origin of something cannot be found within itself, such as the universe, it is oputside of time space and matter, and that means SUPERnatural.
God is the supernatural First Cause.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
@NephilimFree
Any "cause" complex enough to create other things either arose from accreted simplicity or was created. I'll grant you that a god may exist, but if it does, it either arose gradually from simplicity over vast periods of time (like our universe for example), or had a creator of its own that did.
"supernatural" is an oxymoron. A thing beyond existence. If it is outside existence, it can't exist.
Slapping "first" on it dodges the question in pseudo-logic; creates more questions.
thisisanaccount100 2 years ago
No, there cannot be an infinite number of causes. Can you comprehend that?
NephilimFree 2 years ago
@NephilimFree
If something is capable of INTENTIONALLY causing something else, that thing can't have just sprung into existence out of nothingness.
And if things so complex as to be able to intentionally cause other things can just spring into existence, why couldn't the universe?
Why does one require a cause and the other doesn't?
thisisanaccount100 2 years ago
Yeah. I can comprehend that just fine. An infinite number of causes is not a contradiction any more than an infinite number of consequences are.
rkyeun 2 years ago
@NephilimFree
For what it is worth, this notion is consistent with the findings of modern physics in regards to the condition of the universe: specifically, the universe had a beginning.
BrandonSGale 1 year ago
(The answer is Abraham.)
rkyeun 2 years ago
How can a first cause have a cause? How can a being outside of time space and matter depend upon time space and matter?
The fact that God is eternal is difficult for some to grasp because humans cannot truly comprehend eternity. It does not work well in our mortal, limited minds.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
@NephilimFree
"How can a first cause have a cause?"
By the very slow accumulation of complexity over vast lengths of time from simple beginnings.
Anything else is you stretching your mortal, limited mind in ways that make you happy but don't fit the evidence. You're a hypocrite, you claim that our minds can't understand god and eternity, but also that YOU do understand. Or that it's difficult for some (like trained cosmologists and particle physicists) but you get it. You worked it all out.
thisisanaccount100 2 years ago
The concept that energy always has and always will exist is the exact same thing.. except that unlike god, energy is testable, observable and repeatable.
PaleHearse 2 years ago
This is not true. A head-to-head fusion is generally harmless. It even aligns properly with the unfused pair during reproduction.
rkyeun 2 years ago
Chromosome fusion is a terrible genetic disorder that causes gross deformity and death.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
@NephilimFree
You're reaching desperately into areas you clearly know nothing about that wikipedia didn't tell you. How bout just being honest?
Right now you are bordering on being intentionally ignorant. The truth is right there in front of you but like a child you're sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming so you don't have to hear it..
Just be honest.
thisisanaccount100 2 years ago
I guess you're stumped. The insults and complaints often begin when the intellect runs out.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
@NephilimFree
Lol. Stumped by what? You're not actually arguing anything, you're making assertions, unsupported by evidence, that you somehow can understand something that you yourself said can't be understood. You're arguing that genetic fusion is "bad" when it clearly isn't.
You haven't stumped anyone, you're arguing with phantoms using fairy tales.
The insults are because you are thickheaded and dim and its fun to hear the hollow echoes when an idea tries to pierce your head.
thisisanaccount100 2 years ago
@864208642 agreed completely, he said even in this video that the fusion was not predicted. maybe if he had done what you suggest and watched the video. he would have actually seen that it was a prediction that it was fused and thats why they looked for it in the first place
minionofantichrist 1 year ago
DNA is information stored with algorithms which conforms to linguistics law, all of which are immaterial. The
material cannot create that which is immaterial! Information, algorithms, and linguistics cannot be produced
by nature! This is imperical evidence that all life is a product of intelligence. Intelligence is mind. Since nature cannot produce these, they can only be a product of a supernatural mind.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
tl;dr
Raged at 1;19
Learn science pls. okthxbai.
Srfingfreak 2 years ago
Wow. Just when I thought we had reached the bottom of the pit of ignorance when it comes to science and biology, I find some doorknob on youtube that has apparently located a shovel.
Well congrats npage! I recommend you take your astounding achievement and publish your findings. I mean, why relegate this incredible find to just youtube? Perhaps a research paper and a debate with Ken Miller is in order?
Diomedes01 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The HOX genes of humans and apes are in different locations in their chromosomes, and in different chromosomes! By itself, this proves human and ape DNA could not be related.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
I would like more info on this.
Could you perhaps point me to your sources? I've been trying to find this forever now....
npage85 2 years ago
I did record them. Do a search and dig around and find the names and locations of the HOX genes of humans and those of chimps. I did, and I wish I had kept the sources. You can find them though it will take time and work. This information is not made freely available because evolutionists like to keep the best evidence against evolution quiet.
This is true of most families of animals - thier HOX genes are in different place. There's a YT video of Don Patton describing this.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
@npage85 ~~Geez...bet you haven't found it yet, have you? That's because Nephy lied...see Cytochrome C for the answer to your questions....btw, you won't like it....
DClayTorosco 1 year ago
@npage85, be careful, NephilimFree is literally insane. Watch his vids and you will see this.
judoyodan 1 year ago
Um, NO. Read up on 'genetic cross-over' please.
Diomedes01 2 years ago
npage85-----Evolution took a huge chance when it predicted to find a FUSED chromosome. Evolution stated that if they didn't find it, Humans and Modern Ape DIDN'T have a common ancestor. Jeez...you people really try....
evolutionist101 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Chrosmosome fusion is a known genetic disease. In humans, it's fatal when it occurs to embryos. In adults it causes horrible diseases or death. Evolution could not take place by such a thing. Fusions, if it could have occurred, would have eliminated the animal by Natural Selection. The imaginary fusion is therefore impossible to be factual.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
You have no idea what you're talking about.
evolutionist101 2 years ago
"Wolf-Hirschhorn syndrome ... Subsequent cytogenetic studies revealed a chromosomal deletion of the short arm of chromosome 4. Clinical features include mental retardation, seizures, distinct facial appearance, and midline closure defects. The former Pitt-Rogers-Danks syndromes, caused by overlapping 4p deletions, now are considered as a part of Wolf-Hirschhorn syndrome."
w w w . dmoz . o r g / Health / Conditions_and_Diseases / Genetic_Disorders / desc . h t m l
NephilimFree 2 years ago
A deletion is not the same thing as a fusion.
Leehofooks 2 years ago
If fusuion occurred, one of the TATTAs would be removed by recombination. That's deletion. It would renfer 2 genes as one package of information. This is one reason fusion of chromosomes is deadly.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
What is your explanation for the apparent case of fused chromosomes that humans have?
Leehofooks 2 years ago
Thanks for demonstraing once again that you are an ignorant buffoon and one of the leading asshats on YouTube. You know no more of genetics and biology than one of my fatassed cats.
RHYMEMAIDEN1 2 years ago 26
So, I take that as an admission odf your evolutionist syndrome -
"I'm blind and I can't see it either!I don't want to investigate anyhthing you say! My faith in evolution is all that matters!"
Being willingly ignorant is no excuse.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
"Being willingly ignorant is no excuse."
Thank you Nephie, Prince of Irony!
RHYMEMAIDEN1 2 years ago 2
projection projection projection.
Hows that giant mountain of dog fossils in australia? Rich yet?
intelligentfalling 2 years ago
... middle where it doesn't belong. You have made no case for why God would do that. Why would the intelligent designer create unnecessarily complicated and confusing patterns in his world, when a simpler model would work just fine. It's almost as though the designer was trying to trick us into thinking humans and apes shared common ancestry. This is when I tell my client, "No court is going to believe that. They're going to accept the simpler answer - you did it. Time to plea bargain."
Daytimeofnight 2 years ago
I'm an attorney who defends people like your imaginary shooter. I agree that it is critical to find an alternative explanation for the circumstantial evidence consistent with your innocence (with Design). BUT, to get a jury to buy your alternative explanation, it must be logical. What you fail to explain is why an intelligent designer who had a perfectly good 48 chromosome model going with the other apes would chose to make humans with a chromosome with 2 centromeres and a telomere in the ...
Daytimeofnight 2 years ago
Polyploidy is lethal in humans.
Wolf-Hirschhorn syndrome was first documented in 1961: a child with midline fusion defects. Subsequent cytogenetic studies revealed a chromosomal deletion of the short arm of chromosome 4. Clinical features include mental retardation, seizures, distinct facial appearance, and midline closure defects. The former Pitt-Rogers-Danks syndromes, caused by overlapping 4p deletions, now are considered as a part of Wolf-Hirschhorn syndrome.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
Cercomstantional evidence? It that not exactly your case for an invisible god? You have no evidence sir....
jasason10 2 years ago
creationist tears are so tasty yum yum
whamii 2 years ago
Puts some pants on those ape men!
wavepsychic 2 years ago
Evolution has much more evidence. Furthermore Kenneth Miller admited that there could be an intelligent designer. Then he concluded that that intelligent designer must be a designer to fool us. Now can there be a designer with the purpose to fool us? Of course there can. Furthermore Kenneth rejects this for theological reasons rather than scientific ones. He doesn't believe in a designer that is fooling us so he then concludes this is evidence for commom ancestry.
dekippiesip 2 years ago
Let is go, i will not take you apart piece by piece, but really, let it go.
How much evidence do you need?
gabiotta 2 years ago
biggest douche in the universe, shit i know you like god but he made a universe with evolution
VeitSpearhead 2 years ago
ohhh boy
biscoito1r 2 years ago
why does the evolution photo always show the apes evolving directly into a white man (lol) is this so they dont offend black people?
cheeesefunnel 2 years ago
"why does the evolution photo always show the apes evolving directly into a white man (lol) is this so they dont offend black people? "
On the contrary, it implicitly implies a higher degree of evolution of whites (i.e. racism). I watched another evolution video on chromosome 2 that showed 3 great apes and a black woman! I'm not black, but this is offensive. Again, they are using visual imagery for their own purposes. In the latter case to show the SIMILARITY of the 4 species! Sickening.
inuktuk09 2 years ago
So, tell me, who should be in the picture?
gabiotta 2 years ago
what do you mean its not predicted!!! Most primates have 24 pairs of chromosomes we have 23 so if we have a common ancestor of those primates, either all the other primates got an extra pair (less likely) or we somehow lost one (more likely). Now to lose a chromosome it would either have to just get deleted (which would cause that species to die out due to such a massive loss of information) or 2 got fused into one. So we predicted 2 got fused into 1.... AND that's what we found!!!!
NYjon888 2 years ago
Why do people insist in arguing with the most intelligent people in the world when they are no where close to understanding the evidence set before them
Pegases0 2 years ago
what in the world makes you think they are the most intelligent people? if they were so smart wouldn't they had figure out the whole world peace issue and starvation and blah blah blah... NO! they're too busy having their head stuck up their ape rectums or either spaced out somewhere, YOU FOOL... i spit on scientists!
nonameneeded07 2 years ago
yea, it's science's fault that extreme religious people are bombing the shit out of everything (this includes George W. Bush)
side note: they know a fuckton more than you will EVER know
Pegases0 2 years ago
where did the bombs come from??? HAHAHAHA YOU FOOL hahahahaha YOU GAVE ME MY EASIEST DEFEAT YET.. foolish primate
Bush is religious?? fool
you're just proving you're scared of religion you punk
nonameneeded07 2 years ago
since when was bush a nonchrisitan. i smells a trool, a very bad troll, seeing as i has been trolling you. or you're a tard
also Jesus sucks cocks in hell, as he was never actually resurrected. yep, he is still stuck there
Pegases0 2 years ago
Christian George W. Bush is an oxymoron fool, learn what christian is first... even I know that... man how much more stupidity and ignorance are you primates capable of storing in your apelike brains?
nonameneeded07 2 years ago
hahahaha what a fucking stupid troll, go back to 3rd grade and learn something fool
Pegases0 2 years ago
"YOU FOOL... i spit on scientists!"
Wayyyy too bizarre a comment for me. Assuming you are serious... _ENVIOUS_ _much_, are we?
It's really sad when someone is filled with envy from being love-starved, sex-starved, or both.
It's a million times more pathetic when I see someone consumed by hateful envy over people who can reason.
GOOD LUCK with all of that...
-- You'll need it!
ForwardMan3001 2 years ago
it was a joke... now you see how easy it is for an ape to assume something?
nonameneeded07 2 years ago
So in summary, man's language was confused by God, all civilizations arose shortly after the flood, and language itself proves it.
Some day, if your attitude toward God changes, perhaps you will break free of the brainwashing of godless people and become your own man with your own mind capable of both understanding things and seeing truth on your own. The road ahead for you is harsh unless you do.
NephilimFree 2 years ago
that story is no more true and has no more proof than the story of the murdering tyrant you claim to have masterfully enslaved humans for his selfish purpose of entertainment
difference between me and you, I don't care what created me nor do I follow some bloke who claims some invisible being made him a prophet after he raped 10 boys and repented 100 time.
I don't need an after life, If you need one fine but, shut your gob and stop force feeding BS humans are dumb enough..
scorpk8 2 years ago
ok here is how everything came to be. 3000 years ago, the fuffy bunny troop of zector had sex and in doing so created a riff in space and time which caused a thunder bolt to smash into an ester egg, causing this egg to mutate into what is now known as earth. the fluffy bunny troop seen what the had created and said it needs decor so they formed the human shape from lumps of rabbit poo. and the rest is well history....
scorpk8 2 years ago
oh dear... the delusions of the fundies continue.. although thankfully their numbers are slowly declining.
kalsolarUK 2 years ago
over the 1000's of years of religous history
god following numb nuts haven't changed a single bit.
I am a leader I allow no one to control or run my life not even a god. so go ahead continue to be a pet of something that does not exsist. just stupid who cares
scorpk8 2 years ago
Scorp if you and your independent ways can answer this I salute you.....please tell me How Did Life Originate? thank you.
BillyJack7 2 years ago
We don't know how life originated, but we do know how it didn't.
Man was not formed from dirt and woman was not formed from the rib of one of these dirt men.
TheFifthApes 2 years ago
VERY CLEVER using an argument about what constitutes evidence -- I actually admire your mind and educat' -- WHILE AVOIDING REAL ISSUE HERE!
Sorry npage85, but you lose. & so does your fundie religion. The REAL POINT is that chimps have 99%+ genetic material in common with us. AND Neanderthals, perhaps other hominid species have been analyzed. They are even closer to us, but not so close that they could possibly be another division of Homo Sapiens. More evidence2come, meanwhile: CHECKMATE!
ForwardMan3001 2 years ago
Just because you say check mate does not make it check mate. The difference between me and a chimp is actually 95%, I study the genome research very closely. They are working on the chimp DNA and it is 95%. So humans have 3.2 billion base pairs of DNA.....a 5% difference is 160 million...please comment on that fact. Thank you.
BillyJack7 2 years ago
Your comment to me was much more polite than that of SDS4BO. :-)
I'm sorry for not responding earlier. I need some more time to bone up on junk DNA to get to the real point within the point.
(This would be a separate sub-topic, but I would also like to refresh my memory on certain kinds of viruses which make no sense within ID.)
Thank you for your continued patience.
Maybe what the creationist are under is not checkmate, but perpetual check?!
ForwardMan3001 2 years ago
viruses are incredible designs! mr forward....you honestly dont see design in 60 thousand miles of blood vessels?
BillyJack7 2 years ago
A man was exploring in a jungle...he pushed aside a bush and found a piping system with 60 thousand miles of pipes and a pump that could last for 120 years and move 50 million gallons of liquid by pumping 3 ounces at a time. He went back to harvard and siad: "I wonder who made it?" the harvard peeps said "no no no...we must find a natural solution, belief in a designer is religious."
BillyJack7 2 years ago
Billy, when 60 thousand miles of pipes find a way to reproduce and make children, then I'll buy your "analogy". Until THAT happens you can see cdk007's video on the blind watchmaker:
watch?v=mcAq9bmCeR0
ozpowermo 2 years ago
Oz, are the people at Harvard open mined or close minded if they demand I find a natural explanation for the piping system? Please answer the question. Thank you.
BillyJack7 2 years ago
"Oz, are the people at Harvard open mined or close minded if they demand I find a natural explanation for the piping system?"
-- If **ANYBODY** at Harvard demands that you find a natural explanation of 60k miles of pipes and a pump, then they would not be open or close minded: they would be absent minded (just like your analogy)!
And my question to you: Do the pipes reproduce?
ozpowermo 2 years ago
No pipes do not reproduce and neither do blood vessels. When you get married I will explain reproduction to you...just kidding! Come on now...is the human circulator system by design or by chance...it is an easy question!
BillyJack7 2 years ago
"No pipes do not reproduce and neither do blood vessels."
-- Blood vessels are a part of an organism that reproduces, pipes are not...
"Come on now...is the human circulator system by design or by chance...it is an easy question!"
-- If you think that descent with modification and natural selection are based on chance alone, then YES.
ozpowermo 2 years ago
WARNING: May contain logic
Put a random rock in a shot glass. If it doesn't fit perfectly try another rock. Keep doing this until you find one that fits
It would be so unlikely that you would likely conclude "That rock was made to fit in the shot glass" if found.
Now, pour a liquid of your choice into the shot glass. It fits perfectly! Does this mean that the liquid was 'designed' to fit in the shot glass? Or is it simply the properties of the liquid conforming it to its container?
TheFifthApes 2 years ago
It means you put a rock in a shot glass and then a liquid. My question to you, is do you think 60,000 miles of blood vessels is the result of design (plan) or chance (unplanned). Thank you!
BillyJack7 2 years ago
Neither. The process of evolution is not fueled by chance, it is fuled by natural selection. Selection is the exact opposite of chance.
Evolution is the non-random survival of randomly varying multipliers.
TheFifthApes 2 years ago