Legacy 101(Floyd Robinson Manny Duran Ali Marciano) part 1

[Jlk9011]

Please explain how leonard is better than Robinson!?

[joeclemm15]

@Jlk9011

Simply because Leonard would school robinson, an leonard would run thorugh ALL of Robinson's top opponents...I can't say the same for robinson...dont see him beating Duran Benitez Hearns and hagler....hell no

[yankeemafia999]

@joeclemm15 sugar ray robinson would beat duran becoz duran had a similar style to carmen basilio and robinson was way past his prime when he beat carmen basilio and also duran fights on the inside n robinson is good at fighting on the inside but that just my opinion

[brandoncos1011]

i hate to disagree but how do you figure manny would stop duran....im just gonna say this if you wanna bring up no mas which is a great arguement you also gotta bring up the fact that duran outboxed sugar ray in their first fight which is why sugar ran like a bitch and duran said no mas....duran would knock manny out

[joeclemm15]

@brandoncos1011

Well, I think in the first fight between Ray and Duran, the fight could have gone either way. Duran didn't outbox Ray, he forced Ray to fight his kind of fight...in their second fight Ray outboxed him, he didnt run....he avoided fighting duran's fight. And I think Manny would stop Duran at WELTERWEIGHT simply because Duran's defense started falling off once he moved up from lightweight..I think the speed accuracy and power would be too much after awhile

[jesusneverexisted300]

First I think it is stupid to pit two guys together from different eras in some fantasy fight to say who would win like you guys are doing with Manny and Duran. But since you guys are doing it, I am going to chime in and give my opinion because you guys are obviously ignorant or Manny biased. For you who seem to think that Manny would have any remote chance of beating Duran, who is in the top ten all time greats of most people’s list, you guys are totally delusional!

[joeclemm15]

@jesusneverexisted300

It's not stupid to compare fighters from different eras...fantasy fights have happened...George Foreman vs Moore...

[jesusneverexisted300]

@joeclemm15: Not sure I know what you're talking about. Are you speaking about Archie Moore???

[joeclemm15]

@jesusneverexisted300

How do you not know what im talking about any boxing fan knows about michael moore and Foreman

[jesusneverexisted300]

@joeclemm15 Oh you're talking about Michael Moorer. Dawwg that is not a fantasy fight since the fight did take place. A fantasy fight is where a fight can't or doesn't take place between two opponents because the fighters may have existed in two different eras and people just use their opinions about who would win. One famous fantsay match was the Ali/Marciano fantasy fight. They even went so far as invented a computer simulated fight between the two to determine who might win the fight.

[joeclemm15]

@jesusneverexisted300

Foreman is from a completely different era, he just decided to keep fighting...

[jesusneverexisted300]

@joeclemm15: Dawwg let me ask you two questions? How old is Roberto Duran and how old is Manny Pacquiao??

[hawkermustang]

@jesusneverexisted300 Duran can get his 200lbs fat ass in the ring tomorrow and Manny weighing 145 will knock him out. lol

[jesusneverexisted300]

@hawkermustang: Whatever man.

[joeclemm15]

@jesusneverexisted300

Let me ask you a question did Duran and Manny ever fight in the same decade?

[jesusneverexisted300]

@joeclemm15: My point has been made. Thank you very much.

[joeclemm15]

@jesusneverexisted300

How was your point made? Manny and Duran did fight in the 90's and so did Foreman lol ....fighters fight in different eras and it doesn't takje a genius to evaluate how they would perform if they were in their prime

[ginogeno]

@jesusneverexisted300 From the majority of your replies on various videos, your opinion is comparable to the poo poo on the bottom of my shoe. Joe C is as fair as it gets and he is a Floyd fan. and a REAL BOXING fan. No one will listen to your opinion because you are biased, your screen name is bias, and your comments are all anti pacquiao. leave the fair boxing discussion to mature fans who know how to discuss boxing without being super bias.

[jesusneverexisted300]

@ginogeno: I am more than a boxing fan. I am a boxing connoisseur. That means I know what the fuck I'm talking about. I boxed and I have seen the great fights unlike you who is just giving and ignorant opinion. I'm not a fan, I know what the hell I am talking about. Because you like Pacquiao you wanna be blind to the facts. Pacquiao ain't fought nobody! Pacquiao couldn't fuck with Duran, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, Pryor, Whittaker, nor Mayweather. Now get mad at that!

[ginogeno]

@jesusneverexisted300 In your own world, let people judge from your idiotic comments talking shit bout manny. no one cares about guys like you man. stop with your bullshit. if you came with some decent comments and not come off as a idiot hater maybe people would take you serious, and you come off really bitter man.

Who said I like Pacquiao??? I just think its bullshit that you keep hating on him. My favorite fighter is Miguel Cotto and all times was Tommy Hearns.

[jesusneverexisted300]

Manny has absolutely no defense and is too small for the great “hands of stone” Roberto Duran. First of all, Duran would have knocked out both Cotto and Margarito inside of six rounds! Yeah Manny does have the hand speed advantage and can hit hard but what you guys fail to remember is the name of the game is “hit and don’t get hit” and Duran was very, very, very good at that. His defense is remarkable and he could box his ass off!

[jesusneverexisted300]

Manny is a good boxer too, he has good movement but Manny gets hit waaaay too much! Believe me when I say, that you can not get hit by Duran too many times before you go to sleep. Duran was known as the “hands of stone” for a reason. Legend has it that Duran once knocked out a horse with one punch from his bare hands and this is how he got his nickname. Ray Leonard said every punch that Duran hit him with felt like bricks.

[ginogeno]

@jesusneverexisted300 And Jake Lamotta was slow as shit, got hit 10 times more than Manny Pacquiao but was still able to give Sugar Ray Robinson his first loss....Is there any one that Manny can beat of the all time greats? seems your hate is so biased its not even funny.

Gotta love the Manny gets hit too much, no shit this is boxing dude, offensive fighters get hit, he gets hit but he wins all that matters is winning, Armstrong got hit like crazy so by ur logic he should be off the top 10.

[jesusneverexisted300]

@ginogeno:  I guess you told me huhn?

[jesusneverexisted300]

He also said in that first fight, Duran hit him so hard, he pushed all Ray’s front side of his teeth in the back of his mouth! Manny would have most likely met Aaron Pryor because Manny is closer to Pryor’s time than he is to Duran’s. Aaron Pryor would have knocked Manny out early and we would not have even heard of Manny if he fought in Aaron Pryor’s time.

[jesusneverexisted300]

A point should be made about the welterweight division. Sugar Ray Leonard fought in the first "Golden Era" of the welterweight division. I like to refer this era as The Sugar Ray Leonard Era of the welterweight division. Oscar fought in the second "Golden Era" of the welterweight division. I refer to that era as The Oscar De Lahoya era. This era, I am referring to as the Manny Pacquiao era is not golden whatsoever and Manny cherry picked his opponents unlike Oscar and Ray!

[kingjames1101]

ya should of put some music to this vid

[hawkermustang]

Cont, Ali lost to Joe Frazier, I doubt Lewis, or the K.bros would. Forman crushed Frazier. I think Manny would be a good match for Duran, but Floyd does not even belong in the same sentence with Robinson. Floyd would duck him anyway. I think Robinson would fight Manny in a second, but Floyd is ducking him. Manny has clearly accomplished more than Floyd. Also, Robinson would likely fight with more technique in the modern era. Everyone is entitled to their opinion though.

[hawkermustang]

I think your rankings are all screwed up bruh. You give Rocky no respect, yet he went 49 and 0?? Are you high? Rocky was a great boxer at his time! I do not think Rocky could beat Ali, Lewis, or a Kitschko, because those guys were way too big for him. However, I think he would crush Roy Jones. He may go threw hell, but he would crack that chin. You also overrate Ali like many do. He was very good, but watch the Ali vs Doug Jones bout. I think Jones won that fight.

[kingjames1101]

@hawkermustang rocky beat rjj? rocky would have his face literally broken over 12 rounds worse than margo just took off pacquiao

[hawkermustang]

@kingjames1101 Rocky would knock Roy jones's spark out just like Martinez did Williams Rd 2! Granite chin vs Glass chin = Jones get KOed!

[kingjames1101]

@hawkermustang lol rocky wouldnt land a punch on roy jones and dont say well tarver did, that was after roy fucked his body up comin back from heavyweights

[hawkermustang]

@kingjames1101 Tarver and Roy would get Knocked out by Rocky. It would be like taking candy from a baby! lol

[kingjames1101]

@hawkermustang no taking candy from a baby would be rjj's speed peppering rockys face for 12 rounds breaking every known bone in his face

[ichirima]

@hawkermustang how would rocky crush roy jones?! seriously jones would annihalte the bum, look how fast roy was at 200. And he prolly came in to every fight at light heavy weighing 187. And how is ali overrated, well i thought the 21 or 20 year old beat doug and + he lost to frazier after a 3 year layoff +he fought the best HW division ever. Also manny would lose to duran, sorry joeclemm but duran could box very well and i think woulda schooled manny like marquez or hust out fight him.

[ginogeno]

Also guys now are way bigger, remember this, back then fighters weighed in the morning of the fight, so basically you wouldn't see guys coming in 25 pounds overweight the most would be 5 to 10 pounds tops. Ray leonard and Hagler stayed in shape year round and when they stepped in the ring they both weighed in around 160-165 pounds. guys today will put on 15 pounds the next day. We must take this into consideration how would older guys do against guys who would put on so much weight?

[ginogeno]

I also think Sugar Ray robinson wouldn't last very well against the 1970s-1980s welters and middles. Sugar ray was so dominant because he was more athletically gifted and ahead of his time style wise. Also like Manny Pacquiao people complained he was being fed style match ups that favored him, there were some slick and crafty fighters he never fought like charly burley, Robinson fought most slow plodding come forward white guys. He lost to one named Jake Lamotta (some say that fight was fixed)

[ginogeno]

I have to agree ALI is the GOAT because like you said when you compare styles and eras he dominated or at least fought at an era where the heavyweight division was the best and the most competitive. And Ali did this as a Flawed fighter! He is extremely flawed hands low, never threw body punches, only threw jabs and straights, but he got away with it because of his speed , combination counters and foot work. He beat top heavyweights with his limited arsenal. That is impressive.

[ginogeno]

Althought Clottey didnt fight and was to scared to open up he still fought, even though he had nerves and stomach cramps..People forget that Duran mainly fought for checks, we can only give props that he fought the best, but he lost most of his big fights when they matter. If Duran is great becaue he fought anyone than Oscar should be considered greater this guy never ducked anyone fought hopkins, floyd, manny, tito, vargas, pernel, chavez, mosley, even though he lost he still fought the best.

[jesusneverexisted300]

@ginogeno: Yes Oscar legacy is cemented as he too is an all time great in spite of the fact, that he lost to almost all the future hall of famers he faced. he is still an all time great because one he did fight those guys, and two, he was a multi divisional champion and three he ruled the super feather and lightwieght division and was dominant as a welter for a good length of time.

[ginogeno]

Great analysis Joe.

I been watching boxing since I could remember, and I remember watching Duran, Hagler, Leonard, Hearns as a kid, and my dad and uncle never considered Duran great at all when we watched him fight. They said he was just a tough brawler, He was a half ass boxer after his first win over Leonard and no one respected him when he rematched leonard and quit, the way he quit was pathetic too. Josh Clottey took 3 shits before the pacman fight but he still fought and never quit. cont..

[jesusneverexisted300]

@ginogeno: Duran did not quit because he had cramps as that was an excuse for him to get out of the fight. Duran is a great warrior and a stomach cramp would not knock him out of a fight when he had been taking punches from fighters all of his life. Duran quit because he was clearly out boxed by Leonard and he had no chance of winning that fight.

[jesusneverexisted300]

@ginogeno: In that rematch Ray does just what he said he was going to do. He boxed Duran and he embarrassed him. He mocked him with the “bolo” punch and would not engage in a brawl, which was what Duran wanted. Because he was angry that Ray would not engage and because he was behind on the scorecard, Duran quit. .

[jesusneverexisted300]

@ginogeno: Ray kept bragging that he would beat Duran at his own game despite his trainers and handlers objections. Angelo Dundee had begged Ray not to fight Duran’s fight. Ray being stubborn insisted that he could fight the “macho” fight of Duran and that he did not need to box Duran. What a big mistake! Duran dominated Ray in the first fight on way to a unanimous decision. For the rematch, Ray vowed that he was going to fight his fight (box) and embarrass Duran.

[jesusneverexisted300]

@ginogeno: Duran did not quit because he had stomach cramps. That was just a lie he told to get out of the fight. He admitted that he lied years later. The reason why he quit was because he was being out boxed by Leonard and he knew at the point where he quit, he could not beat Leonard on that night. Duran had wanted Ray to engage him like he did the first fight. Ray had made a big mistake the first fight by saying he was going to fight Duran's fight

[StridentNinja]

I don't disagree with the 8 titles potency if you will lol, but one thing I can say about Manny is he has fought in ten weight divisions, yeah sure, but I dont give a fuck if he's the greatest or not, he says himself he's not the best "of all time," he says, he's just an okay fighter in an interview. Be that as it may the Phillipines has a diamond in the very very rough lol, Mayweather is woooo real good, I'd like to see why in the hell Roach wants Manny to cherry pick a fight with him real bad

[miktoh]

Great vid, gd criteria for comparison if u walk down the memory lane of boxing greats. Yes, Memory Lane. For me, I'm not going to any tag on Pac or PBF now until their career is over n the dust has finally settled. We're still reading the chapters of both book n there are pages to turn b4 the final outcome.

[joeclemm15]

@miktoh

very true and very well said

[factsism11]

@joeclemm15 i agree with a lot of things u said except the last thing because roy cleaned out a entire division & never i mean NEVER took punishment but ppl that hated him easiy took his credit away by saying he was only fighting bum & no1 really cared that j toney & bhop wasn't bum fighters because their name wasn't as big as roys so now every thing he accomplished by beating every sinlge belt holdr is all over showed because he beat his opp better than pac,the point is ppl hate perfect...

[factsism11]

@joeclemm15 fighters now days ppl want 2 see u get fuced up half ya career or a round & than come back but history show when a fighter is 2perfect at what they do ppl grow bored & only wanna see them lose like the klitcshko brothers or the lakers,lol,this is the era 4hate.

[StridentNinja]

Amen to the video, I'm not paying attention to the arguments in the comment section.

[joeclemm15]

@StridentNinja

thanks bruh

[StridentNinja]

Aaaaamen!!!

[CouldBawake]

there was that "no mas" moment but he beat leonard in the first fight then ate his way up to like 180 i heard so Leonard rushed for a rematch....But he did quit...good video thumbs up..

[jovoy123]

8 titles in 8 different weight class.isn't that enough to call manny the greatest?now,who can you compare with that?your comparison doesn't make any sense

[joeclemm15]

@jovoy123

what u need to take into account is that Manny's last two weight division titles came at catchweights...So i discredit the accomplishment of winning the welterweight and super weltweight title....not to mention hes only fought ONE linear champ out of all his weight classes...unfortunately today we have so many belts u dont have to fightthe best to be called champion. hatton is the only numero uno he faced..and since i like him ill count 'The Ring" title as a championship(barrera)

[BloodBoxingReturnz]

nice.............this is a really good vid...im gonna do a vid response...

[joeclemm15]

@BloodBoxingReturnz

thanks let me know when you do it cuz youtube is hiding your vids...I thought u were just makin it up, then when I went to your channel there were vids i hadnt seen.

[BloodBoxingReturnz]

@joeclemm15 yeah its true...i put bloodboxing on all my tags but my new vids dont come up...i been blacked out but people are finding me everyday now

[joeclemm15]

@BloodBoxingReturnz

yeah cuz I went to your page to show my boy your vids and i saw the lebron vid and I was like wtf when did u make this...we was rollin when u was like "what should I do?" YOu can shut the fuck up that the first thing you can do....Thats gonna be my new line now...cant wait till some1 quotes that stupid commercial so i can interject. Lmao

[joeclemm15]

@DrNoBias

lmao @"give my girl's ovaries" I would like to see that too, but it may be awkward cuz there is a big weight difference...Floyd fought DLH as a welter when he was fighting for 154...and we all know DLH was 167 or 166 if he fought Ward at 160, Floyd wouldnt come in at 160..and Ward wouldnt enter the ring at 160..we could be talkin about a 25lbs difference. But it would still be fun to see lol and yeah salvarex has a lot to prove im just anticipating that he'll be great

[joeclemm15]

@DrNoBias

Well let me just say good call on Andre Ward. I know you're intelligent because people don't realize that Ward is #2 or 3 on the P4P list and will be a the next P4P king in the future..along with Canelo Salvarez . It's funny how high expectations are for someone when your great..you want Floyd to fight ward? Damn dog that like 7 weight classes. leonard did 5(last at a catchweight) and Robinson did like 3..I wanna see Floyd and manny, Sergio, whomever takes 140 and moves up & Canelo

[joeclemm15]

@DrNoBias

Oh believe me I do have a floyd bias. I'll be the first to admitt, but I know when i see something special. To me floyd's resume is very underrated. I don't think anyone in history can move up 5 weight clasees and remain undefeated and have only one close match. Right now my opinions are out there compared to the norm and unfortunately Floyd is not revealing how great he is. But I have a hunch that everything happens for a reason...and the truth will reveal it'self in the near future

[pwa30]

I think Floyd and Manny should both have 3 checks in the His time best category until they fight each other and the winner of the fight gets an extra check. Wow, this video really has my thinking now.

[joeclemm15]

@pwa30

Actually I originally had Manny and floyd each with 3 checks then when I thought to myself what I personally felt aboutthe Floyd and Manny matchup....and I think Floyd will win one-sidedly, but since that hasn't happened yet, technically they should both have 3 checks, you're right. ..Glad this vid has you thinking, because theres other variables to be considered I just used a few and graded..which basically means that these report cards aren't accurate and dont mean anything

[pwa30]

Nice video and I like how you described in detail about how you ranked the fighters. I agree with your comments about Marciano, Pacquiao, and Duran. I disagree a little bit about Mayweather. I think in the All time great category, he should have 2 checks instead of 4. He has not fought enough tough opponents to be ranked in the same league as Sugar Ray Robinson.

[joeclemm15]

@pwa30

Thanks browell understood, but Floyd has fought tough opponents he just wins easily when people think he may have a hard time. I think the reason ali gets so much love is because he was an underdog evertime he won the championship....if he had blown Frazier Norton and Spinks away I dont think his his greatest fights would be as dramatic and spectacular..Robinson's opponents were tough for him, but I dont see them giving floyd problems...at all. that's just my opinion though

[ichirima]

@pwa30

Ali fought the best heavyweight division ever, robinson hasnt, think the best middle weight division was with Marvin Hagler