I would like to see horses put people in a rollkur position. Yes, the horse's eye looks worried....anything for good scores and the horse suffers more at the hands of humans. I would NOT have blcoked those riders faces. If they have the balls to put their horses in such extreme hyperflexion...they should have their faces showing their cruelty. Hyperflexion..what an understatement!!!!
USDF recognized the problems, and re-named it, giving the riders who perform this a way to simply tweak the method. Now it's "as long as there is no obvious hand force". Classical Dressage is lost in the show world. The riders don't want to take the time and the judges aren't looking hard enough. Those that do aren't judging very often due to their consistent "bad score giving". Now days, Classical Dressage doesn't win ribbons, sadly enough.
thankfuly the USDF has recognised the problems that rollcore (hyperflexation) acuses and are making riders down for it and going back to the softer more truely classical dressage.
This is a great video it shows how much pain and suffering a horse goes through... i dont know how people can look at a horses in this pain and sayits beautiful how much mettel do you need in a horses mouth!! if this dosent make people aware then type in horse revolution bit
was seid ihr nur für Menschen das ihr ohne Scham so was mit einem Lebewesen machen könnt und dann noch auf eure Erfoge stolz seid. wisst ihr denn nicht das ihr für das alles noch bezahlen werdet. ich glaube an wiedergeburt und ihr sollt als Sportpferd von einen ganz großen wieder geboren werden und das alles erlebn was ihr euren Tieren antut
I will tell you the sercet of Rollkur, trainers use this to restrict oxygen to the brain of the horse the horses throax closes up. With less oxygen to the brain the horse then becomes calm and lightheaded and slows down because of to much carbon monoxide in the blood then the horse learns to be submissive to the rider's every comand because of fear of suffcation. Just like when a lion attacks a zebra it will go for the throax and then the drop down so liken these people to beasts of the feld.
This is not rollkür! There is a difference betwee rollkür and a way of training. This video sucks. Look at the video of the clinic of Anky Van Grunsven where she explains everything abut low-deep and round. And talk again then!
People need to stop this. There is a right way and a wrong way to use a bit. These people are not doing it right. Well, they are getting their horses to do what they want them to do, at the expense of the horse, which is not right. Just because one video shows pain caused by the bit doesn't make all of the bits in the whole world bad.
I'm simply standing in a neutral zone and supplying a video of a dressage competition for anyone curious enough to see. If you know anything about a horse's body language, you'll understand how dressage can be a great sport when the rider knows what they are doing and the horse enjoys what they are doing. youtube.com/watch?v=zKQgTiqhPbw
Я бы им устроил фальшсбор с паяльником в заднице. И по 25 хлыстов каждому наблюдателю за соучастие в преступлении. Надо ужесточать законодательство.
Искоренить эту заразу трудно, но наказывать этих уродов можно и нужно. Начиная от применения высочайших штрафом с каждого спортсмена до 10 лет каторжных работ. И пожелание чтобы каждый из них как можно быстрее покалечился. На это смотреть будет приятнее.
i cant believe that people do that... animales are the greatest thing in worlds , and people is right wen they say "no we re not animals, we re humans" they re right!! because humans can be monsteers and animal are the thing most pure and sweet and lovely in the world, u can see that if u just look in their eyes they will always say u the truth and i think that the dressage is an art were the horse is trained to do NATURAL movements with armony and elegance
I see pain... I see sadness in this beautiful eyes... I'm sorry that I saw this... I feel sorry with this proud, beautiful animals with huge, loving hearts... I don't understand why we, people, enjoy of watch the championships but we can not enjoy of watching this wonderful animals in theirs nature....
This video is so dumb, alot of these pics are just at the wrong time. In dressage u get knocked down for having the horse "behind the verticle" or his had tucked way in for those who dont no. So it's not what it seems, no one would train there horse for dressage to keep there heads way down there! People need to look at the bigger picture instead of just a little clip.
@Seahorse818 you shouldn't comment unless you've done your research. Rolkur is a training method, used to "encourage" the horse to have deep movement and to easily go into the "vertical" during dressage tests. THEY ARE NOT RIDDEN LIKE THIS IN THE RING!! and this is the bigger picture. horses will be ridden with their heads like that for minutes, sometimes even hours. Look it up.... there are plenty of videos on youtube. It's a harsh, cruel training method. it's shocking.
@gabbybella123 I know what Rolkur is and I know that this technique is bad, but if YOU were to do ur research then you would know that most if any of these pics are the method. Also Rolkur is typically not a training method used in dressage, because it is very cruel, forceful, and wrong. Exactly what dressage is not.! And these videos all target dressage and thats what makes me mad, because then people assume all dressage is bad and this method is rarley EVER used.
@Seahorse818 lol thats pretty much what i said to you :p i completely agree with what you just said....i was trying to tell you that. Your last comment made it look like you beleived these were just "pictures taken at the wrong time" and that "no one does this" :p
This isn't 'worried eyes'. When a horse is using himself and going in an outline (his head vertical) His vision is slightly cut obviously, as the head is lower. The horses are simply looking up.
The judges have a lot to do with it too..even in small or schooling shows. They seem to prefer seeing the horses "low deep and round" over slightly in front of the vertical. All of the (old) classical riding books I have read say its better to be slightly in front than behind...yet at the Dressage shows the judges call this "Above the bit, resisting the hand..etc"
Rollkur looks like a frozen spasm of pain. Every muscle on that poor bay seems to be cramping and hurting, not just his neck, jaw and poll. I don't know how someone who spends a lifetime training for world-level competition could do this to her partner. And for what? Why?
@lauz4animals not if its done right. The higher, 'better' riders tend to do more to the extreme than a low leveled rider and horse wanting to have a bit of fun.
u people need to understand that when a horse is collected an moving forward ..the horse will naturaly go on the bit but yes the riders hands help but the horse does most of it..u can not stop the horse from going on the bit if he is collected an working well ..ITS THE HORSES WAY OF MOVING!
@ACSshowjumping1 YES! I totally agree with you. When a rider is able to send their horse forward the horse will naturally lower their head in a nice frame and be on the bit. It annoys me so much to see riders do short cuts and using ropes to get a "pretty frame" and I esp. hate it when riders have their horse on the laziest trot and "sawing' their head down, that isn't forward nor natural at all.
@jumper649 yea! haha at least someone gets it! :) my horse naturally lowers his head..an i dont have heavy hands or i dont pull an i dont "twinkle the reins" to get my horse in a on the bit positon..but thx for backing me up and helping me get my point out there :) ppl hate dressge bc of it but its not that the dressage riders pull an hold the head in position..its the horse! lol :) thx
I think this is completely wrong you can see in the horses eyes how much i does not want to do it. It is in mosthorses nature to do anything that is asked for them that is why they struggle through it.I no some people do it by accident and as long as they realise they are doing and stop then it is okay. My ridng instructorwhom i have to have lessons with has been trying to make me do it for mobths and just simply ignore her as i think it is completely digusting!
they dont have worried eyes. they have eyes of a soft gentle eyes. if you want to see worried eyes. my new pony sometimes has worried eyes cos she was beeten when she was young.
Yeah, some people are horrible on their horses mouths, but I reassure you like most of the comments below stated, if a horse is in pain, and you're on his back, you'll be off REAAAAAL soon.
You would be able to tell if something was irritating it... Believe me.
@Sky212 Im sorry but this is really stupid. There heads are only like that for a while not forever k?? And do you even know anything about horses? except from the stuff you got off the internet and from watching the saddle club....It is suppose to look like that. Dressage is all about style and the horse is like a 1,00 pound animal or more and i think it can take a hour or two with his head curved. So its like you saying a horse thats really sweating is in pain and that people are mean andstupid
Those researchers are right some of those head sets are way too much especially with the horses who have the shorter necks, they are not made for a deep head set... but there are standards for breed acceptions like morgans should have a head set. going back to head sets should not be behind the vertical or almost touching the chest, altough it looks pretty on some horses and horses can seem like they can take pain, if a horse damages his neck/back he useless for riding until it's treated.if able
WOWOWOWOWOOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOOWOWOOWOW worried eyes???HAHAHHAokay.yeah that is NOT where the horses are supposed to have their heads placed ive competed dressage for my whole life and got national champion in ESDF 3 years in a row you WANT and NEED the horses to have their neck verticle like at 3:13 its okay...could be up further but okay..and the bits are harsh very harsh. but thank you for putting this video up other wise.
There is a bunch of pro riders who do this, and the younger teens see them doing it, and think that's what you're supposed to do. It's a horrible and sick practice. Not only is their heads touching their chests, but their mouths are hung open, which is never a good thing. It is just amazing that the professional riders do this; they're supposed to be role models for the younger riders, and they do this. It's just sick.
i hate seeing horses with their necks bent like this. it is unnatural and the horses throats are twisted in such a way that it is difficult to breathe. it is cruel and horrible.
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These horses are NOT in pain. I can assure anyone that if a big warm blood feels pain, no matter how strong the bit is, they will pitch you off. Period. in pain. If you look at the "cycle" carefully, you will see a bending/loosening of the jaw, when the hyper-flexion takes pace, follow by Anky releasing the rein, and the horse either stretch down, or remaining in self carriage. If in pain, you would see pinned ears, bucking, serious tail clamping, and eventual lameness. Period.
@Walnut28Comms just take a look at this link h t t p : / / w w w . h o r s e t a l k . c o . n z / n e w s / 2 0 1 0 / 0 4 / 0 4 6 . s h t m l then you will see how much pain horses can accept and go through.
@Sky212 I owned and competed on a big warmblood. you can see us if you search by "bareback dressage." He was very lazy w/ attitude at first. It took MUCH stronger aids to get him going than my TB or NSH. And if he got pissed, he could toss me, and I don't come off easy. Eventually, he became very obedient and pleasant to ride, but needed a rider like Anky to make him realize his potential. My little NSH mare has to be warmed up very low, round and deep or her back gets sore.
@sillyfilly555 It isn't right at all, but some people won't believe that a horse won't accept any pain. Some horses don't, alot of horses do... unfortunately.
@Walnut28Comms Very untrue. I'm sure the horses are afraid. And yes, rollkur messes up the horses mechanically. Horses naturally move evenly in their legs, but in rollkur their hind legs seriously lag behind their front legs. The point of dressage is to achieve even, harmonious beauty, NOT to cheat to make it to the top by speeding up the process by making the horse uncomfortable and unnatural.
@Walnut28Comms not all horses will respond violently to pain every time. There are different levels of pain, and a horse will take a LOT before it reacts with bucking. If your horse is bucking then you crossed the line a LONG time ago.
@najiwench hmmm...I wonder if ever horse who bucks while playing in the pasture is in pain. I have ridden, backed and trained hundreds of horses. I have trained a few to FEI. In this case, both the horse and I had leg injuries we were recovering from. I probably pushed him a bit too hard, and he let me know. My point was not that he wasn't in pain or feeling over-exerted, but that he was capable of unloading me -- quite firmly, ignoring all the preventative stuff.
@Walnut28Comms Oh good lord...please point out where I said the ONLY time a horse bucks is when it's in pain. Of course that's not the ONLY time a horse bucks. But, in the same vein, bucking isn't the ONLY thing a horse does when it is in pain. There is proof that cranking a horse's head down like that is not conducive to healthy respiration, especially while doing the activities required for upper level dressage. Add that it's not necessary and all you have is cruelty.
@Walnut28Comms That is not true. Horses are by nature very willing to submiss and learn, so they want to listen to their rider. They can also handle A LOT before they give signs of pain.
@Walnut28Comms I think that is just with NEW pain. These animals are tortured daily. They are forced into submission and think suffering is normal. Try and do something like that to my horse. He's is not used to a bit in is mouth and other means of torture and will respond like u described! He would kick my ass if i'd try to hurt him like that! And he is a very kind horse.
@Walnut28Comms I have to disagree with you. In the rollkur frame, it's not the horse's natural posture. And when I've seen rollkur being used, once the horse is allowed freedom of their head, the horses always raise their heads the opposite way to help their muscles. So you're human, and when you walk your head is most likely carried naturally and up right. How would you feel if someone made you walk with your chin to your chest? Of course the riders are good & horses obey, but is it right?
@Walnut28Comms First of all, horses are naturally submissive animals. They usually look to their riders as leaders, so even when the rider is doing something abusive on their backs they will allow it just simply because they are be obediant. Second of all not all riders use the method "correctly" (if there IS even a correct way) you see a lot of amature riders holding their horses in a very tight rein in the deep and round position for lenghty time periods.
this made me shiver! how could they!? HOW ABOUT I PUT A MOFO BIT IN THEIR MOUTH< AND HOLD BACK ON THE REINS AND MAKE THEM DO THE SAME AS THEY MAKE THE HORSE DO? how dare they hurt a horse like that? the horse never did anything to them... -runs away bawling- i would NEVER do that to my horse
I agree with collection, and my horses will collect by themselves in the pasture sometimes, but there is a line. And OMG!!!! I don't think they need to use those outrageously harsh bits in dressage!!!, my horse is collected in a light snaffle.
lets face it ....... its not natural , when was the last time u saw a happy horse cantering round the field with its head STUCK to its chest ?! you dont do you ?
I agree some flexion and roundness does improve the balance and athletisism but this is just plain cruel! they need to work through their backs not just over bend so they can barely breathe!
what? you don't think it's attractive to restrict the movement in their throat so much that they can't swallow and are forced to slober all over themselves (chest and legs). i really don't understand this style of riding. my husband shows dressage, has for some time, and i just can't imagine him doing this to any of his horses.
we have the same argument in the western world about the peanut-rollers. what's the point? does it benefit the horse and ease of it's movement? no. then it shouldn't be done and it shouldn't be rewarded in the show ring!
These riders are evil and egotistical, micro managers.
These horses are prisoners, they cannot break free, if they do object, or give feed back at any time about how they feel, in their sad, abused little lives they are often dealt with in ways that are not on display to the public, or sold on, or disposed of in some way.
Who's the ejiit?!!!! this one is a no brainer dude, I mean having to have impulsion and perform gymnastics when all you can see is your hooves??!!!!!!
I agree but unfortunately they are muscled in all the wrong areas due to the forced positions (which makes them prisoners) they have to maintain repeatedly. Show jumping is often the opposite they run scared, head high, eyes rolling, (prey animal behaviour)controlled by short contact and martingales. I ride my horse naturally and with light contact, he is happy, athletic and well muscled, without mechanics or force or pain!Putting the relationship first & the dignity of the horse not my goals!
These people chould not have been made anonymous - their faces and names should be posted high and wide for everyone to see what kind of people they are and how exactly they achieve their results - no matter how many prices and championships they may win, it will never have any real value, because it is achieved through force, and intimidation.
Riding is supposed to be the rider achieving harmony with the horse through respectful communication.
I never see my horse playing at liberty this way, so if they don't do it on their own when feeling good, then it doesen't feel good - especially for the lengths of time people are asking them to do this. My horse will passage, piaffe, etc. at liberty, but not overflexed in this grotesque way. Looks like competitive dressage is almost going the way of saddleseat - sad.
It is not about winning. It is about doing what is correct for the horse, first, always, first. The horse is first before man's desire to be first. Be compassionate and as Ray Hunt said THINK.
just because a horse is kind enough and willing enough to put there heads in that position. doesn't mean it is right. i'm sorry a horse is a very generous animal just because a horse doesn't resist , doesn't mean it doesn't cause damage.
people who rollkur are just too lazy to train the correct way, it takes longer but the results are far more appealing ot the eye. just watch reiner klimke and alcherich. dressage at its best.
@dressagelover234: You do relize that rollkur is very hard on your horse and you should be ashamed for using the method. If you put so much effort into choking your horse to death then you shouldnt be allowed to ride. And yes I do ride dressage so I know what I'm talking about. I have someone watch me when I teach a horse to collect to they can tell me if my horse is overbent! I would never purposly use this method....never, never, never!!
Rollkur CANNOT be done correctly at all, you choke/blind the horse into submission...actually they are hardly blinded into submission a horse has about 30 times more strength than us simple maths says you want to fight a horse your going to end up in a heap dead even the most placid horse can say no! Lets be real here these horses are obviously willing enough to let there head come to this position so please less of the whole people are forcing this and congrats katers93 u stood up for Anky
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rolkur gets 92 percent scores. classical dressage does not. no matter how "cruel and inhumane" it is claimed to be, it's what wins, so stop bitching and deal with it.
these people can't get good marks on their dressage tests though can they? I can't imagine the judges would give them good marks for this, you can hardly say they are on the bit..
They don't ride like this in a test...I think the idea is the horse becomes used to being ridden in hyperflexion and when they ride a test the horse will easily stay correctly on the vertical because its so much easier than the hyperflexion.
one of the big points of dressage is so that the horse is flexible and responsive, but at the same time, relaxed and not overly aggitated.
i understand how it's not normal for a horse to have it's neck flexed to that extreme, and that because they have it in that position, their sight is limited, so that's why they will spook easier.
but in a sport where the horse needs to be calm and suple, i doubt that the "Rollkur" technique really does that much damage at all.
How do you doubt that Rollkur does no damage or at least not much? Because these riders are more than overdoing it and making them "supple"? There is no justification for this kind of riding and frankly what you said doesn't make much sense. This is NOT Dressage, to say the least. It is subordination at it's finest - sickening to say.
i'm confused i understand the severity of the flexion and the harm it can cause the horse. is this a method that's practised prior to entering the dressage arena? i don't see this extreme in most of the vids of actual tests/.kurs.
and how can it have become so accepted? i was always taught that the horses' nose should never come behind the vertical line, so who changed the rules????? who are the first judges who started scoring high marks for this circus horse presentation?
It;s not done in the test, Rollkur is a trainingmethod to flex the horses neck and body. But for the rest I don't understand the real use behind it at all. The horses just walk 'spectacular', but in an incorrect and destructible way.
yes, its used in the warm-up ring to 'loosen and supple' the horses. the theory behind it is that if the head is deep enough, the back will automatically lift, creating a rounder topline. but the exact opposite is true- it creates a tense and tight back and places the horse on the forehand. and yes, the nose should never fall behind the vertical, but you see horses bent behind the vertical all the time in competiton. why thats rewarded, idk
Horses in such false collection (made by the force of bits and reins) suffer all the time from breathing problems. Their nostrils extend in desparate desire to grasp more air that they need. But the forced vertical flexion of the neck and 1st and 2nd neck vertebrae constrains windpipe, trachea+ all the consequences....
Foaming mouth ->highly active digestion processes that are turned on by the bit in the mouth....To explain the results of this is needed?....Easy to continue, if yes.....
Other than the worried eyes, it's the severe amount of saliva/foam as well as a terribly tight flash noseband. It's so tight it's dragging down the standard noseband. This much saliva/foam shows tension and normally is a sign that the tongue is trying to avoid the bit at all costs. Since there is a gap in the lips, it's probably trying to open it's mouth to further avoid the possibly painful connection. The extremely flared nostrils also add to the distress notion.
Rollkur is cruel and horrible. But, haven't you guys ever noticed some horses just drop their head that low? Or I have a couple pictures of a dutch warmblood I ride that his eyes always look worried. It's not like he's doing it out of pain, it's just the way his eyes are.
what about western raining? the horses heads are down so low it's not natural for horses to hold there head like that. naturallyhorses hold head up like in dressage. I have a pony that doss it on his onw I do not make him do this he doss it naturally.......
do any of these people actually no anything about horses??? no so shut up and comment on vids of which u no something about....horses dont suffer from dressage unless their rider is usless.=I ..stupid peple who dont no anything about horses)
Ich habe ein fünf jähriges Dressurpferd was erfolgreich ist nicht rollkur geritten wird und regelmäßig auf Koppel darf. Trotzdem hättet ihr manchmsl die chance solche Bilder bei uns zu sehen. Nicht weil sie gewolllt sind sonder machmal (aller zwei Wochen) passieren weil er sensibel ist. Meine Meinung zeigt Videos uns keine Bilder. Das sind Momentaufnahmen. PS: Ich verurteile die Rollkur genau so wie ihr.
FEI BANNED ROLLKUR TODAY! For all dicsciplines but under penalty if performed in public. FINALLY! Now let's fight against the new Show-Dressage. Our fight for fair riding is not over yet. We won't shut up now!
The awful truth is it's not just rolkur, there is so much abuse to these wonderful animals by stupid ignorant people who usually have high opinions of themselves and just don't have a clue what damage they are doing and if they did, probably wouldn't care a fig. It sure isn't art is it.
Another example of taking sports to the extreme at the expense of the athlete. Except horses do not choose to take the discomfort being forced upon them. This is not pretty to watch or a display of premier horsemanship skills... no matter who does it or who wins. You should not see gaping mouths, riders leaning over backwards or horses straining to look up just to see where they are going. This is NOT dressage as it was intended to be; a beautiful, flowing dance between horse and rider!
any person who thinks this training is not a problem is a blubbering idiot! over collection not only looks bad but is TERRIBLE for horses!!! It ruins their muscles and joints and overall just makesd them miserable. can also lead to many other fatal heath problems later in life! a vet should know!
Ok soo if rollkur was soooooo bad why do most of the top dressage riders in the world use it???? and i think that you should have showed horse's that r not ridden in rollkur because some of them look just as misreable.
Let me explain as Ms Grunsven says ... it gets her the few extra points in order to WIN! The judges have got so used to seeing this that it passes their eyes without even registering! However the FEI rules say that the head should ALWAYS be either in front of the vertical or just on the vertical and never behind!
To see a horse looking really happy and NOT trained in Rollkur just look at the website 'Sustainable dressage' or Sylvia Loch's website Classical riding club !! FINE EXAMPLES !!
I no that rollkur is bad but i asked my trainer(who has all of the grand pirx movments) wat r the prolonged effect and she said that unless thee horse is riden in rollkur while still growing or is in rullkur for at least 1.5 hours a day 6 six days a week for years that the effects are revsible and not too bad. no im not saying to use rollkur and i think that it need to stopped but some ppl( not saying that u do) but they over react.
Hello, According to the book and DVD of the vet Gerd Heuschman, the effects of Rollkur are not reversible - anyway why would you want to reverse something that is supposed to be so good?
I can tell that you are a sensible person - to be honest just have a look at the difference of the horses worked in Rollkur and the horses trained classically - you really won't need to ask the opinion of anyone except yourself ...you will conclude the same as all the ppl signing the ipetition
Why don't you see the anatomical preparations and wide researches about rollkur's consequences over the horse instead of asking a person who doesn't even know how much oxygen horse needs to breath normally and how seriously airways and windpipe suffer from their '"beloved" collection????
I'm no fan of rollkur but its ridiculous to say that anky could use inneffective training methods and still achieve such results-In low levels of course it is often the case but you obviously underestimate the knowledge riders and judges at this level posses. I too am a huge Sylvia Loch fan but Ankys achievements are undeniable. As for judges, your assuming that people perform hyperflexion in tests which they do NOT-that assumption shows your lack of knowledge about FEI dressage and Anky herself
Didn't say that RK is not effective - it's effective at putting the horse on the forehand and it's effective at demeaning the horse - have you ever heard of learned helplessness?
We know the riders try not to have their horse behind the vertical during a test, but because most of their training is conducted in RK, the horse is then virtually incapable of bringing it's poll up.
What happened to the Happy Harmonious horse, just compare Anky's horses with Sylvia's - there is a marked difference!
Your missing my point-regardless of what methods Anky uses to train, her horses perform brilliantly. I have heard of learned helplessness and Ankys horses are visibly relaxed, free moving and energetic which contradicts that idea. I never said I thought rollkur was effective, however, the results of rollkur that you talk about are not true. Obviously the horse IS capable of bringing its poll up seeing as Anky's horses always have their heads correctly on the vertical in tests
I neither believe that it is the most effective training method or that it is not a harsher method of training. I thoroughly support classical training but I am simply putting across the point that people are wrong in saying that competitors use this to win. Anky's horses are between the age of 15-18 when they compete at the olympics so she is not by any means taking short cuts.
This is pure absolute abuse of a beautiful animal, the FEI should be held fully accountable for allowing this in ANY sort of arena - dressage or jumping. I hope sponsors pull out of ALL FEI events until they stamp this treatment out for ever. Sponsors are just as accountable for supporting the FEI and maybe we as horse lovers should cease purchasing from sponsors too so that they too will add weight to stop this abuse. Poor, poor horses its just heartbreaking.
put your tongue on your teeth then put a bit on and let someone to pull until your head reach the chest and stay in that for some time and write in here if that makes you happy...horses feel in the same way but they can't scream like pigs they suffer in silence
I would like to see horses put people in a rollkur position. Yes, the horse's eye looks worried....anything for good scores and the horse suffers more at the hands of humans. I would NOT have blcoked those riders faces. If they have the balls to put their horses in such extreme hyperflexion...they should have their faces showing their cruelty. Hyperflexion..what an understatement!!!!
valeriemci1 1 month ago
Good video. Every horse person should see it. Even in 'ordinary' dressage, I have seen horses under great stress, because it is basically unnatural.
Now, people are starting to put heavy horses through it. It's really bad.
bootsandsaddles 4 months ago
I wish that someone would take everyone of these riders and superglue their chin down to their chest and see how they like it.
catoohey 5 months ago in playlist Rollkur 2
USDF recognized the problems, and re-named it, giving the riders who perform this a way to simply tweak the method. Now it's "as long as there is no obvious hand force". Classical Dressage is lost in the show world. The riders don't want to take the time and the judges aren't looking hard enough. Those that do aren't judging very often due to their consistent "bad score giving". Now days, Classical Dressage doesn't win ribbons, sadly enough.
blahmeme 6 months ago
thankfuly the USDF has recognised the problems that rollcore (hyperflexation) acuses and are making riders down for it and going back to the softer more truely classical dressage.
tallia18 6 months ago
This is a great video it shows how much pain and suffering a horse goes through... i dont know how people can look at a horses in this pain and sayits beautiful how much mettel do you need in a horses mouth!! if this dosent make people aware then type in horse revolution bit
horsesmylife98 6 months ago
what a movie..pls watch this in webmovietube
CharlineWeisberg 7 months ago
what a movie..watched 5 times in webmovietube
MarieCaulkins 7 months ago
was seid ihr nur für Menschen das ihr ohne Scham so was mit einem Lebewesen machen könnt und dann noch auf eure Erfoge stolz seid. wisst ihr denn nicht das ihr für das alles noch bezahlen werdet. ich glaube an wiedergeburt und ihr sollt als Sportpferd von einen ganz großen wieder geboren werden und das alles erlebn was ihr euren Tieren antut
MrSkorpion134 7 months ago
horses can take less pain that we do. They are FAR more connected and sensitive
savannahaly 8 months ago
those poor horses :(
equinecrazed101 8 months ago
sorry not the throax correction the trachea (windpipe) of horse so there the word is out Anky.
LORIM8810 9 months ago
I will tell you the sercet of Rollkur, trainers use this to restrict oxygen to the brain of the horse the horses throax closes up. With less oxygen to the brain the horse then becomes calm and lightheaded and slows down because of to much carbon monoxide in the blood then the horse learns to be submissive to the rider's every comand because of fear of suffcation. Just like when a lion attacks a zebra it will go for the throax and then the drop down so liken these people to beasts of the feld.
LORIM8810 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
free..webmovietube is completey free to watch this movie
evelinlusby84 10 months ago
that's so sad :/
those dumb humans -.-
animalrightsfirst 11 months ago
This is not rollkür! There is a difference betwee rollkür and a way of training. This video sucks. Look at the video of the clinic of Anky Van Grunsven where she explains everything abut low-deep and round. And talk again then!
Fieneken1994 11 months ago
People need to stop this. There is a right way and a wrong way to use a bit. These people are not doing it right. Well, they are getting their horses to do what they want them to do, at the expense of the horse, which is not right. Just because one video shows pain caused by the bit doesn't make all of the bits in the whole world bad.
lizardo2013 1 year ago
I'm simply standing in a neutral zone and supplying a video of a dressage competition for anyone curious enough to see. If you know anything about a horse's body language, you'll understand how dressage can be a great sport when the rider knows what they are doing and the horse enjoys what they are doing. youtube.com/watch?v=zKQgTiqhPbw
reptilica 1 year ago
Я бы им устроил фальшсбор с паяльником в заднице. И по 25 хлыстов каждому наблюдателю за соучастие в преступлении. Надо ужесточать законодательство.
Искоренить эту заразу трудно, но наказывать этих уродов можно и нужно. Начиная от применения высочайших штрафом с каждого спортсмена до 10 лет каторжных работ. И пожелание чтобы каждый из них как можно быстрее покалечился. На это смотреть будет приятнее.
PARKER951963 1 year ago
why dont these people realize there is a difference between on the bit and torture?
mychemicalromancesky 1 year ago
@thecrazydolls Im sorry that I havent witnessed this ok!! Its not my fault buh these videos r too far!!!
dis4fergie 1 year ago
i cant believe that people do that... animales are the greatest thing in worlds , and people is right wen they say "no we re not animals, we re humans" they re right!! because humans can be monsteers and animal are the thing most pure and sweet and lovely in the world, u can see that if u just look in their eyes they will always say u the truth and i think that the dressage is an art were the horse is trained to do NATURAL movements with armony and elegance
THDarkReaperAngel 1 year ago
how many bits can you get in the horses mouth seriously how much tack do they need to wear
understood448 1 year ago
1:08 i think its anky van whats-her-bitchy-face
kikiza123 1 year ago
I see pain... I see sadness in this beautiful eyes... I'm sorry that I saw this... I feel sorry with this proud, beautiful animals with huge, loving hearts... I don't understand why we, people, enjoy of watch the championships but we can not enjoy of watching this wonderful animals in theirs nature....
monolc 1 year ago
i ride a pony who frames for you without you asking him to, do you think he would do it if it hurt??
Nature1228 1 year ago
This video is so dumb, alot of these pics are just at the wrong time. In dressage u get knocked down for having the horse "behind the verticle" or his had tucked way in for those who dont no. So it's not what it seems, no one would train there horse for dressage to keep there heads way down there! People need to look at the bigger picture instead of just a little clip.
Seahorse818 1 year ago
@Seahorse818 you shouldn't comment unless you've done your research. Rolkur is a training method, used to "encourage" the horse to have deep movement and to easily go into the "vertical" during dressage tests. THEY ARE NOT RIDDEN LIKE THIS IN THE RING!! and this is the bigger picture. horses will be ridden with their heads like that for minutes, sometimes even hours. Look it up.... there are plenty of videos on youtube. It's a harsh, cruel training method. it's shocking.
gabbybella123 1 year ago
@gabbybella123 I know what Rolkur is and I know that this technique is bad, but if YOU were to do ur research then you would know that most if any of these pics are the method. Also Rolkur is typically not a training method used in dressage, because it is very cruel, forceful, and wrong. Exactly what dressage is not.! And these videos all target dressage and thats what makes me mad, because then people assume all dressage is bad and this method is rarley EVER used.
Seahorse818 1 year ago
@Seahorse818 lol thats pretty much what i said to you :p i completely agree with what you just said....i was trying to tell you that. Your last comment made it look like you beleived these were just "pictures taken at the wrong time" and that "no one does this" :p
gabbybella123 1 year ago
This isn't 'worried eyes'. When a horse is using himself and going in an outline (his head vertical) His vision is slightly cut obviously, as the head is lower. The horses are simply looking up.
LucyAmyBeard 1 year ago 2
@LucyAmyBeard
Yes! Finaly! Someone WITH brains!
XLiseuh 1 year ago
The judges have a lot to do with it too..even in small or schooling shows. They seem to prefer seeing the horses "low deep and round" over slightly in front of the vertical. All of the (old) classical riding books I have read say its better to be slightly in front than behind...yet at the Dressage shows the judges call this "Above the bit, resisting the hand..etc"
lherron05 1 year ago
wat een dom filmpje...
NienSCHaap 1 year ago
my horse is a giant gland when I ride;) i love my horse <33
horse's head should be vertical not folded
kajelin 1 year ago
my horse is a giant gland when I ride;) i love my horse <33
kajelin 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There is no life in the eyes..;(
VinceVonDerHeidkate 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There is no life in the eyes..;(
VinceVonDerHeidkate 1 year ago
fucking animal abuser...
Metallgarurumon 1 year ago
@Metallgarurumon THATS NOT HURTING THEM!!!! It head is just bent! LOL so so so stupid.
thewhatsupchick 1 year ago
@thewhatsupchick And look who's talking...
Everhopinghorses 1 year ago
@Everhopinghorses Ok A.that dosent make sense and B.i guess i got my answer on the retared people on her...thanks for confirming it.
thewhatsupchick 1 year ago
:'(
95Meho 1 year ago
Rollkur looks like a frozen spasm of pain. Every muscle on that poor bay seems to be cramping and hurting, not just his neck, jaw and poll. I don't know how someone who spends a lifetime training for world-level competition could do this to her partner. And for what? Why?
2ndamendmentgirl 1 year ago
what's the point of blacking out the faces of the riders in this video and others like it? we all know who these mother fuckers are.
astoria791 1 year ago
I hate dressage, i think the only thing it proves is cruelty and pain to the horse.
lauz4animals 1 year ago
@lauz4animals not if its done right. The higher, 'better' riders tend to do more to the extreme than a low leveled rider and horse wanting to have a bit of fun.
HazesSquirt 1 year ago
@lauz4animals
Oh please shut up! You guys don't know anything about dressage!
XLiseuh 1 year ago
horror.. :'(
schmusiibubyy 1 year ago
my horse would totally buck my fat butt off if I rode like that!
kristiepuckett 1 year ago
:`(
fantasticNani 1 year ago
u people need to understand that when a horse is collected an moving forward ..the horse will naturaly go on the bit but yes the riders hands help but the horse does most of it..u can not stop the horse from going on the bit if he is collected an working well ..ITS THE HORSES WAY OF MOVING!
ACSshowjumping1 1 year ago
@ACSshowjumping1 YES! I totally agree with you. When a rider is able to send their horse forward the horse will naturally lower their head in a nice frame and be on the bit. It annoys me so much to see riders do short cuts and using ropes to get a "pretty frame" and I esp. hate it when riders have their horse on the laziest trot and "sawing' their head down, that isn't forward nor natural at all.
jumper649 1 year ago 2
@jumper649 yea! haha at least someone gets it! :) my horse naturally lowers his head..an i dont have heavy hands or i dont pull an i dont "twinkle the reins" to get my horse in a on the bit positon..but thx for backing me up and helping me get my point out there :) ppl hate dressge bc of it but its not that the dressage riders pull an hold the head in position..its the horse! lol :) thx
ACSshowjumping1 1 year ago
I think this is completely wrong you can see in the horses eyes how much i does not want to do it. It is in mosthorses nature to do anything that is asked for them that is why they struggle through it.I no some people do it by accident and as long as they realise they are doing and stop then it is okay. My ridng instructorwhom i have to have lessons with has been trying to make me do it for mobths and just simply ignore her as i think it is completely digusting!
RoNnOII 1 year ago
they dont have worried eyes. they have eyes of a soft gentle eyes. if you want to see worried eyes. my new pony sometimes has worried eyes cos she was beeten when she was young.
toniczoom22 1 year ago 2
I can't believe people are still ignorant to this.
OBTBKIE 1 year ago
I cant believe how ignorant people still are to this.
Urgh.
OBTBKIE 1 year ago
Anky van grunsven >:( The rollkur queen. I hate her. Its insult to the Netherlands that she that do. >:(
rimeike 1 year ago
Some horses try there hardest to make their rider happy - even if they hurt.
Jacbriding 1 year ago
Ein dämliches Wort macht die Runde und pl¨tzlich werden alle ¨ferde die am Zügel gehen, gequält!
CaptainVandorian 1 year ago
Yeah, some people are horrible on their horses mouths, but I reassure you like most of the comments below stated, if a horse is in pain, and you're on his back, you'll be off REAAAAAL soon.
You would be able to tell if something was irritating it... Believe me.
livelovehorses97 1 year ago
@lettertolavin Ever visited AvG's stables? They do alot more worse then Rollkur only.
Sky212 1 year ago 2
@Sky212 What? Are you kidding me? What else is there that they do?
inwe1205 1 year ago
@Sky212 Im sorry but this is really stupid. There heads are only like that for a while not forever k?? And do you even know anything about horses? except from the stuff you got off the internet and from watching the saddle club....It is suppose to look like that. Dressage is all about style and the horse is like a 1,00 pound animal or more and i think it can take a hour or two with his head curved. So its like you saying a horse thats really sweating is in pain and that people are mean andstupid
thewhatsupchick 1 year ago
Those researchers are right some of those head sets are way too much especially with the horses who have the shorter necks, they are not made for a deep head set... but there are standards for breed acceptions like morgans should have a head set. going back to head sets should not be behind the vertical or almost touching the chest, altough it looks pretty on some horses and horses can seem like they can take pain, if a horse damages his neck/back he useless for riding until it's treated.if able
turtle08s 1 year ago
WOWOWOWOWOOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOOWOWOOWOW worried eyes???HAHAHHAokay.yeah that is NOT where the horses are supposed to have their heads placed ive competed dressage for my whole life and got national champion in ESDF 3 years in a row you WANT and NEED the horses to have their neck verticle like at 3:13 its okay...could be up further but okay..and the bits are harsh very harsh. but thank you for putting this video up other wise.
ArabianHeart1217 1 year ago
who say they can take the pain??just because you don´t hear them screaming??
BeatboxNico 1 year ago
no horse shoul look like that in the eye when working . period end of disscusion.
jonnythunderwalker 1 year ago
Absolutely disgusting. These people give such a bad name to our sport.
kendallar 1 year ago
What ever happened to the days of the horses face forming a line that is at a 90 degree angle to the ground?
emilynellienelson 1 year ago
all of these horses are just dead inside. they have completely given up. most dressage riders are so disgusting. :(
MsDannyBoy07 1 year ago
Put your chin against your chest and then try to do something strenuous. It's hard to breathe isn't it? Why the hell to they do this anyway?
WildwomanCannibal 1 year ago
Whats wrong with :36? This horse is on the bit, mouth salivating, and bulging neck...
Hes in the middle of blinking...hes not woried
JazperIsMyHorse 1 year ago
@JazperIsMyHorse I agree.
Walnut28Comms 1 year ago
There is a bunch of pro riders who do this, and the younger teens see them doing it, and think that's what you're supposed to do. It's a horrible and sick practice. Not only is their heads touching their chests, but their mouths are hung open, which is never a good thing. It is just amazing that the professional riders do this; they're supposed to be role models for the younger riders, and they do this. It's just sick.
misskelseyd 1 year ago
i hate seeing horses with their necks bent like this. it is unnatural and the horses throats are twisted in such a way that it is difficult to breathe. it is cruel and horrible.
amax7895 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
These horses are NOT in pain. I can assure anyone that if a big warm blood feels pain, no matter how strong the bit is, they will pitch you off. Period. in pain. If you look at the "cycle" carefully, you will see a bending/loosening of the jaw, when the hyper-flexion takes pace, follow by Anky releasing the rein, and the horse either stretch down, or remaining in self carriage. If in pain, you would see pinned ears, bucking, serious tail clamping, and eventual lameness. Period.
Walnut28Comms 1 year ago
@Walnut28Comms just take a look at this link h t t p : / / w w w . h o r s e t a l k . c o . n z / n e w s / 2 0 1 0 / 0 4 / 0 4 6 . s h t m l then you will see how much pain horses can accept and go through.
Sky212 1 year ago 4
@Sky212 I owned and competed on a big warmblood. you can see us if you search by "bareback dressage." He was very lazy w/ attitude at first. It took MUCH stronger aids to get him going than my TB or NSH. And if he got pissed, he could toss me, and I don't come off easy. Eventually, he became very obedient and pleasant to ride, but needed a rider like Anky to make him realize his potential. My little NSH mare has to be warmed up very low, round and deep or her back gets sore.
Walnut28Comms 1 year ago
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Walnut28Comms 1 year ago
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Walnut28Comms 1 year ago
@Sky212 just because a horse can take a lot of pain, it doesn't make it right to hurt them
sillyfilly555 1 year ago 18
@sillyfilly555 It isn't right at all, but some people won't believe that a horse won't accept any pain. Some horses don't, alot of horses do... unfortunately.
Sky212 1 year ago 3
@Walnut28Comms Very untrue. I'm sure the horses are afraid. And yes, rollkur messes up the horses mechanically. Horses naturally move evenly in their legs, but in rollkur their hind legs seriously lag behind their front legs. The point of dressage is to achieve even, harmonious beauty, NOT to cheat to make it to the top by speeding up the process by making the horse uncomfortable and unnatural.
kendallar 1 year ago
@Walnut28Comms
horses arent like predators. Not like us!!! Idiot...
Watch: Effects of the bit
Laneismynickname 1 year ago
@Walnut28Comms not all horses will respond violently to pain every time. There are different levels of pain, and a horse will take a LOT before it reacts with bucking. If your horse is bucking then you crossed the line a LONG time ago.
najiwench 1 year ago
@najiwench hmmm...I wonder if ever horse who bucks while playing in the pasture is in pain. I have ridden, backed and trained hundreds of horses. I have trained a few to FEI. In this case, both the horse and I had leg injuries we were recovering from. I probably pushed him a bit too hard, and he let me know. My point was not that he wasn't in pain or feeling over-exerted, but that he was capable of unloading me -- quite firmly, ignoring all the preventative stuff.
Walnut28Comms 1 year ago
@Walnut28Comms Oh good lord...please point out where I said the ONLY time a horse bucks is when it's in pain. Of course that's not the ONLY time a horse bucks. But, in the same vein, bucking isn't the ONLY thing a horse does when it is in pain. There is proof that cranking a horse's head down like that is not conducive to healthy respiration, especially while doing the activities required for upper level dressage. Add that it's not necessary and all you have is cruelty.
najiwench 1 year ago
@Walnut28Comms That is not true. Horses are by nature very willing to submiss and learn, so they want to listen to their rider. They can also handle A LOT before they give signs of pain.
Synna89 1 year ago
@Walnut28Comms I think that is just with NEW pain. These animals are tortured daily. They are forced into submission and think suffering is normal. Try and do something like that to my horse. He's is not used to a bit in is mouth and other means of torture and will respond like u described! He would kick my ass if i'd try to hurt him like that! And he is a very kind horse.
DINAHLUCIA 1 year ago
@Walnut28Comms I have to disagree with you. In the rollkur frame, it's not the horse's natural posture. And when I've seen rollkur being used, once the horse is allowed freedom of their head, the horses always raise their heads the opposite way to help their muscles. So you're human, and when you walk your head is most likely carried naturally and up right. How would you feel if someone made you walk with your chin to your chest? Of course the riders are good & horses obey, but is it right?
jumper649 1 year ago
@Walnut28Comms but it bends the neck and the spine bone dont bend like that...
ilovehorses1313 11 months ago
@Walnut28Comms First of all, horses are naturally submissive animals. They usually look to their riders as leaders, so even when the rider is doing something abusive on their backs they will allow it just simply because they are be obediant. Second of all not all riders use the method "correctly" (if there IS even a correct way) you see a lot of amature riders holding their horses in a very tight rein in the deep and round position for lenghty time periods.
IRide4TheBlue 10 months ago
@Walnut28Comms Your so SUPID!Keep your rude comments to youself and your friend or should i say horse haters PERIOD!
ruffianruleswolfrule 8 months ago
@Walnut28Comms i agree totally
gurlluvshorse123 6 months ago
@Walnut28Comms 2:52 pinned ears.
mychemicalromancesky 6 months ago
Nice video but actually the horse at .31 wasnt hyperflexed. Just FYI
IRide4TheBlue 1 year ago
it seems like some riders do that more than others but these are pretty exagerated pics
WestieAgility 1 year ago
This is not natural.. no wonder they get spooked too they probly can only see the ground..
PrancingHorse822 1 year ago
this made me shiver! how could they!? HOW ABOUT I PUT A MOFO BIT IN THEIR MOUTH< AND HOLD BACK ON THE REINS AND MAKE THEM DO THE SAME AS THEY MAKE THE HORSE DO? how dare they hurt a horse like that? the horse never did anything to them... -runs away bawling- i would NEVER do that to my horse
NoHorseShouldSuffer 1 year ago
This is so obviously cruel. Even a non horse person can see that. Wow, the arrogance of the riders!
nazlily 1 year ago
there is no need to use those types of bits. if they have to then the rider not riding right
HiGhBlUeFlYeR 1 year ago
I agree with collection, and my horses will collect by themselves in the pasture sometimes, but there is a line. And OMG!!!! I don't think they need to use those outrageously harsh bits in dressage!!!, my horse is collected in a light snaffle.
sillyfilly555 1 year ago
exuse me for bad english but Its look like the horse have a pain in their mouths. :*(
Louiseloveriverdance 1 year ago
lets face it ....... its not natural , when was the last time u saw a happy horse cantering round the field with its head STUCK to its chest ?! you dont do you ?
I agree some flexion and roundness does improve the balance and athletisism but this is just plain cruel! they need to work through their backs not just over bend so they can barely breathe!
elinwrj 1 year ago 8
what? you don't think it's attractive to restrict the movement in their throat so much that they can't swallow and are forced to slober all over themselves (chest and legs). i really don't understand this style of riding. my husband shows dressage, has for some time, and i just can't imagine him doing this to any of his horses.
cowgirl23jlm 1 year ago
we have the same argument in the western world about the peanut-rollers. what's the point? does it benefit the horse and ease of it's movement? no. then it shouldn't be done and it shouldn't be rewarded in the show ring!
cowgirl23jlm 1 year ago
@elinwrj yeah, but they arch their necks for sure, it's
a matter of flowing movement through the body; if done
correctly, in Dressage, the rider should just sit there balanced
enough to allow or slightly encourage that movement; of course forcing is
out of the question and doesn't result in the same feeling you get
as compared to a perfectly balanced horse. So, curved neck equals
torture= NOPE!
CaptainVandorian 1 year ago
These riders are evil and egotistical, micro managers.
These horses are prisoners, they cannot break free, if they do object, or give feed back at any time about how they feel, in their sad, abused little lives they are often dealt with in ways that are not on display to the public, or sold on, or disposed of in some way.
Who's the ejiit?!!!! this one is a no brainer dude, I mean having to have impulsion and perform gymnastics when all you can see is your hooves??!!!!!!
TheNemi2001 1 year ago 2
The horses are well trained and have been built up to do this their musles are built for it this is like saying showjumping is cruel
dressagelover234 1 year ago
I agree but unfortunately they are muscled in all the wrong areas due to the forced positions (which makes them prisoners) they have to maintain repeatedly. Show jumping is often the opposite they run scared, head high, eyes rolling, (prey animal behaviour)controlled by short contact and martingales. I ride my horse naturally and with light contact, he is happy, athletic and well muscled, without mechanics or force or pain!Putting the relationship first & the dignity of the horse not my goals!
TheNemi2001 1 year ago
These people chould not have been made anonymous - their faces and names should be posted high and wide for everyone to see what kind of people they are and how exactly they achieve their results - no matter how many prices and championships they may win, it will never have any real value, because it is achieved through force, and intimidation.
Riding is supposed to be the rider achieving harmony with the horse through respectful communication.
This has neither harmony, beauty or respect.
TheAnnestube 1 year ago 20
@TheAnnestube the thing is... they never win!!
RoxieRainsRoobie 1 year ago
I never see my horse playing at liberty this way, so if they don't do it on their own when feeling good, then it doesen't feel good - especially for the lengths of time people are asking them to do this. My horse will passage, piaffe, etc. at liberty, but not overflexed in this grotesque way. Looks like competitive dressage is almost going the way of saddleseat - sad.
bethdhoffman 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If the horse was suffering it would resist you pack of ejiits
dis4fergie 2 years ago
@dis4fergie Oh, but they do. Have you ever had the privilege of watching a horse being hyperflexed?
thecrazydolls 1 year ago
It is not about winning. It is about doing what is correct for the horse, first, always, first. The horse is first before man's desire to be first. Be compassionate and as Ray Hunt said THINK.
DeniseinFlorida 2 years ago 3
just because a horse is kind enough and willing enough to put there heads in that position. doesn't mean it is right. i'm sorry a horse is a very generous animal just because a horse doesn't resist , doesn't mean it doesn't cause damage.
people who rollkur are just too lazy to train the correct way, it takes longer but the results are far more appealing ot the eye. just watch reiner klimke and alcherich. dressage at its best.
EquineJunkie88 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Rolkur is a good thing when used at the right time and we are not to lazy i would like to show you the amount of effort we put into doing it
dressagelover234 1 year ago
@dressagelover234: You do relize that rollkur is very hard on your horse and you should be ashamed for using the method. If you put so much effort into choking your horse to death then you shouldnt be allowed to ride. And yes I do ride dressage so I know what I'm talking about. I have someone watch me when I teach a horse to collect to they can tell me if my horse is overbent! I would never purposly use this method....never, never, never!!
IRide4TheBlue 1 year ago
Rollkur CANNOT be done correctly at all, you choke/blind the horse into submission...actually they are hardly blinded into submission a horse has about 30 times more strength than us simple maths says you want to fight a horse your going to end up in a heap dead even the most placid horse can say no! Lets be real here these horses are obviously willing enough to let there head come to this position so please less of the whole people are forcing this and congrats katers93 u stood up for Anky
dis4fergie 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
rolkur gets 92 percent scores. classical dressage does not. no matter how "cruel and inhumane" it is claimed to be, it's what wins, so stop bitching and deal with it.
hellounicorns 2 years ago
@hellounicorns you ignorant bitch, pretty red rosettes don't matter if the horse is in pain, and if you really knew horses you'd know that!
unicorndream 2 years ago
@hellounicorns What wins is not always right. why would you put your horse through pain just to win? thats soo stupid.
ranix721 1 year ago
these people can't get good marks on their dressage tests though can they? I can't imagine the judges would give them good marks for this, you can hardly say they are on the bit..
2fothamoney 2 years ago
They don't ride like this in a test...I think the idea is the horse becomes used to being ridden in hyperflexion and when they ride a test the horse will easily stay correctly on the vertical because its so much easier than the hyperflexion.
Ferrah182 2 years ago
Honestly I don't think rollkur looks that pretty at all.
amddma123 2 years ago
I agree the horses head looks so much more comfortable flat than flexed like that
abix213 2 years ago
It's not bad. the horse isnt in pain. If it was they wouldnt let the rider do it now would they?
bballg123 2 years ago
whatever happened to the nice comfy dressage vertical my instructor is teaching us??? this is nasty
HarryPotterPONIESluv 2 years ago
wow. At 1:05, all three of the riders are doing it. Gross.
matrixmare 2 years ago
one of the big points of dressage is so that the horse is flexible and responsive, but at the same time, relaxed and not overly aggitated.
i understand how it's not normal for a horse to have it's neck flexed to that extreme, and that because they have it in that position, their sight is limited, so that's why they will spook easier.
but in a sport where the horse needs to be calm and suple, i doubt that the "Rollkur" technique really does that much damage at all.
nlbf04 2 years ago
How do you doubt that Rollkur does no damage or at least not much? Because these riders are more than overdoing it and making them "supple"? There is no justification for this kind of riding and frankly what you said doesn't make much sense. This is NOT Dressage, to say the least. It is subordination at it's finest - sickening to say.
canterpir0uette 2 years ago
Sometimes I thought "Okay, just a bad moment." But than appeared more pictures like that (1:33) ...
It's horrible.
MissRainRider 2 years ago
i'm confused i understand the severity of the flexion and the harm it can cause the horse. is this a method that's practised prior to entering the dressage arena? i don't see this extreme in most of the vids of actual tests/.kurs.
and how can it have become so accepted? i was always taught that the horses' nose should never come behind the vertical line, so who changed the rules????? who are the first judges who started scoring high marks for this circus horse presentation?
hotternfyr 2 years ago
it goes step by step... and during the assesments noone places the horse`s head so deep -.-
ThexMinE 2 years ago
It;s not done in the test, Rollkur is a trainingmethod to flex the horses neck and body. But for the rest I don't understand the real use behind it at all. The horses just walk 'spectacular', but in an incorrect and destructible way.
Sky212 2 years ago
yes, its used in the warm-up ring to 'loosen and supple' the horses. the theory behind it is that if the head is deep enough, the back will automatically lift, creating a rounder topline. but the exact opposite is true- it creates a tense and tight back and places the horse on the forehand. and yes, the nose should never fall behind the vertical, but you see horses bent behind the vertical all the time in competiton. why thats rewarded, idk
chrissyluvhorsey 2 years ago
What's wrong in 0:33?
... apart from worried eyes? :(
yorekpotworek 2 years ago
Look at the foam at it's mouth, and on it's shoulder.
Polkadottedclam 2 years ago
Oh... now i see. I don't understand people who do things like that...
yorekpotworek 2 years ago
Horses in such false collection (made by the force of bits and reins) suffer all the time from breathing problems. Their nostrils extend in desparate desire to grasp more air that they need. But the forced vertical flexion of the neck and 1st and 2nd neck vertebrae constrains windpipe, trachea+ all the consequences....
Foaming mouth ->highly active digestion processes that are turned on by the bit in the mouth....To explain the results of this is needed?....Easy to continue, if yes.....
fleur4198 2 years ago
Other than the worried eyes, it's the severe amount of saliva/foam as well as a terribly tight flash noseband. It's so tight it's dragging down the standard noseband. This much saliva/foam shows tension and normally is a sign that the tongue is trying to avoid the bit at all costs. Since there is a gap in the lips, it's probably trying to open it's mouth to further avoid the possibly painful connection. The extremely flared nostrils also add to the distress notion.
canterpir0uette 2 years ago
that was very interesting! thank you i learned something new
horsebird123 2 years ago
Rollkur is cruel and horrible. But, haven't you guys ever noticed some horses just drop their head that low? Or I have a couple pictures of a dutch warmblood I ride that his eyes always look worried. It's not like he's doing it out of pain, it's just the way his eyes are.
MoonAndBack27 2 years ago
what about western raining? the horses heads are down so low it's not natural for horses to hold there head like that. naturallyhorses hold head up like in dressage. I have a pony that doss it on his onw I do not make him do this he doss it naturally.......
snowhorse100000 2 years ago
My horse gets those!
mybuddybubba101 2 years ago
do any of these people actually no anything about horses??? no so shut up and comment on vids of which u no something about....horses dont suffer from dressage unless their rider is usless.=I ..stupid peple who dont no anything about horses)
ponymad1123 2 years ago
Why can't these riders see the pain in their horses eyes, how stupid and cruel just for sport. Shame on them!!!
LibertyJane51 2 years ago
Ich habe ein fünf jähriges Dressurpferd was erfolgreich ist nicht rollkur geritten wird und regelmäßig auf Koppel darf. Trotzdem hättet ihr manchmsl die chance solche Bilder bei uns zu sehen. Nicht weil sie gewolllt sind sonder machmal (aller zwei Wochen) passieren weil er sensibel ist. Meine Meinung zeigt Videos uns keine Bilder. Das sind Momentaufnahmen. PS: Ich verurteile die Rollkur genau so wie ihr.
Liverty0509 2 years ago
makes me sick
Samars7 2 years ago
FEI BANNED ROLLKUR TODAY! For all dicsciplines but under penalty if performed in public. FINALLY! Now let's fight against the new Show-Dressage. Our fight for fair riding is not over yet. We won't shut up now!
ItsMe490 2 years ago
What makes people think that tourturing their horse is ok
parellijumper99 2 years ago
The awful truth is it's not just rolkur, there is so much abuse to these wonderful animals by stupid ignorant people who usually have high opinions of themselves and just don't have a clue what damage they are doing and if they did, probably wouldn't care a fig. It sure isn't art is it.
keyses 2 years ago
Another example of taking sports to the extreme at the expense of the athlete. Except horses do not choose to take the discomfort being forced upon them. This is not pretty to watch or a display of premier horsemanship skills... no matter who does it or who wins. You should not see gaping mouths, riders leaning over backwards or horses straining to look up just to see where they are going. This is NOT dressage as it was intended to be; a beautiful, flowing dance between horse and rider!
tinydogsrule 2 years ago
any person who thinks this training is not a problem is a blubbering idiot! over collection not only looks bad but is TERRIBLE for horses!!! It ruins their muscles and joints and overall just makesd them miserable. can also lead to many other fatal heath problems later in life! a vet should know!
silverspurs233 2 years ago 2
Ok soo if rollkur was soooooo bad why do most of the top dressage riders in the world use it???? and i think that you should have showed horse's that r not ridden in rollkur because some of them look just as misreable.
richmondkrn 2 years ago 2
Let me explain as Ms Grunsven says ... it gets her the few extra points in order to WIN! The judges have got so used to seeing this that it passes their eyes without even registering! However the FEI rules say that the head should ALWAYS be either in front of the vertical or just on the vertical and never behind!
To see a horse looking really happy and NOT trained in Rollkur just look at the website 'Sustainable dressage' or Sylvia Loch's website Classical riding club !! FINE EXAMPLES !!
BanRollkur 2 years ago
I no that rollkur is bad but i asked my trainer(who has all of the grand pirx movments) wat r the prolonged effect and she said that unless thee horse is riden in rollkur while still growing or is in rullkur for at least 1.5 hours a day 6 six days a week for years that the effects are revsible and not too bad. no im not saying to use rollkur and i think that it need to stopped but some ppl( not saying that u do) but they over react.
richmondkrn 2 years ago
Hello, According to the book and DVD of the vet Gerd Heuschman, the effects of Rollkur are not reversible - anyway why would you want to reverse something that is supposed to be so good?
I can tell that you are a sensible person - to be honest just have a look at the difference of the horses worked in Rollkur and the horses trained classically - you really won't need to ask the opinion of anyone except yourself ...you will conclude the same as all the ppl signing the ipetition
BanRollkur 2 years ago
Why don't you see the anatomical preparations and wide researches about rollkur's consequences over the horse instead of asking a person who doesn't even know how much oxygen horse needs to breath normally and how seriously airways and windpipe suffer from their '"beloved" collection????
fleur4198 2 years ago
I'm no fan of rollkur but its ridiculous to say that anky could use inneffective training methods and still achieve such results-In low levels of course it is often the case but you obviously underestimate the knowledge riders and judges at this level posses. I too am a huge Sylvia Loch fan but Ankys achievements are undeniable. As for judges, your assuming that people perform hyperflexion in tests which they do NOT-that assumption shows your lack of knowledge about FEI dressage and Anky herself
katers93 2 years ago
Didn't say that RK is not effective - it's effective at putting the horse on the forehand and it's effective at demeaning the horse - have you ever heard of learned helplessness?
We know the riders try not to have their horse behind the vertical during a test, but because most of their training is conducted in RK, the horse is then virtually incapable of bringing it's poll up.
What happened to the Happy Harmonious horse, just compare Anky's horses with Sylvia's - there is a marked difference!
BanRollkur 2 years ago
Your missing my point-regardless of what methods Anky uses to train, her horses perform brilliantly. I have heard of learned helplessness and Ankys horses are visibly relaxed, free moving and energetic which contradicts that idea. I never said I thought rollkur was effective, however, the results of rollkur that you talk about are not true. Obviously the horse IS capable of bringing its poll up seeing as Anky's horses always have their heads correctly on the vertical in tests
katers93 2 years ago
It isn't ineffective but it is cruel.
DeathKitty123456 2 years ago
Comment removed
katers93 2 years ago
I neither believe that it is the most effective training method or that it is not a harsher method of training. I thoroughly support classical training but I am simply putting across the point that people are wrong in saying that competitors use this to win. Anky's horses are between the age of 15-18 when they compete at the olympics so she is not by any means taking short cuts.
katers93 2 years ago
This is pure absolute abuse of a beautiful animal, the FEI should be held fully accountable for allowing this in ANY sort of arena - dressage or jumping. I hope sponsors pull out of ALL FEI events until they stamp this treatment out for ever. Sponsors are just as accountable for supporting the FEI and maybe we as horse lovers should cease purchasing from sponsors too so that they too will add weight to stop this abuse. Poor, poor horses its just heartbreaking.
julesntarka 2 years ago 3
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chrissyt0393 2 years ago
OMG!!
look at 0:52
that poor horse. :(
breydonsilver 2 years ago 2
put your tongue on your teeth then put a bit on and let someone to pull until your head reach the chest and stay in that for some time and write in here if that makes you happy...horses feel in the same way but they can't scream like pigs they suffer in silence
bibelbotth 2 years ago 2
it's horrible. i hope these riders know what they are doing wrong???
SnowKitten53 2 years ago 2