The Founding Fathers' Views on Organized Religion

[jaymthegenius]

" I think that abortion doctor got exactly what he deserved." Bin-Laden would have been proud.

[LambLion777]

May 22, 1778 just after Valley Forge, Commander in Chief G. Washington ralleied his troops and gave this speech. "While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens & soldiers we certianly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of a Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian." (George & Henry S. Keatinge) Published 1786

[LambLion777]

@ddean1987 Sins of this Country has made it what it is today. Blind sighted fools, that never take God serious or hold themselves accountable for thier own sins or mistakes are the reason for bad things happening to this Country. Not the religious right.

[rbound827]

Washington's practice of Christianity was limited and superficial, because he was not himself a Christian. In the enlightened tradition of his day, he was a devout Deist—just as many of the clergymen who knew him suspected. Washington often spoke of God and Providence, and there are few reliable source material for quotes by him containing the words Jesus, Christ, or Christianity.

[LambLion777]

Hand written Book of George Washington April 1752:" My iniquities are multiplied and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing and desire to be vile in my own eyes as I have rendered myself vile in Thine. I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior Jesus Christ who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me.”

[rbound827]

@LambLion777 The very best handwriting experts with the FBI have poured over this document and have concluded it to NOT be in the handwriting of GW. A countless number of historians -- dare I say the overwhelming MAJORITY -- not only question but completely doubt the validity of the Washington prayer journal.

[LambLion777]

@rbound827 : That is a straight out lie. I have been to George Washingtons home. Seen his handwriting myself. IThat is and was his own handwriting. You believe in what you want. I know, the truth, and you can't shake it for a minute. You can get an expert to tell an other expert they are wrong. Whoopie doo. People are just people and the disagree all the time. No matter what you may think.

[rbound827]

@LambLion777 Washington did not take Communion. He did not kneel in church. He certainly believed in a Creator-but never mentions Jesus Christ in any of his writings-ever. He refers to Providence in numerous letters, but he used the term in such a way as to indicate that he considered Providence as a synonym for destiny or fate. We can agree that Washington was a great man, but to simply say he was a Christian needs to be debated still

[LambLion777]

@rbound827 Do you know how sacrid taking Communion is? If the President was under duress at that time and felt uneasy about taking Communion, so what. That is between him & God. Who is any of us to say, he should take communion everytime. He probably didn't take it one time or maybe, a few times and someone noticed. Wether of not George Washington kneeled in Church, ever thought about, his legs may have hurt or cramped up? Jesus said, pray in secret. I will not be his judge.

[LambLion777]

Alexander Hamilton:For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [Constitution] a system, which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests.1787 after the [Constitutional Convention] I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man.

[dodgermutt]

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries.

James Madison

[LambLion777]

@dodgermutt And he was talking about how they saw the Catholic Churches Power over England. That is why, only 3 (Catholic) out of 204 (Other Christian denominations) founding fathers were all Christian. This is smut and lies told by public schooling.

[dodgermutt]

@LambLion777 You can only say that if you have not read anything by the founding fathers. Also the catholic church had little power in England after Henry the 8th declared himself pope.You can choose to be ignorant, or you can go back and look at the writings of the founding fathers without trying to support a view point. Madison, who wrote the constitution and bill of rights made it quite clear what his views on separation of church and state were.

[LambLion777]

@dodgermutt What was that> Really? At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;

“For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver,

the LORD is our king;

He will save us.”

[LambLion777]

Let's see what they, really said. Samuel Adams: He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all.Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.American Independence.Aug.1776. Ben Franklin: In the beginning of the contest with Britain,when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection...Our prayers Sir, were heard & they were graciously answered. Do we imagine we no longer need His assistance? Jun. 1787 Constitutional Convention

[dodgermutt]

If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity we shall find few that haven't in their turns been persecutors & complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops but fell into the practice themselves.~B Franklin

[LambLion777]

.... the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered, do we imagine we no longer need His assistance? Cons.Convention 1787

1749 plan of education for all public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach, the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern. Ben Franklin

[dodgermutt]

@LambLion777 It then manufactured the allegories in the book of Genesis into fact, and the allegorical tree of life and the tree of knowledge into real trees, contrary to the belief of the first Christians, and for which there is not the least authority in any of the books of the New Testament; for in none of them is there any mention made of such place as the Garden of Eden, nor of anything that is said to have happened there. ~Thomas Paine

[LambLion777]

Evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labor with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest .1810 : Existence of GOD T. Paine

[dodgermutt]

@LambLion777 It is a doctrine not only dangerous to morals in this world, but to our happiness in the next world, because it holds out such a cheap, easy, and lazy way of getting to heaven, as has a tendency to induce men to hug the delusion of it to their own injury. ~Thomas Paine

[LambLion777]

Thomas Paine:

“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”

[dodgermutt]

@LambLion777 Here it is that the religion of Deism is superior to the Christian Religion. It is free from all those invented and torturing articles that shock our reason or injure our humanity, and with which the Christian religion abounds. Its creed is pure, and sublimely simple. It believes in God, and there it rests. ~Thomas Paine

[dodgermutt]

@LambLion777 "What havoc has been made of books through every century of the Christian era? Where are fifty gospels, condemned as spurious by the bull of Pope Gelasius? Where are the forty wagon-loads of Hebrew manuscripts burned in France, by order of another pope, because suspected of heresy? Remember the 'index expurgatorius', the inquisition, the stake, the axe, the halter and the guillotine." --- John Adams, letter to John Taylor

[dodgermutt]

@LambLion777 "In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose." --- Thomas Jefferson, to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814

[dodgermutt]

@LambLion777 "Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." --- Thomas Jefferson, from "Notes on Virginia"

[LambLion777]

@dodgermutt “God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital)

[dodgermutt]

@LambLion777 "Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." --- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787

[LambLion777]

@dodgermutt Thomas Jefferson:

“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

[rbound827]

@LambLion777 Yes, he did believe that Yeshua was a great moral teacher, but as you know, Jefferson wrote what's known as The Jefferson Bible, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth", which removed any text containing supernatural acts he believed were added by Mark, Luke, Matthew and John.

[dodgermutt]

@LambLion777 The name of Jesus Christ is not mentioned even once in the vast collection of Washington's published letters. He refers to Providence in numerous letters, but he used the term as a synonym for Destiny or Fate. Bishop White, who knew him well for many years, wrote after Washington's death that he had never heard him express an opinion on any religious subject. He added that although Washington was "serious and attentive" in church, he never saw him kneel in prayer.

[LambLion777]

@dodgermutt “What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”

--George Washington in a speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779

[LambLion777]

@dodgermutt "Make me to know what is acceptable in Thy sight, and therein to delight, open the eyes of my understanding, and help me thoroughly to examine myself concerning my knowledge, faith, and repentance, increase my faith, and direct me to the true object, Jesus Christ the Way, the Truth, and the Life, ..."

[from a 24 page authentic handwritten manuscript book dated April 21-23, 1752]

[Grungadin]

"That it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism." Thomas Huxley

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle

Far was we know, you're both wrong, and I just don't have a clue and am willing to admit it.

[MrLukasart]

What happened to the 8 Presidents that came before Washington?

[ddean1987]

the religious right have destroyed this country and they continuously try to promote inequality, specifically targeting gays.

[DougBond]

Do Humans really need someone or something to rule them? 

I might never understand why Humanity can't work together without leadership...

"The longest journey is the one made into one self." - Let it this be the blueprint for whatever.

[maurieer]

Yes, things have changed since the "founding fathers" and the politics of that period.

I agree, they wouldn`t get a foot in the political door today.

5/5

[LoomisLoftis]

Selfmade men are often the type that is suspicious of clergy and tend to attend church irregularly. I think it is because they have a fundamental problem with the "pray to god for deliverance from oppression and/or evil" mentality. The men that make things happen realize that a 100% reliance on clergy would get them nowhere. Where would the 13 original colonies be if george washington relied on his priest to drive off the redcoats? But that does not mean the bible was irrelevant to him.

[CadicusTheDamned]

Oh, I never said that the Founders were atheists, just openly suspicious of organized religion.

Check out the Jefferson Bible sometime. TJ thought the NT should be interpreted only as a work on ethics and excised everything supernatural.

[LoomisLoftis]

From a political perspective, that is the best philosophy. I don't want government trying to interpret anything spiritual or supernatural. Let each individual attempt or not attempt such interpretations in the privacy of his own home.

[CadicusTheDamned]

Well, government is not the place for religion. Only hard core fundamentalists think otherwise.

I don't even really have any objections to fellowships. However, when churches become profitable and highly lucrative (as they currently are), my suspicions become aroused.

[imaginethereisnogod]

Tom Paine, American founding father, influenced Jefferson, Lincoln, Franklin, etc. said:

All institutions of churches, Jewish, Christian, or Turkish [Islam], appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the sun, in which they put a man called Christ in the place of the sun, and pay him the adoration originally payed to the sun.

My own mind is my own church.

[CadicusTheDamned]

Nice quote.

[zbambam5]

Its obvious taking a real look at any of the founding fathers lives, that they were completely against organized religion,especially Christianity. Yet they still persist with the lie that this was founded as a Christian nation.

[CadicusTheDamned]

It's almost like Christians have a blatant disregard for the commandment against bearing false witness. Who would have figured that from the people who brought you Creationism?

[zbambam5]

To be honest I don't think they actually believe the crap they read in the bible. They just keep the lie going out of habit, and they wouldn't know what to do without someone telling them their role in life. Makes me want to cry and rip their head off for being so damn stupid.

[CadicusTheDamned]

I don't think they believe it either. Bring up Luke 14:33 and watch them reinterpret simple fucking English so they can keep their cars, homes, and 401K retirement plans.

[mmartini50]

What's Luke 14:33?  I don't own a Bibbel.

[CadicusTheDamned]

"So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple."

In context, it was given to a crowd of people and not the Apostles. You're supposed to get rid of all your worldly possessions to be a Christian. He says it many other times in similar contexts. Hence, we have the poverty of monks and the Egyptian ascetics.

[mmartini50]

Thanks, no wonder they don't like it, it's rather...selfless.

[CadicusTheDamned]

Jesus was also a pacifist, yet George W. Bush thinks He commanded him to invade Iraq.

Weird, huh? Seems like God supports them in all their endeavors despite Scripture clearly speaking against it.

[professor2442]

Luke 14:33 (New International Version): "In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple."

[SofaKingLoaded]

Great video Cadicus.. these religious Ewetoob dolts that constantly yammer on about this Nation being built on christian principles makes me wanna eat my own fucking face off..

[CadicusTheDamned]

We ought to revoke their tax exempt status for fucking around in politics. Separation of Church and State means SEPARATION. Priests and pastors need to quit telling people how to vote against their intellects and for ridiculous superstition.

[CadicusTheDamned]

Otherwise, it's politics and not religion.

[HitchensFanatic]

Great video!

[CadicusTheDamned]

Thanks!

[premed2]

Johnathan Miller is cool.

[CadicusTheDamned]

Yes. I just watched the entire A Rough History in Disbelief series. Quite enlightening story about the roots of disbelief, although I must admit I didn't believe before I had heard of any of those authors. I'd just already felt the effects of their contributions on society, I guess.

[lothrazar]

the founding fathers are pretty atheistic

[C0ct0pus]

i'd say they were pretty damn smart, and that we should learn from their example...first step, vote obama...

[DblOSmith]

Deistic.  They were deists. Clockmaker god. Create the universe and watch it run as opposed to the "answers prayers, has a plan for you, will intervene in your life if you worship him" type god of theists.

[CadicusTheDamned]

They didn't believe in a personal god, but had no explanation for the universe. Hence, god of the gaps that didn't answer prayers. Closer to atheists than fundamentalists of any stripe. Notice that I never called them atheists. I just pointed out that they had misgivings about organized religion.

[DblOSmith]

A pure "god of the gaps" is deist, IMO, because an atheist means... well, they don't believe in any god. They did believe in a god, just not the personal, answers prayers-intervenes with lives style god.

[CadicusTheDamned]

Oh, I agree that they were Deists. I'm just saying a Deist is a step along the path to from monotheism to atheism as science fills the gaps.

[DblOSmith]

Then we're arguing for nothing. Came we make up now? ;)

[CadicusTheDamned]

I was just clarifying that we agree. No hostility intended.

[DblOSmith]

I know.  I just wanted a reason for us to... you know... "make up". ;)