What is it with Americans??They always seem to get communism and socialism mixed up....plus i heard there media is censored and there brainwashed into thinkin things about socialism...The more i read from them the more it makes me believe its true!!!...My cous is a journalist went to live there for a bit, couldn't believe how much of the media they don't see/taken out whilst most of the world can see it.....Pretty scary stuff!!!!!
Benn would have made the UK very rich if PM. In the 1970s he advocated Land Valuation Taxation with reduced Income Tax. He turned to the left, after being in office in the 196/70s.
He wrote:
"I experienced the power of industrialists and bankers to get their way by use of the crudest form of economic pressure, even blackmail, against a Labour Government. Compared to this, the pressure brought to bear in industrial disputes is minuscule"
Shackelled with debt brought on by huge unsustainable monopolies run by politicians who have no idea about anything other than being professional politicians? Is that what he means? Lets spend everyones money for them. How does a country make money? Doesnt matter! Lets spend spend spend!!!! We know best! We're politicians!!!
I love Tony Benn he is a great man, I have never seen a debate when he has been upstaged as he knows what he is talking about and he believes it. Not a lot of politicians can say that. It will be a sad day when he is no longer in the world.
Benn and Moore in one room. It's like a moron convention. You want to see something that would stop people voting - make every citizen beholden to the state. Socialize all means of production and welfare so that every voter is beholden to the all powerful state. See how many come out to vote against you then. Better still, don't do that and just look at countries that have - not too big on democracy are they?
@revelationmd Well, you're wrong on. Every country is different. Look at Egypt. Who would have predicted that? Look at Syria? Some cultures can get to the end of their tether, whatever the system. Compare that with America with 46 million living in poverty, (US Gov figures this year so it's probably millions more). What do Americans do? Almost nothing. 'Occupy' is a joke and is already failing. It's about the culture of the people, not the system. US people are pussies. Others have balls.
@revelationmd You could also be describing fascist rule. Either too far left or right is bad but far left is Communism and I don't think Tony Benn would describe himself as a communist just someone who wants the balance of power to be shifted slightly so that things are more equal and I don't see how that can be a bad thing?
@OLDINDIANS Obviously you are referencing the Labour party and their friends in the banks that called on Gordon Brown to socialize their debts. Course, Gordon Brown makes a nice side income from giving speaches at bankers dinners these days.
Course croney capitalism is wrong - but you don't even have to corrupt socialism for it to be wrong. It's fundamentally wrong and inevitably leads to dictatorships. Got a corrupt MP in a capitalist society? Vote him out. Won't happen in N Korea.
@blizardp Of the five remaining Communist states in the world, North Korea is one of only two (along with Cuba) with an almost entirely government-planned, state-owned economy. The Central Planning Committee prepares, supervises and implements economic plans, while a General Bureau of Provincial Industry in each region is responsible for the management of local manufacturing facilities, production, resource allocation and sales.
@BasilFawlty4444 AAARRGGHH - confusing socialism with what you wish socialism was! IT IS GETTING REPETITIVE.
Definition of Socialism: Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
Central planning of an economy. Like in North Korea.
@revelationmd The former Clause 4 of the Labour Party (commitment to nationalisation):
"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service."
@BasilFawlty4444 Indeed, what people tend to miss is that this ''equitable'' distribution always has to be overseen by central planners. And as the old saying goes - power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
"Definition of Socialism: Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy"
Do not confuse a Communist dictatorship and democratic Socialism. Democratic Socialism gives the highest quality of life in the world.
@NearAbbeyRoad Do not confuse capitalist countries that are governed by political parties with the word 'socialist' in their name (like those in Scandinavia - or, come to that, the National Socialists of 1930s Germany) for socialist countries.
Socialism - in it's economic sense - is when the government owns ALL means of production. Socialist countries give the lowest quality of life in the world.
"Do not confuse capitalist countries that are governed by political parties with the word 'socialist' in their name (like those in Scandinavia - or, come to that, the National Socialists of 1930s Germany) for socialist countries."
You cannot differentiate between Communist dictatorships and democratic socialists. You must be American.
@revelationmd in fact it's not true. All of the G20 countries exept US are socialist. Socialism can be established in many different ways. Socialist countries, since the XIX century, always had the greatest quality of life, and what is important to know, for the WHOLE society. In US, only people with enough riches ( lot of money ) can have the same services and quality of life than the people in socialist countries. Socialism is not against private companies, but again TRUSTS
@MrJacobpoliquin I'm getting a bit bored of posting this. What you are describing is what you wish Socialism is. Just because a political party has ''socialism'' in its name - like the German National Socialists party of the 30s/40s for example - does not make that country Socialist. Every G20 country is Capitalist. Their citizens have property rights, the government does NOT own all means of production. Google 'socialism' for a definition if you doubt me.
@blizardp No. It's not. It has socialised health care and thanks to Gordon Brown a socialised bankrupt bank (complete with socialised debts) but no socialised factories and the population have full property rights. The UK's 'means of production' are all privately owned. The UK, like every other country in the G8 is capitalist.
@KungfuCow5 Yes, and the UK *is a country in its own right*. Hence it - and not its constituent countries - having a seat on the UN, being a member of the EU, having a veto, being one of the largest economies in the world.
@revelationmd It's disappointing that a man of your age and experience views Tony Benn in such a way. I'm not arguing with you but you seem to be countering reasonable and workable alternative ideas with the extremes that they could lead to. Our country combines elements of socialism and capitalism with democracy, the problems arise when there is an imbalance of either. People don't vote because there is no one to vote for. You may disagree with his views but he is far from a moron.
@alanthe2 Sorry you feel that way. And you are right that calling Tony Benn a moron is totally over the top - I take that back. It just saddens me that decades after winning the battle of ideas that was the cold war, having convinced socialised economies to turn capitalist, and having seen them flourish as a result, we now have a new generation, fed on nonsense from the OWS crowd and the Michael Moores of this world calling for a new road to serfdom.
@revelationmd I understand what you're saying, for me I've come to realise I don't have a preference, socialism, capitalism, whatever, for regular people like you and me, we have to try and make whatever system we have work for us in order to succeed or sometimes just make ends meet.
I admire Tony Benn, not because of his beliefs or what he says but the way in which he says it. He has passion and he believes what he says, not like these airbrushed autobots we have to vote for nowadays.
Tony Benn mentioned there are two ways you control people. One frighten them( kept in fear of something) and two, demoralise them (through debt). David Icke says the same thing in his speeches. Whether you like it or not society is controlled and what we think of as free will is the actaully the will of someone else imposed on society.
gold is the money og kings silver the money of G/men barter the money of peasants n debt the money of slavery, give me a gun i'll rob bank give me a bank i'll rob the world WHY was this exceptional politician wasted Not since T Jefferson has the world had anyone like this great n Honourable man
@polygamous1 It was not just the media that stuck the knife in, his worst enemies were in the Labour party itself. The Right of the Labour party, briefed and misled, the media lapped up. They called him a loony, an extremist and a traitor to the party to make sure he was never elected "For the good of the party and country". Then they left and formed a new party; as a result labour spent years in the wilderness and ended up with Blair. So who was treacherous?
@sonofcy of course Because even most labour voters wanted him he was Never endowred by the national executive therefore he was fighting a loosing batle in the end the country lost the world lost n we ended up with another tory n new "labour" i stopped voting when Tony Benn "lost" the ledership we NEED a system where ppl have the right to chose who will represent them Not the national executive n where ppl have the right to sack their MP if he does totally different from his election promises
The greatest general election we never had. 1983, with Thatcher as leader of the Conservatives and Benn the leader of Labour, now that would have been a contest!!
@tanpiltanpil we never had cause the labour national executive denied us the opportunity what kind of demogracy it this when Most labour voters wanted T Benn as their Leader but the NE did Not want for reasons i will Never understand just to think how much better our country n the world would have been without thacherism
she sold all the N sea oil post ofice telecom all given as tax relieves to the super rich destroying the lives of so many mining communities too
@tanpiltanpil It would have made no difference who was leader of the Labour party in 1983. After the Falklands, Thatcher could have promised to sacrifice every first born male baby and still she would have been elected. The Falklands was about her survival most of all.
If I were denied a claim for a life threatening condition. I would ask the managers name then would find out were he lives bring a gun with me and make sure he pays dearly for his decision by not killing him but one of his family members instead.
It seems that the people who are scared by socialism are the ones that least understand it and are the ones who are not affected by the cataclismic failures of capitalism. Too many people just are not informed about the alternatives. Or don't want to be.
@maxiboy666 Yeah, how dare he say that people are poor?! What kind of socialist prick makes us think about the majority of people in this world who are suffering? HOW DARE HE!
Scared, maybe. Demoralized? Probably. But Benn belonged to a party which essentially dumped the poor in '97 after it was proved consecutively that catering mainly to them made them unelectable.
Once, Blair said - most people aren't actually that interested in politics. They just want to get on with their daily lives.
@happyuk06 - you are a moron. I thought that even the most rightwing troll wouldn't suggest that socialism was a capitalist invention. Seems I was wrong...
Benn can't get over the fact that the British never did want his style of socialism. If they did they'd have voted for it and continued voting for it. Brits don't like extremes and want middle of the roaders like Blair and Cameron, Clegg et al.
Socialism was invented by the upper class to keeping the working class as working class. A socialist is to be trusted even less than the most deranged capitalist bastard.
I saw "Sicko" at the theater. I actually saw it twice. Both times, at the end of the film, the audience stood up and applauded. Everybody should see this film. If you still believe that the American System of Heath Care is the best in the world, you're not thinking rationally. Look at the statistics regarding our system's performance in terms of infant mortality, life span and so on. Last check we were 39th. General health, we were something like 72nd. It's not right or fair.
3 riots in UK this year. 1: in london (lib-dem offices trashed) over uni fees. 2: august, because of a shooting... followed by 3: looting! Lets be very clear this was NOT a riot! nothing to do with anything but greedy selfish people hell bent on criminal destruction and theft: thatcherite me me me values, no demographic. None of these were caused by socialism, in fact more likely caused by the lack of socialism.
Tony Benn, back when the Labour party gave a flying fuck about its people. The damage New Labour has done to the reputation of Old Labour is a much-overlooked but incredibly tragic thing.
But its so obviously false. Only a small minority in western societies could be described as "poor" and "demoralised", and that small minority is too a-political to be frightened by anything politicians say. Most people in the west are comfortably off, fairly contented, and feel generally secure, and that is why there is no imminent or obvious threat of social upheaval or state failure.
@laptoplarryspc I conceded that there is a discontented minority in western societies, and rioting is the natural way for them to express their sense of marginalisation. The other 99% (who are not rioting) are fairly contented. Benn's analysis is primitive. The idea that the reason most of us are not dissenting is obviously not that we are too poor, demoralised or frightened; it is because we too comfy to be bothered.
@laptoplarryspc I conceded that there is a discontented minority in western societies, and rioting is the natural way for them to express their sense of marginalisation. The other 99% (who are not rioting) are fairly contented. Benn's analysis is primitive. The reason most of us are not dissenting is obviously not that we are too poor, demoralised or frightened; it is because we too comfy to be bothered.
True story. My father, one of my best friends, died treating patience that he cared about.he was a physician. Wells Fargo own the mortgage on my fathers house. because my father lived in a rural community it took us six months to receive my father death certificate. With out the death certificate Wells Fargo refused to accept payment from me or my brother for the mortgage and finally put the house in fore closer and then to add salt to the wound they are trying to sue me for an unpaid dept.
Today's economy is a world economy. We as people of the world need to stand up for our rights! It is time to stop the train wreck of greed that has swept over us like the Black Death of the Medieval period! We must stand as one and refuse business with those that treat us as cattle! If we work together we can do it!
One percent of the world's population owns eighty percent of the world's wealth!!! I would like to see anyone who could justfy this situation........apart from the aforementioned one percent!
Tony Benn......intelligent, understanding, outspoken, caring .....my hero!
Socialism fails wherever it is tried. Failure of the welfare state = riots. I wonder what Tony Benn thinks of all the rioting and looting in the UK recently.
Socialism failed? Dictatorships fail, not socialism. Whenever socialism is combined with democracy(western europe, scandinavia, japan, canada ect) they leave capitalism in the dust. How exactly have scandinacia failed, and US succeeded? Please explain!
Do you understand anything? You don't even understand WHY they have riots.
@acrovader Failure of the welfare state = riots? Really I did not know the US was a socialist country? Look at wiki on riots over the last 100 years. The US outnumbers anywhere else for the numbers of riots, so by your scale the US must be a socialist country
@sonofcy Dunno what the original post was for this response... but number of riots isn't a useful figure. Its like comparing GDP of two countries.. who have different populations. Per Capita would be more useful. The UK is 90% White. And riots in the states were primarily down to racial issues in and after the Civil Rights Movement. Or over Vietnam.
Whereas the UK's issues have stemmed from primarily economic issues, ironically. Thatcher's reforms in the 80s being the primary example.
@bumshka21 The original post was by some dickwad who equated riots with the the supposed failure of the welfare state; I was just throwing his own moronic statement back at him.
@sonofcy Ah fair enough. I had originally taken that position but it really turned out to be mainly opportunistic thefts and people with no real grievances... What's most disappointing I guess is that it would feel like that real peaceful recourse hadn't been exhausted prior to the riots. That they just took place over the shooting by police and not because of anything more substantial (in terms of grievances against the welfare state).
@acrovader If Socialism is doomed to fail why does the US expend billions trying to frustrate it wherever it breaks out--everything from sanctions to sabotage. Chile in the 70s; Venezuela today. The American state is under the control of capitalism; they see socialism as a danger to their control of the world. Imagine what would happen if poor countries kept their resources for the good of all? A better question might be: why are you so down on socialism? What do you know about it?
@acrovader there rioting because of the death of a man shot dead by police, not because socialism. Was the 1992 LA riots cause by capitalism? no, nor was the 2011 London riots caused by socialism. Has socialism failed in Scandinavia? Japan?. Use something else to push ur propaganda because the riots weren't caused by socialism
@Dalek1230 You absolute moron, Tony Benn is 10 times the man you'll ever be, at least he understands issues such as morality and democracy which that facist dictatorial bitch thatcher couldnt get her head around.
@golsno147 you want proof of people who hate big government? I direct you to the hundreds of millions of east Europeans who fought for freedom in the 80's :) your the reason the soviet union fell, you don't understand that the people DON'T WANT SOCIALISM , they want FREEDOM and LIBERTY they want the MAN TO BE THE MASTER AND THE STATE THE SERVANT. As Maggie said you'd rather the poor were poorer
@golsno147 why? Because mrs thatcher never lost and Niel Kinnock got twiddly twit. you don't understand why the last government was kicked out, because it adopted socialist and liberal policies you describe! One of the reasons I hate socialism is because it's a lie! It is the worst for the poor, it is the equal sharing of misery! Under Maggie the poor got richer, more than anyone else. the gap increased between the rich and poor but who cares, everyone had more money!
@BlackRoof Unfortunately you can not remove america's veto. WHY? Because america, Russia, England, and to a lessor degree France established the UN along with the World Bank and IMF after WWII. Those citizens who want the states out of the UN don't really understand that america will never let go its choke hold on the world and therefore will not leave the UN. The other countries are like dogs coming to the master begging for some scraps. Russia was the only nation that resisted-till collapse.
International musicians cooperate to release a historic UK single Freedom for Palestine. Release 3 July
Freedom for Palestine - OneWorld
youtube.com/watch?v=V28HnPTYz-I&feature=feedlik
Pre-order now from ITunes & HMV Digital 2011.
Featuring: Maxi Jazz (Faithless), Dave Randall (Slovo/Faithless), LSK, comedian Mark Thomas, Jamie Catto (1 Giant Leap), Andrea Britton, Harry Collier, Sudha Kheterpalthe London Community Gospel Choir and many more!
@functionalist972 As soon as private corporations take over healthcare, the primary objective becomes profit, not the health and wellbeing of patients.
@mmscott9 but the amount of people Pinochet got killed were flea bitings compared to Mao, Mao got more people killed than Stalin and Hitler put together
@pertuk Still, Thatcher and even Bush Sr used their weight to get Pinochet released when he was arrested here for human rights violation. Though it seems if you implement free market principles you are exempt, despite the number of people you torture or murder
@Dalek1230 Stalin was a communist (not a socialist) you cannot be both no matter what you call your political party. Hitler was a racist Nationaist who did not give a crap economics as long as it supplied him with weapons. Margaret Thatcher was by her own admission a socialist remember "the NHS is safe with me". Regards
@davijeph What? Your amusing, the last line is bollocks Mrs thatcher killed socialism ( thankfully ) in this country. Stalin called for "socialism" in one country"
@Dalek1230 My last line might be "bollocks" but it is what she famously said and while she undoubtedly did not like the NHS even more so the welfare state she was canny enough too know that if she wished to stay in power she had to leave both in place. Remember it was her fellow conservatives that destroyed her not the socialists. What ever Stalin called for the fact remains he was a communist not a socialist.
@Dalek1230 Hitler was not a socialist; this word was added into the party name to secure support from the workers. After he was in power, he screwed them over by gearing industry to war production and all socialist tendecies were abandoned after the Night of the Long Knives.
Today, even New Labour has socialist leanings, and Red Ed seems to be committed, but we shall see - you can't believe promises nowadays. It seems a foregone conclusion that he'll win the next election after this government.
@BasilFawlty4444 Incorrect look at him you clearly know very little. He and Gobails were always very, very anti capitalist. I dont know what history books you have been reading
@Dalek1230 Officially, maybe, but in reality, large German buisnesses thrived on the rearmament programme. Hitler completely abandoned any pretences on worker's rights after the Night of the Long Knives; the socialist SA was utterly subjugated after declaring their intention to bring about a fully socialist revolution.
Take IG Farben for example. The profits of this buisness increased more than threefold under the Four Year Plan. Hitler favoured big buisness over the workers in order to rearm.
@Dalek1230 What you must remember is that being anti-capitalist is not the same as being socialist. Hitler's party may have been called the National Socialists, but it can be more closely defined without the latter word; it was a nationalist party, committed only to rearming Germany and restoring German pride.
I doubt if there is a single historian that thinks Hitler was a true socialist. The number things he did that screwed over the workers of Germany in favour of rearmament...
@BasilFawlty4444 I think old "Dalek1230" knows he is being obtuse but he obviously likes to try and wind people up. I doubt he like his name sake is open to reason and knowledge but acts simply on his internal programming. Certainly I suspect from what you write your knowledge of history goes deeper than simply having the ability to watch Dr Who.
@davijeph At least i am not obsessed by health care like you. Really get a life :) Get it in your mind Government = Wastage. Socialists never understand this and thus socialists get nowhere. You never understand why, the reason - Its my money. People hate the idea of their money being spent my SOMEONE ELSE They never will :) This is not Stalins Russia , its a free world. i Will pay for the services i use. The NHS is a mess over hear, thats why we have so many private health firms too :)
@Dalek1230 I don't think I'm obsessed by anything but I suppose obsession is a type of insanity and the point about being insane is you never know you are. From the way you write I suspect i'm talking too a sociopath. Does lacking empathy and a disregard for the well being of others strike the bell? "I Will pay for the services I use," you certainly will along with all everything else the Government tells you too pay for if you don't like then emigrate too Somalia they don't pay taxes their.
@davijeph Nope I tell the government what to do, its called democracy :) Not the other way around. Thats why everyone hates big government / socialism/ your warped way of thinking . I am a free man and i do as i wish. This is the embodiment of conservative thought and why maggie thatcher was so damn popular :)
@Dalek1230 Well if you believe in democracy then we have something in common. If you believe in democracy then you believe in what democracy stands for. You must except the rights and responsibilities that living in a democratic capitalist liberal socialist society brings too each member. Mrs Thatcher did many things good and bad whilst in office remember the NHS is safe in our hands. I'm surprised you admire Thatcher so much given one of her lasting legacies was centralisation of power .
@Dalek1230 Where's your evidence that everyone" hates big government./socialism."? Can you explain your obvious indifference and lack of empathy towards the millions of innocents dying from disease and starvation
despite availability of ample technology and resources which are not provided simply because there is no profit in it for the priveleged elite you support. Is it a question of putting your head in the sand on such issues or, more likely, a case of "fuck you Jack, I'm all right?
@golsno147 That right there is a textbook definition of charity, nothing wrong with that but it shouldn't be dictated to people in the way Benn demands.
Just imagine how much the charitable sector would benefit if government was not confiscating such vast sums of wealth from the productive part of the economy and wasting it on such frivolous things...
Most experts agree the industrial revolution wouldn't have happened if we had the same level of state control in the 19th century as we do today.
@basch2020 I fail to see where Benn is "dictating to people or making demands" in this video? He only refers to the disillusionment, fear apathy and hopelessness of voters having been brainwashed from cradle to the grave by powerful media support of a priveleged elite ( not Government) who effectively control wealth. distribution.
"Confiscation" and "waste on frivolous things" as opinions which are controversial and debatable but I don't believe any economist has proved to be an "expert"
@BasilFawlty4444 well your talking to one. He built roads and hiked taxs spent money. more money.
Let me just rip up your argument with a quote from the man.
"We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions."
@Dalek1230 Look mate, what Hitler said and what Hitler did were two different things. You may also know that he said that Europe was Germany's Lebensraum. Look where that got him.
He also promised that the Jews would be relocated to Siberia or Madagascar, but look what happened in reality.
What Hitler said was never reliable. I will find you some quotes from historians.
Btw, I concluded in my exam (2wks ago) that Hitler was never committed to workers rights. Why did he abolish the trade unions?
@Dalek1230 Hitler was a politician, as well as an evil man. I don't think we can compare Jesus to Hitler.
The suriving diaries and records of the time indicate that Hitler's decision to abolish the trade unions was a move to get paly with big buisness for rearmament.
Indeed, working hours increased significantly, and conditions and pay decreased. Absenteeism tripled during the 4 year plan, and on several occasions, workers were arrested for damaging the equipment in protest against oppression.
@Dalek1230 I think that we can safely say, therefore, that Hitler didn't give a shit about the workers, their rights, their pay, their conditions, their family lives.
From the start of the 4 Year Plan, their first and only priority was to rearm and achieve autarky. The workers were nothing but a means by which this was done.
@Dalek1230 Infact, none of the people you listed there were true socialists, and not at all like the moderate socialism that we have in this country. When I think of British socialism, I think of well-meaning men like Attlee, Bevan or (more recently) Kinnock. And of these, Attlee and Bevan are remembered most for the NHS. Suffice to say, I think socialism has a pretty positive history in this country, especially in comparison to other countries' definitions.
About his comment on debt~In the Bible it states "the borrower is servant to the lender" and our economic system as hard as it may be for some to grok~is debt based in that the money begins or is created out of nothing by banks as debt. Our money supply consists of our and other peoples debts. If we could get out debt as a society there would be no money. Its a trick of numbers and its captured the whole world.
I think Tony made a bit of an error there, the top 1% of the world's population owns roughly 40% of the worlds wealth.
Good stuff though. Never one to fear speaking out about issues. I admire this guy hugely for all the times he's stood up to the news networks on-air, takes courage and brains.
The rich are rich because they pay no taxes. If they paid taxes they would not be rich. If they worked they would not need priests, politicians and armies to defend their wealth and power. No, the do nothing capitalist class hold power for the same reason the aristocracy held power before the French Revolution and the Communist Party held power during the long reign of the Soviet Union---they have great PR and a monopoly on power.
If I may, approximately 55% of the all government's spending goes to social security, welfare, and medicare/medicaid. Who says the poor aren't being provided for? The top 50% Americans in terms of income pay 97% of all of the income tax. We do need to redistribute wealth in America, the poor do need our help, but it should be through charities, and people willingly giving up their money, not by the government using the threat of jail to coerce you to hand over your money.
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Sicko is nothing but a movie for a stupid audience. The fact that Moore could shame us Americans into thinking that by going to a Cuban Communist Potemkin village and extolling the virtues of Socialism with this farce propaganda movie is preposterous. The fact of the matter is that Cuba is a Fascist country and a one part police state. What we Americans have is far far better than the average $20 a month wage. Only the idiot Democrats could be duped by this two bit Communist, Michael Moore.
@StefanZ17 I also doubt you've ever been to Cuba. I talked to many people on the streets and despite the low living wages, the cost of living is extremely low, and the people are very satisfied with their lives. Imagine if the USA actually stopped their illegal trade embargo and the Cuban people were allowed 'Freedom' and 'Free trade' of state-capitalism, their lives would probably be worse and many people would be exploited. And your interpretation of Communism/Socialism is laughable. Fool.
I don't have to go to Cuba to drink the cool-aid. There are millions of Cuban Americans that reside in this country and live in prosperity to a degree that is higher than the average American. Do you think they want to return to $20/month? NOT! And by who's law is our trade embargo with that Fascist backwater deemed illegal? No matter how you and the left Potemkinize Cuba with BS, there are still people fleeing that Communist crap hole to this very day.
@StefanZ17 Lets be clear about this! The only reason people in Cuba earn so little is because the USA and their bullying allies will not trade with communist nations because they don't like it. Like Tony says above, if poor people felt confident enough to vote we would all have a full and proper democratic revolution which is what the bullying western allies are really scared of. They talk about choice as long as it isn't against what they want!
@mrdanthguitarman The people in Cuba talk about the blockade. They know whose fault it is if things are tough, and even after 50 years the US don't seem to be getting it: the embargo isn't working.
Even under all that pressure, they people there get top-notch free healthcare. Freedom of speech? I spoke to taxi drivers in Havana who were as outspoken about politics as anywhere in the world. Some liked Castro, some were critical, but all resented the US first attacking, then blockading them.
Sicko is nothing but a movie for a stupid audience. The fact that Moore could shame us Americans into thinking that by going to a Cuban Communist Potemkin village and extolling the virtues of Socialism with this farce propaganda movie is preposterous. The fact of the matter is that Cuba is a Fascist country and a one part police state. What we Americans have is far far better than the average $20 a month wage. Only the idiot Democrats could be duped by this two bit Communist, Michael Moore.
@LaynezWorld we don’t have a solely private health care system! plus, in our model the private companies are part of the problem. as they are everywhere.
Anobody know what country dont have free health care ? I only know for america...is there any other country ?
numerocro 23 hours ago
We threw the limeys out in 1813. They came back and conquered our economy in 1913. Methinks we gottum big surprise comin' in 2013. Hoo-boy!
profnasty 3 weeks ago
@profnasty not before we torched your whitehouse, and you fucked your own economy. sorry wall st did,
MrXclio 5 days ago
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The Labour Party is anti-British.
The Labour Party is anti-white.
The Labour Party is anti-English.
The Labour Party is anti-Christian.
Old Labour - New Labour - Dead Labour.
karezza6 3 weeks ago
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Let us all help to speed the day when this wonderful earth and its rich resources are held in common for the benefit of all humanity.
majorMcpharter 1 month ago
What is it with Americans??They always seem to get communism and socialism mixed up....plus i heard there media is censored and there brainwashed into thinkin things about socialism...The more i read from them the more it makes me believe its true!!!...My cous is a journalist went to live there for a bit, couldn't believe how much of the media they don't see/taken out whilst most of the world can see it.....Pretty scary stuff!!!!!
oomoonbeam 1 month ago 2
Nicely done ~ in a perfect nutshell. Thanks.
steelyman08 1 month ago
Tony Benn said, "the Labour Party is not a Socialist party".
NearAbbeyRoad 1 month ago
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Benn would have made the UK very rich if PM. In the 1970s he advocated Land Valuation Taxation with reduced Income Tax. He turned to the left, after being in office in the 196/70s.
He wrote:
"I experienced the power of industrialists and bankers to get their way by use of the crudest form of economic pressure, even blackmail, against a Labour Government. Compared to this, the pressure brought to bear in industrial disputes is minuscule"
He saw it coming decades ago. A VERY BRIGHT MAN
NearAbbeyRoad 1 month ago
Shackelled with debt brought on by huge unsustainable monopolies run by politicians who have no idea about anything other than being professional politicians? Is that what he means? Lets spend everyones money for them. How does a country make money? Doesnt matter! Lets spend spend spend!!!! We know best! We're politicians!!!
jonpy55 1 month ago
Billy Connolly: "Don't vote, it just encourages them."
SpidermanInLondon 1 month ago
Tony Benn is one of very few people who make me proud to be British.
dVertSon 1 month ago
I love Tony Benn he is a great man, I have never seen a debate when he has been upstaged as he knows what he is talking about and he believes it. Not a lot of politicians can say that. It will be a sad day when he is no longer in the world.
jsdh1978 1 month ago 2
Benn and Moore in one room. It's like a moron convention. You want to see something that would stop people voting - make every citizen beholden to the state. Socialize all means of production and welfare so that every voter is beholden to the all powerful state. See how many come out to vote against you then. Better still, don't do that and just look at countries that have - not too big on democracy are they?
revelationmd 2 months ago
@revelationmd Well, you're wrong on. Every country is different. Look at Egypt. Who would have predicted that? Look at Syria? Some cultures can get to the end of their tether, whatever the system. Compare that with America with 46 million living in poverty, (US Gov figures this year so it's probably millions more). What do Americans do? Almost nothing. 'Occupy' is a joke and is already failing. It's about the culture of the people, not the system. US people are pussies. Others have balls.
sausagedogheaven 2 months ago
@revelationmd You could also be describing fascist rule. Either too far left or right is bad but far left is Communism and I don't think Tony Benn would describe himself as a communist just someone who wants the balance of power to be shifted slightly so that things are more equal and I don't see how that can be a bad thing?
jsdh1978 1 month ago
@revelationmd As opposed to being beholden to private interests no-one votes for?
OLDINDIANS 1 month ago
@OLDINDIANS Obviously you are referencing the Labour party and their friends in the banks that called on Gordon Brown to socialize their debts. Course, Gordon Brown makes a nice side income from giving speaches at bankers dinners these days.
Course croney capitalism is wrong - but you don't even have to corrupt socialism for it to be wrong. It's fundamentally wrong and inevitably leads to dictatorships. Got a corrupt MP in a capitalist society? Vote him out. Won't happen in N Korea.
revelationmd 1 month ago
@revelationmd north korea is not a socialist country you idiot, its a totalitarian dictatorship
blizardp 1 month ago
@blizardp Of the five remaining Communist states in the world, North Korea is one of only two (along with Cuba) with an almost entirely government-planned, state-owned economy. The Central Planning Committee prepares, supervises and implements economic plans, while a General Bureau of Provincial Industry in each region is responsible for the management of local manufacturing facilities, production, resource allocation and sales.
That's socialism. Moron.
revelationmd 1 month ago
@revelationmd AARRRGGHH - confusing socialism and communism! IT HURTS!
TRUE socialism is something closer - but still a lot better than - what Clement Attlee tried to implement in his programme of nationalisation.
Democracy, socialism and affluence for all is the main goal.
BasilFawlty4444 1 month ago
@BasilFawlty4444 AAARRGGHH - confusing socialism with what you wish socialism was! IT IS GETTING REPETITIVE.
Definition of Socialism: Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
Central planning of an economy. Like in North Korea.
revelationmd 1 month ago
@revelationmd The former Clause 4 of the Labour Party (commitment to nationalisation):
"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service."
- Almost idential to your definition.
BasilFawlty4444 1 month ago
@BasilFawlty4444 Indeed, what people tend to miss is that this ''equitable'' distribution always has to be overseen by central planners. And as the old saying goes - power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
revelationmd 1 month ago
@revelationmd
"Definition of Socialism: Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy"
Do not confuse a Communist dictatorship and democratic Socialism. Democratic Socialism gives the highest quality of life in the world.
NearAbbeyRoad 1 month ago
@NearAbbeyRoad Do not confuse capitalist countries that are governed by political parties with the word 'socialist' in their name (like those in Scandinavia - or, come to that, the National Socialists of 1930s Germany) for socialist countries.
Socialism - in it's economic sense - is when the government owns ALL means of production. Socialist countries give the lowest quality of life in the world.
revelationmd 1 month ago
@revelationmd
"Do not confuse capitalist countries that are governed by political parties with the word 'socialist' in their name (like those in Scandinavia - or, come to that, the National Socialists of 1930s Germany) for socialist countries."
You cannot differentiate between Communist dictatorships and democratic socialists. You must be American.
NearAbbeyRoad 1 month ago
@NearAbbeyRoad Or just someone with access to a dictionary.
revelationmd 1 month ago
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@revelationmd
No. someone who cannot differentiate between Communist dictatorships and democratic socialism. Only brainwashed Yanks spout what you spout.
NearAbbeyRoad 1 month ago
@revelationmd in fact it's not true. All of the G20 countries exept US are socialist. Socialism can be established in many different ways. Socialist countries, since the XIX century, always had the greatest quality of life, and what is important to know, for the WHOLE society. In US, only people with enough riches ( lot of money ) can have the same services and quality of life than the people in socialist countries. Socialism is not against private companies, but again TRUSTS
MrJacobpoliquin 1 month ago
@MrJacobpoliquin I'm getting a bit bored of posting this. What you are describing is what you wish Socialism is. Just because a political party has ''socialism'' in its name - like the German National Socialists party of the 30s/40s for example - does not make that country Socialist. Every G20 country is Capitalist. Their citizens have property rights, the government does NOT own all means of production. Google 'socialism' for a definition if you doubt me.
revelationmd 1 month ago
@revelationmd yeah i'm the moron. Communism is not the same as socialism. The UK is a largely socialist country in many ways.
blizardp 1 month ago
@blizardp No. It's not. It has socialised health care and thanks to Gordon Brown a socialised bankrupt bank (complete with socialised debts) but no socialised factories and the population have full property rights. The UK's 'means of production' are all privately owned. The UK, like every other country in the G8 is capitalist.
revelationmd 1 month ago
@blizardp So is America.
KungfuCow5 1 week ago
@blizardp The UK isn't a country. It's a collection of constituent countries.
KungfuCow5 1 week ago
@KungfuCow5 The UK is a country in its owns right. ( >.0)
UnitedKingdomify 2 days ago
@UnitedKingdomify No, the UK is a collection of constituent countries; Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England.
KungfuCow5 1 day ago
@KungfuCow5 Yes, and the UK *is a country in its own right*. Hence it - and not its constituent countries - having a seat on the UN, being a member of the EU, having a veto, being one of the largest economies in the world.
UnitedKingdomify 1 day ago
@UnitedKingdomify Narp.
KungfuCow5 1 day ago
@KungfuCow5 Herp derp.
UnitedKingdomify 1 day ago
@revelationmd It's disappointing that a man of your age and experience views Tony Benn in such a way. I'm not arguing with you but you seem to be countering reasonable and workable alternative ideas with the extremes that they could lead to. Our country combines elements of socialism and capitalism with democracy, the problems arise when there is an imbalance of either. People don't vote because there is no one to vote for. You may disagree with his views but he is far from a moron.
alanthe2 2 weeks ago
@alanthe2 Sorry you feel that way. And you are right that calling Tony Benn a moron is totally over the top - I take that back. It just saddens me that decades after winning the battle of ideas that was the cold war, having convinced socialised economies to turn capitalist, and having seen them flourish as a result, we now have a new generation, fed on nonsense from the OWS crowd and the Michael Moores of this world calling for a new road to serfdom.
revelationmd 2 weeks ago
@revelationmd I understand what you're saying, for me I've come to realise I don't have a preference, socialism, capitalism, whatever, for regular people like you and me, we have to try and make whatever system we have work for us in order to succeed or sometimes just make ends meet.
I admire Tony Benn, not because of his beliefs or what he says but the way in which he says it. He has passion and he believes what he says, not like these airbrushed autobots we have to vote for nowadays.
alanthe2 1 week ago
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Please please go to FB page Bring Back Tony and click 'like' We need this man to lead our peaceful revolution. Africa had Mandela, we need Benn.
minxmenaminx 2 months ago
Tony Benn mentioned there are two ways you control people. One frighten them( kept in fear of something) and two, demoralise them (through debt). David Icke says the same thing in his speeches. Whether you like it or not society is controlled and what we think of as free will is the actaully the will of someone else imposed on society.
TheGreatPerahia 3 months ago
gold is the money og kings silver the money of G/men barter the money of peasants n debt the money of slavery, give me a gun i'll rob bank give me a bank i'll rob the world WHY was this exceptional politician wasted Not since T Jefferson has the world had anyone like this great n Honourable man
polygamous1 3 months ago
@polygamous1 It was not just the media that stuck the knife in, his worst enemies were in the Labour party itself. The Right of the Labour party, briefed and misled, the media lapped up. They called him a loony, an extremist and a traitor to the party to make sure he was never elected "For the good of the party and country". Then they left and formed a new party; as a result labour spent years in the wilderness and ended up with Blair. So who was treacherous?
sonofcy 2 months ago
@sonofcy of course Because even most labour voters wanted him he was Never endowred by the national executive therefore he was fighting a loosing batle in the end the country lost the world lost n we ended up with another tory n new "labour" i stopped voting when Tony Benn "lost" the ledership we NEED a system where ppl have the right to chose who will represent them Not the national executive n where ppl have the right to sack their MP if he does totally different from his election promises
polygamous1 2 months ago
The greatest general election we never had. 1983, with Thatcher as leader of the Conservatives and Benn the leader of Labour, now that would have been a contest!!
tanpiltanpil 3 months ago
@tanpiltanpil we never had cause the labour national executive denied us the opportunity what kind of demogracy it this when Most labour voters wanted T Benn as their Leader but the NE did Not want for reasons i will Never understand just to think how much better our country n the world would have been without thacherism
she sold all the N sea oil post ofice telecom all given as tax relieves to the super rich destroying the lives of so many mining communities too
polygamous1 3 months ago
@tanpiltanpil It would have made no difference who was leader of the Labour party in 1983. After the Falklands, Thatcher could have promised to sacrifice every first born male baby and still she would have been elected. The Falklands was about her survival most of all.
sonofcy 2 months ago
That makes a lot of sense.
andenisa 3 months ago
If I were denied a claim for a life threatening condition. I would ask the managers name then would find out were he lives bring a gun with me and make sure he pays dearly for his decision by not killing him but one of his family members instead.
dinamo4889 3 months ago
"an educated, healthy and confident nation is harder to govern" genius
franmicgom 3 months ago
true.
cesar1561 3 months ago
It seems that the people who are scared by socialism are the ones that least understand it and are the ones who are not affected by the cataclismic failures of capitalism. Too many people just are not informed about the alternatives. Or don't want to be.
michaellammiman 4 months ago
Tony Benn: Socialist scum of the earth.
maxiboy666 4 months ago
@maxiboy666 Yeah, how dare he say that people are poor?! What kind of socialist prick makes us think about the majority of people in this world who are suffering? HOW DARE HE!
CraigMetalHead 4 months ago
@maxiboy666 ...you poor sad person...for god's sake, DO SOME READING/RESEARCH...if you can read !
Lillywhite68 3 months ago
Scared, maybe. Demoralized? Probably. But Benn belonged to a party which essentially dumped the poor in '97 after it was proved consecutively that catering mainly to them made them unelectable.
Once, Blair said - most people aren't actually that interested in politics. They just want to get on with their daily lives.
bumshka21 4 months ago
@happyuk06 - you are a moron. I thought that even the most rightwing troll wouldn't suggest that socialism was a capitalist invention. Seems I was wrong...
camscotland 4 months ago 2
Benn can't get over the fact that the British never did want his style of socialism. If they did they'd have voted for it and continued voting for it. Brits don't like extremes and want middle of the roaders like Blair and Cameron, Clegg et al.
Socialism was invented by the upper class to keeping the working class as working class. A socialist is to be trusted even less than the most deranged capitalist bastard.
happyuk06 4 months ago
I saw "Sicko" at the theater. I actually saw it twice. Both times, at the end of the film, the audience stood up and applauded. Everybody should see this film. If you still believe that the American System of Heath Care is the best in the world, you're not thinking rationally. Look at the statistics regarding our system's performance in terms of infant mortality, life span and so on. Last check we were 39th. General health, we were something like 72nd. It's not right or fair.
dnsmithnc 4 months ago
3 riots in UK this year. 1: in london (lib-dem offices trashed) over uni fees. 2: august, because of a shooting... followed by 3: looting! Lets be very clear this was NOT a riot! nothing to do with anything but greedy selfish people hell bent on criminal destruction and theft: thatcherite me me me values, no demographic. None of these were caused by socialism, in fact more likely caused by the lack of socialism.
jesusisasocialist 4 months ago
Tony Benn, back when the Labour party gave a flying fuck about its people. The damage New Labour has done to the reputation of Old Labour is a much-overlooked but incredibly tragic thing.
LoafOfPint 4 months ago 2
@LoafOfPint I agree; I want Old Labour back!
000000poizen000000 4 months ago
Just as a theory, what would happen if we - the people - TAKE the 80% back of the 1% (by any means)....would that make a better world?
BlueBellyfluff 5 months ago
But its so obviously false. Only a small minority in western societies could be described as "poor" and "demoralised", and that small minority is too a-political to be frightened by anything politicians say. Most people in the west are comfortably off, fairly contented, and feel generally secure, and that is why there is no imminent or obvious threat of social upheaval or state failure.
stilicho2 5 months ago
@stilicho2 Then why did the riots start
laptoplarryspc 5 months ago
@laptoplarryspc I conceded that there is a discontented minority in western societies, and rioting is the natural way for them to express their sense of marginalisation. The other 99% (who are not rioting) are fairly contented. Benn's analysis is primitive. The idea that the reason most of us are not dissenting is obviously not that we are too poor, demoralised or frightened; it is because we too comfy to be bothered.
stilicho2 4 months ago
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@laptoplarryspc I conceded that there is a discontented minority in western societies, and rioting is the natural way for them to express their sense of marginalisation. The other 99% (who are not rioting) are fairly contented. Benn's analysis is primitive. The reason most of us are not dissenting is obviously not that we are too poor, demoralised or frightened; it is because we too comfy to be bothered.
stilicho2 4 months ago
@stilicho2 how wrong and ignorant you are.
Threepwoodist 4 months ago
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socialism is the way forward,there is too much of a gap between the rich and the poor.
monkeyman80100 5 months ago
True story. My father, one of my best friends, died treating patience that he cared about.he was a physician. Wells Fargo own the mortgage on my fathers house. because my father lived in a rural community it took us six months to receive my father death certificate. With out the death certificate Wells Fargo refused to accept payment from me or my brother for the mortgage and finally put the house in fore closer and then to add salt to the wound they are trying to sue me for an unpaid dept.
lostnsantarosa 5 months ago
Today's economy is a world economy. We as people of the world need to stand up for our rights! It is time to stop the train wreck of greed that has swept over us like the Black Death of the Medieval period! We must stand as one and refuse business with those that treat us as cattle! If we work together we can do it!
lostnsantarosa 5 months ago 2
One percent of the world's population owns eighty percent of the world's wealth!!! I would like to see anyone who could justfy this situation........apart from the aforementioned one percent!
Tony Benn......intelligent, understanding, outspoken, caring .....my hero!
MsBloodykids 5 months ago 2
socialism didnt fail in germany. germany blossomed under their regime.
carpet691 5 months ago
@carpet691 Well said.
laptoplarryspc 5 months ago
Socialism fails wherever it is tried. Failure of the welfare state = riots. I wonder what Tony Benn thinks of all the rioting and looting in the UK recently.
acrovader 5 months ago
@acrovader
Sir, read a book!
Socialism failed? Dictatorships fail, not socialism. Whenever socialism is combined with democracy(western europe, scandinavia, japan, canada ect) they leave capitalism in the dust. How exactly have scandinacia failed, and US succeeded? Please explain!
Do you understand anything? You don't even understand WHY they have riots.
TheSaltyAdmiral 5 months ago 10
@acrovader Failure of the welfare state = riots? Really I did not know the US was a socialist country? Look at wiki on riots over the last 100 years. The US outnumbers anywhere else for the numbers of riots, so by your scale the US must be a socialist country
sonofcy 5 months ago 40
@sonofcy Dunno what the original post was for this response... but number of riots isn't a useful figure. Its like comparing GDP of two countries.. who have different populations. Per Capita would be more useful. The UK is 90% White. And riots in the states were primarily down to racial issues in and after the Civil Rights Movement. Or over Vietnam.
Whereas the UK's issues have stemmed from primarily economic issues, ironically. Thatcher's reforms in the 80s being the primary example.
bumshka21 4 months ago
@bumshka21 The original post was by some dickwad who equated riots with the the supposed failure of the welfare state; I was just throwing his own moronic statement back at him.
sonofcy 4 months ago
@sonofcy Ah fair enough. I had originally taken that position but it really turned out to be mainly opportunistic thefts and people with no real grievances... What's most disappointing I guess is that it would feel like that real peaceful recourse hadn't been exhausted prior to the riots. That they just took place over the shooting by police and not because of anything more substantial (in terms of grievances against the welfare state).
Cheers
bumshka21 4 months ago
@acrovader If Socialism is doomed to fail why does the US expend billions trying to frustrate it wherever it breaks out--everything from sanctions to sabotage. Chile in the 70s; Venezuela today. The American state is under the control of capitalism; they see socialism as a danger to their control of the world. Imagine what would happen if poor countries kept their resources for the good of all? A better question might be: why are you so down on socialism? What do you know about it?
CobinRain 5 months ago
@acrovader there rioting because of the death of a man shot dead by police, not because socialism. Was the 1992 LA riots cause by capitalism? no, nor was the 2011 London riots caused by socialism. Has socialism failed in Scandinavia? Japan?. Use something else to push ur propaganda because the riots weren't caused by socialism
98raza20 5 months ago
Deep
DubstepSector 5 months ago
Tony Benn.The best Leader Britain never had.
billyhunchback 5 months ago 82
@billyhunchback Yup, out of all the people it would be best to never have led Britain, hes up there alright.
jonpy55 1 month ago
@davijeph amen to that, she handled the nhs without turning it into a big state dependcey mess like the socialists
Dalek1230 5 months ago
@Dalek1230 You absolute moron, Tony Benn is 10 times the man you'll ever be, at least he understands issues such as morality and democracy which that facist dictatorial bitch thatcher couldnt get her head around.
TheRacketBoss 5 months ago 2
I remember this part of the documentary. And all I remember thinking is that it is so true what his saying.
lifendsoon 6 months ago
@golsno147 you want proof of people who hate big government? I direct you to the hundreds of millions of east Europeans who fought for freedom in the 80's :) your the reason the soviet union fell, you don't understand that the people DON'T WANT SOCIALISM , they want FREEDOM and LIBERTY they want the MAN TO BE THE MASTER AND THE STATE THE SERVANT. As Maggie said you'd rather the poor were poorer
Dalek1230 6 months ago
@Dalek1230 As Maggie said "the NHS is safe in our hands"
davijeph 6 months ago
@Dalek1230
Oh, right. It's such a feeling of "freedom" to be bankrupted by medical debt, because you couldn't afford to buy health insurance.
I think it's a little naive for you to suppose that the Soviet Union fell exclusively because its people didn't want affordable health care, Dalek!
toilettduckk 5 months ago
@golsno147 why? Because mrs thatcher never lost and Niel Kinnock got twiddly twit. you don't understand why the last government was kicked out, because it adopted socialist and liberal policies you describe! One of the reasons I hate socialism is because it's a lie! It is the worst for the poor, it is the equal sharing of misery! Under Maggie the poor got richer, more than anyone else. the gap increased between the rich and poor but who cares, everyone had more money!
Dalek1230 6 months ago
Israel is trying to ETHNICALLY CLEANSE the area it regards as its own.
Zionist Israel WILL KILL anyone that stands in its way.
Why is there no WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL.
Why is Europe SILENT?
There are more than two countrie involved.
I DON'T CARE HOW BIG AMERICA IS.
EUROPE SHOULD STAND AGAINST THIS INHUMANE ISRAEL\AMERICA PACT.
Remove America's veto at the UN now!
BlackRoof 6 months ago
@BlackRoof Unfortunately you can not remove america's veto. WHY? Because america, Russia, England, and to a lessor degree France established the UN along with the World Bank and IMF after WWII. Those citizens who want the states out of the UN don't really understand that america will never let go its choke hold on the world and therefore will not leave the UN. The other countries are like dogs coming to the master begging for some scraps. Russia was the only nation that resisted-till collapse.
etcharrison 6 months ago
Everything this man said is true, we are the slaves with invisible chains made by banks and governments all over the world
Vorrutyer 6 months ago
Choice is a great idea if U have choices !!! The system is rigged in favor of the rich ... THE RUES DO NOT apply to everyone !!!
mba2ceo 6 months ago
some how he reminds me of shaun connorey
yogologo77 6 months ago
subverbum com loves Benn but hates credit rating agencies - check out our website
subverbum 6 months ago
This man got it all right if ur afraid u hope for the best and don't stand up because it might get worse.
heisenfeis 6 months ago
Why couldn't he come to the U.S. and be president? We desperately need one like him. What a great man.
asynkronos 6 months ago
lack of health care = lack of political efficacy.
yadig2012 7 months ago
Funny how this echoe's Marilyn Manson's sentiments to "keep everyone afraid" in "Bowling for Columbine"
femmefatale1990 7 months ago
He is being satirical in this video....saying it's a bad thing that this happens
emu168 7 months ago
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BlackRoof 8 months ago
if they try to get rid of the NHS there will be a revolution...now we have a chance to see if he was right
smile221 8 months ago
@functionalist972 As soon as private corporations take over healthcare, the primary objective becomes profit, not the health and wellbeing of patients.
aspirezakura 8 months ago
this was teken out of context this man Tony is describing what governments do not what he does or would do ConnieTalk you scum bag
theproudONE92 8 months ago
How can anyone takeTony Benn seriously when he admires Mao Tse Tung, the biggest mass murderer of the 20th century
pertuk 8 months ago
@pertuk Well Thatcher openly supported Pinochet..
mmscott9 8 months ago
@mmscott9 but the amount of people Pinochet got killed were flea bitings compared to Mao, Mao got more people killed than Stalin and Hitler put together
pertuk 8 months ago
@pertuk Still, Thatcher and even Bush Sr used their weight to get Pinochet released when he was arrested here for human rights violation. Though it seems if you implement free market principles you are exempt, despite the number of people you torture or murder
mmscott9 8 months ago
@mmscott9 The biggest killings on earth come from socialists . Hitler A National socialist.
Stalin a Maxest socialist
And Mao, a Maoist socialist
Dalek1230 8 months ago
@Dalek1230 Stalin was a communist (not a socialist) you cannot be both no matter what you call your political party. Hitler was a racist Nationaist who did not give a crap economics as long as it supplied him with weapons. Margaret Thatcher was by her own admission a socialist remember "the NHS is safe with me". Regards
davijeph 8 months ago
@davijeph What? Your amusing, the last line is bollocks Mrs thatcher killed socialism ( thankfully ) in this country. Stalin called for "socialism" in one country"
Are youright in the head man ?
Dalek1230 8 months ago
@Dalek1230 My last line might be "bollocks" but it is what she famously said and while she undoubtedly did not like the NHS even more so the welfare state she was canny enough too know that if she wished to stay in power she had to leave both in place. Remember it was her fellow conservatives that destroyed her not the socialists. What ever Stalin called for the fact remains he was a communist not a socialist.
davijeph 8 months ago
@Dalek1230 Hitler was not a socialist; this word was added into the party name to secure support from the workers. After he was in power, he screwed them over by gearing industry to war production and all socialist tendecies were abandoned after the Night of the Long Knives.
Today, even New Labour has socialist leanings, and Red Ed seems to be committed, but we shall see - you can't believe promises nowadays. It seems a foregone conclusion that he'll win the next election after this government.
BasilFawlty4444 7 months ago
@BasilFawlty4444 Incorrect look at him you clearly know very little. He and Gobails were always very, very anti capitalist. I dont know what history books you have been reading
Dalek1230 7 months ago
@Dalek1230 Officially, maybe, but in reality, large German buisnesses thrived on the rearmament programme. Hitler completely abandoned any pretences on worker's rights after the Night of the Long Knives; the socialist SA was utterly subjugated after declaring their intention to bring about a fully socialist revolution.
Take IG Farben for example. The profits of this buisness increased more than threefold under the Four Year Plan. Hitler favoured big buisness over the workers in order to rearm.
BasilFawlty4444 7 months ago
@Dalek1230 What you must remember is that being anti-capitalist is not the same as being socialist. Hitler's party may have been called the National Socialists, but it can be more closely defined without the latter word; it was a nationalist party, committed only to rearming Germany and restoring German pride.
I doubt if there is a single historian that thinks Hitler was a true socialist. The number things he did that screwed over the workers of Germany in favour of rearmament...
BasilFawlty4444 7 months ago
@BasilFawlty4444 I think old "Dalek1230" knows he is being obtuse but he obviously likes to try and wind people up. I doubt he like his name sake is open to reason and knowledge but acts simply on his internal programming. Certainly I suspect from what you write your knowledge of history goes deeper than simply having the ability to watch Dr Who.
davijeph 7 months ago
@davijeph At least i am not obsessed by health care like you. Really get a life :) Get it in your mind Government = Wastage. Socialists never understand this and thus socialists get nowhere. You never understand why, the reason - Its my money. People hate the idea of their money being spent my SOMEONE ELSE They never will :) This is not Stalins Russia , its a free world. i Will pay for the services i use. The NHS is a mess over hear, thats why we have so many private health firms too :)
Dalek1230 7 months ago
@Dalek1230 I don't think I'm obsessed by anything but I suppose obsession is a type of insanity and the point about being insane is you never know you are. From the way you write I suspect i'm talking too a sociopath. Does lacking empathy and a disregard for the well being of others strike the bell? "I Will pay for the services I use," you certainly will along with all everything else the Government tells you too pay for if you don't like then emigrate too Somalia they don't pay taxes their.
davijeph 7 months ago
@davijeph Nope I tell the government what to do, its called democracy :) Not the other way around. Thats why everyone hates big government / socialism/ your warped way of thinking . I am a free man and i do as i wish. This is the embodiment of conservative thought and why maggie thatcher was so damn popular :)
Dalek1230 7 months ago
@Dalek1230 Well if you believe in democracy then we have something in common. If you believe in democracy then you believe in what democracy stands for. You must except the rights and responsibilities that living in a democratic capitalist liberal socialist society brings too each member. Mrs Thatcher did many things good and bad whilst in office remember the NHS is safe in our hands. I'm surprised you admire Thatcher so much given one of her lasting legacies was centralisation of power .
davijeph 7 months ago
@Dalek1230 Where's your evidence that everyone" hates big government./socialism."? Can you explain your obvious indifference and lack of empathy towards the millions of innocents dying from disease and starvation
despite availability of ample technology and resources which are not provided simply because there is no profit in it for the priveleged elite you support. Is it a question of putting your head in the sand on such issues or, more likely, a case of "fuck you Jack, I'm all right?
golsno147 6 months ago
@golsno147 That right there is a textbook definition of charity, nothing wrong with that but it shouldn't be dictated to people in the way Benn demands.
Just imagine how much the charitable sector would benefit if government was not confiscating such vast sums of wealth from the productive part of the economy and wasting it on such frivolous things...
Most experts agree the industrial revolution wouldn't have happened if we had the same level of state control in the 19th century as we do today.
basch2020 6 months ago
@basch2020 I fail to see where Benn is "dictating to people or making demands" in this video? He only refers to the disillusionment, fear apathy and hopelessness of voters having been brainwashed from cradle to the grave by powerful media support of a priveleged elite ( not Government) who effectively control wealth. distribution.
"Confiscation" and "waste on frivolous things" as opinions which are controversial and debatable but I don't believe any economist has proved to be an "expert"
golsno147 6 months ago
@BasilFawlty4444 well your talking to one. He built roads and hiked taxs spent money. more money.
Let me just rip up your argument with a quote from the man.
"We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions."
Dalek1230 7 months ago
@Dalek1230 Look mate, what Hitler said and what Hitler did were two different things. You may also know that he said that Europe was Germany's Lebensraum. Look where that got him.
He also promised that the Jews would be relocated to Siberia or Madagascar, but look what happened in reality.
What Hitler said was never reliable. I will find you some quotes from historians.
Btw, I concluded in my exam (2wks ago) that Hitler was never committed to workers rights. Why did he abolish the trade unions?
BasilFawlty4444 7 months ago
@BasilFawlty4444 TOLD YOU YOU WOULD !!!
really?
and everyone knows when jesus said " love thy neighbor as thyself" he really meant love no one
according to you of course?? no human on earth could make sense of what you just put.
and sir
Hitler always balmed the jews !
in
Mien Kemf he blames them for the loss of the first world war.
Dalek1230 7 months ago
@Dalek1230 Hitler was a politician, as well as an evil man. I don't think we can compare Jesus to Hitler.
The suriving diaries and records of the time indicate that Hitler's decision to abolish the trade unions was a move to get paly with big buisness for rearmament.
Indeed, working hours increased significantly, and conditions and pay decreased. Absenteeism tripled during the 4 year plan, and on several occasions, workers were arrested for damaging the equipment in protest against oppression.
BasilFawlty4444 7 months ago
@Dalek1230 I think that we can safely say, therefore, that Hitler didn't give a shit about the workers, their rights, their pay, their conditions, their family lives.
From the start of the 4 Year Plan, their first and only priority was to rearm and achieve autarky. The workers were nothing but a means by which this was done.
BasilFawlty4444 7 months ago
@Dalek1230 Infact, none of the people you listed there were true socialists, and not at all like the moderate socialism that we have in this country. When I think of British socialism, I think of well-meaning men like Attlee, Bevan or (more recently) Kinnock. And of these, Attlee and Bevan are remembered most for the NHS. Suffice to say, I think socialism has a pretty positive history in this country, especially in comparison to other countries' definitions.
Trust me, I'm a history student :)
BasilFawlty4444 7 months ago
most legitimate statement about world affairs anywhere
supermorshu 9 months ago 2
About his comment on debt~In the Bible it states "the borrower is servant to the lender" and our economic system as hard as it may be for some to grok~is debt based in that the money begins or is created out of nothing by banks as debt. Our money supply consists of our and other peoples debts. If we could get out debt as a society there would be no money. Its a trick of numbers and its captured the whole world.
summondadrummin 9 months ago
If people were "educated, healthy and confident they would ~get out of control"
Well I guess we know what to do then.
summondadrummin 9 months ago
35 people are demoralized and frightened.
yeowlsing 9 months ago
I think Tony made a bit of an error there, the top 1% of the world's population owns roughly 40% of the worlds wealth.
Good stuff though. Never one to fear speaking out about issues. I admire this guy hugely for all the times he's stood up to the news networks on-air, takes courage and brains.
mattfryy 10 months ago
The rich are rich because they pay no taxes. If they paid taxes they would not be rich. If they worked they would not need priests, politicians and armies to defend their wealth and power. No, the do nothing capitalist class hold power for the same reason the aristocracy held power before the French Revolution and the Communist Party held power during the long reign of the Soviet Union---they have great PR and a monopoly on power.
perdondaris 10 months ago
in the US don't only 5% of the population own 90% of the wealth?shouldn't they be paying 90% of the yearly US budget ?
davijeph 10 months ago
If I may, approximately 55% of the all government's spending goes to social security, welfare, and medicare/medicaid. Who says the poor aren't being provided for? The top 50% Americans in terms of income pay 97% of all of the income tax. We do need to redistribute wealth in America, the poor do need our help, but it should be through charities, and people willingly giving up their money, not by the government using the threat of jail to coerce you to hand over your money.
runryrorun 10 months ago
@runryrorun Well said. But unfortunately you made a logical argument and logic has no place when debating Tony Benn fanboys.
QRF11B 10 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Sicko is nothing but a movie for a stupid audience. The fact that Moore could shame us Americans into thinking that by going to a Cuban Communist Potemkin village and extolling the virtues of Socialism with this farce propaganda movie is preposterous. The fact of the matter is that Cuba is a Fascist country and a one part police state. What we Americans have is far far better than the average $20 a month wage. Only the idiot Democrats could be duped by this two bit Communist, Michael Moore.
StefanZ17 10 months ago
@StefanZ17 I seriously doubt you have ever met a real communist.
sonofcy 10 months ago
@sonofcy Well said. Stefan obviously doesn't know what a real Communist is. Michael Moore is very far from Communist.
leizuoer 10 months ago 2
@StefanZ17 I also doubt you've ever been to Cuba. I talked to many people on the streets and despite the low living wages, the cost of living is extremely low, and the people are very satisfied with their lives. Imagine if the USA actually stopped their illegal trade embargo and the Cuban people were allowed 'Freedom' and 'Free trade' of state-capitalism, their lives would probably be worse and many people would be exploited. And your interpretation of Communism/Socialism is laughable. Fool.
mrdanthguitarman 9 months ago
@mrdanthguitarman
I don't have to go to Cuba to drink the cool-aid. There are millions of Cuban Americans that reside in this country and live in prosperity to a degree that is higher than the average American. Do you think they want to return to $20/month? NOT! And by who's law is our trade embargo with that Fascist backwater deemed illegal? No matter how you and the left Potemkinize Cuba with BS, there are still people fleeing that Communist crap hole to this very day.
StefanZ17 9 months ago
@StefanZ17 Lets be clear about this! The only reason people in Cuba earn so little is because the USA and their bullying allies will not trade with communist nations because they don't like it. Like Tony says above, if poor people felt confident enough to vote we would all have a full and proper democratic revolution which is what the bullying western allies are really scared of. They talk about choice as long as it isn't against what they want!
gobton 9 months ago
@StefanZ17 they look for other means of support. unemployment is a problem everywhere you know
supermorshu 9 months ago
@mrdanthguitarman The people in Cuba talk about the blockade. They know whose fault it is if things are tough, and even after 50 years the US don't seem to be getting it: the embargo isn't working.
Even under all that pressure, they people there get top-notch free healthcare. Freedom of speech? I spoke to taxi drivers in Havana who were as outspoken about politics as anywhere in the world. Some liked Castro, some were critical, but all resented the US first attacking, then blockading them.
freddo27 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Sicko is nothing but a movie for a stupid audience. The fact that Moore could shame us Americans into thinking that by going to a Cuban Communist Potemkin village and extolling the virtues of Socialism with this farce propaganda movie is preposterous. The fact of the matter is that Cuba is a Fascist country and a one part police state. What we Americans have is far far better than the average $20 a month wage. Only the idiot Democrats could be duped by this two bit Communist, Michael Moore.
StefanZ17 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
A British Ron Paul haha
MrJH1991 11 months ago
Oh how I love Tony Benn.
Karateworm 11 months ago
Comment removed
LaynezWorld 11 months ago
@LaynezWorld we don’t have a solely private health care system! plus, in our model the private companies are part of the problem. as they are everywhere.
perliva 11 months ago
Comment removed
LaynezWorld 11 months ago
this guy has the coolest voice on earth
Beauk13 11 months ago 2
Respect to Tony Benn
6KiiDZ 1 year ago
" Everything should be voluntary" does that include banking?What a fool.
davijeph 1 year ago
Wow, what a fool. Everything should be voluntary, the exact OPPOSITE of State Socialism.
qwertypoiu4321 1 year ago
One Word "Zeitgeist"
xCROMAGx 1 year ago 11
David icke.
eggheadAKAspensley 1 year ago
I am a med student in the UK and listening to this man gave me goosebumps.
May money and healthcare be forever divorced.
aspirezakura 1 year ago 45
@aspirezakura Stick to medicine, leave the economics of it to economists.
djsmurfie 1 year ago
@aspirezakura they have a pretty strong marriage right now...
klasomentas 8 months ago
@aspirezakura Just dont vote rich when you get rich ,vote for the best of the masses, not your own financial intrests.
DYSW 7 months ago