@Abbadon380 They can't because Islam is based on Strict Principles of 7th Century Teachings that Muslims believe they shouldn't change a word.. This is the leading problem behind the clash of Modern Civilization of the whole free world and Islamic Dark age Civilization..
BS! Muhammad violent SINFUL dead Murderer! Islam/Quran is corrupt! Jesus/Healed/Blessed/Peace/Salvation/GOD! All MUSLIMS who converted to Christianity ARE HAPPY & FREE OF ABUSE & MISERY Islam leaders are killing you! Christians LOVE YOU! PLEASE accept JESUS CHRIST as your SAVIOR John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! REBEL & ACCEPT JESUS! Be FREE of ISLAM LIES Visit cbn.com /radio
Give me an Islamist any day! see my blog entry and the apologists for Islamism on this panel discussion: maryamnamazie.blogspot.com/2011/10/judge-islamisms-apologists-for.html
Western secularism took its values largely from jewish-christian religion and not it calls them purely secular which is ridiculous to begin with !
When new values come, secular humanists and others are defensive and arguinf the wrong premise that their secularism is not affected by religion at all
People in secularism arent equal, this is a myth, as I stated, mosques cant make call tp prayer while churches can etc. this is not equality by default, I dont know how can I put it more clearly
@penkallli - Secular just means the separation of church and state, nothing to do with the values.....there's no such thing as secular values... I know for a fact church bells are not allowed in Muslim countries, as is propagating any religion except Islam....I think if you cannot make this very simple distinction then you are being willfully ignorant.
The argument that the adhan is different from church bells is irrelevant !
The fact is 1 is allowed, the other not, thats not equality, Im not arguing muslim countries besides ur wrong bells are allowed in many of the countries
-Even if u dont take all aspects the point remains, u cant say secular about things incorporated from religion
Values such as equality before the law is religiously based, good and evil etc
Secularism doesnt provide euqality that we want, but what majority want
@penkallli - But they are by their very nature different....And yes secular would mean exactly that! Whatever the majority deems appropriate. In countries where everyone gets up to pray at 5:30, fair enough...In the UK you would be annoying 97% of the population. Use your common sense...It's the same with covered faces in public places. You have the RIGHT to wear what you want. You can wear a bucket on your head if it makes you happy, just don't go into a bank with it on.
Its different the adhan and the bells its besides the point, muslims DONT HAVE THE RIGHT to do it, christians HAVE THE RIGHT to do it, CAN and CANT, majority can do what it wants including inequality !
Tolerance is that, even if it annoys u, they have the right to do it !
Ur argument of majority doesnt annul the fact that one party have the right the other does not !
@penkallli - So equality in your mind is to let a minority decide law for the majority?....Your point holds no water. ALSO - There is no Christian call to prayer! If there was the millions of non-Christians would complain...There is no compulsory Christian anything! You could quite easily spend your whole life here and never encounter any Christian trappings, beyond the occasional mention of God in a very loose sense.
@penkallli - Well, after spending ten years in the Mid East, I saw little equality there....In fact I don't think I've encountered more racism, and in the cases of the Gulf countries, more inequality....The bridge between the rich and poor there is obscene, regardless what Islam says it should be..And if you have religious law effecting politics, education and science then you are doomed massively to fail...This is so obvious it barely needs mentioning.
This is not about middle east, this is about western secularism that loudly suggests that provides equality !
This is a lie !
Thas my point, why faint ignorance, muslims dont have the right to make the call to prayer cause the majority deems it annoying, while christians can make their call to prayers !
This is the tip of the iceberg, the more u dig into the new ideology of secularism the more Im amazed of the hypocrisy and lies of the secularists
@penkallli - NO Secularism provides freedom of religion....Not pandering to every whim of that religion. Christians also have a line they cannot cross....They have no say in politics, education or science, beyond stating their opinions....You keep saying "Christians can have their call to prayer" and I keep telling you they can't, or at least they don't....Common sense alone dictates you cannot disturb everyone for your own personal beliefs.
@penkallli - When I lived in Muslim countries I got up at 5 because I had no choice. I had to restrain from drinking water or eating during Ramadan, by law. I respected all the laws and customs of that land, whether I agreed with them or not...As was pretending I was a Christian rather then an atheist, so they'd consider me deluded rather than plain evil....Believe me I can see the benefits of secularism.
@penkallli With all due respect, it seems to me that most of the criticisms you launch at Secularism are in fact positives (or flat out incorrect). Secularism says nothing about prostitution. Secularism says one thing "Mixeth thou not religion and politics". This bears no relevance to prostitution whatsoever. I'm very happy that France prohibits its state representatives to display religious symbols. Especially, (but not exclusively) when these religious symbols are also symbols of sexism.
@penkallli Correct, what a women does with her body is none of the state's business. Therefore the state has no reason to ban prostitution. However, what a Women does with her body WHILE representing the State is the State's business.
As for hollydays, the state takes them as state hollydays, thats the problem, theyre clearly religious, u said not to mix state and religion, then we have religious hollydays as state secular hollydays
-Ur argument that muslims too can request free days is not the issue, the problem is the state took some religious hollydays and left some others, U said state and religion is seperated clearly not
@penkallli I'm having a hard time taking you seriously.
What is the problem with women wearing makeup?The reason why in North America, we have Christmas as a holiday is a historical and cultural one,as well as having to do with the majority. I'm fairly certain a secular society in a Muslim country would opt to maintain the cultural celebrations of the region as well. Please drop the 'I'm a victim" act. You have exactly the same rights I do, and that's how it needs to stay.
ur sexist argument just got debunked, thats why, makeup is weared to attract, hijab is not !
Why dont u ban beards at institutions, cause u have it too, this is the most stupid prejudiced thing ever done !
I dont have the same rights as the majority, in the same sentence u contradict urself, secular state has adopted religious hollydays and now it preaches to us muslims aboput secularism when we ask for the same thing.
When my sister can work the same as ur sister, then...
@penkallli You are very confused. Please research what sexism means. It is not worth any more of my time to explain things to you over and over again. Holiday no longer means "holy day" in the secular world, even though that is the origin of the word. Language evolves to suit the needs of a given society.
Your sister can work the same as mine, she just may not display any religious symbols while working as an agent of the government, just like my sister couldn't.
@penkallli All 3 of your 'problems' are not instances of equal rights. They are instances in which you are demanding SPECIAL rights for yourself. You are really not helping your case by using racist slurs by the way. Really doesn't make you look like a person who's opinion needs to be considered. You are a clown and I'd rather discuss Islam with sincere Muslims who wouldn't make other Muslims ashamed.
@penkallli I'm not exactly sure what you mean, you are allowed to work on Jewish and Christian holidays. Why wouldn't you be? Furthermore you are legally allowed to request days off for your own religious holidays.
Also I'm not sure I'm understanding correctly, but you seem to be saying that secularism cannot keep ideas if they come from a religious source? Or at least you might be saying that we are unfairly keeping too much from Christianity? Please clarify this so I may respond.
@penkallli - I've lived in much of the Mid East, when many women can't work, no other religions are talked about and I was woken 5:30 every morning as the call to prayer was mandatory....Would you expect better than this in a non-muslim country? At least you are free to practice your religion, unlike many Arab countries where anything representing un-Islamic ideals is illegal.
Im answering the secular divininty argument here, as if secularism is dicorced from religion and values and as if secularism gives all equal rights !!!
@penkallli - Well it's equal rights based on proportional representation. Muslims are about 3% of the population, but do still have the right to follow their religion unhindered. There is civil sharia law and mosques are built on tax payers money. ...The face scarf isn't banned in the UK...If the UK pandered to every Muslims whim, we'd be a Muslim country....Secularism is simply the freeing of religion from politics, not pleasing every belief system.
@penkallli - How is that a contradiction? That's how democracy works - or at least in theory. The majority rules...So do you think Muslims should have more rights in the UK - Say to have compulsory fasting, call to prayer or the banning of non-Muslim activities? What in your mind would be fair representation.
@penkallli -I fail to see how non-Muslims not recognizing Muslim holidays is inequality...If Muslims were barred from having them then yes...But they're not! In the UK, Muslims are equal under UK law.....I'd also argue that there are no religious holidays in the UK - simply pagan ones that the Christians latched on to, but that's a separate issue...Could name one Muslim country where pagan/christian holidays are recognized by the state?
-The church has the right to call to prayers, while masques cant ! This is not equality, by definition. I get majority rules mantra, but u cant have ur cake and eat it, call spade a spade
-The argument about hollydays was pointed to the person before u, he said secularism is state and religion is seperated, this is not the case when the state incorporates religious hollydays and all taxpayers pay for the festivities involved ! Again u cant have ur cake and eat it
@penkallli - I'm unaware of churches that call people to prayer. You may hear occasional bells, but you're not woken at 5 every morning by them...And I'm arguing the case that they're not religious festivals - even if they may have religious origin - Christmas and Easter of course being pagan holidays. They are celebrated as tradition now, at not on any level religious. The whole point of a secular society is you can practice you own religion quietly with no interference....CONT
@rogan71 - This doesn't include every aspect of of every tradition....If you think having an audible call to prayer 5 times a day is the same as church bells on a Sunday, then I respectfully disagree.....
Happy New Year, and to the muslims, good luck with your hatred against non-Islamic folk in 2012.
Myanleader 1 month ago 2
1 THING TO SAY WESTERNIZE ISLAM
Abbadon380 2 months ago
@Abbadon380 They can't because Islam is based on Strict Principles of 7th Century Teachings that Muslims believe they shouldn't change a word.. This is the leading problem behind the clash of Modern Civilization of the whole free world and Islamic Dark age Civilization..
forgottenmemories63 2 months ago
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BS! Muhammad violent SINFUL dead Murderer! Islam/Quran is corrupt! Jesus/Healed/Blessed/Peace/Salvation/GOD! All MUSLIMS who converted to Christianity ARE HAPPY & FREE OF ABUSE & MISERY Islam leaders are killing you! Christians LOVE YOU! PLEASE accept JESUS CHRIST as your SAVIOR John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! REBEL & ACCEPT JESUS! Be FREE of ISLAM LIES Visit cbn.com /radio
tigersforchrist 2 months ago
Maryam rules!
stojadinovicdushan 3 months ago
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Give me an Islamist any day! see my blog entry and the apologists for Islamism on this panel discussion: maryamnamazie.blogspot.com/2011/10/judge-islamisms-apologists-for.html
MaryamNamazie 4 months ago
Heres is why we dont have equal rights in secularist countries:
1. Muslim women cant work in state run institutions and others in reality, while nonmuslims women can even with wearing makeup
CAN-CANT, HAS THE RIGHT-DOEASNT HAVE THE RIGHT
2. Hollydays taken directly from religion by the state, which denies the muslims too, we ask for 2-3 hours on friday
DONT HAVE THE RIGHT-HAVE THE RIGHT
3. Christians can make their call to prayer, muslims cant
CAN-CANT
-majority ruling and annoyance arent argms
penkallli 4 months ago
Western secularism took its values largely from jewish-christian religion and not it calls them purely secular which is ridiculous to begin with !
When new values come, secular humanists and others are defensive and arguinf the wrong premise that their secularism is not affected by religion at all
People in secularism arent equal, this is a myth, as I stated, mosques cant make call tp prayer while churches can etc. this is not equality by default, I dont know how can I put it more clearly
penkallli 4 months ago
@penkallli - Secular just means the separation of church and state, nothing to do with the values.....there's no such thing as secular values... I know for a fact church bells are not allowed in Muslim countries, as is propagating any religion except Islam....I think if you cannot make this very simple distinction then you are being willfully ignorant.
rogan71 4 months ago
@rogan71
The argument that the adhan is different from church bells is irrelevant !
The fact is 1 is allowed, the other not, thats not equality, Im not arguing muslim countries besides ur wrong bells are allowed in many of the countries
-Even if u dont take all aspects the point remains, u cant say secular about things incorporated from religion
Values such as equality before the law is religiously based, good and evil etc
Secularism doesnt provide euqality that we want, but what majority want
penkallli 4 months ago
@penkallli - But they are by their very nature different....And yes secular would mean exactly that! Whatever the majority deems appropriate. In countries where everyone gets up to pray at 5:30, fair enough...In the UK you would be annoying 97% of the population. Use your common sense...It's the same with covered faces in public places. You have the RIGHT to wear what you want. You can wear a bucket on your head if it makes you happy, just don't go into a bank with it on.
rogan71 4 months ago
@rogan71
Its different the adhan and the bells its besides the point, muslims DONT HAVE THE RIGHT to do it, christians HAVE THE RIGHT to do it, CAN and CANT, majority can do what it wants including inequality !
Tolerance is that, even if it annoys u, they have the right to do it !
Ur argument of majority doesnt annul the fact that one party have the right the other does not !
Therefore not equal, how simple can it get
penkallli 4 months ago
@penkallli - So equality in your mind is to let a minority decide law for the majority?....Your point holds no water. ALSO - There is no Christian call to prayer! If there was the millions of non-Christians would complain...There is no compulsory Christian anything! You could quite easily spend your whole life here and never encounter any Christian trappings, beyond the occasional mention of God in a very loose sense.
rogan71 4 months ago 2
@penkallli - Well, after spending ten years in the Mid East, I saw little equality there....In fact I don't think I've encountered more racism, and in the cases of the Gulf countries, more inequality....The bridge between the rich and poor there is obscene, regardless what Islam says it should be..And if you have religious law effecting politics, education and science then you are doomed massively to fail...This is so obvious it barely needs mentioning.
rogan71 4 months ago
@rogan71
This is not about middle east, this is about western secularism that loudly suggests that provides equality !
This is a lie !
Thas my point, why faint ignorance, muslims dont have the right to make the call to prayer cause the majority deems it annoying, while christians can make their call to prayers !
This is the tip of the iceberg, the more u dig into the new ideology of secularism the more Im amazed of the hypocrisy and lies of the secularists
penkallli 4 months ago
@penkallli - NO Secularism provides freedom of religion....Not pandering to every whim of that religion. Christians also have a line they cannot cross....They have no say in politics, education or science, beyond stating their opinions....You keep saying "Christians can have their call to prayer" and I keep telling you they can't, or at least they don't....Common sense alone dictates you cannot disturb everyone for your own personal beliefs.
rogan71 4 months ago
@penkallli - When I lived in Muslim countries I got up at 5 because I had no choice. I had to restrain from drinking water or eating during Ramadan, by law. I respected all the laws and customs of that land, whether I agreed with them or not...As was pretending I was a Christian rather then an atheist, so they'd consider me deluded rather than plain evil....Believe me I can see the benefits of secularism.
rogan71 4 months ago 2
islamism is legitimate in secularism as iks communism !
Islam oppresses prostitution and other things, secularism does the same, in what it considers anti constiutional actions and rhetoric.
Can a muslim woman with hijab work in state institutions in France ? NO
Can we make the call to prayer in Europe? NO
I can go on and on...
Were not equal in secularism, Sunday is christian holiday not secualr holiday
penkallli 4 months ago
@penkallli With all due respect, it seems to me that most of the criticisms you launch at Secularism are in fact positives (or flat out incorrect). Secularism says nothing about prostitution. Secularism says one thing "Mixeth thou not religion and politics". This bears no relevance to prostitution whatsoever. I'm very happy that France prohibits its state representatives to display religious symbols. Especially, (but not exclusively) when these religious symbols are also symbols of sexism.
MagicofAramis 4 months ago 2
@MagicofAramis
Whats the scirt and make up ? Were sexist creatures and display it daily
France bans hijab from schools, what people wear is not their busines not mixing religion and politics
Wearing hijab doesnt mean ull mix islamic law with politics if ur in a state instiution, thats the most stupid thing and prejudice secularists make !
Secularism allows prostitution, thats more than saying nothing
Secularism is not judging by religious law not what one wears while judging !
penkallli 4 months ago
@penkallli Correct, what a women does with her body is none of the state's business. Therefore the state has no reason to ban prostitution. However, what a Women does with her body WHILE representing the State is the State's business.
MagicofAramis 4 months ago
@MagicofAramis
The state allows makeup on women, why is that ?
This is ur sexist argument
As for hollydays, the state takes them as state hollydays, thats the problem, theyre clearly religious, u said not to mix state and religion, then we have religious hollydays as state secular hollydays
-Ur argument that muslims too can request free days is not the issue, the problem is the state took some religious hollydays and left some others, U said state and religion is seperated clearly not
penkallli 4 months ago
@penkallli I'm having a hard time taking you seriously.
What is the problem with women wearing makeup?The reason why in North America, we have Christmas as a holiday is a historical and cultural one,as well as having to do with the majority. I'm fairly certain a secular society in a Muslim country would opt to maintain the cultural celebrations of the region as well. Please drop the 'I'm a victim" act. You have exactly the same rights I do, and that's how it needs to stay.
MagicofAramis 4 months ago 2
@MagicofAramis
ur sexist argument just got debunked, thats why, makeup is weared to attract, hijab is not !
Why dont u ban beards at institutions, cause u have it too, this is the most stupid prejudiced thing ever done !
I dont have the same rights as the majority, in the same sentence u contradict urself, secular state has adopted religious hollydays and now it preaches to us muslims aboput secularism when we ask for the same thing.
When my sister can work the same as ur sister, then...
penkallli 4 months ago
@penkallli
typo " is worn"
penkallli 4 months ago
@penkallli You are very confused. Please research what sexism means. It is not worth any more of my time to explain things to you over and over again. Holiday no longer means "holy day" in the secular world, even though that is the origin of the word. Language evolves to suit the needs of a given society.
Your sister can work the same as mine, she just may not display any religious symbols while working as an agent of the government, just like my sister couldn't.
MagicofAramis 4 months ago 3
@MagicofAramis
Thanx for proving my point again
Ur sister can work, my sister cant, (niggers could do it with if's too, but Im not interested)
Can we have free hours on friday from work -NO
Can we make our call to prayer - NO
to say we have equal rights, is ridiculous
Im out..
penkallli 4 months ago
@penkallli All 3 of your 'problems' are not instances of equal rights. They are instances in which you are demanding SPECIAL rights for yourself. You are really not helping your case by using racist slurs by the way. Really doesn't make you look like a person who's opinion needs to be considered. You are a clown and I'd rather discuss Islam with sincere Muslims who wouldn't make other Muslims ashamed.
MagicofAramis 4 months ago 3
@MagicofAramis
Furthermore u cant take christian jewish holidays - holly days !! as sunday and sabath- as secular state laws and then preach me secularism ! hehe
Not to mention all men are equal before the law mantra when ur thinkers such as Locke took it from christianity etc
U cant steal from 1 religion and then exclude others as if ur secular when its borrowed itself..
penkallli 4 months ago
@penkallli I'm not exactly sure what you mean, you are allowed to work on Jewish and Christian holidays. Why wouldn't you be? Furthermore you are legally allowed to request days off for your own religious holidays.
Also I'm not sure I'm understanding correctly, but you seem to be saying that secularism cannot keep ideas if they come from a religious source? Or at least you might be saying that we are unfairly keeping too much from Christianity? Please clarify this so I may respond.
MagicofAramis 4 months ago
@penkallli - I've lived in much of the Mid East, when many women can't work, no other religions are talked about and I was woken 5:30 every morning as the call to prayer was mandatory....Would you expect better than this in a non-muslim country? At least you are free to practice your religion, unlike many Arab countries where anything representing un-Islamic ideals is illegal.
rogan71 4 months ago
@rogan71
Im answering the secular divininty argument here, as if secularism is dicorced from religion and values and as if secularism gives all equal rights !!!
This is a myth, thats my argument
penkallli 4 months ago
@penkallli - Well it's equal rights based on proportional representation. Muslims are about 3% of the population, but do still have the right to follow their religion unhindered. There is civil sharia law and mosques are built on tax payers money. ...The face scarf isn't banned in the UK...If the UK pandered to every Muslims whim, we'd be a Muslim country....Secularism is simply the freeing of religion from politics, not pleasing every belief system.
rogan71 4 months ago
@rogan71
"equal rights based on proportional representation"
-Contradiction; this is what Im talking about
penkallli 4 months ago
@penkallli - How is that a contradiction? That's how democracy works - or at least in theory. The majority rules...So do you think Muslims should have more rights in the UK - Say to have compulsory fasting, call to prayer or the banning of non-Muslim activities? What in your mind would be fair representation.
rogan71 4 months ago
@rogan71
Majority rules but it supppose to have equal rights, if I cant make a call to prayer but the church has, thats not equality by definition
If christian/pagan hollydays are imported by the state where all taxpayers contribute for the fistivities while muslim hollydays arent granted that
And many other things
penkallli 4 months ago
@penkallli -I fail to see how non-Muslims not recognizing Muslim holidays is inequality...If Muslims were barred from having them then yes...But they're not! In the UK, Muslims are equal under UK law.....I'd also argue that there are no religious holidays in the UK - simply pagan ones that the Christians latched on to, but that's a separate issue...Could name one Muslim country where pagan/christian holidays are recognized by the state?
rogan71 4 months ago
@rogan71
-The church has the right to call to prayers, while masques cant ! This is not equality, by definition. I get majority rules mantra, but u cant have ur cake and eat it, call spade a spade
-The argument about hollydays was pointed to the person before u, he said secularism is state and religion is seperated, this is not the case when the state incorporates religious hollydays and all taxpayers pay for the festivities involved ! Again u cant have ur cake and eat it
penkallli 4 months ago
@penkallli - I'm unaware of churches that call people to prayer. You may hear occasional bells, but you're not woken at 5 every morning by them...And I'm arguing the case that they're not religious festivals - even if they may have religious origin - Christmas and Easter of course being pagan holidays. They are celebrated as tradition now, at not on any level religious. The whole point of a secular society is you can practice you own religion quietly with no interference....CONT
rogan71 4 months ago
@rogan71 - This doesn't include every aspect of of every tradition....If you think having an audible call to prayer 5 times a day is the same as church bells on a Sunday, then I respectfully disagree.....
rogan71 4 months ago 2
go islam!
MisnahWolstenholme 4 months ago
Such a shame Christopher Hitchens wasn't on the panel.
stehay 4 months ago
are all the speakers politically correct idiots?
Forkroute 4 months ago
2%-3% growing how fast? And this woman is reminding us about Nazis in order to shut us up about Islam and the dangers of a mulch-cultural societies?
Forkroute 4 months ago
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@Forkroute The muslims ARE the nazis.
Drgamedood 4 months ago
Who are these appeasing idiots? "all religious are equally bad". bullshit.
Forkroute 4 months ago
Thank you.
Forkroute 4 months ago 5
Thanks for the fixed re-upload.
KaroKoenich 4 months ago 3
Great, audio fixed. Thanks for posting.
541515141741952 4 months ago 3