For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
My biggest problem with Evangelical Christianity is that they believe a Buddhist monk who runs a children's charity will burn in hell, but a convicted rapist and murderer who repents and finds Jesus in prison will be saved.
@FlawdaFootball As an Evangelical Christian, I believe we all are deserving of hell. The good news is that Jesus Christ took upon himself the penalty of hell for everyone who would repent of their sins and put their trust in Him. No catch. Just follow Him. That's pretty good news. The problem you have I think gets turned upside down when you view someone's "works" or "goodness" in light of a perfect God. We all look really messed up. We all look like rapists and murderers.
Gandhi once said "I would be a Chrisitian, if it weren't for Christians"...as a Christian, I understood the essence of this statement. Our abrasively reactionary response to something as simple as "Love Wins" indicates to me just how much more we need to evolve in Christ-consciousness.
As a Christian and a universalist but not in a transcendental way but in a biblical way. I am quite certain that the very idea of a God who would send his children to eternal torment is a god of our making NOT the true God. I wonder if we spend far too much time thinking about the next world while neglecting this one. Peace!
@trenttuckerjv27 I Lewis. I do believe however that Jesus seemed far more interested in living our lives in the "now' and not spending our lives dreaming about heaven. when the rich young ruler came to Him and asked what he should do to be saved,Jesus didn't say that he must "accept me as lord and personal saviour"...he told him what to DO now, which was to deal with his mixed up priorities. Lets let tomorrow take care of itself and do what he would have us to be doing today.
Jesus is the only way. But why does that have to mean that only Christians get to heaven? I think Bell does not believe in "hell" as most believe it, but that does not make Bell wrong, he may be correct.
I don't agree with everything Rob Bell says but to call him a universalist is insulting to him, to say he doesnt believe in hell is ignorant, and to say that he believes you can go to heaven by trusting in another way other than Jesus is idiodic, he hasn't made any of those statements. You can bash someone but at least do it correctly. As Jesus said if you make a judgement, make a righteous one.
@TheRickyMaye Wow, I kinda shocked. I don't think that God sent his son as an option. He IS the ONLY way. As a preacher, Bell needs to walk that line and not make it fuzzy. I've enjoyed Nooma and found them inspiring, but he does get vague with this video. It's almost as if he's implying that God loves us so much that rejecting Christ will still get you in Heaven's gate. That's FALSE, no matter who says it.
@Bullitt4 I don't see Jesus as an option to heaven, and from every interview and book of Rob Bell's He makes it clear that Jesus is the only way. However What bell is implying is that Ghandi never rejected christ, We know ghandi loved the teaching of christ and believed him to be the son of God, yes he also believed in other posibilities of spiritual wisdom, not eternal destinations or hopes but in wisdom, in the same way Paul quotes Greek deitys and pagan gods through out the new testement.
TRUE religion is NOT man reaching up to God (as demonstrated through all the FALSE religions of the world),----rather TRUE RELIGION is GOD reaching down to man and man ACCEPTING God's plan of Salvation. And the bible says it is through His Son Jesus Christ.
Don't drink the cool aid! You're NOT smarter than God Mr. Bell----so, don't attempt to rewrite the bible and mislead others with your flattering deceptive words by preaching ANOTHER FALSE gospel.
Mr. Bell, I don't know how many people are actually going to hell---whether it's millions or billions or what, but I DO KNOW that Jesus said more people are going to hell than are going to heaven:....
"Enter in at the narrow gate for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and MANY there be which go in thereat. Because strait is the gate and narrow is the way which leades unto life, and FEW there be that find it." Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:13,14)
I don't understand how people can say Rob needs to read the bible and questions salvation. Yes he is a pastor and yes he is an international speaker and yes he doesn't know everything, but who does? Who knows everything? Who knows who goes to Heaven and Hell? I have the answer to that, no one but God. So just because Rob is a pastor, that doesn't mean he has to understand and know everything about the christian faith.
I don't think anyone here is denying that Jesus is the only way to the father, thanks for the reminder but for me and many others that still holds true.
I don't think anyone here is denying that Jesus is the only way to the father, thanks for the reminder but we haven't forgotten, nor do we think it's truth is diminished.
Christ(now risen) died on the cross to propitiate the wrath of God.He bore the sin of his people,though he himself is sinless. So the gospel is indeed about God saving us from himself, out of his great love and mercy, its about God saving us from having to face his JUST wrath against our sin - IF we turn to Christ in true repentance and faith.And Christ is not some 3rd party - he IS God, the eternal Son. Bell's rhetorical questions reveal he does not understand the gospel - he's not even close.
Reality check, Rob. God and Jesus are the same person. He is God Man. Kenosis Theory?? Yep. Oh, another thing; read the Bible. It's immutable, it doesn't change so please don't be so dogmatic... that's all.
Reality check, Rob. God and Jesus are the same person. He is God Man. Kenosis Theory?? Yep. Oh, another thing; read the Bible. It's immutable, it doesn't change so please don't be so dogmatic... that's all.
Read Acts 10. If Cornelius was a good man, why did he need Peter to go share the news about Jesus with him? If Gentiles could be saved apart from Jesus, why mention him at all? Why be persecuted for the name of Jesus if it doesn't really matter? Well, it does matter.
I'm fairly certain God doesn't "send" anyone to hell, for He desires all men to come to salvation. Those who are in hell choose it, either through being deceived by the enemy or from their own choice.
@dtdowntown67 Don't be confused by what others are saying about Bell. Based on your post concerning the 3 things - Rob's teachings would be in alignment with your post. Rob is asking questions in this video. Most of his critics are reading into his questions just like they did in his book Velvet Elvis. Listen to szome of Rob's podcast he teaches the scripures at lenght.
@SouthernSage I was not referring to Bell when I posted that, I was writing to a commentor. Obviously if Rob does not believe in hell then his views don't match one of my three criteria, which is "if you believe in Jesus's teachings." No one spoke more about hell in the Bible than Jesus.
@griffintgulledge Thanks for your comment. I appreciate your calling it an educated guess - Should Christians attack others based on educated guesses? I don't imply that you have attacked but I believe others have. Does it make me outside of Christianty if I do not know who may or may not go to hell? What does it mean to say that God is in all things? Could I be a sheep in wolves clothes?
@emhauburn I think that you may have your religion's confused. The Buddha did not claim to be a God. I also believe that most people would think of the Hindu religion when it comes to many Gods... excluding non-Christians who may be confused by the Trinity. You may find the book the parallel sayings of Jesus & Buddha interesting. WDE?
@dtdowntown67 uh WRONG. Rob Bell wasn't saying "I don't know the answers". He was saying, "these are the questions that I will be talking about in my book" This is a preview for his book, dude.
@swimweeman25 Well maybe I jumped too a bit of a conclusion, but it DID seem like he was implying that Jesus is not the only way to salvation and hell does not exist. If that is the case, then he does not have the biblical evidence to support that. It looks like we will just have to wait and see.
@dtdowntown67 false gospels and universalism are great fun... aside from the fact he DESTROYS the message of the gospel, people really love his positive message of love
@urbansamurai79 Ya dude I feel you. To be honest I don't get angry at atheists very often because at least they are honest about their beliefs, but universalist Christians and Unitarians just get to me. You have to love them but it's difficult because they are spreading a watered down gospel and making people think they could do whatever they want and still get into heaven.
@dtdowntown67 To me they're not preaching a watered down gospel (though I know what you mean). To me their preaching a false gospel. Yes we need to love people, but Paul also said if anyone comes preaching another gospel let him be accursed or eternally damned; let him burn in judgment forever. I think there's more to it obviously, like Rob could repent of his heresy, etc. But when someone is corrupting, perverting, mutilating, etc. the gospel of Christ and leading others astray willfully...
@dtdowntown67 Haha sorry... you're right of course. I came out of a background that I would say did not have a solid foundation of the gospel message at all. I've recently started to understand the gospel after about 1 1/2 of searching, so I'm fairly ardent about what I've discovered. Still working on a more balanced approach :)
@dtdowntown67 I agree 100%. It seems (and I like Bell) that he and others are using less scripture in preaching and more reasoning. That's dangerous. Man is fallible and can't figure God out. We are instructed to "trust in the Lord with all our hearts and lean not unto our own understanding" (Proverbs 3:5). This is crucial. Trust in Him alone, not in what we deem as sensible or correct. God sets the standards, we need to simply obey them.
@Bullitt4 Amen brother. As Christians we need to check our opinions and biases at the door. It seems like Bell is saying "I don't like what Scripture says here, so I am just going to ignore/alter it to fit what I want it to say. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what WE think, it matters what GOD thinks.
They would see error in his teachings when comparing it to the teachings of the Bible. That's not to say that there are some teachings that are similar or aren't good. However, those that conflict with biblical teaching would have to be rejected by someone who claims to know Jesus Christ and follow him. As one who subscribes to a completely biblical, Christian doctrine, (which I believe Rob Bell has abandoned) you acknowledge that there is consequence for your sin: hell.
As a believer in Jesus, you come to understand that you cannot accept the teachings of Buddhism that has many gods and godesses. This is not to say that the Buddhist is unable to come to God and receive forgiveness for sins. But as a Christian the saying goes, "the old is gone, the new is come" ---so that individual would leave their Buddhist ways. I would even venture to say that their former value for the Buddha's teachings would be changed.
You do not empower God by saying he speaks through other gods and religions, you belittle him into something you want, restrict him to your own desires rather than that which he claims to be. If you claim to be Hindu with a Christian God that is ok with that, then the God you worship and the God I worship are not the same. If you truly "believe" this God, you will not 'want' to be Hindu, your striving will be for the YHWH God. That's all I have to say on the subject.
Why is it that some people seem to think they know beyond any doubt what was in Gandhi's heart as he took his last breathe? How could one be so bold to say that Gandhi is in Hell? Regardless of your view of the Bible, Dogma, or Doctrine - How do you know if Gandhi agreed or disagreed with you?
@SouthernSage Call it an educated guess. No one outside of Christianity would ever contend that Gandhi was a Christian. Only inclusvists, pluralists, universalists etc would attempt it.
Also, my apologies for multiple posts, but the reason Gandhi then is not in heaven, is b/c he did not believe this. He saw Jesus as a good moral teacher, and he is far from just that. That's not what Christ claimed to be.
@griffintgulledge Talking about the passage of the Rich young ruler and eternal life, Gandhi said, "May you and I treasure them and enforce them in our daily life." He also has some nice quotes of sin, and Living a righteous life in Jesus.
@TheRickyMaye How about this: YHWH God is the one true holy, righteous God. He will not tolerate sin but no one is righteous. No one then, can get to God without another hope outside ourselves. Thus Christ came and died, taking away the sin and giving his righteousness to those who would believe in him as the holy Son of God, the Messiah as the completion of the atoning sacrifice foreshadowed in Lev. 16. He then rose again and ascended to the throne.
@griffintgulledge I understand the gospel, my question is where is the line drawn? What if i am a Buddhist, whom believes Jesus is the Son of God, died for my sins, and practice what Jesus taught, just don't attend church, and practice some hindu practices and value the teachings of the Buddha.
@TheRickyMaye you have contradiction in the scenario... one can't practice what Jesus taught, while not attending church (Jesus who is fully God inspired not just the red letters but every book of the Bible through the Holy Spirit) practicing hinduism and budhism directly contradicts what Jesus taught (monotheism). The root of it all is that in Christianity Jesus Christ paid for all of my sins and every other religion one needs to be work-righteous instead of relying on the work of Christ.
@TheRickyMaye Hey there, I saw your question. In the New Testament, James 2:19: says, "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder." Because the New Testament recognizes that Jesus is the Son of God, the verse is saying that you can simply acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God (and that's it) and still be sent to hell. As one who truly believes in and accepts Christ, the Holy Spirit comes to you and helps make you aware of things that are against God.
@TheRickyMaye If you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, died for your sins, and practice what Jesus taught, then you are a Christian. And there is nothing wrong with valuing the teachings of Buddha, but that does not make you Buddhist. But, if you truly do those 3 things that you listed, then you are a Christian.
@TheRickyMaye I think that the line would be drawn there, if not before there; practicing the teachings of Buddha and such defeats the purpose of following the one true King. At least in my opinion.
@sjucrev It's not a mountain. It's a pit, and there's only one way out. Divine assistance. This isn't Greek mythology, and God's not on top of a mountain. This is the one true God and we can not get to him so he had to come to us for. Those who do not believe will not be saved.
@griffintgulledge that is the vauge spirituality that confuses so many and doesn't present us with answers that we need. Hense the defense when questions are brought up. So questions begin to arise, What does it mean to believe? Is it simply knowing, trusting? Then why would Ghandi not be in heaven? However just as somebody said below, I just phrase my way, this is our eternal destiny I think questions are warrented, Jesus didn't shy away, nor did he despise questions.
first of all Jesus never promised ANYONE that when they die they go to heaven. If anything, the biblical evidence points to the grave [Sheol, Hell] as the final destination. second, if Universalism is true...what is the point of being a Christian?
Unfortunately, his publisher has clearly stated that this is a book in which Bell argues, "a loving God would never sentence human souls to eternal suffering". That is an argument for universalism. So either Bell is guilty of allowing a publisher to twist his words and purpose, or he is, indeed, a universalist. His questions are clearly meant to question what that person believes in order to disprove it, not to promote questioning a belief to have a stronger foundation on it.
@guesswho1414 "a loving God would never sentence human souls to eternal suffering", is not an argument for universalism. The real question is whether those who will be condemned to Hell will suffer torment for eternity, or simply be destroyed or burned up by the flames. An in-depth study of scriptures tend to support the latter rather than the former.
@mmitubefest okay, well now you are talking about annihilation which there is no support of in scripture. One's finite sins are against an infinite God. Matthew 25:46, Rev 20:10 --> and the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and false prohet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
I've always been a big Rob Bell fan, but I can definitely see why people are accusing him of being a Universalist. If that's what he's promoting, it's definitely against scripture. However, I think it's fair to him to wait until the book is available and we've read it before we make any sweeping generalizations about what he believes.
What I'm not understanding is how is everyone criticizing Bell's view in a book that hasn't even come out yet. No one knows his point of view, he'll probably end up being vague and say something like those who acknowledge and follow Jesus go to heaven. Which is similar to scripture just doesn't go as far as most doctrine.
@TheRickyMaye I definitely agree that we should wait for his book before we criticize him. But I've always been a Bell fan and have defended him, but this has me a bit worried.
@theophilus166 There are some blogs from people who have promotional copies of the book from the publisher, it's nothing to be worried about, it goes right along the line of his other books. Alot of Facts and Biblical and historical scriptures layed out and entwinned with questions.
@TrustinJC How is Rob "leading many to hell" He says that Jesus is the only way, that salvation is the only ticket to heaven, and hell cannot be avoided. Please tell me how he is a universalist, and leading many to hell.
I may be bordering on a universalist but not Rob Bell.
@TheRickyMaye A universalist teaches all roads lead to heaven. We can all agree that not all roads lead to heaven and those who don't repent of their sins and put their faith in Christ will be sent to hell. If Rob Bell were to teach these things could we at least agree that he is a heretic?
@watsumo Yes if someone taught that that I wouldn't call them a heretic, but I might say they are misinformed.
However I believe that God can speak through many things even the words of other religious prophets and gods, so believing that, You could say I believe that God can use any road to bring someone unto him, and some may call me a heretic for that reasoning.
In the most important conversation ever, why not ask as many questions as possible? I am absolutely sure God doesn't mind questions. For those of us who agree that love does in fact win, please don't use this comment section for passive aggressiveness.
@TheRickyMaye I don't know any Christians who think they have all the answers. Mr. Bell seems to be afraid of the answers the Bible gives because he doesn't like them. Believing in God and his Word often means believing things we don't really want to believe. John 14:6 is extremely clear and anything or anyone who says otherwise is calling Jesus a liar.
@122juice Yet again Rob Bell hasn't made a claim that would contridict John 14:6, His New Book points straight to Jesus as the only way. Yes it's filled with questions, He uses every scripture on Hell that is mentioned and doesn't deny it's existance, He would just rather us focus on Salvation on our relationship of love with God rather than an afterlife.
Great questions--let's start with, they're honest questions we should be asking. NPR covered Rev Carlton Pearson who simply asked very similar questions and was thrown of the Oral Roberts church of fire insurance immediately (This American Life, "Heretics"), which raises a lot of other questions, like: Why are some Christians so afraid of asking these questions? Peter Kreeft asks the same questions in Ecumenical Jihad as well.
@megaveen The problem isn't asking questions. The problem is that Church History has shown for 2,000 years that Jesus is the only way to heaven... Hell is a real place... etc. These are questions that have been settled and the minute we open the bargaining table on the deity of Christ is when we begin to walk on icy waters.
If you hear him talk or read his books you'll see his honesty that he doesn't have the answers, no one does. All doctrine and teaching is just commentary to what God is saying. At least Rob Bell can admit to not having all the answers unlike some major church leaders who think they are God's wing man.
@TrustinJC Rob Bell hasn't made any outragious claims. Rob bell hasn't denied that Jesus is the only way to heaven, and he doesn't deny those going to hell. Your not going to get a full perspective on the book from a two minute video. In my books I push the questions alot further than what Rob Bell does, also Tony Jones & Brian Mclaren and Doug Paggit do the same, why focus on Rob Bell who doesn't go to far, he tends to stay pretty balenced.
@TrustinJC well could we at least say this? The question is "what is truth" not "What does Rob Bell, you are me believe". So what is the truth? Is Jesus the only way to heaven or isn't he? Will many people spend eternity in hell or won't they? Is universalism true or isn't it? Does Rob Bell teach universalism or doesn't he?
Where do you get the special decoder ring where "the scriptures" become so clear? How do you pick and choose the verses to actually follow? How do you determine which translation to follow? How do you balance the many contradictions in the scripture? How do you determine when the scriptures are to be taken literal? Love Wins!
Ooo lots of controversy surrounding this new book. Will be very interested to read it for myself. If what 'the critics' say is true about Bell's conclusions being very nonchalant and blase then I will be very disappointed. I don't think its right to make assumptions about heaven and hell given we aren't the ones deciding who goes where. Given the great debate what happens after death already is I wonder if this will add more fuel to the flame and divide rather than unify...
@venerationdieu What is this great debate of what happens after death? I thought the Bible was clear that He who does not have the Son does not have the father and the wrath of God abides on him (1 John) There are things Christians should not split over like what color to paint the church. But when it comes to the Deity of Jesus Christ... that is an essential and if someone does not believe the basics well then I'm sorry but that person is not a Christian. The Bible makes it clear.
Strange how you google "heresy" and all you get is a strong smell of Rob Bell.
Cookey77 10 months ago
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2 Timothy 4:3 NIV
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
monyxprt 11 months ago
My biggest problem with Evangelical Christianity is that they believe a Buddhist monk who runs a children's charity will burn in hell, but a convicted rapist and murderer who repents and finds Jesus in prison will be saved.
FlawdaFootball 11 months ago
@FlawdaFootball As an Evangelical Christian, I believe we all are deserving of hell. The good news is that Jesus Christ took upon himself the penalty of hell for everyone who would repent of their sins and put their trust in Him. No catch. Just follow Him. That's pretty good news. The problem you have I think gets turned upside down when you view someone's "works" or "goodness" in light of a perfect God. We all look really messed up. We all look like rapists and murderers.
trenttuckerjv27 10 months ago
Very true, I find it sad that believing in a love that conquers and restores is radical.
TheRickyMaye 11 months ago
Gandhi once said "I would be a Chrisitian, if it weren't for Christians"...as a Christian, I understood the essence of this statement. Our abrasively reactionary response to something as simple as "Love Wins" indicates to me just how much more we need to evolve in Christ-consciousness.
humanseoul 11 months ago
As a Christian and a universalist but not in a transcendental way but in a biblical way. I am quite certain that the very idea of a God who would send his children to eternal torment is a god of our making NOT the true God. I wonder if we spend far too much time thinking about the next world while neglecting this one. Peace!
1macboo 11 months ago
@1macboo "Aim at heaven and you will get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither." -C.S. Lewis
trenttuckerjv27 10 months ago
@trenttuckerjv27 I Lewis. I do believe however that Jesus seemed far more interested in living our lives in the "now' and not spending our lives dreaming about heaven. when the rich young ruler came to Him and asked what he should do to be saved,Jesus didn't say that he must "accept me as lord and personal saviour"...he told him what to DO now, which was to deal with his mixed up priorities. Lets let tomorrow take care of itself and do what he would have us to be doing today.
1macboo 10 months ago
Jesus is the only way. But why does that have to mean that only Christians get to heaven? I think Bell does not believe in "hell" as most believe it, but that does not make Bell wrong, he may be correct.
1macboo 11 months ago
I don't agree with everything Rob Bell says but to call him a universalist is insulting to him, to say he doesnt believe in hell is ignorant, and to say that he believes you can go to heaven by trusting in another way other than Jesus is idiodic, he hasn't made any of those statements. You can bash someone but at least do it correctly. As Jesus said if you make a judgement, make a righteous one.
TheRickyMaye 11 months ago
@TheRickyMaye Wow, I kinda shocked. I don't think that God sent his son as an option. He IS the ONLY way. As a preacher, Bell needs to walk that line and not make it fuzzy. I've enjoyed Nooma and found them inspiring, but he does get vague with this video. It's almost as if he's implying that God loves us so much that rejecting Christ will still get you in Heaven's gate. That's FALSE, no matter who says it.
Bullitt4 11 months ago
@Bullitt4 I don't see Jesus as an option to heaven, and from every interview and book of Rob Bell's He makes it clear that Jesus is the only way. However What bell is implying is that Ghandi never rejected christ, We know ghandi loved the teaching of christ and believed him to be the son of God, yes he also believed in other posibilities of spiritual wisdom, not eternal destinations or hopes but in wisdom, in the same way Paul quotes Greek deitys and pagan gods through out the new testement.
TheRickyMaye 11 months ago
TRUE religion is NOT man reaching up to God (as demonstrated through all the FALSE religions of the world),----rather TRUE RELIGION is GOD reaching down to man and man ACCEPTING God's plan of Salvation. And the bible says it is through His Son Jesus Christ.
Don't drink the cool aid! You're NOT smarter than God Mr. Bell----so, don't attempt to rewrite the bible and mislead others with your flattering deceptive words by preaching ANOTHER FALSE gospel.
2 Corinthians 11:3,4
Galations 1:6-10
DuneWest 11 months ago
Mr. Bell, I don't know how many people are actually going to hell---whether it's millions or billions or what, but I DO KNOW that Jesus said more people are going to hell than are going to heaven:....
"Enter in at the narrow gate for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and MANY there be which go in thereat. Because strait is the gate and narrow is the way which leades unto life, and FEW there be that find it." Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:13,14)
DuneWest 11 months ago
Ghadi quote: "I would have been a Christian had I never met one."
DMLDisciple 11 months ago 3
I don't understand how people can say Rob needs to read the bible and questions salvation. Yes he is a pastor and yes he is an international speaker and yes he doesn't know everything, but who does? Who knows everything? Who knows who goes to Heaven and Hell? I have the answer to that, no one but God. So just because Rob is a pastor, that doesn't mean he has to understand and know everything about the christian faith.
jes951 11 months ago 2
I don't think anyone here is denying that Jesus is the only way to the father, thanks for the reminder but for me and many others that still holds true.
TheRickyMaye 1 year ago
I don't think anyone here is denying that Jesus is the only way to the father, thanks for the reminder but we haven't forgotten, nor do we think it's truth is diminished.
TheRickyMaye 1 year ago
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 4:16 keep it simple
andykingw335 1 year ago
@andykingw335 It's John 14:6. But ya you are completely right.
dtdowntown67 1 year ago
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
andykingw335 1 year ago
Christ(now risen) died on the cross to propitiate the wrath of God.He bore the sin of his people,though he himself is sinless. So the gospel is indeed about God saving us from himself, out of his great love and mercy, its about God saving us from having to face his JUST wrath against our sin - IF we turn to Christ in true repentance and faith.And Christ is not some 3rd party - he IS God, the eternal Son. Bell's rhetorical questions reveal he does not understand the gospel - he's not even close.
john17v17 1 year ago
Reality check, Rob. God and Jesus are the same person. He is God Man. Kenosis Theory?? Yep. Oh, another thing; read the Bible. It's immutable, it doesn't change so please don't be so dogmatic... that's all.
ladynwaiting1 1 year ago
Reality check, Rob. God and Jesus are the same person. He is God Man. Kenosis Theory?? Yep. Oh, another thing; read the Bible. It's immutable, it doesn't change so please don't be so dogmatic... that's all.
ladynwaiting1 1 year ago
Read Acts 10. If Cornelius was a good man, why did he need Peter to go share the news about Jesus with him? If Gentiles could be saved apart from Jesus, why mention him at all? Why be persecuted for the name of Jesus if it doesn't really matter? Well, it does matter.
brdlyrck78 1 year ago
I'm fairly certain God doesn't "send" anyone to hell, for He desires all men to come to salvation. Those who are in hell choose it, either through being deceived by the enemy or from their own choice.
jasonpauldegraaf 1 year ago 5
sorry about the typos... it's late... again!
SouthernSage 1 year ago
@dtdowntown67 Don't be confused by what others are saying about Bell. Based on your post concerning the 3 things - Rob's teachings would be in alignment with your post. Rob is asking questions in this video. Most of his critics are reading into his questions just like they did in his book Velvet Elvis. Listen to szome of Rob's podcast he teaches the scripures at lenght.
SouthernSage 1 year ago
@SouthernSage I was not referring to Bell when I posted that, I was writing to a commentor. Obviously if Rob does not believe in hell then his views don't match one of my three criteria, which is "if you believe in Jesus's teachings." No one spoke more about hell in the Bible than Jesus.
dtdowntown67 1 year ago
@griffintgulledge Thanks for your comment. I appreciate your calling it an educated guess - Should Christians attack others based on educated guesses? I don't imply that you have attacked but I believe others have. Does it make me outside of Christianty if I do not know who may or may not go to hell? What does it mean to say that God is in all things? Could I be a sheep in wolves clothes?
SouthernSage 1 year ago
@emhauburn I think that you may have your religion's confused. The Buddha did not claim to be a God. I also believe that most people would think of the Hindu religion when it comes to many Gods... excluding non-Christians who may be confused by the Trinity. You may find the book the parallel sayings of Jesus & Buddha interesting. WDE?
SouthernSage 1 year ago
I don't understand, this guy is the pastor of a mega-church, and he does not know what the gospel says about salvation? Are you kidding me!?
dtdowntown67 1 year ago 6
@dtdowntown67 uh WRONG. Rob Bell wasn't saying "I don't know the answers". He was saying, "these are the questions that I will be talking about in my book" This is a preview for his book, dude.
swimweeman25 11 months ago
@swimweeman25 Well maybe I jumped too a bit of a conclusion, but it DID seem like he was implying that Jesus is not the only way to salvation and hell does not exist. If that is the case, then he does not have the biblical evidence to support that. It looks like we will just have to wait and see.
dtdowntown67 11 months ago
@dtdowntown67 false gospels and universalism are great fun... aside from the fact he DESTROYS the message of the gospel, people really love his positive message of love
urbansamurai79 11 months ago
@urbansamurai79 Ya dude I feel you. To be honest I don't get angry at atheists very often because at least they are honest about their beliefs, but universalist Christians and Unitarians just get to me. You have to love them but it's difficult because they are spreading a watered down gospel and making people think they could do whatever they want and still get into heaven.
dtdowntown67 11 months ago
@dtdowntown67 To me they're not preaching a watered down gospel (though I know what you mean). To me their preaching a false gospel. Yes we need to love people, but Paul also said if anyone comes preaching another gospel let him be accursed or eternally damned; let him burn in judgment forever. I think there's more to it obviously, like Rob could repent of his heresy, etc. But when someone is corrupting, perverting, mutilating, etc. the gospel of Christ and leading others astray willfully...
urbansamurai79 11 months ago
@urbansamurai79 Well we have to see what he writes in his book before we use the false gospel card. I want to hear what he has to say.
dtdowntown67 11 months ago
@dtdowntown67 Haha sorry... you're right of course. I came out of a background that I would say did not have a solid foundation of the gospel message at all. I've recently started to understand the gospel after about 1 1/2 of searching, so I'm fairly ardent about what I've discovered. Still working on a more balanced approach :)
urbansamurai79 11 months ago
@dtdowntown67 I agree 100%. It seems (and I like Bell) that he and others are using less scripture in preaching and more reasoning. That's dangerous. Man is fallible and can't figure God out. We are instructed to "trust in the Lord with all our hearts and lean not unto our own understanding" (Proverbs 3:5). This is crucial. Trust in Him alone, not in what we deem as sensible or correct. God sets the standards, we need to simply obey them.
Bullitt4 11 months ago
@Bullitt4 Amen brother. As Christians we need to check our opinions and biases at the door. It seems like Bell is saying "I don't like what Scripture says here, so I am just going to ignore/alter it to fit what I want it to say. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what WE think, it matters what GOD thinks.
dtdowntown67 11 months ago
I am sorry I had to break down the comments in bits and pieces. I hope that this helped answer your question.
emhauburn 1 year ago
They would see error in his teachings when comparing it to the teachings of the Bible. That's not to say that there are some teachings that are similar or aren't good. However, those that conflict with biblical teaching would have to be rejected by someone who claims to know Jesus Christ and follow him. As one who subscribes to a completely biblical, Christian doctrine, (which I believe Rob Bell has abandoned) you acknowledge that there is consequence for your sin: hell.
emhauburn 1 year ago
As a believer in Jesus, you come to understand that you cannot accept the teachings of Buddhism that has many gods and godesses. This is not to say that the Buddhist is unable to come to God and receive forgiveness for sins. But as a Christian the saying goes, "the old is gone, the new is come" ---so that individual would leave their Buddhist ways. I would even venture to say that their former value for the Buddha's teachings would be changed.
emhauburn 1 year ago
You do not empower God by saying he speaks through other gods and religions, you belittle him into something you want, restrict him to your own desires rather than that which he claims to be. If you claim to be Hindu with a Christian God that is ok with that, then the God you worship and the God I worship are not the same. If you truly "believe" this God, you will not 'want' to be Hindu, your striving will be for the YHWH God. That's all I have to say on the subject.
griffintgulledge 1 year ago
Why is it that some people seem to think they know beyond any doubt what was in Gandhi's heart as he took his last breathe? How could one be so bold to say that Gandhi is in Hell? Regardless of your view of the Bible, Dogma, or Doctrine - How do you know if Gandhi agreed or disagreed with you?
SouthernSage 1 year ago
@SouthernSage Call it an educated guess. No one outside of Christianity would ever contend that Gandhi was a Christian. Only inclusvists, pluralists, universalists etc would attempt it.
griffintgulledge 1 year ago
Also, my apologies for multiple posts, but the reason Gandhi then is not in heaven, is b/c he did not believe this. He saw Jesus as a good moral teacher, and he is far from just that. That's not what Christ claimed to be.
griffintgulledge 1 year ago
@griffintgulledge Talking about the passage of the Rich young ruler and eternal life, Gandhi said, "May you and I treasure them and enforce them in our daily life." He also has some nice quotes of sin, and Living a righteous life in Jesus.
TheRickyMaye 1 year ago
After all, John 3 is where Christ begins to share the Gospel himself. Read that. but don't stop at John 3:16, also check out John 3:36.
griffintgulledge 1 year ago
@TheRickyMaye How about this: YHWH God is the one true holy, righteous God. He will not tolerate sin but no one is righteous. No one then, can get to God without another hope outside ourselves. Thus Christ came and died, taking away the sin and giving his righteousness to those who would believe in him as the holy Son of God, the Messiah as the completion of the atoning sacrifice foreshadowed in Lev. 16. He then rose again and ascended to the throne.
That's the Gospel. Believe in that.
griffintgulledge 1 year ago 3
@griffintgulledge I understand the gospel, my question is where is the line drawn? What if i am a Buddhist, whom believes Jesus is the Son of God, died for my sins, and practice what Jesus taught, just don't attend church, and practice some hindu practices and value the teachings of the Buddha.
TheRickyMaye 1 year ago
@TheRickyMaye you have contradiction in the scenario... one can't practice what Jesus taught, while not attending church (Jesus who is fully God inspired not just the red letters but every book of the Bible through the Holy Spirit) practicing hinduism and budhism directly contradicts what Jesus taught (monotheism). The root of it all is that in Christianity Jesus Christ paid for all of my sins and every other religion one needs to be work-righteous instead of relying on the work of Christ.
watsumo 1 year ago
@TheRickyMaye Hey there, I saw your question. In the New Testament, James 2:19: says, "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder." Because the New Testament recognizes that Jesus is the Son of God, the verse is saying that you can simply acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God (and that's it) and still be sent to hell. As one who truly believes in and accepts Christ, the Holy Spirit comes to you and helps make you aware of things that are against God.
emhauburn 1 year ago
@TheRickyMaye If you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, died for your sins, and practice what Jesus taught, then you are a Christian. And there is nothing wrong with valuing the teachings of Buddha, but that does not make you Buddhist. But, if you truly do those 3 things that you listed, then you are a Christian.
dtdowntown67 1 year ago
@TheRickyMaye I think that the line would be drawn there, if not before there; practicing the teachings of Buddha and such defeats the purpose of following the one true King. At least in my opinion.
LongBeachFilms 11 months ago
@sjucrev It's not a mountain. It's a pit, and there's only one way out. Divine assistance. This isn't Greek mythology, and God's not on top of a mountain. This is the one true God and we can not get to him so he had to come to us for. Those who do not believe will not be saved.
griffintgulledge 1 year ago
@griffintgulledge that is the vauge spirituality that confuses so many and doesn't present us with answers that we need. Hense the defense when questions are brought up. So questions begin to arise, What does it mean to believe? Is it simply knowing, trusting? Then why would Ghandi not be in heaven? However just as somebody said below, I just phrase my way, this is our eternal destiny I think questions are warrented, Jesus didn't shy away, nor did he despise questions.
TheRickyMaye 1 year ago
There are many paths up the mountain. Thanks, Rob!
sjucrev 1 year ago
first of all Jesus never promised ANYONE that when they die they go to heaven. If anything, the biblical evidence points to the grave [Sheol, Hell] as the final destination. second, if Universalism is true...what is the point of being a Christian?
AbrahamicMovement 1 year ago
@AbrahamicMovement Guess you'll have to read the book and decide. Whatever you do, don't be satisfied asking the question. Answer it.
glancearound 1 year ago
@glancearound ...the answer is found in the Lord's prayer...
AbrahamicMovement 1 year ago
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Unfortunately, his publisher has clearly stated that this is a book in which Bell argues, "a loving God would never sentence human souls to eternal suffering". That is an argument for universalism. So either Bell is guilty of allowing a publisher to twist his words and purpose, or he is, indeed, a universalist. His questions are clearly meant to question what that person believes in order to disprove it, not to promote questioning a belief to have a stronger foundation on it.
guesswho1414 1 year ago
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mmitubefest 1 year ago
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@guesswho1414 "a loving God would never sentence human souls to eternal suffering", is not an argument for universalism. The real question is whether those who will be condemned to Hell will suffer torment for eternity, or simply be destroyed or burned up by the flames. An in-depth study of scriptures tend to support the latter rather than the former.
mmitubefest 1 year ago
@mmitubefest okay, well now you are talking about annihilation which there is no support of in scripture. One's finite sins are against an infinite God. Matthew 25:46, Rev 20:10 --> and the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and false prohet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
watsumo 1 year ago
I've always been a big Rob Bell fan, but I can definitely see why people are accusing him of being a Universalist. If that's what he's promoting, it's definitely against scripture. However, I think it's fair to him to wait until the book is available and we've read it before we make any sweeping generalizations about what he believes.
theophilus166 1 year ago
What I'm not understanding is how is everyone criticizing Bell's view in a book that hasn't even come out yet. No one knows his point of view, he'll probably end up being vague and say something like those who acknowledge and follow Jesus go to heaven. Which is similar to scripture just doesn't go as far as most doctrine.
TheRickyMaye 1 year ago
@TheRickyMaye I definitely agree that we should wait for his book before we criticize him. But I've always been a Bell fan and have defended him, but this has me a bit worried.
theophilus166 1 year ago
@theophilus166 There are some blogs from people who have promotional copies of the book from the publisher, it's nothing to be worried about, it goes right along the line of his other books. Alot of Facts and Biblical and historical scriptures layed out and entwinned with questions.
TheRickyMaye 1 year ago
@xxtaptothisxx Rob Bell is a univesalist who is leading many to hell. And yet he's written a book about heaven and hell.
TrustinJC 1 year ago
@TrustinJC How is Rob "leading many to hell" He says that Jesus is the only way, that salvation is the only ticket to heaven, and hell cannot be avoided. Please tell me how he is a universalist, and leading many to hell.
I may be bordering on a universalist but not Rob Bell.
TheRickyMaye 1 year ago
@TheRickyMaye A universalist teaches all roads lead to heaven. We can all agree that not all roads lead to heaven and those who don't repent of their sins and put their faith in Christ will be sent to hell. If Rob Bell were to teach these things could we at least agree that he is a heretic?
watsumo 1 year ago
@watsumo Yes if someone taught that that I wouldn't call them a heretic, but I might say they are misinformed.
However I believe that God can speak through many things even the words of other religious prophets and gods, so believing that, You could say I believe that God can use any road to bring someone unto him, and some may call me a heretic for that reasoning.
TheRickyMaye 1 year ago
In the most important conversation ever, why not ask as many questions as possible? I am absolutely sure God doesn't mind questions. For those of us who agree that love does in fact win, please don't use this comment section for passive aggressiveness.
TaylorPhelan 1 year ago
I think Christians are afraid of questions and discussing because unlike Mr Bell they tend to think they have all the answers.
TheRickyMaye 1 year ago
@TheRickyMaye I don't know any Christians who think they have all the answers. Mr. Bell seems to be afraid of the answers the Bible gives because he doesn't like them. Believing in God and his Word often means believing things we don't really want to believe. John 14:6 is extremely clear and anything or anyone who says otherwise is calling Jesus a liar.
122juice 1 year ago
@122juice Yet again Rob Bell hasn't made a claim that would contridict John 14:6, His New Book points straight to Jesus as the only way. Yes it's filled with questions, He uses every scripture on Hell that is mentioned and doesn't deny it's existance, He would just rather us focus on Salvation on our relationship of love with God rather than an afterlife.
TheRickyMaye 1 year ago
Great questions--let's start with, they're honest questions we should be asking. NPR covered Rev Carlton Pearson who simply asked very similar questions and was thrown of the Oral Roberts church of fire insurance immediately (This American Life, "Heretics"), which raises a lot of other questions, like: Why are some Christians so afraid of asking these questions? Peter Kreeft asks the same questions in Ecumenical Jihad as well.
megaveen 1 year ago
@megaveen The problem isn't asking questions. The problem is that Church History has shown for 2,000 years that Jesus is the only way to heaven... Hell is a real place... etc. These are questions that have been settled and the minute we open the bargaining table on the deity of Christ is when we begin to walk on icy waters.
watsumo 1 year ago
If you hear him talk or read his books you'll see his honesty that he doesn't have the answers, no one does. All doctrine and teaching is just commentary to what God is saying. At least Rob Bell can admit to not having all the answers unlike some major church leaders who think they are God's wing man.
TheRickyMaye 1 year ago
This dude needs to read the Bible for what it says, not what he wants to believe. This is a sore misrepresentation of the Gospel.
122juice 1 year ago
@122juice rob Bell reads what he believes rather than believes what he reads.
TrustinJC 1 year ago
@TrustinJC Rob Bell hasn't made any outragious claims. Rob bell hasn't denied that Jesus is the only way to heaven, and he doesn't deny those going to hell. Your not going to get a full perspective on the book from a two minute video. In my books I push the questions alot further than what Rob Bell does, also Tony Jones & Brian Mclaren and Doug Paggit do the same, why focus on Rob Bell who doesn't go to far, he tends to stay pretty balenced.
TheRickyMaye 1 year ago
@TrustinJC well could we at least say this? The question is "what is truth" not "What does Rob Bell, you are me believe". So what is the truth? Is Jesus the only way to heaven or isn't he? Will many people spend eternity in hell or won't they? Is universalism true or isn't it? Does Rob Bell teach universalism or doesn't he?
watsumo 1 year ago
Where do you get the special decoder ring where "the scriptures" become so clear? How do you pick and choose the verses to actually follow? How do you determine which translation to follow? How do you balance the many contradictions in the scripture? How do you determine when the scriptures are to be taken literal? Love Wins!
SouthernSage 1 year ago
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@SouthernSage You get it from the holy spirit.
TrustinJC 1 year ago
Genesis 3: 1
nuff said
naridalo 1 year ago
Ooo lots of controversy surrounding this new book. Will be very interested to read it for myself. If what 'the critics' say is true about Bell's conclusions being very nonchalant and blase then I will be very disappointed. I don't think its right to make assumptions about heaven and hell given we aren't the ones deciding who goes where. Given the great debate what happens after death already is I wonder if this will add more fuel to the flame and divide rather than unify...
venerationdieu 1 year ago
@venerationdieu What is this great debate of what happens after death? I thought the Bible was clear that He who does not have the Son does not have the father and the wrath of God abides on him (1 John) There are things Christians should not split over like what color to paint the church. But when it comes to the Deity of Jesus Christ... that is an essential and if someone does not believe the basics well then I'm sorry but that person is not a Christian. The Bible makes it clear.
watsumo 1 year ago