Since I believe that Homosexual activity is a Big sin, it doesn't really matter, because I still respect gay people, just as I would respect anyone else, Just like I would respect a heterosexual who had sex before marriage. (which is also a big sin)
@MrMegatruth watch my video, my religion is not a cult, watch?v=FE8NtkqWZEE
Now, by your own logic, parents shouldn't teach their children anything, they can't teach them their opinion, nor beliefs. Parents must teach them what you say. Is that what you are trying to tell me?? (no offense)
i did not say it was a cult, you like to put words in people's mouths.
as for your second "point," you do not need religion to raise your child right. you are taking my statements to the extreme. if you were born in india, you would be hindu or buddhist
@MrMegatruth I like the Hindu religion, and that's is okay with me, parents have the right to teach their children what they want, they even have the right to tell them that evolution is evil and false, I won't agree with them. Parents have the right to teach their kids, just as long as they don't tell them to do something illegal or dangerous.
The so-called "magic underwear" gives us power to brainwash people, DUH! Now if you brainwash em with green jello and Twinkies, the retention rates soar to over 99% Fat Mormons? Who cares, our "magic underwear" makes us all feel like 99 pounds anyway.
(I sincerely hope you are catching the dripping sarcasm to your abject silly point about supposed "magic underwear." Please tell me you caught it. PLEASE!
@MrMegatruth What are wedding rings for? Some Jews wear the kippah, its a physical reminder. For us LDS, their is no such thing as magic underwear. What we wear is called garments. The garment is intended to remind us of the promises we (Mormons) made to God. Nothing to do with magic For information about this, please visit
@MrMegatruth Other golden plates with Biblical scriptures on them, have been found in the Near East, in the 20th century, the idea of Golden plates was pretty much unknown in the 19th century. Historical evidence however, suggests that the plates were not of pure Gold, they were washed with gold. There were also several witnesses that saw the plates.
I have a question for you, supposed that in fact, an angel appears to you, then how would you prove that you were not hallucinating??
@MrMegatruth that was not my question, how are you going to prove that you were not hallucinating? Supposing that you in fact see an angel?? Seeing a real angel, is that going to guarantee that you are not going to get chemical reactions in the brain???
CT scan to see if you have temporal lobe seizures, if you have seizures, then it was an hallucination, if you do not have seizures, then i would say that you need to seek professional psychiatric help
@MrMegatruth ok sorry, so if you did not suffer from temporal seizures (Uncontrolled electrical activity in the brain?), then it means that you were not hallucinating??
Why not accept personal evidence then??
Spiritual experiences
Many Theists who have spiritual experiences are mentally healthy.
@MrMegatruth Well those people probably needed to go to a mental hospital. Real spiritual experiences cause charity, love, peace. You can't complain about those spiritual experiences.
So please be honest, I will ask you again, supposed that an angel appears to you, how then would you prove that you were not hallucinating??
@TheSkepticChristian 1 nephi 4:10 And it came to pass that I was constrained by the Spirit that I should kill Laban; but I said in my heart: Never at any time have I shed the blood of man. And I shrunk and would that I might not slay him.
@MrMegatruth Okay, then I am not understanding you. So if you see an angel, and if you go to the doctor, and he tells you that you are okay, would that prove that the vision was real?? and that you were not hallucinating?
1 nephi 4:10 was in the time of the Law of Moses, that was the law, it can't apply today. It will go against the church this days. The church teaches that a real spiritual experience will cause faith, hope, charity, love peace. So their is no reason to blame the church.
@MrMegatruth 1 nephi 4:10 Laban previously tried to kill Nephi, he was guilty, and he was executed, that was the law of Moses back then, but that cannot in modern days, it will totally go against the church teachings of spiritual experiences, that they cause love, peace, charity.
"premise of the question is false" I know you don't believe in angels, but I told you to supposed. If an angel in fact appeared, how would you prove to yourself that it was a real experience???
@MrMegatruth LDS church does NOT teach that being gay is a sin. All gay's must be respected. U can be gay n live a happy life as a Mormon. However, the life must be moral, homosexual activity, or sex is the big sin. So just as long as the homosexual doesn't practice his/her homosexuality, then everything is okay. But no one is forced in the church to obey, commandments that the church tells are as an invitation, Its just an invitation, not forced
@MrMegatruth No, if they don't practice their Homosexuality, then they don't live in sin, Its the same with heterosexuals, if they don't have sex before marriage, then they don't sin. Its the act that its the sin. Its okay to be homosexual in the church, just as long as you don't practice it (sex). But anyways, it doesn't matter that, I believe that homosexual sex is a Big sin, because I will still Respect gay people anyways, I won't discriminate. Whether they practice or not.
@TheSkepticChristian Herbert Mullin, who committed 13 murders, believed the American casualties in the Vietnam War were preventing California from experiencing an earthquake. As the war wound down, Mullin claimed his father instructed him via telepathy to raise the amount of "human sacrifices to nature" in order to delay a catastrophic earthquake that would plunge California into the ocean.
you can believe in whatever you want, but to force this crap on kids is a tragedy. if you came to moromism as an adult, fine, but i still do not see how a rational human being could believe that golden plate nonsense
@MrMegatruth I can prove that my religion is not a cult watch my video, (more statistical information on the second half) watch?v=FE8NtkqWZEE
"In 2000 Self magazine ranked Provo, Utah as the number 1 healthiest city in the country for women. The article said that the Mormon influence is the reason women in Provo experience such low incidents of cancer, smoking, drinking, violence, depression, etc" [Source: MSNBC]
"Thus the word of God is fulfilled, for these are the words which he said to Nephi: Behold, the Lamanites have I cursed, and I will set a mark on them"
The Mark is black skin, but the Book of Mormon also teaches that blacks and whites are equal (2 Ne 26:33)(4 Ne 1:2-3)
If there was conclusive evidence that Young, order such a horrible crime, Historians wouldn't be debating. You have no reliable evidence to support your accusation.
@MrMegatruth There is substantial evidence that Brigham Young did not order the massacre.
I have a challenge for you, please give me that names of 5 kings during pre-classic Maya times, and a brief history. Also, tell me how many inscriptions have been decipher in early Classic Maya period, and Late Pre-Classic Maya period.
We do not find jeus's name in Maya inscriptions for two reasons. First, few inscriptions are contemporary with the Book of Mormon. Second, they come from cities that are not considered by Latter-day Saint scholars to have been Nephite
@TheSkepticChristian The Native Americans are the descendants of those "who dwindled in unbelief." As a punishment for their disbelief, their skin was darkened and they became "a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations." 12:22-23
@MrMegatruth The skin was not the punishment, Book of Mormon (2 Nephi 5:20) " Wherefore, the word of the Lord was fulfilled which he spake unto me, saying that: Inasmuch as they will not hearken unto thy words they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And behold, they were cut off from his presence" (2 Nephi 5:21)
"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. " The punishment was being out of the presence of God.
@TheSkepticChristian For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
@MrMegatruth I already explain to you, skin of blackness is a mark, but not a curse.
"In fact, the dark skin was Before the curse.Alma 3:14"Thus the word of God is fulfilled, for these are the words which he said to Nephi: Behold, the Lamanites have I cursed, and I will set a mark on them"The Mark is black skin, but the Book of Mormon also teaches that blacks and whites are equal (2 Ne 26:33)(4 Ne 1:2-3)"
@MrMegatruth [God] "denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile" (2 Ne 26:33)
Clearly, this isn't the case because I know Mormon theology pretty well and the Mormon god and jesus are supposed to be separate and distinct as opposed to the God and the Jesus of the Bible. The 1830 BOM has more in common with the Bible than the modern BOM much less modern Mormonism.
If the text needed clarification, the Mormon god didn't do a very good job in his poor attempts to 'restore' his true church since Mormonism has proved to be an evolution instead of a restoration.
I admire you for your boldness and your desire to do what you believe is right, but don't you think the evidence you quote here points toward biblical plagiarism rather than linguistic evidence? Prophetic Perfect is used plenty in the bible. I would place this in the "remote" evidence category.
The 'evidence' found in the BOM in the form of the 'prophetic perfect' easily fits into the abilities of Joseph Smith since we know that he seriously studied the Bible, by his own claim, from the age of 12. That gave him about 12 years to imitate the style and, to his detriment, the KJV idiom of Elizabetahn English.
you said, (the Son added) I already explained to you. (FARMS or FAIR) LoL Yea you should have studied, and read content (directly) from FARMS AND FAIR, I expect that. Or else you would be too ignorant. Anyways, like I said, I have to go, I will get back to you. Their is going to be an activitiy of the singles ward. I am just 21, I want to have fun, not only debating a proffesial antimormon all day. But Like I said, I will get back to you.
Are you kidding me? So now it's not an historical document it's a religious book?So if I read Alice in wonderland and asume it's true,I can pray to God to reveal it really happened?I think your wasting your time answering my comments and, tring to find a way to make smith's fairy tale a true story.He's benn PROVEN to be nothing but a complete fraud.Your making yourself look so stupid.You should turn to the Bible,It's all truth and Proven facts,then God might forgive your of pride and erogance
Hey oh smart one, if the Bible is all proven facts, pray tell, where is the Garden of Eden? I want to see the proof, as you proclaim it is available. Also, while you are at it, Sinai might be nice as well.
I like how they say,sure it's true, let me show you this one bit of coinsidence,but always in ALL cases they can't show you even one piece of lagitiment evedence.Not one scrap.How much is the church paying these meatheads to get on here and make ass's of theirselfs.If that book is true why haven't I seen anything on national geographic,or the history channel?they have aired everything from today, to the egyption pharos.why nothing on laminites or nephites?...can I get ONE straight answer,just 1?
Yes. Here is your straight anssewr. You want to know if it is true? It is a religious book (first you have to actually READ it to know this however). Then ask God for your answers.
Ok that is a good point I can conceed that. Science sometimes has caught up with Biblical things such as the world is round,air currents,The Hittites,Sargon etc...I am just asking in the mean time. I read and talked to LDS and some say the BOM lands is all over N.America while some say Mesoamerica.
@Gideon6640man "some say the BOM lands is all over N.America while some say Mesoamerica " Well its like comparing Theistic evolutionist, with young earth creation science guys.
Archeology won't proof the Bible.
Archeology won't proof the BoM.
Just becuase we know where Jerusalem is, its NOT proof the Bible.
If a single BoM city is comfirmed, it would even proof the existence of GOD archaeologically.
@TheSkepticChristian Hold on there. The proof of the archeology of the Bible is solid and it proves that the peoples and places where there and it supports it's claims historicaly, it is not the defining thing as far as salvation etc but solid evidence for its existense unlike the Gnostics that make ridiculous claims..you are arguing two different things here.. I am curious then why LDS looking for archeological proofs then if it don't matter. Do you believe the BOM claims of civilizations?
Once again, we LDS are *NOT* looking for PROOFS of the scriptures. We find evidences, but PROOF does not come from looking down into the dirt of earth, but UP into the HEAVENS of GOD. That is the key.
You crack me up dude,I guess that goes for the entire book? What SOLID evidence have you ever found?It seems to be easier for you to say,why not, than why.If this book held any truth,there would be no you.Will you let me know when you try to substanciate the book of Abraham?or when you try to explain that DNA doesn't prove that ALL American Indians desended from Mongolia.No wonder your looking up,you've dug yourself a deep hole.Did you find any coins as mentioned in the book down there?
LOL! Oh so Grant Palmer now that he is critical (and not very good at it incidentally) is now a hero for telling the "truth"....... ayiyi......Please dear God help me refrain from wasting more of my time on this worthless endeavor concerning Grant Palmer!
How do you think FARMS eliminates problems in the BOM? What makes you think there is probable proof of Nehpite cities? You mentioned ignorant critics,I am curious how would you define one. Im not trying to bait man I reayl am curious because I am of the opinion that if I want to know what a Mormon believes I should ask them. Also do you know where I can get LDS books that are not too expensive?
@Gideon6640man "How do you think FARMS eliminates problems in the BOM?" I said, unnecessary problems, like for example, the Claim of the Book of Mormon was wrong when it says the Jesus would be born at Jerusalem. Well that claim, can be totaly disproven, and its a unnesary problem of the Book of Mormon. (Yes Jesus Christ was born at Jerusalem, THe Land, NOT the City) The Book of Mormon is talking about the land of Jerusalem, not the City.
@TheSkepticChristian ooh no sorry but I lived in Israel and no one there in acedemia,religious would agree with the Land of Jesrusalem at all. Micah 5:2 is very clear.The phrase itself is striking, Jews take the birth of the Messiah very serious. You ask a Jew then and now and say the Land of Jesrusalem you'll get a funny look followed by "huh"? I spoke with Orthodox Jews and the BOM in their opinion is foreign to their culture,religion,Temple..etc.
@Gideon6640man You have to be kidding me, I expected more of you, I thought you were an intellect anti-mormon (well most are atheist I think), you are NO challenge. They can say the land of Jerusalem if they want to. El Amarna letter #287 reports that "a town of the land of Jerusalem, Bit-Lahmi [Bethlehem] by name, a town belonging to the king, has gone over to the side of the people of Keilah. Amaziah "was buried at Jerusalem with his fathers in the city of David" (2 Kings 14:20),
@TheSkepticChristian Anti Mormon? well ok then your Anti Christian then. Now the El Amarna letter was not Jewish it was Egyptian and they of course to them it's Land of Jerusalem you prove nothing..The City of David is the oldest neighborhood in Jesrusalem.So how can Jews who were supposed have come to America have not know that? But reading the BOM it;s very obvious no Hebrew wrote I'll tell you that.Before Christ, is the Hebrew religion in the BOM and the Bible,are they the same?
@Gideon6640man "America have not know that?" Lisen the Nephites had this custom of saying for example, the land (Alma 2:15) and city(Alma 6:1) of Zarahemla;
the land and city of Nephi (Alma 47:20). Land of this, land of that. Its okay!!! So if I say that the Himalayas is in the land of China, would that make me a liar?? What about saying, this is the land of america. Yes you are giving evidences for the book of mormon, thankyou. If El Amarna letter is ancient, its valid to me.
@Gideon6640man "well ok then your Anti Christian then" I am not anti-Christian, I believe in my Lord Jesus Christ. I am not anti-evangelical also, I am not attacking their beliefs, and spreading them all over the internet. I mean I can so easily If you want me too. Then I would gladly take the title of anti-evangelical. But I respect, and leave them alone, and preach my own beliefs instead. Something that you anti's can't do.
@TheSkepticChristian Youy won nothing It's obvious there is no "Land Of Jerusalem" in Hebrew wrtitings period.and the City of David is in Jerusalem. The only thing you "proved" is an lack Biblical history and culture.So what's next , scripture twisting? or maybe some gnostic support for your claims? let's look at the Bible why don't we? In fact lets cut to the chase. Who is Jesus?
@Gideon6640man "there is no "Land Of Jerusalem" in Hebrew wrtitings period" and? Do I care? even if it were true what you just said. But the thing is simple, Alma did not lie, when he said land of Jerusalem, he just called betlehem being in that land of Jerusalem, it wasn't a lie, becuase its true, I could also say Betlehem is in the land of Jerusalem. "In fact lets cut to the chase. Who is Jesus?" Hey I know the Bible, I watch my History Channel episodes.
@TheSkepticChristian "Do I care"? after your "Doctrinal Dissertation" on the History of Jerusalem? Any port in the storm I suppose. Alma did not exist and nor did "Sam" or any others in the BOM in America. If they were Jews they would have been stoned for several reasons . You can say ANYTHING it don't make it true. History Channel? wow you may as well have gone to Forrest Gump University. You seem to be an angry LDS kid clinging to his faith. So is Jesus the spirit brother of Lucifer?
@Gideon6640man I just responded to you, read my last comment also. "If they were Jews they would have been stoned for several reasons " Why? They had the Melquisedec Priesthood? "History Channel? wow you may as well have gone to Forrest Gump University" Hey I also watch my National Geographic episodes about the Bible. "So is Jesus the spirit brother of Lucifer? " I think mr. backyardproffesor answers your question is his last video he made, or his newest video.
@TheSkepticChristian Stoned for blasphemy 1)building Temple besides the Mound in Jerusalem, any Jew would know this. 2) Performing occultic ceremonies in the supposed temple. 3) Polytheism 4)The priesthood in the BOM is in violation of Levitical Law and there is NO Melchziedek Priesthood only Aaronic in Judasim...only Yeshua can hold the Melchziedek priesthood(Hebrews 1). Your Aaronic "priesthood" has not and is not to this day overseen by Levites,this is so strict even Jesus cant hold it. ....
@Gideon6640man There are also many other sources that say "land of jerusalem". I am not joking. Man! who can prove what the bible really says??? Its your interpretations of the Bible, but its no coflict in LDS theology that Leih had the Melquisedec priesthood, thats why he was able to do some things that a regular Jew couldn't supposibly do. and why do you compare a new testament scripture???
@Gideon6640man read my last comment also, One text speaks of the "town of Rubutu," another mentions the "land of Rubutu." The first of these also speaks of the "land of Shechem" and "the land of the town of Gath-carmel" (both ancient cities) and says of Jerusalem, "this land belongs to the king." A third text mentions the lands of Gezer, Ashkelon, and Jerusalem." tablets written in the fourteenth century BC and found at el-Amarna in Egypt use the term land ...."a town in the land of Jerusalem"
@TheSkepticChristian oy vei!!! lol you do care after all. I am not denying that in ancient times Land Of" was used I am saying that the Micha5:2 Prophecy is clear , there is no mention of the "Land of Jerusalem" only Bethlehem Ephrata. Hebrew people would not use "Land Of" for it. The BOM claims it's written by Hebrews so the other civilizations are not an issue. A Bible believing Jew knows where his Messiah comes from.
@Gideon6640man Man! so if Hebrews 1 says that only yeshua can hold the Melquisedec priesthood, why did Melquisedec had the priesthood? Why did Moses had it?? How I see so it changed right?? Old testament, new testament. But Anyways Our Lord Jesus Christ has the Melquisedec priesthood, and humans can also have the Melquisedec priesthood. There are many ways to interpret the BIBLE.
@TheSkepticChristian Sure but its the same thing. To say that Jesus was born in the Betlehem, and to say that Jesus was born at the land of Jerusalem.
@TheSkepticChristian Yeshua was Melchizedek the pre-incarnate Christ in Genesis just as when he appeared to Lot in Sodom.This priesthood is ONLY for Yeshua to hold and cannot be transfered(Hebrew 7:24 in Greek "aparabaton" non transferable. So you are not only in violation of the Aaronic priesthood but you are claiming to hold one that only Jesus can hold. Plus Masonic ritulas in your temples? Aaron's sons were killed when they brought in strange fire into the Tabernacle.G-d don't play dude.
@Gideon6640man Sure but its the same thing. To say that Jesus was born in the Betlehem, and to say that Jesus was born at the land of Jerusalem. Anyways, you would be more convincing, if people didn't interpret the Bible in many ways. Even, scholars look at the Bible in different ways, Some even claim that the first five book of moses had many authors. Others claim that the bible contradicts itself. Others look at John 1:1 differently, its one of the most controversial scriptures.
@Gideon6640man Cont... I mean I could write a false Book, that fits the true books, the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I could write a book that does not contradict the Bible and the Book of Mormon. (I will never do that, becuase I would be against 3 Ne 11:40). But if I write that false Book, one could say that it fits the Bible and the Book of Mormon. So can Jewishs Rabbis Say that the New Testament Fits the OLD? That it does not contradict it???
@TheSkepticChristian But your false book will be exposed because G-d did not inspire you to write it and it can be easly studied.Case in point the Gnostic Gospels, the Quran... Modern Judaism will not agree with the NT because they are being stubborn(Romans chpts 9-11 so it's prophetic). Did you know that most Rabbis do not let their congregations read Isaiah 53(Ashkenazi Jews do not include this chapter in their Torahs but the Sephardic Jews do) or the prophet Daniel?(9:26 is a big part)
@Gideon6640man But if someone writes this, " Moses was a prophet, someone who spoke with GOD, Johnson was a prophet who lived around 700 BC in Jerusalem" and claims that it to be scripture, and that it should be included in the canon. It won't be scripture, and its impossible to disproof, and does not neccesarly contradict the Old testament? What about Jewish Rabbi Gutman Locks? does he agree with New testament? Look here in youtube, " ANSWERS TO A PASTOR "
There are ways to interpret yes but some things are not negotiable. We can argue end times pre, mid ,post trib, sprinkle or immerse baptism....but the essentials ALL Chriatians agree......but when you claim things that were not even found in the Bible or continue to do but in reality have no basis for...wow it's a mess to say the least so why question is....why make it so difficult?
@Gideon6640man "essentials ALL Chriatians agree" so do Oneness pentecostals agree with Baptist?? Do Jehovah's witness agree with Adventist?? Do catholics agree with us?? Fairth vs Works, John 1:1, Baptism neccesary? Neccesary to speak in tongs for salvation??? I could go on with controversial topics. Do Jews agree with Christians, that the New Testament fits the old testament, even when they don't believe in it. I mean they can say at least it fits with the Old testament, but do they??
@TheSkepticChristian Oneness Pentecostals are not Chrsitian .The Protestant Churches, the RCC,the Eastern Orthodox church, the Coptic Church ALL agree on the essentials, what defines you as Christian or not,i.e The Trinity,the deity of Christ, the Resurrection(the Gospel), the Atonement..these cannot be negotiated.Tounges is not essential for salvation. Mainline Judaism does not accept Yeshua but then again they dont practice Biblical Judaism either.. Baptism is not needed for salvation no.
@TheSkepticChristian JW's are not Christian SDA are, Catholics have the right G-dhead & Gospel but they add works. Works will never get you saved. Lets take one subject at a time it's less confusing ok? Works are a result of real faith, the one that saves but not the other way around. Even in the OT works are viewed in the negative(Isaiah 64:6).
@Gideon6640man Are Oneness Pentecostals christian? Are Baptist Christian?? Now I wont use James 2 becuase I am sure you will easilly respond to me, but in James two, its the only chapter that I find the phrase, "faith alone" in the Bible. For members of the Church, These two principles "faith without works is dead,"and "works without faith is likewise dead." are undeniably connected as means to salvation. If I have real faith, works are connected. (Mosiah 3:12)
@TheSkepticChristian Right Justin was reconciling Paul with James. They are not at odds but hand in glove. Before men we are Justified by our works before G-d we are justified by faith. Habakkuk 2:4, the verse that launched the reformation, was Paul's center piece verse(Romans 1:17;Galatians 3:11;Hebrews 10:38). James spoke about Christians attitude within the church not how to get saved. The Church fathers are good to read as long as they stick to scripture.What are Christs' commandments?
@TheSkepticChristian Youy won nothing there is no "Land Of Jerusalem" in Hebrew Scripture and the City of David is in Jerusalem.Where did you attend Bible school? Your Hebrew class did not cover this? I won't even get inot the Temple rituals with you cause I doubt you can handle it. So what's next , scripture twisting? or maybe some gnostic support for your claims? let's look at the Bible why don't we? In fact lets cut to the chase to the most important question. Who is Jesus?
@Gideon6640man I gave an example of such an ignorant anti-mormon argument, and you defend it. Thats so sad, you are just another ignorant anti-mormon I talk with. BORING! But anyways, to be nice man, please just stop attacking the church, and stop looking at anti-mormonism. (Ignorant anti-mormonism also,
@Gideon6640man "Jews take .. very serious" They don't have the melquisedec priesthood. "The Land of Jerusalem" is not a phrase that appears in the Old Testament. When Jews hear that, they probably think you are talking about the city of Jerusalem, its not usual for them to hear that phrase, I suppose. I don't see anything wrong saying that Bethlehem is in the land of Jerusalem. Plus I think the phrase "Land of Jerusalem" does in fact appear in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Read my last 2 comments also
@Gideon6640man "Jew then and now and say the Land of Jesrusalem you'll get a funny look followed by "huh"? " But their is no need to ask a Jew about the Land of Jerusalem, rather ask a Jew who lives in the USA, and lets see if you get the same answer. El Amarna letter #287 reports that "a town of the land of Jerusalem, Bit-Lahmi [Bethlehem]. Good enough for me, I am not contradicting myself but, Even locals considered Hebron, twenty five miles from Bethlehem, to be in the "land of Jerusalem."
@Gideon6640man "What makes you think there is probable proof of Nehpite cities?" I said, I don't think FARMS is trying to find proof, they are looking for evidences, not proof. But if GOD allows us to find proof, like for example, if one day we are able to decipher pre-classic maya inscriptions, and turns out to be the name of a nephite city, that would be a miricle, and it will also proof the book of mormon archeologically. (actually we already have, but it might be coincidence we are not sure
@Gideon6640man Lisen, I see problems in the Bible more serious, than BoM problems (both books are true) Scholars have proposed areas to be Book of Mormons lands, however its hard to test those educated hypothesis because the inscriptions in the pre-classic Maya period are hard to decipher. We have decipher very little in the lands proposed by scholars and the time of the Book of Mormon. If a Book of Mormon city is confirmed, faith won't be necessary, and it also would be the news of the world.
All of the above, of course. I may as well say it, others will say it for me if I don't. Archaeology NEVER has final proof of ANYTHING. It is always changing, and always changing our knowledge of what we "think" we "know" about ancient times. Want PROOF? Read ANY bonafide archaeologist.
Genetic sequencing shows that aboriginal Americans are descended from ASIAN immigrants, and there is no evidence whatsoever for ANY of the BS lies that Joseph Smith told in his supposed "translation" of an imaginary book.
@bomNotUnderTheGround "grant palmer and so many others for telling the truth " First time in the youtube comments that I see someone mentioning a intellect anti-mormon, 90% of the anti-mormons are ignorant. But grant palmer has his own explanations for his belief, which is to him, mormonism is false. But to me, Mormonism is true, and I have other points of view. So noone is going to prove or disproof nothing. I have different ways of interpreting things. To me grant palmer is a Evil Genius.
@bomNotUnderTheGround Oh wow, I just read an article (not from FAIR or FARMS) that says this, According to the artcile, Grant H. Palmer (born 1940) is an American historian best known for his controversial work, An Insider's View of Mormon Origins.Palmer has been quoted as saying that he still loves the church, and was pleased he wasn't excommunicated. A disfellowshipped member retains church membership but loses certain privileges. What a Devil, he probably is an atheist.
LOL! Oh so Grant Palmer now that he is critical (and not very good at it incidentally) is now a hero for telling the "truth"....... ayiyi......Please dear God help me refrain from wasting more of my time on this worthless endeavor concerning Grant Palmer!
And in another place Montgomery states "Of the origin of the American Indians, nothing is positively known...or if America is as some geologists believe older than the Old World, then the people of Asia may have originated here." Here you go sparky there are a couple of slivers, but as I always say For the believer needs no proof, but for the unbeliever there will never be enough, Also Mormons4truth the evidence is not for the unbeliever but 4 the believer, or maybe we should outlaw archiology
I have a history book "The Leading Facts of American History" by D.H. Montgomery 1893 it makes a few interesting comments of several ruins found during the "discovery" of the Americas by the Europeans. It states "The remains in the Mississippi valley may have bee the work partly of races which preceded the Indians"
I've seen several of your videos, and you have YET to show even 1 sliver of evidence that the Book of Mormon people ever existed. NOTHING! You can babble on all you want about so called similarities, or themes, or styles, but the fact is you have not shown one thing that could prove the BOM as authentic! You assume the book is true first, and then try to associate any piece of evidence or cooincidence to bolster your arguement, no matter how rediculous. That's not scholarship, it's ignorance.
That's because your paradigm of PROOF is stupid, illogical, and impossible when dealing with ancient history. DUH! I can prophesy that I will NEVER be able to bring for PROOF, for YOU that YOU will accept. So what? My world doesn't come crashing down, and my faith go belly up and defunct because you have doubts.
@TheBackyardProfessor Let me get this straight, FARMS seeks to find Archeological proof and can't find it so why do they bother looking? You guys make the claims of proof,even have LDS tours to Mesoamerica to show "BOM Lands". It's simple guy at the Hill Cumorah how many warriors died? and have even ONE articfact been found? come on man be seriius. BTW do you live in the Treasure Valley in Idaho? I ask because I thought I saw a guy that looked like you on the I84 going to Nampa, no kidding.
No, what you need to get SERIOUSLY straight is that FARMS has NEVER used archaeology for PROOF of anything. It can illustrate, present some evidence in limited ways, but NOT ONE LDS SCHOLAR HAS EVER DEMANDED PROOF OF ARCHAEOLOGY. You people need to SERIOUSLY begin understanding that. Archaeology will NEVER PROVE any of the scriptures....EVER. GET THAT. Just GET THAT. Artifacts do NOT prove religious belief or inclination or even ancient writings. Artifacts PROVE VERY LITTLE.
@TheBackyardProfessor Archeology plays a part in helping to understand past cultures. Ancient writings tie into them at time. If archeology is not important to LDS then why are so many LDS making claims that there is? Now I want to ask you is this, do you or any LDS or non LDS know of any archeological proof of the BOM? It's a simple question guy. How it concerns faith is another matter but form a archeological one is there any? can you suggest a book by FARMS?
@Gideon6640man Lisen, its okay to find things that won't necessarly proof the Book of Mormon, I dont' think FARMS is trying to find proof. Plus what FARMS does, it eliminates unnecessary problems of the Book of Mormon, proposed by ignorant critics. If GOD allow us one day to comfirm a single nephite city (which we probably already have found nephite cities, but we just don't know), then that would be the news of the world. It would even proof GOD'S existence archeologically.
@Gideon6640man Not for the other problems, we might not know what the solution is, but that does not mean its false. In the millenium we will know the answers. Example, just becuase we don't know what happen before the planck time, does not mean that there was not Big Bang.
faith works hand in hand of truth and I thank you for the truths you are sharing... whether it's meat or milk your videos are fasinating !
and I enjoy listening to them immensely! I feel like I use my time wisely as I listen to them ( your videos ) and i feel like im better prepared to fulfill my calling even better then before i listened to your videos
prophets have allways supported research, maxwell institute is a good example of that and smith said that the world will prove the book of mormon for us in the future.
"The church likely filters its responses through FAIR and FARMS" FAIR - FAIR is not owned, controlled by or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All research and opinions provided on this site are the sole responsibility of FAIR"
"FARMS" whats FARMS? or do you mean the maxwell institute?
@TheSkepticChristian That's funny because my 1971 hardback BOM clearly proves it: "Cumorah, hill, named by Nephites 469-2, Mormon hides records in 469-6, scene of final battle between Nephites and Lamanites 472-2..."
Since we know that Joseph Smith obtained the plates at the Hill Cumorah, conviently located near the Smith famly farm, we have thus proven that it is the same place the fictional final battle took place.
FARMS uses what campus property owned by the church? It's BYU isn't it?
@moparmonster1965 "Cumorah, hill, named by Nephites 469-2, Mormon hides records in 469-6," What are you talking about? I am interested in scripture, not summeries please. of course hill of cumorah was named by nephites, and Mormon hides the records, Read the context (Mormon 6:6 1830 Edition) ".....and hid up in the hill of Camorah, all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni" Notice the words SAVE, GAVE!!!
@moparmonster1965 It appears to me that you also don't understand LDS theology, nor even history, this case. Thats sad. The Cumorah in New York, was latter called cumorah, and its highly most likely that is not the Book of Mormon Cumorah. PLease read my last comment.
@TheSkepticChristian Unfortunately, if the church is what it claims to be, I would then have to take its word over yours, and, as I've just proven, it states that there's only one Cumorah and it's in New York. I can provide more evidence if you like.
What don't I know about LDS history or theology? Ask me anything.
@moparmonster1965 In 1990, F. Michael Watson (secretary to the First Presidency) sent a letter to a questioner, "The Church has long maintained, as attested to by references in the writings of General Authorities, that the Hill Cumorah in western New York " However, It is apparent that Bro. Watson seems to have been speaking on his own understanding of the matter, and not as an official declaration of Church policy.
@moparmonster1965 On April 23, 1993, F. Michael Watson arranged for a clarification letter. "The Church emphasizes the doctrinal and historical value of the Book of Mormon, not its geography. While some Latter-day Saints have looked for possible locations and explanations [for Book of Mormon geography] because the New York Hill Cumorah does not readily fit the Book of Mormon description of Cumorah, there are no conclusive connections between the Book of Mormon text and any specific site."
Since the church is supposed to be lead by Jesus Christ Almighty, its opinion of itself is going to be relevent than yours. That's the reason you can't make this go away.
"In the western part of the state of New York near Palmyra is a prominant hill known as the 'hill Cumorah.' (Morm. 6:6) On Juy twenty-fifth of this year, as I stood on the crest of that hill admiing with awe the breathtaking panorama which stretched out before me on every hand, my mind reverted to the events which occurred in that vicinity some twenty-five centuries ago--events which brought to an end the great Jaredite nation." (President Marion G. Romney's quote, BOM student manual, 1996)
@TheSkepticChristian Of course it doesn't fit the geography! Those events never happened. Unfortunately for your position, the church itself still basically maintains that the Hill Cumorah is the one and only written of in the BOM:
"church itself still basically maintains that the Hill Cumorah is the one and only written of in the BOM" I seriously don't know what you are talking about, but the church has no position on that issue. We just know that the New York Hill (also now called Cumorah) is where JS found the Golden Plates. But the Cumorah were all the battles happen, we are not sure where the hill is, Highly most likely in Meso-America.
The only rational explantion, based on the evidence, is that Smith made it all up. That would explain the lengthy plagiarization of the KJV in the BOM, the utter lack of any evidence for Nephites or Lamanites, and even the fact that Nephi was a Jew but had a Greek name (ph making an F sound).
I've already proven to you that the place where the fictional Moroni deposited the equally fictional plates is the very same place where the imaginary battles occurred. What you believe is up to you, but it's not based on any facts or even the word of the church, but rather, your own desire to believe, and it's the way that you save face when confronted with the major problems of Mormonism.
Of course you conveniently don't know what I'm talking about; the church has never taken a position on the matter because the leadership knows it's all a hoax, but now that the false faith is so profitable, they're not going to let you in on the joke, are they? In fact, all church-produced material indicates exactly what I've already proven to you.
@TheSkepticChristian There never were any Nephites or Lamanites. You'll of course fall back to the 'we-don't-know-where-they-are' argument but to your detriment, Smith made it clear that Quirigua is Zarahemla. Since that's the case, the surrounding ruins would also likely be Nephite cities, wouldn't they? And Smith made this claim only after he read John Lloyd Stephens' book about Meso-America, didn't he?
The reason that Smith, once reading Stephens' book, tentatively identified Quirigua as Zarahemla was because of the 'large stone' mentioned in Omni 1:20. That's it, the best evidencehe could muster, which has also been proven false.
Since we already know that Smith's 'translation' of the Book of Abraham' was fraudulent, there's no reason to assume he had any ability to read, write, or translate any ancient language.
Not only that, but assuming that their cities were actually tied into your version of history, it makes sense that we'd find Judaic and post-Resurrection Christian symbols and evidences, not to mention Reformed Egyptian characters in great abundance. Since we know exactly what Reformed Egyptian looks like, it's curious that not one single example of the working language has ever been found anywhere on either side of the Atlantic Ocean.
The Church teaches its members to love gay people
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
what about the answers to my angel questions?
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
Since I believe that Homosexual activity is a Big sin, it doesn't really matter, because I still respect gay people, just as I would respect anyone else, Just like I would respect a heterosexual who had sex before marriage. (which is also a big sin)
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
Laban was guilty of murder, so that was the law back then
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
1 nephi 4:10 was like capital punishment back then.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
"does it make his visions real?"
Noo
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
good night
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
My grandpa is an atheist,
he tried to convince me since I was a kid
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
you should listen
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth watch my video, my religion is not a cult, watch?v=FE8NtkqWZEE
Now, by your own logic, parents shouldn't teach their children anything, they can't teach them their opinion, nor beliefs. Parents must teach them what you say. Is that what you are trying to tell me?? (no offense)
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
i did not say it was a cult, you like to put words in people's mouths.
as for your second "point," you do not need religion to raise your child right. you are taking my statements to the extreme. if you were born in india, you would be hindu or buddhist
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
Comment removed
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth I like the Hindu religion, and that's is okay with me, parents have the right to teach their children what they want, they even have the right to tell them that evolution is evil and false, I won't agree with them. Parents have the right to teach their kids, just as long as they don't tell them to do something illegal or dangerous.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
good answer
what is up with the "magic underwear?"
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth
The so-called "magic underwear" gives us power to brainwash people, DUH! Now if you brainwash em with green jello and Twinkies, the retention rates soar to over 99% Fat Mormons? Who cares, our "magic underwear" makes us all feel like 99 pounds anyway.
(I sincerely hope you are catching the dripping sarcasm to your abject silly point about supposed "magic underwear." Please tell me you caught it. PLEASE!
TheBackyardProfessor 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth What are wedding rings for? Some Jews wear the kippah, its a physical reminder. For us LDS, their is no such thing as magic underwear. What we wear is called garments. The garment is intended to remind us of the promises we (Mormons) made to God. Nothing to do with magic For information about this, please visit
mdl.org
It deals with this kind of rumors and myths.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
so you are completely okay with the golden plate story, and see nothing fishy about it at all?
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth Other golden plates with Biblical scriptures on them, have been found in the Near East, in the 20th century, the idea of Golden plates was pretty much unknown in the 19th century. Historical evidence however, suggests that the plates were not of pure Gold, they were washed with gold. There were also several witnesses that saw the plates.
I have a question for you, supposed that in fact, an angel appears to you, then how would you prove that you were not hallucinating??
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
CT scan of the temporal lobe
temporal lobe seizures have been known to cause religious visions
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth that was not my question, how are you going to prove that you were not hallucinating? Supposing that you in fact see an angel?? Seeing a real angel, is that going to guarantee that you are not going to get chemical reactions in the brain???
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
CT scan to see if you have temporal lobe seizures, if you have seizures, then it was an hallucination, if you do not have seizures, then i would say that you need to seek professional psychiatric help
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
mass murderer charles whitman heard voices that told him to kill
turns out he had a massive brain tumor, but by your logic, if everything is okay with his mind then the voices are real
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
david berkowitz subsequently claimed that he was commanded to kill by a demon who possessed his neighbor's dog. does that mean the voices are real?
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
to answer your question, if you are hearing or seeing things, seek out professional help
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth ok sorry, so if you did not suffer from temporal seizures (Uncontrolled electrical activity in the brain?), then it means that you were not hallucinating??
Why not accept personal evidence then??
Spiritual experiences
Many Theists who have spiritual experiences are mentally healthy.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
so why does it make the other visions real? are only good visions real?
personal evidence is notoriously unreliable, not to mention biased
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth Well those people probably needed to go to a mental hospital. Real spiritual experiences cause charity, love, peace. You can't complain about those spiritual experiences.
So please be honest, I will ask you again, supposed that an angel appears to you, how then would you prove that you were not hallucinating??
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
GO TO A HEAD DOCTOR
how many times do i have to tell you?
you seem to have good visions and bad visions in different categories
they are both visions and you should have your head examined
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian 1 nephi 4:10 And it came to pass that I was constrained by the Spirit that I should kill Laban; but I said in my heart: Never at any time have I shed the blood of man. And I shrunk and would that I might not slay him.
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth Okay, then I am not understanding you. So if you see an angel, and if you go to the doctor, and he tells you that you are okay, would that prove that the vision was real?? and that you were not hallucinating?
1 nephi 4:10 was in the time of the Law of Moses, that was the law, it can't apply today. It will go against the church this days. The church teaches that a real spiritual experience will cause faith, hope, charity, love peace. So their is no reason to blame the church.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
no it would not prove it was real, the premise of the question is false
prove angels exist, then prove we can see them
a lot of things can cause hallucinations
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth 1 nephi 4:10 Laban previously tried to kill Nephi, he was guilty, and he was executed, that was the law of Moses back then, but that cannot in modern days, it will totally go against the church teachings of spiritual experiences, that they cause love, peace, charity.
"premise of the question is false" I know you don't believe in angels, but I told you to supposed. If an angel in fact appeared, how would you prove to yourself that it was a real experience???
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
"angel in fact appeared" i reject that premise
well then in your fantasy world it would happen
BUT
this is not a fantasy world
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
here are some questions i would need answers for this hypothetical
1. how do i know it is an angel?
2. why would i believe this angel?
3. which religion is this an angel of?
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
"love, peace, charity"
what is the mormon position on homosexuality?
what is the mormon "biblical" position on jews, catholics, dark skinned minorities?
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth LDS church does NOT teach that being gay is a sin. All gay's must be respected. U can be gay n live a happy life as a Mormon. However, the life must be moral, homosexual activity, or sex is the big sin. So just as long as the homosexual doesn't practice his/her homosexuality, then everything is okay. But no one is forced in the church to obey, commandments that the church tells are as an invitation, Its just an invitation, not forced
" jews, catholics, dark" We are all equal.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
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MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth actually, I have a Gay mormon in my friends list here in Youtube, why don't you ask him??
I respect gay people, and treat them like I will treat anyone else.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
but they are living in sin
you really do not see the hypocrisy huh?
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth No, if they don't practice their Homosexuality, then they don't live in sin, Its the same with heterosexuals, if they don't have sex before marriage, then they don't sin. Its the act that its the sin. Its okay to be homosexual in the church, just as long as you don't practice it (sex). But anyways, it doesn't matter that, I believe that homosexual sex is a Big sin, because I will still Respect gay people anyways, I won't discriminate. Whether they practice or not.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
do you realize the hypocrisy of that last statement? read it to yourself
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian Herbert Mullin, who committed 13 murders, believed the American casualties in the Vietnam War were preventing California from experiencing an earthquake. As the war wound down, Mullin claimed his father instructed him via telepathy to raise the amount of "human sacrifices to nature" in order to delay a catastrophic earthquake that would plunge California into the ocean.
does it make his visions real?
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
MrMegatruth, to be honest with you, I been hearing the same arguments for too long.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
truth hurts
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
you can believe in whatever you want, but to force this crap on kids is a tragedy. if you came to moromism as an adult, fine, but i still do not see how a rational human being could believe that golden plate nonsense
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth I can prove that my religion is not a cult watch my video, (more statistical information on the second half) watch?v=FE8NtkqWZEE
"In 2000 Self magazine ranked Provo, Utah as the number 1 healthiest city in the country for women. The article said that the Mormon influence is the reason women in Provo experience such low incidents of cancer, smoking, drinking, violence, depression, etc" [Source: MSNBC]
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
In fact, the dark skin was Before the curse.
Alma 3:14
"Thus the word of God is fulfilled, for these are the words which he said to Nephi: Behold, the Lamanites have I cursed, and I will set a mark on them"
The Mark is black skin, but the Book of Mormon also teaches that blacks and whites are equal (2 Ne 26:33)(4 Ne 1:2-3)
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
If there was conclusive evidence that Young, order such a horrible crime, Historians wouldn't be debating. You have no reliable evidence to support your accusation.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
We don't have much pre-classic Maya inscriptions available, so its very hard to prove that Jesus Christ came to America
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian After the massacre, Young stated in public forums that God had taken vengeance on the Baker-Fancher party.
seemed like he approved
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
that is because jesus was not in america
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth There is substantial evidence that Brigham Young did not order the massacre.
I have a challenge for you, please give me that names of 5 kings during pre-classic Maya times, and a brief history. Also, tell me how many inscriptions have been decipher in early Classic Maya period, and Late Pre-Classic Maya period.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
1. i said he condoned it, not ordered it mormons killed those innocent people
2. red herring
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
We do not find jeus's name in Maya inscriptions for two reasons. First, few inscriptions are contemporary with the Book of Mormon. Second, they come from cities that are not considered by Latter-day Saint scholars to have been Nephite
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian The Native Americans are the descendants of those "who dwindled in unbelief." As a punishment for their disbelief, their skin was darkened and they became "a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations." 12:22-23
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth The skin was not the punishment, Book of Mormon (2 Nephi 5:20) " Wherefore, the word of the Lord was fulfilled which he spake unto me, saying that: Inasmuch as they will not hearken unto thy words they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And behold, they were cut off from his presence" (2 Nephi 5:21)
"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. " The punishment was being out of the presence of God.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
that is the rest
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth I already explain to you, skin of blackness is a mark, but not a curse.
"In fact, the dark skin was Before the curse.Alma 3:14"Thus the word of God is fulfilled, for these are the words which he said to Nephi: Behold, the Lamanites have I cursed, and I will set a mark on them"The Mark is black skin, but the Book of Mormon also teaches that blacks and whites are equal (2 Ne 26:33)(4 Ne 1:2-3)"
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
spin it however you want
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
@MrMegatruth [God] "denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile" (2 Ne 26:33)
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian
first - because he did not come to america
second - because he did not come to america
MrMegatruth 5 months ago
Clearly, this isn't the case because I know Mormon theology pretty well and the Mormon god and jesus are supposed to be separate and distinct as opposed to the God and the Jesus of the Bible. The 1830 BOM has more in common with the Bible than the modern BOM much less modern Mormonism.
If the text needed clarification, the Mormon god didn't do a very good job in his poor attempts to 'restore' his true church since Mormonism has proved to be an evolution instead of a restoration.
moparmonster1965 8 months ago
I admire you for your boldness and your desire to do what you believe is right, but don't you think the evidence you quote here points toward biblical plagiarism rather than linguistic evidence? Prophetic Perfect is used plenty in the bible. I would place this in the "remote" evidence category.
madmonk 9 months ago
The 'evidence' found in the BOM in the form of the 'prophetic perfect' easily fits into the abilities of Joseph Smith since we know that he seriously studied the Bible, by his own claim, from the age of 12. That gave him about 12 years to imitate the style and, to his detriment, the KJV idiom of Elizabetahn English.
moparmonster1965 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
you said, (the Son added) I already explained to you. (FARMS or FAIR) LoL Yea you should have studied, and read content (directly) from FARMS AND FAIR, I expect that. Or else you would be too ignorant. Anyways, like I said, I have to go, I will get back to you. Their is going to be an activitiy of the singles ward. I am just 21, I want to have fun, not only debating a proffesial antimormon all day. But Like I said, I will get back to you.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
not understood in
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
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TheSereika 10 months ago
Are you kidding me? So now it's not an historical document it's a religious book?So if I read Alice in wonderland and asume it's true,I can pray to God to reveal it really happened?I think your wasting your time answering my comments and, tring to find a way to make smith's fairy tale a true story.He's benn PROVEN to be nothing but a complete fraud.Your making yourself look so stupid.You should turn to the Bible,It's all truth and Proven facts,then God might forgive your of pride and erogance
TheSereika 10 months ago
@TheSereika
Hey oh smart one, if the Bible is all proven facts, pray tell, where is the Garden of Eden? I want to see the proof, as you proclaim it is available. Also, while you are at it, Sinai might be nice as well.
TheBackyardProfessor 10 months ago
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TheSereika 10 months ago
for the Bible
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
I like how they say,sure it's true, let me show you this one bit of coinsidence,but always in ALL cases they can't show you even one piece of lagitiment evedence.Not one scrap.How much is the church paying these meatheads to get on here and make ass's of theirselfs.If that book is true why haven't I seen anything on national geographic,or the history channel?they have aired everything from today, to the egyption pharos.why nothing on laminites or nephites?...can I get ONE straight answer,just 1?
TheSereika 10 months ago
@TheSereika
Yes. Here is your straight anssewr. You want to know if it is true? It is a religious book (first you have to actually READ it to know this however). Then ask God for your answers.
TheBackyardProfessor 10 months ago
Ok that is a good point I can conceed that. Science sometimes has caught up with Biblical things such as the world is round,air currents,The Hittites,Sargon etc...I am just asking in the mean time. I read and talked to LDS and some say the BOM lands is all over N.America while some say Mesoamerica.
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man "some say the BOM lands is all over N.America while some say Mesoamerica " Well its like comparing Theistic evolutionist, with young earth creation science guys.
Archeology won't proof the Bible.
Archeology won't proof the BoM.
Just becuase we know where Jerusalem is, its NOT proof the Bible.
If a single BoM city is comfirmed, it would even proof the existence of GOD archaeologically.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian Hold on there. The proof of the archeology of the Bible is solid and it proves that the peoples and places where there and it supports it's claims historicaly, it is not the defining thing as far as salvation etc but solid evidence for its existense unlike the Gnostics that make ridiculous claims..you are arguing two different things here.. I am curious then why LDS looking for archeological proofs then if it don't matter. Do you believe the BOM claims of civilizations?
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man
Once again, we LDS are *NOT* looking for PROOFS of the scriptures. We find evidences, but PROOF does not come from looking down into the dirt of earth, but UP into the HEAVENS of GOD. That is the key.
TheBackyardProfessor 10 months ago
@TheBackyardProfessor Ok then why do LDS keep looking and make claims to the contrary> I am just curious is all.
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
You crack me up dude,I guess that goes for the entire book? What SOLID evidence have you ever found?It seems to be easier for you to say,why not, than why.If this book held any truth,there would be no you.Will you let me know when you try to substanciate the book of Abraham?or when you try to explain that DNA doesn't prove that ALL American Indians desended from Mongolia.No wonder your looking up,you've dug yourself a deep hole.Did you find any coins as mentioned in the book down there?
TheSereika 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
LOL! Oh so Grant Palmer now that he is critical (and not very good at it incidentally) is now a hero for telling the "truth"....... ayiyi......Please dear God help me refrain from wasting more of my time on this worthless endeavor concerning Grant Palmer!
HAHAHAHAHAHA, Grant Palmer is the Devil.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
How do you think FARMS eliminates problems in the BOM? What makes you think there is probable proof of Nehpite cities? You mentioned ignorant critics,I am curious how would you define one. Im not trying to bait man I reayl am curious because I am of the opinion that if I want to know what a Mormon believes I should ask them. Also do you know where I can get LDS books that are not too expensive?
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man "How do you think FARMS eliminates problems in the BOM?" I said, unnecessary problems, like for example, the Claim of the Book of Mormon was wrong when it says the Jesus would be born at Jerusalem. Well that claim, can be totaly disproven, and its a unnesary problem of the Book of Mormon. (Yes Jesus Christ was born at Jerusalem, THe Land, NOT the City) The Book of Mormon is talking about the land of Jerusalem, not the City.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian ooh no sorry but I lived in Israel and no one there in acedemia,religious would agree with the Land of Jesrusalem at all. Micah 5:2 is very clear.The phrase itself is striking, Jews take the birth of the Messiah very serious. You ask a Jew then and now and say the Land of Jesrusalem you'll get a funny look followed by "huh"? I spoke with Orthodox Jews and the BOM in their opinion is foreign to their culture,religion,Temple..etc.
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man You have to be kidding me, I expected more of you, I thought you were an intellect anti-mormon (well most are atheist I think), you are NO challenge. They can say the land of Jerusalem if they want to. El Amarna letter #287 reports that "a town of the land of Jerusalem, Bit-Lahmi [Bethlehem] by name, a town belonging to the king, has gone over to the side of the people of Keilah. Amaziah "was buried at Jerusalem with his fathers in the city of David" (2 Kings 14:20),
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian Anti Mormon? well ok then your Anti Christian then. Now the El Amarna letter was not Jewish it was Egyptian and they of course to them it's Land of Jerusalem you prove nothing..The City of David is the oldest neighborhood in Jesrusalem.So how can Jews who were supposed have come to America have not know that? But reading the BOM it;s very obvious no Hebrew wrote I'll tell you that.Before Christ, is the Hebrew religion in the BOM and the Bible,are they the same?
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man "America have not know that?" Lisen the Nephites had this custom of saying for example, the land (Alma 2:15) and city(Alma 6:1) of Zarahemla;
the land and city of Nephi (Alma 47:20). Land of this, land of that. Its okay!!! So if I say that the Himalayas is in the land of China, would that make me a liar?? What about saying, this is the land of america. Yes you are giving evidences for the book of mormon, thankyou. If El Amarna letter is ancient, its valid to me.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man Lisen, even locals considered Hebron, twenty five miles from Bethlehem, to be in the "land of Jerusalem."
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man "well ok then your Anti Christian then" I am not anti-Christian, I believe in my Lord Jesus Christ. I am not anti-evangelical also, I am not attacking their beliefs, and spreading them all over the internet. I mean I can so easily If you want me too. Then I would gladly take the title of anti-evangelical. But I respect, and leave them alone, and preach my own beliefs instead. Something that you anti's can't do.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man I Win the debate! Now why don't we take a look at the Bible now?
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian Youy won nothing It's obvious there is no "Land Of Jerusalem" in Hebrew wrtitings period.and the City of David is in Jerusalem. The only thing you "proved" is an lack Biblical history and culture.So what's next , scripture twisting? or maybe some gnostic support for your claims? let's look at the Bible why don't we? In fact lets cut to the chase. Who is Jesus?
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man "there is no "Land Of Jerusalem" in Hebrew wrtitings period" and? Do I care? even if it were true what you just said. But the thing is simple, Alma did not lie, when he said land of Jerusalem, he just called betlehem being in that land of Jerusalem, it wasn't a lie, becuase its true, I could also say Betlehem is in the land of Jerusalem. "In fact lets cut to the chase. Who is Jesus?" Hey I know the Bible, I watch my History Channel episodes.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian "Do I care"? after your "Doctrinal Dissertation" on the History of Jerusalem? Any port in the storm I suppose. Alma did not exist and nor did "Sam" or any others in the BOM in America. If they were Jews they would have been stoned for several reasons . You can say ANYTHING it don't make it true. History Channel? wow you may as well have gone to Forrest Gump University. You seem to be an angry LDS kid clinging to his faith. So is Jesus the spirit brother of Lucifer?
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man I just responded to you, read my last comment also. "If they were Jews they would have been stoned for several reasons " Why? They had the Melquisedec Priesthood? "History Channel? wow you may as well have gone to Forrest Gump University" Hey I also watch my National Geographic episodes about the Bible. "So is Jesus the spirit brother of Lucifer? " I think mr. backyardproffesor answers your question is his last video he made, or his newest video.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian Stoned for blasphemy 1)building Temple besides the Mound in Jerusalem, any Jew would know this. 2) Performing occultic ceremonies in the supposed temple. 3) Polytheism 4)The priesthood in the BOM is in violation of Levitical Law and there is NO Melchziedek Priesthood only Aaronic in Judasim...only Yeshua can hold the Melchziedek priesthood(Hebrews 1). Your Aaronic "priesthood" has not and is not to this day overseen by Levites,this is so strict even Jesus cant hold it. ....
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man There are also many other sources that say "land of jerusalem". I am not joking. Man! who can prove what the bible really says??? Its your interpretations of the Bible, but its no coflict in LDS theology that Leih had the Melquisedec priesthood, thats why he was able to do some things that a regular Jew couldn't supposibly do. and why do you compare a new testament scripture???
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man read my last comment also, One text speaks of the "town of Rubutu," another mentions the "land of Rubutu." The first of these also speaks of the "land of Shechem" and "the land of the town of Gath-carmel" (both ancient cities) and says of Jerusalem, "this land belongs to the king." A third text mentions the lands of Gezer, Ashkelon, and Jerusalem." tablets written in the fourteenth century BC and found at el-Amarna in Egypt use the term land ...."a town in the land of Jerusalem"
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian oy vei!!! lol you do care after all. I am not denying that in ancient times Land Of" was used I am saying that the Micha5:2 Prophecy is clear , there is no mention of the "Land of Jerusalem" only Bethlehem Ephrata. Hebrew people would not use "Land Of" for it. The BOM claims it's written by Hebrews so the other civilizations are not an issue. A Bible believing Jew knows where his Messiah comes from.
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man Man! so if Hebrews 1 says that only yeshua can hold the Melquisedec priesthood, why did Melquisedec had the priesthood? Why did Moses had it?? How I see so it changed right?? Old testament, new testament. But Anyways Our Lord Jesus Christ has the Melquisedec priesthood, and humans can also have the Melquisedec priesthood. There are many ways to interpret the BIBLE.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian Sure but its the same thing. To say that Jesus was born in the Betlehem, and to say that Jesus was born at the land of Jerusalem.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian Yeshua was Melchizedek the pre-incarnate Christ in Genesis just as when he appeared to Lot in Sodom.This priesthood is ONLY for Yeshua to hold and cannot be transfered(Hebrew 7:24 in Greek "aparabaton" non transferable. So you are not only in violation of the Aaronic priesthood but you are claiming to hold one that only Jesus can hold. Plus Masonic ritulas in your temples? Aaron's sons were killed when they brought in strange fire into the Tabernacle.G-d don't play dude.
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man Sure but its the same thing. To say that Jesus was born in the Betlehem, and to say that Jesus was born at the land of Jerusalem. Anyways, you would be more convincing, if people didn't interpret the Bible in many ways. Even, scholars look at the Bible in different ways, Some even claim that the first five book of moses had many authors. Others claim that the bible contradicts itself. Others look at John 1:1 differently, its one of the most controversial scriptures.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man Cont... I mean I could write a false Book, that fits the true books, the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I could write a book that does not contradict the Bible and the Book of Mormon. (I will never do that, becuase I would be against 3 Ne 11:40). But if I write that false Book, one could say that it fits the Bible and the Book of Mormon. So can Jewishs Rabbis Say that the New Testament Fits the OLD? That it does not contradict it???
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian But your false book will be exposed because G-d did not inspire you to write it and it can be easly studied.Case in point the Gnostic Gospels, the Quran... Modern Judaism will not agree with the NT because they are being stubborn(Romans chpts 9-11 so it's prophetic). Did you know that most Rabbis do not let their congregations read Isaiah 53(Ashkenazi Jews do not include this chapter in their Torahs but the Sephardic Jews do) or the prophet Daniel?(9:26 is a big part)
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man But if someone writes this, " Moses was a prophet, someone who spoke with GOD, Johnson was a prophet who lived around 700 BC in Jerusalem" and claims that it to be scripture, and that it should be included in the canon. It won't be scripture, and its impossible to disproof, and does not neccesarly contradict the Old testament? What about Jewish Rabbi Gutman Locks? does he agree with New testament? Look here in youtube, " ANSWERS TO A PASTOR "
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man Forget the name Johnson lOl that was stupid, LoL
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man That it's not contracting it???
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
There are ways to interpret yes but some things are not negotiable. We can argue end times pre, mid ,post trib, sprinkle or immerse baptism....but the essentials ALL Chriatians agree......but when you claim things that were not even found in the Bible or continue to do but in reality have no basis for...wow it's a mess to say the least so why question is....why make it so difficult?
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man "essentials ALL Chriatians agree" so do Oneness pentecostals agree with Baptist?? Do Jehovah's witness agree with Adventist?? Do catholics agree with us?? Fairth vs Works, John 1:1, Baptism neccesary? Neccesary to speak in tongs for salvation??? I could go on with controversial topics. Do Jews agree with Christians, that the New Testament fits the old testament, even when they don't believe in it. I mean they can say at least it fits with the Old testament, but do they??
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian Oneness Pentecostals are not Chrsitian .The Protestant Churches, the RCC,the Eastern Orthodox church, the Coptic Church ALL agree on the essentials, what defines you as Christian or not,i.e The Trinity,the deity of Christ, the Resurrection(the Gospel), the Atonement..these cannot be negotiated.Tounges is not essential for salvation. Mainline Judaism does not accept Yeshua but then again they dont practice Biblical Judaism either.. Baptism is not needed for salvation no.
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian JW's are not Christian SDA are, Catholics have the right G-dhead & Gospel but they add works. Works will never get you saved. Lets take one subject at a time it's less confusing ok? Works are a result of real faith, the one that saves but not the other way around. Even in the OT works are viewed in the negative(Isaiah 64:6).
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man Are Oneness Pentecostals christian? Are Baptist Christian?? Now I wont use James 2 becuase I am sure you will easilly respond to me, but in James two, its the only chapter that I find the phrase, "faith alone" in the Bible. For members of the Church, These two principles "faith without works is dead,"and "works without faith is likewise dead." are undeniably connected as means to salvation. If I have real faith, works are connected. (Mosiah 3:12)
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man Justin (110-165 A.D.) said:
“works deliverance from death to those who repent of their wickedness and believe upon Him.”
“by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation.”
“Christ has come to restore both the free sons and the servants amongst them, conferring the same honour on all of them who keep His commandments”
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian Right Justin was reconciling Paul with James. They are not at odds but hand in glove. Before men we are Justified by our works before G-d we are justified by faith. Habakkuk 2:4, the verse that launched the reformation, was Paul's center piece verse(Romans 1:17;Galatians 3:11;Hebrews 10:38). James spoke about Christians attitude within the church not how to get saved. The Church fathers are good to read as long as they stick to scripture.What are Christs' commandments?
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian Youy won nothing there is no "Land Of Jerusalem" in Hebrew Scripture and the City of David is in Jerusalem.Where did you attend Bible school? Your Hebrew class did not cover this? I won't even get inot the Temple rituals with you cause I doubt you can handle it. So what's next , scripture twisting? or maybe some gnostic support for your claims? let's look at the Bible why don't we? In fact lets cut to the chase to the most important question. Who is Jesus?
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man I gave an example of such an ignorant anti-mormon argument, and you defend it. Thats so sad, you are just another ignorant anti-mormon I talk with. BORING! But anyways, to be nice man, please just stop attacking the church, and stop looking at anti-mormonism. (Ignorant anti-mormonism also,
like B vs JS). Preach your own beliefs instead.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man "Jews take .. very serious" They don't have the melquisedec priesthood. "The Land of Jerusalem" is not a phrase that appears in the Old Testament. When Jews hear that, they probably think you are talking about the city of Jerusalem, its not usual for them to hear that phrase, I suppose. I don't see anything wrong saying that Bethlehem is in the land of Jerusalem. Plus I think the phrase "Land of Jerusalem" does in fact appear in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Read my last 2 comments also
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man "Jew then and now and say the Land of Jesrusalem you'll get a funny look followed by "huh"? " But their is no need to ask a Jew about the Land of Jerusalem, rather ask a Jew who lives in the USA, and lets see if you get the same answer. El Amarna letter #287 reports that "a town of the land of Jerusalem, Bit-Lahmi [Bethlehem]. Good enough for me, I am not contradicting myself but, Even locals considered Hebron, twenty five miles from Bethlehem, to be in the "land of Jerusalem."
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man "What makes you think there is probable proof of Nehpite cities?" I said, I don't think FARMS is trying to find proof, they are looking for evidences, not proof. But if GOD allows us to find proof, like for example, if one day we are able to decipher pre-classic maya inscriptions, and turns out to be the name of a nephite city, that would be a miricle, and it will also proof the book of mormon archeologically. (actually we already have, but it might be coincidence we are not sure
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
Now for the other problems
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
The book of morons. What a bunch of lies that garbage is, worse than or at least equal to the quran garbage.
GTCism 10 months ago
@GTCism
LOL! Wow, now here we have a stellar example of intellectual incapacity to deal with evidences.
TheBackyardProfessor 10 months ago
To NOT ONE shread of ANY archological proof for the BOM in the Americas..NEXT.
Gideon6640man 1 year ago
@Gideon6640man
Good hell man, *I* say the same thing, so what? Archaeology has not one shred of proof for ANYTHING. It never CAN prove anything.
TheBackyardProfessor 10 months ago
@TheBackyardProfessor Are you serious or just kidding or just plain nuts?
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man Lisen, I see problems in the Bible more serious, than BoM problems (both books are true) Scholars have proposed areas to be Book of Mormons lands, however its hard to test those educated hypothesis because the inscriptions in the pre-classic Maya period are hard to decipher. We have decipher very little in the lands proposed by scholars and the time of the Book of Mormon. If a Book of Mormon city is confirmed, faith won't be necessary, and it also would be the news of the world.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man
All of the above, of course. I may as well say it, others will say it for me if I don't. Archaeology NEVER has final proof of ANYTHING. It is always changing, and always changing our knowledge of what we "think" we "know" about ancient times. Want PROOF? Read ANY bonafide archaeologist.
TheBackyardProfessor 10 months ago
Genetic sequencing shows that aboriginal Americans are descended from ASIAN immigrants, and there is no evidence whatsoever for ANY of the BS lies that Joseph Smith told in his supposed "translation" of an imaginary book.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
I agree, god bless grant palmer and so many others for telling the truth !
bomNotUnderTheGround 1 year ago
@bomNotUnderTheGround "grant palmer and so many others for telling the truth " First time in the youtube comments that I see someone mentioning a intellect anti-mormon, 90% of the anti-mormons are ignorant. But grant palmer has his own explanations for his belief, which is to him, mormonism is false. But to me, Mormonism is true, and I have other points of view. So noone is going to prove or disproof nothing. I have different ways of interpreting things. To me grant palmer is a Evil Genius.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@bomNotUnderTheGround Oh wow, I just read an article (not from FAIR or FARMS) that says this, According to the artcile, Grant H. Palmer (born 1940) is an American historian best known for his controversial work, An Insider's View of Mormon Origins.Palmer has been quoted as saying that he still loves the church, and was pleased he wasn't excommunicated. A disfellowshipped member retains church membership but loses certain privileges. What a Devil, he probably is an atheist.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@bomNotUnderTheGround
LOL! Oh so Grant Palmer now that he is critical (and not very good at it incidentally) is now a hero for telling the "truth"....... ayiyi......Please dear God help me refrain from wasting more of my time on this worthless endeavor concerning Grant Palmer!
TheBackyardProfessor 10 months ago
@StaceyC123 YUP.
Gideon6640man 1 year ago
And in another place Montgomery states "Of the origin of the American Indians, nothing is positively known...or if America is as some geologists believe older than the Old World, then the people of Asia may have originated here." Here you go sparky there are a couple of slivers, but as I always say For the believer needs no proof, but for the unbeliever there will never be enough, Also Mormons4truth the evidence is not for the unbeliever but 4 the believer, or maybe we should outlaw archiology
ZorroTech88 2 years ago
I have a history book "The Leading Facts of American History" by D.H. Montgomery 1893 it makes a few interesting comments of several ruins found during the "discovery" of the Americas by the Europeans. It states "The remains in the Mississippi valley may have bee the work partly of races which preceded the Indians"
ZorroTech88 2 years ago
I've seen several of your videos, and you have YET to show even 1 sliver of evidence that the Book of Mormon people ever existed. NOTHING! You can babble on all you want about so called similarities, or themes, or styles, but the fact is you have not shown one thing that could prove the BOM as authentic! You assume the book is true first, and then try to associate any piece of evidence or cooincidence to bolster your arguement, no matter how rediculous. That's not scholarship, it's ignorance.
sparkysoprano 2 years ago
@sparkysoprano
That's because your paradigm of PROOF is stupid, illogical, and impossible when dealing with ancient history. DUH! I can prophesy that I will NEVER be able to bring for PROOF, for YOU that YOU will accept. So what? My world doesn't come crashing down, and my faith go belly up and defunct because you have doubts.
TheBackyardProfessor 10 months ago
@TheBackyardProfessor Let me get this straight, FARMS seeks to find Archeological proof and can't find it so why do they bother looking? You guys make the claims of proof,even have LDS tours to Mesoamerica to show "BOM Lands". It's simple guy at the Hill Cumorah how many warriors died? and have even ONE articfact been found? come on man be seriius. BTW do you live in the Treasure Valley in Idaho? I ask because I thought I saw a guy that looked like you on the I84 going to Nampa, no kidding.
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man
No, what you need to get SERIOUSLY straight is that FARMS has NEVER used archaeology for PROOF of anything. It can illustrate, present some evidence in limited ways, but NOT ONE LDS SCHOLAR HAS EVER DEMANDED PROOF OF ARCHAEOLOGY. You people need to SERIOUSLY begin understanding that. Archaeology will NEVER PROVE any of the scriptures....EVER. GET THAT. Just GET THAT. Artifacts do NOT prove religious belief or inclination or even ancient writings. Artifacts PROVE VERY LITTLE.
TheBackyardProfessor 10 months ago
@TheBackyardProfessor Archeology plays a part in helping to understand past cultures. Ancient writings tie into them at time. If archeology is not important to LDS then why are so many LDS making claims that there is? Now I want to ask you is this, do you or any LDS or non LDS know of any archeological proof of the BOM? It's a simple question guy. How it concerns faith is another matter but form a archeological one is there any? can you suggest a book by FARMS?
Gideon6640man 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man Lisen, its okay to find things that won't necessarly proof the Book of Mormon, I dont' think FARMS is trying to find proof. Plus what FARMS does, it eliminates unnecessary problems of the Book of Mormon, proposed by ignorant critics. If GOD allow us one day to comfirm a single nephite city (which we probably already have found nephite cities, but we just don't know), then that would be the news of the world. It would even proof GOD'S existence archeologically.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@Gideon6640man Not for the other problems, we might not know what the solution is, but that does not mean its false. In the millenium we will know the answers. Example, just becuase we don't know what happen before the planck time, does not mean that there was not Big Bang.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
I learn much listening to you
skyaglow 3 years ago
faith works hand in hand of truth and I thank you for the truths you are sharing... whether it's meat or milk your videos are fasinating !
and I enjoy listening to them immensely! I feel like I use my time wisely as I listen to them ( your videos ) and i feel like im better prepared to fulfill my calling even better then before i listened to your videos
thank you
skyaglow 3 years ago
ahhhh ok... Show us some evidences and stop word smithing. This makes us look stupid.
Besides, the Prophet has already told us to stop looking for evidence, since it probably does not exist.
mormons4truth 3 years ago
Finding evidence and seeing the evidence that exists for the Book of Mormon is "word smithing and makes us look stupid?" Oh please do show me how.
TheBackyardProfessor 3 years ago
prophets have allways supported research, maxwell institute is a good example of that and smith said that the world will prove the book of mormon for us in the future.
Jarkko1983 3 years ago
Yes even Gordon B. Hinckley thanked FARMS for their magnificent work. We are told to search the scriptures and learn them and learn from them.
TheBackyardProfessor 3 years ago
Well, doesn't that just make sense? The church likely filters its responses through FAIR and FARMS so it can disavow those responses later if need be.
You play games with something as simple as not knowing where the Hill Cumorah is. In reality, we now know exactly where it is.
moparmonster1965 2 years ago
@moparmonster1965 "we now know exactly where it is" not true
"The church likely filters its responses through FAIR and FARMS" FAIR - FAIR is not owned, controlled by or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All research and opinions provided on this site are the sole responsibility of FAIR"
"FARMS" whats FARMS? or do you mean the maxwell institute?
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian That's funny because my 1971 hardback BOM clearly proves it: "Cumorah, hill, named by Nephites 469-2, Mormon hides records in 469-6, scene of final battle between Nephites and Lamanites 472-2..."
Since we know that Joseph Smith obtained the plates at the Hill Cumorah, conviently located near the Smith famly farm, we have thus proven that it is the same place the fictional final battle took place.
FARMS uses what campus property owned by the church? It's BYU isn't it?
moparmonster1965 10 months ago
@moparmonster1965 "Cumorah, hill, named by Nephites 469-2, Mormon hides records in 469-6," What are you talking about? I am interested in scripture, not summeries please. of course hill of cumorah was named by nephites, and Mormon hides the records, Read the context (Mormon 6:6 1830 Edition) ".....and hid up in the hill of Camorah, all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni" Notice the words SAVE, GAVE!!!
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@moparmonster1965 It appears to me that you also don't understand LDS theology, nor even history, this case. Thats sad. The Cumorah in New York, was latter called cumorah, and its highly most likely that is not the Book of Mormon Cumorah. PLease read my last comment.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian Unfortunately, if the church is what it claims to be, I would then have to take its word over yours, and, as I've just proven, it states that there's only one Cumorah and it's in New York. I can provide more evidence if you like.
What don't I know about LDS history or theology? Ask me anything.
moparmonster1965 10 months ago
@moparmonster1965 In 1990, F. Michael Watson (secretary to the First Presidency) sent a letter to a questioner, "The Church has long maintained, as attested to by references in the writings of General Authorities, that the Hill Cumorah in western New York " However, It is apparent that Bro. Watson seems to have been speaking on his own understanding of the matter, and not as an official declaration of Church policy.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@moparmonster1965 On April 23, 1993, F. Michael Watson arranged for a clarification letter. "The Church emphasizes the doctrinal and historical value of the Book of Mormon, not its geography. While some Latter-day Saints have looked for possible locations and explanations [for Book of Mormon geography] because the New York Hill Cumorah does not readily fit the Book of Mormon description of Cumorah, there are no conclusive connections between the Book of Mormon text and any specific site."
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
Since the church is supposed to be lead by Jesus Christ Almighty, its opinion of itself is going to be relevent than yours. That's the reason you can't make this go away.
moparmonster1965 10 months ago
"In the western part of the state of New York near Palmyra is a prominant hill known as the 'hill Cumorah.' (Morm. 6:6) On Juy twenty-fifth of this year, as I stood on the crest of that hill admiing with awe the breathtaking panorama which stretched out before me on every hand, my mind reverted to the events which occurred in that vicinity some twenty-five centuries ago--events which brought to an end the great Jaredite nation." (President Marion G. Romney's quote, BOM student manual, 1996)
moparmonster1965 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian Of course it doesn't fit the geography! Those events never happened. Unfortunately for your position, the church itself still basically maintains that the Hill Cumorah is the one and only written of in the BOM:
moparmonster1965 10 months ago
@moparmonster1965 "Those events never happened" How do you know?
"church itself still basically maintains that the Hill Cumorah is the one and only written of in the BOM" I seriously don't know what you are talking about, but the church has no position on that issue. We just know that the New York Hill (also now called Cumorah) is where JS found the Golden Plates. But the Cumorah were all the battles happen, we are not sure where the hill is, Highly most likely in Meso-America.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
The only rational explantion, based on the evidence, is that Smith made it all up. That would explain the lengthy plagiarization of the KJV in the BOM, the utter lack of any evidence for Nephites or Lamanites, and even the fact that Nephi was a Jew but had a Greek name (ph making an F sound).
moparmonster1965 10 months ago
I've already proven to you that the place where the fictional Moroni deposited the equally fictional plates is the very same place where the imaginary battles occurred. What you believe is up to you, but it's not based on any facts or even the word of the church, but rather, your own desire to believe, and it's the way that you save face when confronted with the major problems of Mormonism.
moparmonster1965 10 months ago
Of course you conveniently don't know what I'm talking about; the church has never taken a position on the matter because the leadership knows it's all a hoax, but now that the false faith is so profitable, they're not going to let you in on the joke, are they? In fact, all church-produced material indicates exactly what I've already proven to you.
moparmonster1965 10 months ago
@moparmonster1965 Cont.. wait I think he was it was probably a nephite city
(read my last comment)
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian There never were any Nephites or Lamanites. You'll of course fall back to the 'we-don't-know-where-they-are' argument but to your detriment, Smith made it clear that Quirigua is Zarahemla. Since that's the case, the surrounding ruins would also likely be Nephite cities, wouldn't they? And Smith made this claim only after he read John Lloyd Stephens' book about Meso-America, didn't he?
moparmonster1965 10 months ago
@moparmonster1965 "There never were any Nephites or Lamanites"
How do you know?
"Smith made it clear that Quirigua is Zarahemla"
The prophet of GOD, was most likely wrong when he was that Palenque was a Nephite city, (he said that as a human, not as a prophet, to my knowledge)
"he read John Lloyd Stephens' book about Meso-America, didn't he?"
Well the pre-classic Maya were already here, when the Nephites arrived most likely at Meso-America.
TheSkepticChristian 10 months ago
The reason that Smith, once reading Stephens' book, tentatively identified Quirigua as Zarahemla was because of the 'large stone' mentioned in Omni 1:20. That's it, the best evidencehe could muster, which has also been proven false.
Since we already know that Smith's 'translation' of the Book of Abraham' was fraudulent, there's no reason to assume he had any ability to read, write, or translate any ancient language.
moparmonster1965 10 months ago
Not only that, but assuming that their cities were actually tied into your version of history, it makes sense that we'd find Judaic and post-Resurrection Christian symbols and evidences, not to mention Reformed Egyptian characters in great abundance. Since we know exactly what Reformed Egyptian looks like, it's curious that not one single example of the working language has ever been found anywhere on either side of the Atlantic Ocean.
moparmonster1965 10 months ago