heinkel HE 177

[KJLesnick]

Why is it impossible for a four engined aircraft to dive-bomb?

[TheFunkhouser]

Thanks for a nice watch _b

[StaffanGoldschmidt]

Was ist ein "GRIEF" ?

[Rico8458]

they were fixated in dive bombers.

[offspringfanman96]

hogans heros music?

[327409427]

This is one butt ugly airplane.

[lomax343]

The commentary describes this as a twin-engined bomber. This is incorrect. Though it mounted two propellers, it actually had four engines, mounted in pairs, each pair driving one propellor. This system never really worked, and was the cause of many of the fires that bedevilled this plane.

[BigAndTall666]

NOT "grief" but "grife"....

[DevSolar]

@BigAndTall666 Neither "grief" nor "grife" but "Greif" (German for "griffon").

[Vickzq]

@HondaNsrFan

LOL... you exactly pointed out what I was asking myself, too :-)

[HondaNsrFan]

Why the hell has a spam message from a spambot by a porn site the most thumbs up in this vid? Only cause its in German? aaaargh....

Nice Clip!

[BuzzyFredrick]

its 'aptly' pronounced GREIF -- as in Gr-eye-f.. Not 'grief' dickwad

[twobluehorses]

Hitler appointed Udet to his position and since this was the Fuhrer's will Udet was free from any vocal, serious criticism of his policies.

[ProjectFlashlight612]

It's my understanding that the story about the 177's engine faults having been cured by 1944 is false. BMW's team DID manage to redesign the coupled powerplant so that it operated with 100% safety, but only a handful of the fixes could be applied to the new A-5 model because to incorporate more than that would have meant a delay in delivering planes to KG units by six months. Operation Steinbock in early '44 shows that the A-5 was a lot safer than the A-3 but was still more or less a 'lemon'.

[AltitudeWarrior]

@ProjectFlashlight612 The problems with the DB 603G were not resolved until December 1944, by which time the engine had been redefined as the DB 603N for high octane fuel and the DB 603L for low octane. The French He-274 eventually flew with a turbo supercharged modification of the DB 603A known as the DB 603S. I have also heard it referred to as the DB 603B. The He-177 A-6/R2 was rebuilt as a He-277 B-6 with Jumo 213F engines.

[ProjectFlashlight612]

@AltitudeWarrior Far out, and I thought *I* was an expert on the 177. Your kung fu is good. (bows)

[Gasivodo]

Stop your pickering. No religion! No beliefs! Just great Engineering. (Two engines, one shaft = HOT, burn )

Nice thought though.

[rhtbnsl]

ach ja auf der suche nach jemanden der mich von meiner andauernden einsamkeit erlösen kann

[Jonasdarowje]

@rhtbnsl

Und so jemand soll sich unter lauter Militärfreaks finden ?

[49bobbyk]

What did I say that was inaccurate. You make a comment but do nothing but disagree. There is no way that Germany could have massed produced a plane as complex and large as the B-29. German manufacture was not capable of such a daunting feat. Fact. You cannot produce a B-29 in cottage industry.

[AltitudeWarrior]

@49bobbyk He-277 was not built by a cottage industry. It was based on major airframe components of the He-177, with modifications. The plant at Oranienberg produced twice as many He-177 airframes as ever flew. Lack of engines was the primary hold up followed by a lack of aircrew by 1945. the aircraft definitely flew and production was halted when Germany was still capable of mass producing the He-277 for political reasons. The B-29 was fraught with technical problems.

[49bobbyk]

What did I say that was inaccurate. You make a comment but do nothing but disagree. There is no way that Germany could have massed produced a plane as complex and large as the B-29. German manufacture was not capable of such a dauntinf feat. Fact. You cannot produce a B-29 in cottage industry.

[binaway]

@49bobbyk The Nazis running of German and occupied Industry was terrible. Germany only produced 119.5k aircraft to Britain's ( with half the population and industrial capacity) 135.9k. The US over 350k in about half the time and the US retained 40% of it's industry for civilian production. French industry produced 3.5k in 1939 but only about 500 during the 4 years of German control. The US and Soviets had a number of aircraft plants with over 40k employees. The Biggest German plant had 10k.

[49bobbyk]

No long range bomber, no win war. The German's inability to produce a long range bomber showed the limitations of their manufacturing capabilities. It is quite amazing that the Germans were years ahead in design and showed such vision yet they went off on tangents that led nowhere. There is no way, even with the brilliance of Speer that Germany could have produced a B-29. No way. No other country on earth at the time could produce what the United States produced in military aviation.

[dasSofa]

@49bobbyk

You know not at all by what you write ... only time you inquire before you write such garbage

[AltitudeWarrior]

@49bobbyk The He-277 was superior in every respect to the B-29. Flew higher and faster and above allied interceptors. In July 1944 the project was cancelled after 16 were built and eight flown. Instead the SS took over the Nazi A-bomb project and the winged V-2 project and decided to focus entirely on something which the SS could perform without Luftwaffe support. The SS viewed the Luftwaffe as unreliable because of fatboy Goering's incompetence.

[fluffy1931]

@AltitudeWarrior pure BS' . More vaporware from a 12yr old living in his mom and dads basement. This design never got off the drawing board. translation 'did'nt happen'.

Better you - trot out a nazi fagtard 'unicorn' developed for your'e luftwaffe fantasy.

[AltitudeWarrior]

@fluffy1931 My father died in 1980. You deal in human excrement when you insult people's dead parents. I don't feel the need to justify myself to someone who attacks the individual and can't argue the facts. Probably one of your major limitations

[fluffy1931]

@AltitudeWarrior everybody dies dipshit. get over it. facts - yours

are pure 'Bs suck it up and grow up assfag.

[ProjectFlashlight612]

The requirement that all Luftwaffe bombers be able to dive-bomb was part of the overall strategy, which saw the air force as a tactical force...supporting blitzkrieg advances as 'flying artillery'. That's why the Luftwaffe built lots and lots of medium

and dive bombers, but only one heavy bomber. The 177 couldn't handle steep dive attacks, so the requirement was withdrawn, but because of the engine problems, the 177 wasn't able to be the effective strategic bomber it could've been.

[SvenTviking]

All the prototypes and pre production aircraft burned. Absolute death trap. More lost to fires than allied action. Total Grief for their crews and the familys of their crews who had to attend their funerals.

[SvenTviking]

They had at first the DB606 engine that was two DB601 joined to a commen gearbox, and then the DB610 made of two DB605s. They had the great idea of all the fuel lines and all the high tension ignition lines running between each seperate engine block,in and out of the hot exhaust pipes! And there was no fire wall between the engine nacales and the wings with their fuel tanks!

[StaffanGoldschmidt]

What do you mean with "greef"? it was called "Greif" spell GRIF, ignorant!

[wz2001]

Isn't that the same narrator who did The Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy?

[cfs3000]

@wz2001 no, that's Stephen Fry

[buidseach]

they should have put the wings and engines of the condor on to the greif

[PzAufklaerer12Btl]

@buidseach the condor wasnt a bomber. not at all. thats why. not even the wings.

[kukanonote]

hahahaha the "vuvuzelas" is awesome!!!!

[bnipmnaa]

Annoying how the narrator can't pronounce 'Greif' correctly... it should rhyme with "knife", not "teeth".

[naltrexone23X]

@bnipmnaa I know, and he doesn't seem to know it means griffin, not an emotion of loss lol

[nachjagger33]

tremendo bicho

[gsixties]

This plane was also called "THE LUFTWAFFE-LIGHTER" because of its mistake to burn. In Stalingrad they have 9 HE177 to bring supplies into town- 5 of them began to burn and out of service... .

[KiaraAntillaw43]

huhuhab total lust bilder tauschen und chatn bin so einsam brauche dringend beschäftigung

[BlitzWotan]

What looks fast is fast. The GREIF suffered as many other superior inventions & designs the problem that idiots wanted that is was capable of dive bombing as a 4 engine design it was approx

3 years earlier availabe as the B29

[StaffanGoldschmidt]

It's name is GREIF not GRIEF

[MrCrossbiker]

He 177,das Reichsfeuerzeug,einziger schwerer Bomber der Luftwaffe,viele Abstürze durch Motobrände,verursacht durch ungünstige Anordnung der Doppelmotoren in der Nähe der hydraulichen Leitungen des Fahrwerks.Auch strukturelle Probleme der Flugzeugzelle,verursacht durch unerklärliche mechanische Vibrationen , Leitwerksflattern etc,führten auch zu tödlichen Abstürzen!

[TheLastBrainLeft]

This plane's development closely matches the Avro Manchester, particularly the use of paired paired engines in single nacelles. Thankfully for the world, the RAF realized it's mistakes with that design and corrected it, resulting in the Lancaster. With 4 reliable engines, this plane could have provided the retaliation Hitler demanded after the Anglo-American bombing offensive intensified.

[bazzaah]

It had a very awkward, lengthy bedding in period but it had real potential.

Apparently, Greifs would shallow dive back to Germany at 400mph plus after the Steinbock raids in 1944.

[Schapuffel]

Die Reichsfackel!

Eine von den Piloten unbeliebte Maschine viele davon hatten Motorbrände oder sind in der Luft zerbrochen!

[the82spartans]

Dive bomber... not so much.

Interesting plane, however.

Thank you.

[PrinceMustDie666]

Most german aircraft were plagued by too short a combat radius, the ME-109 carried only 75 gallons of fuel on board! This cost them the Battle of Britain since it was only later than the Germans thought to fit drop tanks.  If they had thought of air-to-air fueling (yes its possible with prop aircraft, they do it for certain helicopters now) the war might have turned out differently. Whats more the HE 177 was unworkable, they managed to get maybe 50 into service but too little, too late.

[BDNeon]

Basically the thinking was if you pair the engines into a single streamlined nacelle, you can significantly reduce drag while maintaining horsepower, which also enables dive bombing. However, pairing engines together almost always results in heat problems, probably due to the rear engine lacking a frontal radiator as well as both engines contributing to eachothers heat.

Still, it has merit for being highly fuel efficient, since it's designed to have as little drag as possible.

[thisisnev]

Er... the He177's engines were paired side-by-side in a W-arrangement around a common crankcase, like the Allison V-3420. A major cause of He177 fires was the build-up of oil in the sump, compounded by the lack of a firewall bulkhead between the engine mountings and the oil tanks.

[Waltham1892]

I never understood the German insistance on the ability to dive bomb, even for heavy bombers...

[BDNeon]

Well, if you look back on their campaigns in Spain, Poland, the low countries, France, etc etc, it was the dive bombers that won the day. If something works well then you keep doing it.

[Waltham1892]

That is understandable, but it so limited their aircraft developement. They had to of been aware of the B-17 and the Lancaster. The thought must have crossed their minds that dive bombing, with its requirements on the airframe, limited design options...

[BDNeon]

Well keep in mind that long range strategic bombing never factored into their overall planning. All actions taken would be within easy range of smaller tactical bombers. Britain was only a short hop over the channel, and airfields were usually able to keep pace with advances into Russia. Not much need for a long range bomber when the enemy is so close.

[Waltham1892]

I hadn't considered that. Now that I recall, the B-17 was designed as a martime bomber (which it failed at utterly). The US thinking at the time was the defence of the US, and not offensive operations in Europe.

[binaway]

@BDNeon but only if the enemy lacks effective fighter cover otherwise in level flight a dive bomber was easily shot out of the air. Plus it takes a very good pilot, like Udet, to fly a dive bomber properly. A lot of Luftwaffe pilots complained that the allies achieved excellent ground attack without having the additional danger of dive bombing.

[jetaddicted]

@Waltham1892 just check the success rate of horizontal bombers during the period,you'll understand...

[GendPzTrSchmidt]

@Waltham1892 It's a result of the Blitzkrieg-capatbilities of the German army.

German military planers never intended to involve Germany in long wars like in 1914. They always tried to keep future wars as short as possible, which required big tactical capabilities. Dive bombers at that time were able to take out troops, trains, single objects, bunkers, and ships. Big strategical bombers can only be used to destroy industry-capabilities, which was unnecessary from the German point of view.

[twobluehorses]

@GendPzTrSchmidt Which is all well and good if your opponents surrender when they're supposed to and when you don't battle too many different countries on too many fronts at the same time.

[snoMedia]

@GendPzTrSchmidt dive bombers also provided a mutch higher accuracy as level bombers did. It requred way less units to actualy hit the desiganted targets and destroy them eith even a single bomb which level bombers only achieved with a lot of luck.

[GendPzTrSchmidt]

@snoMedia Yeah but the highest developement-level of divers was reached by the Ju-88, the Fw-190 and the famous Ju-87 did a fabulous job, too because they were reliable, simple and considerably small. The He-177 was already to big and I also ask myself why a Dive-Bomber would need a bombload of 7,3 Tons.

[naltrexone23X]

@Waltham1892 

[PzAufklaerer12Btl]

@Waltham1892 the reason was to hit targets exactly

[Waltham1892]

@PzAufklaerer12Btl I understand that, but it limited design so much...

[Danny77uk]

@Waltham1892 You can thank Hitler for that. He was obsessed with dive-bombers.

[MusikAndLuv]

@Danny77uk It was Ernst Udet, one of the people in charge of T-Amt, among other positions, who insisted upon making every German bomber capable of dive-bombing. This influence can be seen in its application with the Junkers Ju 88. Although Hitler was a proponet of many new technologies of varying efficiency, the biggest push for dive-bombing capability came from Udet.

[nolifemerc]

@Danny77uk lol almost true but then again so was the americans, and hmmm the english alittle bit also.

[Aenigmaa]

@Waltham1892

I just visualised a divebombing B-29 (if, for example, the Germans had somehow captured one) it made me lol :D

[kukenimunnen]

@Waltham1892 Because it´s awesome!

[cfstarfighter]

@Waltham1892 Because the German High Command felt that pinpoint bombing instead of mass attacks on large areas, would provide a greater success with minimal expenditure of material and manpower.This was important owing to the situation of German raw materials, a situation which would become dangerous in the event of a long war. Interesting to note that the Stuka's birthplace is in the USA. The concept was developed there and brought back to Germany before the war.

[nimbalo300]

@Waltham1892 because they wanted to hit the target not the whole city

[Waltham1892]

@nimbalo300 History clearly shows that the Nazi Germany was not so discriminating in its selection of targets.

Germany bombed cities beginning in the Spanish Civil War, and ended only when it lost the ability to project air power beyond its own airspace.

[nimbalo300]

@Waltham1892 weeeeeeeeeeeeel the only reason they bombed the british cities was revenge for dresdon and berlin and after the spanish war they where told to stop from america and the british so they did

[Waltham1892]

@nimbalo300 You know nothing of the histroy of the war, do you?

The Spanish Civil War was before the general European war, before Germany bombed the majory cities of EVERY NATION it invaded except Austria (which was annexed).

Germay continued to attack cities into 1945, when the Americans and English pushed the German army far back enough from the coast to stop V-1 and V-2 attacks on London and Antwerp.

You can't make Germany's war history pretty with ignorance, or lies.

[phaasch]

@nimbalo300 you really are an idiot! The bombing of Berlin was only begun after the first Luftwaffe strikes on London. Dresden was one of the very last acts of the european war, so how could British cities have been bombed in retaliation for something which hadnt yet happened? Go away and read some proper history books (Ie. NOT by David Irving)

[rampking1]

@phaasch Lone damaged Luftwaffe bomber jettisoned it bombload over London in 1940 and the RAF returned the favor. Changed the course of the Battle of Britain, Adolf was enraged his beloved Berlin being hit so he diverted attacks away from military targets and went after GB cities. Exactly the breather the RAF needed to re-group and prevail.

1945 Dresden bombings = war crime

[jucoco1]

@Waltham1892 Works really well when you have air superiority. They took out all of Frances tanks (which outnumbered the German tanks at the time) in a matter of hours.

[Waltham1892]

@jucoco1 I'm sure the Japanese at Midway would agree with you...

[aspiringdrummer17]

@Waltham1892 It was Hitler who wanted it to have the ability to dive bomb. The Luftwaffe just wanted to have a heavy bomber to fulfil a role similar to the B-17, Lancaster etc. Hitler always got the last word though

[cyb0rg2]

@aspiringdrummer17 no it's Udet

[rampking1]

@Waltham1892 The mindset was for tactical support for the Wehrmacht during Blitzrieg and short-range conflicts. Yes, it was a mistake. Of course if you believed the common notion that Nazi Germany wanted to take over the world , this makes no sense at all.

[wolf363636]

@Waltham1892 hi waltham1892, that will happen, when stupid Idiots like AH take influence of weapons they dont understand, look at the Me 262, and noboby is brave to tell the truth, because he is the great Führer and cant do any Mistakes, unfortunally many People must pay with their lives for that Madness

[AndrewGraham07]

Mispronunciation of "GREIF" (=engl. "Griffin", "Griffon") by the speaker. Correct German pronunciation is "Greif" as in the English "strife". See also "Greifvogel" (=engl. "Bird of Prey"). So the speaker's play on words that the bomber was aptly named (Greif = engl. "grief" = troublesome) is linguistically incorrect. Great footage of a rare aircraft, thanks for uploading.

[kralev77]

This movie is one big lie - UK was bombed only using V rockets , there was not battles for england at all ... Churchil even encourage Hitler to attack Russia ( "... set Europe in fire" )

[xenophobephoto]

This was NOT a "twin engine".

It had four engines; two Daimler inline sixes ATTACHED; one for each prop.

[MrPlanedrawer]

No xenophobephoto, they were two DB-610's in each wing each comprising two DB-605 V-12's canted together and on a common nose case. Oil leaks caught fire on the lower inner-most exhaust stacks. It was technically a twin engine ;).

[ProjectFlashlight612]

The 177 was a failure because of the typically German passion for quality over quantity. - too many innovative ideas tried in the one airframe at the same time. The obvious solution would have been to abandon the 177 and build the four-nacelle 277. (Only about six 277s were constructed) They DID fix the engine fire problem, in 1943, but to retool the production line would have held up the improved A-5 model for at least six months. A pity, because the 177 was a fast and deadly bomber.

[nolifemerc]

what you ares aying is true quality first the russian chosed quantity so bye bye 3rd reich.

[Maus5000]

instead of just large raidiators, if they had used the origional Quality engines which had a vey effective cooling system , and used the origoinal remote controled barbettes, it would have bean a much better bomber with a lighter weight and better handling.

[fjbutch]

My dear 'ol neighbour flew in this aircraft as a radio operator during the war. Great chatting and listening to his recollection of his time with his aircraft etc.

[Xiolablu3]

The main issue was that they insisted that it had to be able to dive bomb.

Which was crazy...

[Faraz70]

isnt it very strange why Hitlers Germany could produce a bomber of the likes of B-17 and the Lancaster? I wonder why? not to mention they didnt have any aircraft carrier for their navy?

[inar64]

4 daimler-benz db601 engines were used to power this plane. db610 to be exact. (a coupled 601 engine)

[thisisnev]

The DB610 was two coupled DB605s.

[daggers93]

Should of had 4 engines from the start.Then they could have had time to perfect the 2 engine version.

[inar64]

it HAD 4 engines

[daggers93]

My mistake what i should of said 4 engines with their separate propellers systems instead of two engines per propeller which caused endless problems.

[arado240dd]

This is the rounded fuselage version.

I reckon its the better looking version.

[CaptBubble]

Like the Short Stirling this was a plane spoilt by bureaucratic interference, made worse because Ernst Heinkel did not join the Nazi party.

[Oberpfaffofen]

The video says the "aptly named Grief"... it was called the Greif.. which means "griffon". Same pronunciation, different meaning. The problem with the overheating was due to having two engines crammed together into each nacelle to drive a single airscrew. So, in reality, it technically was a "four-engined" bomber. The engines, used seperately, were great powerplants.

[wildesau]

Yes they were some serious cooling Problems, but i think if the got a half year more time to work on this bird can be one of the best bombers build in WW2

[thisisnev]

Except that more He177s would only have worsened Germany's chronic fuel shortage.

[TroyaE117]

This aircraft was a death trap. The engines were always running far too hot.

[Tookarooks]

Nice piece of film,thanks.

[freiherrudet]

One of my favourite planes, great video!