First, the united states is a republic meaning majority and minority mean NOTHING
also, what you ppl dont seem to understand is that even though we have to pay for health care, our health care is WAY better then counties with free health care. Take the case of natasha richarson for example, she got a small head injury in CANADA,which has free health care, and died because the hospital didnt specilize in head injuries. Here, all our hospitals specialize in everything. be informed b4 u post
@Mitchattack4 'We people' understand that point; however, in America, if she didn't have health insurance, she would've died because the hospital didn't do head injury work for charity. Which is worse?
Grayson is a dumbshit nobody representative....(that will lose his seat in 2010 by the way) never done nothing, not even spoken to the topic until now....
Someone put up money through the DNC and said anyone that goes out and makes a fool of themselves gets funding for 2010...
Most of the dumocrats balked at the 'easy money' but Grayson is too dumb to realize coming out boldly for something the majority of voters are against is not wise no matter how much campaign money you get... so what.
The majority is not against....Republicans lie for status qoute and stupidity prevails because that is the basis of your consensus...Republicans just know how stupid and fickle most people in America are and use it to do their evil! Doesn't matter, I will sponsor at least 2 more liberal Americans to save them from certain death from your neo-nazi sanctuary...If I can save at least 2 more, that's something! Now Republicans think: "if I could kill at least a few more, then that's abonus!"..Scums!
I dunno...let's see, even the msnbc polls show a 51% opposed to government health care to 47% pro with a few % undecided...that's not a majority though to Sadier888. And that's without even knowing the worst of the plan and the REAL cost of it....it gets worse from here...
euhm there isnt a single poll thats against the reform / public option? except mb what fox news is saying...but ive had a college class in research methods gimme those polls ill deal with them between two naps.
Madronas, people like you are what's wrong with this country. A sixth of a nation's economy shouldn't be based on making a profit off of sick and dying people. Just like last autumn proved a third of nation's economy can't be based off of selling paper and coming up with crazy math equations to reap a profit.
Continue to let the corporations rape the American working and middle class and they're won't be any money left for you bloodsuckers to drain from them.
Medicine is an industry like any other. Doctors and facility owners operate their business the way they want. Government interference in private business enterprise is wrong.
Bullshit. 45 million people cannot afford health care and are uninsured. Hospitals literaly throw people out on the streets if they dont have "coverage". And people think that a universal health care plan is the first step to socialism? What about England's NHS? or France? They're system is for EVERYONE and virtually free. They only pay about 10 bucks for perscriptions of any kind. THATS IT. No cost for x rays, casts, MRI's. Bottom line, our health care system is based on greed. Period.
I sponsored two artists from America, one was a very talented but ill man with bipolar disorder, who had survided one suicide attempt after going bankrupt from deregulated drug costs. His art reflecting his hatred for America became a hit in France and now they live happy lives under our French system...I remember when they were first received by our government, they burst into tears and to this day refuse to go back. The American system is a holocaust...It's simply evil and must be dismantled!
I couldnt agree more. Im from California and I wish that I lived in France or England. They care about the people. Not profit from the sick and dying. Im a musician so i understand your artist's hate towards america. I have written a few songs about america and its different subjects. My father is a quadrapelegic and my mother lost her leg to cancer. Luckily are insurance payed for my dad's visits to the hospital and didnt deny him. We would be in real trouble otherwise..
That's the point, it's an industry like any other and doctors can not actually operate their businesses. They are hindered by the efforts of the insurance industry to cut off coverage and thus limit the amount of care they the doctors provide. Now if the doctors counsulting with the patients decided who gets what care, you'd have a sensible free market competition between the doctors that would improve the overall care.
Want to see a real holocaust - look at cancer survival rates in Canada and the U.K.
Women with breast cancer in Britain have a 46% chance of d y i n g from it. In the U.S. a 25% chance. A man with prostate cancer, has a 57% chance of d y i n g from it in the U.K. 42% in Canada vs only 19% in the U.S.
I agree with you to a degree, but these deaths in america aren't "natural deaths" by any means. They are due to negligence on behalf of our government and healthcare system. we're leaving them out there to die. It isn't equal to murder, but it is inaction, and people are dying b/c of it.
I know ancient Greek... I had to read Plato in Greek for my high school finals for crying out loud, so there's no reason to be smug!!
Don't start denying that the word itself has gotten intertwined with the meaning it got after World War II, because that, sir, would make you ignorant.
From the placement in the thread, which is no giveaway if you've ever attempted to follow threads the YT way, it appears you don't have a rebuttal for the replies poking you for defending the improper use of the word "holocaust."
So, an all-burning destruction of american health care cannot be called as such because of the intertwining of meanings brought about in the last 60 years?
I suppose in a while we will not be able to use the term "calamity" because it translates to shoah?
No smugness here, not knowing the origin of a word is ignorance; and that's not an offense, it's an observation.
And to blindly accept newspeak programming is to be an accessory.
Seeing as how alternative (which is only "alternative" because it has no proven effect) medicine is close to 100% bullshit; I'd say regular, tested, scientifically proven for efficacy, western medicine is around 1% bullshit.
But go ahead and drink some homoeopathic medicine should you get cancer.
Or even better, pray to your god... hahahaha. Remember, he promises it will work: Matthew 18:19,20.
I think I can already deduce the answer from what you've replied: You'd turn your sorry ass to that which have been proven to work: modern, western medicine.
If not cancer, then what about hereditary arthritis? Still want to go with a prayer and a what is essentially a cup of water, or with modern, western medicine?
So get off your low horse, understand the science behind the meds and get on with your life.
With those four words (doesn't is a contraction of 'does not') we know clearly that you do not feel responsible for your own activities or actions. Regardless that information about common causal links of particular classes of food and other toxins that a person is likely or liable to have been exposed to that lead to cancer is nearly cost-free to obtain. You still wanna hold the security blanket of government must mandate care for all. Pitifully dependent.
The Public Option is Not DEAD. 3 out of 4 bills being considered include the public option. Now is not the time to retreat now is the time to turn up the heat and apply pressure. Call and Demand thhey use the RECONCILIATION OPTION! If you need the numbers you can find them on my profile. You will also find several other resources in the comment section that will help you become more active. Together we CAN do this!
After voting as a bloc to support Joe Wilson's right to not apologize for calling the President a liar during a joint address to congress, it's pretty rich for them to turn around and demand an apology from this guy.
His choice of language perhaps not helpful...but insurance is an industry that profits from denying care to the suffering, and people die while the GOP blocks reform of this predatory industry.
(sarcastically saying) yup being a repub. i sure dont understand (ends sarcasim) , but seriously dude if you think this guy did the right thing and shouldnt be punish, but wilson didnt do the right thing and should be punished, then your a hypocrite
aslo i am sorry to have not put this in my lost comment, i put the sarcastically saying because i was not sure if you were smart enought to understand since you a dem.
Grayson says GOP does not have an alternative plan, but in fact is focused defeating any type of Dem-led reform. Meanwhile, people who don't have access to health care are dying. That's essentially a true statement.
Wilson yelled "You lie!" after the president said legislation does not apply to illegal immigrants, A fact-check of the bill showed the president was not lying.
One's doing "the right thing" and telling the truth; the other's not doing the right thing by trying to hide it.
I think you inverted your order there sir, ignoring the turth and forgeting the falsehoods. anyone who pays attention to only one side of your body politick misses the point.
Was Wilson did was unprecedented, where as what Grayson did was no less (and hear me out, I agree it was distasteful, especially the use of the word holocaust) worse than when Rep. Fox (R) said "Dem health care will put old people to death", when countless Republicans said there were "Death Panels", or when all many other Republicans said their own lies about how people will die because of reform. People die now, which is a fact, because of no care.
wow just wow, when grayson says this and the now famous "Republicans want you to die quickly", everybody loves it, but when Joe Wilson says you lie, it bad and horrbile and they demand an apology.
I soryr but this guy needs to apologies to the republicans, this guy shouldnt even be in his position in he is like this.
The notion of absolute morals is inherently immoral.
Which standard do we use to judge by? The wicked God of the old testament, or the defeatist God of the new? Yours or mine?
Morals are relative to each other, killing vs. lying.
An amoral act can easily be flipped around and become moral: Lying to save an innocent person from his lynch mob, is the morally correct thing to do. To tell the truth here becomes immoral.
Feel free to present some valid arguments for your assertion.
What, you still don't understand what a false dichotomy is?
When you offer two choices as if they are the only two choices available. What you did was pose a question, a series of questions each a false dichotomy in it's own right, then offer up a choice of two and only two options. An assumption is forced upon the respondent to accept these choices and these alone though there are numerous other choices as well as choices that address wider issues than the narrow view presented.
Are you ever going to establish an argument for your assertion that morals are absolute, or I am I going to read more of this irrelevant, obfuscating drivel?
yes, what an apt comparison Mr. Grayson (you lost your representative title just now). The holocaust, the genocide of jews, gypsies, blacks, and gays by nazi germany, is an apt comparison when talking about the health care crisis. Way to not fall into that pit of sensationalism your party has been so keen to fight against from the republicans.
I never said they didn't compare Obama to HItler. They do. I was saying that the democrats complained about that. And then here is a democrat comparing the health care crisis to the Holocaust. I'm saying that those two things are non-comparable. In any circumstances. Especially ones where the person saying it complained of sensationalist tactics by his opponents. You can say that the health care crisis is terrible, but you can't say it is even close to the holocaust because it isn't.
The only difference being that 6 million people died in the Holocaust. If the healthcare system isnt rectified then the same amount of people will die over time in the interest of profit. I would say thats pretty close to a Holocaust wouldnt you.
Fair enough. But he didn't directly attack the congressman. He compared a situation, the health care dilemma, to the holocaust. Anything compared to the holocaust is, of course, over the top. But to say Obama is Hitler is on a level all it's own. This doesn't come near it. Corruption comes from both sides but true hate comes from the Religious Right.
he does. but he knows that in america, 'holocaust' is much more pejorative. Comparing your opponent to nazis always gets the attention of the press and americans.
Sadly, genocide does not have the same ring to it.
Rep. Grayson has got to learn, 'Holocaust' is supposed to be the Chosen Ones' special word for their very special genocide which they love so dearly and still talk about at every opportunity.
most of today's major pharmaceutical companies profited immensely during the holocaust.. it's all connected, and mr. grayson's words are truer than you people know.
Are we really comparing a flawed healthcare system to the methodical and systematic elimination, imprisonment, and murder of well over 6 million people? Is the current healthcare system in the US bad? Absolutely. Undoubtedly. We need a public option. We need SERIOUS reform.
But, who would you rather be right now? One of the 45 million uninsured Americans, or one of the 6 million Jews in concentration camps in the 40s? I can't believe I even need to ask this question.
Do you doubt that there's a method keeping healthcare from people? I see how it's an unfair comparison but at the same time, you can't deny that there are people actively preventing healthcare (not the same as killing them?).
There is a method for keeping people from getting healthcare, yes. And I think it's reprehensible and an indictment of the American political system.
But, again, comparing it in any way to people being starved to death and stuck into furnaces at the rate of hundreds of thousands per year is as insane as it is inane. The situation is bad, but we shouldn't compare what the Republicans are doing to what Hitler did.
We'd be no better than Glenn Beck at that point. Let's find another way.
How are uninsured people dieing in America? I really, honestly would like to know. It doesn't seem like reality to me. If you can prove otherwise, I am all ears. :) thank you.
Let me help you. Say you don't have insurance. That means:
No checkups
No preventive care
No chances of doctors seeing early signs of ANYTHING because you aren't seeing any doctors.
Now the only time u go to a hostpital is an emergency, you catch a heart attack(god forbid) it may already be too late. With getting regular checkups and seeing a doctor you could have discovered an irregular heartbeat and got it looked at before it gotworse over time. No Insurance lead to your demise. It's sad..
Every economic indicator and economist on earth disagree with the idea that preventative care doesn't make cents.
You found the one point that the most extreme sides of the health care debate absolutely agree on... and you managed to disagree with it. Good job. I hope you have that slogan on a sign already for your next teabagger party.
Actually, if everyone used insurance to pay for regular check ups, it would end up costing much more. I don't know where you got this idea from: "Every economic indicator and economist on earth disagree with the idea that preventative care doesn't make cents." but it is absolutely false. That simply doesn't add up. . Without symptoms, doctors can't correctly diagnose anything. What they would have to do is run many, many tests to try and figure out if there is something wrong with you.
More tests mean more doctors time and supplies, which equals more money. And if nothing is wrong with you, all that money is wasted. Sounds dumb to me.
Again, I don't think anyone agrees that preventative care is cheaper. I bet they all say it is more expensive. That is why we can't afford the new health care bills.
Yes you're right. Doing some tests on someone that presents with symptoms of a disease that could be worsening is way more expensive than just waiting till they get very sick and have to be put in hospice care with horrible quality of life for months or years until they die as opposed to getting that TERRIBLY EXPENSIVE preventitive care that makes people not be able to afford healthcare.
You're so smart, you should be on the senate finance committee.
You might still be "speachless", but just to put it out there, earlier in thisbit he quoted two different studies that said that 44,000 americans die each year who would still be alive if they had health insurance. Approximately 6,000,000 died in the WWII holocaust in europe. By that standard, about 40 more years and americans dead would surpass the number.
But, the way he used it, the word "holocaust"" just means death of a lot of people.
I dunno the methodology for figuring out who dies bc they dont have health care, I just know that in this speech Greyson referenced a study that was used by republicans and then another study that independantly confirmed the number. I'm not really sure how they figure it out, it seems like it woudl be difficult.
I know people who did not have insurance so they couldn't go to a doctor and get the lump in their breast checked out. Those that had a raspy cough for years and didn't have insurance so they didnt know they were dying. Women who planned to just show up at the ER to give birth with no prenatal care and then died on the table, along with the baby.
No insurance means no health CARE... showing up at the hospital is for emergencies, not for health MAINTENANCE and early diagnosis.
Are you listening to yourself? "No insurance means no health CARE"???????
Since when? Why would anybody pay $180 a month in insurance to pay for a $50 doctor visit? A raspy cough? Go to the doctors office and have it looked at! They can give you a prescription for it.(the doctor visit and the average prescription cost is less than one month payment into a preventative health plan.) If a woman decides not to get regular check ups while pregnant, she is a fool. Doctor visits are inexpensive.
Raspy coughs are not bankrupting people. People don't pay $180 a month for a raspy cough. They pay it for cancer, for catastrophic accidents, major operations.
Getting regular health CARE and not just showing up at the ER when the problem is too big to treat economically is what should be the goal of everyone that has a body.
And I wouldn't call people fools for not going to the doctor if they simply can't afford it. I'd call them uninsured or underinsured.
Anyone who can not afford to go to the doctor can get medicaid. I don't feel sorry for those with credit card payments because they bought TVs, cars, and other unnecessary things in stead of insurance. If they weren't being smart with their money then, why should everyone else pay for their health care now?
That's right buddy, the jews were monitored by German GOVERMENT doctors and you want what happened to the jews to happen to all Americans? Governemnt doctors gettimg involved in death care? Millions die...wake up dork face. Vote GOP every step of the way. Glenn Beck is a ghod.
This guy seems kind of extreme, but really-this is what the democratic party needs more of: bold, unapologetic progressives who won't hesitate to play the fear & smear game that republicans play-especially when too many Americans are too stupid to be told the truth.
First, the united states is a republic meaning majority and minority mean NOTHING
also, what you ppl dont seem to understand is that even though we have to pay for health care, our health care is WAY better then counties with free health care. Take the case of natasha richarson for example, she got a small head injury in CANADA,which has free health care, and died because the hospital didnt specilize in head injuries. Here, all our hospitals specialize in everything. be informed b4 u post
Mitchattack4 1 year ago
@Mitchattack4 'We people' understand that point; however, in America, if she didn't have health insurance, she would've died because the hospital didn't do head injury work for charity. Which is worse?
griffinpage 1 year ago
anyone here not on the side of the people who want to save lives, and save money for the american people i.e. republicans..
you can all kiss my ass, your the minority - watch us make the country better.
restlys 2 years ago
This guy is an alarmist trying to scare people into supporting this
Jacobrester 2 years ago
Grayson is a dumbshit nobody representative....(that will lose his seat in 2010 by the way) never done nothing, not even spoken to the topic until now....
Someone put up money through the DNC and said anyone that goes out and makes a fool of themselves gets funding for 2010...
Most of the dumocrats balked at the 'easy money' but Grayson is too dumb to realize coming out boldly for something the majority of voters are against is not wise no matter how much campaign money you get... so what.
ASentinel2 2 years ago
The majority is not against....Republicans lie for status qoute and stupidity prevails because that is the basis of your consensus...Republicans just know how stupid and fickle most people in America are and use it to do their evil! Doesn't matter, I will sponsor at least 2 more liberal Americans to save them from certain death from your neo-nazi sanctuary...If I can save at least 2 more, that's something! Now Republicans think: "if I could kill at least a few more, then that's abonus!"..Scums!
Sadier888 2 years ago
I dunno...let's see, even the msnbc polls show a 51% opposed to government health care to 47% pro with a few % undecided...that's not a majority though to Sadier888. And that's without even knowing the worst of the plan and the REAL cost of it....it gets worse from here...
LOL
ASentinel2 2 years ago
euhm there isnt a single poll thats against the reform / public option? except mb what fox news is saying...but ive had a college class in research methods gimme those polls ill deal with them between two naps.
restlys 2 years ago
Madronas, people like you are what's wrong with this country. A sixth of a nation's economy shouldn't be based on making a profit off of sick and dying people. Just like last autumn proved a third of nation's economy can't be based off of selling paper and coming up with crazy math equations to reap a profit.
Continue to let the corporations rape the American working and middle class and they're won't be any money left for you bloodsuckers to drain from them.
My health is NOT for sale.
route99 2 years ago
*should be there not they're.
route99 2 years ago
Medicine is an industry like any other. Doctors and facility owners operate their business the way they want. Government interference in private business enterprise is wrong.
TheMadronas 2 years ago
Bullshit. 45 million people cannot afford health care and are uninsured. Hospitals literaly throw people out on the streets if they dont have "coverage". And people think that a universal health care plan is the first step to socialism? What about England's NHS? or France? They're system is for EVERYONE and virtually free. They only pay about 10 bucks for perscriptions of any kind. THATS IT. No cost for x rays, casts, MRI's. Bottom line, our health care system is based on greed. Period.
Snakepit4321 2 years ago
I sponsored two artists from America, one was a very talented but ill man with bipolar disorder, who had survided one suicide attempt after going bankrupt from deregulated drug costs. His art reflecting his hatred for America became a hit in France and now they live happy lives under our French system...I remember when they were first received by our government, they burst into tears and to this day refuse to go back. The American system is a holocaust...It's simply evil and must be dismantled!
Sadier888 2 years ago
I couldnt agree more. Im from California and I wish that I lived in France or England. They care about the people. Not profit from the sick and dying. Im a musician so i understand your artist's hate towards america. I have written a few songs about america and its different subjects. My father is a quadrapelegic and my mother lost her leg to cancer. Luckily are insurance payed for my dad's visits to the hospital and didnt deny him. We would be in real trouble otherwise..
Snakepit4321 2 years ago
@Snakepit4321
I totally agree! Great post.
AudiophileTubes 2 years ago
That's the point, it's an industry like any other and doctors can not actually operate their businesses. They are hindered by the efforts of the insurance industry to cut off coverage and thus limit the amount of care they the doctors provide. Now if the doctors counsulting with the patients decided who gets what care, you'd have a sensible free market competition between the doctors that would improve the overall care.
Polytical 2 years ago
Pelosi needs to inform Grayson that all of this racist, "heated rhetoric" could lead to violence.......
egginanest 2 years ago
"racist", wtf?
Aaberg123 2 years ago
GOD BLESS OBAMA
512thewiseowl 2 years ago
Grayson is an ass.
Want to see a real holocaust - look at cancer survival rates in Canada and the U.K.
Women with breast cancer in Britain have a 46% chance of d y i n g from it. In the U.S. a 25% chance. A man with prostate cancer, has a 57% chance of d y i n g from it in the U.K. 42% in Canada vs only 19% in the U.S.
razumfrackle 2 years ago
Source?
Aaberg123 2 years ago
Real talk... It is a holocaust when rich politicians and corporations conspire to let people die
borat443 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Rachel sure did have a BIG problem with Grayson's use of a word...
She sounded just like an AIPAC Neocon "dishing out the punishment"
Honesty compassion intelligence guts?
We have an ongoing American Holocaust.
Do you still want to believe what they told you about 9/11?
The guilty are busy importing private mercenaries to hide behind.
ryanshaunkelly 2 years ago
People die everyday by themselves, you do not compare natural deaths to FUCKING MURDER.
THAT IS PLAYING DOWN THE ACTUAL EVENT THAT OCCURED.
Hey, I'm going to compare people dying naturally every year to hitler killing millions of jews.. Yeah.. because you can do that.
RoseSkye 2 years ago
I agree with you to a degree, but these deaths in america aren't "natural deaths" by any means. They are due to negligence on behalf of our government and healthcare system. we're leaving them out there to die. It isn't equal to murder, but it is inaction, and people are dying b/c of it.
aznfootwork 2 years ago
Reductio ad Hitlerum...
Very distasteful!!
Joddit 2 years ago
Holocaust is an ancient greek word, ignorant people should stop acting like it was invented just for the shoah.
"all-burning" is what it means.
ZejithThemis 2 years ago
Don't call me ignorant!!
I know ancient Greek... I had to read Plato in Greek for my high school finals for crying out loud, so there's no reason to be smug!!
Don't start denying that the word itself has gotten intertwined with the meaning it got after World War II, because that, sir, would make you ignorant.
Joddit 2 years ago
Aaahhh...
so it's not plain ignorance it is willful.
subtle but key difference.
and no Joddit, I have no interest in any property you might like to interest me in that is located in the luxurious Florida Keys
maskedphrogg 2 years ago
You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
You didn't know how to respond elsewhere so you're going to try again here...
Joddit 2 years ago
I have little idea what you are replying to.
From the placement in the thread, which is no giveaway if you've ever attempted to follow threads the YT way, it appears you don't have a rebuttal for the replies poking you for defending the improper use of the word "holocaust."
maskedphrogg 2 years ago
improper use?? Learn some history... The politician in question has already admitted to using it in the same way I did...
You lose!! Goodbye!!
Joddit 2 years ago
Furthermore, it obvious from the context that this gentleman is in fact speaking in terms of the twentieth century meaning of the word holocaust.
Joddit 2 years ago
So, an all-burning destruction of american health care cannot be called as such because of the intertwining of meanings brought about in the last 60 years?
I suppose in a while we will not be able to use the term "calamity" because it translates to shoah?
No smugness here, not knowing the origin of a word is ignorance; and that's not an offense, it's an observation.
And to blindly accept newspeak programming is to be an accessory.
ZejithThemis 2 years ago
How much of western medicine is absolute bull shit ?
How can you "fund" "free" healthcare the counterfeiting thang is starting to fail.
boots920 2 years ago
Seeing as how alternative (which is only "alternative" because it has no proven effect) medicine is close to 100% bullshit; I'd say regular, tested, scientifically proven for efficacy, western medicine is around 1% bullshit.
But go ahead and drink some homoeopathic medicine should you get cancer.
Or even better, pray to your god... hahahaha. Remember, he promises it will work: Matthew 18:19,20.
Aaberg123 2 years ago
How about Flu Shots ?
Never proven effective ?
Look at the screw up in 1976 40 million people got the shot, 0 benefit.
"A majority of drugs have never been tested properly.
scientifically proven for efficacy"
- more die from perscription drugs that illegal drugs.
Who knows how much damage these drug cocktails cause.
boots920 2 years ago
So which would you rely on for treatment of possible cancer?
1)Radiotherapy along with chemotherapy (depending on type of cancer, obviously)?
2) Alternative medicine, with no proven effect?
3) Praying to the god of your choice?
Imagine the situation, and please answer honestly.
Aaberg123 2 years ago
I hear the vitamin B17 is effective as a preventative measure.
You might want to find out what's causing the cancer in the first place ? Environment , flu shots ?
What's the survival rate on cancer ?
Western Medicine for accident care - makes sense
Western Medicine for disease care - doesn't work and is too costly.
Could all that processed food, sugar drinks and flu shots be causing the cancer ?
boots920 2 years ago
It doesn't matter.
Where would you turn should you get cancer?
I think I can already deduce the answer from what you've replied: You'd turn your sorry ass to that which have been proven to work: modern, western medicine.
If not cancer, then what about hereditary arthritis? Still want to go with a prayer and a what is essentially a cup of water, or with modern, western medicine?
So get off your low horse, understand the science behind the meds and get on with your life.
Aaberg123 2 years ago
@Aaberg###
"It doesn't matter."
With those four words (doesn't is a contraction of 'does not') we know clearly that you do not feel responsible for your own activities or actions. Regardless that information about common causal links of particular classes of food and other toxins that a person is likely or liable to have been exposed to that lead to cancer is nearly cost-free to obtain. You still wanna hold the security blanket of government must mandate care for all. Pitifully dependent.
maskedphrogg 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Public Option is Not DEAD. 3 out of 4 bills being considered include the public option. Now is not the time to retreat now is the time to turn up the heat and apply pressure. Call and Demand thhey use the RECONCILIATION OPTION! If you need the numbers you can find them on my profile. You will also find several other resources in the comment section that will help you become more active. Together we CAN do this!
Smartassawhip 2 years ago
After voting as a bloc to support Joe Wilson's right to not apologize for calling the President a liar during a joint address to congress, it's pretty rich for them to turn around and demand an apology from this guy.
His choice of language perhaps not helpful...but insurance is an industry that profits from denying care to the suffering, and people die while the GOP blocks reform of this predatory industry.
So inartfully said, yes....but also, 100% true.
GretchenDawntreader 2 years ago
Grandstanding is useless on both sides of the aisle, Rep. Grayson.
bernlin2000 2 years ago
I'm glad there's a democrat who's willing to play by republican rules.
kelseywall 2 years ago 5
(sarcastically saying) yup being a repub. i sure dont understand (ends sarcasim) , but seriously dude if you think this guy did the right thing and shouldnt be punish, but wilson didnt do the right thing and should be punished, then your a hypocrite
Supermegaman737 2 years ago
aslo i am sorry to have not put this in my lost comment, i put the sarcastically saying because i was not sure if you were smart enought to understand since you a dem.
Supermegaman737 2 years ago
Grayson says GOP does not have an alternative plan, but in fact is focused defeating any type of Dem-led reform. Meanwhile, people who don't have access to health care are dying. That's essentially a true statement.
Wilson yelled "You lie!" after the president said legislation does not apply to illegal immigrants, A fact-check of the bill showed the president was not lying.
One's doing "the right thing" and telling the truth; the other's not doing the right thing by trying to hide it.
PeerlessPaavo 2 years ago 2
selective memory americano
LeGioNoFZioN 2 years ago
Guilty as charged, amiguito. Tienes razon.
I choose to remember that which is true and forget that which is not.
PeerlessPaavo 2 years ago
I think you inverted your order there sir, ignoring the turth and forgeting the falsehoods. anyone who pays attention to only one side of your body politick misses the point.
LeGioNoFZioN 2 years ago
No, there's no equivalency sir.
Was Wilson did was unprecedented, where as what Grayson did was no less (and hear me out, I agree it was distasteful, especially the use of the word holocaust) worse than when Rep. Fox (R) said "Dem health care will put old people to death", when countless Republicans said there were "Death Panels", or when all many other Republicans said their own lies about how people will die because of reform. People die now, which is a fact, because of no care.
Deweydecible 2 years ago 2
why is the use of a word that equivalates to "tabula rasa" distasteful?
it's greek for "all-burning", and it's quite ancient; even from before them nazi folk!
there is a fantastic double standard to the history of the shoah....
we should always remember it to honor those who suffered and grant their heirs every allowance imaginable...
but we should never mention it in any other circumstance or call anything else since then a tragedy or a razing of any sort.
total BS.
ZejithThemis 2 years ago
wow just wow, when grayson says this and the now famous "Republicans want you to die quickly", everybody loves it, but when Joe Wilson says you lie, it bad and horrbile and they demand an apology.
I soryr but this guy needs to apologies to the republicans, this guy shouldnt even be in his position in he is like this.
Supermegaman737 2 years ago
GO GRAYSON GO GRAYSON
howhow881 2 years ago
REALLY?!? REALLY!!! HOLOCAUST?! REALLY?
Fucking batshit congressmen.
RoseSkye 2 years ago
If Alan Grayson wants to talk about a comparative holocaust, what about the 1.2 million babies that were aborted in 2008? That's the REAL holocaust!
If you're pro-life, visit my channel for a song you may like.
ReaganitesMusic 2 years ago
Holocaust means burnt offering scholars
PersonalJesus348 2 years ago
Modern connotations apply, numb nuts :P
Aaberg123 2 years ago
Sure, let's change the meaning of words to fit our use of them instead of using the intended meaning.
Nothing quite like the marriage of relativism with morality.
maskedphrogg 2 years ago
The colloquial understanding of the word "Holocaust" is "Genocide".
So don't be so pedantic.
Aaberg123 2 years ago
On a sidenote, do you really believe in absolute morality? Really?!
Aaberg123 2 years ago
Without absolutes we exist at the whim of others and do so willingly.
The very notion that morals can be relative is immoral.
btw part of the formal meaning of the term colloquial (a word I enjoy using from time to time) is to be unacceptably informal
yeah, you hit a sweet spot :)
to be pedantic is to be correct :-P
maskedphrogg 2 years ago
The notion of absolute morals is inherently immoral.
Which standard do we use to judge by? The wicked God of the old testament, or the defeatist God of the new? Yours or mine?
Morals are relative to each other, killing vs. lying.
An amoral act can easily be flipped around and become moral: Lying to save an innocent person from his lynch mob, is the morally correct thing to do. To tell the truth here becomes immoral.
Feel free to present some valid arguments for your assertion.
Aaberg123 2 years ago
Which false dichotomy shall I counter first?
When you begin with invalid assumptions, whether intentional or not, you will reap untenable conclusions.
Is it wrong to kill, yes.
Is it wrong to lie, yes.
I fail to see the conflict.
If a man is lynched by a group I do not belong to and actively oppose how is responsibility laid at my feet?
You are still twisting words away from intended meaning. No wonder you are confused by issues of morality. You have yet to conquer issues of logic.
maskedphrogg 2 years ago
You have yet to establish why you assert that morals are absolute.
You last post was a nothing by words devoid of explanatory power and conveyed nothing to support your argument.
Aaberg123 2 years ago
Well you did bring a smile to my face,
and with that I rest my case.
It would be unkind to bait you into demeaning yourself further.
Free Clue
wikipedia-org wiki/False_dichotomy
maskedphrogg 2 years ago
Ahh, the "I don't have a valid argument, so instead I'll insult you" move. How clever.
Well, when you don't have anything of meaning and value to convey, one can always fall back and use personal attacks.
How showing of wit, integrity and class. Well done.
Aaberg123 2 years ago
What, you still don't understand what a false dichotomy is?
When you offer two choices as if they are the only two choices available. What you did was pose a question, a series of questions each a false dichotomy in it's own right, then offer up a choice of two and only two options. An assumption is forced upon the respondent to accept these choices and these alone though there are numerous other choices as well as choices that address wider issues than the narrow view presented.
maskedphrogg 2 years ago
Are you ever going to establish an argument for your assertion that morals are absolute, or I am I going to read more of this irrelevant, obfuscating drivel?
Aaberg123 2 years ago
holocaust sounds like a bit much, but Grayson's certainly right about caring for people after they're born.
novazembla 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This guy is a class A idiot. It is embarrassing that this guy could even get elected.
jahguy7 2 years ago
yes, what an apt comparison Mr. Grayson (you lost your representative title just now). The holocaust, the genocide of jews, gypsies, blacks, and gays by nazi germany, is an apt comparison when talking about the health care crisis. Way to not fall into that pit of sensationalism your party has been so keen to fight against from the republicans.
jakehr3 2 years ago
Yeah, because the right-wing nutballs don't compare Obama to Hitler...right?
charlie44441 2 years ago 2
I never said they didn't compare Obama to HItler. They do. I was saying that the democrats complained about that. And then here is a democrat comparing the health care crisis to the Holocaust. I'm saying that those two things are non-comparable. In any circumstances. Especially ones where the person saying it complained of sensationalist tactics by his opponents. You can say that the health care crisis is terrible, but you can't say it is even close to the holocaust because it isn't.
jakehr3 2 years ago
The only difference being that 6 million people died in the Holocaust. If the healthcare system isnt rectified then the same amount of people will die over time in the interest of profit. I would say thats pretty close to a Holocaust wouldnt you.
quadfunk 2 years ago
He's calling it "a holocaust" not "the holocaust".
See the difference?
DrVital 2 years ago
Yes, Exactly. So many want to start wars with words. Alan was within good diction in his description.
askmeif 2 years ago
Fair enough. But he didn't directly attack the congressman. He compared a situation, the health care dilemma, to the holocaust. Anything compared to the holocaust is, of course, over the top. But to say Obama is Hitler is on a level all it's own. This doesn't come near it. Corruption comes from both sides but true hate comes from the Religious Right.
charlie44441 2 years ago
not "THE Holocaust" . he said "this holocaust" its a real word with meaning.
askmeif 2 years ago
its more like genocide but this guy doesn't really know the difference...
ipxzor 2 years ago
he does. but he knows that in america, 'holocaust' is much more pejorative. Comparing your opponent to nazis always gets the attention of the press and americans.
Sadly, genocide does not have the same ring to it.
sennapods 2 years ago
great line. we should care about people after they are born too.
copcorona 2 years ago 2
Grayson is on a roll! What will he say next?
dennist3hmenace 2 years ago
A holocaust blanket was used in the Princess Bride.
cagedtigersteve 2 years ago
there was no holocaust
WKaliberr 2 years ago
Rep. Grayson has got to learn, 'Holocaust' is supposed to be the Chosen Ones' special word for their very special genocide which they love so dearly and still talk about at every opportunity.
SubmarinerAndroid 2 years ago
he's right about the gop, I wouldn't have used the word "holocaust" but otherwise he's right on target
KataVideo 2 years ago
dont be distracted-
we need health care reform now.
SamariaTV 2 years ago 3
its true insurance are making money off the sick by not paying people their benefits and stealing healthy peoples money it is a holocaust
doink1422 2 years ago 2
Terrible choice of words.
theastrusmega 2 years ago
What word did you not like?
slimydick23 2 years ago
yea bad comparison, no question. he should have picked a less charged word, but he wanted a loaded term :p
cpricejones 2 years ago
Oh hey look! Another retard evoking completely incomparable situations to advance his political agenda! Love the integrity <3
njcarlos1 2 years ago
Look up the word "holocaust"... he's using it correctly. You can love his integrity, I'll love his grasp of the english language.
slimydick23 2 years ago
It is a holocaust. It's sickening it's being ignored and defended.
themarycity 2 years ago 5
the most disgraceful genocide i know of was the 'american holocaust' against the natives.
today's slow death by cultural-assimilation, pollution, mal-nutrition and stress under a police state doesn't quite compare.
congress! stop subsidizing corn and free our political prisoners! FREE Leonard Peltier! LEGALIZE freedom!
GeoliphicMedia 2 years ago
most of today's major pharmaceutical companies profited immensely during the holocaust.. it's all connected, and mr. grayson's words are truer than you people know.
SensoryOssuary 2 years ago 3
You go robin, stand up against the holocaust.
squidb8 2 years ago
So the SS are the stock holders of United Health?
So who are the Nazis and gullible Germans?
franknyt 2 years ago 2
Are we really comparing a flawed healthcare system to the methodical and systematic elimination, imprisonment, and murder of well over 6 million people? Is the current healthcare system in the US bad? Absolutely. Undoubtedly. We need a public option. We need SERIOUS reform.
But, who would you rather be right now? One of the 45 million uninsured Americans, or one of the 6 million Jews in concentration camps in the 40s? I can't believe I even need to ask this question.
bhbs 2 years ago
Do you doubt that there's a method keeping healthcare from people? I see how it's an unfair comparison but at the same time, you can't deny that there are people actively preventing healthcare (not the same as killing them?).
rascalrascal 2 years ago
There is a method for keeping people from getting healthcare, yes. And I think it's reprehensible and an indictment of the American political system.
But, again, comparing it in any way to people being starved to death and stuck into furnaces at the rate of hundreds of thousands per year is as insane as it is inane. The situation is bad, but we shouldn't compare what the Republicans are doing to what Hitler did.
We'd be no better than Glenn Beck at that point. Let's find another way.
bhbs 2 years ago
the slaughter of the jews was not 'the holocaust' ... what happened under the nazi was 'a holocaust'
GeoliphicMedia 2 years ago 2
How are uninsured people dieing in America? I really, honestly would like to know. It doesn't seem like reality to me. If you can prove otherwise, I am all ears. :) thank you.
Mauhadeeb28 2 years ago
Let me help you. Say you don't have insurance. That means:
No checkups
No preventive care
No chances of doctors seeing early signs of ANYTHING because you aren't seeing any doctors.
Now the only time u go to a hostpital is an emergency, you catch a heart attack(god forbid) it may already be too late. With getting regular checkups and seeing a doctor you could have discovered an irregular heartbeat and got it looked at before it gotworse over time. No Insurance lead to your demise. It's sad..
someperson111 2 years ago 2
Hmmmm, I have to completely disagree with you.
A. The average physical costs less than $25.
B. The average yearly check up costs around $50.
C. The best preventative care is a healthy diet and exercise.
D. The average payment for a 'preventative health care plan' is $92/month($42 more than the cost of the average yearly check up)
E. The average payment by an insurance company for a physical is $56( twice the amount of the out-of-pocket average)
Preventive insurance doesn't make cents...
Mauhadeeb28 2 years ago
Every economic indicator and economist on earth disagree with the idea that preventative care doesn't make cents.
You found the one point that the most extreme sides of the health care debate absolutely agree on... and you managed to disagree with it. Good job. I hope you have that slogan on a sign already for your next teabagger party.
slimydick23 2 years ago
Actually, if everyone used insurance to pay for regular check ups, it would end up costing much more. I don't know where you got this idea from: "Every economic indicator and economist on earth disagree with the idea that preventative care doesn't make cents." but it is absolutely false. That simply doesn't add up. . Without symptoms, doctors can't correctly diagnose anything. What they would have to do is run many, many tests to try and figure out if there is something wrong with you.
Mauhadeeb28 2 years ago
More tests mean more doctors time and supplies, which equals more money. And if nothing is wrong with you, all that money is wasted. Sounds dumb to me.
Again, I don't think anyone agrees that preventative care is cheaper. I bet they all say it is more expensive. That is why we can't afford the new health care bills.
Mauhadeeb28 2 years ago
Yes you're right. Doing some tests on someone that presents with symptoms of a disease that could be worsening is way more expensive than just waiting till they get very sick and have to be put in hospice care with horrible quality of life for months or years until they die as opposed to getting that TERRIBLY EXPENSIVE preventitive care that makes people not be able to afford healthcare.
You're so smart, you should be on the senate finance committee.
slimydick23 2 years ago
Exactly. I definitely would put forth a motion to prevent anymore slimy dicks.
Mauhadeeb28 2 years ago
There is no way that he just compared the lack of 'government health care' in America to the holocaust.....
I'm speachless......................
Mauhadeeb28 2 years ago
Speechless.
bhbs 2 years ago
You might still be "speachless", but just to put it out there, earlier in thisbit he quoted two different studies that said that 44,000 americans die each year who would still be alive if they had health insurance. Approximately 6,000,000 died in the WWII holocaust in europe. By that standard, about 40 more years and americans dead would surpass the number.
But, the way he used it, the word "holocaust"" just means death of a lot of people.
So pick your jaw up off the floor.
slimydick23 2 years ago
Um, how did you determine the number of deaths of folks without health care? Just curious. Is it honestly because they didn't have health care?
Mauhadeeb28 2 years ago
I dunno the methodology for figuring out who dies bc they dont have health care, I just know that in this speech Greyson referenced a study that was used by republicans and then another study that independantly confirmed the number. I'm not really sure how they figure it out, it seems like it woudl be difficult.
slimydick23 2 years ago
It is not a realistic number. Let me ask you this, do you know of anyone that went to a hospital with an emergency and was turned away?
Mauhadeeb28 2 years ago
I know people who did not have insurance so they couldn't go to a doctor and get the lump in their breast checked out. Those that had a raspy cough for years and didn't have insurance so they didnt know they were dying. Women who planned to just show up at the ER to give birth with no prenatal care and then died on the table, along with the baby.
No insurance means no health CARE... showing up at the hospital is for emergencies, not for health MAINTENANCE and early diagnosis.
slimydick23 2 years ago
Are you listening to yourself? "No insurance means no health CARE"???????
Since when? Why would anybody pay $180 a month in insurance to pay for a $50 doctor visit? A raspy cough? Go to the doctors office and have it looked at! They can give you a prescription for it.(the doctor visit and the average prescription cost is less than one month payment into a preventative health plan.) If a woman decides not to get regular check ups while pregnant, she is a fool. Doctor visits are inexpensive.
Mauhadeeb28 2 years ago
Raspy coughs are not bankrupting people. People don't pay $180 a month for a raspy cough. They pay it for cancer, for catastrophic accidents, major operations.
Getting regular health CARE and not just showing up at the ER when the problem is too big to treat economically is what should be the goal of everyone that has a body.
And I wouldn't call people fools for not going to the doctor if they simply can't afford it. I'd call them uninsured or underinsured.
slimydick23 2 years ago
Anyone who can not afford to go to the doctor can get medicaid. I don't feel sorry for those with credit card payments because they bought TVs, cars, and other unnecessary things in stead of insurance. If they weren't being smart with their money then, why should everyone else pay for their health care now?
Mauhadeeb28 2 years ago
true that.
holocaust just means "all-burning".
shoah (hb) means calamity, whereas any burnt sacrifice would be a(n) holocaust.
('cept for the BBQ ya eat. Holocaust of organs to Jove, sweet ribs for meh!)
people need ta stop jackin wurdz.
ZejithThemis 2 years ago
That's right buddy, the jews were monitored by German GOVERMENT doctors and you want what happened to the jews to happen to all Americans? Governemnt doctors gettimg involved in death care? Millions die...wake up dork face. Vote GOP every step of the way. Glenn Beck is a ghod.
leavepalinalone 2 years ago
You're kidding, right?
Mauhadeeb28 2 years ago
leavepalinalone, cut it out. The internet has enough crazies that you don't need to act like one for shock value. Grow up.
Mauhadeeb28 2 years ago
keep calling the repugs on their so-called "right to life" hypocritical bullshit. this guy is on the ball..thanks for hi-lighting him.
junkforkaryn 2 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Translation-
Change We Can't Believe In.
macks3123 2 years ago
One of the very Dems with stones...
Zakdayak 2 years ago 7
Two thumbs up Mr. Grayson
GreenEnergy2112 2 years ago 10
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Drama queen.
dbigboy161 2 years ago
This guy seems kind of extreme, but really-this is what the democratic party needs more of: bold, unapologetic progressives who won't hesitate to play the fear & smear game that republicans play-especially when too many Americans are too stupid to be told the truth.
zndprophet 2 years ago 10
YES, I think this guy is really on the ball here. Someone needed to step up and get in the spotlight on the Dem's side.
Too bad it had to be a Freshman Rep from a red state but the hell with it! GET EM!
dutchhaze1 2 years ago 13