@CBALLEN Ask our Eastern Rite churches about Purgatory if you think it is made up. Explain to me 1 Corinthians 3 and the Gospel of Saint Matthew (18:34)? How much the bible cost during the time of the Reformation? It cost 3 years salary. How many people could read during the Reformations?10%. Do you know what happened to the early protestants when the missed a sermon by Calvin? They got fined. Looks like Protestants were selling indulgences for those that missed the Pastors sermon.
I want to know why the protestant trust the scriptures which Martin Luther deemed as inspired, but do not hold his teachings on Purgatory? Martin Luther did believe in Purgatory initially but then later changed his believe like most protestants do. Especially when James White Church was founded in 1600s.
@SenorZacito Purgatory was an invention of the Roman church to make money off of indulgences sold to people that ignorantly believed the Roman church could pray them out of Purgatory,that's why having a real Bible would get you incinerated back then,the R.C.C. couldn't afford for anyone to kill their cash cow.
Jesus couldn't make it any more simpler and clear when he said, "And this is how the heavenly Father will treat each one of you unless you forgive your brother from the heart. Matt 18,35. In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. Matt 18:34. Well, you have to consider what Jesus meant, for instance, "What will the heavenly father do to us? When will the heavenly father do this? And how will the heavenly Father do this? & why will he?
@Coredeemer Hello friend. Christ died on the cross so we don't have to suffer the consequences of our sins. He paid the sin penalty in full on our behalf. Only those who don't accept His free gift of pardon will have no excuse.
Nice video, I watched James Whites sister Patty Bonds on "The Journey Home" and she seemed to be very knowledgeable about scripture and her conversion story really had an impact on me. I tend to be skeptical in general but she came across as sincerely seeking to do Gods will. Last year I went to James website and asked him 4 or 5 questions which he never responded to. I have heard that people don't like to debate him because of his style. I have heard he isn't very charitable.
Purgatory is Satan's sick demonic lie, find out how, and why. /watch?v=L_XQQyuCHlE or ask yourself the question, what sins did the Lamb of God ,who actually takes Away the sins of the world ,not die for? 1 John 2;2
Jesus is not saying on this day u will b with in paradise. it's on this day, you will be in paradise. he is only saying he is saying the words 2day not the guy will be in paradise 2day. + the gates were not open 4 3 days.
How come Jesus tells us about heaven and hell, but forgets to tell us about purgatory? I think i'll stick with what Christ taught..over myths.....I've heard them all so don't try to tell me about, the pay to the last penny...White debates that with a priest and cleans the floor with him...or Abraham's bossom, it has nothing to do with purgatory either. Jesus nor any apostle never taught it, so it doesn't exist.
Trying to balance a debate? This sounds like the crooked "church" building of Ecumenisim. The balance will always favour Roman Catholicism although it is already a spiritually broked reed. Who cares what really the Bible say. People burning (up) in Purgatory, despite the fact the passage in 1 Cor. 3 says totally nothing about burning or purifying a person but his works ONLY! Shouldn't people love God more than their religions to accept the truth of God's word instead of their Church's?
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from youselves, it is the gift of God--NOT BY WORKS, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do " (Eph. 2:8,9).
All of this false religion which takes Christ 'down from the cross' and replaces His blood with purgatory, works etc. etc. It really is a shame. God doesn't need any favours.
1 cross + 3 nails = 4 given. This is what separates Christianity from all other beliefs.....the cross. If salvation was based upon our suffering then everyone on this planet is saved. "Bring Christ down from the cross! We've got a better way!"
The early church as described in the NT did the following: shared all things in common, relationships, support missionaries/ministers, teaching & preaching, praying, worshiping, reading of scripture, evangelism, fostering spiritual gifts. No where does the NT dictate fancy buildings, robes, repetitive prayer, a priesthood, Mary worship, sectarianism, or any order of service, etc.. all these are MAN MADE traditions ADDED ON.
Purgatory is a man-made money-making thing invented by the unbiblical rcc.Heb1:3 "When He had by Himself PURGED OUR SINS.".Rom8:1 "There is therefor now NO CONDEMNATION to them that are in Christ Jesus.". Psalms49:7 "None of them can redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.".Dont forget Prov10:12 which never mentions purgatory. Acts4:12"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
John 2:1-2 says, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
To say that purgatory is a necessary purification is to deny that the grace of God is sufficient. 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."
rotfl if purgatory exists then why Jesus said to the other man who was dying on the cross too something like this?
"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." [Luk 23:43]
PARADISE =/= purgatory, sorry :/ And this guy didn't look like a "good deeds" man so if he is going to PARADISE by FAITH then ppl that do "better" things surely won't go to something like purgatory :) true christians aren't afraid of any fire because they simply believe Jesus
@Dwinar7 - First, you assume that the man didn't go through Purgatory. Perhaps he did, and got into Paradise the same day. Or, he suffered the full penalty for his sins by crucifixion.
Second, Catholics aren't afraid of purgatory.
Third, you get to Paradise by faith, but also by works. People who do better still sin, and need purification.
Fourth, 1 Cor. 3:12-15 teaches purgatory. The sinner is saved, but his evil works are burned away after death before he enters heaven. That = purgatory.
@Dmar198 why am I assuming that this man went to paradise? Maybe I simply TRUST in what Jesus said? If He just simply said "you will be in paradise" I don't feel need to add anything to His words.
Anyway this debate won't make me a better christian because it's plain theory that has no affect on real, daily life. That's the problem of catholics that I met: too much talking, no practice. Focus on sacraments that didn't help me to find God and peace. I need to get back to Bible. Search continues.
@Dwinar7 - You are assuming he didn't go through purgatory, on the basis that he went to Paradise. Reality check: there's no incompatibility there. He can do both.
And this debate ought to make you a better Christian at least by helping you accept the WHOLE of divine revelation. Knowing that the Trinity is true is similar to knowing that Purgatory is true; it might not affect your outward actions, but at least your inner disposition is better off for accepting what God has revealed.
@Dmar198 How to DEBUNK the CATHOLIC CHURCH on PURGATORY
Jesus who is God told John what happens to Christian saints when they die?
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this down: Blessed are those who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they are blessed indeed, FOR THEY WILL REST from their hard work; for their GOOD DEEDS follow them!”
FYI..that's GOOD DEEDS done while the Christian saints are still living, not in Purgatory..LOL
Jesus also said "all sin can be forgiven except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, not in this world NOR THE WORLD TO COME".. Now, when we die, the 1st thing that happens is FINAL JUDGEMENT ---> heaven or hell, but Jesus said "nor th world to come" implying there still MAY BE "forgiveness" or "cleansing" IN THE WORLD TO COME AT THE TIME OF FINAL JUDGEMENT. 1Cor3:13-15
@Dmar198 Christ paid the penalty for ALL sins (past, present and future) on the cross. We have been washed clean by His blood. There is no other 'purification' needed. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast."
@Dmar198 If the thief on the cross went through "purgatory" in one day, then, as bad he was, I have to determine that, by comparison, most of the rest of us would be in "purgatory" for even less time; let's say, for the point of discussion, a rather brief afternoon. Which is only within this fictional context. If you wish to believe that you hover in vapor until you learn how to behave, then don't be at all surprised when anyone considers you to be an idiot for it.
@Dwinar7 1.We know for a FACT that Jesus didnt go to Heaven that day. 2. In the original Greek, there is no commas in that sentence, so it could have read something like this "Verily I say unto thee today, you shall be with me in paradice" Now, notice he could have been saying that he will at some time be with him in paradice. As we all know, Christ didnt go to Heaven when he was still on the cross, common sense.
@YeshuaisYahweh1 If the purgatory exist I will know about it after death, for now it has nothing to do with my life. Only people who think that Jesus' sacrifice was not enough or think they are more powerful than Jesus pray for dead because they think they can change something after death. Some even believe that wearing a scapular will grant heaven to them, they forgot that only Jesus can do this not an item. Pagans have talismans too.
@Dwinar7 Purgatory is in the Bible, and items do have powers like Moses' staff and lots of other in the Bible. And obviosoly you didnt watch this video or you would not be making those crazy arguments. Revelation says nothing unclean shall enter heaven. So you think if you die with veinal sin on you still, you can go straight to heaven??? If nothing unclean enters heaven, then we better have some ice and fans to last a long time. LoL!
@YeshuaisYahweh1 It was the God who had a power, staff was only a symbol. If scapular has a power of granting heaven then Jesus' sacrifice was useless. But back on the topic: I am not unclean :) Jesus took away my sins :) I am no longer under the Law - Gal 3:10-13 And look if you think that Jesus is too weak to take out ALL of sins of those who have trusted in Him and need purgatory, that's fine but for me it isn't logical. Jesus said on cross "it is finished" - so what more do you want?
@Dwinar7 You sound alot like this guy, "No sin will seperate us from the Lamb, even thow we commit murder and fornication 1000 times a day" Martin Luther.
If I repeat sins with premeditation and by my will it means I didn't met Jesus or I don't want Him therefore I don't want salvation. That is how I understand it.
Believing that scapular can grant heaven is the same as in cited by you Luther's words: I can do whatever I want because I'm wearing magic thing that will save me from hell.
Correct . Purgatory is real and solo fide does not exist. Luther while making his first translation took Revelations (which had suggestion of purgatory (Rev 21:27)) He took James out (Which had chapter 2:14-26 refuting solo fide )He took Jude and Hebrews out as well . Hebrews 10:26 tells is that if we sin deliberately after knowing the truth the sacrifice for sins is lost . He also took out the 7 books in the old Testament that argue solo fide . He added "Alone to Romans 3:28 )
@Dwinar7 actually if you read the bible . If you read Matthew 16 and 18 "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven . Then you would understand about the scapular .The approval to go ahead with that teaching came from Christ in Matthew 16 and 18.
@Dwinar7 The Bible says that nothing unclean can enter into heaven (Revelation 21:27). If sin still clings to Christians (Heb 12:1) then we must be purified. Read Mathew 5:23-25. It says to settle with your brother on the way to court or the judge with throw you in prison; it says you won't be released until you've paid the last penny. It cannot be hell because the damned are condemned for eternity. It's not heaven since heaven is not a prison. So there is a place or state to be purified.
@Dwinar7 I'll take you up on that challenge. Jesus said in (Mark 16:16) "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved" right?. But in (Acts 8:16) it says, "......for they had ONLY been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Jesus never mentions the laying on of hands." Yet in (Acts 8:16) it demonstrates that baptism alone is not sufficient. So if Jesus never said anything about the laying on of hands, if the gospels do not show him saying these words, does that make it untrue?.
@Dwinar7 Also, (Luke 12:57-59) and (Mathew 5:23-26) speak of a prison; A prison that one will eventually get out of once they have paid their debt in full. This is purgatory. We know it can't be hell, since once you're in hell it is for eternity, and heaven is not a prison. We know that a third place can exist besides heaven and hell because after Christ was crucified his Spirit went to preach to the spirits in prison (1 Peter3:19). Notice the word is prison in, like the verses I cited.
@Dwinar7 First of all, thee is NO TIME in heaven so when Jesus said this it wasn't based on our CLOCK..and Jesus did not ascend to Heaven right after he died on the cross, didn't He? So where was the Good Thief waiting for those 3 days and even after Jesus' Resurrection after 40 days? You base too much on Jesus' words but fail to understand God Doesn't work on your CLOCK and that Jesus did not enter Paradise right after Calvary. ;-)
@JDNWF66 If there is no time in Heaven then why would you quote in another reply that "for God one day is as a thousand years."? If there is no time, then there is no day, nor thousand years to compare it to.
@Dwinar7 I don't know about your theory, but the Thief on the cross defended Jesus telling them the Jesus was innocent, Basically said let him go, it also sounded like he made a public confession to Jesus and humbled himself before him. I don't know about you, but he put forth some effort in that, sounds like good works to me..Plus Jesus said it was OK.
@Dwinar7 Heb 12:14 - strive for that holiness without which cannot see GodJam 3:2 - we all fall short in many respects Rev 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven
Purgatory is a state of being after death. The anti-purgatory types declare one goes 'immediately' to heaven or hell after death yet they can't provide any scriptures to back it up.
Purgatory? check out 1 Corinth 3:15, 1 Peter 3:18-20; 4:6, 2 Tim 1:16-18, 1 Corinth 15:29-30. Amen!
James white ws handled and smashed by jimmy akin. James white looked like a wanna be debater as compared to someone who actually knows and can explain the catholic faith. James white does NOT understand the catholic teachings because of his anti catholic bias.
Ya that's Tim Staples for you. I went to three of his talks that my church hosted. Tim has some good thoughts, I guess. He however I advice not to ask questions about the faith to him because he will talk for litterly 30 min. about his own life or something else then answers the question in a one sentence response that hardly helps you. You'd be better off Google your answer.
Excellent analysis! Protestants are grasping air when debating with catholic apologists. I feel sorry for them: their whole purpose of existence is protesting against One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that Christ founded. Ironicaly, without it they wouldnt even exist nor would they have Bible, which is a book writen by catholics and for catholic. Funny how protestants are trying to turn a catholic book against their catholic authors!!
Purgatory is a man-made money-making thing invented by the unbiblical rcc.Heb1:3 "When He had by Himself PURGED OUR SINS.".Rom8:1 "There is therefor now NO CONDEMNATION to them that are in Christ Jesus.". Psalms49:7 "None of them can redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.".Dont forget Prov10:12 which never mentions purgatory. Acts4:12"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
@kiwichristian2009 - 1. Nobody is getting rich off of purgatory. If it's a money-making scheme, it's one of the stupidest ones invented. Second, Jesus does purge our sins, and the power DOES come from the Cross. There's no incompatibility between being purged by Christ here and being purged by Christ in purgatory. And as for Proverbs 10:12, you're right that it doesn't mention purgatory, but 1 Cor. 3:12-15 does. Proverbs 10 doesn't mention hell or angels, either, but those are still true things.
@Dmar198 in medieval times priests didn't say it is "the stupidest one" way to make money when they were selling indulgences to poor, cheated people which couldn't read the Bible themselves. Hm... that would explain perfectly the ban of Bible by the catholic church in 1229 year, oh and the year 1897 - "Index librorum prohibitorum". That's how the catholic church could "explain" their unbiblical and pagan believes just for controliling people and getting power.
@strongyang Traditions based from the bible . Eucharist (1Cor 10 and 11, John 6 ) Purgatory (1cor3:15,2Tim1:16-18,2Macc 12 Rev 21:27)Saint intercession(REv 5:8) etc .... visit my blog .CLick on my nae then the blog you will learn more .
@strongyang "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the TRADITIONS even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2). "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the TRADITIONS which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter." (2 Thess. 2:15)
@ultimouomo11 Rubbish! 1Cor11:2 "Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you." The correct word translation is "ordinances" ( baptism FOLLOWING salvation and the Lords Supper ( NOT the "mass", The Lords Supper ). 2Thess2:15 is talking about SCRIPTURAL traditions, not your catholic satanic man-made ones!
@kiwichristian2009 Matthew 18:32-35: Then his lord summoned him and said to him, `You wicked servant! I forgave you all that DEBT because you besought me; and should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?' And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, TIL HE SHOULD PAY ALL HIS DEBT. SO ALSO MY HEAVENLY FATHER WILL DO TO EVERY ONE OF YOU, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart. Matthew 5:25-26 as well.
@ultimouomo11 I take it you are talking about purgatory here. I have no idea WHERE on earth you get purgatory out of here! This is CLEARLY showing u that since God forgives our huge sins and debts, so much so should we forgive smaller sins/debts against us!!!!!!!!!!!
@dis00612 Because to say that purgatory is a necessary purification is to deny that the grace of God is sufficient. 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.". We are cleansed clean by His shed blood.
@dis00612 If purgatory is true then the 'catholic' Christ didn't accomplish anything on the cross, wasted his time and died for nothing. The 'catholic' Christ should have hired a pro instead of doing the job himself. The Christ of Christianity is the Pro. He got the job on the cross done right the first time. And.....He did it for free!
@kiwichristian2009 "Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and fill up on my part that which is lacking of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church.."(Colossians1:24)What St. Paul means is that many sufferings are still wanting and needed for the members of the Church to work out their salvation, which was all made possible by Christ’s sacrifice.No one would have to believe or do anything to be saved if Jesusmadeup for everythingeven future punishment
@dis00612 Yes, suffering in THIS life, while we are alive I suffer every day! Paul suffered. Don't misunderstand me, i am not comparing myself to an apostle i any way. I am a dirty, filthy sinner and i deserve hell and indeed have earned hell.
@dis00612 Hello friend. We suffer everyday because of this life and our Christian belief, but that has nothing to do with our salvation. Notice in Colossians 1:24 that Paul doesn't mention salvation. Christ paid the sin debt once and for all 2000 years ago. If He didn't then He has no power whatsoever. We can't earn salvation. Jesus doesn't need any favours.
@johnthreesixteen316 Philippians 2:12 "...work out your salvation with fear and trembling..." "If it were true that Jesus’ sacrifice made up for everything, including the future punishments due to every man’s sins, then no one would have to believe or do anything to be saved. Jesus’ sacrifice would have paid the price for it all. But even the non-Catholics who argue that Jesus made up for everything admit that not all men are saved. They admit that people must do something to be saved."
@dis00612 Hello friend. To 'work out' our salvation means to figure it out. We must decide in whom our salvation lies. We don't have to do any work. Christ did it all on the cross. "Eternal life is a free gift through faith, not works......"
@dis00612 Hello friend. We still have to believe of course. Not all are saved. We must accept Christ as our saviour. If it was based on suffering then Satan could be saved too.
@kiwichristian2009 Exactly! BUT.....what does Jesus say will happen to the servant if he doesn't forgive? The judge will throw him into prison until he pays all his debt. Christ says, "SO ALSO WILL MY FATHER DO TO YOU" (future tense). So he's saying what happened to the wicked servant will happen to me or you if we do not heed the lesson of the parable. The servant will eventually get out of prison, yet not until he has paid all his debt. How you can miss that part is a mystery to me?
It seems to me that Protestants will do anything they can to go around the truth and twist what we say just so they don't have to admit they are wrong.
Great points, great video! I agree completely that many protestants will admit to the concepts of purgatory using the passage in question.
I still have to say that Tim Staples made more sense in his debate and Tim Staples is a great doctrinal teacher coming from his past as an anticathoic to finding his way home.
@catchzz - I'm glad you thought so. It was a great debate. The case for purgatory is so strong that I don't see how a Bible-reading person can do anything other than accept it as one of the most Biblically-based doctrines in all Scripture.
@Dmar198 1.Because this is plainly meant of a figurative fire, not of a real one: for what real fire can consume religious rites or doctrines? 2.Because this fire is to try men's works, of what sort they are; but purgatory-fire is not for trial, not to bring men's actions to the test, but to punish for them. 3. This fire is to try every man's works, those of Paul and Apollos, as well as those of others. Now, no papists will have the front to say apostles must have passed through purgatory fires
@jbmize 1.The fire burns away heresies by igniting heretics until the impurity of heresy is gone. Look up the word synecdoche; that word explains why purgatory is said to burn sins when it really burns the sinner. And even if it was figurative fire, how does that prove it is not purgatory? 2.This fire both tests (v. 13) and punishes (v. 15). That makes it purgatorial. 3. The fire tests every man but only burns sinners (vv. 13-15). We do not say the testing is purgatorial, but the punishing is.
@CBALLEN Ask our Eastern Rite churches about Purgatory if you think it is made up. Explain to me 1 Corinthians 3 and the Gospel of Saint Matthew (18:34)? How much the bible cost during the time of the Reformation? It cost 3 years salary. How many people could read during the Reformations?10%. Do you know what happened to the early protestants when the missed a sermon by Calvin? They got fined. Looks like Protestants were selling indulgences for those that missed the Pastors sermon.
SenorZacito 3 days ago
I want to know why the protestant trust the scriptures which Martin Luther deemed as inspired, but do not hold his teachings on Purgatory? Martin Luther did believe in Purgatory initially but then later changed his believe like most protestants do. Especially when James White Church was founded in 1600s.
SenorZacito 1 week ago
@SenorZacito Purgatory was an invention of the Roman church to make money off of indulgences sold to people that ignorantly believed the Roman church could pray them out of Purgatory,that's why having a real Bible would get you incinerated back then,the R.C.C. couldn't afford for anyone to kill their cash cow.
CBALLEN 3 days ago
Jesus couldn't make it any more simpler and clear when he said, "And this is how the heavenly Father will treat each one of you unless you forgive your brother from the heart. Matt 18,35. In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. Matt 18:34. Well, you have to consider what Jesus meant, for instance, "What will the heavenly father do to us? When will the heavenly father do this? And how will the heavenly Father do this? & why will he?
Coredeemer 3 months ago
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@Coredeemer Hello friend. Christ died on the cross so we don't have to suffer the consequences of our sins. He paid the sin penalty in full on our behalf. Only those who don't accept His free gift of pardon will have no excuse.
johnthreesixteen316 3 months ago in playlist Liked videos
Nice video, I watched James Whites sister Patty Bonds on "The Journey Home" and she seemed to be very knowledgeable about scripture and her conversion story really had an impact on me. I tend to be skeptical in general but she came across as sincerely seeking to do Gods will. Last year I went to James website and asked him 4 or 5 questions which he never responded to. I have heard that people don't like to debate him because of his style. I have heard he isn't very charitable.
enya0301 4 months ago
Purgatory is Satan's sick demonic lie, find out how, and why. /watch?v=L_XQQyuCHlE or ask yourself the question, what sins did the Lamb of God ,who actually takes Away the sins of the world ,not die for? 1 John 2;2
MMr7777 5 months ago
Jesus is not saying on this day u will b with in paradise. it's on this day, you will be in paradise. he is only saying he is saying the words 2day not the guy will be in paradise 2day. + the gates were not open 4 3 days.
cannon0286 5 months ago
How come Jesus tells us about heaven and hell, but forgets to tell us about purgatory? I think i'll stick with what Christ taught..over myths.....I've heard them all so don't try to tell me about, the pay to the last penny...White debates that with a priest and cleans the floor with him...or Abraham's bossom, it has nothing to do with purgatory either. Jesus nor any apostle never taught it, so it doesn't exist.
shanana000 6 months ago
Trying to balance a debate? This sounds like the crooked "church" building of Ecumenisim. The balance will always favour Roman Catholicism although it is already a spiritually broked reed. Who cares what really the Bible say. People burning (up) in Purgatory, despite the fact the passage in 1 Cor. 3 says totally nothing about burning or purifying a person but his works ONLY! Shouldn't people love God more than their religions to accept the truth of God's word instead of their Church's?
bulyabalive 6 months ago
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from youselves, it is the gift of God--NOT BY WORKS, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do " (Eph. 2:8,9).
johnthreesixteen316 7 months ago
All of this false religion which takes Christ 'down from the cross' and replaces His blood with purgatory, works etc. etc. It really is a shame. God doesn't need any favours.
johnthreesixteen316 7 months ago
1 cross + 3 nails = 4 given. This is what separates Christianity from all other beliefs.....the cross. If salvation was based upon our suffering then everyone on this planet is saved. "Bring Christ down from the cross! We've got a better way!"
johnthreesixteen316 7 months ago
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The early church as described in the NT did the following: shared all things in common, relationships, support missionaries/ministers, teaching & preaching, praying, worshiping, reading of scripture, evangelism, fostering spiritual gifts. No where does the NT dictate fancy buildings, robes, repetitive prayer, a priesthood, Mary worship, sectarianism, or any order of service, etc.. all these are MAN MADE traditions ADDED ON.
kiwichristian2009 7 months ago
Purgatory is a man-made money-making thing invented by the unbiblical rcc.Heb1:3 "When He had by Himself PURGED OUR SINS.".Rom8:1 "There is therefor now NO CONDEMNATION to them that are in Christ Jesus.". Psalms49:7 "None of them can redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.".Dont forget Prov10:12 which never mentions purgatory. Acts4:12"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
kiwichristian2009 7 months ago
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John 2:1-2 says, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
kiwichristian2009 7 months ago
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To say that purgatory is a necessary purification is to deny that the grace of God is sufficient. 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."
kiwichristian2009 7 months ago
Very well done review. My only complaint is that you repeatedly mispronounce temporal, like it's a Japanese frying batter.
MartinLuisAnthony 8 months ago
Thanks for the video. You have capable men arguing on both sides.
prairiemark 11 months ago
rotfl if purgatory exists then why Jesus said to the other man who was dying on the cross too something like this?
"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." [Luk 23:43]
PARADISE =/= purgatory, sorry :/ And this guy didn't look like a "good deeds" man so if he is going to PARADISE by FAITH then ppl that do "better" things surely won't go to something like purgatory :) true christians aren't afraid of any fire because they simply believe Jesus
Dwinar7 1 year ago
@Dwinar7 - First, you assume that the man didn't go through Purgatory. Perhaps he did, and got into Paradise the same day. Or, he suffered the full penalty for his sins by crucifixion.
Second, Catholics aren't afraid of purgatory.
Third, you get to Paradise by faith, but also by works. People who do better still sin, and need purification.
Fourth, 1 Cor. 3:12-15 teaches purgatory. The sinner is saved, but his evil works are burned away after death before he enters heaven. That = purgatory.
Dmar198 1 year ago 7
@Dmar198 why am I assuming that this man went to paradise? Maybe I simply TRUST in what Jesus said? If He just simply said "you will be in paradise" I don't feel need to add anything to His words.
Anyway this debate won't make me a better christian because it's plain theory that has no affect on real, daily life. That's the problem of catholics that I met: too much talking, no practice. Focus on sacraments that didn't help me to find God and peace. I need to get back to Bible. Search continues.
Dwinar7 1 year ago
@Dwinar7 - You are assuming he didn't go through purgatory, on the basis that he went to Paradise. Reality check: there's no incompatibility there. He can do both.
And this debate ought to make you a better Christian at least by helping you accept the WHOLE of divine revelation. Knowing that the Trinity is true is similar to knowing that Purgatory is true; it might not affect your outward actions, but at least your inner disposition is better off for accepting what God has revealed.
Dmar198 10 months ago
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@Dmar198 How to DEBUNK the CATHOLIC CHURCH on PURGATORY
Jesus who is God told John what happens to Christian saints when they die?
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this down: Blessed are those who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they are blessed indeed, FOR THEY WILL REST from their hard work; for their GOOD DEEDS follow them!”
FYI..that's GOOD DEEDS done while the Christian saints are still living, not in Purgatory..LOL
abukid 2 weeks ago
@Dwinar7
Read Mt18.. namely 18:34. "..UNTIL he paid all the debt"
"Nothing defiled may enter" Rev21:27
Also, 1Cor3:13-15
Jesus also said "all sin can be forgiven except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, not in this world NOR THE WORLD TO COME".. Now, when we die, the 1st thing that happens is FINAL JUDGEMENT ---> heaven or hell, but Jesus said "nor th world to come" implying there still MAY BE "forgiveness" or "cleansing" IN THE WORLD TO COME AT THE TIME OF FINAL JUDGEMENT. 1Cor3:13-15
Fallschirmjaeger29 5 months ago
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@Dmar198 Christ paid the penalty for ALL sins (past, present and future) on the cross. We have been washed clean by His blood. There is no other 'purification' needed. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast."
johnthreesixteen316 3 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@Dmar198 If the thief on the cross went through "purgatory" in one day, then, as bad he was, I have to determine that, by comparison, most of the rest of us would be in "purgatory" for even less time; let's say, for the point of discussion, a rather brief afternoon. Which is only within this fictional context. If you wish to believe that you hover in vapor until you learn how to behave, then don't be at all surprised when anyone considers you to be an idiot for it.
JeffersonDinedAlone 1 month ago
@Dwinar7 1.We know for a FACT that Jesus didnt go to Heaven that day. 2. In the original Greek, there is no commas in that sentence, so it could have read something like this "Verily I say unto thee today, you shall be with me in paradice" Now, notice he could have been saying that he will at some time be with him in paradice. As we all know, Christ didnt go to Heaven when he was still on the cross, common sense.
YeshuaisYahweh1 11 months ago
@YeshuaisYahweh1 If the purgatory exist I will know about it after death, for now it has nothing to do with my life. Only people who think that Jesus' sacrifice was not enough or think they are more powerful than Jesus pray for dead because they think they can change something after death. Some even believe that wearing a scapular will grant heaven to them, they forgot that only Jesus can do this not an item. Pagans have talismans too.
Dwinar7 10 months ago
@Dwinar7 Purgatory is in the Bible, and items do have powers like Moses' staff and lots of other in the Bible. And obviosoly you didnt watch this video or you would not be making those crazy arguments. Revelation says nothing unclean shall enter heaven. So you think if you die with veinal sin on you still, you can go straight to heaven??? If nothing unclean enters heaven, then we better have some ice and fans to last a long time. LoL!
YeshuaisYahweh1 10 months ago
@YeshuaisYahweh1 It was the God who had a power, staff was only a symbol. If scapular has a power of granting heaven then Jesus' sacrifice was useless. But back on the topic: I am not unclean :) Jesus took away my sins :) I am no longer under the Law - Gal 3:10-13 And look if you think that Jesus is too weak to take out ALL of sins of those who have trusted in Him and need purgatory, that's fine but for me it isn't logical. Jesus said on cross "it is finished" - so what more do you want?
Dwinar7 10 months ago
@Dwinar7 You sound alot like this guy, "No sin will seperate us from the Lamb, even thow we commit murder and fornication 1000 times a day" Martin Luther.
YeshuaisYahweh1 10 months ago
@YeshuaisYahweh1
Ga 2:15-20
I will never murder anyone because... Simply I don't need to, why would I would kill someone if I met Jesus?
J 15:4-5
Good deeds are *effect* of trust to Jesus not a *way* to salvation.
Mat 7:16
If I repeat sins with premeditation and by my will it means I didn't met Jesus or I don't want Him therefore I don't want salvation. That is how I understand it.
Dwinar7 10 months ago
@YeshuaisYahweh1
PS
Believing that scapular can grant heaven is the same as in cited by you Luther's words: I can do whatever I want because I'm wearing magic thing that will save me from hell.
Dwinar7 10 months ago
@Dwinar7 Nope. Purtagory is real. 1 Cor. 3:15
YeshuaisYahweh1 10 months ago
Correct . Purgatory is real and solo fide does not exist. Luther while making his first translation took Revelations (which had suggestion of purgatory (Rev 21:27)) He took James out (Which had chapter 2:14-26 refuting solo fide )He took Jude and Hebrews out as well . Hebrews 10:26 tells is that if we sin deliberately after knowing the truth the sacrifice for sins is lost . He also took out the 7 books in the old Testament that argue solo fide . He added "Alone to Romans 3:28 )
CAtholic29 8 months ago
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@Dwinar7 actually if you read the bible . If you read Matthew 16 and 18 "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven . Then you would understand about the scapular .The approval to go ahead with that teaching came from Christ in Matthew 16 and 18.
CAtholic29 8 months ago
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ultimouomo11 8 months ago
@Dwinar7 The Bible says that nothing unclean can enter into heaven (Revelation 21:27). If sin still clings to Christians (Heb 12:1) then we must be purified. Read Mathew 5:23-25. It says to settle with your brother on the way to court or the judge with throw you in prison; it says you won't be released until you've paid the last penny. It cannot be hell because the damned are condemned for eternity. It's not heaven since heaven is not a prison. So there is a place or state to be purified.
ultimouomo11 8 months ago
@Dwinar7 I'll take you up on that challenge. Jesus said in (Mark 16:16) "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved" right?. But in (Acts 8:16) it says, "......for they had ONLY been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Jesus never mentions the laying on of hands." Yet in (Acts 8:16) it demonstrates that baptism alone is not sufficient. So if Jesus never said anything about the laying on of hands, if the gospels do not show him saying these words, does that make it untrue?.
ultimouomo11 7 months ago
@Dwinar7 Also, (Luke 12:57-59) and (Mathew 5:23-26) speak of a prison; A prison that one will eventually get out of once they have paid their debt in full. This is purgatory. We know it can't be hell, since once you're in hell it is for eternity, and heaven is not a prison. We know that a third place can exist besides heaven and hell because after Christ was crucified his Spirit went to preach to the spirits in prison (1 Peter3:19). Notice the word is prison in, like the verses I cited.
ultimouomo11 7 months ago
@Dwinar7 First of all, thee is NO TIME in heaven so when Jesus said this it wasn't based on our CLOCK..and Jesus did not ascend to Heaven right after he died on the cross, didn't He? So where was the Good Thief waiting for those 3 days and even after Jesus' Resurrection after 40 days? You base too much on Jesus' words but fail to understand God Doesn't work on your CLOCK and that Jesus did not enter Paradise right after Calvary. ;-)
JDNWF66 4 months ago
@JDNWF66 If there is no time in Heaven then why would you quote in another reply that "for God one day is as a thousand years."? If there is no time, then there is no day, nor thousand years to compare it to.
JeffersonDinedAlone 1 month ago
@Dwinar7 "For God one day is as a thousand years..." --- 2 Pet 3:8
JDNWF66 4 months ago
@Dwinar7 I don't know about your theory, but the Thief on the cross defended Jesus telling them the Jesus was innocent, Basically said let him go, it also sounded like he made a public confession to Jesus and humbled himself before him. I don't know about you, but he put forth some effort in that, sounds like good works to me..Plus Jesus said it was OK.
dirtboy7777 2 weeks ago
@Dwinar7 Heb 12:14 - strive for that holiness without which cannot see GodJam 3:2 - we all fall short in many respects Rev 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven
dirtboy7777 2 weeks ago
Great video. God bless. :)
NaturalEnquirer 1 year ago
Purgatory is a state of being after death. The anti-purgatory types declare one goes 'immediately' to heaven or hell after death yet they can't provide any scriptures to back it up.
Purgatory? check out 1 Corinth 3:15, 1 Peter 3:18-20; 4:6, 2 Tim 1:16-18, 1 Corinth 15:29-30. Amen!
MrOphachew 1 year ago
Outstanding Job Dmar! This is the most clear and concise explenation that I have heard on this point. Thank you!
govav8er 1 year ago
James white ws handled and smashed by jimmy akin. James white looked like a wanna be debater as compared to someone who actually knows and can explain the catholic faith. James white does NOT understand the catholic teachings because of his anti catholic bias.
bereanbaconettes 1 year ago
shut the fuck up dmar 198!!!!!! or u can debate james white and the results we leave to the audience.
reubenravidass 1 year ago
@reubenravidass As if you would listen. Clean up your mouth first, then you can come and tell me shut up mine.
Dmar198 1 year ago 2
Ya that's Tim Staples for you. I went to three of his talks that my church hosted. Tim has some good thoughts, I guess. He however I advice not to ask questions about the faith to him because he will talk for litterly 30 min. about his own life or something else then answers the question in a one sentence response that hardly helps you. You'd be better off Google your answer.
MrYaoMini 1 year ago
i never listen to james white, he's so full of himself.
great video..
egeneral27 1 year ago
Excellent analysis! Protestants are grasping air when debating with catholic apologists. I feel sorry for them: their whole purpose of existence is protesting against One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that Christ founded. Ironicaly, without it they wouldnt even exist nor would they have Bible, which is a book writen by catholics and for catholic. Funny how protestants are trying to turn a catholic book against their catholic authors!!
sundlea 1 year ago
Thank you so much :D You are amazing for doing this ^-^
Faithful Christian Catholic <3
UniQuEclectics 1 year ago
Purgatory is a man-made money-making thing invented by the unbiblical rcc.Heb1:3 "When He had by Himself PURGED OUR SINS.".Rom8:1 "There is therefor now NO CONDEMNATION to them that are in Christ Jesus.". Psalms49:7 "None of them can redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.".Dont forget Prov10:12 which never mentions purgatory. Acts4:12"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 - 1. Nobody is getting rich off of purgatory. If it's a money-making scheme, it's one of the stupidest ones invented. Second, Jesus does purge our sins, and the power DOES come from the Cross. There's no incompatibility between being purged by Christ here and being purged by Christ in purgatory. And as for Proverbs 10:12, you're right that it doesn't mention purgatory, but 1 Cor. 3:12-15 does. Proverbs 10 doesn't mention hell or angels, either, but those are still true things.
Dmar198 10 months ago 5
@Dmar198 in medieval times priests didn't say it is "the stupidest one" way to make money when they were selling indulgences to poor, cheated people which couldn't read the Bible themselves. Hm... that would explain perfectly the ban of Bible by the catholic church in 1229 year, oh and the year 1897 - "Index librorum prohibitorum". That's how the catholic church could "explain" their unbiblical and pagan believes just for controliling people and getting power.
Dwinar7 10 months ago
@Dmar198
Purgatory is unbiblical and a lot of the Roman catholicism are based on traditions which are ridiculous
strongyang 9 months ago
@strongyang Traditions based from the bible . Eucharist (1Cor 10 and 11, John 6 ) Purgatory (1cor3:15,2Tim1:16-18,2Macc 12 Rev 21:27)Saint intercession(REv 5:8) etc .... visit my blog .CLick on my nae then the blog you will learn more .
CAtholic29 8 months ago
@CAtholic29
Dude, READ the CONTEXT. I'm sick and tired of people trying to take a portion of the bible out and say, "look here you go."
strongyang 8 months ago
@strongyang Dude ? hey you will lose credibility using words like that . You need to read the bible how about that .
CAtholic29 8 months ago
@strongyang "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the TRADITIONS even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2). "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the TRADITIONS which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter." (2 Thess. 2:15)
ultimouomo11 8 months ago
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@ultimouomo11 Rubbish! 1Cor11:2 "Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you." The correct word translation is "ordinances" ( baptism FOLLOWING salvation and the Lords Supper ( NOT the "mass", The Lords Supper ). 2Thess2:15 is talking about SCRIPTURAL traditions, not your catholic satanic man-made ones!
kiwichristian2009 7 months ago
@kiwichristian2009 Matthew 18:32-35: Then his lord summoned him and said to him, `You wicked servant! I forgave you all that DEBT because you besought me; and should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?' And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, TIL HE SHOULD PAY ALL HIS DEBT. SO ALSO MY HEAVENLY FATHER WILL DO TO EVERY ONE OF YOU, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart. Matthew 5:25-26 as well.
ultimouomo11 7 months ago
@ultimouomo11 I take it you are talking about purgatory here. I have no idea WHERE on earth you get purgatory out of here! This is CLEARLY showing u that since God forgives our huge sins and debts, so much so should we forgive smaller sins/debts against us!!!!!!!!!!!
kiwichristian2009 7 months ago
@kiwichristian2009 Why do you not believe in Purgatory?
dis00612 7 months ago
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@dis00612 Because to say that purgatory is a necessary purification is to deny that the grace of God is sufficient. 1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.". We are cleansed clean by His shed blood.
kiwichristian2009 7 months ago
@dis00612 If purgatory is true then the 'catholic' Christ didn't accomplish anything on the cross, wasted his time and died for nothing. The 'catholic' Christ should have hired a pro instead of doing the job himself. The Christ of Christianity is the Pro. He got the job on the cross done right the first time. And.....He did it for free!
kiwichristian2009 7 months ago
@kiwichristian2009 "Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and fill up on my part that which is lacking of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church.."(Colossians1:24)What St. Paul means is that many sufferings are still wanting and needed for the members of the Church to work out their salvation, which was all made possible by Christ’s sacrifice.No one would have to believe or do anything to be saved if Jesusmadeup for everythingeven future punishment
dis00612 7 months ago
@dis00612 Yes, suffering in THIS life, while we are alive I suffer every day! Paul suffered. Don't misunderstand me, i am not comparing myself to an apostle i any way. I am a dirty, filthy sinner and i deserve hell and indeed have earned hell.
kiwichristian2009 7 months ago
@kiwichristian2009 Exactly.....and our suffering has nothing to do with our salvation. That was paid for at the cross.
johnthreesixteen316 7 months ago
@dis00612 Hello friend. We suffer everyday because of this life and our Christian belief, but that has nothing to do with our salvation. Notice in Colossians 1:24 that Paul doesn't mention salvation. Christ paid the sin debt once and for all 2000 years ago. If He didn't then He has no power whatsoever. We can't earn salvation. Jesus doesn't need any favours.
johnthreesixteen316 7 months ago
@johnthreesixteen316 Philippians 2:12 "...work out your salvation with fear and trembling..." "If it were true that Jesus’ sacrifice made up for everything, including the future punishments due to every man’s sins, then no one would have to believe or do anything to be saved. Jesus’ sacrifice would have paid the price for it all. But even the non-Catholics who argue that Jesus made up for everything admit that not all men are saved. They admit that people must do something to be saved."
dis00612 7 months ago
@dis00612 Hello friend. To 'work out' our salvation means to figure it out. We must decide in whom our salvation lies. We don't have to do any work. Christ did it all on the cross. "Eternal life is a free gift through faith, not works......"
johnthreesixteen316 7 months ago
@dis00612 Hello friend. We still have to believe of course. Not all are saved. We must accept Christ as our saviour. If it was based on suffering then Satan could be saved too.
johnthreesixteen316 7 months ago
@johnthreesixteen316 YES! but we do not believe in being saved by Faith ALONE!!!
dis00612 7 months ago
@johnthreesixteen316 But just believing is not enough
dis00612 7 months ago
@kiwichristian2009 Exactly! BUT.....what does Jesus say will happen to the servant if he doesn't forgive? The judge will throw him into prison until he pays all his debt. Christ says, "SO ALSO WILL MY FATHER DO TO YOU" (future tense). So he's saying what happened to the wicked servant will happen to me or you if we do not heed the lesson of the parable. The servant will eventually get out of prison, yet not until he has paid all his debt. How you can miss that part is a mystery to me?
ultimouomo11 7 months ago
It seems to me that Protestants will do anything they can to go around the truth and twist what we say just so they don't have to admit they are wrong.
777ChiRho 1 year ago
@777ChiRho because it so hard to swallow the truth when you have a big spoon of pride...
egeneral27 1 year ago
Good analysis Dmar!
dltstudios 1 year ago
@dltstudios Thank you, dlstudios :)
Dmar198 1 year ago
When it comes to debating the Bible. Tim Staples is one of the best.
vamp2757 1 year ago
Amen to that, brother!
Dmar198 1 year ago
This is really good Dmar!
SVSfootballman09 1 year ago
@SVSfootballman09 - Thanks. I'm glad you liked it. :)
Dmar198 1 year ago
Great points, great video! I agree completely that many protestants will admit to the concepts of purgatory using the passage in question.
I still have to say that Tim Staples made more sense in his debate and Tim Staples is a great doctrinal teacher coming from his past as an anticathoic to finding his way home.
Very educational!
catchzz 1 year ago
@catchzz - I'm glad you thought so. It was a great debate. The case for purgatory is so strong that I don't see how a Bible-reading person can do anything other than accept it as one of the most Biblically-based doctrines in all Scripture.
Dmar198 1 year ago
@Dmar198 Well it just makes so much sense. You don't turn a person into a soldier overnight, they have to go through boot camp first!!
777ChiRho 1 year ago
@Dmar198 1.Because this is plainly meant of a figurative fire, not of a real one: for what real fire can consume religious rites or doctrines? 2.Because this fire is to try men's works, of what sort they are; but purgatory-fire is not for trial, not to bring men's actions to the test, but to punish for them. 3. This fire is to try every man's works, those of Paul and Apollos, as well as those of others. Now, no papists will have the front to say apostles must have passed through purgatory fires
jbmize 1 year ago
Therefore, Purgatory is not supported whatsoever by this passage in scripture.
jbmize 1 year ago
@jbmize - Wrong. What it proves is equal to purgatory, therefore purgatory is not only supported, but the entire doctrine is stated outright.
Dmar198 1 year ago
@jbmize 1.The fire burns away heresies by igniting heretics until the impurity of heresy is gone. Look up the word synecdoche; that word explains why purgatory is said to burn sins when it really burns the sinner. And even if it was figurative fire, how does that prove it is not purgatory? 2.This fire both tests (v. 13) and punishes (v. 15). That makes it purgatorial. 3. The fire tests every man but only burns sinners (vv. 13-15). We do not say the testing is purgatorial, but the punishing is.
Dmar198 1 year ago
thanks for the video!
LauraBradley123 1 year ago
@LauraBradley123 No problem, Laura. I'm glad you liked it. :)
Dmar198 1 year ago