I mean, not in the way I'm looking for: movies and songs... It's hard to find those kind of things when you know nothing about the culture of the language...
The funny part is that it wasn't until I heard someone really good, speaking to me live that I could tell that my accent wasn't just that good, because I remember myself watching tv and thinking: Oh, I'm quite good at this... but I wasn't... actually, I think that usually happens in the language learning process hehe.
I don't know, I remember that I used to have a thicker accent in English and it was more difficult for me to speak because it wasn't natural. Besides, when someone has a thick accent in a language that usually means that that person struggles with understanding in general, I mean, I know I used to... So, for me, having a good accent is just the consequence of trying to understand the language better.
@lingosteve No, I was in college studying English teaching when I realized that I had a thick accent and actually, it all happened because I heard a teacher, who has a very good accent, speaking to me. So, I started investigating on the internet how to get a good accent and I found a guy named Luca here on youtube and I decided to follow his advises, so I try to listen to English songs very very carefully and I have two years doing just that and my accent has improved a lot.
@lingosteve Well, I think is a matter of motivation, effort and high contact with the language. Now I'm doing an experiment trying to learn french in a "natural" way, I mean, listening to the sounds very carefully first (in order to perceive them) then I try to listen to the language a lot to learn words and grammar and so on. However, now I realized that I need high contact with the language in order to absorb the grammar rules and french resources are not that easy to find on the internet.
@Luiseut59 I prefer to do a lot of listening before really trying to pronounce. I know that in Russian and Czech, which are difficult to pronounce, I just naturally get better at hearing the language through lots of exposure. Then when I start to speak I do better. It is hard to force yourself to pronounce well if the brain is not used to the language.
Why not use LingQ for French. There are lots of audio and text materials available for free download.
Your videos are very interesting! I watched several and I would also like to be multilingual. :) I live in Taiwan (an island southeastern to Mainland China), but I used to live in Vancouver when I was in elementary school(and I didn't go to ESL) When I was there, I learnt French. Having left Canada for 8 years, I can't speak French anymore. Would it be easier for me to learn French than another foreign language, such as Spanish, Italian or German?
@vivdclyde Yes French may be easier since you already have some exposure. The main factor, however, is how interested you are to learn the language. Good luck.
While I agree with you in some respects, I do think that this is a difficult thing to generalize... For students who have made it a long way in their studies and can communicate well already, of course it is simply a matter of personal choice to undergo accent reduction. However, for students who are still learning to communicate, it is extremely important to pay attention to pronunciation and strive to be as close to native as possible in order to be understood when their grammar fails them.
Yup you are right. I have bought a package of lessons about pronunciation. It taught me how to place my tongue and control the shape of my mouth. After a month, however, i forgot everything utterly. After that, i listened to some podcast i found interesting and my pronunciation actually improved a lot without i noticing it at all!
Accent and pronunciation get tied together so often. My view is as long as I can understand someone without having to actively focus on what they are saying, then their accent is a non-issue. For instance, my spanish teacher has a spanish accent, yet she was easily understood in all things.
To be honest, if everyone would speak the same accent it wouldn't be as fun. I think Spanish or French people speaking English with their accent is beautiful. So I don't really understand why you want to make people give up their ways of pronouncing words. I could understand if we'd be talking about Chinese or Vietnamese language, where accent is really important, but other than that I don't think different accents are bad or something that needs to be get rid of.
Are you fucking high? Maybe in societies like Canada, the United States or Europe, where you come into contact with non-native speakers at least once a day; sure, I suppose accent reduction isn't as important, but living in a place like Japan, Russia, any of the former Soviet Republics, ect. where the VAST majority of speakers are native speakers that aren't used to hearing the language spoken by anyone less than a fellow native...
@JonVonD What utter nonsense. I lived in Japan for nine years. I regularly listen to radio interviews in Russian involving foreigners. People who can make themselves understood, even with noticeable accents, are appreciated and treated with respect.
@lingosteve It's not utter nonsense, and I don't care how long you lived in Japan, nor if you listen to radio interviews with foreigners in Russian. Languages whose speech communities that are composed mainly of native or near native speakers require significant work in accent reduction in order to be understand versus speech communities in North America, Western Europe, and other western countries. Rural Japan, former Soviet Republics, the Russian Far East, Hungary, the Baltic States, ect.
@JonVonD That may be your experience but mine is different. The important thing is to make sense and to be a good communicator. The accent does not matter as long as it is understandable. It maybe that peasants in the rural areas have trouble understanding foreigners with accents but communicating with farmers is not the main goal of language learning.
@lingosteve It's not a question of experience, it's a question of socio and psycholinguistics. Perceptual biasis formed in speech communities where there is only one L1 have harder times understanding accents than others. If your goal in language learning is communication, then accent reduction would be extremely important; you claim to speak Russian, so you should understand things like intonational centers are extremely specific and if you don't get them right, then you aren't understood.
@lingosteve Further, are you really so arrogant to refer to people who have a broad L1 base as peasants? or farmers? Despite the fact that you're constantly advocating the 'goal of language learning' as communication, who's to say that we don't want to speak to farmers? Who are you to say what the goal of language learning even is? Older speech communities hang on to older trends in the language and are more attune to older cultural practices. talking effectively means working on your accent.
@JonVonD Frankly I think you're wrong. My native language is Polish which is quite hard for foreigners to pronounce correctly and I have yet to meet a person whose accent would be a real problem in communication. Even people with really strong accents are possible to understand but it just requires a bit of effort on your part. As an interesting fact let me tell you that the Pope gives speeches in Polish and to do that he just needs a text transliterated into German charset. '
@tosikk1 Frankly, I think you missed my point. Accent reduction is important in certain spheres of communication. It is not a question of vanity; it is an element of communicating properly. My native language is German, I've lived in the United States most my life and I can't understand some students of German because their accents are just so godawful; which takes away from their capacity to communicate.
Just be yourself, you'll develop your own accent over time, and I believe correct USAGE is far more important than how you SOUND.
After all, your goal should be achieving competence in WRITING, COMMUNICATION, and PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT. If you spend time talking with people, getting yourself out there, having some fun with your friends who speak the language, then what have you failed at?
there are around ten different accents for english in england, only one of those use correct grammar through speech. the others have their own dialect which a non native schooled in english would find impossible to understand. so when you say native you should inform people that native is that which is grammatically correct, otherwise you could end up emulating a scouse liverpudlian accent by watching re runs of brookside and scare off the rest of your london tour guide.
Hello, coming from a 26year old German English teacher: Me and all TESOL teachers in Germany I know try to sound as "native" as possible. Most languages are not a lingua franca like English. I speak Japanese, and I did not learn it to speak Japanese with other Germans, but with Japanese people. In order for them to easily understand me OF COURSE i try to model my accent after theirs... what else could i take as a model?
So, my point of view is that although natives can be models, you don't necessarily need them to be.
The idea of having native speakers as models, therefore setting yourself a goal that cannot be achieved, is outdated and it tries to perpetuate the idea of native speakers as being owners of the language. Anyways, although linguistics show that having native speakers as models is outdated and unrealistic, a lot of people in the world still see language learning like that.
Well, I respect your opinion but I still disagree with it. Of course you have native speakers to work as models if you think it's necessary; however, lots and lots and lots of people learn a foreign language with teacher or professors who ARE NOT native speakers.
They are also models and they are not native speakers. And sorry to tell you, most language teachers are NOT native speakers, so, you don't need to learn from anative speaker to learn how to speak the language.
nd about not understanding the rest of my comment, I don't see why. I met two Germans who were fluent in English and they were English teachers by the way. Their phrasing also presented characteristics of their own language. They used to say "I tomorrow have a test". They never used any future forms, but they could convey their message.
So, accents go beyond pronunciation, and of course having an accent reflect your identity, your own language, your own culture.
@tropoway "With all due respect, this is such a BS", calling something BS is respect? And accent relates to pronunciation and intonation ,and not to how words are used. That is usage, not accent. The two are different.
I am sure these German teachers of English would like to speak like a native, the native of their choice. Your whole argument smacks of the latest politically correct nonsense about native speakers not being the role model, for most people they are.
I am saying that you do not have to imitate any accent. That's is absolutely not important. Native speakers are not the role model anymore because there are far too many accents in the world.
American accent? Which one? From New Your? From the south? No matter what you will have an accent; therefore, one should NOT be worried about having a native-like accent . A person should have his or her own accent which I find ADORABLE as long as you can communicate well.
@tropoway No. You do imitate an accent. That is your model, otherwise you have no way of knowing how something is pronounced. If I learn Portuguese I will choose whom to model my pronunciation on, it may be a person from Portugual, or from Brazil or Mozambique, and the result may be a mixture of those plus my own native language, but the models are there. It would not an American or Frenchman speaking Portuguese. Of course I will fail to sound like a native, but the native is still my model.
With all due respect, this is such a BS. Of course accents are part of your own identity. If this man had more contact with non native speakers, he would know that accents are not only related to pronunciation but also to phrasing.
And NO... the native speaker isn't the model anymore... and btw, which native speaker is the model? Irish? British? American? Canadian? Australian? Which one?
I have a soft New York non-rhotic accent. At one time a soft non-rhotic New York or New England accent was considered prestigious. Now it is shunned.
I resent the notion of accent reductionists that "correct" North American English MUST be rhotic. Who's to say that the sharp Midwestern American or Prairie Canadian accent has to be the standard? Millions of New Yorkers and New Englanders do not sound like their televisions. Diversity is beautiful!
@epituchano people should just speak with the accent they like, usually their own, if native, or the accent they find the most pleasing if learning another language.
I once had to take an accent reduction class for a job, they made it a policy that everyone had to have an accent reduction class.
I found it strange because I was raised in Arizona and we have no real accent there. The instructor was confused why they had me take the class as I didn't need it.
I'm interested in your theory that listening to 20-40 minutes or so of a language multiple times could help reduce someone's accent a lot. I'm prepared to put this theory to the test, even though I've already lived in Spain for 3 years and been learning Spanish for about 6. I'll let you know what my results are if it actually has results.
By the way, you've worked really hard to be where you are with your many languages and I admire you.
I was wondering. From your perspevctive, how different is the canadian accent in comparison to the us accent besides the obvious "out", "about", "process" etc.? I am thinking more in terms of intonation and the general "feel", if you will, of the two.
Lingosteve is great, he knows that languages are one of the best things that people can learn, its great fitness for your brain and great intelligence, He's awesome!!! Its amazing how he's fluent in all of those languages, and furthermore without an accent. I want to be like him. By the way, thanks for all of the tips!!!
@sanjabmahi1 Hey, I think you should watch his videos in all languages first, and then judge his pronunciation. I, personally, think that in some languages he does have an accent, and in some he doesn't. I think that he, for example, speaks Chinese very, very well, but that he has his own Canadian accent when he speaks Italian, but it is not much expressed.
I've been learning English for some years and I'd never ever learn its pronunciation if I had relied on my listening abilities. I made tremendous and fast progress in this area not just by listening as you recommend but by studying patterns. Therefore I advice other to read e.g. English Phonetics and Phonology by Peter Roach. Some terms and chapters are more theoretical but with English Pronunciation in Use it was great.
@1qewretry dude, i picked up the Portuguese accent by listening to the language, but not the same thing. i learned the language first, and then listened to the dialogues and did not fear in imitating it.
Respect accents. Dont think you can nail it like that. Remember that a native speaker has had a lifetime to mold his/hers language/accent. I realized that when I was in Spain during my traineeship. I was arrogant to think I could nail the language in 5 months. Dont get me wrong, I learned to communicate, but I was far from having an intrinsic understanding of the language. So, dont patronize native speakers by acting like you have had 20-30 years like them to practice. Respect the natives.
I have a lot of interest in phonetics, and I personally find the IPA helpful when tackling the pronunciation of a foreign language, especially for looking up the pronunciation of a word when I'm not sure of it.
Of course, Steve is right that there are too many subtle variations. The IPA isn't even precise enough to capture them all. Chinese tones, for instance, really need to be heard to be mastered, because no phonetic transcription will burn the right acoustical patterns in your brain.
@AtomikNY To me the best way to pick out the sounds is either hearing the word alone or used in a dialog and then shadowing the speaker. And there will be variances in intonation depending on the posture you use and familiarity of content. In Japanese I can sometimes pull off sounding like a native, but other times I come off accentless. And I am okay with not sounding like a Japanese. Same goes for Chinese. If the tones are praticed to the point where a speaker can easily understand then good.
I think my accent is a part of my personality. If I speak english and put on an english accent (especially american english accent) I dont feel comfortable, because it is not a part of my personality - I would feel silly. The same goes for spanish. When spanish people speak they have a tendency to be more physical. I couldnt bring myself to use the mimics of spanish people, when I speak spanish, because it is so far away from my personality.
@u2bealot , for me I don't think personality has anything to do with it; the more you have listened to those languages the less common you'll do accent mistakes, in other words, to make sounds that doesn't even exist.
In short, listen more and the correct accent becomes natural.
Interesting. I spoke fluent english from a young age, however I've always had a very, almost egregiously strong accent. Will I suddenly be able to change? probably not, though every now and again I pick up another small "trick" to modify how I sound. This "th" trick will come in handy.
I am curious. Why should I work on my accents? They are what they are. I do the best I can. I imitate as best I can and I am satisfied. That is all we should expect of ourselves or of others for that matter.
Well I agree with a lot of points in your video.I have heard your accent in your videos speaking other languages.
Maybe Im just focusing too much on your portuguese videos. But I feel like your accent is too spanish.For me Im not satisfied witha foreign language until I can be mistakable as a native speaker.
I feel that you put a lot of effort into language learning, you wrote a book, have lingq. But I think that because you know so many languages you forget about the accents.
I have no illusions about my Portuguese nor do I aspire to be mistaken for a native. I learn language for fun and focus on listening and reading. When I speak my accent is at is, generally quite acceptable, but I am not mistaken for a native, nor are you I suspect.
@lingosteve ...you learn language for funn...mmmm...most of the people learn a foreign language for other reasons,better job opportunities,better salary,visit the country where the language is spoken,Steve, this is your retired project,for us is differnt ,we are younger ,for us is a necessity,for us it means even go and live in the country of our dreams,I don't criticize you ,I just tell you thet your aim in learning a foreigh language is completely different,we present exams,we go to classes,
Don't be silly. People who enjoy their learning learn better.Also please don't make assumptions about the motivations of people learning languages, since you simply do not know.
@phonicsquest i learn languages for fun. currently i speak three languages fluently and do it more for fun than anything else. i have no need in learning them, but i do so anyways.
I remember one thing that motivated me to obtain a great accent in Spanish when I was in high school was that there was this idea among a lot of the native Spanish speaking kids there that "white people couldn't pronounce Spanish." That annoyed me to no end, so I taught myself to have 'perfect' Spanish pronunciation to prove them all wrong. It was the people who didn't care about Spanish that "couldn't pronounce" it. If you're motivated to learn a language enough, you can do it.
i think the best way to learn how to pronouce things well is to repeat after a native speaker a lot. monkey see monkey do. i hear what youre saying about willing it to work though, i remember i used to pronounce the german r as a trilled r but then one day noticed it was wrong, and i was able to actively fix it even though the trilled pronunciation was pretty ingrained in my head lol.
Whatever works so that you do not get too bored, probably between 20-60 minutes. The point is that you will cover most sounds and rhythms of the language. The repetition of the same phrases and rhythms seems to engrave itself on the brain better. It is more intense than just listening to new content where you are listening for meaning and to train the brain.
Good video Steve. In my Japanese studies, I've been listening to different accents. When I went to Hiroshima on vacation I fell in love with their dialect. So, I've been trying to find as much 広島弁 audio and video that I can find. They change a lot of sounds though, but nothing that can't be trained. Such as だから changes to じゃけん and いる to おる. Most of my listening is still standard dialect however, but after I can master that the Hiroshima dialect is next.
I have just finished small research on learning languages. My argument is that listening helps people speake similar to native speakers because this way is like early immersion in children
I mean, not in the way I'm looking for: movies and songs... It's hard to find those kind of things when you know nothing about the culture of the language...
Luiseut59 2 months ago
The funny part is that it wasn't until I heard someone really good, speaking to me live that I could tell that my accent wasn't just that good, because I remember myself watching tv and thinking: Oh, I'm quite good at this... but I wasn't... actually, I think that usually happens in the language learning process hehe.
Luiseut59 2 months ago
@Luiseut59 You can always listen to yourself and compare. But maybe your accent was not all that bad to begin with.
lingosteve 2 months ago
I don't know, I remember that I used to have a thicker accent in English and it was more difficult for me to speak because it wasn't natural. Besides, when someone has a thick accent in a language that usually means that that person struggles with understanding in general, I mean, I know I used to... So, for me, having a good accent is just the consequence of trying to understand the language better.
Luiseut59 2 months ago
@Luiseut59 But what did you do to reduce your accent? Or did it just happen as all your English language skills improved?
lingosteve 2 months ago
@lingosteve No, I was in college studying English teaching when I realized that I had a thick accent and actually, it all happened because I heard a teacher, who has a very good accent, speaking to me. So, I started investigating on the internet how to get a good accent and I found a guy named Luca here on youtube and I decided to follow his advises, so I try to listen to English songs very very carefully and I have two years doing just that and my accent has improved a lot.
Luiseut59 2 months ago
@Luiseut59 I agree that listening often to content that we like, that strikes an emotional chord, will help us reduce our accent.
lingosteve 2 months ago
@lingosteve Well, I think is a matter of motivation, effort and high contact with the language. Now I'm doing an experiment trying to learn french in a "natural" way, I mean, listening to the sounds very carefully first (in order to perceive them) then I try to listen to the language a lot to learn words and grammar and so on. However, now I realized that I need high contact with the language in order to absorb the grammar rules and french resources are not that easy to find on the internet.
Luiseut59 2 months ago
@Luiseut59 I prefer to do a lot of listening before really trying to pronounce. I know that in Russian and Czech, which are difficult to pronounce, I just naturally get better at hearing the language through lots of exposure. Then when I start to speak I do better. It is hard to force yourself to pronounce well if the brain is not used to the language.
Why not use LingQ for French. There are lots of audio and text materials available for free download.
lingosteve 2 months ago
@lingosteve I will do just that then... hehe
Luiseut59 2 months ago
Your videos are very interesting! I watched several and I would also like to be multilingual. :) I live in Taiwan (an island southeastern to Mainland China), but I used to live in Vancouver when I was in elementary school(and I didn't go to ESL) When I was there, I learnt French. Having left Canada for 8 years, I can't speak French anymore. Would it be easier for me to learn French than another foreign language, such as Spanish, Italian or German?
vivdclyde 3 months ago in playlist More videos from lingosteve
@vivdclyde Yes French may be easier since you already have some exposure. The main factor, however, is how interested you are to learn the language. Good luck.
lingosteve 3 months ago
While I agree with you in some respects, I do think that this is a difficult thing to generalize... For students who have made it a long way in their studies and can communicate well already, of course it is simply a matter of personal choice to undergo accent reduction. However, for students who are still learning to communicate, it is extremely important to pay attention to pronunciation and strive to be as close to native as possible in order to be understood when their grammar fails them.
halfthishalfthat 6 months ago
Yup you are right. I have bought a package of lessons about pronunciation. It taught me how to place my tongue and control the shape of my mouth. After a month, however, i forgot everything utterly. After that, i listened to some podcast i found interesting and my pronunciation actually improved a lot without i noticing it at all!
ronironiism 6 months ago
Accent and pronunciation get tied together so often. My view is as long as I can understand someone without having to actively focus on what they are saying, then their accent is a non-issue. For instance, my spanish teacher has a spanish accent, yet she was easily understood in all things.
jeremiah3754 9 months ago
To be honest, if everyone would speak the same accent it wouldn't be as fun. I think Spanish or French people speaking English with their accent is beautiful. So I don't really understand why you want to make people give up their ways of pronouncing words. I could understand if we'd be talking about Chinese or Vietnamese language, where accent is really important, but other than that I don't think different accents are bad or something that needs to be get rid of.
StarlessSight 9 months ago
"Accent reduction is a question of vanity"
Are you fucking high? Maybe in societies like Canada, the United States or Europe, where you come into contact with non-native speakers at least once a day; sure, I suppose accent reduction isn't as important, but living in a place like Japan, Russia, any of the former Soviet Republics, ect. where the VAST majority of speakers are native speakers that aren't used to hearing the language spoken by anyone less than a fellow native...
JonVonD 9 months ago
@JonVonD What utter nonsense. I lived in Japan for nine years. I regularly listen to radio interviews in Russian involving foreigners. People who can make themselves understood, even with noticeable accents, are appreciated and treated with respect.
lingosteve 9 months ago
@lingosteve It's not utter nonsense, and I don't care how long you lived in Japan, nor if you listen to radio interviews with foreigners in Russian. Languages whose speech communities that are composed mainly of native or near native speakers require significant work in accent reduction in order to be understand versus speech communities in North America, Western Europe, and other western countries. Rural Japan, former Soviet Republics, the Russian Far East, Hungary, the Baltic States, ect.
JonVonD 9 months ago
@JonVonD That may be your experience but mine is different. The important thing is to make sense and to be a good communicator. The accent does not matter as long as it is understandable. It maybe that peasants in the rural areas have trouble understanding foreigners with accents but communicating with farmers is not the main goal of language learning.
lingosteve 9 months ago
@lingosteve It's not a question of experience, it's a question of socio and psycholinguistics. Perceptual biasis formed in speech communities where there is only one L1 have harder times understanding accents than others. If your goal in language learning is communication, then accent reduction would be extremely important; you claim to speak Russian, so you should understand things like intonational centers are extremely specific and if you don't get them right, then you aren't understood.
JonVonD 9 months ago
@lingosteve Further, are you really so arrogant to refer to people who have a broad L1 base as peasants? or farmers? Despite the fact that you're constantly advocating the 'goal of language learning' as communication, who's to say that we don't want to speak to farmers? Who are you to say what the goal of language learning even is? Older speech communities hang on to older trends in the language and are more attune to older cultural practices. talking effectively means working on your accent.
JonVonD 9 months ago
@JonVonD Frankly I think you're wrong. My native language is Polish which is quite hard for foreigners to pronounce correctly and I have yet to meet a person whose accent would be a real problem in communication. Even people with really strong accents are possible to understand but it just requires a bit of effort on your part. As an interesting fact let me tell you that the Pope gives speeches in Polish and to do that he just needs a text transliterated into German charset. '
tosikk1 9 months ago
@tosikk1 Frankly, I think you missed my point. Accent reduction is important in certain spheres of communication. It is not a question of vanity; it is an element of communicating properly. My native language is German, I've lived in the United States most my life and I can't understand some students of German because their accents are just so godawful; which takes away from their capacity to communicate.
JonVonD 9 months ago
Language is a culture trigger.
RyuPiu 9 months ago
Just be yourself, you'll develop your own accent over time, and I believe correct USAGE is far more important than how you SOUND.
After all, your goal should be achieving competence in WRITING, COMMUNICATION, and PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT. If you spend time talking with people, getting yourself out there, having some fun with your friends who speak the language, then what have you failed at?
Live your life.
ArchetypeXE 9 months ago
Thank so much!
zimmermann10 9 months ago
there are around ten different accents for english in england, only one of those use correct grammar through speech. the others have their own dialect which a non native schooled in english would find impossible to understand. so when you say native you should inform people that native is that which is grammatically correct, otherwise you could end up emulating a scouse liverpudlian accent by watching re runs of brookside and scare off the rest of your london tour guide.
CityHunter84 10 months ago
So, I am Brazilian, I speak and teach English and I have never wished to speak like a native.
I think diversity is to be appreciated. I don;t think the Germans want to speak like natives and I don't think they have ever tried.
I am totally able to communicate in English and I still don't feel like I need to speak with a native accent.
So, that's it. I think we see things differently, but I respect your opinion on the matter.
=D
tropoway 1 year ago
@tropoway
Hello, coming from a 26year old German English teacher: Me and all TESOL teachers in Germany I know try to sound as "native" as possible. Most languages are not a lingua franca like English. I speak Japanese, and I did not learn it to speak Japanese with other Germans, but with Japanese people. In order for them to easily understand me OF COURSE i try to model my accent after theirs... what else could i take as a model?
HoseiTutor 1 year ago
So, my point of view is that although natives can be models, you don't necessarily need them to be.
The idea of having native speakers as models, therefore setting yourself a goal that cannot be achieved, is outdated and it tries to perpetuate the idea of native speakers as being owners of the language. Anyways, although linguistics show that having native speakers as models is outdated and unrealistic, a lot of people in the world still see language learning like that.
tropoway 1 year ago
Well, I respect your opinion but I still disagree with it. Of course you have native speakers to work as models if you think it's necessary; however, lots and lots and lots of people learn a foreign language with teacher or professors who ARE NOT native speakers.
They are also models and they are not native speakers. And sorry to tell you, most language teachers are NOT native speakers, so, you don't need to learn from anative speaker to learn how to speak the language.
tropoway 1 year ago
nd about not understanding the rest of my comment, I don't see why. I met two Germans who were fluent in English and they were English teachers by the way. Their phrasing also presented characteristics of their own language. They used to say "I tomorrow have a test". They never used any future forms, but they could convey their message.
So, accents go beyond pronunciation, and of course having an accent reflect your identity, your own language, your own culture.
tropoway 1 year ago
@tropoway "With all due respect, this is such a BS", calling something BS is respect? And accent relates to pronunciation and intonation ,and not to how words are used. That is usage, not accent. The two are different.
I am sure these German teachers of English would like to speak like a native, the native of their choice. Your whole argument smacks of the latest politically correct nonsense about native speakers not being the role model, for most people they are.
lingosteve 1 year ago
I am saying that you do not have to imitate any accent. That's is absolutely not important. Native speakers are not the role model anymore because there are far too many accents in the world.
American accent? Which one? From New Your? From the south? No matter what you will have an accent; therefore, one should NOT be worried about having a native-like accent . A person should have his or her own accent which I find ADORABLE as long as you can communicate well.
tropoway 1 year ago
@tropoway No. You do imitate an accent. That is your model, otherwise you have no way of knowing how something is pronounced. If I learn Portuguese I will choose whom to model my pronunciation on, it may be a person from Portugual, or from Brazil or Mozambique, and the result may be a mixture of those plus my own native language, but the models are there. It would not an American or Frenchman speaking Portuguese. Of course I will fail to sound like a native, but the native is still my model.
lingosteve 1 year ago
With all due respect, this is such a BS. Of course accents are part of your own identity. If this man had more contact with non native speakers, he would know that accents are not only related to pronunciation but also to phrasing.
And NO... the native speaker isn't the model anymore... and btw, which native speaker is the model? Irish? British? American? Canadian? Australian? Which one?
tropoway 1 year ago
@tropoway You imitate the accent you wish to imitate. The rest of your comment I do not understand.
lingosteve 1 year ago
I have a soft New York non-rhotic accent. At one time a soft non-rhotic New York or New England accent was considered prestigious. Now it is shunned.
I resent the notion of accent reductionists that "correct" North American English MUST be rhotic. Who's to say that the sharp Midwestern American or Prairie Canadian accent has to be the standard? Millions of New Yorkers and New Englanders do not sound like their televisions. Diversity is beautiful!
epituchano 1 year ago
@epituchano people should just speak with the accent they like, usually their own, if native, or the accent they find the most pleasing if learning another language.
lingosteve 1 year ago
I once had to take an accent reduction class for a job, they made it a policy that everyone had to have an accent reduction class.
I found it strange because I was raised in Arizona and we have no real accent there. The instructor was confused why they had me take the class as I didn't need it.
HeavyMetalLobotomy 1 year ago
Thank you Steve. It's very encouraging to hear about that Chinese guy. I'm going to use his method.
yurismir1 1 year ago
I'm interested in your theory that listening to 20-40 minutes or so of a language multiple times could help reduce someone's accent a lot. I'm prepared to put this theory to the test, even though I've already lived in Spain for 3 years and been learning Spanish for about 6. I'll let you know what my results are if it actually has results.
By the way, you've worked really hard to be where you are with your many languages and I admire you.
ElTrollBoy 1 year ago
@ElTrollBoy I look forward to hearing how it works.
lingosteve 1 year ago
I was wondering. From your perspevctive, how different is the canadian accent in comparison to the us accent besides the obvious "out", "about", "process" etc.? I am thinking more in terms of intonation and the general "feel", if you will, of the two.
u2bealot 1 year ago
@u2bealot Not very different from the standard American accent.
lingosteve 1 year ago
That's great!
By the way i am very close from achieving the native speaker Accent !
theHashemitePrince 1 year ago
Lingosteve is great, he knows that languages are one of the best things that people can learn, its great fitness for your brain and great intelligence, He's awesome!!! Its amazing how he's fluent in all of those languages, and furthermore without an accent. I want to be like him. By the way, thanks for all of the tips!!!
speedproductions797 1 year ago
@speedproductions797 withOUT an accent you say??? uh...........no
sanjabmahi1 1 year ago
@sanjabmahi1 Hey, I think you should watch his videos in all languages first, and then judge his pronunciation. I, personally, think that in some languages he does have an accent, and in some he doesn't. I think that he, for example, speaks Chinese very, very well, but that he has his own Canadian accent when he speaks Italian, but it is not much expressed.
kninametalhead 1 year ago
Because of that theoretically-practical background I could then really pay attention on I what I had learned during future listening.
QubbaPL 2 years ago
I've been learning English for some years and I'd never ever learn its pronunciation if I had relied on my listening abilities. I made tremendous and fast progress in this area not just by listening as you recommend but by studying patterns. Therefore I advice other to read e.g. English Phonetics and Phonology by Peter Roach. Some terms and chapters are more theoretical but with English Pronunciation in Use it was great.
QubbaPL 2 years ago
steve,
you mentioned that chinese guy who picked up the english accent after listening to the same bit of content a thousand times.
Would you recommend this? and how long should that piece of content be, ideally (I think you said 15 mins)?
1qewretry 2 years ago
@1qewretry dude, i picked up the Portuguese accent by listening to the language, but not the same thing. i learned the language first, and then listened to the dialogues and did not fear in imitating it.
FadoDeo4444 1 year ago
Respect accents. Dont think you can nail it like that. Remember that a native speaker has had a lifetime to mold his/hers language/accent. I realized that when I was in Spain during my traineeship. I was arrogant to think I could nail the language in 5 months. Dont get me wrong, I learned to communicate, but I was far from having an intrinsic understanding of the language. So, dont patronize native speakers by acting like you have had 20-30 years like them to practice. Respect the natives.
u2bealot 2 years ago 10
Very nice! This is basically the story of how i learnd English.
Yperanthropoidsx 2 years ago 2
I have a lot of interest in phonetics, and I personally find the IPA helpful when tackling the pronunciation of a foreign language, especially for looking up the pronunciation of a word when I'm not sure of it.
Of course, Steve is right that there are too many subtle variations. The IPA isn't even precise enough to capture them all. Chinese tones, for instance, really need to be heard to be mastered, because no phonetic transcription will burn the right acoustical patterns in your brain.
AtomikNY 2 years ago 3
@AtomikNY To me the best way to pick out the sounds is either hearing the word alone or used in a dialog and then shadowing the speaker. And there will be variances in intonation depending on the posture you use and familiarity of content. In Japanese I can sometimes pull off sounding like a native, but other times I come off accentless. And I am okay with not sounding like a Japanese. Same goes for Chinese. If the tones are praticed to the point where a speaker can easily understand then good.
needmanshini 2 years ago
I think my accent is a part of my personality. If I speak english and put on an english accent (especially american english accent) I dont feel comfortable, because it is not a part of my personality - I would feel silly. The same goes for spanish. When spanish people speak they have a tendency to be more physical. I couldnt bring myself to use the mimics of spanish people, when I speak spanish, because it is so far away from my personality.
u2bealot 2 years ago 2
@u2bealot , for me I don't think personality has anything to do with it; the more you have listened to those languages the less common you'll do accent mistakes, in other words, to make sounds that doesn't even exist.
In short, listen more and the correct accent becomes natural.
1Pelito1 2 years ago 3
Interesting. I spoke fluent english from a young age, however I've always had a very, almost egregiously strong accent. Will I suddenly be able to change? probably not, though every now and again I pick up another small "trick" to modify how I sound. This "th" trick will come in handy.
yuriythebest 2 years ago
People who have a strong accent don't pay attention when they listen or don't have audio materials to listen to...
loki2504 2 years ago
hmm. well.
I think you need to work on accents yourself steve.
disiciliano 2 years ago
I am curious. Why should I work on my accents? They are what they are. I do the best I can. I imitate as best I can and I am satisfied. That is all we should expect of ourselves or of others for that matter.
lingosteve 2 years ago
Well I agree with a lot of points in your video.I have heard your accent in your videos speaking other languages.
Maybe Im just focusing too much on your portuguese videos. But I feel like your accent is too spanish.For me Im not satisfied witha foreign language until I can be mistakable as a native speaker.
I feel that you put a lot of effort into language learning, you wrote a book, have lingq. But I think that because you know so many languages you forget about the accents.
disiciliano 2 years ago 2
I have no illusions about my Portuguese nor do I aspire to be mistaken for a native. I learn language for fun and focus on listening and reading. When I speak my accent is at is, generally quite acceptable, but I am not mistaken for a native, nor are you I suspect.
lingosteve 2 years ago
@lingosteve ...you learn language for funn...mmmm...most of the people learn a foreign language for other reasons,better job opportunities,better salary,visit the country where the language is spoken,Steve, this is your retired project,for us is differnt ,we are younger ,for us is a necessity,for us it means even go and live in the country of our dreams,I don't criticize you ,I just tell you thet your aim in learning a foreigh language is completely different,we present exams,we go to classes,
phonicsquest 2 years ago 3
Don't be silly. People who enjoy their learning learn better.Also please don't make assumptions about the motivations of people learning languages, since you simply do not know.
lingosteve 2 years ago
@phonicsquest Steve is right.
speedproductions797 1 year ago
@phonicsquest i learn languages for fun. currently i speak three languages fluently and do it more for fun than anything else. i have no need in learning them, but i do so anyways.
FadoDeo4444 1 year ago
The link stopped working
concertmatell 2 years ago
I remember one thing that motivated me to obtain a great accent in Spanish when I was in high school was that there was this idea among a lot of the native Spanish speaking kids there that "white people couldn't pronounce Spanish." That annoyed me to no end, so I taught myself to have 'perfect' Spanish pronunciation to prove them all wrong. It was the people who didn't care about Spanish that "couldn't pronounce" it. If you're motivated to learn a language enough, you can do it.
NephilaClavata 2 years ago
@NephilaClavata
Funny "white people can't pronounce spanish" : I don't get it sorry
Spanish is a Romance language spoken in Spain (Europe, eg "white people")
SoleilOr 1 year ago
@NephilaClavata Those Spanish speaking kids obviously have never heard of Spain. lol
HeavyMetalAndWhiskey 1 year ago
i think the best way to learn how to pronouce things well is to repeat after a native speaker a lot. monkey see monkey do. i hear what youre saying about willing it to work though, i remember i used to pronounce the german r as a trilled r but then one day noticed it was wrong, and i was able to actively fix it even though the trilled pronunciation was pretty ingrained in my head lol.
xnightxamex 2 years ago
Entendu! :-)
surrected4526 2 years ago
steve, you say a limited amount of content. why not just a vast amount of content?
also, by limited do you mean a 20 minute from a text book or a 10 hour audiobook?
19fas88 2 years ago
Whatever works so that you do not get too bored, probably between 20-60 minutes. The point is that you will cover most sounds and rhythms of the language. The repetition of the same phrases and rhythms seems to engrave itself on the brain better. It is more intense than just listening to new content where you are listening for meaning and to train the brain.
lingosteve 2 years ago
Good video Steve. In my Japanese studies, I've been listening to different accents. When I went to Hiroshima on vacation I fell in love with their dialect. So, I've been trying to find as much 広島弁 audio and video that I can find. They change a lot of sounds though, but nothing that can't be trained. Such as だから changes to じゃけん and いる to おる. Most of my listening is still standard dialect however, but after I can master that the Hiroshima dialect is next.
shearoberts 2 years ago
I have just finished small research on learning languages. My argument is that listening helps people speake similar to native speakers because this way is like early immersion in children
rraassll 2 years ago 3
TRUE DAT
sharpie99111 2 years ago 7
Can you post the video link in the description please Steve? Thanks.
zocurtis 2 years ago