I once wanted one. But when I got one as a kid, I soon came to understand how tragic it was to write little text messages instead of talking to your friends, and playing stupid games instead of enjoying the wonders of the natural world. And since I rarely used it more than once a year, I got rid of it. And I'm glad I did, as for every day that passes, I see people more and more wasting away their lives on their cell phones. Even my own family. And it's sad to watch.
yes it is very sad to see so many people sucked into their machines. when i pass them, i think, "unavailable," as in unavailable for any type of real connection
also, rwg, if i wanted to be 'king,' wouldn't i be engaging in all of the insane promotion, etc., that people at the top of the youtube ladder engage in? wouldn't i *want* ratings, and lots of them?
Yeah, if you thought you could get good ones, and that's the problem.
I ran across this video, and when I went to rate it, I noticed the ratings were disabled, this is only done by those who, don't want bad ratings, in the same way that, nobody(that I know of) would disable favoriting videos, unless they ran risks of some kind of anti-favoriting.
That's the question I have, as favoriting works now, would you if you could, disable it, and why?
"this is *only* done by those who don't want bad ratings"
consider that there just *might* be more than one reason someone would want to disable ratings
i wouldn't disable favoriting, no, as i would want people who want to be able to access and share my videos to be able to do so. again, favoriting and commenting have to do with actual communication.
i explained earlier why i disable ratings--let me know what it is you don't understand
@pennilesscripple "favoriting and commenting have to do with actual communication. "
So do ratings, when I rate a video, it adds it to a list, and sends a link of it, to all of my friends. This is EXACTLY the same thing that favoriting does, and since you just admitted you wouldn't disable favoriting, and I just explained that the two share the feature you use to distinguish them, then I ask you, why would you not disable favoriting, yet you do disable ratings?
okay i didn't know about that feature. i've been on youtube for a long time; it didn't have that feature in the beginning. i don't do the 'friends' thing on youtube, and try not to get too sucked in to the functions
i explained why i disable ratings earlier. please tell me what it is you don't understand. i disable ratings to reflect the purpose and aesthetic of my channel. i disable ratings because i'm not interested in quantification and hierarchy, in reducing or being reduced to a number
i'm not a number, and i seriously don't care about the numbers game on youtube
are you intentionally trying to misunderstand me, or do you genuinely not understand? if you really want to understand, re-read my previous comments carefully. if you have questions after that, i'll be happy to answer them.
but really what is going on? why does this issue bother you so much? to me it's just part of my sad struggle to resist the machine the best way i know how. does it bother you that i don't comply?
ratings aren't a way of expressing an opinion, they are a way of judging and ranking. they are a symbol of a culture based on hierarchy
comments are not 'voting'; they are communication--ideally
i'm not really interested in 'testing my ideas,' whatever that means
i appreciate your willingness to discuss this issue--we obviously have very different world views, so it's valuable to try to understand each other's points
also ha i'm certain my ideas *aren't* accepted by mainstream society, given what i see in the world
that's why i struggle to make and post these videos. appreciated? well, when someone appreciates them, they tend to tell me. but that is rare, and i don't expect it.
kings have lots of ways of knowing how they are liked. they are historically obsessed with quantifying and promoting their popularity, as presidents are obsessed with polls.
okay thanks rwg i wondered what you meant by "speaks more"
i understand your point. now can you consider a *different* reason for disabling ratings? on the internet, we tend to project. I assumed that you liked the fact that i disable ratings, and you assumed i did it out of ego.
re:ego, check my user name.
are you familiar with the content & purpose of my videos? seems it is the kings & petty tyrants of this world who want ratings, stars, badges, accolades, hierarchies, all that crap
It's impossible to eliminate exposure coming from so many uncontrollable sources so it's best to minimize risk. Some Cell phones emit 5 times as much radiation than others so if you really have to have a cell phone than it's imperative to minimize exposure. I canceled my contract because I am sick of consumerism. The absolute need for Cell phones is based on fear and isolation. I miss the days of the pay phones.
what i meant was that cell phones are harmful in more ways than radiation
you don't have one, and i don't have one, but it's not about us--it's about what is happening to the culture and to humanity in general as the technoculture consumes us more and more
This past month in 2 separate incidents near my hometown,2 people died.They were both talking on cell phones while crossing the train tracks. I wish people would consider the effects these gadgets have on our lives.Technology is substituting for real human connections all too frequently.
my neighbor and i rarely make eye contact. her daughters are also afraid of noticing or being noticed by strangers, ie the people next door. this dwelling's an old mill workers' tenament duplex. through the thin shared wall that divides us we can hear each other loving and fighting. we can hear each other fart or laugh or cry or sneeze but we don't say geseuntheit.
hi penni. good to see you still fighting the good fight. never have owned a cell phone, never will. don't seem to need it... don't seem to need most of what most of the people i know can't seem to do without. mostly i like talking w/ people who are right here, making eye contact and such... but i like being able to see what youre thinking and talk with you. what's the price of this privilege tho? you always make me think, and question this whole set up. guiltily yours in the ethernet connection
I watched it and sent you an e-mail reply. I dont have a cell phone either. Doesn't mean every bit of technology is "evil." Technology has a broad meaning, not just the use for mass production.
Plus, we can make a "new" definition for the term technoilogy and use it for the benefit of human rights and comfort of life. Thats a big argument between say Chomsky and Zerzan. I think both are very sincere in there want for a better world. I think since we have to deal in some sort of reality with probabilities Chomsky makes more sense. To become a hunter gatherer "world" it woulkd take quite a bit of time to transition into a very smal human society, either that or it would be mass genocide.
that doesn't mean that cell phones (and industrial technological society) aren't killing us and the planet
yes 'technology' can be a stick or a bubble, but that is evading the point that industrial technology is harmful because it is used for destructive purposes and is based on profit and production (with lovely little stories laid over top about its 'benefits').
they definately disturb our peace and increase alienation. when i got rid of mine couple years ago i felt like i got rid of a big weight on my shoulder as well. i chucked it and felt free and never looked back! most of the places i like to be i didn't get no reception anyways! :)
You are an alarmist. As fucked as things are it doesn't mean it's all going to end tommorow night. We need to act, and just going into the woods isn't gonna fix it. Man, have you thought about the chaos? You don't understand civilization at all, and you've never witnessed the harsh realities of hunter/gatherers.
actually, you can't overstate the severity of the problem we face. are you familiar with national geographic's "six degrees"? perhaps that's a credible enough source for you.
life is ending TODAY for the tigers and the bears and the frogs and the bees and the bats and the songbirds--actually it's birth that is ending...there will soon be no more tigers born if we don't stop the harm now
your 'harsh realities' of the gatherer life are propaganda. try not to spit the lie of the dominant culture and call it research. read 'the original affluent society' by marshall sahlins, a well-respected anthropologist. it's available online.
From what I read, which is minimal, there is a thought that hunter gatherers only existed in true form very long ago and in which we do not have all the information. To base a new society on something that has holes probably is a bad idea. The transition would be deadly to the majority of the population. Not a good solution and neither is just not caring. Again, look in between somewhere.
to draw inspiration from a lifeway that worked for 99% of human existence is a very good idea
we have a great deal of information--you could devote your whole life to studying it
what *is* deadly is the continuation of this death machine called civilization--that is certain destruction, ongoing and future destruction
there is no compromise or middle ground when the entire system is flawed at the core--it is based on profit and production, therefore it will do nothing but harm
wat is ur point. welcome to earth. do u want to live forever? cellfones makes ourlives easier. use a bluetooth for god sake . when ur old dats wat happen, u blame technology. thats how we live. to destroys ourselves. thats human nature. thats why we have a short life span,
sorry but thats d truth. so enjoy life to its fullest. buy a blackberry,
... "enjoy life to the fullest," in this case, means, "don't think about the destruction. just close your eyes and close your ears and march to your doom."
exactly how do cell phones make life easier? i remember life before cell phones. do you? they haven't made anything easier, and they have done and are doing a lot of harm, as i make clear in the video.
there is a difference between a human or an animal living out his or her life span and a human or an animal suffering from the effects of mass culture and industrial technology
If we can gear the technology toward community, human rights, labor, housing, sustainability etc, that would be good. The problem is greed and the majority used for pure profit, and I agree thats wrong.
You obviously want the human population to dwindle down to next to nothing. You realize alot of people will die with your ideas correct? Like the majority of the human race?
you realize the crash of this system is inevitable?
you realize how devastating the crash will be?
if we act, we can lessen that harm.
to me, it looks like YOU'RE the one who wants a lot of people to die. by agreeing that civilization is a good thing, you're saying you want a lot of people to die.
we think civilization is bad because it kills people and plants and animals. you think civilization is good because you could care less about them.
Man, you are so judgemental. If people dont agree with your solutions they are blind(which is just drop everything and live on berries.)<- explain how we do that without killing almost every person on earth? Your fucking song isn't a method. I already told you I know what this system is causing. No kidding people die everyday. Your idea would kill off the majority of the population. I think we should shoot somewhere in between.
A sewer system is technology, and saves millions of lives, another instance. think about living with cultures who have raw sewage problems and die of diseases. In fact most deaths to infants in third world nations come from diarhea. Some technology is good, not perfect, but good.
You would get much further by not generalizing. It kills your arguments. Talk about the problems, a problem and re-phrase your ideas. When you generalize you do not help your arguments in any way.
Every action causes a reaction, even something that is considered very sustainable - and we need to work toward that, but to exclude technology, which isn't just a shitty mp3, it's advancement - a tool for gods sake.
i've been very specific and patient with you, antidote, in spite of your lack of respect. if you think i'm generalizing, then you aren't listening.
i understand that this topic is unsettling to you. it's interesting that you say technology is 'advancement' after supposedly listening to zerzan's talk. of course this culture has a lot of stories about how technology is making our lives wonderful--but guess what--they are all bullshit
all industrial technology has measurable environmental, social, and personal negative effects--and that doesn't count the negative effects we are not yet aware of
you have the burden of coming up with one, just one, example of industrial technology that does not harm people and the planet
Give me a link then that says every tecnological advance is bad. Thats my gripe. You can't even stay on subject. I am starting to believe you are truly full of shit. You cant even summarize your thoughts, thats pathetic and "tragic." Why should I listen to you if you cant' give me even one idea on one problem that might solve it? Yet you easily say all technology is bad.
i've given you heaps of information--have you listened to it? virtually all of my videos address these questions. if you want to know more, you can watch them.
your generalizations are upsetting, nothing else. Information doesn't bother me at all. I wont talk to you then, lol, who gives a shit...Your a preacher, thats it...
Ok, I watched the Zerzan vid. I agree alot with him however, it's actually our "capitalist system" that is gearing the technology toward standardization. Technology isn't non community - it's made to be that way. A guitar can bring community together, etc. That is technology mixed with community. This in no way proves all technology is bad, in fact I just gave an instance where it is good. His video doesn't offer a solution, not that it has to, but I thought thats what my question was.
he critiques civilization, of which capitalism is a part
a musical instrument is not industrial technology, unless it is created on an industrial scale. industrial production relies on extraction of materials through violence and coerced labor.
once again, the 'solution' is in the sidebar to this video
I feel ya. I fuckin hate my phone. It's yellow. Nothing wrong with depression BTW. A long term diagnosis means that you can claim money and get your rent paid without having to work some shitty job. Years ago you'd just starve in the gutter. And who says modern psychiatry is all bad? It has some uses. LOL
Yeah well work sucks, lots of things suck. What can you do about it? There's too many humans for this planet. That won't change any time soon. Things will just get more and more shit over a long period of time. Why should I care about it? Nobodies willing to give up the benefits of this civilisation including you. That doesn't mean it's justified, 'right' or 'wrong' or any of that bullshit. The fact is we are simply fucked. I don't see the point in getting wound up by it.
The internet is a benefit of civilisation that you are using right now. And you are probably using it in a house with gas, running water, etc. We are fucked, it's a fact. Do the math. How many humans alive today are entirely dependent on the fossil fuel economy? It is no coincidence that the population doubled since 1950. Overshoot and collapse. The collapse part is not going to be pleasant but why worry about it? You got to die of something and at least it won't be boring LOL
Solutions? Solutions on what? Everything? Christ, pick one small issue, then you tell me your idea and we'll go from there. Enough of this ridiculous generalizing.
(this solution is not possible within industrial civilization, so the real solution is abandoning that system)
depression and suicide are virtually unknown in indigenous and gatherer societies. the only time we hear about suicide in indigenous communities is when they decide to kill themselves rather than be taken over by civilization.
It hasn't been possible in any society yet, but industry isn't the neccessary cause here. It's current form is a huge problem. Supportive cooperative systems are an answer, but humans will create, period. Your mincing ideas. The problem is the current form of corporations which are unncaccountable tyrannies are undemocratic. You are really generalizing again.
the problem/solution paradigm is a big part of the culture of maximum harm. got a problem? here's the solution, that makes more problems, that call for a solution that makes more problems.....
the 'solution' is different for everyone. what is it for you? you might want to start with reading more about this issue if you are interested.
a conversation about how to find a way out of this disaster called civilization will not fit into a youtube comment box
This is a conversation of extremes. Logic is being tossed out of the window here. Yes, the industrial revolution has been disastrous, the evidence is clear, but to think technology should be forgone is ridiculous. We need to take each instance and examine it, and then fix it. Make things sustainable and throw away the failures. To think technology has zero benefits is mind boggling. Wow - two sides here completely subjective to their own "opinion" throwing logic out the window...
you don't think people have been trying to 'fix' things all along? a culture that is based on harm from its very roots cannot be fixed.
do you think all the people who came before you weren't concerned about these issues, and didn't try their best to 'fix' them? all of the solutions only create more problems.
i see no benefits to industrial technology, and a whole lot of damage.
So getting a medication that stops a simple infection from killing someone is no good? Since you see zero positivity in technology why aren't you living in the woods? Why are you on a "computer?" To have such an extreme ideology and doing what you are doing is beyond hypocritical. Who the fuck said I dont want safe water etc? I completely hate the fact that we are destroying the air water and soil.
I am totally aware of the antibiotic problems. How does this back up your point? The majority of the problems are in the abuse of the drug, such as in dairy products which lead to them not working. You suggest just dying then? Thats so silly I can't stop my gutlaugh.
i want a planet with tigers and bears on it. i don't want pictures of them on my big screen tv. i don't want to fly in a jet plane to see them in a 'sanctuary.'
i want an ocean with fish in it, not plastic. i want clean water for everyone, not dasani. i want healthy food for everyone, not frankenfoods. i want sane, supportive community for everyone, not isolating cities and prozac.
industrial civilization and its technologies are robbing us of our simple birthright.
.....and teenagers directing their anger towards each other. But I don't want the internet banned because of that. Without it, I wouldn't have had the chance to see or know half the things I do now. I wouldn't be conversing with many of you guys from all over the country, or even the world. We can't go backwards. Thats not how humans work. We keep pushing foward in hopes that eventually we will figure it all out. I think thats the whole point of "The Coil" Every struggle is a future victory.
i think if we could really see the damage that the internet has done and is doing, zrojh, we would recoil in horror
what you like is the pleasure of relationships and communication--the internet is not necessary for that to happen
we can't go backwards but we can move beyond civilization (that's the title of a great book about this issue by daniel quinn, by the way--check it out)
I was referring to "The Mortal Coil" or my interpretation of it. The reason man strives to do things better and faster. To achieve some sort of purpose to our existence. There is this quote on your page that caught my attention: "You can never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." I think that hold very true for me. I know I alone can't change the world, but I attempt to put forth an example to those around
"The machine of profit and production." I gotta say, that phrase has been in my head since the first time I saw this video. Made me realize why I sold my car, don't watch television with its billion adverts, or why I don't even own a cell phone. Those things aren't necessary for my personal survival, but they are useful tools for people. I'm sadden when I log on YouTube and find videos dedicated to anti-rational behavior, i.e.: Puppies being thrown, celebrities fornicating for the masses........
A main question to ask when new technologies are developed are their sustainability. When we get to the crux, labor, human rights, creativity, and sustainability are incredibly important. Unfortunately with our current capitalist model none of these are held in high regard. Only profit enters in reasoning for the existence of new technology etc. It's very unfortunate and can lead to the end of the species. Mind you, I love technology but those questions must be posed.
well the word 'sustainability' is really taking a beating these days--for example, i've heard of sustainable housing developments, and the ceo of walmart has dared to use the word in his propaganda statements
i think the main question about a new technology is 'why do we need it?'
and if we told the truth, the answer for the technologies of industrial civilization would be 'because we need to exploit people, harm the earth, and, above all, make money.'
Well I disagree here. Technology has cured disease etc. There are some good points. And no culture ever has been completely sustainable in the turest sense, not even tribes. We need balance. To say we shouldn't be creative anymore is absurd. Balance is the name of the game but there is no balance now. The exploitation of technology is a "choice," but not neccessary. We need to seperate those two ideas.
Nah, I rather annoy you because responses like the one you just made show your intelligence below Cromagnon levels. What kind of point was that? Fucking idiot...
Also, technology is use of science - tribes used the science of the day also to solve problems. To think that every facet of modern technology is evil is not being realistic. Actually it's just false.
all cultures have science, technology, medicine, the arts, education, etc.
it is anthropocentric to think that they do not
every facet of modern technology comes from a culture that is based on profit and production, so the technology will therefore be about exploitation and destruction
there are cultures based on the life and health of the people, and their technologies are about sharing and caring
Cromagnon weren't as stupid as we are now huh? Funny stuff. We are the same being only evolved to a higher state of being - what they did led to this. Part of creativity is technological. You are saying every advancement is evil. The tribes were then evil,every man since the beginning of time. Even tribes destroyed huge areas of land long ago. This is funny stuff...
What am I making up? enough bullshit. Tell me your solution. If you truly understand what you are saying you can give me a summary. Now you are saying that every solution "I might beleive in" causes another problem. Do your solutions do the same? Arrogant statement on your part. Plus, you can't swath over billions of problems with one answer. Each case is different.
you are making up "tribes destroyed large areas of land"
i refuse to give you a pat solution to a complex issue, and i am obligated to. see the sidebar if you want a 'plan.' *read* derrick jensen's endgame, john zerzan's 'twilight of the machines', and daniel quinn's 'beyond civilization' if you are interested in this topic, or if you don't want to read, watch related youtube videos by searching under those names.
Funny, my wife and I were watching a doc a year ago showing the destruction of land by tribes long ago, I believe in South America. You are wrong here. Sorry, you dont know everything and you shouldn't always say what other people research is not true. I think you should look at older societies closer. Still, what do you suggest we do currently?
i have read extensively in this field, and don't claim to be an expert, but know far more about 'older societies' than the average person, who only knows the crap he has picked up from a culture that thinks they were 'backwards'
gatherer societies are dependent on their land base. if they destroy their landbase, they destroy themselves. they simply don't do it, ever. it has never been documented.
i've given you plenty of direction toward finding the answers to your questions. i don't have a "master plan." too many people have too many master plans as it is--we don't need another one.
the simplest answer is in the sidebar to this video. it's up to you to follow through on finding out more if you are interested.
actually, every problem caused by industrial civilization will disappear when industrial civilization is abandoned. see zzz33333's early video 'awake.'
the problems are all different, of course, but they all share the same core cause. they all result from a culture that values profit and production instead of life and health.
I am against putting profit above air, water, soil, health, human rights, creativity, etc. This does not make every technilogical advance negative. I am asking about "some" solutions? You are being evasive here. You talk about not using a generalizing statement for a solution but you condemn all advances as if every thing done by man is just for profit which is in itself generalizing. Makes no sense. You do not use the same criteria for both sides of the argument. Thats a huge flaw.
I never said they always will be but we are here now correct? Assumptions again. Forget the use of the world evil - if you find nothing worthwhile in any technology then you dont find it positive, let's say that. Also, problem solving can create other problems - thats often the nature of it. Do your solutions lead to perfection? Interested in hearing the full proof plan you have that raises you up against problem solving. Which problem, which answer to it? Everyhting? LOL...
for a society that lives in fear of having to face up to oneself, fear of being alone, fear of reflection. fear of seeing themselves as they truly are, cellphones are a solution.
for a society that can't function without a scapegoat; can't drive/hold your phone up 2 your ear. unproductive at work; stand their 4 8 hours with a phone in your hand. unreliable; blame it on the phone, battery, service. weak people carry guns..out of touch people carry phones
i can't, and i'm not interested in proving that, and i'd actually be happy if they did, because maybe that would help people wake up to the harms of technology
or do you mean prove that cell phones (and industrialized society) are killing us? that's exactly what i set out to do in this video
honestly? i love my cellphone, as much as i love my macbook. anything else would be hypocrisy, especially if i didn't plan to participate in building a community that will make them unecessary.
:)
yeah, we want to buy the house we live in, and make our income (working towards jobless self-sustainability in the middle of the city) benefit us all, no matter how much each of us can contribute. we'll rent rooms to anyone who's willing to play by these simple rules, and hopefully set an example.
it's a dream, not a plan. i'm happy to share it with the most sensitive, thoughtful and ready-to-act people i got around... and most of us have lived through a quite secluded cult-like eco-community as kids, each in a different place inside, but all seeing the same problems.
secluded communities need much more than a common goal, or it turns into something really hateful, self-destructive. it can not work with so many people around and so much dependency. same with folks who had to attend some kind of dayschool or christian school. they all "know" how destructive it is, all you have to do is find those of them who got to the point of realizing that, and be around them and feel it seep your lungs like the scent of ripe fruit :)
interesting yeah we've all seen that in one way or another--it's a big thing that comes up when you talk with people about community
we have to realize that all of the players are wounded, and that forming community can heal those wounds, but it's far from easy because it's like swimming upstream in this culture
what do you think is the source of the destructiveness, satya? hierarchy?
i don't know, but it seems to be a very neatly interwoven shock-response. like, my parents were born in the last years of ww2 in (more or less rural) germany... they must have felt something simply outrageous fall to bricks very early in their lives, and it seems like they never recovered from the discovery of that secret into which it was made. the only grandma i had left in the early nineties murmured something like "well, in a way: they deserved it" into her scarf the year before she died.
i think that, being effectively involved with so much injustice leaves traces in everybody and everything. at least as long as it has no satisfying representation in the mythology, and a clearly spiritual "underpath" attached to it. somehow (speaking of toxic mimics).
so no, i don't think it's hierarchy per se, as it is more the combination of fear and incapability of action that leaves you dry and lonely in this so called culture.
fact is, our parents don't have much left for us, and it's shrinking and shrinking, so the first principle has to be "make a living by playing to -their- music". nevertheless it makes us sick to do so, and we know. we dream as hard as we can, and try to open doors...
i hope i haven't distracted this whole thread into meaninglessness ;)
now i'll have to take my time through the other new comments, people leave such excellent commentry on your vids... and you teach them so well (i'm reading "walking on water" by derrick jensen right now).
i thought about you when i made this video, mista, as it's a response to battles we've had in comments pages
you don't have a cell phone. may i ask why?
i don't have one either. and i want to move beyond to the individual to the social. just because i don't have one doesn't mean we are free from the harms they are causing to health, community, and the community of life.
we need to see the linkages between industrialized technology and pervasive harm and dismantle this madness
There's a myriad of reasons I don't have a cell phone. I think the only technology that should exist is the kind that does not harm the environment. Maybe that window is VERY small (you would probably say to the point of non-existence) but I believe we can only operate within these guidelines.
There are also social reasons I don't have one. Like Brian said above, cell phones contribute to stress and dis-ease.
okay so...we've been here before...but there is a sense in which a dream or a bubble or a stick can be called a technology
but of course i'm addressing the technology of industrial civilization, driven by the military and commerce, with the purpose of extracting the life force and turning it into bank accounts
can you give me an example of industrial technology that does no harm?
as for the 'social reasons,' yes industrial society does the same harm to humanity that it does to the earth
Well, satellites don't really cause very much harm. They did initially in the extraction of the resources, but they don't while they float around in space. They depend solely on solar energy and they are away from where all the life is. I'm not excusing the harm done in the extraction process. That's kind of an end justifies the means kind of thinking, and it's not just or sustainable.
Well, I'm not talking about what they're used for. They're used for any number of purposes. I'm talking about just the satellites themselves. I don't think anyone doubts we need a revolution in the realm of morality. Right now, nihilism dominates. No one is immune. That's separate from this. Government is not bad just because the power it bestows can be abused. Government has been a big source of good in the world. The consciences of the people are the problem. Not technology or government.
Great vid
allowishiesjackson1 8 months ago
hey thanks jackson
pennilesscripple 8 months ago
I once wanted one. But when I got one as a kid, I soon came to understand how tragic it was to write little text messages instead of talking to your friends, and playing stupid games instead of enjoying the wonders of the natural world. And since I rarely used it more than once a year, I got rid of it. And I'm glad I did, as for every day that passes, I see people more and more wasting away their lives on their cell phones. Even my own family. And it's sad to watch.
Great video! Thank you!
plathhs 9 months ago
yes it is very sad to see so many people sucked into their machines. when i pass them, i think, "unavailable," as in unavailable for any type of real connection
thank you for visiting
pennilesscripple 9 months ago
Thanks for posting this.
Mike82ARP 1 year ago
dammit.
i have one.
dammit.
Kirilltraceur 1 year ago
On a side note, I don't own a cell phone :)
TheReasonWhyGuy 1 year ago
me neither
see? we have more in common than we thought. :D
pennilesscripple 1 year ago
@pennilesscripple Yep :)
But I never said we didn't, I was just curiously questioning you motives, after declaring my first impression :)
Take care
TheReasonWhyGuy 1 year ago
also, rwg, if i wanted to be 'king,' wouldn't i be engaging in all of the insane promotion, etc., that people at the top of the youtube ladder engage in? wouldn't i *want* ratings, and lots of them?
pennilesscripple 1 year ago
"wouldn't i *want* ratings, and lots of them?"
Yeah, if you thought you could get good ones, and that's the problem.
I ran across this video, and when I went to rate it, I noticed the ratings were disabled, this is only done by those who, don't want bad ratings, in the same way that, nobody(that I know of) would disable favoriting videos, unless they ran risks of some kind of anti-favoriting.
That's the question I have, as favoriting works now, would you if you could, disable it, and why?
TheReasonWhyGuy 1 year ago
"this is *only* done by those who don't want bad ratings"
consider that there just *might* be more than one reason someone would want to disable ratings
i wouldn't disable favoriting, no, as i would want people who want to be able to access and share my videos to be able to do so. again, favoriting and commenting have to do with actual communication.
i explained earlier why i disable ratings--let me know what it is you don't understand
pennilesscripple 1 year ago
@pennilesscripple "favoriting and commenting have to do with actual communication. "
So do ratings, when I rate a video, it adds it to a list, and sends a link of it, to all of my friends. This is EXACTLY the same thing that favoriting does, and since you just admitted you wouldn't disable favoriting, and I just explained that the two share the feature you use to distinguish them, then I ask you, why would you not disable favoriting, yet you do disable ratings?
TheReasonWhyGuy 1 year ago
okay i didn't know about that feature. i've been on youtube for a long time; it didn't have that feature in the beginning. i don't do the 'friends' thing on youtube, and try not to get too sucked in to the functions
i explained why i disable ratings earlier. please tell me what it is you don't understand. i disable ratings to reflect the purpose and aesthetic of my channel. i disable ratings because i'm not interested in quantification and hierarchy, in reducing or being reduced to a number
pennilesscripple 1 year ago
"in reducing or being reduced to a number"
You already are...
3 numbers for this video, and 4 numbers for your channel.
You just removed a single number.
Video numbers are...
Favorite count, comment count, view count.
By allowing comments you are allowing yourself to be reduced to numbers, by allowing others to view this, you're being reduced to a view counter.
Your channel is reduced to; subscriber count, channel views, total upload views and channel comment total.
So, are you not a number?
TheReasonWhyGuy 1 year ago
i'm not a number, and i seriously don't care about the numbers game on youtube
are you intentionally trying to misunderstand me, or do you genuinely not understand? if you really want to understand, re-read my previous comments carefully. if you have questions after that, i'll be happy to answer them.
but really what is going on? why does this issue bother you so much? to me it's just part of my sad struggle to resist the machine the best way i know how. does it bother you that i don't comply?
pennilesscripple 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheReasonWhyGuy 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheReasonWhyGuy 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
==="and i seriously don't care about the numbers game on youtube"
If you truly don't, then why do you spend time after uploading each video, to disable ratings? You care about the numbers game to that extent.
It's like saying "I don't care about robberies" and then making sure your doors are locked before leaving.
==="why does this issue bother you so much?"
It doesn't, I'm just curious about how your mind works :), like I am with most people.
TheReasonWhyGuy 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheReasonWhyGuy 1 year ago
well i guess that's where you and i disagree, rwg
ratings aren't a way of expressing an opinion, they are a way of judging and ranking. they are a symbol of a culture based on hierarchy
comments are not 'voting'; they are communication--ideally
i'm not really interested in 'testing my ideas,' whatever that means
i appreciate your willingness to discuss this issue--we obviously have very different world views, so it's valuable to try to understand each other's points
pennilesscripple 1 year ago
also ha i'm certain my ideas *aren't* accepted by mainstream society, given what i see in the world
that's why i struggle to make and post these videos. appreciated? well, when someone appreciates them, they tend to tell me. but that is rare, and i don't expect it.
kings have lots of ways of knowing how they are liked. they are historically obsessed with quantifying and promoting their popularity, as presidents are obsessed with polls.
pennilesscripple 1 year ago
okay thanks rwg i wondered what you meant by "speaks more"
i understand your point. now can you consider a *different* reason for disabling ratings? on the internet, we tend to project. I assumed that you liked the fact that i disable ratings, and you assumed i did it out of ego.
re:ego, check my user name.
are you familiar with the content & purpose of my videos? seems it is the kings & petty tyrants of this world who want ratings, stars, badges, accolades, hierarchies, all that crap
pennilesscripple 1 year ago
Ratings have been disabled for this video.
Well that speaks more that the entire content of this video
TheReasonWhyGuy 1 year ago
thanks for noticing/acknowledging that, rwg
i disable ratings for all of my videos
do i get five stars for that? ;^P
pennilesscripple 1 year ago
Yeah I'm hearing people here and there kinda say that they're sick of cellphones too. Not often but sometimes.
The other day i heard "I'd quit using cellphones if they didn't get rid of payphones everywhere:("
They got rid of payphones! what the fuck!
Anyway I don't care, i've noticed the stress it's brought me. Fuck them. I'm going to get rid of mine soon enough.
samuelmichaud 1 year ago
No, it won't solve the linear production problem but it could save your brain.
canaan1967 1 year ago
The Environmental Working Group have a comprehensive list of safe and unsafe cell phones. You can even search for your model.
Just google: "EWG" "Cell Phones"
canaan1967 1 year ago
depends on how you define 'safe'
pennilesscripple 1 year ago
@pennilesscripple
"Safer"
It's impossible to eliminate exposure coming from so many uncontrollable sources so it's best to minimize risk. Some Cell phones emit 5 times as much radiation than others so if you really have to have a cell phone than it's imperative to minimize exposure. I canceled my contract because I am sick of consumerism. The absolute need for Cell phones is based on fear and isolation. I miss the days of the pay phones.
canaan1967 1 year ago
i hear that, thanks canaan
kinda scary to think that it's that way
what i meant was that cell phones are harmful in more ways than radiation
you don't have one, and i don't have one, but it's not about us--it's about what is happening to the culture and to humanity in general as the technoculture consumes us more and more
pennilesscripple 1 year ago
you're welcome, rippist
somehow i didn't see your kind comment before
thank you for the encouragement; i plan to make one about computers at some point
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
i love my cell phone :P
xxNeillxx 3 years ago
they've trained you well :P
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
My household has officially stopped using cellphones. Thanks for the motivation.
AdamHintz 3 years ago
wow adam
i like
like
don't know what to say
i'm happy for you
for me, it was easier...i never got one
but for people who already have one, i know it must be hard to...erm..."go back"
anyway i'm a bit overwhelmed that one of my videos actually made a difference
thanks
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
<3 :)
AdamHintz 3 years ago
woohoo! Cell phones FTW!
brandon9271 3 years ago
how come cell phones can give cancer but home telphones cannot? or does it?
lowertheboom 3 years ago
cell phones use radio waves
landlines don't
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
great poem my hubby has a skin cancer on the right side of his head .... uses his cell phone that side ?? ... yip xxx
nathippo 3 years ago
This past month in 2 separate incidents near my hometown,2 people died.They were both talking on cell phones while crossing the train tracks. I wish people would consider the effects these gadgets have on our lives.Technology is substituting for real human connections all too frequently.
AuroraKismet 3 years ago
yes very true aurora
they say it connects us but it actually deepens the isolation and alienation
indigenous cultures practice something called 'the precautionary principle' for introducing new technologies
our culture practices 'the greed principle'
i wish we had been practicing the precautionary principle when cars and bombs came down the pike....
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
wild stuff! thanks for creating this! i only use a cell phone when absolutely needed!
PhilosopherFresh 3 years ago
The electronic leash. Aren't cell phones also thought to be cause of the absence of bees?
bendymind 3 years ago
yeah there are a lot of other negative consequences i didn't touch on, bendy
(youtube attention span--aim for under sixty seconds) :o)
as for the bees, that's one of the hypotheses--but whatever it is, it's clear civilization is killing them
the bats and amphibians and reptiles are taking really hard hits too
it's beyond tragic
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
damn, new comments to read but no time left, gotta leave for work. cya!
(i'm most delighted about your subscribtion, thank you very much!)
zilchersatya 3 years ago
my neighbor and i rarely make eye contact. her daughters are also afraid of noticing or being noticed by strangers, ie the people next door. this dwelling's an old mill workers' tenament duplex. through the thin shared wall that divides us we can hear each other loving and fighting. we can hear each other fart or laugh or cry or sneeze but we don't say geseuntheit.
medicinesocks 3 years ago
sigh
welcome to the fragmentation and alienation of mass society.....
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
hi penni. good to see you still fighting the good fight. never have owned a cell phone, never will. don't seem to need it... don't seem to need most of what most of the people i know can't seem to do without. mostly i like talking w/ people who are right here, making eye contact and such... but i like being able to see what youre thinking and talk with you. what's the price of this privilege tho? you always make me think, and question this whole set up. guiltily yours in the ethernet connection
medicinesocks 3 years ago
very nice to see you again sockling
i agree face to face is best, and i'd love to be your neighbor
i guess my best response to the issue you raise would be what chellis glendenniing says in my video 'never be fooled' (it's like 25 seconds long)
take care :o)
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
antidote watch zzz33333's latest video
and consider it my reply
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
I watched it and sent you an e-mail reply. I dont have a cell phone either. Doesn't mean every bit of technology is "evil." Technology has a broad meaning, not just the use for mass production.
antidote7 3 years ago
Plus, we can make a "new" definition for the term technoilogy and use it for the benefit of human rights and comfort of life. Thats a big argument between say Chomsky and Zerzan. I think both are very sincere in there want for a better world. I think since we have to deal in some sort of reality with probabilities Chomsky makes more sense. To become a hunter gatherer "world" it woulkd take quite a bit of time to transition into a very smal human society, either that or it would be mass genocide.
antidote7 3 years ago
the comfort of civilized life at the top of the pyramid, i take it you mean.
we have mass genocide. it's called industrial civilization. it wiped out the arawak. it's about to wipe out the bees and the frogs.
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
you don't have a cell phone
i don't have a cell phone
that doesn't mean that cell phones (and industrial technological society) aren't killing us and the planet
yes 'technology' can be a stick or a bubble, but that is evading the point that industrial technology is harmful because it is used for destructive purposes and is based on profit and production (with lovely little stories laid over top about its 'benefits').
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
they definately disturb our peace and increase alienation. when i got rid of mine couple years ago i felt like i got rid of a big weight on my shoulder as well. i chucked it and felt free and never looked back! most of the places i like to be i didn't get no reception anyways! :)
RolnThundr 3 years ago
wow interesting thundr thanks for that
i know that feeling--it's the same feeling i had when i got rid of my television about a decade ago
don't look back or you'll turn into a pillar of salt :P
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
You are an alarmist. As fucked as things are it doesn't mean it's all going to end tommorow night. We need to act, and just going into the woods isn't gonna fix it. Man, have you thought about the chaos? You don't understand civilization at all, and you've never witnessed the harsh realities of hunter/gatherers.
antidote7 3 years ago
actually, you can't overstate the severity of the problem we face. are you familiar with national geographic's "six degrees"? perhaps that's a credible enough source for you.
life is ending TODAY for the tigers and the bears and the frogs and the bees and the bats and the songbirds--actually it's birth that is ending...there will soon be no more tigers born if we don't stop the harm now
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
your 'harsh realities' of the gatherer life are propaganda. try not to spit the lie of the dominant culture and call it research. read 'the original affluent society' by marshall sahlins, a well-respected anthropologist. it's available online.
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
From what I read, which is minimal, there is a thought that hunter gatherers only existed in true form very long ago and in which we do not have all the information. To base a new society on something that has holes probably is a bad idea. The transition would be deadly to the majority of the population. Not a good solution and neither is just not caring. Again, look in between somewhere.
antidote7 3 years ago
..... you need to read more.
zzz33333 3 years ago
to draw inspiration from a lifeway that worked for 99% of human existence is a very good idea
we have a great deal of information--you could devote your whole life to studying it
what *is* deadly is the continuation of this death machine called civilization--that is certain destruction, ongoing and future destruction
there is no compromise or middle ground when the entire system is flawed at the core--it is based on profit and production, therefore it will do nothing but harm
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
wat is ur point. welcome to earth. do u want to live forever? cellfones makes ourlives easier. use a bluetooth for god sake . when ur old dats wat happen, u blame technology. thats how we live. to destroys ourselves. thats human nature. thats why we have a short life span,
sorry but thats d truth. so enjoy life to its fullest. buy a blackberry,
eliasaau 3 years ago
... "enjoy life to the fullest," in this case, means, "don't think about the destruction. just close your eyes and close your ears and march to your doom."
zzz33333 3 years ago
exactly how do cell phones make life easier? i remember life before cell phones. do you? they haven't made anything easier, and they have done and are doing a lot of harm, as i make clear in the video.
there is a difference between a human or an animal living out his or her life span and a human or an animal suffering from the effects of mass culture and industrial technology
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
eliasaau, you said 'we live to destroy ourselves--that's human nature'
hm well humans lived for 99% of their existence without destroying themselves, so i'd say it's decidedly *not* human nature
it is the nature, however, of industrial civilization to consume life
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
If we can gear the technology toward community, human rights, labor, housing, sustainability etc, that would be good. The problem is greed and the majority used for pure profit, and I agree thats wrong.
antidote7 3 years ago
okay so now the problem is that people are greedy?
and your plan for stopping that is....?
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
antidote--your link
'environmental disaster in the cradles of civilization' proves my point
civilization destroys the landbase
you're not understanding the difference between civilized societies and hunter/gatherer/indigenous societies
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
You obviously want the human population to dwindle down to next to nothing. You realize alot of people will die with your ideas correct? Like the majority of the human race?
antidote7 3 years ago
... you realize a lot of people die every day?
you realize the crash of this system is inevitable?
you realize how devastating the crash will be?
if we act, we can lessen that harm.
to me, it looks like YOU'RE the one who wants a lot of people to die. by agreeing that civilization is a good thing, you're saying you want a lot of people to die.
we think civilization is bad because it kills people and plants and animals. you think civilization is good because you could care less about them.
zzz33333 3 years ago
Man, you are so judgemental. If people dont agree with your solutions they are blind(which is just drop everything and live on berries.)<- explain how we do that without killing almost every person on earth? Your fucking song isn't a method. I already told you I know what this system is causing. No kidding people die everyday. Your idea would kill off the majority of the population. I think we should shoot somewhere in between.
antidote7 3 years ago
.... what would that "somewhere in between" look like?
zzz33333 3 years ago
okay antidote i'm done with you
i have been beyond patient, beyond generous, and you have continued to be disrespectful
conscious music points the way. if you have ears you can hear it.
the fact that you say 'fucking song' tells me a lot about you, and none of it ist pretty
go play with inmendham--he's more your type
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
A sewer system is technology, and saves millions of lives, another instance. think about living with cultures who have raw sewage problems and die of diseases. In fact most deaths to infants in third world nations come from diarhea. Some technology is good, not perfect, but good.
antidote7 3 years ago
raw sewage happens when people live in cities--civilization. the third world is also a result of civilization.
why are you so attached to industrial technology?
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
So we should stop living, so thats your answer, lol.
antidote7 3 years ago
Speak through e-mail, this format is to limiting...
antidote7 3 years ago
we should stop living in civilization, yes
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
You would get much further by not generalizing. It kills your arguments. Talk about the problems, a problem and re-phrase your ideas. When you generalize you do not help your arguments in any way.
Every action causes a reaction, even something that is considered very sustainable - and we need to work toward that, but to exclude technology, which isn't just a shitty mp3, it's advancement - a tool for gods sake.
antidote7 3 years ago
i've been very specific and patient with you, antidote, in spite of your lack of respect. if you think i'm generalizing, then you aren't listening.
i understand that this topic is unsettling to you. it's interesting that you say technology is 'advancement' after supposedly listening to zerzan's talk. of course this culture has a lot of stories about how technology is making our lives wonderful--but guess what--they are all bullshit
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
Since you claim all technology is bad you have the burden of proving it.
antidote7 3 years ago
all industrial technology has measurable environmental, social, and personal negative effects--and that doesn't count the negative effects we are not yet aware of
you have the burden of coming up with one, just one, example of industrial technology that does not harm people and the planet
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
It's plain ignorant. You are telling me that ancient civilizations haven't used their land in an unwise way? Now you are revising history.
antidote7 3 years ago
ancient civilizations? yes, they used their land in an unwise way, just like all civilizations have. that is why they collapsed.
hunter/gatherers? current indigenous communities that have not been encroached on by civilization?
no, they did not and do not abuse their land. their land is their life. it would be unthinkable to them.
civilization, by definition, extracts the life force from outside its land base (that is, other people's land and the life that lives on it)
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
Give me a link then that says every tecnological advance is bad. Thats my gripe. You can't even stay on subject. I am starting to believe you are truly full of shit. You cant even summarize your thoughts, thats pathetic and "tragic." Why should I listen to you if you cant' give me even one idea on one problem that might solve it? Yet you easily say all technology is bad.
antidote7 3 years ago
We need to blow it all up!
ronniesrevenge 3 years ago
okay i'm a pathetic idiot and full of shit
so stop talking to me
i've given you heaps of information--have you listened to it? virtually all of my videos address these questions. if you want to know more, you can watch them.
why is this conversation so upsetting to you?
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
your generalizations are upsetting, nothing else. Information doesn't bother me at all. I wont talk to you then, lol, who gives a shit...Your a preacher, thats it...
antidote7 3 years ago
i give a shit, that's who
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
Ok then, I'll watch it.
antidote7 3 years ago
you can also watch virtually any video by zzz33333, itsfilthy, or pennilesscripple, as well as many others
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
Ok, I watched the Zerzan vid. I agree alot with him however, it's actually our "capitalist system" that is gearing the technology toward standardization. Technology isn't non community - it's made to be that way. A guitar can bring community together, etc. That is technology mixed with community. This in no way proves all technology is bad, in fact I just gave an instance where it is good. His video doesn't offer a solution, not that it has to, but I thought thats what my question was.
antidote7 3 years ago
zerzan does not critique capitalism
he critiques civilization, of which capitalism is a part
a musical instrument is not industrial technology, unless it is created on an industrial scale. industrial production relies on extraction of materials through violence and coerced labor.
once again, the 'solution' is in the sidebar to this video
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
here's your link:
watch vaahti's video "john zerzan on technology"
i have been staying on subject throughout
i have also been respectful even when you haven't
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
I feel ya. I fuckin hate my phone. It's yellow. Nothing wrong with depression BTW. A long term diagnosis means that you can claim money and get your rent paid without having to work some shitty job. Years ago you'd just starve in the gutter. And who says modern psychiatry is all bad? It has some uses. LOL
ronniesrevenge 3 years ago
tragic
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
not as tragic as flippin burgers
ronniesrevenge 3 years ago
that comment is tragic as well
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
Yeah well work sucks, lots of things suck. What can you do about it? There's too many humans for this planet. That won't change any time soon. Things will just get more and more shit over a long period of time. Why should I care about it? Nobodies willing to give up the benefits of this civilisation including you. That doesn't mean it's justified, 'right' or 'wrong' or any of that bullshit. The fact is we are simply fucked. I don't see the point in getting wound up by it.
ronniesrevenge 3 years ago
i don't see any 'benefits' to civilization, so i wouldn't be giving anything up--walking away from civilization would mean gaining, not losing
i have more faith in humanity than you do, apparently
people who say 'we're fucked and there's nothing we can do about it' are a big part of the problem
in fact, if you're not working, you can do more about it than most
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
The internet is a benefit of civilisation that you are using right now. And you are probably using it in a house with gas, running water, etc. We are fucked, it's a fact. Do the math. How many humans alive today are entirely dependent on the fossil fuel economy? It is no coincidence that the population doubled since 1950. Overshoot and collapse. The collapse part is not going to be pleasant but why worry about it? You got to die of something and at least it won't be boring LOL
ronniesrevenge 3 years ago
it's not a benefit, it's a tool, and a destructive one at that.
we are fucked IF WE DO NOT ACT.
civilization is the scourge of this planet.
zzz33333 3 years ago
If it didn't have any benefits then why the fuck are you using it?
ronniesrevenge 3 years ago
Solutions? Solutions on what? Everything? Christ, pick one small issue, then you tell me your idea and we'll go from there. Enough of this ridiculous generalizing.
antidote7 3 years ago
problem: depression and suicide
solution: supportive cooperative community
(this solution is not possible within industrial civilization, so the real solution is abandoning that system)
depression and suicide are virtually unknown in indigenous and gatherer societies. the only time we hear about suicide in indigenous communities is when they decide to kill themselves rather than be taken over by civilization.
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
It hasn't been possible in any society yet, but industry isn't the neccessary cause here. It's current form is a huge problem. Supportive cooperative systems are an answer, but humans will create, period. Your mincing ideas. The problem is the current form of corporations which are unncaccountable tyrannies are undemocratic. You are really generalizing again.
antidote7 3 years ago
I'd love to hear your solution?
antidote7 3 years ago
the problem/solution paradigm is a big part of the culture of maximum harm. got a problem? here's the solution, that makes more problems, that call for a solution that makes more problems.....
the 'solution' is different for everyone. what is it for you? you might want to start with reading more about this issue if you are interested.
a conversation about how to find a way out of this disaster called civilization will not fit into a youtube comment box
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
This is a conversation of extremes. Logic is being tossed out of the window here. Yes, the industrial revolution has been disastrous, the evidence is clear, but to think technology should be forgone is ridiculous. We need to take each instance and examine it, and then fix it. Make things sustainable and throw away the failures. To think technology has zero benefits is mind boggling. Wow - two sides here completely subjective to their own "opinion" throwing logic out the window...
antidote7 3 years ago
you don't think people have been trying to 'fix' things all along? a culture that is based on harm from its very roots cannot be fixed.
do you think all the people who came before you weren't concerned about these issues, and didn't try their best to 'fix' them? all of the solutions only create more problems.
i see no benefits to industrial technology, and a whole lot of damage.
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
So getting a medication that stops a simple infection from killing someone is no good? Since you see zero positivity in technology why aren't you living in the woods? Why are you on a "computer?" To have such an extreme ideology and doing what you are doing is beyond hypocritical. Who the fuck said I dont want safe water etc? I completely hate the fact that we are destroying the air water and soil.
antidote7 3 years ago
are you not aware of the very serious problems that the use of antibiotics has led to just in the past few decades?
i do live in the woods
where i question the assumptions of this culture
and i use this culture's tools to do that
just as tecumseh used the white man's rifle to defend himself and his people
a hypocrite does the opposite of what he advocates--i advocate questioning
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
I am totally aware of the antibiotic problems. How does this back up your point? The majority of the problems are in the abuse of the drug, such as in dairy products which lead to them not working. You suggest just dying then? Thats so silly I can't stop my gutlaugh.
antidote7 3 years ago
i'm glad you hate that this culture is destroying the air water and soil
i do too
no the fuck anybody said you don't want safe water etc.
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
i want a planet with tigers and bears on it. i don't want pictures of them on my big screen tv. i don't want to fly in a jet plane to see them in a 'sanctuary.'
i want an ocean with fish in it, not plastic. i want clean water for everyone, not dasani. i want healthy food for everyone, not frankenfoods. i want sane, supportive community for everyone, not isolating cities and prozac.
industrial civilization and its technologies are robbing us of our simple birthright.
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
Fuck Cell Phones.
fkaminer 3 years ago
.....and teenagers directing their anger towards each other. But I don't want the internet banned because of that. Without it, I wouldn't have had the chance to see or know half the things I do now. I wouldn't be conversing with many of you guys from all over the country, or even the world. We can't go backwards. Thats not how humans work. We keep pushing foward in hopes that eventually we will figure it all out. I think thats the whole point of "The Coil" Every struggle is a future victory.
zrojh 3 years ago
i think if we could really see the damage that the internet has done and is doing, zrojh, we would recoil in horror
what you like is the pleasure of relationships and communication--the internet is not necessary for that to happen
we can't go backwards but we can move beyond civilization (that's the title of a great book about this issue by daniel quinn, by the way--check it out)
what is "the coil"?
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
I was referring to "The Mortal Coil" or my interpretation of it. The reason man strives to do things better and faster. To achieve some sort of purpose to our existence. There is this quote on your page that caught my attention: "You can never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." I think that hold very true for me. I know I alone can't change the world, but I attempt to put forth an example to those around
zrojh 3 years ago
"The machine of profit and production." I gotta say, that phrase has been in my head since the first time I saw this video. Made me realize why I sold my car, don't watch television with its billion adverts, or why I don't even own a cell phone. Those things aren't necessary for my personal survival, but they are useful tools for people. I'm sadden when I log on YouTube and find videos dedicated to anti-rational behavior, i.e.: Puppies being thrown, celebrities fornicating for the masses........
zrojh 3 years ago
A main question to ask when new technologies are developed are their sustainability. When we get to the crux, labor, human rights, creativity, and sustainability are incredibly important. Unfortunately with our current capitalist model none of these are held in high regard. Only profit enters in reasoning for the existence of new technology etc. It's very unfortunate and can lead to the end of the species. Mind you, I love technology but those questions must be posed.
antidote7 3 years ago
well the word 'sustainability' is really taking a beating these days--for example, i've heard of sustainable housing developments, and the ceo of walmart has dared to use the word in his propaganda statements
i think the main question about a new technology is 'why do we need it?'
and if we told the truth, the answer for the technologies of industrial civilization would be 'because we need to exploit people, harm the earth, and, above all, make money.'
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
Well I disagree here. Technology has cured disease etc. There are some good points. And no culture ever has been completely sustainable in the turest sense, not even tribes. We need balance. To say we shouldn't be creative anymore is absurd. Balance is the name of the game but there is no balance now. The exploitation of technology is a "choice," but not neccessary. We need to seperate those two ideas.
antidote7 3 years ago
Stick to you stupid music antidote.
fkaminer 3 years ago
Nah, I rather annoy you because responses like the one you just made show your intelligence below Cromagnon levels. What kind of point was that? Fucking idiot...
antidote7 3 years ago
the cromagnon weren't as stupid as the civilized people alive today who believe that civilization is sustainable
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
what is your definition of sustainable? human beings lived sustainably for 99% of their existence. is that not long enough?
i never said anything about ending creativity. people are always creative. this culture is based on violence, not creativity.
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
Also, technology is use of science - tribes used the science of the day also to solve problems. To think that every facet of modern technology is evil is not being realistic. Actually it's just false.
antidote7 3 years ago
all cultures have science, technology, medicine, the arts, education, etc.
it is anthropocentric to think that they do not
every facet of modern technology comes from a culture that is based on profit and production, so the technology will therefore be about exploitation and destruction
there are cultures based on the life and health of the people, and their technologies are about sharing and caring
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
Cromagnon weren't as stupid as we are now huh? Funny stuff. We are the same being only evolved to a higher state of being - what they did led to this. Part of creativity is technological. You are saying every advancement is evil. The tribes were then evil,every man since the beginning of time. Even tribes destroyed huge areas of land long ago. This is funny stuff...
antidote7 3 years ago
"what they did led to this"
how are You sure of this????????
i believe that is a misconception.
contraelgobierno 3 years ago
antidote you have just revealed a rather deep ignorance about cultural anthropology
making up 'facts' to support your views seriously undermines your credibility
why is it so important to you to think that man has always been and will always be, as you say (and i never did say) "evil"?
are deer evil? are birds evil? are frogs evil? why would there be only one living being on the planet who is evil?
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
What am I making up? enough bullshit. Tell me your solution. If you truly understand what you are saying you can give me a summary. Now you are saying that every solution "I might beleive in" causes another problem. Do your solutions do the same? Arrogant statement on your part. Plus, you can't swath over billions of problems with one answer. Each case is different.
antidote7 3 years ago
you are making up "tribes destroyed large areas of land"
i refuse to give you a pat solution to a complex issue, and i am obligated to. see the sidebar if you want a 'plan.' *read* derrick jensen's endgame, john zerzan's 'twilight of the machines', and daniel quinn's 'beyond civilization' if you are interested in this topic, or if you don't want to read, watch related youtube videos by searching under those names.
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
Yes, so the documentaries I saw were lies. I am not making it up. Just because you dont know about it does not mean I made it up.
antidote7 3 years ago
which documentaries? if they said that gatherers destroyed their landbase, yes, they were not accurate
there is no record of any such destruction in the literature--that type of destruction only comes at the hand of civilized societies
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
Funny, my wife and I were watching a doc a year ago showing the destruction of land by tribes long ago, I believe in South America. You are wrong here. Sorry, you dont know everything and you shouldn't always say what other people research is not true. I think you should look at older societies closer. Still, what do you suggest we do currently?
antidote7 3 years ago
what was the name of the documentary?
i have read extensively in this field, and don't claim to be an expert, but know far more about 'older societies' than the average person, who only knows the crap he has picked up from a culture that thinks they were 'backwards'
gatherer societies are dependent on their land base. if they destroy their landbase, they destroy themselves. they simply don't do it, ever. it has never been documented.
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
i've given you plenty of direction toward finding the answers to your questions. i don't have a "master plan." too many people have too many master plans as it is--we don't need another one.
the simplest answer is in the sidebar to this video. it's up to you to follow through on finding out more if you are interested.
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
actually, every problem caused by industrial civilization will disappear when industrial civilization is abandoned. see zzz33333's early video 'awake.'
the problems are all different, of course, but they all share the same core cause. they all result from a culture that values profit and production instead of life and health.
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
I am against putting profit above air, water, soil, health, human rights, creativity, etc. This does not make every technilogical advance negative. I am asking about "some" solutions? You are being evasive here. You talk about not using a generalizing statement for a solution but you condemn all advances as if every thing done by man is just for profit which is in itself generalizing. Makes no sense. You do not use the same criteria for both sides of the argument. Thats a huge flaw.
antidote7 3 years ago
I never said they always will be but we are here now correct? Assumptions again. Forget the use of the world evil - if you find nothing worthwhile in any technology then you dont find it positive, let's say that. Also, problem solving can create other problems - thats often the nature of it. Do your solutions lead to perfection? Interested in hearing the full proof plan you have that raises you up against problem solving. Which problem, which answer to it? Everyhting? LOL...
antidote7 3 years ago
Great insight, very true. People need to examine their worth or lack of.
antidote7 3 years ago
thank you antidote
and then--if/when they find the quotes i posted in the sidebar to be true, what next?
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
for a society that lives in fear of having to face up to oneself, fear of being alone, fear of reflection. fear of seeing themselves as they truly are, cellphones are a solution.
for a society that can't function without a scapegoat; can't drive/hold your phone up 2 your ear. unproductive at work; stand their 4 8 hours with a phone in your hand. unreliable; blame it on the phone, battery, service. weak people carry guns..out of touch people carry phones
DEATHINKING 3 years ago
wow DT thanks for that
very well put
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
prove it dumb ass
shepehh 3 years ago
prove that cell phones don't pop corn, you mean?
i can't, and i'm not interested in proving that, and i'd actually be happy if they did, because maybe that would help people wake up to the harms of technology
or do you mean prove that cell phones (and industrialized society) are killing us? that's exactly what i set out to do in this video
did you watch it? or just read the title?
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
honestly? i love my cellphone, as much as i love my macbook. anything else would be hypocrisy, especially if i didn't plan to participate in building a community that will make them unecessary.
:)
yeah, we want to buy the house we live in, and make our income (working towards jobless self-sustainability in the middle of the city) benefit us all, no matter how much each of us can contribute. we'll rent rooms to anyone who's willing to play by these simple rules, and hopefully set an example.
zilchersatya 3 years ago
oh satya i always get a woogly feeling in my spine when people talk about loving machines :(
i use technology but don't love it & never will--i love folks it connects me to, but would much rather be with them face to face
i totally relate to your need for real community, but i often think "planning" & "building" are part of what got us into this dire situation
why should self-sustainability be something that can only be bought? that's not freedom, is it?
you raise some troubling questions...
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
i do?
it's a dream, not a plan. i'm happy to share it with the most sensitive, thoughtful and ready-to-act people i got around... and most of us have lived through a quite secluded cult-like eco-community as kids, each in a different place inside, but all seeing the same problems.
zilchersatya 3 years ago
wow satya you are in a unique position, as part of the second generation of people who are trying to live in a connected community
i think the first thing we have to do is admit we don't know how to do it--we've been 'trained true from birth to search for greed' as z says
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
secluded communities need much more than a common goal, or it turns into something really hateful, self-destructive. it can not work with so many people around and so much dependency. same with folks who had to attend some kind of dayschool or christian school. they all "know" how destructive it is, all you have to do is find those of them who got to the point of realizing that, and be around them and feel it seep your lungs like the scent of ripe fruit :)
zilchersatya 3 years ago
interesting yeah we've all seen that in one way or another--it's a big thing that comes up when you talk with people about community
we have to realize that all of the players are wounded, and that forming community can heal those wounds, but it's far from easy because it's like swimming upstream in this culture
what do you think is the source of the destructiveness, satya? hierarchy?
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
i don't know, but it seems to be a very neatly interwoven shock-response. like, my parents were born in the last years of ww2 in (more or less rural) germany... they must have felt something simply outrageous fall to bricks very early in their lives, and it seems like they never recovered from the discovery of that secret into which it was made. the only grandma i had left in the early nineties murmured something like "well, in a way: they deserved it" into her scarf the year before she died.
zilchersatya 3 years ago
i think that, being effectively involved with so much injustice leaves traces in everybody and everything. at least as long as it has no satisfying representation in the mythology, and a clearly spiritual "underpath" attached to it. somehow (speaking of toxic mimics).
so no, i don't think it's hierarchy per se, as it is more the combination of fear and incapability of action that leaves you dry and lonely in this so called culture.
zilchersatya 3 years ago
well put, satya
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
fact is, our parents don't have much left for us, and it's shrinking and shrinking, so the first principle has to be "make a living by playing to -their- music". nevertheless it makes us sick to do so, and we know. we dream as hard as we can, and try to open doors...
what can i say, maybe you know what i mean :)
zilchersatya 3 years ago
i think i do
it's sad that as hard as some of us try not to be part of the system, we find we have to--at least for now
that tells us something of the pervasive nature of civilization
i just keep my face turned toward the sun, like the plants :o) turning away from the machine and toward human being
keep on opening those doors satya
i'm really glad you're here
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
i think its good what your doing. real people are better than all of these " toxic mimics"
LimpLoser 3 years ago
thank you
yes they are
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
i hope i haven't distracted this whole thread into meaninglessness ;)
now i'll have to take my time through the other new comments, people leave such excellent commentry on your vids... and you teach them so well (i'm reading "walking on water" by derrick jensen right now).
zilchersatya 3 years ago
good book
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
I don't have a cell phone.
mistaspot1 3 years ago
i thought about you when i made this video, mista, as it's a response to battles we've had in comments pages
you don't have a cell phone. may i ask why?
i don't have one either. and i want to move beyond to the individual to the social. just because i don't have one doesn't mean we are free from the harms they are causing to health, community, and the community of life.
we need to see the linkages between industrialized technology and pervasive harm and dismantle this madness
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
It's good to be thought about.
There's a myriad of reasons I don't have a cell phone. I think the only technology that should exist is the kind that does not harm the environment. Maybe that window is VERY small (you would probably say to the point of non-existence) but I believe we can only operate within these guidelines.
There are also social reasons I don't have one. Like Brian said above, cell phones contribute to stress and dis-ease.
mistaspot1 3 years ago
okay so...we've been here before...but there is a sense in which a dream or a bubble or a stick can be called a technology
but of course i'm addressing the technology of industrial civilization, driven by the military and commerce, with the purpose of extracting the life force and turning it into bank accounts
can you give me an example of industrial technology that does no harm?
as for the 'social reasons,' yes industrial society does the same harm to humanity that it does to the earth
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
Well, satellites don't really cause very much harm. They did initially in the extraction of the resources, but they don't while they float around in space. They depend solely on solar energy and they are away from where all the life is. I'm not excusing the harm done in the extraction process. That's kind of an end justifies the means kind of thinking, and it's not just or sustainable.
mistaspot1 3 years ago
are you kidding me, mista?
what are satellites *used* for?
they were invented for military purposes.
they are used by the military for...let's see, what is it the military does? oh right. it *drops bombs.*
and they are used by the corporatocracy to accelerate the rate at which business is done--do i need to list the many harms that result from that?
you think satellites are just pretty, harmless decorations floating in space?
pennilesscripple 3 years ago
Well, I'm not talking about what they're used for. They're used for any number of purposes. I'm talking about just the satellites themselves. I don't think anyone doubts we need a revolution in the realm of morality. Right now, nihilism dominates. No one is immune. That's separate from this. Government is not bad just because the power it bestows can be abused. Government has been a big source of good in the world. The consciences of the people are the problem. Not technology or government.
mistaspot1 3 years ago