...I can help you get out of the Satanic Deception of Calvinism. The "first premise is this:
Christ is in Isa.42:1 called "the Elect", and in Isa.43:10 called "the Chosen". (it's not about us, it's about Christ. In the new covenant, "if we be IN CHRIST", "we become a NEW Creature". That posits that, only when we are "in Christ", then and only then, do we become what He already is ("the Chosen" ,and " the Elect") Calvinism turns everything upside down, trying to put the emphasis on Us.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, with which He has blessed us in the Beloved."
@Bill244888 ...It seems every one who bellieves in this Satanic deception called "reformed theology", needs a reading lesson. (In your case Eph.1:3-6) When that text records,"even as He",(God) chose "Us in Him", (Christ, the chosen) It is only as we "by Faith" accept the gospel, get "born again" by the "washing of the water of the word", and the "Sanctification of the Spirit"(Jn.3:5) ( Sanctification being a 'second work of grace', which Calvinist's deny) Then and only then, do we become ...
...."in Him", (As He, Christ, is the "chosen" and the "elect", and we being "in Him", then makes us the same as He is, thereby we become "chosen" and "elect", not BEFORE salvation, but AFTER salvation. The "predestination" concerns Gods plan of Salvation,(i.e. The gospel of the Kingdom) which we only can attain to BY FAITH in Christs redemptive work on Calvary. Another point to mention, is that we are Not saved from our past, present, and future sins, as falsely claimed by calvinists...
...we are only saved from our "past sins" up until that moment, That is why we need an "advocate" (Jesus Christ) with the Father, as "sin nature" is still present even after we are "born again" (1.Jn.1 and 2) This proves teh fallacy of "un-conditional Eternal Security", (an Un-biblical Heresy, and Satanic Lie) that No scripture will uphold, (except for the "twisting" of scriptural passages that Calvinists are known for)
It seems that everyone who can't surrender their pride and submit to God's sovereignty in the salvation of men needs a lesson in theology. Who did God choose? He chose "us" believers.
You claim Christ was chosen . . . from what group? For there to be a choice God must have had other alternatives. Who were they?
@Bill244888 ...I have been in ministry since 1963, show me some respect, as you come across as a real "arrogant Twitt". Now if you can find Isa. 42:1, and 43:10, go ahead and read it, and if you have "half a brain" then you go figure, and answer your own "dumb question"
"I have been in ministry since 1963, show me some respect,"
I meant no disrespect, I have legitimate questions about your twisted theology.
By the way - time in the ministry doesn't give you an automatic pass on being held accountable for the truth. You might want to consider the description of the Bereans, or Paul's charge to the Galations in chapter 1.
@Bill244888 ...Your superficial humility is pathetic. You have No "Legitimate questions". Only an arguementative and deceptive Spirit. Your knowledge of scripture does not even measure up to my "ankles" , and you have the audacity to call what I have presented to you "twisted theology". Calvinism IS Twisted theology en mass !!!
I just discovered minutes ago, that "JackMwolf" has already soundly Trounced your stupid Logic and Twisted theology on the "Calvinism expose and refuted". Deceiver !!
WOW, I sure hope I can measure up to your ankles someday!
Just curious, what bible translation do you "preach" from?
I just really feel led to share this with you . . .
Rom. 12:3
"For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned."
@Bill244888 ... I don't care for your stupid arrogance, but I shall answer you about Acts. 13:48. First of all like all "Brainwashed' Calvinists, you try to build your (lack of) eschatology, on one verse. Next; you demonstrate that you have No linguistic skills in Koine Greek, (so I am not going to explain "the passive voice or as in this case the "middle voice" intended in this text, as found in the Greek) If you read that passage in context from verse 46, that the Greek word "tasso",...
...meaning "appointed", simply means that God has 'appointed ' and provided eternal life "for all" who will believe. (Jn.3:15-20,Rom.1:16, 10:9-10, 1.Tim.2:4, 2.Pet.3:9, Rev.22:17, any questions ? ) It could Never mean in the light of these passages (Ezek.18:23,32, 31:1, 2:Pet.3:9, 1:Tim.2:4, Act.2:21, Rom.10:13, Jn.3:16-21) that by God's predetermined decree, certain ones are to be "saved" and others "lost".Predestination is never that of individual conformity of the will to salvation
...without man's choice, but rather that God has predestined a plan that all who conform will be saved, and all who do not, will be damned. It is the Plan, not the act of teh will, that is "predestined". The Jews who rebelled here in verse 46, failed to meet the terms of being "appointed" to etarnal life, while the believing Jews and Gentiles who gladly accepted the terms of the Gospel, were "appointed",(Gr."tasso") to the blessings promised All who will believe I am done reponding to you !
I wont even bother to comment on the inadequacy of your post because your final statement:
"Calvinism turns everything upside down, trying to put the emphasis on Us"
Is just so completely ludicrous, so completely ignorant that it doesn't merely turn Reformed Theology on its head, it reveals that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Any pretence at credibility you might like to think you had just went sailing out the window. Completely ridiculous.
skalapunk...Your deceptive promotion of calvinism,(actually "Aurelius Augustinian-ism") is biblically unfounded. All the sriptures you present are typical "twisted" out of context passages based on your "reading into them" the idea of calvinism. That is because you calvinist have a "form of Godliness" but you deny the power thereof. Your premise is "skewed" and "tilted", because you do not understand teh scriptures. I am a missionary/Bible prophecy teacher, and if you will care to listen,...
@skalapunk ....Several of the passages you posted in your video, are Not relevant to the discussion, but here is your error, (as I do not have time for a long 'drawn out discussion') it really is not that difficult to understant, if you will just try to "take off" you calvinist "glasses", and read what i allready gave you, (Isa.42:1, 43:10) Christ is the "Chosen", , and "predestination" concerns "Gods PLAN of SALVATION", known as the "Gospel of the Kingdom". All of this hinges on "hearing"...
...the "Word of truth", ( the gospel of Jesus Christ, not the FALSE gospel of Calvin and "reformed theology") and "Believing" the gospel, and being born by "water and by the Spirit". (Not water baptism, but the "washing of the water of the word", and the "sanctification by the Spirit",(this last part, which Calvinists deny) Only then are we "In Him",(Christ) and since He is the "Chosen" the "Elect", we by faith of OUR belief and FAITH in the work on Calvary, BECOME at THAT POINT IN TIME ...
@sorens70601 Then why is the grammatical object of the word "chosen" people, not a plan. Seems that someone is wrong and it isn't the Bible. The Bible says "he chose us before the foundation of the world", not "he chose a plan." It says "he predestined us", not "he predestined a plan"
@skalapunk ...If you read 1.Cor.2:6-8, and 10-14, you will discover that there are Two different Premises, for understanding God's Word. Those of us that are "called to be teachers" in the word, teach it according to "spiritual wisdom" that God gives, "comparing spirittual things with spiritual". ( I dont' expect you as a Calvinist to really understand this) The other "premise" is the "wisdom of the World" which it is clear that you all are "trying" to apply ! (how be it, if as you all have ...
...demonstrated ) you all do not understand Greek, your groping around in modern fraudulent Bible lexicons, that come from the "Egyptian papyrii" source, which was contaminated by Eusebius, Wescott/Hort et al, then you all will not find the Truth, only "grammatical confusion". Now to your question; As already pointed out, with scripture reference (Isa.42 and 43) Christ is the "Chosen" and the "Elect". God's "Plan of Salvation" was what was "predestined". When we by FAITH acccept God's ...
..."predestined plan of Salvation", and become "born again", we automatically become "In Christ", and as such partake of the being "chosen" and "Elect". What part of this don't you understand ????
A question for Calvinists: Demas in the bible was never saved in the first place? If not, how about Judas? He was never saved? How then did Judas heal the sick, perform miracles and cast out devils, when Jesus said Satan cannot cast out Satan
"how about Judas? He was never saved? How then did Judas heal the sick, perform miracles and cast out devils, when Jesus said Satan cannot cast out Satan"
"For the Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”
According to Jesus it doesn't sound like he was welcomed into heaven to me.
The disciples were given this power by Christ, not Satan
@Bill244888 explain please how Judas was able to cast out devils, yet Jesus said Satan can't cast out Satan......you are claiming Satan was casting out Satan, as you are saying Judas never was saved, but being used by the Lord from the start. or is it you mean, devils are not Satan? but still, if Judas was casting out devils, that's the same, no?
Judas was not Satan. If you would read Luke 22:3 you would see that there was a point in time when Satan entered Judas, but this was AFTER the disciples returned from being sent out by Christ.
Gad can and does used unsaved to accomplish His will . . . Pharaoh comes to mind
@Bill244888 Matt10:1-15, Judas cast out demons, healed sick, raised dead.....when Jesus said Satan cannot cast out Satan he did not mean Satan cannot cast out only Satan, but that demons cannot cast out other demons, no? or? yes Jesus said he knew Judas from the start, but this is where it gets confusing
The earlier reference I mentioned in Luke 22:3 mentions a point in time (after the disciple returned from healing, casting out demons, etc.) when Satan entered Judas.
There is no reference that I know of that states that Judas was an incarnate demon from birth.
@Bill244888 said no Judas was an incarnate demon from birth....Genesis 3:15 and thou shalt bruise his heel....Psalm 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend,eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me …John 13:18 I know whom I have chosen: that scripture be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me... Matthew 26:50 And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus and took him......"that is? or am i wrong?"
@Bill244888 ...I decided to respond one more time to your question to "@hemet92544", simply to reveal your "utter ignorance" about the scriptures, in your question,quote; "Was Judas Saved? If so, based on what text " ? Acts 1:17 says; "For He was 'numbered' with Us, and had,(past tense) 'obtained' part of this ministry". Such would not have been possible, if Judas was not "saved". (as in
"born again" by the "washing of the water of the word", and sanctification by the Spirit", something..
...you Calvinist Cultists cannot understand or recognize) Acts.1:20 claims that Judas had a "bishoprick",(that is a spiritual position in the "New Covenant Gospel" of Christ's ministry, (as referring to the Church, which began in the river Jordan, under John the Baptists ministry, Lk.16:16. but I suppose your "ignorant" mind will not allow you to understand this either) The 'bishoprick' that Judas "had obtained"
(because he was saved) is spoken of in Ps.109:8, as "his Office",(to be taken..
...away, and given to another) In fact Ps. 109:1-15 deals with Judas, as well as Ps.41:9 and Ps.69:25-28. (maybe you should get "caught up" on some reading of the scriptures Bubba, and be sure to use the KJV) For scriptures on 'Bishops' ,try
Acts.20:28, Phil.1:1, 1.Tim.3:2, Tit.1:1, 1.Pet.2:35. Acts 1:25, concludes with the fact that Judas, "by transgression Fell", (that means "Backslid", a biblical term) He "fell from Grace" by own self will.So much for your stupid "eternal security")..
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law."
"All that the Father gives Me WILL come to me, and whoever comes to Me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING of all that He has given Me, but raise it up on the last day."
A Question Calvinist can't clearly directly answer, children that are beaten, some raped and even murdered, God preordained this before their birth is what a true Predestined Elected Calvinist believes, but will not admit it. examples are JonBenét Ramsey, Dennis Rader and John Wayne Gacy, Jr. who molested and killed 33 teenage boys. Since we live in the New Testament now, thus sins are not passed down through parents, what possible answer is valid from a Calvinist? None
A Question Calvinist can't clearly directly answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. You might reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”.....see, point made, you can't answer clearly
Oh wait, let me guess. You're referring to 2 Pet. 3:9, right?
Who is Peter speaking to in 2 Peter chapter 3? The beloved (i.e. fellow believers).
Verse 9 says God is patient towards whom? You, the same people he is speaking to at the beginning of the chapter. God is patient towards His elect until their number is completed.
You're doing the very thing this video accuses you of. You take one verse out of context and ignore the mountain of scriptural evidence against what your "tradition" has taught you.
"I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.(JESUS ONLY PRAYS FOR THE ONES GIVEN TO HIM BY THE FATHER) I pray for them I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. All I have is yours, and all you have is mine.
This is so sad : ( I pray the Lord will open the eyes of those who think their salvation lies in their own hands... Are you more powerful than God, by no means? Does the Lord not have control over His creation, dos the Lord not plan you life according to His will; so how then does He not plan your Salvation..When you meet your maker what are you going to say to Him? Do you know the fastest way to Hell is Heaven? I pray the Lord would reveal His will to you all!!
It seems your basic point is that Arminians take verses out of context, and ignore other verses. But then again, so do Calvinists - so does everyone. The most obvious example for Calvinists is Rom. 9.13 being taken out of context. Everyone ignores the literal meaning of certain verses - sometimes in a way to completely twist the meaning of a text.
Also, yes, Arminians misrepresent Calvin, but Calvinists do the same to Arminian theology, as your video demonstrates.
@neoclassicism1 True. I made this video a long time ago when I was new to this debate. I apologize for any strawmen. I left the video up simply becauseit shows a lot of the arguments I've heard non-Calvinists make over the years.
@skalapunk Thank you for your honesty; it makes such a refreshing change from much of the self-righteousness exhibited by many on Youtube. Once again, many thanks, and may God bless you.
If we are to choose if we are saved by Gods grace, then we deserve some of the glory. God is in control of EVERYTHING including our salvation. My brother isn't a christian. I don't want to pray to a God that has his hands tide behind his back and has no controle over my brothers salvation. God has full controle over my brothers salvation. We are all sinners deserving of hell, but we can be saved through Gods grace. Not our own.
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse."
@Bill244888 What does this prove? These words were written by someone who believed in superstitions and fairy tales. This proves nothing. The existence of God is speculative at best. Religion is archaic and has run its course. It's time to accept logic, not live life by self-enslaving, self-debasing beliefs.
@skalapunk So God created us? Who created God then? Bing Bang Theory is probably not true but it´s a good approach and it seems alot more logical than what the Bibel says. Believe in whatever you want, but don´t argue with logic, when you´re talking about religion pls
The entire cosmos came into existence from one explosion? And the matter that supposedly exploded came from where? What initiated the explosion since nothing existed?
Believing that nothing, without an outside cause became something is more logical than believing the bible's account of creation? So this is what passes for logic these days?
Man, our education system is worse than I thought.
@Bill244888 vacuum fluctuations, anthropic principle, multiverse, Casimir experiment.... ever heard of these things? it has been proved already that out of vacuum, energy/matter can spontaneously come up. and yes that is a lot more logical than saying our world is a few thousand years old, even though we have already found objects on this earth that are older than the bible´s date of creation. Education you´re talking about? how about Witches or the world being a plate you still believe in that?
@Bill244888 since when is science a religion? I never said that. And no I can´t demonstrate it because it´s to expensive for me but science can demonstrate it for you, take a look at the casimir experiment. Or even CERN, it could be possible that they´ll create a mini universe inside ours with that machine they got, we don´t know but at least sciences trys to figure it out and doesn´t just say; God is eternal. so believe in whatever you want but dont tell me anything about logic/education
It's what you've chosen to believe and place your faith in, no?
The funniest things is all of these "theories" you've mentioned are rooted in the structured and ordered laws of physics. Doesn't that ever lead you to wonder if there was a structurer?
@Bill244888 religion and science are completely different, the meaning of science is to prove and understand. The meaning of religion to put your faith into something. It doesn´t want to prove anything, actually if it was a fact that the christian God existed I don´t think you could call christianity a religion anymore, it´s about believing, you can´t just lump them together. btw. I never ruled out the possibilty of a creator, just don´t believe in a personified God like the christians/muslims
Science is a valued by both the Christian and the atheist, but for very different reasons. The atheist observes the world around him and presumes that man is the pinnacle of all knowledge and understanding. The Christian observes the world around him and sees the order and structure of it all and is humbled and in awe of God's wisdom and power.
@Spooman11 Some Christians believe that God created a mature planet. After all, he didn't plant seeds, he created trees. A fully grown mature garden. He didn't create a fetus, he created a fully grown man. He didn't create a flat landscape hoping for terrain to form, he created mountains and valleys.
In other words the idea that the world is physically young yet shows an older age is a possibility. So that science shows an older age for earth in no way debunks the creation account.
@skalapunk I was talking about Dinosaurs and Neanderthals and other archaeological findings that proof the world is older than the Bible´s proposed creation date, or do you really think God buried dead Dinosaurs under the earth?
@skalapunk God didn't try to fool anyone,He made the plants before the sun, how long would flora last without sunshine?He tells us He made everything fully formed and functioning,so if someone today could go back to the 6th day, everything would look likes it's been there a long time,Really,God stressed the fact that it was 6 actual days in a few places,of course we can't say that there weren't a few people who were not of much importance,left out of the genealogy,but not millions of people.
@Bill244888 The difference is quantum physics, is complex and we don´t quite get it yet, but Christianity has already been proved wrong on soooo many aspects; earth center of the universe, planets and stars supposed to be in our atmosphere, Witches, World being a plate, Adam and Eve.... dude I could go on and on and on. Believe whatever you want, but don´t tell me anything about education or logic
"Christianity has already been proved wrong on soooo many aspects; earth center of the universe, planets and stars supposed to be in our atmosphere, Witches, World being a plate, Adam and Eve"
Earth center of the universe . . not taught in the bible
Planets and stars supposed to be in our atmosphere . . . not taught in the bible
@Bill244888 I apologize for my words. I realize your faith is important to you and I have no right to criticize it or you. I do not wish for an argument. Long live Russia!
BTW, God predestined the CHURCH not individuals........you can join the Church thru faith ......or not,........ but there will be a Church God predestined it!!
@willpower242 Why would any reader assume that the verses speaking of predestination were for a faceless, nameless group, not the individuals that make up the group? Seems like wishful thinking.
willpower God predestined many people before the foundation of the world to have their sins forgiven and all their wrath poured out on His Son. Jesus had to take all their wrath,for every sin, Jesus took the wrath for these predestined people alone, Jesus did not take the sins away or the wrath away for the goats because God has much wrath left to pour out on them.Since God has wrath left to pour out on the wicked,that means Jesus never died for all men,head for head or there's be no wrath left.
@skalapunk only thing Jesus preached was Judaism - Christianity has very little to do with Jesus. He wouldn't even recognise the church today - Catholic, Protestant, non - conformist - they are all the same - despite the doctrinal arguments. None of them has much to say about Jesus anyway - it's all Paul - usually taken out of context. Attributing the ideas of man to God is not respectful to God. Can you imagine what Jesus might have said to those Arguing about Calvin and Arminius?
@skalapunk It's part of my job to read it. Try getting a proper degree in biblical studies from a proper university instead of from a fundamentalist bible college, and then you will understand.
@anniemaggie53 I dont have a degree in any sort of biblical studies. But thanks for the advice. (dozens of the greatest theologians in church history who are fluent in Greek disagree with you by the way, not just little ole country bumpkin me)
@skalapunk I am a country bumpkin too - brought up on a remote farm. But In England you never live more than 60 miles from a major university city. Yes, you are correct about the theologians - I think it's all down to how you view the bible - and we are NEVER going to agree on that! But a good discussion is great brain exercise. Take care.
If a parent sees a child run out into the middle of a highway will a loving parent "let him choose" or will the parent "impose his will on the child to save him". Think about it...
@skalapunk "The difference between me and JW's is my verses are in context."
No, the difference between you and them is WHO's teachings you follow-- They are disciples of Charles Taze Russell, YOU are a disciple of Augustine & Calvin.
@skalapunk " So if I use the Bible to demosntrate my beliefs, I'm wrong? Gotcha."
Wow listen to yourself-- how many denominations do we have out there? Don't they all "use the Bible to demonstrate" their beliefs? According to you, they CAN'T be wrong. "Gotcha". Your highly-inflated ego is clouding your ability to think rationally.
possibly could do with looking up what 'heresy' actually means. Do you really think Paul & Jesus (on your list of 'they are preaching the heresy of sovereign grace') are preaching heresy?? Awkward.
@skalapunk "The doctrines that are contained within the nickname "calvinism" existed in church history and theological thinking long before John Calvin was ever born. See what i mean?"
Wrong. Any signs of "calvinism" date back to the converted Manachanean Augustine, 400 Years after the Scriptures were written and Stoic, philosophical beliefs.
@Isaiah1v18 Funny cuz when someone asks me to show why I believe what i believe, I bust out my Bible and show them certain passages. I don't bust out anything from augustine or anyone else.
The bible alone is sufficient and it stands alone with no reference to calvin or augustine or anyone else. There goes your argument. Next?
@Isaiah1v18 The difference between me and JW's is my verses are in context. Next argument? You can always tell someone is grasping at straws when they resort to personal attacks and ad hominems and other logical fallacies.
Sorry isaiah, 2000 years of church history won't be trumped by your youtube argumentation.
v18 No, it doesn't. Again, all you have is assertions."
Really? Acknowledge what I've written & prove it.
Deut.30:11 "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. Deut. 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you LIFE & DEATH, the blessing and the curse. So CHOOSE life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, Paul confirms the subject is FAITH regarding this commandment in Rom.10
@skalapunk Your calvinism is wrong, it makes God one of Partiality & easily refuted. Deut.30:11 "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
Deut. 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you LIFE & DEATH, the blessing and the curse. So CHOOSE life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
Paul confirms the subject is FAITH regarding this commandment in Rom.10
@Isaiah1v18 No, it doesn't. Again, all you have is assertions. You haven't actually provided evidence for the claim that God is one of partiality. Remember, Calvinist believe in UNCONDITIONAL eleciton. Meaning there are no conditions found in men that attracts God's attention towards them. But rather, it is your own view that has God being attracted to certain ones over others because of the way those men act. That means YOUR God is showing partiality. Your argument backfires against yo.
@skalapunk Calvinists believe God saves men out of undeserved grace and mercy not because certain men are just smarter or more spiritual than other men (thus rewarding them for their attributes). That's your god not mine
@Isaiah1v18 Your ignorant mistake is assuming Calvinism has anything to do with John Calvin. Why don't you learn a little bit about something before you start romping around like a bull in a china shop? It's always the people who know the least about a subject that think they know the most.
@Isaiah1v18 The doctrines that are contained within the nickname "calvinism" existed in church history and theological thinking long before John Calvin was ever born. See what i mean?
Bro, what i believe is what Christians have always believed for 2000 years. You're "freewill decisio- ism cooperate with Jesus cuz Jesus can't save me by himself" theology is is not only brand new in the context of church history, but it is unbiblical, it paints Jesus as a begger rather than king, and it robs God's glory. The fact that ALL of the historical church creeds, counsels, and confessions of faith align with what I believe, and not what you believe, is the elephant in the room here
@droptozro skalapunk isn't interested in TRUTH. He's only interested in using his "5-Points" as a Rosetta Stone into deciphiring the Scriptures. He's a lost-cause. You're wasting your time.
Luke 13:34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! "
hey, skalapunk, it's been awhile since we've talked. just wanted to drop you a line and encourage you to keep up the good work. this video cracks me up every time
Arminian, freewill works mongers do not need clearer exposition to have ears that can hear and eyes that can see they need a new birth only God can give. Fight the good fight of faith. Let any man who comes with any other gospel than The Gosepel be accursed!
Its interesting...people dont think a loving God could elect or choose...yet Ephesians says "IN LOVE HE PREDESTINED US"...Armenians...use your head and read the Word. That is all.
Calvinists! Use your head... that's about your method of Salvation, Christ---HE was predestined, not you.
I'm not an Arminian either.. just read context, it's very clear that's about the Jews who were given all those things. The Jews were those who first trusted in Christ(v. 12). I can give multiple other references if you'd like--but its clear from Acts 19 who Paul taught first, disciples of John being Jews--they were elders in the church. Paul always wrote/spoke to Jew first
@droptozro Sorry bro, the Bible says in Eph 1 "He chose US in him before the foundation of the world" it doesn't say "he chose Christ before the foundation of the world"
God chose people to be saved. That's what the bible teaches. If God hadn't done this nobody would be saved because all men by fallen nature are hostile to God andfind the gospel foolish. Without election/predestination, heaven would be empty.
"He chose US in Him.." is the Jewish people--they were chosen before the foundation of the world(see Romans 9 and Romans 11:1-8).
See verses 3-12 are about the Jews(and their past with God), verse 13-14 are about the Gentiles. See clearly that verses 3-12 says "us, our" over and over... then at verse 13 it changes to "you, our" See the context brother. God didn't choose individuals for salvation, I can prove to you exactly what I said above with multiple Scripture references.
@droptozro Bro Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles, not the Jews. In Ephesians, he is writing to the church at Ephesus. The church at ephesus was established by Paul himself. It is pure assertion on your part, so far. Not convincing.
"In Ephesians, he is writing to the church at Ephesus" It's not pure assertion, I told you I can give you multiple Scripture references. Start with Acts 19, Disciples of John would have been Jews. So Paul's original disciples and more than likely elders were Jews. "We,us" Paul is a Jew--switches to "you, our" at verse 13-14, very clear switch. Next, notice clearly in Acts(and all else) Paul always went to the Jewish synagogues first, if rejected then Gentiles.
@droptozro There's no exegetical argument you can make from the text of Ephesians itself to support your ideas. Thus, you have literally, no case. At all. Wishful thinking.
"wishful thinking"--you're just drawing up unbiblical means of interpretation to hold onto your position. I gave you plenty of Scripture interpreting Scripture and you're rejecting it brother. Take a look at the evidence, it's airtight--it's not about you or I, but Jews in the past and Paul's describing all the things they were given. If you're really after the TRUTH, you'll search it out and see if what I present matches or not. God bless
@droptozro Do you not understand what I mean by an exegetical argument? I will say it again, you cannot make an exegetical argument from the text of Ephesians to bolster any of your claims. You are just asserting it and assuming everyone will agree with you. When Paul says he chose us in Him, he's talking about believers. All believers are adopted as God's sons.
"You are just asserting it and assuming everyone will agree with you. When Paul says..."
You're doing the same, except you have no Scripture to back it up? So who is asserting?
Who were those to first trust in Christ then? Answer that question for yourself?
If we cannot interpret Scripture with Scripture, better not use the synoptic Gospels to find more information, and we cannot interpret prophecy with later/older revelation. Your "exegesis" destroys Biblical understanding
@skalapunk "chose US in Him ...foundation of the world" Deut 4:37, Deut 7:6, Isa 41:8-11, Psalm 33:12, Rom 11:1-7 Jews
Eph 1:5, "adoption" Rom 9:3-4, Rom 8:15, Gal 4:5, Jews
Eph 1:9 "mystery of His will" see Eph 3:5-7 this was revealed to the Jews, they didn't see it though.
Eph 1:11 "predestined..inheritance.. His will" Christ was the method predestined, He is the way to inheritance(see Gal 3 and Gal 4), not individuals to salvation. 1 Peter 1:20
"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
"Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily."
Paul also warned against falling away from the faith multiple times. Something Calvinists do not believe in because of "Perserverance of the Saints".
@TheJCFan Bro, Paul warned against it. He didn't say it could actually happen.Did you ever stop to realize that the warnings and imperatives in the Bible are exactly the tool, the means God uses to keep his own children so that they do not ever truly and finally fall away? Again, you are arguing against something you know so little about. The people that know the least are the ones that think they know the most. Trust me, i was there once. in your shoes. I was against calvinism.
@skalapunk You do not warn your child not to go out into the street if theres no chance they can be hit by a car. And trust me, I once believed Calvinism to be true. It was the most miserable time of my Christian life. I lost my joy, my peace, my love and my desire to spread the gospel because it wasnt in my hands anyway. So much for Jude 1:22. Why should we love those that God hates and doesnt desire to save anyway? We cannot have a greater love than God. Sorry but Calvinism is a lie.
@TheJCFan Do Calvinist know who is pre-destined? No! Therefore, we should spread the gospel and love them either way. If you were once a Calvinist, that should of been your most submissive and humble stages of your Christian walk. God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy on. If you do not understand the love of God, then you'll never understand predestination....
@TheJCFan Then clearly you didn't understand Calvinism. And stop with the assertions. It's arminianism that is a lie bro. It asserts that God tries and fails. It asserts that Jesus' blood was wasted. It asserts that God has no idea who his Bride is but just gets lucky that certain people join the body. It's a spit in the face of God's sovereignty and glory.
"Again, you are arguing against something you know so little about." I find that insulting to say the least. You have no idea of my experience or knowledge in the scripture and you dare make a statement like that? I've noticed that a lot of Calvinists take the same position. They know more than the average Christian, which I believe to be the reason why they rarely escape the corruption they have backslidden into. Gods mercy upon you. Peace
@TheJCFan No bro, I know more about Calvinism than you, not about Christianity than you. I dont mean that to sound insulting, but I've told you many times you argue against strawmen. DO you know what a strawman is? It isn't meant to be a personal attack on you. It's to say that the real thing is not the way you are describing it, thus when you attack it, you aren't attacking the real thing, but a misconception.
No point in responding as two of my responses were 'Zapped out" just after I posted them
sorens70601 6 days ago
...I can help you get out of the Satanic Deception of Calvinism. The "first premise is this:
Christ is in Isa.42:1 called "the Elect", and in Isa.43:10 called "the Chosen". (it's not about us, it's about Christ. In the new covenant, "if we be IN CHRIST", "we become a NEW Creature". That posits that, only when we are "in Christ", then and only then, do we become what He already is ("the Chosen" ,and " the Elect") Calvinism turns everything upside down, trying to put the emphasis on Us.
sorens70601 1 week ago
@sorens70601 So everytime the NT uses the word "elect" it is referring to Christ?
skalapunk 1 week ago
@sorens70601
Then how does this fit?
Eph. 1:3-6
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, with which He has blessed us in the Beloved."
Bill244888 1 week ago
@Bill244888 ...It seems every one who bellieves in this Satanic deception called "reformed theology", needs a reading lesson. (In your case Eph.1:3-6) When that text records,"even as He",(God) chose "Us in Him", (Christ, the chosen) It is only as we "by Faith" accept the gospel, get "born again" by the "washing of the water of the word", and the "Sanctification of the Spirit"(Jn.3:5) ( Sanctification being a 'second work of grace', which Calvinist's deny) Then and only then, do we become ...
sorens70601 6 days ago
...."in Him", (As He, Christ, is the "chosen" and the "elect", and we being "in Him", then makes us the same as He is, thereby we become "chosen" and "elect", not BEFORE salvation, but AFTER salvation. The "predestination" concerns Gods plan of Salvation,(i.e. The gospel of the Kingdom) which we only can attain to BY FAITH in Christs redemptive work on Calvary. Another point to mention, is that we are Not saved from our past, present, and future sins, as falsely claimed by calvinists...
sorens70601 6 days ago
@sorens70601
Ah yes, you can proudly boast of your "wisdom" in "choosing" Christ over those who weren't as "smart" as you were.
You really need to let go of the pride . . .
Bill244888 6 days ago
...we are only saved from our "past sins" up until that moment, That is why we need an "advocate" (Jesus Christ) with the Father, as "sin nature" is still present even after we are "born again" (1.Jn.1 and 2) This proves teh fallacy of "un-conditional Eternal Security", (an Un-biblical Heresy, and Satanic Lie) that No scripture will uphold, (except for the "twisting" of scriptural passages that Calvinists are known for)
sorens70601 6 days ago
@sorens70601
So, how many times have you "been saved"?
Phil. 1:6
"And I am sure of this, that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."
It's a real shame that you can't take comfort in the promises of scripture.
When you draw your last breath, how will you truly know where you are going?
Bill244888 6 days ago
@sorens70601 Does our Advocate ever fail?
WCOFTheology 3 days ago
@sorens70601
It seems that everyone who can't surrender their pride and submit to God's sovereignty in the salvation of men needs a lesson in theology. Who did God choose? He chose "us" believers.
You claim Christ was chosen . . . from what group? For there to be a choice God must have had other alternatives. Who were they?
Bill244888 6 days ago
@Bill244888 ...I have been in ministry since 1963, show me some respect, as you come across as a real "arrogant Twitt". Now if you can find Isa. 42:1, and 43:10, go ahead and read it, and if you have "half a brain" then you go figure, and answer your own "dumb question"
sorens70601 6 days ago
@sorens70601
"I have been in ministry since 1963, show me some respect,"
I meant no disrespect, I have legitimate questions about your twisted theology.
By the way - time in the ministry doesn't give you an automatic pass on being held accountable for the truth. You might want to consider the description of the Bereans, or Paul's charge to the Galations in chapter 1.
Bill244888 4 days ago
@Bill244888 ...Your superficial humility is pathetic. You have No "Legitimate questions". Only an arguementative and deceptive Spirit. Your knowledge of scripture does not even measure up to my "ankles" , and you have the audacity to call what I have presented to you "twisted theology". Calvinism IS Twisted theology en mass !!!
I just discovered minutes ago, that "JackMwolf" has already soundly Trounced your stupid Logic and Twisted theology on the "Calvinism expose and refuted". Deceiver !!
sorens70601 4 days ago
@sorens70601
WOW, I sure hope I can measure up to your ankles someday!
Just curious, what bible translation do you "preach" from?
I just really feel led to share this with you . . .
Rom. 12:3
"For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned."
Bill244888 3 days ago
@sorens70601
Oh, so you and old Jack the "Wolf" are in agreement on "theology"?
That's all I needed to hear. I don't care is you've been in ministry since 1863, you have a severe discernment deficiency.
Do you also agree with him that those who have never heard the gospel can earn salvation by keeping their own internal law?
Bill244888 3 days ago
@sorens70601
"You have No "Legitimate questions".
Actually, I do.
If Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world, meaning every single person ever in existence, then on what basis does God condemn so many to hell?
Bill244888 3 days ago
@sorens70601
"You have No "Legitimate questions".
Actually, I do.
If a man's salvation is never secure in Christ, then on what basis could John make this statement . . .
"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may KNOW that you have eternal life."
1 John 5:13
Bill244888 3 days ago
@sorens70601
"You have No "Legitimate questions".
Actually, I do.
If the doctrine of election is not true, then should I remove Acts 13:48 from my bible?
Bill244888 3 days ago
@Bill244888 ... I don't care for your stupid arrogance, but I shall answer you about Acts. 13:48. First of all like all "Brainwashed' Calvinists, you try to build your (lack of) eschatology, on one verse. Next; you demonstrate that you have No linguistic skills in Koine Greek, (so I am not going to explain "the passive voice or as in this case the "middle voice" intended in this text, as found in the Greek) If you read that passage in context from verse 46, that the Greek word "tasso",...
sorens70601 3 days ago
...meaning "appointed", simply means that God has 'appointed ' and provided eternal life "for all" who will believe. (Jn.3:15-20,Rom.1:16, 10:9-10, 1.Tim.2:4, 2.Pet.3:9, Rev.22:17, any questions ? ) It could Never mean in the light of these passages (Ezek.18:23,32, 31:1, 2:Pet.3:9, 1:Tim.2:4, Act.2:21, Rom.10:13, Jn.3:16-21) that by God's predetermined decree, certain ones are to be "saved" and others "lost".Predestination is never that of individual conformity of the will to salvation
sorens70601 3 days ago
...without man's choice, but rather that God has predestined a plan that all who conform will be saved, and all who do not, will be damned. It is the Plan, not the act of teh will, that is "predestined". The Jews who rebelled here in verse 46, failed to meet the terms of being "appointed" to etarnal life, while the believing Jews and Gentiles who gladly accepted the terms of the Gospel, were "appointed",(Gr."tasso") to the blessings promised All who will believe I am done reponding to you !
sorens70601 3 days ago
@sorens70601
Oh please indulge me with one more question . . .
If Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world, meaning every single person ever in existence, then on what basis does God condemn so many to hell?
Bill244888 3 days ago
@sorens70601
So, what was that caused you to respond to the gospel and another not?
Bill244888 3 days ago
@sorens70601
MY arrogance????
Bill244888 3 days ago
@sorens70601
"You have No "Legitimate questions".
Actually, I do.
If man can resist God's grace, then how do you explain Paul's conversion?
Bill244888 3 days ago
@Bill244888 Also if a man could resist grace then by definition it would not be grace, we would need to call it something else.
God bless
WCOFTheology 3 days ago
@sorens70601 "Your knowledge of scripture does not even measure up to my "ankles"
WOW see you are still arrogant! LOL
Also, Wolf-in sheepskin-Jack couldn't think his way out of a paper bag!
WCOFTheology 3 days ago
@sorens70601
I wont even bother to comment on the inadequacy of your post because your final statement:
"Calvinism turns everything upside down, trying to put the emphasis on Us"
Is just so completely ludicrous, so completely ignorant that it doesn't merely turn Reformed Theology on its head, it reveals that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Any pretence at credibility you might like to think you had just went sailing out the window. Completely ridiculous.
Keruaran 5 days ago
skalapunk...Your deceptive promotion of calvinism,(actually "Aurelius Augustinian-ism") is biblically unfounded. All the sriptures you present are typical "twisted" out of context passages based on your "reading into them" the idea of calvinism. That is because you calvinist have a "form of Godliness" but you deny the power thereof. Your premise is "skewed" and "tilted", because you do not understand teh scriptures. I am a missionary/Bible prophecy teacher, and if you will care to listen,...
sorens70601 1 week ago
@sorens70601 If you could please email me with the proper context of all of those Bible verses, to straighten me up, I would appreciate it.
skalapunk 1 week ago
@skalapunk ...I just scecked my e-mails and saw your comment. I shall respond to you later tonight, as I have certain other commitments right now.
sorens70601 1 week ago
@skalapunk ....Several of the passages you posted in your video, are Not relevant to the discussion, but here is your error, (as I do not have time for a long 'drawn out discussion') it really is not that difficult to understant, if you will just try to "take off" you calvinist "glasses", and read what i allready gave you, (Isa.42:1, 43:10) Christ is the "Chosen", , and "predestination" concerns "Gods PLAN of SALVATION", known as the "Gospel of the Kingdom". All of this hinges on "hearing"...
sorens70601 6 days ago
...the "Word of truth", ( the gospel of Jesus Christ, not the FALSE gospel of Calvin and "reformed theology") and "Believing" the gospel, and being born by "water and by the Spirit". (Not water baptism, but the "washing of the water of the word", and the "sanctification by the Spirit",(this last part, which Calvinists deny) Only then are we "In Him",(Christ) and since He is the "Chosen" the "Elect", we by faith of OUR belief and FAITH in the work on Calvary, BECOME at THAT POINT IN TIME ...
sorens70601 6 days ago
@sorens70601
"Christ is the "Chosen"
From among whom? Who were the others God could have "chosen" to carryout the mission of saving His elect?
Bill244888 6 days ago
@sorens70601 Then why is the grammatical object of the word "chosen" people, not a plan. Seems that someone is wrong and it isn't the Bible. The Bible says "he chose us before the foundation of the world", not "he chose a plan." It says "he predestined us", not "he predestined a plan"
skalapunk 4 days ago
@skalapunk ...If you read 1.Cor.2:6-8, and 10-14, you will discover that there are Two different Premises, for understanding God's Word. Those of us that are "called to be teachers" in the word, teach it according to "spiritual wisdom" that God gives, "comparing spirittual things with spiritual". ( I dont' expect you as a Calvinist to really understand this) The other "premise" is the "wisdom of the World" which it is clear that you all are "trying" to apply ! (how be it, if as you all have ...
sorens70601 3 days ago
...demonstrated ) you all do not understand Greek, your groping around in modern fraudulent Bible lexicons, that come from the "Egyptian papyrii" source, which was contaminated by Eusebius, Wescott/Hort et al, then you all will not find the Truth, only "grammatical confusion". Now to your question; As already pointed out, with scripture reference (Isa.42 and 43) Christ is the "Chosen" and the "Elect". God's "Plan of Salvation" was what was "predestined". When we by FAITH acccept God's ...
sorens70601 3 days ago
..."predestined plan of Salvation", and become "born again", we automatically become "In Christ", and as such partake of the being "chosen" and "Elect". What part of this don't you understand ????
sorens70601 3 days ago
A question for Calvinists: Demas in the bible was never saved in the first place? If not, how about Judas? He was never saved? How then did Judas heal the sick, perform miracles and cast out devils, when Jesus said Satan cannot cast out Satan
hemet92544 1 week ago
@hemet92544
"how about Judas? He was never saved? How then did Judas heal the sick, perform miracles and cast out devils, when Jesus said Satan cannot cast out Satan"
Mark 14:21
"For the Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”
According to Jesus it doesn't sound like he was welcomed into heaven to me.
The disciples were given this power by Christ, not Satan
Bill244888 1 week ago
@Bill244888 explain please how Judas was able to cast out devils, yet Jesus said Satan can't cast out Satan......you are claiming Satan was casting out Satan, as you are saying Judas never was saved, but being used by the Lord from the start. or is it you mean, devils are not Satan? but still, if Judas was casting out devils, that's the same, no?
hemet92544 1 week ago
@hemet92544
Judas was not Satan. If you would read Luke 22:3 you would see that there was a point in time when Satan entered Judas, but this was AFTER the disciples returned from being sent out by Christ.
Gad can and does used unsaved to accomplish His will . . . Pharaoh comes to mind
Was Judas saved? If so, based on what text?
Bill244888 1 week ago
@Bill244888 Uh, that's God not "Gad" sorry
Bill244888 1 week ago
@Bill244888 Matt10:1-15, Judas cast out demons, healed sick, raised dead.....when Jesus said Satan cannot cast out Satan he did not mean Satan cannot cast out only Satan, but that demons cannot cast out other demons, no? or? yes Jesus said he knew Judas from the start, but this is where it gets confusing
hemet92544 6 days ago
@hemet92544
The earlier reference I mentioned in Luke 22:3 mentions a point in time (after the disciple returned from healing, casting out demons, etc.) when Satan entered Judas.
There is no reference that I know of that states that Judas was an incarnate demon from birth.
Bill244888 6 days ago
@Bill244888 said no Judas was an incarnate demon from birth....Genesis 3:15 and thou shalt bruise his heel....Psalm 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend,eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me …John 13:18 I know whom I have chosen: that scripture be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me... Matthew 26:50 And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus and took him......"that is? or am i wrong?"
hemet92544 5 days ago
@Bill244888 ...I decided to respond one more time to your question to "@hemet92544", simply to reveal your "utter ignorance" about the scriptures, in your question,quote; "Was Judas Saved? If so, based on what text " ? Acts 1:17 says; "For He was 'numbered' with Us, and had,(past tense) 'obtained' part of this ministry". Such would not have been possible, if Judas was not "saved". (as in
"born again" by the "washing of the water of the word", and sanctification by the Spirit", something..
sorens70601 3 days ago
...you Calvinist Cultists cannot understand or recognize) Acts.1:20 claims that Judas had a "bishoprick",(that is a spiritual position in the "New Covenant Gospel" of Christ's ministry, (as referring to the Church, which began in the river Jordan, under John the Baptists ministry, Lk.16:16. but I suppose your "ignorant" mind will not allow you to understand this either) The 'bishoprick' that Judas "had obtained"
(because he was saved) is spoken of in Ps.109:8, as "his Office",(to be taken..
sorens70601 3 days ago
...away, and given to another) In fact Ps. 109:1-15 deals with Judas, as well as Ps.41:9 and Ps.69:25-28. (maybe you should get "caught up" on some reading of the scriptures Bubba, and be sure to use the KJV) For scriptures on 'Bishops' ,try
Acts.20:28, Phil.1:1, 1.Tim.3:2, Tit.1:1, 1.Pet.2:35. Acts 1:25, concludes with the fact that Judas, "by transgression Fell", (that means "Backslid", a biblical term) He "fell from Grace" by own self will.So much for your stupid "eternal security")..
sorens70601 3 days ago
...Now crawl under your rock, and stop responding to me, arrogant Moron !!!!
sorens70601 3 days ago
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"...Now crawl under your rock, and stop responding to me, arrogant Moron !!!!"
@sorens70601
Gal. 5:22-23
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law."
Bill244888 2 days ago
@sorens70601
"So much for your stupid "eternal security").."
John 6:37-39
"All that the Father gives Me WILL come to me, and whoever comes to Me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING of all that He has given Me, but raise it up on the last day."
So, Christ fails to carry out His Father's will?
Bill244888 2 days ago
@sorens70601
"So much for your stupid "eternal security").."
Are you even saved?
If so, how do you know?
Bill244888 2 days ago
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@sorens70601
"So much for your stupid "eternal security").."
If a man's salvation is never secure in Christ, then on what basis could John make this statement . . .
"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may KNOW that you have eternal life."
1 John 5:13
Bill244888 2 days ago
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A Question Calvinist can't clearly directly answer, children that are beaten, some raped and even murdered, God preordained this before their birth is what a true Predestined Elected Calvinist believes, but will not admit it. examples are JonBenét Ramsey, Dennis Rader and John Wayne Gacy, Jr. who molested and killed 33 teenage boys. Since we live in the New Testament now, thus sins are not passed down through parents, what possible answer is valid from a Calvinist? None
hemet92544 1 week ago
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A Question Calvinist can't clearly directly answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet? probably not... . wait, another clue, chances are highly likely you are a white male, correct?....get it yet? still probably not. You might reply with, “so what does color of skin have to do with anything?”.....see, point made, you can't answer clearly
hemet92544 1 week ago
@tgillspy2 This user is blocked for making assertions with no evidence or proof.
skalapunk 1 week ago
@tgillspy2
Your assessment is based upon what scripture?
Bill244888 1 week ago
@Bill244888 Go read 2 peter 3 KJV
tgillspy2 1 week ago
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@tgillspy2
"Go read 2 peter 3 KJV"
What's your point?
Oh wait, let me guess. You're referring to 2 Pet. 3:9, right?
Who is Peter speaking to in 2 Peter chapter 3? The beloved (i.e. fellow believers).
Verse 9 says God is patient towards whom? You, the same people he is speaking to at the beginning of the chapter. God is patient towards His elect until their number is completed.
Next false claim . . .
Bill244888 1 week ago
@tgillspy2
You're doing the very thing this video accuses you of. You take one verse out of context and ignore the mountain of scriptural evidence against what your "tradition" has taught you.
Bill244888 1 week ago
@tgillspy2 Yes - you are right.
anniemaggie53 1 week ago
@anniemaggie53 This user is blocked for making assertions with no evidence or proof.
skalapunk 1 week ago
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John 17:6-19
"I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.(JESUS ONLY PRAYS FOR THE ONES GIVEN TO HIM BY THE FATHER) I pray for them I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. All I have is yours, and all you have is mine.
MrSlippin22 1 week ago
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This is so sad : ( I pray the Lord will open the eyes of those who think their salvation lies in their own hands... Are you more powerful than God, by no means? Does the Lord not have control over His creation, dos the Lord not plan you life according to His will; so how then does He not plan your Salvation..When you meet your maker what are you going to say to Him? Do you know the fastest way to Hell is Heaven? I pray the Lord would reveal His will to you all!!
rocbrett1 1 week ago
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rocbrett1 1 week ago
correction, anyone notice all these dudes are white males?
hemet92544 2 weeks ago
@hemet92544
Does their skin pigment have some strange affect on their teachings?
Bill244888 1 week ago
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@Bill244888 ah, but rather, Does their skin pigment have some strange affect on "you're" teachings?
hemet92544 1 week ago
anyone notice all these dead dudes are white males?
hemet92544 2 weeks ago
It seems your basic point is that Arminians take verses out of context, and ignore other verses. But then again, so do Calvinists - so does everyone. The most obvious example for Calvinists is Rom. 9.13 being taken out of context. Everyone ignores the literal meaning of certain verses - sometimes in a way to completely twist the meaning of a text.
Also, yes, Arminians misrepresent Calvin, but Calvinists do the same to Arminian theology, as your video demonstrates.
neoclassicism1 2 weeks ago
@neoclassicism1 True. I made this video a long time ago when I was new to this debate. I apologize for any strawmen. I left the video up simply becauseit shows a lot of the arguments I've heard non-Calvinists make over the years.
skalapunk 1 week ago
@skalapunk Thank you for your honesty; it makes such a refreshing change from much of the self-righteousness exhibited by many on Youtube. Once again, many thanks, and may God bless you.
neoclassicism1 1 week ago
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reformedanthony30075 1 week ago
If we are to choose if we are saved by Gods grace, then we deserve some of the glory. God is in control of EVERYTHING including our salvation. My brother isn't a christian. I don't want to pray to a God that has his hands tide behind his back and has no controle over my brothers salvation. God has full controle over my brothers salvation. We are all sinners deserving of hell, but we can be saved through Gods grace. Not our own.
3BALL4 3 weeks ago
@3BALL4
AMEN!
Bill244888 3 weeks ago
One must be delusional to believe in God. Your arguments are moot and pointless. All glory to the Motherland.
JustPetrov 1 month ago
@JustPetrov
Rom. 1:18-20
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse."
Bill244888 3 weeks ago
@Bill244888 What does this prove? These words were written by someone who believed in superstitions and fairy tales. This proves nothing. The existence of God is speculative at best. Religion is archaic and has run its course. It's time to accept logic, not live life by self-enslaving, self-debasing beliefs.
JustPetrov 3 weeks ago
@JustPetrov Seems logical that everything created itself out of nothing. Yep.
skalapunk 3 weeks ago
@skalapunk I have already apologized for my comments, therefore I have no intentions of arguing with you.
JustPetrov 3 weeks ago
@skalapunk So God created us? Who created God then? Bing Bang Theory is probably not true but it´s a good approach and it seems alot more logical than what the Bibel says. Believe in whatever you want, but don´t argue with logic, when you´re talking about religion pls
Spooman11 3 weeks ago
@Spooman11
Logic?
The entire cosmos came into existence from one explosion? And the matter that supposedly exploded came from where? What initiated the explosion since nothing existed?
Believing that nothing, without an outside cause became something is more logical than believing the bible's account of creation? So this is what passes for logic these days?
Man, our education system is worse than I thought.
Bill244888 2 weeks ago
@Bill244888 vacuum fluctuations, anthropic principle, multiverse, Casimir experiment.... ever heard of these things? it has been proved already that out of vacuum, energy/matter can spontaneously come up. and yes that is a lot more logical than saying our world is a few thousand years old, even though we have already found objects on this earth that are older than the bible´s date of creation. Education you´re talking about? how about Witches or the world being a plate you still believe in that?
Spooman11 2 weeks ago
@Spooman11
Your god is science. Science is based upon proven repeatable events. Can you demonstrate how matter self creates from nothing?
Bill244888 2 weeks ago
@Bill244888 since when is science a religion? I never said that. And no I can´t demonstrate it because it´s to expensive for me but science can demonstrate it for you, take a look at the casimir experiment. Or even CERN, it could be possible that they´ll create a mini universe inside ours with that machine they got, we don´t know but at least sciences trys to figure it out and doesn´t just say; God is eternal. so believe in whatever you want but dont tell me anything about logic/education
Spooman11 2 weeks ago
@Spooman11
It's what you've chosen to believe and place your faith in, no?
The funniest things is all of these "theories" you've mentioned are rooted in the structured and ordered laws of physics. Doesn't that ever lead you to wonder if there was a structurer?
Bill244888 2 weeks ago
@Bill244888 religion and science are completely different, the meaning of science is to prove and understand. The meaning of religion to put your faith into something. It doesn´t want to prove anything, actually if it was a fact that the christian God existed I don´t think you could call christianity a religion anymore, it´s about believing, you can´t just lump them together. btw. I never ruled out the possibilty of a creator, just don´t believe in a personified God like the christians/muslims
Spooman11 2 weeks ago
@Spooman11
Science is a valued by both the Christian and the atheist, but for very different reasons. The atheist observes the world around him and presumes that man is the pinnacle of all knowledge and understanding. The Christian observes the world around him and sees the order and structure of it all and is humbled and in awe of God's wisdom and power.
Bill244888 2 weeks ago
@Bill244888 Man believe whatever the fuck you want, but bear in mind that you´re not observing or seeing, you are believing.
Spooman11 2 weeks ago
@Spooman11 Some Christians believe that God created a mature planet. After all, he didn't plant seeds, he created trees. A fully grown mature garden. He didn't create a fetus, he created a fully grown man. He didn't create a flat landscape hoping for terrain to form, he created mountains and valleys.
In other words the idea that the world is physically young yet shows an older age is a possibility. So that science shows an older age for earth in no way debunks the creation account.
skalapunk 1 week ago
@skalapunk I was talking about Dinosaurs and Neanderthals and other archaeological findings that proof the world is older than the Bible´s proposed creation date, or do you really think God buried dead Dinosaurs under the earth?
Spooman11 1 week ago
@Spooman11 There's also archeological findings that support the idea of a younger earth.
It's the limiting factors that override everything.
skalapunk 1 week ago
@skalapunk which archeological findings are you talking about?
Spooman11 1 week ago
@skalapunk God didn't try to fool anyone,He made the plants before the sun, how long would flora last without sunshine?He tells us He made everything fully formed and functioning,so if someone today could go back to the 6th day, everything would look likes it's been there a long time,Really,God stressed the fact that it was 6 actual days in a few places,of course we can't say that there weren't a few people who were not of much importance,left out of the genealogy,but not millions of people.
CBALLEN 1 week ago
@Bill244888 The difference is quantum physics, is complex and we don´t quite get it yet, but Christianity has already been proved wrong on soooo many aspects; earth center of the universe, planets and stars supposed to be in our atmosphere, Witches, World being a plate, Adam and Eve.... dude I could go on and on and on. Believe whatever you want, but don´t tell me anything about education or logic
Spooman11 2 weeks ago
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@Spooman11
"Christianity has already been proved wrong on soooo many aspects; earth center of the universe, planets and stars supposed to be in our atmosphere, Witches, World being a plate, Adam and Eve"
Earth center of the universe . . not taught in the bible
Planets and stars supposed to be in our atmosphere . . . not taught in the bible
Witches . . . ???
World being a plate . . . not taught in the bible
Adam and Eve . . . ???
Any other excuses?
Bill244888 2 weeks ago
@Spooman11
God is eternal. Something that is eternal never came into existence, because it just is, always has been, always will be in a state of existence.
iamTOTALLYredeemed 2 weeks ago
@iamTOTALLYredeemed feel free to believe in whatever you want.
Spooman11 2 weeks ago
@Bill244888 I apologize for my words. I realize your faith is important to you and I have no right to criticize it or you. I do not wish for an argument. Long live Russia!
JustPetrov 3 weeks ago
LOL VERY GOOD skalapunk!
Reformer64 1 month ago
@willpower242 You're now blocked for making baseless assertions like this. Why waste your time making such logical fallacies?
skalapunk 1 month ago
BTW, God predestined the CHURCH not individuals........you can join the Church thru faith ......or not,........ but there will be a Church God predestined it!!
willpower242 1 month ago
@willpower242 Why would any reader assume that the verses speaking of predestination were for a faceless, nameless group, not the individuals that make up the group? Seems like wishful thinking.
skalapunk 1 month ago
willpower God predestined many people before the foundation of the world to have their sins forgiven and all their wrath poured out on His Son. Jesus had to take all their wrath,for every sin, Jesus took the wrath for these predestined people alone, Jesus did not take the sins away or the wrath away for the goats because God has much wrath left to pour out on them.Since God has wrath left to pour out on the wicked,that means Jesus never died for all men,head for head or there's be no wrath left.
CBALLEN 1 month ago
Please take Jesus and Paul out of those who preach Calvinism! Thanks!!
willpower242 1 month ago
@willpower242 Why, when they do?
skalapunk 1 month ago
@skalapunk only thing Jesus preached was Judaism - Christianity has very little to do with Jesus. He wouldn't even recognise the church today - Catholic, Protestant, non - conformist - they are all the same - despite the doctrinal arguments. None of them has much to say about Jesus anyway - it's all Paul - usually taken out of context. Attributing the ideas of man to God is not respectful to God. Can you imagine what Jesus might have said to those Arguing about Calvin and Arminius?
anniemaggie53 1 week ago
@anniemaggie53 Man, read your Bible more, lol.
skalapunk 1 week ago
@skalapunk It's part of my job to read it. Try getting a proper degree in biblical studies from a proper university instead of from a fundamentalist bible college, and then you will understand.
anniemaggie53 1 week ago
@anniemaggie53 I dont have a degree in any sort of biblical studies. But thanks for the advice. (dozens of the greatest theologians in church history who are fluent in Greek disagree with you by the way, not just little ole country bumpkin me)
skalapunk 1 week ago
@skalapunk I am a country bumpkin too - brought up on a remote farm. But In England you never live more than 60 miles from a major university city. Yes, you are correct about the theologians - I think it's all down to how you view the bible - and we are NEVER going to agree on that! But a good discussion is great brain exercise. Take care.
anniemaggie53 1 week ago
@willpower242 WOW, that's a lot of scripture that we would have to remove.....
Reformer64 1 month ago
okay...
Option 1: Ignore, edit and change the meaning of God's holy, infallible word
Option 2: Lie, openly and offensively about another brother in Christ
Option 3: see Option 1
Option 4: see Option 1
Option 5: Why get angry at another Christian? You've got to spend eternity with them!
Option 6: see Option 1
This is a spoof isn't it? Kinda worried if it isn't...
petecharlton91 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If a parent sees a child run out into the middle of a highway will a loving parent "let him choose" or will the parent "impose his will on the child to save him". Think about it...
lowbattery34 1 month ago
This video is very funny, despite how desperate and confused its representation of historic, James Arminius-classical Arminianism really is!
Brightstar27 1 month ago
@skalapunk "The difference between me and JW's is my verses are in context."
No, the difference between you and them is WHO's teachings you follow-- They are disciples of Charles Taze Russell, YOU are a disciple of Augustine & Calvin.
Isaiah1v18 2 months ago
@Isaiah1v18 Actually since I've never read the writings of either Calvin or Augustine, that is impossible.
skalapunk 2 months ago
@skalapunk " So if I use the Bible to demosntrate my beliefs, I'm wrong? Gotcha."
Wow listen to yourself-- how many denominations do we have out there? Don't they all "use the Bible to demonstrate" their beliefs? According to you, they CAN'T be wrong. "Gotcha". Your highly-inflated ego is clouding your ability to think rationally.
Isaiah1v18 2 months ago
@Isaiah1v18 Why do you magically escape the charges you're lobbing at me?
skalapunk 2 months ago
possibly could do with looking up what 'heresy' actually means. Do you really think Paul & Jesus (on your list of 'they are preaching the heresy of sovereign grace') are preaching heresy?? Awkward.
wackygrillachristian 2 months ago
@wackygrillachristian It's sarcasm bro. Jesus DID teach the doctrines of grace which is why the doctrines of grace are true and Biblical.
skalapunk 2 months ago
@skalapunk I probably should have watched the whole video - it makes more sense now ;-)
wackygrillachristian 2 months ago
@wackygrillachristian NP :D
skalapunk 2 months ago
@skalapunk "The doctrines that are contained within the nickname "calvinism" existed in church history and theological thinking long before John Calvin was ever born. See what i mean?"
Wrong. Any signs of "calvinism" date back to the converted Manachanean Augustine, 400 Years after the Scriptures were written and Stoic, philosophical beliefs.
Its totally unbiblical. See what I mean?
Isaiah1v18 2 months ago
@Isaiah1v18 Funny cuz when someone asks me to show why I believe what i believe, I bust out my Bible and show them certain passages. I don't bust out anything from augustine or anyone else.
The bible alone is sufficient and it stands alone with no reference to calvin or augustine or anyone else. There goes your argument. Next?
skalapunk 2 months ago
@skalapunk "I don't bust out anything from augustine or anyone else."
Of course not, why would you? You would expose yourself... But you do "bust out" their theological beliefs by using proof-texts like
Jehovas Witness who love to quote Jesus saying "The Father is greater than I" into declaring that he is a lesser "god"...
You're not fooling anyone with your over-inflated ego.
Isaiah1v18 2 months ago
@Isaiah1v18 So if I use the Bible to demosntrate my beliefs, I'm wrong? Gotcha.
skalapunk 2 months ago
@Isaiah1v18 The difference between me and JW's is my verses are in context. Next argument? You can always tell someone is grasping at straws when they resort to personal attacks and ad hominems and other logical fallacies.
Sorry isaiah, 2000 years of church history won't be trumped by your youtube argumentation.
skalapunk 2 months ago
v18 No, it doesn't. Again, all you have is assertions."
Really? Acknowledge what I've written & prove it.
Deut.30:11 "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. Deut. 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you LIFE & DEATH, the blessing and the curse. So CHOOSE life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, Paul confirms the subject is FAITH regarding this commandment in Rom.10
Isaiah1v18 2 months ago
@skalapunk Your calvinism is wrong, it makes God one of Partiality & easily refuted. Deut.30:11 "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
Deut. 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you LIFE & DEATH, the blessing and the curse. So CHOOSE life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
Paul confirms the subject is FAITH regarding this commandment in Rom.10
Isaiah1v18 2 months ago
@Isaiah1v18 No, it doesn't. Again, all you have is assertions. You haven't actually provided evidence for the claim that God is one of partiality. Remember, Calvinist believe in UNCONDITIONAL eleciton. Meaning there are no conditions found in men that attracts God's attention towards them. But rather, it is your own view that has God being attracted to certain ones over others because of the way those men act. That means YOUR God is showing partiality. Your argument backfires against yo.
skalapunk 2 months ago
@skalapunk Calvinists believe God saves men out of undeserved grace and mercy not because certain men are just smarter or more spiritual than other men (thus rewarding them for their attributes). That's your god not mine
skalapunk 2 months ago
@skalapunk "everything I believe is from the Bible. Why do you hate what the Bible teaches? What Jesus and Paul so clearly teached?"
Are you a Mormon? I had them tell me the same thing. Are you a Jehovas Witness? They also said the same--
CALVIN was wrong, he was no scholar, he was also a unrepentant MURDERER-- but I'm sure you'll find a way to justify his sins. Good luck with that,
Why do you hate God? I used to be like you at one time, until after much prayer, the Lord opened my eyes
Isaiah1v18 2 months ago
@Isaiah1v18 Your ignorant mistake is assuming Calvinism has anything to do with John Calvin. Why don't you learn a little bit about something before you start romping around like a bull in a china shop? It's always the people who know the least about a subject that think they know the most.
skalapunk 2 months ago
@skalapunk
So Calvinism has NOTHING to do with John Calvin? Please enlighten us.
Isaiah1v18 2 months ago
@Isaiah1v18 The doctrines that are contained within the nickname "calvinism" existed in church history and theological thinking long before John Calvin was ever born. See what i mean?
skalapunk 2 months ago
Bro, what i believe is what Christians have always believed for 2000 years. You're "freewill decisio- ism cooperate with Jesus cuz Jesus can't save me by himself" theology is is not only brand new in the context of church history, but it is unbiblical, it paints Jesus as a begger rather than king, and it robs God's glory. The fact that ALL of the historical church creeds, counsels, and confessions of faith align with what I believe, and not what you believe, is the elephant in the room here
skalapunk 2 months ago
@skalapunk the above post was directed at "isaiah1v18"
skalapunk 2 months ago
@droptozro skalapunk isn't interested in TRUTH. He's only interested in using his "5-Points" as a Rosetta Stone into deciphiring the Scriptures. He's a lost-cause. You're wasting your time.
Isaiah1v18 2 months ago
@Isaiah1v18 Bro, everything I believe is from the Bible. Why do you hate what the Bible teaches? What Jesus and Paul so clearly teached?
skalapunk 2 months ago
@Isaiah1v18 This is true
MrJohnBenko 2 months ago
Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
TheJCFan 2 months ago
Luke 13:34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! "
Apparently Jesus Christ believed in free will.
TheJCFan 2 months ago
@TheJCFan Notice Kueker will never attempt to respond to such a sound argument on the merits. He knows he can't
Deepertruthblog 2 months ago
hey, skalapunk, it's been awhile since we've talked. just wanted to drop you a line and encourage you to keep up the good work. this video cracks me up every time
zkueker88 2 months ago
Arminian, freewill works mongers do not need clearer exposition to have ears that can hear and eyes that can see they need a new birth only God can give. Fight the good fight of faith. Let any man who comes with any other gospel than The Gosepel be accursed!
Gimplett 2 months ago
@Gimplett empty, meaningless rhetoric
Deepertruthblog 2 months ago
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Its interesting...people dont think a loving God could elect or choose...yet Ephesians says "IN LOVE HE PREDESTINED US"...Armenians...use your head and read the Word. That is all.
lowbattery34 3 months ago
@lowbattery34
Calvinists! Use your head... that's about your method of Salvation, Christ---HE was predestined, not you.
I'm not an Arminian either.. just read context, it's very clear that's about the Jews who were given all those things. The Jews were those who first trusted in Christ(v. 12). I can give multiple other references if you'd like--but its clear from Acts 19 who Paul taught first, disciples of John being Jews--they were elders in the church. Paul always wrote/spoke to Jew first
droptozro 2 months ago
@droptozro Sorry bro, the Bible says in Eph 1 "He chose US in him before the foundation of the world" it doesn't say "he chose Christ before the foundation of the world"
God chose people to be saved. That's what the bible teaches. If God hadn't done this nobody would be saved because all men by fallen nature are hostile to God andfind the gospel foolish. Without election/predestination, heaven would be empty.
skalapunk 2 months ago
@skalapunk
"He chose US in Him.." is the Jewish people--they were chosen before the foundation of the world(see Romans 9 and Romans 11:1-8).
See verses 3-12 are about the Jews(and their past with God), verse 13-14 are about the Gentiles. See clearly that verses 3-12 says "us, our" over and over... then at verse 13 it changes to "you, our" See the context brother. God didn't choose individuals for salvation, I can prove to you exactly what I said above with multiple Scripture references.
droptozro 2 months ago
@droptozro Bro Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles, not the Jews. In Ephesians, he is writing to the church at Ephesus. The church at ephesus was established by Paul himself. It is pure assertion on your part, so far. Not convincing.
skalapunk 2 months ago
@skalapunk
"In Ephesians, he is writing to the church at Ephesus" It's not pure assertion, I told you I can give you multiple Scripture references. Start with Acts 19, Disciples of John would have been Jews. So Paul's original disciples and more than likely elders were Jews. "We,us" Paul is a Jew--switches to "you, our" at verse 13-14, very clear switch. Next, notice clearly in Acts(and all else) Paul always went to the Jewish synagogues first, if rejected then Gentiles.
droptozro 2 months ago
@droptozro There's no exegetical argument you can make from the text of Ephesians itself to support your ideas. Thus, you have literally, no case. At all. Wishful thinking.
skalapunk 2 months ago
@skalapunk
"wishful thinking"--you're just drawing up unbiblical means of interpretation to hold onto your position. I gave you plenty of Scripture interpreting Scripture and you're rejecting it brother. Take a look at the evidence, it's airtight--it's not about you or I, but Jews in the past and Paul's describing all the things they were given. If you're really after the TRUTH, you'll search it out and see if what I present matches or not. God bless
droptozro 2 months ago
@droptozro Do you not understand what I mean by an exegetical argument? I will say it again, you cannot make an exegetical argument from the text of Ephesians to bolster any of your claims. You are just asserting it and assuming everyone will agree with you. When Paul says he chose us in Him, he's talking about believers. All believers are adopted as God's sons.
skalapunk 2 months ago
@skalapunk
"You are just asserting it and assuming everyone will agree with you. When Paul says..."
You're doing the same, except you have no Scripture to back it up? So who is asserting?
Who were those to first trust in Christ then? Answer that question for yourself?
If we cannot interpret Scripture with Scripture, better not use the synoptic Gospels to find more information, and we cannot interpret prophecy with later/older revelation. Your "exegesis" destroys Biblical understanding
droptozro 2 months ago
@skalapunk "chose US in Him ...foundation of the world" Deut 4:37, Deut 7:6, Isa 41:8-11, Psalm 33:12, Rom 11:1-7 Jews
Eph 1:5, "adoption" Rom 9:3-4, Rom 8:15, Gal 4:5, Jews
Eph 1:9 "mystery of His will" see Eph 3:5-7 this was revealed to the Jews, they didn't see it though.
Eph 1:11 "predestined..inheritance.. His will" Christ was the method predestined, He is the way to inheritance(see Gal 3 and Gal 4), not individuals to salvation. 1 Peter 1:20
Eph 1:12 "first trusted" Rom 1:16, Rom 2:9-10
droptozro 2 months ago
"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
"Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily."
Paul also warned against falling away from the faith multiple times. Something Calvinists do not believe in because of "Perserverance of the Saints".
TheJCFan 3 months ago
@TheJCFan Bro, Paul warned against it. He didn't say it could actually happen.Did you ever stop to realize that the warnings and imperatives in the Bible are exactly the tool, the means God uses to keep his own children so that they do not ever truly and finally fall away? Again, you are arguing against something you know so little about. The people that know the least are the ones that think they know the most. Trust me, i was there once. in your shoes. I was against calvinism.
skalapunk 3 months ago
@skalapunk You do not warn your child not to go out into the street if theres no chance they can be hit by a car. And trust me, I once believed Calvinism to be true. It was the most miserable time of my Christian life. I lost my joy, my peace, my love and my desire to spread the gospel because it wasnt in my hands anyway. So much for Jude 1:22. Why should we love those that God hates and doesnt desire to save anyway? We cannot have a greater love than God. Sorry but Calvinism is a lie.
TheJCFan 3 months ago
@TheJCFan Do Calvinist know who is pre-destined? No! Therefore, we should spread the gospel and love them either way. If you were once a Calvinist, that should of been your most submissive and humble stages of your Christian walk. God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy on. If you do not understand the love of God, then you'll never understand predestination....
vicesquad08 2 months ago
@TheJCFan Then clearly you didn't understand Calvinism. And stop with the assertions. It's arminianism that is a lie bro. It asserts that God tries and fails. It asserts that Jesus' blood was wasted. It asserts that God has no idea who his Bride is but just gets lucky that certain people join the body. It's a spit in the face of God's sovereignty and glory.
skalapunk 2 months ago
"Again, you are arguing against something you know so little about." I find that insulting to say the least. You have no idea of my experience or knowledge in the scripture and you dare make a statement like that? I've noticed that a lot of Calvinists take the same position. They know more than the average Christian, which I believe to be the reason why they rarely escape the corruption they have backslidden into. Gods mercy upon you. Peace
TheJCFan 3 months ago
@TheJCFan No bro, I know more about Calvinism than you, not about Christianity than you. I dont mean that to sound insulting, but I've told you many times you argue against strawmen. DO you know what a strawman is? It isn't meant to be a personal attack on you. It's to say that the real thing is not the way you are describing it, thus when you attack it, you aren't attacking the real thing, but a misconception.
skalapunk 3 months ago